Breaking the Stigma of Mental Health | Men Hurt and Can Heal

0:00 Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel. I'm your host, Andy Grant. I'm an author, coach, and healer. Please visit theandygrant.com to learn more about me. Real Men Feel exists to remind men that they are human beings and they have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men aren't having, but that all men can benefit from. You know, sometimes the bravest thing you can do is ask for help. But for men, there's even a stigma around that. My guest today is Laverne Friesen. He is a former first responder who is passionate about raising awareness around the stigma of mental health after experiencing his own mental health crisis. Now, as a transformation coach, Laverne shares the wisdom he gained from his traumatic experiences to help others live fulfilling lives.

0:48 Laverne shares his experience as a sexual abuse survivor in a fundamentalist family who went on to become a police officer and hid his mental health crisis for years. He shares what kept him going, tools that helped him turn his life around, and the three-year old Angel that brought him back from the brink of suicide. Through it all, the stigma of what other people would think about him if they knew how badly he felt kept him quiet. Let's do it. Welcome to real men, Feel a Verne. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Awesome. So we're going to talk about the stigma of mental health and your own journey. And before I do that, I want to like what? What do you how do you define stigma?

1:28 What does that mean to you? It's the fear of how others will perceive you. If you talk about mental health, that's how I experienced it. And is it is the stigma around discussing mental health? Is it the same for all people? Is it different from men and women? Yeah, I think it's a lot stronger for men. We tend to, we've been conditioned over the years to believe that our strength comes with silence and holding our emotions. And so when when our emotions get too much, we're too scared to do anything about it because we we're perceived that we'll be or sorry, we're we're scared that we'll be perceived as weak. Right.

2:16 Yeah, right, women. I'm pretty much yeah. And I don't know about if they're encouraged, but they're at least allowed to have emotions and men kind of aren't supposed to. That has always been my experience. Yes, yes. Cool. So I know from talking to you previously that to put it mildly, you had an interesting childhood. Would you would you like to start start there? Sure. I didn't realize how interesting it was because I thought it was normal for many years. But yeah, I was raised in northern Alberta, Canada, on a farm, and my parents were and still are members of a very fundamentalist religious group.

2:56 Some people would call them a cult. I don't know if I would go that far, but it's very controlling. It's very closed and abuse of all type is rampant there, including sexual abuse, which I experienced. The sexual abuse was always swept under the rug and after I was experienced my first assault, I had brought it forward to my parents and I was told that the church would deal with it, which of course they never did. And by that time everybody in my age group knew who the perpetrator was and had all told their parents.

3:41 And so I was eventually brought back to the same location and the inevitable happened. I was re victimized again. And but during that process, although I didn't realize it until I was 38 years old, I received a very deep abandonment wound from that which surfaced later in life. In addition to all that going on and the very fundamentalist views of the church I belong to, it was continuously Hellfire and brimstone sermons which I began to experience anxiety at a very young age because I was scared of going to hell. I was scared if the world were going to end, I'd, I'd go to hell if or I died, whatever. And I remember many times as soon as you turn about 11 or 12, they begin to pressure you to join their church. And they do that by saying what would happen if you died tonight.

4:39 And so I, I experienced anxiety from a very early age because I was always questioning what would happen if I died or, you know, the world came to a crashing halt or whatever. But in addition to all of that, I had a very abusive mother as well. And I often received violent punishment for things that I had not done. So, oh, I guess made-up or, you know, a rumor that I might have done something and then I got the punishment or I took punishment for my siblings often. And I was the 4th of nine children.

5:20 So it's quite a big family. Anyway, I grew up one day, we're very rural community. And one day when I was probably five or six, I saw a police car drive by with its lights and sirens on. And I ran inside because I was scared because we never saw the police. And my mom told me that the police officer was going to help somebody. So I said, I want to be a police officer. And she said, well, you can't because the church won't allow that. And I said, well, why not? And she said, well, you, you're going to have to carry a gun and you you can't use violence. And I'm like, but they're going to go help people. It, it didn't make any sense. And so that was a long list of contradictions that I experienced in my life with that church. However, from that age forward, I wanted to help people and I wanted, I wanted to be a police officer, but I couldn't tell anybody I wanted to go into law enforcement because it wasn't condoned.

