Breaking the Silence: Male Victims of Domestic Violence and The Legal System

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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This is your host, author, coach
and healer, Andy Grant.

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Please visit theandygrant.com to
learn more about me.

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Real Men Feel reminds men that
they're human beings and have

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the right to experience and
express all of their emotions.

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We have conversations this most
men are not having, but that all

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men and the women who love them
can benefit from.

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My guest today is Patrick Leary.
Patrick is a college professor

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and owner of Clutch Coaching
LLC, a consulting company

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focused on the health and
Wellness of student athletes as

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they make life and career
transitions.

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Patrick is also a domestic
violence survivor who is

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dedicated to serving the global
community of men who have

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endured physical abuse and
mental anguish within a domestic

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relationship.
The conversation today is pretty

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heavy.
Patrick shares a four years long

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experience with our court
system.

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Numerous faults, charges made
against him, the the losing of

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so many aspects of his life and
livelihood.

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Yet through it all, he keeps his
humanity, hope and resilience.

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Patrick offers advice for men in
similar situations and changes

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he'd like to see in a legal
system to better recognize and

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support male victims.
Let's do it.

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Welcome to Real Men Field,
Patrick.

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Great to be here, Andy.
Thanks for having me today.

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Yeah, this, this is been a long
time coming.

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I had Anne Silvers as a guest.
She's an author writing about

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the abuse of men by women.
And that was four years ago.

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And in those four years, you
came into contact with her and

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she recommended that you talk to
me and and we did talk like 3

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years ago, right?
We sure did.

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We sure did.
And you know, I, I'm glad that

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we stayed connected and really
happy to be with you today to

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share, share my story.
So you are a domestic violence

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survivor who was also falsely
charged by your former partner.

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So you had a year's long journey
through our fabulous legal

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system.
And when we talked a while ago,

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you this was still going on.
So so now things are resolved.

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Yes, for the most part, yeah.
So I've, I've cleared all of

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the, the false charges, you
know, I've been through, you

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know, hell and back, as they
say.

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And you know, it's been, it's
been a really long four years

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and I'm now ready to, you know,
start to share and to really

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help others that may be facing
similar type situations.

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So can you take us back to the
first point in your relationship

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that you realized you were in an
abusive relationship?

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Certainly, yeah, I've never been
around abuse my entire life.

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I I was raised by wonderful
parents, came up in a wonderful

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family, you know, and and
certainly would learned how to

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treat people as a result of how
my parents treated others and

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how I was raised.
And, you know, it was about four

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months into my, my relationship
where I was abused, physically

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assaulted by my partner at the
time.

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And it was very strange to me.
It, it was very abnormal.

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You know, I've, I've never, I
don't resolve to abuse and I

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never have.
And it was very foreign to me.

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And I just out of, I guess
shrugged it off at the moment.

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You know, keeping in mind that,
you know, I, I had been friends

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with a partner before we kind of
consummated our relationship.

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I I had known her for less than
a year before the abuse began,

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and once it started, that
seemingly didn't end.

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Were you married at the time or
living together?

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What was the?
Situation, yeah, we were, we

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were, we were engaged at the
time living together.

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He was actually pregnant at the
time that the abuse began and

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then it continued after he had
our our child.

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So it was really a very
difficult situation for me and

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and that's why I'm here today to
try to spare my experience in

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the event that it could help
just one person that would, you

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know, was would be in a like
situation.

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What made you stay in this
relationship since the the if it

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was not a one time event the the
abuse happened on a recurring

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basis at least late and so why
make yourself stay there for

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that?
Yeah, that's a great question.

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I, which I ask myself
frequently.

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I, I journal a lot.
And you know, before today's

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meeting with you, I, I, I went
back to my notes and, and I

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asked myself that question a
lot.

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I think it's because I believe
in people and I've never been

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around abuse, so I didn't know
how to respond to it in the

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moment.
So instead of asking for help

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for myself, I tried to find help
for her.

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And I reached out to, you know,
I chronicled every moment of the

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abuse, every, every incident.
I wrote a long letter to her at

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first that I in fact was in an
abusive relationship to which

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she agreed.
And I shared, I shared the, I

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shared that with her, her, her
family, because I thought that

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it would be appropriate for them
to understand that I, I, I

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needed some help to be able to
help her.

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So that's a great question.
And, and, and again, to this

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day, it, it's something that I
want to be able to share my

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story to help others because,
you know, hindsight, as you

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know, is 2020 and I would have
handled it differently.

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But at that time I thought the
right thing to do was to try to

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help instead of help her instead
of try to help myself.

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At what point did you did this
become so much that you decided

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that enough was enough and you
and you did end this

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relationship?
It's when she brought it in to

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the children and she she hurt my
child, she hurt my son.

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And that's when my legal
troubles began because I had I

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called 911 immediately.
She, you know, I previously

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mentioned to her we were in
counseling at the time he had,

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he finally was seeking
counseling for her issues.

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And you know, I said, if you
bring the abuse, I said I can

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handle it as an adult.
But if I ever see this, and

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I'll, I'll work with you to seek
the help that you need.

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But if you ever bring this into
our, our family, down to our

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children, it, it's, we can't, we
can't exist.

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We can't exist as as a unit and
and that in fact happened where

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she the physically assaulted my
child and I in turn called 911

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as a result of that.
What was your thought process

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when you were calling 911?
What?

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What did you expect to happen?
That they would, I would, I

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would get some help.
I would get some relief of the

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situation that I was in.
It was a untenable situation.

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I was, I was holding a, you
know, a, a six month old baby in

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one arm and consoling my, my 8
year old child in the other that

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was hysterically crying trying
to escape from this individual.

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So I was in a very untenable.
I, I, I had, I needed help.

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That would That's when I knew I
needed help and I thought I was

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going to receive help.
And what did happen when the

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police arrived?
I was arrested.

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Did your did your partner make
charges against you at that time

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or was this just automatic
behavior by the police or?

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No, she, she actually be injured
herself while the police were in

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route and she admitted, she
admitted as much she be self

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injured.
She she was smart enough to know

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that someone was going to be
taken away and she didn't want

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it to be her.
So you know, it's the first, the

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first person that the police saw
was her.

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They saw that she was visibly
upset and sustained an injury,

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that she armed herself and I was
upstairs with the children

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trying to protect them from her
at the time.

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And they barrel down the door
and took the kids away and next

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thing I was gone.
I was in.

