Breaking Masculine Stereotypes: Embracing Sensitivity

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But when you carry all of it,
you rob someone else the

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opportunity to be of service,
you push other people away, you

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create yourself in a vacuum that
I can do it, I can do it.

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And you train other people to
stop offering help.

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And then you feel like totally a
load and defeated, like you have

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no help.
And so I think it's sort of the

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self fulfilling prophecy that's
really ingrained in US.

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I found myself in that position
many times.

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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This is your host, author, coach
and healer, Andy Grant.

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Please visit theandygrant.com to
learn more about me.

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Riemann Feel has conversations
that most men are not having,

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but that all men and the women
who love them can benefit from.

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My guest today is Ben Curtis.
Ben is an award-winning actor,

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musician, speaker and coach
driven by a passion for guiding

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men toward thriving in all
aspects of life.

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He's the visionary Co founder
and CEO of Dude Nation, the

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global startup shaping the
future of men's Wellness.

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Today, Ben and I talk about
growing up as sensitive men and

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explore multiple myths of
masculinity.

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He shares what he sees as some
of the biggest challenges facing

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men today and what he wishes
more men knew.

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Let's do it.
Hello Ben, and welcome to Real

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Men Feel.
Hello, Andy, it's a pleasure to

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be here.
Good, I hope.

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I hope you feel that way at the
end.

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I hope so.
If it's any league, like our

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conversation before and any of
your episodes I've listened to,

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I think I'm going to feel even
better just being here in a safe

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space, right?
This is what it's all about,

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like making safe spaces for men
to feel and be real.

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And I really appreciate you and
who you are and and your

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audience listening.
I appreciate that.

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So you are the Co founder of the
Dude Nation.

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So let's start there.
What inspired you to create The

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Dude Nation?
Well, that's a great question.

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I felt like something I had to
do.

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You know the saying if you see
something, say something.

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It was like I saw something and
no one else was saying it, and

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it was to the point where, oh,
I'm the one who's supposed to

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lead that something.
But to rewind, I think what

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really did it is one actually
had a really awesome father, A

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lot of emotional intelligence,
encouraged me to feel my

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feelings.
Was the first one in his family

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to go to therapy.
Both my parents carried

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generations of trauma and
depression, a lot of suicide on

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both sides, a lot of mental
health issues.

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Both of them were the first ones
to interrupt that and growing up

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in the South when they did in
the early 1900s, It's I'm a

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miracle, you know, and I, I
think it's AI feel so blessed to

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have grown up in a home that was
so open minded in a place that

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was not.
My parents also travelled the

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world and they taught me to do
that.

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So I started seeing a
perspective other than my

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immediate environment and I saw
the hearts of other people.

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And I've always been a really
sensitive kid, really sensitive

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boy and wasn't always welcome in
school, But my mom nurtured

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that.
She saw it, she spoke to it.

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And even a woman some point in
high school said, you know,

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girls may not find the sexy
right now, but if you keep this

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up, eventually the right woman
will respect you for this.

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And I never forgot that.
And it really did feel like

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being sensitive felt like what
we used to say in the 80s, a

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handicap, like something in my
way.

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And it was like something that I
didn't that like made me

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different from everyone else.
And I slowly, thank God, I I

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became a professional actor.
I learned how to use it, but I

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started to see how my
sensitivity could be my

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superpower.
And it wasn't really till I got

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sober, I put down drugs and
alcohol.

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When I really started developing
a relationship with men and

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leading men's work, that's when
I saw I'd been a leader for a

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long time.
All the feelings I felt really

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needed to be dealt with with
other men.

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I'd done them with women and,
and that was great, but some of

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the stuff needed to go deeper.
And I, I started learning that

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only men could hold that.
I learned I didn't trust men,

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especially men that looked like
you, just anyone that presented

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as powerful or what we call
alpha.

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And but I felt safe, oddly
enough, with gay men.

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And what I learned is that it
took a lot to be gay when I grew

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up.
And my friends who had the

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courage to come out and be
themselves in that world, I was

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like, whoa, they are.
There's nothing but authenticity

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coming out of that person.
And then my father became one of

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the first openly gay ministers
in the South.

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It was very controversial.
And it was something that opened

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my eyes to that.
And I started to see him lead

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and then he started a support
group for men going through

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sexual abuse and I saw him lead
that.

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And then I saw my dad end a
relationship with my mom that

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wasn't working and lead in a new
life there.

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My parents get happier.
And then kind of Fast forward to

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I've I started getting in the
Wellness world.

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I got out of bartending and then
yoga and meditation and breath

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work.
And I've been teaching that

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stuff for about 15 years.
And all my clients started to be

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men.
And I realized that was my gift.

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Oh, they trust me.
And they're actually looking for

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more than just like some yoga.
Like, you know, there's clearly

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they're asking for coaching or
some therapy.

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So I got certified as a coach.
I looked into being a therapist.

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And my therapist was even like,
yeah, it seems like you really

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like being more active and, you
know, involved.

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And I met this coach, now dear
friend and mentor.

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Preston smiles.
And he was leading a coaching

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group, like, fell in my lap or
in my algorithms all over my

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face in the middle of the
pandemic.

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And I was like, OK, fine, dude,
I'm going to sign up for your

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work.
I've never paid you before, but

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I did.
And one of the greatest things

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out of that is that Preston
encouraged me to start my own

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men's group, and I did.
And so that was the lion's den.

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It was called.
My dad died while I started that

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and that was the only thing I
could show up for.

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And those men carried me.
And I realized I'd been leading

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sober men's retreats for a
decade.

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But I thought, why is this only
have to be for men who identify

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as Alcoholics or addicts or, you
know, going to that maybe

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extreme?
Is there something for all of

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us?
And I didn't see a whole lot of

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it.
I saw stuff for like, our dads

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saw stuff for kids.
But I was like, where's stuff

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for like us and these multi
generations from like 20 to 60

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or 70, like, you know, where's
that?

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Like how do we connect?
We're all told we're so

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different generationally.
So it was just like a whisper.

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And it started with the podcast.
My friend was like, my best

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friend was like, Ben, we got to
talk.

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I love your work, but the Lion's
Den is like one of the biggest

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sex superstores in the world.
So I think you should change

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your name, as much as I love
that you guys roar and all that.

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And I was like, I feel you, man.
I appreciate that.

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That's great feedback.
He's like Brandy 101, bro.

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I'm just like, real talk.
And I said that's why you're my

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best friend.
And I said, like, dude, you're

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getting well once.
And he's like, that's it.

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Nobody else has that.
You're the Dell, dude.

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And I'm like, but I'm past Dell.
He's like, yeah, but if you can

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tell your story of what happened
and how you've reclaimed that

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work now, I realized dude was a
source of shame for me.

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That word, I wanted nothing to
do with it and long story, long

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and to the point like that
really just was what there was

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to do and to have a conversation
about it.

