Breaking the Stigma of Mental Health | Men Hurt and Can Heal

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, Andy Grant.
I'm an author, coach, and

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healer.
Please visit theandygrant.com to

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learn more about me.
Real Men Feel exists to remind

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men that they are human beings
and they have the right to

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experience and express all of
their emotions.

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We have conversations that most
men aren't having, but that all

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men can benefit from.
You know, sometimes the bravest

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thing you can do is ask for
help.

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But for men, there's even a
stigma around that.

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My guest today is Laverne
Friesen.

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He is a former first responder
who is passionate about raising

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awareness around the stigma of
mental health after experiencing

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his own mental health crisis.
Now, as a transformation coach,

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Laverne shares the wisdom he
gained from his traumatic

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experiences to help others live
fulfilling lives.

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Laverne shares his experience as
a sexual abuse survivor in a

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fundamentalist family who went
on to become a police officer

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and hid his mental health crisis
for years.

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He shares what kept him going,
tools that helped him turn his

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life around, and the three-year
old Angel that brought him back

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from the brink of suicide.
Through it all, the stigma of

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what other people would think
about him if they knew how badly

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he felt kept him quiet.
Let's do it.

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Welcome to real men, Feel a
Verne.

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Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.

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Awesome.
So we're going to talk about the

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stigma of mental health and your
own journey.

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And before I do that, I want to
like what?

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What do you how do you define
stigma?

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What does that mean to you?
It's the fear of how others will

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perceive you.
If you talk about mental health,

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that's how I experienced it.
And is it is the stigma around

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discussing mental health?
Is it the same for all people?

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Is it different from men and
women?

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Yeah, I think it's a lot
stronger for men.

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We tend to, we've been
conditioned over the years to

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believe that our strength comes
with silence and holding our

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emotions.
And so when when our emotions

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get too much, we're too scared
to do anything about it because

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we we're perceived that we'll be
or sorry, we're we're scared

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that we'll be perceived as weak.
Right.

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Yeah, right, women.
I'm pretty much yeah.

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And I don't know about if
they're encouraged, but they're

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at least allowed to have
emotions and men kind of aren't

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supposed to.
That has always been my

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experience.
Yes, yes.

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Cool.
So I know from talking to you

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previously that to put it
mildly, you had an interesting

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childhood.
Would you would you like to

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start start there?
Sure.

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I didn't realize how interesting
it was because I thought it was

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normal for many years.
But yeah, I was raised in

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northern Alberta, Canada, on a
farm, and my parents were and

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still are members of a very
fundamentalist religious group.

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Some people would call them a
cult.

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I don't know if I would go that
far, but it's very controlling.

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It's very closed and abuse of
all type is rampant there,

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including sexual abuse, which I
experienced.

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The sexual abuse was always
swept under the rug and after I

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was experienced my first
assault, I had brought it

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forward to my parents and I was
told that the church would deal

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with it, which of course they
never did.

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And by that time everybody in my
age group knew who the

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perpetrator was and had all told
their parents.

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And so I was eventually brought
back to the same location and

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the inevitable happened.
I was re victimized again.

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And but during that process,
although I didn't realize it

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until I was 38 years old, I
received a very deep abandonment

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wound from that which surfaced
later in life.

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In addition to all that going on
and the very fundamentalist

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views of the church I belong to,
it was continuously Hellfire and

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brimstone sermons which I began
to experience anxiety at a very

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young age because I was scared
of going to hell.

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I was scared if the world were
going to end, I'd, I'd go to

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hell if or I died, whatever.
And I remember many times as

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soon as you turn about 11 or 12,
they begin to pressure you to

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join their church.
And they do that by saying what

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would happen if you died
tonight.

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And so I, I experienced anxiety
from a very early age because I

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was always questioning what
would happen if I died or, you

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know, the world came to a
crashing halt or whatever.

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But in addition to all of that,
I had a very abusive mother as

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well.
And I often received violent

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punishment for things that I had
not done.

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So, oh, I guess made-up or, you
know, a rumor that I might have

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done something and then I got
the punishment or I took

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punishment for my siblings
often.

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And I was the 4th of nine
children.

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So it's quite a big family.
Anyway, I grew up one day, we're

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very rural community.
And one day when I was probably

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five or six, I saw a police car
drive by with its lights and

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sirens on.
And I ran inside because I was

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scared because we never saw the
police.