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I was arrested.
How long was the the legal

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battle from from being arrested
that night to to be to

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resolution in court?
Here's the perplexing elements

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to this whole, you know to this
whole story is that following

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that incident, the the pardon
was very remorseful, understood

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that she did the wrong thing by
me, understood that he abused

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the legal system.
And you know, someone that is a

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college professor that has never
committed any crime ever before

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had a serious charge against
him.

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And I, Andy, to be honest with
you, I, I had no idea how I've

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never been in court.
I, I, I, I, you know, I appeared

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the next day and I didn't
realize how serious the charges

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were, you know, because I, I
hadn't committed a crime.

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And So what ended up happening
was, you know, she realized she

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wanted to, she wanted to stay in
the relationship.

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And we did, you know, we had, I
had a 8 year olds home with like

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my ex-wife and the six month old
at the time with her.

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And I'm very family oriented.
So I, I, I really wanted to make

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sure I, I tried to take all the
right steps to see this through

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again, you know, knowing that
that was a very traumatic

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experience for me.
I knew at that time that I was

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going to leave her.
I knew immediately that this was

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the time, but I had a serious
charge levied against me.

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So I was trying to, I was in a
very difficult situation with

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really no resources to support
me other than my family and my

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friend.
And it's quite humiliating, as

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you can imagine, you know,
having this charge against you.

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That is when you're, you're an
educator, you know, you're,

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it's, it's, it was a, a very
difficult situation for me.

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So what I ended up doing was I I
stayed in the relationship with

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her, but I ended up putting my
Hondo up for sale.

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I knew that I couldn't be around
her anymore.

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And in fact, after that night I
wouldn't allow or my ex-wife

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wouldn't allow my child, my son
to be around this this

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individual that had assaulted an
8 year old child.

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So he wasn't allowed to see her
anymore.

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I moved back in with my parents,
with my son, and I kept the

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condo.
I put it up for sale, and that

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was a way for me to kind of
break it off with her.

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I wasn't sure what the outcome
would be, but that was what I

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thought would be the best way to
separate myself from from her

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and from the continued abuse.
It was just a very toxic

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situation.
So you're kind of being an an

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actor in this time.
Let letting her think you want

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to continue the relationship
while you're severing ties.

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Yeah, it was, it was very
stressful because obviously I, I

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cared for her as a person and I,
I had this charge against me.

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And it was, it was up to her to
essentially relieve me of the

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charge.
And, and she, she, my lawyer at

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the time, actually consulted me
to, to be be very nice to her

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because the fate of my, of my
charge rested in her hands are

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eventually, you know, I, I
really as educated as I believe

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I am, I, I really don't, wasn't
as familiarized with the

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criminal justice system.
And, you know, she, she signed a

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victim impact statement saying
that I didn't do it, that it

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was, I never had laid a hand on
her.

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But at the same time, she, she,
she sensed that I was trying to

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remove myself from the
relationship.

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And, you know, she ended up
moving back with her parents and

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I ended up moving back with my
parents temporarily.

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But we were still trying to find
a way to maintain a relationship

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through, you know, through that
following that that initial

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incident.
What was the actual charge

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against you at that time?
Domestic violence against a

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partner.
Assault, assault and battery

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against a domestic partner.
And when she did the victim

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statement saying nothing had
happened, did she have the

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ability the the power to stop
the charge or was that already?

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She she, she, she did, however,
she didn't show up in court that

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that that morning.
She simply just filled out the,

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the victim impact statement and
then there was going to be

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another court date set, which
there was.

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But this is just the beginning
of the story.

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The hope, you know, there was
other episodes that have the

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transpired following that
initial incident to that, that

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court date in which if we were,
you know, amicable and we were

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symmetrical and in so far as our
our futures together, it it

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wouldn't have been, it would
have been, it would have been

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resolved, but it it never got to
that point.

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We just, I wasn't willing to to
work with her to to maintain our

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relationship.
She is saying she wants to

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continue relationship.
You are clear and know that you

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don't want one, and for a while
you're at least trying to play

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nice to have the illusion that
maybe there is something there.

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So, So what?
What happened?

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What?
What were the other

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circumstances?
So it was, it was, it was a

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00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,520
living.
It was, it was purgatory on

224
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,680
Earth.
It was I.

225
00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,200
She was very much trying to get
us to maintain a family.

226
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:06,680
She was trying to get my son to
open back up to her, even though

227
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,200
he was scared of her.
And you know, I, I had made that

228
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,360
executive decision Andy, that I
knew I couldn't be around abuse

229
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,000
anymore.
It had just hit, you know, it,

230
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,440
it had bottomed out.
It had just, I, I can't have, I

231
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,520
couldn't have my building around
that.

232
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,120
So I ended up putting my condo
up for sale.

233
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,520
And you know, it went, it went
very quickly.

234
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,600
Intermittently, I would meet my
partner there with the baby so I

235
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,200
could, I could see the baby and
that's some time with, with the

236
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,080
baby.
And she really used that as a

237
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,920
leverage point to have time with
me.

238
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,440
Really, it wasn't, it wasn't
about her.

239
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,400
It was just about seeing my
children.

240
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,440
And there was an episode, a
second episode where she knew

241
00:14:54,760 --> 00:15:00,880
that I, I had essentially
established the case against her

242
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:06,000
because I, I, you know, for
custody's sake, I chronicled all

243
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,560
of our history of abuse.
DCF became involved after that

244
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,280
initial incident, Andy, because
there were two children present

245
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,080
in the house when there's a
domestic violence episode and

246
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,680
that automatically triggers a
DCF investigation.

247
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:28,440
So with that, you know, that
unto itself was just from from

248
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,880
me who prides myself on the
voting and being a dedicated

249
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,040
dad.
That was just so foreign to me.

250
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,680
But I obviously I was compliant
and and did everything I needed

251
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,560
to do.
But you know, I was chronicling

252
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,560
everything that had happened to
me in my phone.

253
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,920
There were there were audio
recordings, there were photos of

254
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,040
the abuse.
She had snatched my computer

255
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,080
with a hammer, she had broken my
glasses, she had ruined things

256
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,440
in in the condo, she had
snatched walls, ripped doors off

257
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,920
their hinges, and I had all of
that information on my phone.

258
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,280
In essence destroyed my phone.
He also realized that I had

259
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,560
contacted an ex-boyfriend of
hers who she communicated to me

260
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,440
that she had a physical abusive
relationship with.