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So if I was uncomfortable with I
could reclaim it and started as

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a conversation piece then became
the whole organization.

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And so dude was kind of there
all along.

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I founded this 10 years ago, but
I did.

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It's when I met Adam Lamb that
it kind of all synced together

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and he helped to get to the next
level.

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And now we've got leaders of all
kinds and growing organization,

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and we really look to be an
umbrella for for healthy

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masculinity for all generations.
Very cool.

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I want to back up to, to kind of
growing up sensitive 'cause my

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experience is very similar to
that.

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I, I was a emotional crying kid
and as an adult I realized I, I

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was empathic and that other
people's emotion coming through

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me and I would be bawling and
like thinking there's no reason

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for me to be crying.
Why?

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What is this?
And I just thought I was great

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and even my I've been married,
oh goodness, 26 years, 27 years

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now.
I've been married a long time

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and my wife was warned that when
she before she met me that anti

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sensitive and.
I can say my wife thought I was

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gay.
She was like, you're so, you're

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so there.
Like why does why is does a man

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being called sensitive still?
Well, to me it still feels like

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a put down, like it's an insult.
It is you, you said a handicap.

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So do you still feel it that
way?

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If like if I, if I, oh, there's
Ben, Hey, you're a really

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sensitive guy.
Does that?

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Does that, does that feel
supportive?

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Or is it feeling now?
I'd be like thank you man, yes I

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am.
Come off world.

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Look at this dude.
In fact, I mean, here's me,

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Andy.
I was wearing my like, Dude

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Nation shirt.
I was on the street corner of

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Rhinebeck where I live, my dad,
and it was the anniversary of

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his death.
I called my best friend Matt

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Johnson.
He lives across the street.

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He's been with me through this
work.

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And like I said, can we go on a
walk?

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And he was like, what's going
on?

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I was like angry and confused
and like, I didn't know what was

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happening.
And then all of a sudden I was

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like, right, which is sometimes
before grief, I don't know

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what's going on in my body and
my brain's just like, what if I

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don't do?
And I just like fell bawling in

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his arms.
And I was like, I feel weird up

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in the middle of town.
He was like, he just started

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laughing.
He was like, do you know how odd

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bread this is?
You're in a pink dude shirt

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crying in the arms of a large
man in the middle of your town.

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He said, thank you, Ben Curtis,
I love you so much.

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And so that's kind of me.
I really learned to own it.

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And I've had enough men thank me
for being that.

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Like, I don't feel like I have a
choice, but I've learned to own

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it.
And I think that's the thing.

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Anything that feels like we're a
prisoner of, it's always

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ourselves.
And it's how we create it and

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what our programming is what
we're told.

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And like, we finally we get
older.

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We're like, oh, I don't have to
listen to anybody.

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Oh, my God, what have I been
doing?

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Why did I give so much?
You know, hopefully we make it

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this long, right?
There's a lot of I've had many

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times when I didn't think I
would and I I didn't know how to

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love myself for a long time and
I did a lot of self sabotaging.

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And even though I liked the
sensitive side, it wasn't

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working fully in life.
It was like, you know, I was a

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really successful actor and then
I'd have nothing or I was a

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really passionate lover and then
I'd have be alone and I was a

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really great musician.
And then I'd be like suicidally

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depressed while I'm like touring
the country and I'm like, what's

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going on, you know, And so I
realized I had to slow down and

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thank God, like I got arrested
in some big.

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So there's some interventions
along the way.

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I called them higher power
moments.

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The universe is like, Nope, OK,
not too far.

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That has had me start to look at
learning how to re parent and

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love myself.
Even though I had like these

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great parents.
What I did learn is we didn't

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have emotional boundaries
growing up.

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Boundaries was not in my
vocabulary till my 30s till not

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00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,760
even in like it took me going to
al Anon and doing this

226
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,880
codependent work to learn that
you know, I was angry at someone

227
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,520
else in my life for drinking and
it turned out I was the one

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00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,320
without the boundaries.
Like I was the one enabling all

229
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,920
this toxic behavior.
I was the one choosing to be in

230
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,440
relationships over and over
again with, you know, and, and,

231
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,080
and beating myself up for it.
So anyway, there's a lot there

232
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,960
that's not really what you
asked, but I'm passionate about

233
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,800
this topic.
I love you, man.

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00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,160
I'm so glad there's a sensitive
dude like you out there.

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00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,520
And that's why I used to put,
like, helping, you know,

236
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,160
sensitive men.
That was it, like 2.

237
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,640
I served.
And I don't know when to go a

238
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,160
little further than that because
I realized not many men were

239
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,680
able to identify openly as
sensitive.

240
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,880
And it was just like, niching
myself down to like, OK, Eddie,

241
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,040
bed out there.
Hello.

242
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,560
It's OK.
And I saw your show, and it was

243
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,600
really moving that someone made
a whole show about it.

244
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,320
And I was like that.
That's why I need to keep

245
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:26,400
speaking up that guy.
So growing up in the emotionally

246
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,440
open house and high emotional
intelligence and you could be

247
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:36,000
yourself, when did you realize
that wasn't the norm for all

248
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,960
your other male friends?
Pretty early because my dad was

249
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,880
a Christian minister and he was
like, yeah, go to synagogue.

250
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,960
And my Jewish friends are like,
what are you doing here?

251
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,520
And I'm like, this place is
awesome.

252
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,600
They're like, OK, do you really
want to be in Hebrew school?

253
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,080
It's like prison for us.
But you're having a good time.

254
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,200
Great.
I loved it.

255
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,680
I don't.
My dad was such a trailblazer

256
00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,040
and pioneer and civil rights
leader, and my mom worked with

257
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,840
refugees and my parents have
always worked with people who

258
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,480
didn't look like them or come
from the same place.

259
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,920
So it's just like, Oh yeah, this
is.

260
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,320
I just felt like it was there
the whole time.

261
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,800
I felt othered from the fact
that my best friend was black.

262
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,560
I was so different for that
alone in the South and that I

263
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:25,520
was really proud of that and
would like fight for him and

264
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,560
like that that still was an
issue.

265
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:29,520
Then it just I was so angry as a
kid.

266
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,320
That was like, I just I knew it
was different.

267
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,080
I didn't care and it was it was
pretty clear, you know, I think

268
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,800
it's tough to survive.
Like I was like, OK, I can feel

269
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,440
that I've got something these
kids don't, but also they can

270
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,360
kick everyone's ass and I can't
yet.

271
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,240
Like they, there's something
they're getting.

272
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,720
But like, I felt like I just had
to make it through high school

273
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,240
and then I was going to like at
least get to the next part

274
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,080
'cause I could see a lot of
superficiality.

275
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,320
I, I went to a school that was
kind of breeding.

276
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,040
We'll see.
My school is really great, very

277
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,640
religious, a lot of money poured
in there, a lot of privilege.