6:18 So I told everybody I wanted to be a paramedic. And so from the age of like five or six, I began start, I started living a public lie because I knew that I wanted to go into law enforcement. But I, I told everybody I was going to go be a paramedic. I moved away as soon as I could. I was 16 when I moved in with an older brother. And then when I was 17, I moved to a, a big city several hours away. That was where I had an aunt lived there and she had never been a part of this church. And so I, I moved in with her and was able to kind of progress from there and grow from there. And so I got a job working in hospital security because I, I've been living this life for so long that even though I knew I wanted to go into law enforcement, I thought maybe I wanted to be a paramedic.

7:12 And so I went to work at a hospital thinking that would, that would kind of maybe solidify my decision. And it was pretty obvious I didn't want to be a paramedic. I didn't want to deal with people that were dying. So I worked towards a career in law enforcement when I was 27. I got into law enforcement my first job and then I I started in Highway Patrol right after that. And when I was in Highway Patrol in my first posting, I joined the Volunteer Fire Department as well. And I was having the time of my life. But what I didn't realize was I was burning my candle at both ends. And what I also didn't realize was my need to serve others was me trying to fulfil an unmet need from my childhood. I was trying to validate myself by helping others. And of course, unless you do the healing work, that's never going to happen.

8:15 During that time, I met Matt, started dating a lady that would eventually become my wife and now ex-wife. And about five years into that, I was starting to burn out. I was in a smaller town. I was, it's still burning my candle at both ends. And I couldn't get a transfer out with my through the Highway Patrol. And I got a phone call from an old acquaintance who offered me a position working as a contractor in the oil and gas industry in northern Canada, much further north than I already was. And it paid a lot of money.

8:57 And on the phone, I told him I would, I would, I would accept it. And he said, well, don't you have to think about this for a while? And I'm like, no, I'm, I'm done. And I was, I was already starting to feel some signs of burnout, but I just thought it was because I couldn't get a transfer or something like that, right? I started contracting, working away from home. I was working away. It was supposed to be two weeks at a time. But when you're a contractor and they need you and they're busy, if they ask you to stay, you kind of have to stay. So someday, you know, some months I'd be working 25 days a month. And it was OK because it was just me and my then fiance. But we had a, our daughter, she was pregnant with her daughter. And once my daughter was born, I didn't like being away from home anymore because she's daddy's girl. And that's just the best gift ever, kind of. And so I, I lasted about another year, year and a half after that.

9:57 And then we got pregnant again with our son. And so I promised her that when I would come home before he was born. So in 2016, I found a, a law enforcement position near where I grew up. And I had sworn that I would never come back. I was happy being away from here, but I, I came back. Our son was born and I thought I was living the best life. I thought I was living the dream because I had a good job, I was married, I had a family and I had a we had, we had a nice house in a newer neighborhood and I was in the best physical shape of my life. So I thought, I thought I was, I had it made. But even though I thought I had it made, every once in a while there'd be that little thought, like maybe there's more to life or you know, what about all that trauma for my childhood? Like, I wonder if that just disappeared. Have I really dealt with that?

10:57 And it's funny that I used to. It's not funny, but it's interesting that I used to think about it, wondering it because it was also almost like a premonition that something was going to happen. And so on Saint Patty's Day 2017 is working a night shift, and I was involved in a traffic stop with probably the most irrational individual that I ever dealt with. But to make matters worse, he posted a picture of me to social media and then he filled the comments with veiled threats towards me. But the worst part about that was, was I had seen his driver's license and I knew where he lived. And he lived right around the corner from me.

11:38 And I'm a very active father. I always have been. And I was scared that I would run into him when I had my children. And I would. And part of my fear was that I would have to run away. I wouldn't be able to defend because my son was like maybe six months old. You can't fight with a, an infant in your arms, right? So, but I, I did what I always had done before and I, I just let time kind of take care of it. I thought that would be OK. And about two months after that incident, I was assigned a project at work that I I didn't think I had the capabilities of completing successfully, but my management team told me that I was the only person that could do it.

12:29 And so that's a ton of stress. I stressed about it all the time and starting into the summer months, anytime I would look for my manager or one of the supervisors that could help me for advice, they always seem to be gone on vacation or somewhere else. And so I started to feel abandoned by them, which is my old childhood wound from when I was nine years old. And I had no idea that this is, but I just felt abandoned and I started getting more stressed out on top of that because I was such or I at that time in my life, I got my validation from externally from how much I could do for, for other people. I would come home and I would give everything of myself at home to be the best parent and father and husband that I could be.