261
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,280
Though I did reach out to him
and he was very receptive to me

262
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,320
reaching out.
And he did mention, I mean, they

263
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,720
were young, they were in
college, but he admitted that he

264
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,200
had issues, especially when she
was drinking, which he would

265
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,600
punch him.
What ended up happening was he,

266
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,800
he contacted her following my,
my contact with him.

267
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,400
We were cleaning out.
I had, I had literally the, the

268
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,360
condo had sold.
I was, you know, signing the

269
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,320
purchase and fail at like the IT
was, it was ready to go.

270
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,920
She just had to clean up.
I, I left some stuff for her to

271
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,400
pick up at the condo and I
agreed to to meet her there to

272
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,880
do that.
And what ended up happening was

273
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,079
that was the another fatal
mistake that I made to trust

274
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,960
myself alone with her.
At that point she confronted me

275
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,480
on reaching out to the
ex-boyfriend because he he he he

276
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,560
actually reached out to her and
saying congratulations on your

277
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,119
child there.
I wish you the breath in your

278
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,760
life ahead that she started to
realize that I was building a

279
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,359
case against her and she thought
that the children, our daughter

280
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:34,160
would be taken from her.
Though he we had me arrested

281
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:40,480
again that day.
What ended up happening was she

282
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,040
cornered me.
He knew I would never lay my

283
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,960
hands on her.
And all the all the times, all

284
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:51,080
the horrible nightmares living,
living those back, I would never

285
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,960
lay my hands on her.
And she knew that.

286
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,280
And she would always block the
door for me to be able to exit

287
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,280
because she would have put her
body in front of the door and

288
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,080
not let me leave.
And I was, she had my phone, so

289
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,320
I had no, I, it was no way I
could call anyone.

290
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,120
And so she ended up, I ended up
trying to escape from her.

291
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,360
So I, I, I just ran into the
bathroom.

292
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:23,320
I closed the door, she tried to
pick it down and she, she, after

293
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,160
a few minutes be stopped and she
said, OK, I'm, I'm just going to

294
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:28,680
cool off.
What we need to cool off and

295
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,640
we're just going to go get us
coffees at the Starbucks.

296
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,280
And, and I breathed a sigh of
relief.

297
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,200
I'm like, thank the Lord, I, I
can finally go.

298
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,160
I can finally leave.
I ended up leaving.

299
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,400
I was moving things back to my
tires house.

300
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,840
I was in there and I had to get
everything out of the condo

301
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,040
because the the new resident was
coming in literally the

302
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,120
following week.
So everything has to be out.

303
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,560
There was a walk through
schedule.

304
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,160
So that was an important date to
get everything out.

305
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,160
And I come back from dropping
things off in my tires and

306
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,680
there's five police cars waiting
for me at my condo.

307
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:13,080
And I asked what was going on.
And then they started AU so and

308
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,320
so and I said yes.
And they're like, you're under

309
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:20,120
arrest for domestic violence.
They didn't tell me what I did

310
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,160
or anything like that.
They just literally put me in

311
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:32,360
the car and I was taken again.
And they I, I, it didn't

312
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:36,120
surprise me, Andy it it, it, it
didn't surprise me.

313
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:41,800
It was, it was her attempt at a
desperate like some sort of

314
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,240
redemption against me that some
sort of revenge and did it

315
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,040
against the she was self
abusive.

316
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,520
She admitted this he hurt her,
felt she actually admitted this

317
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,440
to our therapist that we created
self harm.

318
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,280
And she, that was her, that was
her weapon against me.

319
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,920
So the first time you were
arrested, were you just released

320
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,080
the next day?
Yes, I had no record, Yeah.

321
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,720
Right.
So you arrested again, is it the

322
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,480
same experience you arrested a
second time?

323
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,720
Is it they just take you in,
book you and let you go?

324
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,800
It's a little bit more serious
because keeping in mind it was,

325
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,760
it was about two months between
the 1st and 2nd Instagram, they

326
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,680
let's just say the bail was
significantly higher and it was

327
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:37,880
far more serious because this
time around he wasn't on my

328
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,280
side.
The second time around, he

329
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,120
wanted me to go away.
He realized that the

330
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,400
relationship was over and he had
stated that if we weren't

331
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,400
together, he was going to ruin
my life and do it well in our

332
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,360
way of doing that.
Yeah.

333
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,280
How was the rest of your life
impacted this point?

334
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,080
Was this in the news that local
paper?

335
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,720
Does it affect you at work?
Oh sure.

336
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,280
I did though.
I, so coming out of that, that

337
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,440
second quarter appearance, I, I
had AGPS bracelet where I was

338
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:19,400
allowed to go to work and you
know, I was, it was essentially

339
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,800
AGPS bracelet just wasn't
allowed to go where she lives,

340
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,560
where she resides, which I, I
was perfectly OK with.

341
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,560
Obviously it's very humiliating
to have AGPS bracelet when

342
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:34,520
you're out college professor and
you have to try to explain that

343
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,600
to an 8 year old, your 8 year
old child.

344
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,160
I, I, I was, I managed it.
I knew I'd done nothing wrong.

345
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,960
Maybe I was naive to the system
and looking back, of course I

346
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,760
was.
But I had two charges against me

347
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,400
at this time.
I had an ankle, the GPS bracelet

348
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,000
and a restraining order against
me that was issued the second

349
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,200
time.
So the first time the, you know,

350
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,160
she signed a victim impact
statement.

351
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,800
He knew that she was in error.
And if we wanted to try to

352
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,360
maintain a relationship, you
know, and, and win me back, so

353
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:13,520
to speak.
This time around, she knew that

354
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,120
I was building a case against
her.

355
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,960
And then I, I was, I had closed
the door in our relationship.

356
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,680
There was no, I was just
vengeance.

357
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,360
It wasn't, it wasn't trying to
be amicable at all.

358
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:28,920
So with that came, you know, her
in the court, try to get my bail

359
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,400
revoked, try to send me to
prison that second time that

360
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,360
failed, but they did put the GPS
priestly on me.

361
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:40,760
But she got, she got her with
about a month later, she got her

362
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,440
with.
Well, since I had a restraining

363
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,280
order, obviously there's a no
contact order as a result of

364
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,120
that and I had no reason to
contact her.

365
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:55,280
I in fact, I, I had wish she had
disappeared from my life well in

366
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,080
advance of this.
You know, the unfortunate

367
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,680
reality is that that child's the
real victim and all of this.

368
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,240
But you know, it was, it was a
it was like, remember it clear

369
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,800
as day.
It was, it was right.