278
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,280
Not everyone used that power and
privilege as well as other

279
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,040
people and a lot of misuse of
power and sort of what I felt

280
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,000
was enabling that behavior.
Not all of those students got

281
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,760
reprimanded or went under the
radar for it or could get away

282
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,240
with it.
And maybe leading world

283
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,560
companies now.
So that was a little like, I

284
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,760
don't know if I agree with
everyone here.

285
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,360
And it kind of grew me as an
individual, right?

286
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,960
So it allowed me to be OK with
being different and have, oh,

287
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,000
here's the other thing.
I think this will answer your

288
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:39,960
question.
I just heard it.

289
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,840
Thanks, Dad.
He was such.

290
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,680
He was so bullied as a kid.
And one of the greatest tools he

291
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,080
taught me was that bullies,
like, hurt people, hurt people,

292
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,240
you know, he said.
Bullies are.

293
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,920
I remember he sat me down.
He's like Benjamin.

294
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,280
Bullies are some of the most
scared, frightened little boys

295
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,520
you'll ever meet.
And they act all beg and tough

296
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,040
and they're so scared.
And that helped me so much

297
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,000
'cause my dad was not a fighter,
I was definitely more scrappy

298
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,920
than him.
But even like, I wanted to kick

299
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,400
some ass, but I was afraid of
death or dying or hurting

300
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,240
someone or hurting myself.
So I managed to stay out of it.

301
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,120
But I was like, I, I was right
there.

302
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,720
And bullies scared me and I but
I finally learned some

303
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,400
compassion and I think that's
how I I navigated that.

304
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,240
Yeah, it's funny, I I'm only
realizing this now.

305
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,440
I think my biggest fear of
bullies was becoming so upset

306
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,640
that I would cry.
Like if you would just start

307
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,320
beating me up, Oh good, that
that's the easy stuff.

308
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,080
But if I'm so scared and tense
and overwhelmed that I start

309
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,600
crying, that was far worse than
being bloodied.

310
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,680
Interesting.
That whatever, no.

311
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,800
No, that's important, Andy, that
you're saying that.

312
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,040
And because there's someone
who's who's listening, that's

313
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,160
identifying and I'm actually
seeing my anger even more like

314
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,200
I, I, I'm very clear.
I was afraid of my anger as a

315
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,840
child.
It did not feel safe.

316
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,280
And I was afraid I would really,
really hurt someone because I'd

317
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,480
so much pent up anger.
And you said something at the

318
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,440
beginning of the show.
I don't think that anger is

319
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,040
mine.
I think a lot of it was my

320
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,600
parents.
I think it was a lot of it.

321
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,000
You know, them at each other and
at their families and the

322
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,960
generations.
And, you know, that's why I say

323
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,760
like, I hope it's amazing we
make it this far.

324
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,000
You know, we're just these
little bings like absorbing all

325
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,040
this stuff and what do we do
with it, right?

326
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,720
And so if we can create safer
spaces for us, like that's

327
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,400
that's why.
Yeah, we're here today,

328
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,800
hopefully.
All right, so jumping towards

329
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,160
today, what are some of the
biggest myths about masculinity

330
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:43,080
that you still see men carrying?
One, you said it, that we have

331
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,200
to carry it and that we have to
carry it alone.

332
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,800
I still notice myself doing
this.

333
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,160
I think it's deeply programmed.
But like that we're supposed to

334
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:58,720
be the ones to carry it all.
And in that it's, it's still

335
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,600
training myself to ask for help
to not carry it alone.

336
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,720
Like it's OK to go create
something and make something of

337
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,520
yourself and practice carrying
some of the load.

338
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,960
But when you carry all of it,
you rob someone else the

339
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,040
opportunity to be of service.
You push other people away, you

340
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,599
create yourself in a vacuum that
I can do it, I can do it.

341
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:22,680
And you train other people to
stop offering help and and then

342
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,400
you feel like totally a load and
defeated, like you have no help.

343
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,200
And so I think it's sort of the
self fulfilling prophecy that's

344
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,840
really ingrained in US.
I found myself in that position

345
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,760
many times, even like leading my
first retreat with a business

346
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,760
partner with other people, like
still trying to do stuff on my

347
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:39,880
own.
And I'm like, I'm going to make

348
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,360
the fire.
And thank God because I, I said

349
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,720
at the beginning, hold me
accountable for for delegating,

350
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,920
for giving away leadership, for
not like robbing people of that.

351
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,560
So friend tapped me on the
shoulder.

352
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,880
He goes, Ben.
Yeah.

353
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,520
What are you doing?
I'm making the fire.

354
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,080
Yeah, I can see that.
Why are you doing that?

355
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,480
Because I really want to make
the fire.

356
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,400
He's like, yeah, I can see that.
Don't you think that'd be great

357
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,600
for someone else to do?
And I was like, oh, thank you,

358
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:06,800
man.
Yeah.

359
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,800
He's like, I'll go.
He goes, no, no, no, you won't.

360
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,640
I'll go delegate it.
You go do what you need to do

361
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,120
next, right.
And says that kind of stuff.

362
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,400
Right.
I don't remember what the

363
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,840
question was anymore, but
something about present day.

364
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,640
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I guess myths.

365
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:34,280
Oh, that we that, that our bank
account equals our self worth.

366
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:37,400
I don't know if it's like a
myth, but like, I think it's

367
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,600
something a lot of us deal with.
It's not real but like it shows

368
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,240
up everywhere.
That's making I'm definitely

369
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,520
this flashback to the movie Wall
Street where Martin Sheen is in

370
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,120
is in talking to.
Is it Charlie Sheen?

371
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,600
Yeah, Martin's you know, he's
talking to his his son and there

372
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,960
there's father and son in the
movie too and he's in the

373
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,400
elevator.
Just he that's perfect acting of

374
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,000
he's all calm and like, well,
son, I don't know this.

375
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,120
And then he just snaps it.
And I don't judge a man by the

376
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:04,600
size of his wallet and he just.
But I that's the one thing I

377
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,000
remember from that movie that
that that.

378
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,280
Well, exclaimed that, but it's
any time talking someone talks

379
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,200
about money and worthiness and
that's how you're measured.

380
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,720
I always think of that.
Yeah, Also that you have to be

381
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:21,960
strong, look a certain way to be
masculine, That you have to

382
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,440
always be the one to lead all
the time.

383
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,440
That we're not good listeners,
That masculinity is dangerous.

384
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,160
I think that's a myth that
masculinity is toxic, is

385
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,760
made-up, that masculinity is
violent, is made-up.

386
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,000
I think those are the big ones
right now.

387
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,800
It's, it's like uninitiated
masculinity, unconscious

388
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,760
masculinity, ungrounded
masculinity, immature

389
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,200
masculinity, right?
Just those who haven't been

390
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,000
cared for, right?
And it's a really great example

391
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,840
of one of the four masculine
archetypes is the king.