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And my mom told me that the
police officer was going to help

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somebody.
So I said, I want to be a police

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officer.
And she said, well, you can't

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because the church won't allow
that.

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And I said, well, why not?
And she said, well, you, you're

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going to have to carry a gun and
you you can't use violence.

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And I'm like, but they're going
to go help people.

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It, it didn't make any sense.
And so that was a long list of

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contradictions that I
experienced in my life with that

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church.
However, from that age forward,

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I wanted to help people and I
wanted, I wanted to be a police

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officer, but I couldn't tell
anybody I wanted to go into law

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enforcement because it wasn't
condoned.

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So I told everybody I wanted to
be a paramedic.

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And so from the age of like five
or six, I began start, I started

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living a public lie because I
knew that I wanted to go into

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law enforcement.
But I, I told everybody I was

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going to go be a paramedic.
I moved away as soon as I could.

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I was 16 when I moved in with an
older brother.

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And then when I was 17, I moved
to a, a big city several hours

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away.
That was where I had an aunt

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lived there and she had never
been a part of this church.

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And so I, I moved in with her
and was able to kind of progress

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from there and grow from there.
And so I got a job working in

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hospital security because I,
I've been living this life for

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so long that even though I knew
I wanted to go into law

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enforcement, I thought maybe I
wanted to be a paramedic.

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And so I went to work at a
hospital thinking that would,

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that would kind of maybe
solidify my decision.

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And it was pretty obvious I
didn't want to be a paramedic.

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I didn't want to deal with
people that were dying.

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So I worked towards a career in
law enforcement when I was 27.

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I got into law enforcement my
first job and then I I started

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in Highway Patrol right after
that.

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And when I was in Highway Patrol
in my first posting, I joined

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the Volunteer Fire Department as
well.

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And I was having the time of my
life.

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But what I didn't realize was I
was burning my candle at both

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ends.
And what I also didn't realize

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was my need to serve others was
me trying to fulfil an unmet

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need from my childhood.
I was trying to validate myself

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by helping others.
And of course, unless you do the

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healing work, that's never going
to happen.

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During that time, I met Matt,
started dating a lady that would

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eventually become my wife and
now ex-wife.

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And about five years into that,
I was starting to burn out.

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I was in a smaller town.
I was, it's still burning my

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candle at both ends.
And I couldn't get a transfer

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out with my through the Highway
Patrol.

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And I got a phone call from an
old acquaintance who offered me

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a position working as a
contractor in the oil and gas

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industry in northern Canada,
much further north than I

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already was.
And it paid a lot of money.

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And on the phone, I told him I
would, I would, I would accept

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it.
And he said, well, don't you

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have to think about this for a
while?

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And I'm like, no, I'm, I'm done.
And I was, I was already

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starting to feel some signs of
burnout, but I just thought it

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was because I couldn't get a
transfer or something like that,

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right?
I started contracting, working

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away from home.
I was working away.

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It was supposed to be two weeks
at a time.

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But when you're a contractor and
they need you and they're busy,

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if they ask you to stay, you
kind of have to stay.

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So someday, you know, some
months I'd be working 25 days a

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month.
And it was OK because it was

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just me and my then fiance.
But we had a, our daughter, she

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was pregnant with her daughter.
And once my daughter was born, I

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didn't like being away from home
anymore because she's daddy's

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girl.
And that's just the best gift

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ever, kind of.
And so I, I lasted about another

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year, year and a half after
that.

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And then we got pregnant again
with our son.

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And so I promised her that when
I would come home before he was

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born.
So in 2016, I found a, a law

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enforcement position near where
I grew up.

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And I had sworn that I would
never come back.

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I was happy being away from
here, but I, I came back.

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Our son was born and I thought I
was living the best life.

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I thought I was living the dream
because I had a good job, I was

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married, I had a family and I
had a we had, we had a nice

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house in a newer neighborhood
and I was in the best physical

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shape of my life.
So I thought, I thought I was, I

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had it made.
But even though I thought I had

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it made, every once in a while
there'd be that little thought,

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like maybe there's more to life
or you know, what about all that

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trauma for my childhood?
Like, I wonder if that just

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disappeared.
Have I really dealt with that?