13:23 And I never took any time for myself. I wasn't resting at all. And so my mental health started declining. It started with increased irritability and then eventually anger. And then by October of that year, I would have burst outbursts of rage. I would see red. I would, I would read an e-mail. I'd just absolutely lose it and it would take a couple days for me to calm down. South. Starting at about September, my ex-wife started trying to convince me to go see a therapist and it it took me two months just to get my head wrapped around the idea that I could go see a therapist.

14:04 That's how strong the stigma was. I knew that it was a good idea. I knew that I probably should see one. I knew that I needed help, but I was terrified that anybody would find out that I had had seen one. So in November, I went to see a therapist. And within a few minutes of me walking in the door, she told me I had to take a break from work. She's like, you got to get out of that place for a while. And so I went to my doctor, told him I needed to take time off from work for stress. And he's like, well, how much time do you need? And I'm like, I, I don't know, like, how much time do I need, right? Like I, I didn't have any idea. I hadn't, I was clueless about mental health. So I picked a day three.

14:49 I picked a date three weeks in the future because it was just before a course that I was scheduled to go on. And I really wanted that course. So I came back to work. One of the first things I did was get in a really heated argument with one of my supervisors. I was accused of insubordination, which should have been a huge red flag for anybody that knew me, but but myself as well, because that was not who I was. I've always been very professional and diplomatic. So I just, I came back to work. I didn't feel any differently. I didn't think that anything had changed. I didn't feel any better. I thought about taking another stress leave, but the last one didn't help.

15:29 So why would I take another one, right? I, I continued to see that same therapist, but she didn't understand, I don't believe she understood the stigma that I was under. She didn't understand the first responder world and I was lying to myself about what I was experiencing, but I was also self stigmatizing it as well. So there's no way she could have helped me. And so I kept seeing her once once a month. And even then, I like, I would go see her and I'm like, I don't know if that actually did anything, but that's what you do, right? If you're stressed out, that's what you do. You go see a therapist and whatever, right? Like, that's what I thought.

16:12 That was how I perceived it. In December or January, my shift supervisor left and my management team told me. They said, we're not going to promote it. We're not going to fill that position. But you're the de facto leader. And so there, there I am putting all this stress or this pressure back on myself to be the best that I can be. And I, I'm still not getting validation at home. I still don't think I'm the, the person I need to be at home. And now I'm, I'm definitely not the person I need to be at work. And so I, I just literally exhausting anything I have. And during that time, I was exhausted all the time. I never had free energy ever.

16:56 And so in Alberta, where I'm from, the government has what's called the selective Traffic Enforcement program, and it basically dictates what law enforcement agencies should in focus enforcement on for each month. And so for the month of February, that's distracted driving. Well, I've been a a first responder for, you know, multiple years by this point. And I'd seen a lot of the consequences of distracted driving. And so I rallied my shift and I said, let's focus on distracted driving this month. Anytime we get some extra time, let's let's focus on distracted driving, let's make an impact, let's see what we can do.

17:37 And quite frankly, I was trying to prove to my management team how good of a leader I was because I wanted to them to fill that vacant supervisor spot with someone. And so we did. And so now is basically no free time at work because anytime there's free time, I'm out trying to find people, you know, driving distracted. And about halfway through that month, I noticed that I started feeling off and I couldn't, I couldn't put my finger on it, but I felt off and I felt everyone that I dealt with was abrasive and in law enforcement like, or for me, 'cause I've, I've always been pretty chill and relaxed.

18:24 You know, it's a small number of people that I would get Flack from, but for whatever reason, it seemed like everybody I talked to was just like argumentative and yelling whatever. And so my focus shifted to just making it to the end of the month. That was my goal. I just want to get out of this month. And then I like then I don't, I don't know what, but I, that's my goal. And when March 1st hit, I had nothing left. I was completely drained. I was apathetic and all I started doing was driving around all day and drinking coffee. That's all I did at work. I wasn't taking calls anymore, doing anything. Nothing proactive I would sit for. I would go park in a parking lot and just sit for hours and do nothing.