392
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,560
And a lot of us know that king
energy.

393
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,960
And you see all those brands on
Instagram that's like rising

394
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,160
king kings of our kings were
kings.

395
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,640
And there's a shadow side of
each of those.

396
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,720
And king energy is great for us
to all practice stepping forward

397
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,200
into our power.
We all deserve to take up space.

398
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,440
We all deserve to have something
that we like, you know, take

399
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,920
care of and like procure and
claim.

400
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,960
But also.
The the shadow side is the the

401
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,680
tyrant in the high chair, like
telling everyone what to do,

402
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,160
like lying, yelling, acting like
a baby, you know, and you see

403
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,640
this in politics all the time.
You see it with any like look at

404
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,040
any company with hyper
masculinity in it.

405
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,760
There's usually some guy that's
you'll see a man and a loud

406
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:47,960
voice at a lot of this, you
know, and it's like it's

407
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,720
overcompensating, right?
So if a king is sitting in a

408
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,600
throne like he's, he's grounded,
he doesn't need to cry.

409
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,040
And and if he's going to make a
decision, he goes and asks this

410
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,640
whole, he's a meeting with this
whole team, this whole table,

411
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,800
this whole board of advisors
doesn't do it by himself.

412
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,360
And then he makes a decision,
right?

413
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:11,280
And if he has the the the honor
of having a queen beside him,

414
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,160
you better be sure she's part of
that, right?

415
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,600
So learning how to dance and
that that's his working with a

416
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,760
feminine so that he can hold his
power and be grounded.

417
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,200
It's not needing to have the
answer bulldoze or or tell

418
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,320
anyone what to do any of those
things.

419
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,400
You know, the other thing I
always, I always think about

420
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,760
whenever I see the Dude Nation,
and please tell me this is true,

421
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,880
that you have like an annual
gathering where everybody, all

422
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,760
the men gather and watch The Big
Lebowski.

423
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,320
Not yet, not yet.
I'm working on getting the

424
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,160
dudism movement, the dudists out
there.

425
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,280
We have some dudes, some
certified dudes in our group.

426
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,040
It's it.
I think that's a great idea.

427
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,640
I think we're going to have to
have a once a year movie night

428
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,280
for sure, an outdoor screening.
Let's do it.

429
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,840
Maybe you can help me organize
it.

430
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,040
We'll do it on the border of New
York in Massachusetts and we'll

431
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,640
buy all the dudes.
You know, a lot of young

432
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,800
generations don't even know what
we're talking about.

433
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,600
So there's that.
And I was I was a little like, I

434
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,720
love look, having a great time
is a big part of this is

435
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,160
overthinking.
But I just didn't want to relate

436
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,080
us just to being stoners, but we
welcome everyone.

437
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,960
And I like there's so much
beautiful philosophy and great

438
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:34,120
wisdom inside of that movie.
And and it's and we yell, dude,

439
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,320
a lot because one of the things,
again, I also teach men not to

440
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,000
take themselves too seriously is
we have a lot of fun.

441
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,720
And also, if we're not like we
do have gatherings and I think

442
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,200
this is going to be like, yeah,
you'll definitely you will be.

443
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:53,000
I'll make sure to have you a
part of the council.

444
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,000
Make sure we read this by you
before we launch it.

445
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,480
Oh, dude, it's all right.
I love it.

446
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,880
Or you and I can go create it.
I'm down.

447
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,120
Yeah, cool.
All right, so.

448
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,760
So how does Dude Nation help men
embody A healthier masculinity?

449
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,760
That's a great question.
So The Dude Nation helps men

450
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,320
embody healthier masculinity by
being and creating those safe

451
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,760
spaces for us to be able to
practice embodying it.

452
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,640
So we have classes online so you
can dip your toes in, you can

453
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,880
come in and practice like the
Dude Dojo or Dude school where

454
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,680
we're actually taking some of
these tools that most of us men

455
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,080
deal with and we're sort of
wrestling with it together and

456
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,320
it's facilitated.
But we're also an and same thing

457
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,240
with our retreats that do deep
dives in person, the Hudson

458
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,680
Valley Men's Circle, we're
encircling in person, Dude Con,

459
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,640
our annual conference.
We're encircling online and in

460
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,840
person.
A lot of what we start

461
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,280
everything with is grounding
with breath, with body, with

462
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,240
heart.
So we do a lot of emotional

463
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,480
intelligence work.
We pull from a lot of different

464
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,080
wisdoms and archetypes, and we
also have developed our own

465
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,440
artificial intelligence, Aiden,
which is our AI coaching

466
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,920
assistant that any of you can
talk to.

467
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:17,240
So I'm going to drop a it's
84547 O dude and we're going to

468
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,600
put it in, but it's 84547 O dude
and he can't do this yet, but

469
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,600
you're going to be able to
schedule a call for me with him.

470
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,240
But it's totally secure,
private, something we've trained

471
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,120
to help men through personal
professional times crisis.

472
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,120
It will, you know, can
understand if you have a crisis

473
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:35,440
and it's not going to solve it
for you.

474
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,480
It's going to tell you where to
go.

475
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,160
It can recognize if you're a
different gender or if you are

476
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,440
gender fluid and how to have a
conversation.

477
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,480
But mostly it's like a private,
safe, secure space that also ask

478
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,440
questions about the dude nation
and to get real tools for what

479
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,840
you can do and so everything.
So that's like a fun example of

480
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,600
something we just launched this
week.

481
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,960
But all of our programming,
networking and foundational work

482
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,200
is around emotional
intelligence, so I believe from

483
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,200
the inside out.
And then also doing some work

484
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,440
from the outside and some
physical work as well so that we

485
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,680
can literally reprogram our
bodies.

486
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,600
And then we, we have a lot of
affiliate partners and friends

487
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,360
that we work with.
So we're not the masters of

488
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:25,680
everything in a one stop shop
for all men.

489
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,600
We actually a resource.
And so we tune men into

490
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,480
different things and we're very
nature oriented as well.

491
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,120
So I really have.
I've learned a lot from the

492
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,800
from, I've learned a lot from
nature and I really try to give

493
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,040
that away to men as often as
possible.

494
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:45,760
It's a big part of my daily
mental health practice and where

495
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,120
I learn so much wisdom.
So I can tell in everything

496
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:52,680
you've shared about Dude Nation
that community is a big part of

497
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,000
it.
Why do you think community

498
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,520
matters so much for men's
health?

499
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,480
Because it's a basic human need
and we are bodies, we are

500
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,960
sentient beings.
We have nervous systems that Co

501
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,040
regulate and they do that for a
reason.

502
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,880
We're not designed to live in,
you know, a bubble or isolation.

503
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,160
Otherwise they wouldn't put us
in isolation for prison, which

504
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,080
we go insane in.
So we literally need each other.

505
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,600
We're pack animals, we need
community.