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And it's funny that I used to.
It's not funny, but it's

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interesting that I used to think
about it, wondering it because

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it was also almost like a
premonition that something was

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going to happen.
And so on Saint Patty's Day 2017

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is working a night shift, and I
was involved in a traffic stop

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with probably the most
irrational individual that I

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ever dealt with.
But to make matters worse, he

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posted a picture of me to social
media and then he filled the

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comments with veiled threats
towards me.

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But the worst part about that
was, was I had seen his driver's

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license and I knew where he
lived.

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And he lived right around the
corner from me.

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And I'm a very active father.
I always have been.

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And I was scared that I would
run into him when I had my

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children.
And I would.

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And part of my fear was that I
would have to run away.

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I wouldn't be able to defend
because my son was like maybe

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six months old.
You can't fight with a, an

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infant in your arms, right?
So, but I, I did what I always

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had done before and I, I just
let time kind of take care of

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it.
I thought that would be OK.

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And about two months after that
incident, I was assigned a

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project at work that I I didn't
think I had the capabilities of

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completing successfully, but my
management team told me that I

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was the only person that could
do it.

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And so that's a ton of stress.
I stressed about it all the time

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and starting into the summer
months, anytime I would look for

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my manager or one of the
supervisors that could help me

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for advice, they always seem to
be gone on vacation or somewhere

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else.
And so I started to feel

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abandoned by them, which is my
old childhood wound from when I

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was nine years old.
And I had no idea that this is,

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but I just felt abandoned and I
started getting more stressed

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out on top of that because I was
such or I at that time in my

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life, I got my validation from
externally from how much I could

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do for, for other people.
I would come home and I would

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give everything of myself at
home to be the best parent and

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father and husband that I could
be.

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And I never took any time for
myself.

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I wasn't resting at all.
And so my mental health started

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declining.
It started with increased

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irritability and then eventually
anger.

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And then by October of that
year, I would have burst

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00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,360
outbursts of rage.
I would see red.

227
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,920
I would, I would read an e-mail.
I'd just absolutely lose it and

228
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,240
it would take a couple days for
me to calm down.

229
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,680
South.
Starting at about September, my

230
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:56,080
ex-wife started trying to
convince me to go see a

231
00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,960
therapist and it it took me two
months just to get my head

232
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,880
wrapped around the idea that I
could go see a therapist.

233
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,000
That's how strong the stigma
was.

234
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,880
I knew that it was a good idea.
I knew that I probably should

235
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,440
see one.
I knew that I needed help, but I

236
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,600
was terrified that anybody would
find out that I had had seen

237
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,280
one.
So in November, I went to see a

238
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,280
therapist.
And within a few minutes of me

239
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,360
walking in the door, she told me
I had to take a break from work.

240
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:28,880
She's like, you got to get out
of that place for a while.

241
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,960
And so I went to my doctor, told
him I needed to take time off

242
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,960
from work for stress.
And he's like, well, how much

243
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,280
time do you need?
And I'm like, I, I don't know,

244
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,040
like, how much time do I need,
right?

245
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,640
Like I, I didn't have any idea.
I hadn't, I was clueless about

246
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,840
mental health.
So I picked a day three.

247
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,880
I picked a date three weeks in
the future because it was just

248
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,840
before a course that I was
scheduled to go on.

249
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,000
And I really wanted that course.
So I came back to work.

250
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,520
One of the first things I did
was get in a really heated

251
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,200
argument with one of my
supervisors.

252
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,840
I was accused of
insubordination, which should

253
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,520
have been a huge red flag for
anybody that knew me, but but

254
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,560
myself as well, because that was
not who I was.

255
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,920
I've always been very
professional and diplomatic.

256
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,280
So I just, I came back to work.
I didn't feel any differently.

257
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,400
I didn't think that anything had
changed.

258
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,400
I didn't feel any better.
I thought about taking another

259
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,960
stress leave, but the last one
didn't help.

260
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,320
So why would I take another one,
right?

261
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,000
I, I continued to see that same
therapist, but she didn't

262
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,440
understand, I don't believe she
understood the stigma that I was

263
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,600
under.
She didn't understand the first

264
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,440
responder world and I was lying
to myself about what I was

265
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,400
experiencing, but I was also
self stigmatizing it as well.

266
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,040
So there's no way she could have
helped me.

267
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,600
And so I kept seeing her once
once a month.