19:09 Like look at my phone or whatever, stare blindly at traffic. Just. I was a zombie and it soon became difficult for me to sleep at night. Before my work shifts, I couldn't sleep. I would, I hated my job. And then I started hating my life at home as well. And I would lay in bed and I would just ruminate about how horrible my life was and I I couldn't sleep. And so I started taking sleep aids, though I was taking up to five times the recommended dose of a sleep aid and the most I could get out of that was two hours of sleep a night.

19:51 So I would either fall asleep and then I would wake up later and then spend the rest of the night awake, or I would fall asleep at some point in the night for, you know, an hour and a half to two hours. That was, that was the Max I could get. And my world started closing in around me. And it's hard to describe unless you've been there, but it feels like you're being swallowed by this cloud of black and everything just closes in. And I I started losing. Emotions. There was a point at that time, my son was, you know, a year, year and a half old. And he was, I was sitting on the couch and he's looking up at me and he's tugging on my pant leg And he's like daddy, daddy, daddy.

20:38 And he has his big smile on his face. And I kind of looked at him and I, I didn't feel anything. And I'm like, I think I'm supposed to be happy right now. I think I'm supposed to be enjoying this, but I didn't. And as it got worse, I was too scared to speak up because I was terrified of, of how I would be perceived. I knew that I was a leader in my department and I didn't want to come across as weak. And so I, I couldn't say anything or that's how I felt. And it wasn't long before I began believing that the only way out of this pain was to end my life. That was that was my out.

21:23 And so every night while I couldn't sleep, I'd be laying in bed thinking about how I was going to end my life and walking myself through the through my plan. Because by that time I had a very, I knew exactly how it was going to look and what would happen. And but I was saved by a three-year old Angel. My daughter was three years old and she had been sleeping in her own bed. And every night during that time, she would wake up and she would come to my bed and she would always come to me. And she would tuck her head, her little head right into my armpit and she would get as close to me as she possibly could. And so as I would be laying there planning out my own demise, I would feel her body and I would listen to her breathing.

22:16 And I knew that I had to find a way to get through this. And I didn't know how. I had no idea how. And in my career, I've worked with some amazing people that are in peer support and very supportive individuals. And they'd always told me, they said if you ever need help, just reach out anytime, any place, anywhere, reach out for help. And the closest I ever came as I started to type out a text message at 3:00 in the morning and then I deleted it and I never sent anything to him. And I know for a fact that man would have helped me and he would talk me through that.

22:56 I know that for a fact. And I always, I've always asked myself why I never asked, never reached out. And I believe what it is, is in the, the, the throes of my despair and, and depression, I didn't know for 100% certainty that he was safe because I'd never heard his story. And that's why I tell my story so graphically, because if somebody is suffering, I want them to know that I get it. There's no doubt I get it. So I, I, I was, I'd never sent that text message. I was desperate.

23:37 I didn't know what to do. But there was one person in my life that I thought could probably help me and probably would help me. And so I told that person how bad it was, or I tried to tell them how bad it was, and my message wasn't received. And because of the shame I was experiencing and the shame that I'd experienced my whole life from my sexual assault, from never being good enough for anybody, I blamed myself for not being able to communicate how bad it was. But a few days later, in a last ditch, desperate attempt, I went back to that person and I made it pretty clear where I was. I made it crystal clear where I was. And they looked me in the eye and they said I know. And then they walked out of the room and I know alone. I, I know what that feels like.

24:37 And it's a horrible place to be. And I had no idea. I had absolutely no idea how I was going to stay alive. And I, I, I, I was clueless. But every night my daughter would be right beside me. And every night I knew that I had to get through this somehow. And during this time I had been approved for a instructors course in Colorado. And so my, my department flew me down to the United States and I, I took a seven day course in Colorado and I should have had the time of my life. And I enjoyed the first three or four days. And then I started dreading coming back to work. And I was, I, I didn't want to come home. I didn't want to come back to work my life like it was just that bad.

25:30 I, I was in this place of constant dread. And so I came back to work and, and about a less than a week after I came back, I encountered a firefighter that I knew I'd never worked with him. I just encountered him professionally on occasion. We hadn't even worked in the same area before, so we just encountered each other a few times. We had mutual friends and we chatted for about two hours. And I don't know, I don't believe he knew that I was experiencing a mental health crisis. But just that conversation and that connection gave me some hope. Again, I had just this glimmer of hope that maybe I could be OK, maybe I could find a way out.