506
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,920
We were born in tribe.
They say it takes a village for

507
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,440
a reason because it does.
When you get married, you turn

508
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,400
around and look at the people
because you're not supposed to

509
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,200
hold a marriage by yourself.
You're supposed to hold it with

510
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,680
all of them.
But we forget that and we're

511
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,720
like, oh, my marriage isn't
working, you know, and you're

512
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,600
like, yo, you need to stop and
say help and ask from here and

513
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,920
here and here and here.
And you're not supposed to be

514
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080
able to carry this by yourself
Anything right?

515
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,680
Your business, Like I've run
businesses.

516
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,000
I still, no, I don't run any of
them on my own anymore, but I've

517
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,400
had up to five and I was like
professional magician,

518
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,600
professional actor.
I don't do that by myself

519
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,840
either.
Professional musician, still do

520
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,040
that with my wife, some on my
own, but I have accountability

521
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,360
of partnership.
When you sit in a circle, magic

522
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,360
happens.
It's the oldest technology.

523
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:20,840
My friend David Fulton calls it
the OGAI, Ancient intelligence,

524
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,280
the technology of a circle.
It handles so much.

525
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,040
I used to do so much specific
programming for men.

526
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,000
We're going to do this and this
and this and this and this.

527
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,640
And when I got out of the way, I
was like, Oh my God, it's so

528
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,320
much more powerful when I'm out
of the way.

529
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,120
Same thing in a band.
When I create music and then I

530
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,320
take it to someone else, I'm
like, no, it's got to be like

531
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,880
this.
Like, that's cool.

532
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:44,760
But when I let them add to it,
I'm like, whoa, the less

533
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,440
attached I become.
It becomes bigger than me.

534
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,960
And then suddenly I'm just like,
it's closest thing I can relate

535
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,160
to feeling healed.
Like yesterday, my partner was

536
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,480
not available for something that
I was going through.

537
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,920
And I was like, I had a moment
of light.

538
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,760
She's not available.
And then I was like, wait a

539
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,520
second, You just poured your
heart out in the dude Dojo.

540
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,640
You just had all these men
identify with you and you with

541
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,800
them, and you just had the most
amazing hour and you got exactly

542
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,880
what you needed.
Why are you still trying to make

543
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,400
someone else wrong?
Like, dude, you're doing the

544
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,520
work and it's working.
So just be grateful for above.

545
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,640
And then I was like, I celebrate
too.

546
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,320
I teach that as well.
So yeah, that's it for me right

547
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,400
now.
Is has there been a

548
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,560
transformation of a man that
you've worked with that has like

549
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,320
surprised even you or or
impacted you in a in a in a

550
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,520
different unique way?
I really relate to being

551
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,600
empathic and intuitive.
And I want to say a quick

552
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,680
disclaimer, I'm not unique in
that we actually all have the,

553
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,920
we all are empathic and
intuitive and we have the some

554
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,120
more than others more, some have
been trained.

555
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,360
Some of our survival mechanisms
have kept us from being more so,

556
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,360
but it's something like a muscle
that we can all tune and become

557
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,960
stronger at.
And my, my dear friend Daniel

558
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,600
Tuttle, the provocative
intuitive, I meditate with him

559
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,520
every day.
He's a friend, he's a mentor,

560
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,120
he's an energy healer.
He reminds me he's he's been

561
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,280
hearing and able to communicate
with other dimensions and people

562
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,840
who have passed on and, and
people here in a an

563
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,480
intelligence, some people would
call like psychic or

564
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,360
hyperintuitive.
And he's like, no, you all have

565
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:27,680
this.
So he really taught me to

566
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,160
believe in my own and I love
that about him.

567
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,520
So I tell you that too, that we
really can can take that on.

568
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,840
Sorry, ask me a question one
more time.

569
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,320
Is there a transformation of a
man that has surprised even you?

570
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,720
Yeah, thank you.
Wow, that was long within when I

571
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,480
said all that, all that was to
say that like not many people

572
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,360
surprised me.
Like I just really see people's

573
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,120
potential.
I feel like that's kind of my

574
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,160
job and I see the big it's what
I want for someone.

575
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,280
But I think probably one of the
biggest ones I saw that was

576
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,880
awesome was yeah, OK, yeah,
Yeah, it's two that surprised

577
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,200
me.
One was we had a men's circle

578
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,480
and there was, you know, men
ages up to like 80 years old.

579
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,720
And right before we were about
to start, it was like, you know,

580
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,480
pretty typical range of dudes.
A 25 year old transgender man

581
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:29,120
walked in and he taught me so
much just to be able to show up

582
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,880
in that room and told us how
unsafe he feels in the world

583
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,640
right now and especially in our
country, even in his own towns

584
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,520
and cities and at work.
And how much how many fights he

585
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,400
has defending himself.
And, and that he walked in this

586
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,080
group of men and he saw
something possible for himself.

587
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,920
And he got seen and heard and
taught us all something about

588
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,120
what it really is to be a man in
this world and what some of us

589
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,280
have to go through to be a man
in this world based on what the

590
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,800
world thinks a man should be and
look like.

591
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,800
And I identified with that a
lot, even as a, you know, born a

592
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,880
man, whether you identify or
agree with this argument either

593
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,800
or not, like someone who feels
so other than the world and

594
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,240
identifies as something that
people think is not human or or

595
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,760
normal.
I think really takes something

596
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,080
to be that I, I learned when my
father was like, I was not born

597
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,920
gay.
I wouldn't, I mean, I'm, I did

598
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,720
not choose to be gay.
Like I would never want to be

599
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:28,960
gay.
Like I tried not to be gay.

600
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,520
I went to therapy, tried not to
be gay.

601
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,120
Like it's really, really hard.
Trust me, it just happened.

602
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,040
You know, it's part of who we
are.

603
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,040
And the other, you know, so that
was really amazing to that.

604
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,720
That man taught us so much.
And then the other one was a 63

605
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,760
year old veteran whose son had
committed suicide.

606
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,080
And he was up here in New York
visiting and he saw a poster for

607
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,280
men's retreat.
But he's from South Carolina.

608
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,520
And he had been really closed
off and in pain.

609
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,960
And he, he was like, he called
me and he was like, I don't know

610
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,240
exactly why I'm calling you.
I've never really done anything

611
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,240
like this, but I'm going to fly
all the way up to New York for

612
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,200
your retreat and stay there.
It's so weird.

613
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,720
So I don't know.
He's like really going there.

614
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,560
And he just, he was silent most
of the retreat.

615
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,800
And then at the end, he opened
up.

616
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,880
He told us whole story of his
son.

617
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,160
He had created the socks for
him.

618
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,880
They're called Warren Pete's
because his son, when he was a

619
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,840
baby, he used to call his feet
Pete's.

620
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,720
So he has.
It's dedicated to Warren Pete's,

621
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,960
his son.
And I was just so moving that

622
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,600
this man, something made him
feel safe here.