268
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,160
And even then, I like, I would
go see her and I'm like, I don't

269
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,800
know if that actually did
anything, but that's what you

270
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,680
do, right?
If you're stressed out, that's

271
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,120
what you do.
You go see a therapist and

272
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,240
whatever, right?
Like, that's what I thought.

273
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:20,040
That was how I perceived it.
In December or January, my shift

274
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,120
supervisor left and my
management team told me.

275
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,800
They said, we're not going to
promote it.

276
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,200
We're not going to fill that
position.

277
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,800
But you're the de facto leader.
And so there, there I am putting

278
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,000
all this stress or this pressure
back on myself to be the best

279
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,800
that I can be.
And I, I'm still not getting

280
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,320
validation at home.
I still don't think I'm the, the

281
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,560
person I need to be at home.
And now I'm, I'm definitely not

282
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,960
the person I need to be at work.
And so I, I just literally

283
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,840
exhausting anything I have.
And during that time, I was

284
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,400
exhausted all the time.
I never had free energy ever.

285
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,560
And so in Alberta, where I'm
from, the government has what's

286
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,560
called the selective Traffic
Enforcement program, and it

287
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,880
basically dictates what law
enforcement agencies should in

288
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,000
focus enforcement on for each
month.

289
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,680
And so for the month of
February, that's distracted

290
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,640
driving.
Well, I've been a a first

291
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,440
responder for, you know,
multiple years by this point.

292
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,319
And I'd seen a lot of the
consequences of distracted

293
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,800
driving.
And so I rallied my shift and I

294
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,000
said, let's focus on distracted
driving this month.

295
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,240
Anytime we get some extra time,
let's let's focus on distracted

296
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,160
driving, let's make an impact,
let's see what we can do.

297
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,960
And quite frankly, I was trying
to prove to my management team

298
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,320
how good of a leader I was
because I wanted to them to fill

299
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,720
that vacant supervisor spot with
someone.

300
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,920
And so we did.
And so now is basically no free

301
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,560
time at work because anytime
there's free time, I'm out

302
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,200
trying to find people, you know,
driving distracted.

303
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,240
And about halfway through that
month, I noticed that I started

304
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:11,240
feeling off and I couldn't, I
couldn't put my finger on it,

305
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,800
but I felt off and I felt
everyone that I dealt with was

306
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:22,040
abrasive and in law enforcement
like, or for me, 'cause I've,

307
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:23,960
I've always been pretty chill
and relaxed.

308
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,480
You know, it's a small number of
people that I would get Flack

309
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,000
from, but for whatever reason,
it seemed like everybody I

310
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,240
talked to was just like
argumentative and yelling

311
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,840
whatever.
And so my focus shifted to just

312
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,200
making it to the end of the
month.

313
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,960
That was my goal.
I just want to get out of this

314
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,120
month.
And then I like then I don't, I

315
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,040
don't know what, but I, that's
my goal.

316
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,280
And when March 1st hit, I had
nothing left.

317
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,040
I was completely drained.
I was apathetic and all I

318
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,000
started doing was driving around
all day and drinking coffee.

319
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,560
That's all I did at work.
I wasn't taking calls anymore,

320
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,560
doing anything.
Nothing proactive I would sit

321
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,480
for.
I would go park in a parking lot

322
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,080
and just sit for hours and do
nothing.

323
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,920
Like look at my phone or
whatever, stare blindly at

324
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,440
traffic.
Just.

325
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:21,800
I was a zombie and it soon
became difficult for me to sleep

326
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,480
at night.
Before my work shifts, I

327
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,240
couldn't sleep.
I would, I hated my job.

328
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,160
And then I started hating my
life at home as well.

329
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,520
And I would lay in bed and I
would just ruminate about how

330
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,120
horrible my life was and I I
couldn't sleep.

331
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,360
And so I started taking sleep
aids, though I was taking up to

332
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:48,400
five times the recommended dose
of a sleep aid and the most I

333
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,560
could get out of that was two
hours of sleep a night.

334
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,320
So I would either fall asleep
and then I would wake up later

335
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,080
and then spend the rest of the
night awake, or I would fall

336
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,200
asleep at some point in the
night for, you know, an hour and

337
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,680
a half to two hours.
That was, that was the Max I

338
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,680
could get.
And my world started closing in

339
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,440
around me.
And it's hard to describe unless

340
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:18,120
you've been there, but it feels
like you're being swallowed by

341
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:22,320
this cloud of black and
everything just closes in.