26:17 And within a couple of weeks of that, neighboring agency hire posted a position for one person. I applied for it and I somehow got it. And to this day, I still don't know how. But I just think it shows you how how well we can hide ourselves or hide what we're going through. And I, I need to backtrack here a bit because I wasn't hiding it very good at my workplace. I was constantly screaming for help inside. I was constantly screaming for somebody to ask me if I was OK. I thought by doing nothing that it would get somebody else's attention and apparently it didn't. I thought by yelling at my supervisors in the office that it would get somebody's attention and it didn't. And I remember one time there was 3 managers and about five or six Co workers in the office and I yelled at them and I said I can't do this anymore.

27:19 This is all bullshit and if you guess zero you're correct. But that's how many people reached out to see if I was OK, and they were either didn't care or were too scared at what they would find out. Again, anger is what men are allowed to feel. So someone being angry, well, that makes sense. And they don't. And, but yeah, probably they don't want to go further. They don't want to know if there's something else. Yeah, And that was not who I was. Like, I, you know, I expressed frustration, but like raising my voice to superior officers in public. That's, that's a big red flag or it should have been.

28:03 There was some other stuff happening. And as is often the case when somebody experiences declining mental health, there's other issues in the workplace. And so myself and two other people tried to make a difference, tried to improve the workplace. And as part of my, I'm going to make this place better because I don't know what else I'm going to do. We filed a complaint, which was found to be justified, but I began to fear for my safety, my personal safety. And so then I had to get the union involved. And I had always been taken advantage of by management because I wasn't a union guy. I wasn't one of the union guys, and they always told me that. And so in hindsight, I could see I was taking advantage of it. So I had to file this union complaint because that was my last ditch effort because I'm trying to save my job, which would eventually I equated to me saving my life. That's how I was going to save my life is to make the workplace bearable again.

29:11 And so we had this big meeting. There was HR there, there was management there, and there was the union there. And they asked me what the matter was, even though it was crystal clear in the complaint. And I started crying. I didn't know most of the people in the room and I wept like a baby. So I left the room, I came back and now I was angry and hostile and I laid it out for them. And then I left. And it was, you know, a couple weeks after that that I, I gave my resignation notice. And when I gave my resignation notice, my manager, who had been the brunt of some of my outbursts, had been in that meeting, comes up to me and he tells me we've just kind of left you alone. Like you've done the worst thing that you could have done is leave me alone.

30:05 Are you going to, were you going to get up at my funeral and tell my family and friends and Co workers that you just left me alone? Like is, you know, like anyway, that's a whole other topic on its own. So I started my new job, new position. And so now instead of working in a city, I was working in a rural municipality. It was much more relaxing. I was able to drive around, enjoy the scenery. I was under less stress, but something still felt off. I didn't feel right. It didn't feel right. And I didn't realize that I'd suffered or experienced psychological injury. I just, I just knew something quite wasn't quite right. So a couple of months after I started I went on a 10 day Backcountry camping trip with a friend of mine way up the Alaska Highway.

31:00 So I think 4 hours north of the nearest town and then about 16 kilometers which would be about 10 miles straight off into the mountains. This was remote and I thought, I thought this was going to reset my mental health. I thought this was going to be the reset I needed. Well, instead I spent the whole time worrying about bear attacks, right? I didn't, I didn't enjoy the time up there at all. And so I came home and I'm like, man, like I didn't get the reset I needed. Like I, I don't know what's going on. And then a month later and I, I know the date October 30th, 2018. I was the first on scene to a multi vehicle collision on a rural highway.

31:49 And as I pulled up and I got out of my patrol vehicle, this couple comes up to me and they have two kids with them and the kids are crying. They're not injured physically, but they're crying. And as soon as I see them crying, I'm done. I can't talk. I tried talking and then like, I got a big lump in my throat and I was done. And I tried muttering some stuff to them. I don't know what I said, but apparently they were OK with whatever it was. So I went to check on the rest of the vehicles. I found a lady that was trapped in a vehicle and I wanted to help her. I wanted to talk to her, but I couldn't say anything. And in the back seat, there was a girl close to my daughter's age.

32:32 She was crying. And, you know, as a dad, as a parent, I just wanted to comfort her. And I, I couldn't talk to her. I couldn't do it. And so I, I kind of stood back and, you know, pretended I was busy and the fire department got there and I watched the fire department and I knew one of the firefighters and he was running around doing his thing. And I just noticed how poised he was, how professional he was and how he was excelling at his job. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, man, that should be me. Like that's what I, that's who I am. But I'm not today. I'm not that person. And I've, I, I believed that I was broken.