623
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,320
He was a veteran.
He dealt with PTSD and trauma

624
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,560
and severe loneliness and
isolation and suicidal ideation

625
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,480
and thought his life was over
and his son who he lived for

626
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,840
died.
Like, what else did he have to

627
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,720
live for?
And still like, not sure.

628
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,000
Like day 2 of there were three
day retreats.

629
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,520
Still not sure why I'm here, You
know?

630
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,960
And then something cracked.
And you know, when you see

631
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,600
what's possible and you're
actually have other men hold

632
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,760
something for you, A it could be
like almost traumatic because if

633
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,120
you've never actually had that
experience, it's like really

634
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:31,160
letting go feels really scary.
And then you live, you're like,

635
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,520
oh, that was amazing.
I lived, Oh my God, I didn't die

636
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,600
right?
And it was seeing that

637
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,520
transformation was and there's
always some one of us that's

638
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,000
resistant.
I've been that hyper resistant.

639
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,600
I have no idea why I'm going to
this.

640
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,800
And then the at the end I'm
like, Oh my God, that was the

641
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,040
best thing ever.
Yeah, I've come to realize the

642
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,600
more resistant I into something,
the better it's going to be.

643
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,000
So now I'm really excited.
Oh, I really don't want to go to

644
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:56,280
this.
Oh, good.

645
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,360
Like, oh, because if I'm just
like, yeah, let's this'll be

646
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:00,520
fun.
It'll be like it is.

647
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,920
It's just fun in light.
But if I really am afraid to go

648
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,240
to something, I know it's going
to be huge for me.

649
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,760
What's the biggest challenge
that you see facing men today

650
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,840
that isn't getting talked about
enough?

651
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,000
Well, the good news is I think a
lot of things are starting to be

652
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,280
talked about.
That's I'm like racking my

653
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,159
brain.
I've been sent a lot of articles

654
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,120
this week alone, like New York
Times, Psychology Today, all

655
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,520
this stuff popping up.
Well, it's not really being

656
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,520
talked about in cells.
You know, I didn't even know

657
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,440
what that was till a year or two
ago.

658
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:35,840
And come to find out, like how
many young men have done that

659
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,520
suicide for men under 40, you
know, under 50, like the men who

660
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,880
don't like have these huge
families and huge jobs, yet I've

661
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,000
lost multiple friends to
suicide.

662
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,000
And I know there's something
there.

663
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,239
I can't put my finger on it.
I can feel it.

664
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,120
I want to say something about
sex.

665
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,800
I think it's talked about, but
it's like, it just feels like

666
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:03,040
it's all about, like it's really
black and white spaces and

667
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,040
sexual abuse is probably one of
the hardest things for us to

668
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,160
talk about.
I mean, statistically, it takes

669
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,840
us 30 years to say anything.
One in six men have

670
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,640
statistically reportedly been
sexually abused.

671
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,200
That's the ones that say
something.

672
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,080
So they think it's actually
closer to one in four or five.

673
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,960
I myself realized this year that
something I thought was normal

674
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:33,040
was being sexually molested.
I wrote myself off as not having

675
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,360
ever been through that but
feeling as if I had.

676
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,680
And then I was telling my friend
about how like the umpire I was

677
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,120
a catcher in Little League.
The umpire used to reach under

678
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,120
and like touch my junk to make
sure I was wearing my cup, so to

679
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,760
speak.
But even then as a kid, it felt

680
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,280
weird.
And like I that happened

681
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,000
numerous times and I know it
happened to me and much of SAP

682
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,520
and other people.
And it only took me telling

683
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,800
adults like, now to be like, oh,
oh, I just thought that was the

684
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,680
southern thing.
Like, yeah, let me just check or

685
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,720
tell your kid.
And like, even that, like didn't

686
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,240
feel right.
And yet as a kid, I told myself,

687
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,320
like, dude, you're fine.
Like, why are you just being

688
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,120
cool?
It's interesting how what we can

689
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,880
make up about something.
And, and I don't think, Oh, and

690
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,400
there's one other thing I want
to say that I think is really

691
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,000
not being talked about, and that
is grief, but even more

692
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,360
specifically, miscarriage and
how it affects men.

693
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:29,160
I've been through a lot of
trauma through the miscarriage

694
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,720
that my wife had, we had and it,
it is a trauma for men as well.

695
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,440
And I don't think a lot of men
know that they're allowed to

696
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,280
deal with it.
One, that and two, that that

697
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:45,760
that it really does affect them,
us and in ways that we have yet

698
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,000
to understand fully because
we're not talking about it.

699
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,360
And so I noticed when when I
started talking about mine, how

700
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,960
many people were thanking me and
how many women were thanking me,

701
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,160
but women's men still weren't
saying anything.

702
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,400
And my friends were like, Oh my
God, I never mentioned mine.

703
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,640
That happened seven years ago
ever to anyone.

704
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,440
Oh my God.
Right.

705
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,840
So that's another thing.
Yeah, when we first spoke you

706
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,080
would mention in cells then too.
Do do you know what would?

707
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,440
What would you want to say to
any man that identifies as an in

708
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,680
cell?
A lot of things.

709
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,000
I don't know if there's anything
I can say it's going to make a

710
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,680
difference to you other than
believe it or not I understand I

711
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:28,360
was not always fuckable.
I really identify with being

712
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,640
alone and wanting to seek
violence or self harm or harm of

713
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:37,680
others as a way of numbing out.
And I'm here to show proof that

714
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,480
like there's actually a way to
learn to love yourself and other

715
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,840
men will start to and and women
will actually love the things

716
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,640
that you're most afraid of to
talk about are the very things

717
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,000
that are going to have you start
to be loved.

718
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,520
But when you're we're so I
understand you need one

719
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,480
community and I just want to
offer that there's ones that

720
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,320
don't have to be harmful to you
and you deserve to live another

721
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,880
day and you can come check out
the do nation anytime you can

722
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,080
dip your toes in.
You don't have to ever talk,

723
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,200
ever be seen.
You can just listen and allow

724
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,920
you know us to love you till you
learn to love yourself.

725
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,080
Yeah, even all all these, you
know, extremist fringe groups,

726
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,120
whatever the label might be,
they all do prove the power and

727
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,800
need for community.
We I would just like to see a

728
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,200
healthier core reason for the
gathering of a community.

729
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,360
Yeah, and I got it too.
I mean, it's like, what can we

730
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,960
say?
Because if, if you're being hit

731
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,360
already, I'm seeing this like I
have to close my eyes in

732
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,440
commercials 'cause I'm noticing
them that they're getting

733
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,600
brighter and flashier and
colorful and I'm it's, it's

734
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,640
really over stimuling.
Also, we have like a movie

735
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,120
screen TV, so we could get rid
of it during the day, but it's

736
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,880
intense and it I'm noticing like
all that stuff we have actually

737
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,520
what they're proving was it post
like algorithmic stress.