342
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,600
And I I started losing.
Emotions.

343
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,640
There was a point at that time,
my son was, you know, a year,

344
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,280
year and a half old.
And he was, I was sitting on the

345
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,000
couch and he's looking up at me
and he's tugging on my pant leg

346
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,680
And he's like daddy, daddy,
daddy.

347
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,400
And he has his big smile on his
face.

348
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,280
And I kind of looked at him and
I, I didn't feel anything.

349
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,840
And I'm like, I think I'm
supposed to be happy right now.

350
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,480
I think I'm supposed to be
enjoying this, but I didn't.

351
00:20:53,440 --> 00:21:00,000
And as it got worse, I was too
scared to speak up because I was

352
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,680
terrified of, of how I would be
perceived.

353
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,800
I knew that I was a leader in my
department and I didn't want to

354
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,000
come across as weak.
And so I, I couldn't say

355
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:15,600
anything or that's how I felt.
And it wasn't long before I

356
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,120
began believing that the only
way out of this pain was to end

357
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:22,520
my life.
That was that was my out.

358
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,600
And so every night while I
couldn't sleep, I'd be laying in

359
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,560
bed thinking about how I was
going to end my life and walking

360
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,080
myself through the through my
plan.

361
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,680
Because by that time I had a
very, I knew exactly how it was

362
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:39,960
going to look and what would
happen.

363
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,000
And but I was saved by a
three-year old Angel.

364
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,720
My daughter was three years old
and she had been sleeping in her

365
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,040
own bed.
And every night during that

366
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,800
time, she would wake up and she
would come to my bed and she

367
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,360
would always come to me.
And she would tuck her head, her

368
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,680
little head right into my armpit
and she would get as close to me

369
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,600
as she possibly could.
And so as I would be laying

370
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,400
there planning out my own
demise, I would feel her body

371
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,200
and I would listen to her
breathing.

372
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,200
And I knew that I had to find a
way to get through this.

373
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,120
And I didn't know how.
I had no idea how.

374
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,680
And in my career, I've worked
with some amazing people that

375
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,200
are in peer support and very
supportive individuals.

376
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,480
And they'd always told me, they
said if you ever need help, just

377
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,080
reach out anytime, any place,
anywhere, reach out for help.

378
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,600
And the closest I ever came as I
started to type out a text

379
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,680
message at 3:00 in the morning
and then I deleted it and I

380
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:53,320
never sent anything to him.
And I know for a fact that man

381
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,200
would have helped me and he
would talk me through that.

382
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,960
I know that for a fact.
And I always, I've always asked

383
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,600
myself why I never asked, never
reached out.

384
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:08,800
And I believe what it is, is in
the, the, the throes of my

385
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:15,240
despair and, and depression, I
didn't know for 100% certainty

386
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,760
that he was safe because I'd
never heard his story.

387
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,680
And that's why I tell my story
so graphically, because if

388
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,360
somebody is suffering, I want
them to know that I get it.

389
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,960
There's no doubt I get it.
So I, I, I was, I'd never sent

390
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,320
that text message.
I was desperate.

391
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,080
I didn't know what to do.
But there was one person in my

392
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,240
life that I thought could
probably help me and probably

393
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,720
would help me.
And so I told that person how

394
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,720
bad it was, or I tried to tell
them how bad it was, and my

395
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,840
message wasn't received.
And because of the shame I was

396
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,440
experiencing and the shame that
I'd experienced my whole life

397
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,200
from my sexual assault, from
never being good enough for

398
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,600
anybody, I blamed myself for not
being able to communicate how

399
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,200
bad it was.
But a few days later, in a last

400
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,440
ditch, desperate attempt, I went
back to that person and I made

401
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,600
it pretty clear where I was.
I made it crystal clear where I

402
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,000
was.
And they looked me in the eye

403
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,280
and they said I know.
And then they walked out of the

404
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:36,880
room and I know alone.
I, I know what that feels like.

405
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:43,280
And it's a horrible place to be.
And I had no idea.

406
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,440
I had absolutely no idea how I
was going to stay alive.

407
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,240
And I, I, I, I was clueless.
But every night my daughter

408
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,520
would be right beside me.
And every night I knew that I

409
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:03,560
had to get through this somehow.
And during this time I had been

410
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,600
approved for a instructors
course in Colorado.