370
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,600
The Thursday night going into a
Friday morning and the, the

371
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:19,320
police show up at my door and
communicate that there was

372
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,480
contact between me and her, that
I initiated some contact.

373
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,440
And like I they, so they, they,
they took me.

374
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:40,000
They took me and I spent 72 days
in prison. 72 days.

375
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,040
Wow.
The the story continues.

376
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:50,600
But I, I had no, I didn't, I
didn't, I did not do that.

377
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,040
I, she literally provided 0
evidence to the police.

378
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,240
But you know, because I had
those two charges against me,

379
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,800
your, I think you're viewed
through the eyes of, you know,

380
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,200
law enforcement as a criminal,
as a, as a thug, as someone that

381
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,000
is a woman abused as women.
And that was none of those

382
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,680
things.
But at the end of the day, I was

383
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,920
the one who was taken away.
I spent 72 days in prison.

384
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,800
I obviously lost my job.
I, I received my resignation

385
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:29,040
letter from my university in the
mail at the jail that insulted

386
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,760
injury.
It was, it was I, it was, it was

387
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,080
still real.
I, I had, that was still real.

388
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,560
That's the only way to explain
that as someone that the only

389
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,120
time I've ever stepped foot in
the jail was, you know, for a

390
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:46,720
sociology class and in high
school to do an observation.

391
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,160
What was the most shocking part
of this?

392
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,400
Is it the the actions of your
abuser or was it more the

393
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,280
actions of the legal system?
Yeah, I think that's a great

394
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,040
question.
I think that she was allowed to

395
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,360
use the law, the legal system
against me.

396
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,040
She was usually, she was able to
get gain her vengeance against

397
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,160
me by abusing the system and it
was allowed.

398
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:18,560
There was literally no evidence
that I had ever done any of the

399
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:24,520
things that I was accused of
doing. 0 And here I am at that

400
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,320
point having three charges
against me who do my thickest

401
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,520
assault and batteries and a
violation of a restraining

402
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,840
order, none of which I had
committed.

403
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,840
And here, here I was, you know,
I'm spreading, you know, two 2

404
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:46,400
1/2 months in prison.
How did you maintain or did you

405
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,280
maintain any sense of hope
during that time?

406
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:55,400
Yeah, it was difficult.
It was I, it was surreal.

407
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,440
So I just embraced it at that
moment.

408
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,000
It was, it was almost like like
a phenomenological study where I

409
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,040
just, I kind of became where I,
I was, became part of the

410
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,160
environment.
And I think that that helped me

411
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,560
accept it at that time as as
difficult as it was.

412
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,240
And, you know, I actually made a
lot of friends there.

413
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:23,400
I, you know, they a lot of
advocates, you know, when, when

414
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,080
I was able to scare what had
happened to me and why I was

415
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,480
there and you know, they, they
called me the professor.

416
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,600
They gave me like I had some St.
cred there, you know, so it was

417
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,280
I, I just, I had to make the
best of it.

418
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,240
And I the only thing that really
kept me going were, you know,

419
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,400
the notes from like my now
partner and my son and my

420
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,120
family.
That that that's what kept me

421
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:53,440
motivating, motivated and as
foreign as the place that that

422
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,480
was to me.
You know, my friends to this day

423
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:03,840
still can't believe that I was
there based on who I am.

424
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,880
And but at the same it happened.
It happened as a result of this

425
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,520
current system and the way that
it can be manipulated.

426
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,840
So you're in prison, 3 charges
against you.

427
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,120
I know you end up with more
charges against you.

428
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:23,200
So so how?
How do those unfold?

429
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,400
Yeah, so while I was in prison,
I got slapped with another

430
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:34,920
charge.
I had a, a Courier show up with

431
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,600
a, a letter saying that I've had
an intimidation of a witness

432
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:48,000
charge against me that I tried
to intimidate the part, her

433
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,720
alleged witness trying to coerce
her.

434
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,840
I guess allegedly it was for the
victim impact statement that I

435
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,400
coerced her into signing that
and the police were I guess

436
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,600
believed her.
I, I don't know how that works

437
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,040
and I, I don't know how that
that's a very serious charge

438
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,040
actually.
So without any evidence, I don't

439
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,440
know how they, they were able to
just slap that charge on me.

440
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,920
So while I was just sitting
there in, in the penitentiary, I

441
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,000
got slapped at the 4th charge.
So might as well add another one

442
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,080
to the plate.
I finally got out.

443
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:34,640
I finally got out house arrest,
no job and leave and leave the

444
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,200
house.
Have, you know, an 8 year old

445
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,960
child, right Co parent, have,
you know, split custody with,

446
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,760
you know, I, it was a year, a
year of a year of house arrest.

447
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,320
So 72 days in prison followed by
a year of house arrest wearing

448
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,880
an ankle monitor.
You know, yes, you're allowed to

449
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,520
leave if you get a job, but I, I
had four charges against me.

450
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:09,040
How can I get a job and addition
to that, I I had there were

451
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,880
there were some, you know,
there's some flexibility with

452
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,080
being able to when you're a
parent to be able to drop off or

453
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,200
pick up your child to school,
which of course I wanted to do.

454
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:29,720
However, the the ex partner when
I when I I had I literally had a

455
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:35,400
a meeting with the court in my
the virtual meeting with a judge

456
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,600
in my attorney.
She blocked me from being able

457
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,360
to drop off and pick up my son
from school and saying that our

458
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,360
daughter had a pediatric dentist
within 500 yards of the school

459
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,200
and I would know exactly when
she would be there.

460
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,960
And she was scared and
threatened by me.

461
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,280
So the judge granted didn't
grant me the ability to pick up

462
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,040
my child.
So I was literally housebound.

463
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,800
I couldn't leave.
It was that that was more

464
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,120
painful than actually the 72
days in prison, not being able

465
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,440
to provide for your child.
Like, you know, I, I'm a, I'm an

466
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,040
active person.
I'm a marathoner.

467
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,640
I, I, you know, I run like 50 to
60 miles a week.

468
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,880
I have an ankle monitor on, you
know, I, I can't work on it was,

469
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,640
it was very, it was a very
trying time.

470
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:34,000
Did you have any advocates,
people you could, you know, lean

471
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,640
on during this time?
Because I I can't imagine the

472
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,560
frustration of knowing you've
done anything wrong, but the

473
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,640
entire system says otherwise.
Correct.