738
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,200
There's like these like
depressions that we're having

739
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,760
from algorithms, like working
their ways into our brain like a

740
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,680
little worm, you know, and we
were hooked in these things.

741
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,480
And it sort of takes more and
more to we get desensitized,

742
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:21,280
right?
And so we see it takes more and

743
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,000
more stuff to kind of wake us
up.

744
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,320
And even watching the 100 foot
wave, I'm a big surfer and

745
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:29,480
watching like, I'm just
fascinated with why these people

746
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,400
have put themselves in this
situation.

747
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,360
Like, I've been injured a lot.
But these guys are like, you

748
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,360
know, it is like, hey, let me
just jump off this Cliff and

749
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,240
hope I land this time.
And, you know, part of it is one

750
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,040
of the guys right off Garrett
McNamara is the first one to

751
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,400
surf this huge wave said I'm
addicted to the rush.

752
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,800
You know, suddenly I couldn't
get the rush anymore and so I

753
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,200
had to go for a bigger wave.
So I get it if like this isn't

754
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,560
cutting it and why we're cutting
ourselves.

755
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,480
And we just want to feel
something that's not this pain.

756
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,240
And this pain, I'm sorry, is not
even yours.

757
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,480
Like you've been given this by
programmers by.

758
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:13,000
By generational trauma, by a
country that doesn't know how to

759
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,520
support you in communicating, by
cell phone industry, by all this

760
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,000
stuff that is like, I think
you're probably doing the best

761
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,720
with the way you have.
You're like, hey, here's a

762
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,000
community that I actually
identify with that I like talk

763
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,120
with.
But if you know that there's

764
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,600
only a part of you getting
served there and there's a whole

765
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,160
other part you've had to cut off
to be there, that's usually a

766
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,440
sign that there's just consider
that you could be in more than

767
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,960
one community and maybe and feel
seen and heard.

768
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,040
And, and if you're looking for
safe space or even if that

769
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,480
doesn't feel safe, you can
always send me a message and I

770
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,880
will personally have a
conversation with you.

771
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,200
It, it will take me 24 hours to
get back to you.

772
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,000
I don't put automated messaging
and things in my, my stuff yet

773
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,320
because I, I really want to make
sure I see everything.

774
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,600
And I go back and sometimes I
miss something and I'm like 6

775
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,360
months later.
Oh my God, hey, I dropped the

776
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,720
ball.
I see you like, are you still

777
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:10,120
open to talking to me?
You know, have you moved on?

778
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,240
Like I'll, I'll be there.
You send me another message if I

779
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,640
miss you.
But I, you know, I have a link.

780
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,400
You can book a call with me and
get on my calendar anytime and

781
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,000
if I'm not the right resource,
like I can refer you to someone

782
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,400
who can be.
And there's free resources you

783
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,640
don't have to pay.
And I find investing a little

784
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:35,200
bit in yourself has you start to
build worth very quickly.

785
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,360
But I don't believe anyone
should have to pay for community

786
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,560
and we all need it and deserve
it.

787
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,600
And any conversation with me is
private, confidential and free.

788
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,840
How has what it means to be a
man evolved for you if it has?

789
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,640
Well, I know I can be a real man
and be sensitive now.

790
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,560
I know I can be a real man and
not be rich.

791
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,280
I know I can be a real man and
really in touch with my feminine

792
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,680
side.
I know I can be a real man and

793
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:10,720
be a really sexy dancer and move
my hips and my chest and, like,

794
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,120
make intent to eye contact with
people.

795
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,120
I know I can be a real man and
be really emotional and cry in

796
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,320
public.
Yeah, my dad cried all the time

797
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,480
is so embarrassing.
And now I'm like, I don't care.

798
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,720
I hope someone sees me crying.
Maybe it'll give them

799
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:31,200
permission.
My friend Mark Gwai, he leads

800
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,240
some beautiful father work and
meditation.

801
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:37,880
He's a coach and one of the
first times we met, he asked if

802
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,640
I wanted at the end of the time,
he's like, would you be open to

803
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,160
do some eye gazing?
And like, even for me, it was

804
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:46,800
the actor.
I've done that.

805
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,280
I have not do that on retreats.
I'm like, I know you, That's

806
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,200
weird.
And that was so beautiful.

807
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,520
And then I had this moment, like
I saw this.

808
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,480
I can hear someone walking by
and I was like, oh sweet, I hope

809
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,680
they're looking at us right now.
I was staring into each other's

810
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,640
eyes and like this man and I
both have our own families and

811
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,200
like, and I love this dude and
he's going to be there for me

812
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,960
when my mom dies and I'm going
to be there for him when his mom

813
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,440
dies.
And I think it's one of because

814
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,960
he was so willing to let me see
him and be so vulnerable.

815
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,360
And I just the other thing is I
learned also this from Preston a

816
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,200
lot and I now exemplify this I
think pretty well is like you

817
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,920
don't have to have your shit
together to be a real man or to

818
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,400
be a great leader.
Like he would always tell one on

819
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,800
himself.
Like I struggle on my

820
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,080
relationships, all of them
sometimes and with myself.

821
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,000
But being willing to be open and
real and honest is one of the

822
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,880
sexiest things.
Like women just want

823
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,080
authenticity and someone who
like deals with themself.

824
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,200
And part of that is it's not
then listen, I know this isn't

825
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,120
all about men and women and gay
or straight, but this is like

826
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,120
the feminine needs a solid
space.

827
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,200
And it is not appropriate to put
all of that masculine energy

828
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,360
into a feminine space.
We need each other.

829
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,400
We need places to practice and
community that is not just one

830
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,160
person.
Like they can't, it's not

831
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,560
appropriate for your partner to
hold all this same thing.

832
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,840
I'll tell the women like get a
women's circle, get a group of

833
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,760
people to support you because
it's not appropriate for your

834
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,200
husband or your partner to hold
all of that either.

835
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,400
So it's like, you know, I really
want to encourage you to put the

836
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,840
oxygen mask on yourself first in
a fine community if you're out

837
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,800
there, even if it's just like,
hey, I listen to the real men

838
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,000
feel show every day.
And this is my, this is

839
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,080
community for me.
Hey, this is a great place to

840
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,120
start.
If you're identifying with

841
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,200
something that feels like maybe
there's something here like

842
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,560
that's a good safe go where it's
warm first.

843
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,400
You don't have to like go into
some like alpha intense boot

844
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,920
camp if it's not comfortable,
right?

845
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,920
Like start with where it's a
warm because you who you are is

846
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,240
actually one of the most
interesting things in the world.

847
00:44:56,240 --> 00:45:00,640
And the more you get to embrace
that and find places that will

848
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,040
listen for you and hold space
for you and hold you accountable

849
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,280
for that, I think that's where
it's at.

850
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,880
What is your ultimate vision for
Dude Nation?