33:14 And so of course I go home, I Google my symptoms, everything that's going on. Never do that doctor. Google is always worst case scenario. But after that shift, I, I found a therapist, a psychologist who specialized in trauma and had a client. I think it said something about first responders. But I, I knew that she was going to help me. And on the day of my first appointment to see her, I cried for the 20 minute drive to get to her office because I knew that I was going to be, I, I was going to get help now. And my appointment was for an hour.

33:54 And I sat and cried in her office for two. And, and somewhere during that session, she reaches over, she puts her hand on my knee and she says, you're not alone. And that was very powerful because I had been alone for almost two years at that point. And I didn't believe under anybody understood me. And even though I understood what she was telling me, I still didn't believe it. And about so I, I embraced therapy. I, I learned about myself. I learned that I, I had to reframe literally all of my thoughts, you know, a, a child abuse survivor or someone experienced, and with all that abuse, I experienced emotional abuse my whole life.

34:43 I had developed a catastrophic thinking style, which was always correct. So it, it has saved me from disappointment. But I, I learned that I needed to like literally change everything about the way I thought. And I, I began to see results almost immediately and I began to feel so much better that I just, I embraced it so much. And about six months later, I went to the courthouse. I was, I was on duty, I was working and go to the courthouse and I see a retired police officer there where he, he saw me first. And as soon as he saw me, he left the group that he was in and he came over to see me and he said, hey, let's talk in this private room. So go in the room and he says, hey, what's going on? And I knew what he meant, but I was still battling stigma. And so I, I feigned ignorance.

35:35 And he says, listen, I have PTSD. I know what you're going through. And and then he told me his story. And that's when I knew I wasn't alone. That's when I absolutely knew 100% that I wasn't alone. And, and the fact that he had, he had approached me just to let me know and share his story was a golden hug from the universe. I, I can't describe the amount of hope that I had after that, that, that he did that. And really all I ever wanted was hope. That's all.

36:21 When you're struggling, you just, you're just trying to get some. And I want to bring up another point. That firefighter at that collision that I watched that I was so that I wished I could be like him again, within a few months of that collision, he died from suicide. And so you just never know who's suffering, how they show it, how fast did it come on? You never know. Probably the while I was in therapy, probably the most profound thing, profound epiphany I had was we started doing EMDR therapy.

37:03 And for those listening who might not know what that is, it's eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, where the process of bringing up basically a old memory with some eye movement, you can reprogram your brain how you remember it. And so my psychologist asked me to what was bothering me the most at that time in my life. I told her, she said, now feel that sensation in your body. And now remember the first time you felt that sensation. And the first time I'd felt that sensation was the second time I'd been sexually abused when I knew it was about to happen and I was screaming for help inside. And I experienced that abandonment wound. And so I was transported back 30 years. And so we did the whole process, the therapy session, It was pretty exhausting.

38:05 I cried a lot. But at the end of it, she asks me now, same name, something good that came of that. And the answer was instantaneous for me. And I told her I'm a better dad because of that instant. And to me, the 38 year old Laverne, that was the most important thing that that I could be, was a, a good dad. And I've, I've switched that now to being the best that I can be because that would translate to me being a good dad or a great dad and that but being able to take the single most traumatic event of my life and switching it to this awesome thing that now I'm a really good dad or a better dad.

38:55 That was profound because I started to look at other aspects of my life and start to make those adjustments. So all the abuse I experienced as a child that kind of shaped me and I kind of liked who I was becoming going through a prolonged mental health crisis to the depths of that I went to and the anxiety I felt, my symptoms were diagnosed as depression, mild to severe, no mild to moderate depression.

39:37 And so if, if mild to moderate depression leads you to like suicidal thoughts and planning a suicide, what the hell does this severe depression lead you to, Right? But so I had, I had the depression, I had the anxiety, I had hostility and I had hyper vigilance to the point of almost being paranoia. And I, and I think she actually called it paranoia at one time. But I would never wish that on anyone. But I am so grateful for that experience. I, I wasn't then, but I am now because I am such a better person because of that.