474
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:48,200
Yeah, I mean, my, my, my best
friend's a a like a, a Boston

475
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,920
police Lieutenant.
And he he, he couldn't he

476
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,720
couldn't even believe it.
But the end of the day, yes, I,

477
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:01,840
I, I was blessed to have a very
strong support with, with my, my

478
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,600
family, my parents especially,
and my partner, Lauren and my

479
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,360
son, you know, kept me going on.
They kept me, my spirits up.

480
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,800
It it was, you know, in those,
in those instances, you, you

481
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,280
always need rituals.
You need thing, you need to be

482
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,120
around family.
You need some sort of, you know,

483
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:27,440
because it can go the other way
real quick, I'm sure, But, you

484
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,720
know, just trying to be
resilient.

485
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,520
You know, I, as someone that
reads a lot, I write a lot.

486
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:37,360
I, I, and started journaling,
kind of capturing what am I

487
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,960
feeling, what I'm experiencing.
I, I started my own company at

488
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,520
that point, you know, with kind
of thinking forward Andy,

489
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,640
thinking that at some point I,
I, I really need to be able to,

490
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,360
to help others because this is
honestly such a trying time.

491
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,280
And I, and it was just
unfathomable based on the fact

492
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,720
that I committed no crime and
some individual that just was

493
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,120
vengeful that I didn't want to
be with her, was able to use the

494
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,640
system to penalize me in such a
way that it crippled me, you

495
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,400
know, financially.
I, I lose my job, I, I can't

496
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,560
work, I, I can't be a dad, I
can't coach, I can't, I can't be

497
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,040
social.
I everything, you know, every

498
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,440
element, every bucket of life
other than like family was taken

499
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,960
away.
But you know, interestingly, it

500
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,560
was while I was on house arrest
that I got my 5th charge.

501
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,000
So I didn't even have to leave
the house for this one.

502
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,920
And you know that police show up
again in the middle of the

503
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,680
night.
It was, you know, ironically, a

504
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,360
Friday night.
And this individual understands

505
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,320
that if you're detained on a on
a Friday night, you're sitting

506
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,600
in, in detention in a prison in
a cow until Monday morning when

507
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,680
the courts open.
So again, strategically planned

508
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:10,040
this, this individual set up a,
a false snapshot account and

509
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,080
indicated that I had
communicated to her via Snapchat

510
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,560
instead of, of distorted image
of my, my child to her.

511
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,640
And that's allegedly what she
showed the police.

512
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,720
And they took that as evidence
enough that I should be detained

513
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,400
and slapped with a charge, which
was the second violation of her

514
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,120
restraining order.
So that was the 5th and final

515
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,920
charge.
And I spent three nights, three

516
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,440
nights.
Fortunately, my attorney is very

517
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,880
good and is a friend to this day
because I've spent so much time

518
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,200
with him.
But he said there's no way that

519
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,080
this happened.
We got a tech expert involved

520
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,280
there.
There was just, there was just

521
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,680
no way.
There was literally no way that

522
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,960
it came from my phone.
I mean, none of these things

523
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,640
came from my phone.
It was scanned by a, you know,

524
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,360
FBI, former FBI agent that has
specialized in the logistics and

525
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,400
information systems.
And they scan my phone.

526
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,080
None of it on my phone.
So you got 5 charges against you

527
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,320
and you're really it it it feels
like you're up against a

528
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,040
criminal mastermind who knows
the system knows how to use it

529
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,880
strategically to inflict the
most pain onto you.

530
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:31,199
How is there finally resolution
and and clearing of charges when

531
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,000
it is just a a a she said he
said situation?

532
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,880
Yeah, it was a it was a gradual
process, you know, and you know

533
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,440
the whole saying with the wheels
of justice, while they do turn

534
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:47,760
very slow, that's for sure.
So the, the D as office

535
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,280
dismissed those, those two
alleged restraining order

536
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,960
violations.
There was no evidence, she

537
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,600
couldn't produce any evidence.
So they they just dismissed

538
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,640
those.
And then I had to go through

539
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:05,800
trial on the other guardian site
1 by 1 and the jury found me not

540
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,040
guilty on all.
I think I'm a pretty credible

541
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,800
person because I've never
committed a crime and ultimately

542
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,560
I was cleared of all, all
charges.

543
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,640
It it took a long time.
The the irony between behind the

544
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,640
last charge, which was very
recent, is that I left court

545
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:32,520
that day and the criminal
mastermind stalked me and

546
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,440
literally knows where I live,
knows what kind of car I drive.

547
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,440
I know that she's been having me
followed because it's been, it's

548
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,200
been mentioned in probate court
because I'm trying to gain

549
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,360
custody of some custody of my
daughter.

550
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,040
And it's been communicated that
she's been having these

551
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,040
followed.
So she knows where I live.

552
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,480
She knows pretty much some
information about me that I

553
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,480
don't know about her because I
really don't care.

554
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,440
I just want to eradicate her for
my life.

555
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,520
But that particular day, it was
very recent.

556
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:16,000
He he called the police and said
that I had violated the

557
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,720
restraining order that I was So
that one, one nugget of

558
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:24,320
information that I should
communicate is that I do have

559
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,320
currently a civil ending matter,
which is the final restraining

560
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,160
order that hasn't It was
extended last May and it expires

561
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,480
after a year.
So that hasn't been, even though

562
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,200
all criminal matters have been
have been absolved that that's

563
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:47,040
still the one tending charge.
So he ended up calling the

564
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:53,120
police and saying that I was
following her and he was, he has

565
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,880
no reason to be in the town
where I live.

566
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,000
Literally the court is 5 minutes
from courthouse, is 5 minutes

567
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,840
from where Ira died.
And he was sitting out waiting

568
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,840
for me to to get home.
And she called the police and

569
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,160
said that I was I was following
her, that I was stalking her and

570
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,000
they came to the door.
My poor son was here, he was

571
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,760
very concerned and scared
because he's been around when

572
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,120
the police have come and taken
me, you know, and that that will

573
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,600
never leave me that, you know,
he's a wonderful young boy and

574
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,240
he you know, he's very
Brazilian.

575
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:32,120
We have a great relationship,
but just the fact that something

576
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,280
so serious like a, a charge like
that and just be taken.

577
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,800
So again, it's the criminal
mastermind.

578
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,600
But fortunately I got my lawyer
on the phone.

579
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,040
He explained that I, I left the
court with him.

580
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,840
We drove around and we were
going to go celebrate.

581
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,320
That was the 5th and final
charge.