411
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,760
And so my, my department flew me
down to the United States and I,

412
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,320
I took a seven day course in
Colorado and I should have had

413
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,000
the time of my life.
And I enjoyed the first three or

414
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,280
four days.
And then I started dreading

415
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,680
coming back to work.
And I was, I, I didn't want to

416
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,120
come home.
I didn't want to come back to

417
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,360
work my life like it was just
that bad.

418
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,400
I, I was in this place of
constant dread.

419
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,360
And so I came back to work and,
and about a less than a week

420
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:43,360
after I came back, I encountered
a firefighter that I knew I'd

421
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:47,520
never worked with him.
I just encountered him

422
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,960
professionally on occasion.
We hadn't even worked in the

423
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,880
same area before, so we just
encountered each other a few

424
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,520
times.
We had mutual friends and we

425
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,960
chatted for about two hours.
And I don't know, I don't

426
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,920
believe he knew that I was
experiencing a mental health

427
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,720
crisis.
But just that conversation and

428
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,080
that connection gave me some
hope.

429
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,720
Again, I had just this glimmer
of hope that maybe I could be

430
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,680
OK, maybe I could find a way
out.

431
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:23,680
And within a couple of weeks of
that, neighboring agency hire

432
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,920
posted a position for one
person.

433
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,880
I applied for it and I somehow
got it.

434
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,440
And to this day, I still don't
know how.

435
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,840
But I just think it shows you
how how well we can hide

436
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,600
ourselves or hide what we're
going through.

437
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,040
And I, I need to backtrack here
a bit because I wasn't hiding it

438
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,760
very good at my workplace.
I was constantly screaming for

439
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,800
help inside.
I was constantly screaming for

440
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,800
somebody to ask me if I was OK.
I thought by doing nothing that

441
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,240
it would get somebody else's
attention and apparently it

442
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,440
didn't.
I thought by yelling at my

443
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,840
supervisors in the office that
it would get somebody's

444
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,600
attention and it didn't.
And I remember one time there

445
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,800
was 3 managers and about five or
six Co workers in the office and

446
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,720
I yelled at them and I said I
can't do this anymore.

447
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:24,880
This is all bullshit and if you
guess zero you're correct.

448
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,880
But that's how many people
reached out to see if I was OK,

449
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,680
and they were either didn't care
or were too scared at what they

450
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,480
would find out.
Again, anger is what men are

451
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,760
allowed to feel.
So someone being angry, well,

452
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,000
that makes sense.
And they don't.

453
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,200
And, but yeah, probably they
don't want to go further.

454
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,840
They don't want to know if
there's something else.

455
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,240
Yeah, And that was not who I
was.

456
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,720
Like, I, you know, I expressed
frustration, but like raising my

457
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,600
voice to superior officers in
public.

458
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,320
That's, that's a big red flag or
it should have been.

459
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,000
There was some other stuff
happening.

460
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:09,880
And as is often the case when
somebody experiences declining

461
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,320
mental health, there's other
issues in the workplace.

462
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,680
And so myself and two other
people tried to make a

463
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,760
difference, tried to improve the
workplace.

464
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,920
And as part of my, I'm going to
make this place better because I

465
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,480
don't know what else I'm going
to do.

466
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:35,480
We filed a complaint, which was
found to be justified, but I

467
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,760
began to fear for my safety, my
personal safety.

468
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,720
And so then I had to get the
union involved.

469
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,120
And I had always been taken
advantage of by management

470
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,120
because I wasn't a union guy.
I wasn't one of the union guys,

471
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,200
and they always told me that.
And so in hindsight, I could see

472
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,480
I was taking advantage of it.
So I had to file this union

473
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,040
complaint because that was my
last ditch effort because I'm

474
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:05,560
trying to save my job, which
would eventually I equated to me

475
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,200
saving my life.
That's how I was going to save

476
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,560
my life is to make the workplace
bearable again.

477
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,640
And so we had this big meeting.
There was HR there, there was

478
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,520
management there, and there was
the union there.

479
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,040
And they asked me what the
matter was, even though it was

480
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,920
crystal clear in the complaint.
And I started crying.

481
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,280
I didn't know most of the people
in the room and I wept like a

482
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,920
baby.
So I left the room, I came back

483
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:39,160
and now I was angry and hostile
and I laid it out for them.