40:21 I am, so I'm much more empathetic. And much more understanding I, I always, I know that there's something else going on and so I, I can understand people better. I can make better connections. And that's the beauty of hardship is that it forges you into something better. As much as it sucks, it really sucked. Like don't get me wrong and it complete. Sorry I I. I was, I was going to ask, you know, in hindsight, do you wish something had been different? But you've already answered that. And again, yeah, I, I totally agree. And I've, I've lived that too.

41:02 Like in the moment, this just sucks. They'll never see anything good out of it. There is not a gift buried in this shit. And then there is. Yeah, but when you realize that there's a gift buried in there somewhere, it makes life so much easier because now when something comes that I'm just, I'm struggling. My first thought or I try to make it my first thought 'cause sometimes it is. This sucks but it's worse. What's my lesson in this? And if you can find a lesson, it's you're not suffering anymore, right? And unless you experience it, it sounds so ridiculous because the me of 10 years ago would be like what the heck are you talking about dude?

41:48 Like, that doesn't make sense. But I want to share something, how it changed my the way I operated. I was working one night late at night and I stopped a guy on a rural highway in the middle of nowhere. And he's just excessive speeding. And I'm talking to him at his vehicle. And I sense that something wasn't right that he was he wasn't maybe having a good day. And so I stopped him and I just said, listen to her, like, pretend for a minute that I'm not in uniform. And just from one man to another man, are you OK? And he started crying and and that you got to be in a bad place if you're crying in front of a strange man, let alone somebody that's in uniform because you got to men, We men feel that we got to be macho, right? And put on this tough exterior.

42:46 And so he started crying and I held space for him and I couldn't really relate to his problems. He had some really big problems. He was a farmer. He had some huge bills coming up and he didn't, he wasn't going to be able to make them or he didn't think he was going to be able to make them. But I, I was able to hold space for him, which allowed him to release those emotions. I was able to give him some resources, tell him where he could go and get, you know, professional help. But what we don't realize is all we need to do is hold that space. So all those people that witnessed me blowing up in the office and knowing something was wrong, too scared to talk to me for fear of what my answer might be, all they ever needed to do was to hold space for me.

43:36 They didn't have to say anything other than like, I got you or whatever. And, and that's what I want people to know is just just hold space. You don't have to figure anything out. You don't have to have any wisdom to part on them. You just have to hold space for them. Let them release their emotions and they're going to think a little clearly. And while they're talking to you about how bad their life is, maybe they're going to find their own clarity, right? I. So that, that, that, that's a lot, man. I want to give them a chance to to breathe and take that that whole journey in and again, hopefully come away with what I find to be the most amazing part is is the gratitude for all of it too and how how messy a ride life can be.

44:26 But I always find thanks so much to you on the other side of that just horrible gross dark feeling is something better there. There is always light you, you just I mean, I think it's Churchill has said when you're going through hell, kid going and and the big mistake for somebody, man is to stop to to give up and go. This this shitty dark heaviness, these these nights of suicidal ideation. This is my life. This is this is what it means to be me. And it simply isn't the case for anyone. Yeah, no, not at all. And even even if this I, I don't know who I'm quoting, but somebody famous Buddhism or whatever, but even if the sky were to fall in tomorrow, they'd still be a way out.

45:16 And there's and for my own personal life, I've been, you know, that's this. My mental health crisis was one example of when I've thought that I was done going through my divorce was another one. I got divorced within a year of me starting to see a therapist. That was a whole new situation. I had to learn to accept. I thought I was done. I thought I was screwed. I thought I thought I was going to be broke for the next five or six years. I thought I wouldn't get to see my kids again for five years or whatever it was. But then I accepted that and I accepted, OK, maybe that's my life. And as soon as I accepted that, I realized it would never happen. And then that's when the cool stuff, the spiritual, I guess that I call it my accidental spiritual awakening happened. I began to trust in a higher power and I began meditating and breath work which got me through that time. It helped me regulate my emotions because even though I've been in therapy for a year, I, I still wasn't as regulated as I should have been and others could easily manipulate me because I was my emotions were all over the map. And when I started meditating and doing breath work, suddenly I became regulated and people lot, a lot of people lost control of me.