582
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,320
That was that.
That's 4 long years of my life

583
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,440
that have been in and out of the
courts, in and out of the

584
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,840
system.
And it's been, it's been really

585
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,440
a long battle and it was time to
celebrate.

586
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,600
Instead, I was again in fear
that I was going to be taken

587
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,520
again, lose my job.
It was, it was just, it was, I

588
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,760
almost had a panic attack.
Unfortunately, the police did

589
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,200
the right thing at that time.
They listened to me, they

590
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,440
listened to my lawyer and they
realized that it was not a

591
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,240
credible story.
I wish they had done that, that,

592
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,840
that diligence the previous
times, but fortunately, you know

593
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,000
that.
Yeah.

594
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,600
But that just speaks to the
character of this individual.

595
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,520
It's it, it's just, it's still
ongoing.

596
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:45,320
And it I, I don't understand.
I don't, I don't understand it,

597
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,160
quite frankly.
I.

598
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:53,760
I believe if I was in a similar
situation I would really be

599
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,840
interested in revenge getting
back.

600
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,680
Did you consider charges against
her or civil suits or anything

601
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,160
like that?
Or is that just beyond your

602
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,560
personality?
That's a great question.

603
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,240
And don't think that I don't
spend a lot of my time thinking

604
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:12,040
about that.
You know, I, I, I do believe

605
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,640
that life has a way of, of
working itself out.

606
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,080
You know, I think for me, the
best form of revenge I can have

607
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:25,600
is just like being successful
and by sharing my story, by

608
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,000
being able to help others that
may be impacted.

609
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,240
You know, obviously this is a
hard story to duplicate, but I

610
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:36,000
know that there's others out
there that are, are, are faced

611
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,920
with situations with their
falsely accused of things and it

612
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,920
can be debilitating to your
life.

613
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,400
And that's why I, I really want
to dedicate, you know, I, I, I'm

614
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,200
an educator and coach at heart.
It's something that I love to

615
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:50,520
do.
I've been doing it, you know,

616
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,920
essentially my entire career.
And you know, I want I want to

617
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,440
be able to continue to do that.
And I think that will give me

618
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:04,360
personal stylist.
I think that will give me, you

619
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,880
know, the ability to look look
back on all of all of this that

620
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,240
I've been to already.
And my family and the closest to

621
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:12,960
me, they've been a part of this
as well.

622
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,800
And that's not lost on me, but
you know, I think being able to

623
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,880
really communicate.
The story share my story the

624
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:29,760
messaging and the being able to
help others is is the best way

625
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:36,160
to to have revenge.
With the gift of hindsight, is

626
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,600
there something you wish you
knew back at the start?

627
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,200
Is there 1 action that really
would have made something

628
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,840
different for you?
Yeah, it's the first signs of

629
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,280
abuse.
Obviously abuse looks comes in

630
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,520
many forms and looks a little
bit differently depending on the

631
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,520
circumstance.
But the the physical abuse, once

632
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:06,600
it starts, it continues.
And in hindsight, that's, that's

633
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,160
where, especially when you have
children in the household,

634
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:16,040
especially that's, that's where
I, I, I wish I had just realized

635
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,000
that I couldn't help this
person, the only person that

636
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,960
could help her with herself and
she's chose not to do that.

637
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,240
What was the biggest challenge
in not just rebuilding your

638
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:32,200
life, rebuilding your sense of
self and you know, being able to

639
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,000
trust another person the rest of
your life.

640
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:35,840
What?
What's the biggest challenge in

641
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,160
that?
It's been huge.

642
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,360
You know, like I said,
fortunately I have amazing

643
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,080
people around me.
That amazing family, they keep

644
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,960
me going, amazing friends and
they know me to the core and

645
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,640
have kept me.
But it, it's tough.

646
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,080
I mean, I've been crippled in so
many ways.

647
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,080
You know, I fortunately my
career path is, is back on

648
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,000
track, but it was sidetracked
for many years and and that's

649
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,680
something that that's my
livelihood.

650
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,960
I worked very hard to attain a
certain place.

651
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,840
And when that's taken from you,
it it's it's hard to, it's hard

652
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,520
to, it's hard, it's hard to
digest.

653
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,840
You know the ability when you
have criminal charges, you can't

654
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,480
do things like code things that
I love to do.

655
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,240
And that was that was really
trying for me.

656
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,480
Yell my child saying dare I?
Can you coach?

657
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,400
Can you coach?
Can you coach up my team here?

658
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,240
It's, it's humiliating, it's
public humiliation.

659
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:41,440
Unfortunately, a lot, not many
people know what have happened

660
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,040
to me and my like outside of my
close circles.

661
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:51,040
So I have not been liberal with
sharing my story, but I do think

662
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,440
that my confidence, it was, was
really destroyed for quite a

663
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,640
long time in my belief and in
the system.

664
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,240
You know, when I've, I've always
tried to be someone that has

665
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:03,760
done things the right way,
treated people with kindness and

666
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,640
respect, and I'll continue to
live that way.

667
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,080
I never, I never stopped being
that person.

668
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,000
But at the same time, it's
question that, you know, that

669
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,960
whole adage of, you know, bad
things can happen to good

670
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,480
people.
It, it, it's, you know, I feel

671
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,320
blessed like there's, there's
people in lights that have worse

672
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,480
off situations with terminal
illnesses and I feel blessed for

673
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,160
what I have.
But at the same time, it's been

674
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,040
the, the journey's been very
trying.

675
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,960
I, I feel sick every time I
think about a courtroom.

676
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,960
It's just, it's just so foreign
for me.

677
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:42,080
It's not.
And I think it's given me some

678
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,400
it, it's definitely made me a
smarter person.

679
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:53,560
But at the same time, it, it was
a very challenging journey.

680
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,520
And you, you feel alone a lot in
that journey.

681
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,560
You feel helpless because it's,
it's, it's a criminal justice

682
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,200
system.
And with that there's, there's

683
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,480
records, there is public, public
records.

684
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,560
And it's just very humiliating.
I think that personal

685
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,520
humiliation is not how the
character of who I am and I want

686
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:18,880
to be represented to the
general.

687
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:25,800
Public I I meet many men that
have experiences, you know, just

688
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,560
a, a piece of this, a one false
charge against them or A1 bad

689
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:33,400
experience in court and it makes
them so jaded and bitter and

690
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,120
really decide that all women are
evil and just just they just

691
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,880
stay full of hate.
You are not you do not come

692
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,760
across that way at all.
So what has helped you the most

693
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,920
in regaining your confidence in
in letting you be who you always

694
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,560
were?
You know, I, I, not to go all

695
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,080
spiritual here, but I do think,
you know, believing in a higher

696
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,720
order, I think believing that
the path will be at the right

697
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:04,240
path.
Ultimately, it's just part of

698
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:08,200
the journey.
And you know, I, my, my parents

699
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,920
are, are, you know, religious
people.