484
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,840
And then I left.
And it was, you know, a couple

485
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,920
weeks after that that I, I gave
my resignation notice.

486
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,960
And when I gave my resignation
notice, my manager, who had been

487
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,720
the brunt of some of my
outbursts, had been in that

488
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,160
meeting, comes up to me and he
tells me we've just kind of left

489
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,080
you alone.
Like you've done the worst thing

490
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,240
that you could have done is
leave me alone.

491
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,360
Are you going to, were you going
to get up at my funeral and tell

492
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,040
my family and friends and Co
workers that you just left me

493
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,280
alone?
Like is, you know, like anyway,

494
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,960
that's a whole other topic on
its own.

495
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,880
So I started my new job, new
position.

496
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,920
And so now instead of working in
a city, I was working in a rural

497
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,920
municipality.
It was much more relaxing.

498
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,280
I was able to drive around,
enjoy the scenery.

499
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,720
I was under less stress, but
something still felt off.

500
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,560
I didn't feel right.
It didn't feel right.

501
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,800
And I didn't realize that I'd
suffered or experienced

502
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,120
psychological injury.
I just, I just knew something

503
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,760
quite wasn't quite right.
So a couple of months after I

504
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:57,080
started I went on a 10 day
Backcountry camping trip with a

505
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,480
friend of mine way up the Alaska
Highway.

506
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:08,440
So I think 4 hours north of the
nearest town and then about 16

507
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,520
kilometers which would be about
10 miles straight off into the

508
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,400
mountains.
This was remote and I thought, I

509
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,720
thought this was going to reset
my mental health.

510
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,960
I thought this was going to be
the reset I needed.

511
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,120
Well, instead I spent the whole
time worrying about bear

512
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,520
attacks, right?
I didn't, I didn't enjoy the

513
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,360
time up there at all.
And so I came home and I'm like,

514
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,520
man, like I didn't get the reset
I needed.

515
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,000
Like I, I don't know what's
going on.

516
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,600
And then a month later and I, I
know the date October 30th,

517
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,360
2018.
I was the first on scene to a

518
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,720
multi vehicle collision on a
rural highway.

519
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,400
And as I pulled up and I got out
of my patrol vehicle, this

520
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,160
couple comes up to me and they
have two kids with them and the

521
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,000
kids are crying.
They're not injured physically,

522
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,560
but they're crying.
And as soon as I see them

523
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,240
crying, I'm done.
I can't talk.

524
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,800
I tried talking and then like, I
got a big lump in my throat and

525
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,560
I was done.
And I tried muttering some stuff

526
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,240
to them.
I don't know what I said, but

527
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,480
apparently they were OK with
whatever it was.

528
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,080
So I went to check on the rest
of the vehicles.

529
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,480
I found a lady that was trapped
in a vehicle and I wanted to

530
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,400
help her.
I wanted to talk to her, but I

531
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,560
couldn't say anything.
And in the back seat, there was

532
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,480
a girl close to my daughter's
age.

533
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,240
She was crying.
And, you know, as a dad, as a

534
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,160
parent, I just wanted to comfort
her.

535
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,800
And I, I couldn't talk to her.
I couldn't do it.

536
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,000
And so I, I kind of stood back
and, you know, pretended I was

537
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,600
busy and the fire department got
there and I watched the fire

538
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:54,120
department and I knew one of the
firefighters and he was running

539
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,760
around doing his thing.
And I just noticed how poised he

540
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,520
was, how professional he was and
how he was excelling at his job.

541
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,800
And I'm sitting there and I'm
like, man, that should be me.

542
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,720
Like that's what I, that's who I
am.

543
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,800
But I'm not today.
I'm not that person.

544
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,960
And I've, I, I believed that I
was broken.

545
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,880
And so of course I go home, I
Google my symptoms, everything

546
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,360
that's going on.
Never do that doctor.

547
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,720
Google is always worst case
scenario.

548
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,760
But after that shift, I, I found
a therapist, a psychologist who

549
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,520
specialized in trauma and had a
client.

550
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,840
I think it said something about
first responders.

551
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,920
But I, I knew that she was going
to help me.

552
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,440
And on the day of my first
appointment to see her, I cried

553
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,720
for the 20 minute drive to get
to her office because I knew

554
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,280
that I was going to be, I, I was
going to get help now.

555
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,920
And my appointment was for an
hour.