851
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:20,720
That all men everywhere see us,
experiences us as a safe harbor.

852
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,240
That we are known in the world
as a safe harbor for men, a

853
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:28,960
place that will of community and
of resource.

854
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,720
That we become really a resource
for the world mostly.

855
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:40,080
That we continue to fulfill our
mission of developing emotional

856
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:45,280
intelligence or love,
resilience, partnership,

857
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:51,080
community and brotherhood, and
healthy ground and masculinity

858
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,520
in the world.
And that we hold each other

859
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,120
accountable to do that.
And may we be one of the many

860
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,840
beacons of light that do that
because as many men are in the

861
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,040
world, there could be many
different organizations.

862
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,720
We are one of them.
There's this great quote.

863
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:05,440
We'll be getting one of my
favorite songs.

864
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,440
He's like, ladies and gentlemen,
there have been many songs

865
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:14,040
written in the world.
This is one of them and it is.

866
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,120
And if it speaks to you, great.
And that's why I even have like

867
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,600
Aiden, our our dude bot who's
Australia too.

868
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,720
He's really fun to talk to.
He like it's sort of decided

869
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:27,600
that on its own based on the
research.

870
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,680
And I was like, well, cool, OK,
and Aussie, it's a 24 hour

871
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,400
resource.
So if you ever have any

872
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,760
questions, like, you know, come
see us.

873
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,680
But I I think I answered the
question.

874
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,480
What's one thing you wish more
men knew?

875
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,200
That they're allowed to say no
and stand up for themselves, but

876
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,360
they don't have to put up with
being talked down to by their

877
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:51,840
partners just because they're
men.

878
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,840
They don't have to be quiet just
because they're men.

879
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,360
They're allowed to be loud and
angry.

880
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,360
It's not one thing, but it's
like your voice that matters.

881
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:09,360
And if your needs aren't being
met or you feel needy, like

882
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,320
consider that your needs are
being met and and that maybe

883
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,240
there's some other places where
you could also get them met.

884
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:18,040
Like maybe there's other you're
not alone.

885
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,040
And there are a lot of safe
spaces here for you that can

886
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,520
look however you want and you
can kind of take what you need

887
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,960
being you get to say what you
need and being a man.

888
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:34,200
Ben, what's the best way for
people to find out everything

889
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,360
that you and Dude Nation are up
to?

890
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:44,400
Call Aiden really 84547 O dude,
because you can ask any question

891
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,080
in the world and call it 24
hours a day from anywhere in the

892
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,000
world.
Or go to thedudenation.com and

893
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,800
everything's there, including a
link to book a call with me to

894
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,320
get on our newsletter, to get
free resources, to get

895
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,240
connected, to hear real
testimonials from men in our

896
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:05,360
organization and poke around and
see what a fun safe space might

897
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,080
be like.
It's a pretty simple site.

898
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,960
We're not here to sell you a
bunch of stuff.

899
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,440
And if you join our community,
we send an e-mail out once a

900
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,320
week, usually with some really
useful tools.

901
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,280
Each month is a different theme
for us based on what men are

902
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,440
actually dealing with and what
the world is dealing with.

903
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,120
So we're doing a lot of great
work with each other and in the

904
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,920
organization, asking questions,
encouraging, challenging men to,

905
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,400
to, you know, really work on
their mental health and, and you

906
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,440
know, like the good night bro.
There was a good night bro

907
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,320
movement where guys were just
calling each other saying good

908
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,840
night bro.
And it was like slowing suicide

909
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,960
down for, you know, a week
because we started to, to think

910
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,360
about each other and communicate
it.

911
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,680
So it's really simple things of
just reaching out.

912
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,120
Ben, I really appreciate
everything you're doing.

913
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,120
That's the best way to get some
it up.

914
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:04,440
I I love thing all, all dude,
con dude, Dojo dude, everything

915
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,000
I'm in and I'm really glad to
find out that we're not that far

916
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,960
away from each other and we
maybe we can do some actually in

917
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,120
human contact things in the
future.

918
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,720
I would love to give you a hug,
Andy Grant.

919
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,200
For real?
Yeah.

920
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,160
And.
Well, thanks, dude.

921
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,080
You really made an impact on my
life.

922
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,520
Oh, and received like I really
receive your acknowledgement and

923
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,520
know that that it I really feel
the same way whether people are

924
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,640
listening or not.
What you're up to in the world

925
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,120
is really beautiful.
And you're one of the first

926
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,480
shows I started following when I
got into like I'm gonna follow

927
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,520
other men and feel.
And you know, I was like this

928
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,560
guy.
He's, you know, like, thank you,

929
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,880
Andy.
It really spoke to me.

930
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,560
I'm one of those people who
needed to feel validated as a

931
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,600
man who feels and guess what we
all do.

932
00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:01,480
And I heard you like I heard a
call and I'm clear that dude con

933
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,360
is going to be in person, maybe
hybrid so people can TuneIn

934
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,920
other where, but we're going to
have the real men feel show or

935
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,160
Andy Grant on stage there.
That's that feels really good to

936
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,560
me.
And so I hope that that's

937
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,800
something you'd be interested in
and we'll definitely follow up.

938
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,880
And I'd love to have you on my
show.

939
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,720
Dude, you're getting well.
We're talking about, you know,

940
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:23,400
what are some things we can
actually do?

941
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,760
How you do take care of yourself
as a, you know, today in the

942
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,520
world, balancing what you do and
how different leaders have

943
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,600
turned pain and a purpose.
And I would love to just stay

944
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,640
connected with you.
And I'm really grateful for

945
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,920
everyone who listens to this
show, whether it's your first

946
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,840
time or you've been listening
for a long time.

947
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,480
If there's anything in here that
moved you, that touched you,

948
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,440
that inspired you, tell Andy,
tell me.

949
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,760
And more importantly, like share
it with someone in your life

950
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,320
because holding on to it is
selfish.

951
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,160
You want to give it away and be
like, dude, look what I learned

952
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,400
because then they can help hold
you accountable.

953
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,600
And we need each other so that
friends who you're like, I don't

954
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,600
want to call him like as much as
when you pick up the phone and

955
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,640
you ask someone else how they're
doing or just period, you can

956
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,720
just listen.
It's an opportunity for someone

957
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:15,240
else to be of service to you
too.

958
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,160
So even asking for help is one
of the greatest gifts that we

959
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,360
can give anyone in our life.
And I just support and I leave

960
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,600
our listeners with that and and
that I'm very grateful to be on

961
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,120
your show.
Thanks for joining us everyone.

962
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,920
Please visit realmanfield.org
for the blog post for this

963
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,200
episode, which held all the
various links and resources to

964
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,280
discuss wherever you're
discovering real and feel.

965
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,800
Please subscribe, follow, like,
share this episode with

966
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,600
somebody, post a review or a
comment, and until next time, be

967
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:40,240
good to yourself.