700
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,800
I mean, they, they, they believe
in their messaging has always

701
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,240
been, you know, things will work
themselves out.

702
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,240
This is a this, this is part of
what was supposed to happen to

703
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,640
you.
Whether you can make sense of it

704
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,560
now at the time or not, it'll
make sense at some point.

705
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,520
And I've, you know, I've
embraced that notion, Andy,

706
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,720
because I, I don't want to be
known as a bitter person.

707
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:38,680
I don't want to be known as
someone that heals theater that

708
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,760
I feel life too short to live
life that way.

709
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:47,720
I do think that, you know, I
want to be able to promote this

710
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:55,000
what is personal, my personal
voyage like, like to be able to

711
00:45:55,000 --> 00:46:00,320
maybe fix some things that are
wrong and or help people that

712
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,760
are need help.
So, you know, instead of being

713
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,640
saying I'm a victim and I'm
victimized by all this, I'd

714
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,760
rather, I'd rather change that
narrative and they this is

715
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,200
something that happened and I
want to, it's not right and I

716
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,360
want to change it.
From talking earlier, I know

717
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:25,280
that a men's group helped you.
Can you like, how beneficial,

718
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,960
how supportive was that men's
group for you?

719
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,160
Very, I, I thought it was, you
know, because the, again, a lot

720
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,200
of the statistics say that, you
know, most incidents of domestic

721
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,760
violence are, are, are men
against women, which is

722
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,120
factually accurate.
But you know, Anne Silver's, our

723
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:48,480
friend Anne has dedicated a lot
of her, her work to highlighting

724
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,080
that it, it goes both ways.
It's not just abuse of men

725
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,360
against women.
And, and of course the Me Too

726
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,920
movement didn't kind of help
that.

727
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,680
But at the same time, there,
there's plenty of incident

728
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:08,840
incidents where females abuse
men, but law enforcement doesn't

729
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,560
believe that.
And so I, you know, I think that

730
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,640
there's, it's a flawed system.
I think training, you know,

731
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,520
maybe law enforcement training
could be feeling how to handle

732
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,200
certain situations instead of
just, you know, I've met with

733
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,800
law enforcement, the I've met
with a lot of them and, and

734
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,560
they've, they, they acknowledge
that it, it's not, it's a flawed

735
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,160
system.
It's, you know, say it's, if we

736
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,680
show up and this is this, then
we have to do this.

737
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:45,800
And I, I, I understand it's a,
there's a larger, you know,

738
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:53,880
global conversation on that, but
it, it's just the, the men's

739
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,000
group helps you, you talk about
these situations and realize

740
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,560
that you're not alone, that
there are other individuals out

741
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,480
there that it's, it's not just
men versus women or women versus

742
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:06,880
men.
It's just, it's just domestic

743
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,560
violence in general.
And that how can we stop that?

744
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,400
So the group I was was with was
part of a coalition against

745
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:20,520
domestic violence and finding
initiatives and ways to, you

746
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,280
know, engage and talk about
things like talk, talk

747
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,320
masculinity and things of that
sort.

748
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,440
Kind of dissolving some of the
notions that, you know, men.

749
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,920
Men are always the perpetrators
of these, you know, incidents.

750
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,480
But it's just simply not the
case though, right?

751
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,040
Yeah, unfortunately people abuse
people.

752
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,120
Any type of person, the gender,
age, it doesn't really matter.

753
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,920
But yeah, you know, I don't know
if it's society, popular culture

754
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,600
slanted that it's always just
One Direction.

755
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,640
Absolutely.
To follow that, like, what do

756
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,400
you think the stigma around men
being victims of physical abuse,

757
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,040
what what do you think that's
rooted in?

758
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,760
That's a great question.
I don't know if I can give a

759
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,000
profound answer.
You know, I, I think that a lot

760
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,560
of men don't want to admit that
they've been a victim of

761
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,520
domestic abuse.
That, that that's first and

762
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,040
foremost, I just, I've never
been around abuse.

763
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,640
I've never been around physical
violence, though.

764
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,080
It was just so foreign to me
that, you know, you asked about

765
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,560
the hindsight question.
I, I naturally, I wanted to help

766
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:38,280
someone versus run from them.
And that's the message in that I

767
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,160
would employ, you know, moving
forward to anyone that I would

768
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,120
talk to you.
You don't, you can't, like they

769
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:49,400
say, don't stick around, right?
If it happens once, it's going

770
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,720
to happen again.
And, and I now I know, I know, I

771
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:57,600
know it's not just rhetoric,
it's, you know, it, it's so

772
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,200
it's, it's something that is a
serious issue that, you know, it

773
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,800
happens in a household.
It doesn't happen out in public

774
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,280
for the most part.
I mean, so it's very private.

775
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,120
And, you know, from in my
instance, you know, it's, you

776
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,440
know, I was, I was the one that
was the victim, but yet he

777
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,240
procreate herself as the as the
victim, you know, and, and every

778
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:27,400
opportunity and, and everyone
believed her that that's that's

779
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,560
where I I find fault and flaw
in, in our system, in our

780
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,880
current system, when all I was
trying to do Andy was protect my

781
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,960
child.
And that set up a stereo to the

782
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:44,320
event that really ruined my
life, quite frankly, and really

783
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,960
put my life on hold and had to
rebuild in every possible way

784
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,360
for, you know, still working
through it.

785
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,600
So.
Patrick, you did mention, you

786
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,680
know, just feeling that cringe
in your in your guts think about

787
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:58,880
a courtroom or anything like
that.

788
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,280
Do you still have fear and
anxiety related to your ex?

789
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,800
Absolutely.
Yeah.

790
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,520
It's it it, it's like a
paranoia.

791
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,920
How do you how do you deal with
that and how do you keep that

792
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,040
from spreading to all potential
partners?

793
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:24,320
It's, it's certainly not easy,
you know, because it's everyone

794
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:30,240
in my household now is, is aware
of this individual and is aware

795
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,880
of what she's capable of in a
sense.

796
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,280
And I, I don't, you know, I, I
don't know how it, how it ends.

797
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,160
I, I don't, I don't know how it
ends.