46:49 I created my own mantras to say during meditation because I didn't know how to meditate. So I did breath work and said and repeated mantras in my head. And the first one I created was I am calm, peaceful and serene. And when you start doing that in a midst emotional turmoil, suddenly you're calm, peaceful and serene. And I couldn't. I couldn't believe how it worked, but it worked really good. Yeah, we, we are it. It's surprisingly easy to direct ourselves because I find most people don't realize usually we're, we're so full of negative thoughts and judgement about ourselves and we listen to that. So when you change that into a more positive phrases in the way we talk to ourselves and treat yourselves, you respond to that too. And to get like you're saying, like that blows my mind. But, well, I've been doing it but to the negative all my life. Of course, you know, changing my thoughts will get a reaction as well.

47:44 Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what gave me the idea to do it because I was watching videos on meditation and breath work, but nobody told me how to do that. But I went back almost 15 years. When I was in my early 20s, I was working on a drilling rig in northern Alberta and we used to play lots of pranks on each other. And so I went into this, our cold storage area, because I knew that one of the guys had to get some parts for something in like an hour, half an hour, whatever it might be. And so I, I crawled into a cabinet and I closed the doors and I could barely fit in there. Like it was, it barely, barely fit in there. But I, so someone else knew that I was doing that. So they came along and locked the door, closed it so I couldn't get out.

48:39 So now I was trapped in this little coffin and I, I began to hyperventilate and I began to freak out and I said out loud, calm the fuck down, Laverne. And I was calm just like that. And so 15 years later when I'm trying to calm down and regulate my system, like, hey, that time worked. Let's try this. And so I started doing mantras and it worked. We can train our brain, our mind to do whatever it wants to do. And but when you're stuck in victimhood for years and decades, and that has served you because you never get disappointed because everything bad has happened. And yes, a lot of shit might have happened to you, but you can just trade.

49:29 What we don't realize is you can train your brain to get out of that right? And it's it's so cool, but. Yeah, when, when, when you when you live under self-imposed limitations for so long, you believe they're real and they're immovable. But it's not. It's just simply not the case. Awesome. So I know you do a lot more now, but so what's the best way for people to find out all the things that you're up to these days? I'm on Facebook is Laverne Friesen. I'm trying to build a Tiktok following because I want to help people and that is Tiktok is at true emotion coach. If they want to find out more formally what I'm up to, they can check out my websites www.trueemotion.ca and yeah, follow me on Tiktok because I want to be able to do lives. Well, Laverne is really great to, to talk to you and to hear your story and to, to give space. And again, hopefully not more than hopefully, definitely tear down that Sigma so that men can be emotional. We can cry, we can tell our traumas and we can survive and thrive.

50:53 And it, it like it is all good. And again, if, if you're out there listening, you're and this resonates and you're going through some really freaking shitty times, if, if that idea that being grateful for that is just laughable. Well, you know, take a little bit of hope in that. And as Lauren, as you said earlier, all all you wanted was some hope. Yep. And can I share a quick example of of hope of gratitude? So first of all, if you're listening and you're struggling, reach out and keep reaching out because you will find the right person. And a lot of times that person is not someone you've known for a long time. It's someone might that might be kind of on the outer edges of your circle, but they'll help you more than people in your inner circle sometimes. Last last year, I got asked to do a mental health presentation at a firefighter fundraiser in the event. And so I wrote a speech and I was trying to figure out how I was going to end the speech.

51:53 And my daughter came through for me again. And she was nine years old at the time, and she woke from a nightmare and she wanted cuddles with her dad. And so I, I cuddled in with her. And as I wrapped my arms around her, I remembered all those nights where her presence had comforted me. And I was just, I was filled with so much gratitude to be able to help her. And I feel that gratitude every day to be blessed to have my children in my life and to to be the dad they need and that they have a dad and their dad didn't die years ago.

52:41 And so fighting on, if just fight on, you'll never ever regret it. And there's always somebody there that will help you. You're here. Well, I'm glad you're still here along with your kids and, and your friends and Co workers and everybody that knows you. I'm sure I've, I have no doubt of that. So thanks again for talking to us today, Laverne, and thanks for joining us. Wherever you're listening to Real Men Field, please visit realmenfield.org. See the blog post for this episode. We'll have links to all the various resources and social media accounts mentioned. Wherever you're discovering Real Men Field, please subscribe, follow, like, share, do all the things you're allowed to do on whatever platform you're on. You can always reach out to me at realmenfeel@gmail.com.

53:23 Glad to hear from you and until next time, be good to yourself.