798
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,480
I, I simply don't.
But I can't worry about all I

799
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,720
can do is worry about how I
control myself, how I treat

800
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:52,200
others and how I move forward.
But I do think that, you know,

801
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,960
I've thought about moving.
We're going out of state.

802
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,360
Honestly, I don't want her to
know any anything about me.

803
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,000
I don't want to get her to know
where I work, where I live.

804
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,760
She knows all those things.
And because she hasn't followed

805
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,040
still to this day, and I have
no, I have no idea what her

806
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,400
motives are.
I really don't.

807
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,280
She's already taken so much for
me.

808
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,640
So I I don't know where where
her end game is or what her end

809
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,040
game is.
Is there anything top of mind

810
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,120
ways that you wish society in
the legal system could better

811
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:27,680
support male victims?
Yeah, I do.

812
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,640
You know, I wished again, I
wished I had a more profound

813
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,760
answer, but I I just think that
the way that things compounded

814
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:39,280
so quickly without any sort of
like conversation, you know, our

815
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,120
understanding from where my my
vantage point, it was just this

816
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,480
happened.
OK, We believe it, this

817
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,360
happened.
OK, we believe it that and there

818
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:52,440
was literally 0 evidence the the
the police cannot provide.

819
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,920
They provided 0 evidence.
And in fact, when even in one of

820
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:01,040
the the cases where the police
testified in court, an officer

821
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,360
he he he fumble around, he had
no idea.

822
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,280
Like he, he realized it was
probably an error.

823
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,160
Like, you know, based on the,
the questioning from from my

824
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,800
attorney at the time, there was
literally no, no tact to see

825
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,360
anything.
There was, there was 0

826
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,240
repercussions.
It was just book, yeah, well,

827
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:24,400
book them.
So I think, I, I do think that

828
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:29,920
needs to be far more education
and how charges can destroy

829
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,720
someone's life.
Something so serious that isn't

830
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:35,080
even really investigated.
There's there's no evidence.

831
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,640
It's just Yep, OK, sure.
But let's the the courts handle

832
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,720
it.
And that's pretty much what

833
00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:45,960
happened.
It's like, OK, well, we just did

834
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,720
our job, but now let's pass it
along, pass the buck along to

835
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,640
the courts and see what they do.
And, and I just think that

836
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,560
that's extremely careless and
reckless.

837
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,160
And I think it's blot in in many
ways.

838
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:03,240
Do you have any advice besides
don't stick around to a man, any

839
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:06,440
other man that finds himself in
in an abusive relationship?

840
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,880
I do, you know, I think that one
of the one of the outcomes of

841
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,920
this in which this individual
told me that he, she had

842
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,880
targeted me.
We were friends prior to being

843
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:24,200
in a, in a, in a relationship.
It was just an acquaintance, but

844
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,360
she knew he saw how I treated
others.

845
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,880
She saw how I was a dad to my
son, how kind I was.

846
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:37,720
And he he admitted that she
targeted me, that he said, you

847
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:42,320
know, I, I, I baby trapped you.
He said, I, this is one thing

848
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,640
that I didn't explore with you
in our conversation.

849
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,400
But she mentioned that when we
first were in a relationship,

850
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,440
you know, when we evolved from
friends into, you know, a

851
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,920
relationship, that she wanted to
have a baby with me, that she

852
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,200
didn't care if we were ever
married, but she wanted someone

853
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,920
with my looks and my smarts in
the way that I was.

854
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:08,520
So she, she was so from the get
go, she lied.

855
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,280
And so I think that people are
targets.

856
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,280
They may not know it or not, but
if you are successful, if you

857
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,560
are, you know, I, I specifically
think of young men who, you

858
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,520
know, I work a lot in the, the
sports base and I think about,

859
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,640
you know, college athletes and
now that they're millionaires,

860
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,960
then, you know, with NIL deals.
I, I, I really, a lot of my work

861
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:34,160
is going to be focused on, you
know, alerts like alerting

862
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,840
yourself.
You're a target.

863
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,720
You're a target for a lot of
things.

864
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:45,560
And you see a lot in today's
sports media about allegations

865
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,800
against professional athletes
because they're targets.

866
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,440
So I think if you're a lawyer,
if you're a successful person,

867
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:56,080
you know, you could be a target
and you may not know it.

868
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,240
Patrick, I I wanna thank and
commend you.

869
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:09,040
I know this has been a long
trying journey and your courage

870
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:13,560
and bravery and vulnerability
and speaking openly about it in

871
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,560
the hopes that someone else
doesn't have to go through what

872
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,960
you've gone through.
And that the legal system, how

873
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,240
police investigate things or or
don't you know, just

874
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:26,080
automatically leaving one person
in a split second, helping to

875
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,560
bring some light to all those
issues and bring change.

876
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,720
What's the best way for people
to connect with you or learn

877
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:34,640
more about your coaching or or
what have you?

878
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:36,880
Yeah, I, that's a great
question.

879
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,520
Thank you, Andy.
I mean, connecting via LinkedIn,

880
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,680
I think would, is, would be
amazing.

881
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,080
I can share that with you.
But you know, I do think that

882
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,040
that's the best way that to
communicate.

883
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,840
And in fact, I, you know, I, I,
I want to continue this work and

884
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,840
I want to continue this
messaging and, and being

885
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,920
proactive and in this community
to help, to help men to help the

886
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:04,840
global community at large that
want to discuss this, want to

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00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,080
have some good dialogue about
what's going on.

888
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,600
Awesome.
Again, thanks Patrick for

889
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,320
joining us today.
Thanks everyone for listening to

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00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,480
us.
Please visit realmanfield.org.

891
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,920
We'll have a blog post for this
episode.

892
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,800
We'll have links to various
resources, books, support

893
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,640
mentioned.
Wherever you're discovering Real

894
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,920
Man Field, please subscribe,
follow, like, share this with

895
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:24,440
somebody, post, review or
comment.

896
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,920
And indeed, this is an important
episode to share with someone

897
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,080
that you think might possibly be
in a similar situation like

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00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,240
this, having gone through it or
being in the middle of it.

899
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,120
And if you need more support
around this, I invite you to

900
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,320
book some time with me, visit
theandygrant.com/talk, have a

901
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,280
free clarity call with me, and
we'll see if there's anything I

902
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,080
can offer you other pointers
beyond if if something in this

903
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,760
conversation wasn't enough to
get you to the help you need and

904
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:52,600
deserve, I'm glad to talk to
you.

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00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:56,400
And until next time, be good to
yourself.