556
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,400
And I sat and cried in her
office for two.

557
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,160
And, and somewhere during that
session, she reaches over, she

558
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,600
puts her hand on my knee and she
says, you're not alone.

559
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,199
And that was very powerful
because I had been alone for

560
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,639
almost two years at that point.
And I didn't believe under

561
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:18,440
anybody understood me.
And even though I understood

562
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,320
what she was telling me, I still
didn't believe it.

563
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,960
And about so I, I embraced
therapy.

564
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,600
I, I learned about myself.
I learned that I, I had to

565
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,840
reframe literally all of my
thoughts, you know, a, a child

566
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,159
abuse survivor or someone
experienced, and with all that

567
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:42,560
abuse, I experienced emotional
abuse my whole life.

568
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,040
I had developed a catastrophic
thinking style, which was always

569
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,040
correct.
So it, it has saved me from

570
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,040
disappointment.
But I, I learned that I needed

571
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,320
to like literally change
everything about the way I

572
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,400
thought.
And I, I began to see results

573
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,880
almost immediately and I began
to feel so much better that I

574
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:09,760
just, I embraced it so much.
And about six months later, I

575
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,120
went to the courthouse.
I was, I was on duty, I was

576
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,960
working and go to the courthouse
and I see a retired police

577
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,760
officer there where he, he saw
me first.

578
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:22,280
And as soon as he saw me, he
left the group that he was in

579
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,640
and he came over to see me and
he said, hey, let's talk in this

580
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,120
private room.
So go in the room and he says,

581
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,160
hey, what's going on?
And I knew what he meant, but I

582
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,120
was still battling stigma.
And so I, I feigned ignorance.

583
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,480
And he says, listen, I have
PTSD.

584
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:40,840
I know what you're going
through.

585
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,160
And and then he told me his
story.

586
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,120
And that's when I knew I wasn't
alone.

587
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,880
That's when I absolutely knew
100% that I wasn't alone.

588
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:59,320
And, and the fact that he had,
he had approached me just to let

589
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:06,600
me know and share his story was
a golden hug from the universe.

590
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,160
I, I can't describe the amount
of hope that I had after that,

591
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:19,240
that, that he did that.
And really all I ever wanted was

592
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:21,000
hope.
That's all.

593
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,720
When you're struggling, you
just, you're just trying to get

594
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,480
some.
And I want to bring up another

595
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,240
point.
That firefighter at that

596
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:34,480
collision that I watched that I
was so that I wished I could be

597
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,480
like him again, within a few
months of that collision, he

598
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:44,000
died from suicide.
And so you just never know who's

599
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,880
suffering, how they show it, how
fast did it come on?

600
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,600
You never know.
Probably the while I was in

601
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:57,680
therapy, probably the most
profound thing, profound

602
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,240
epiphany I had was we started
doing EMDR therapy.

603
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,400
And for those listening who
might not know what that is,

604
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,600
it's eye movement
desensitization and

605
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:14,400
reprocessing, where the process
of bringing up basically a old

606
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,640
memory with some eye movement,
you can reprogram your brain how

607
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:24,000
you remember it.
And so my psychologist asked me

608
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,960
to what was bothering me the
most at that time in my life.

609
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,200
I told her, she said, now feel
that sensation in your body.

610
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,040
And now remember the first time
you felt that sensation.

611
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,000
And the first time I'd felt that
sensation was the second time

612
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,720
I'd been sexually abused when I
knew it was about to happen and

613
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:53,160
I was screaming for help inside.
And I experienced that

614
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,320
abandonment wound.
And so I was transported back 30

615
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,600
years.
And so we did the whole process,

616
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,200
the therapy session, It was
pretty exhausting.

617
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,480
I cried a lot.
But at the end of it, she asks

618
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,280
me now, same name, something
good that came of that.

619
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,680
And the answer was instantaneous
for me.

620
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,280
And I told her I'm a better dad
because of that instant.

621
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,920
And to me, the 38 year old
Laverne, that was the most

622
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,600
important thing that that I
could be, was a, a good dad.

623
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:37,000
And I've, I've switched that now
to being the best that I can be

624
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,160
because that would translate to
me being a good dad or a great

625
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:46,080
dad and that but being able to
take the single most traumatic

626
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,160
event of my life and switching
it to this awesome thing that

627
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,000
now I'm a really good dad or a
better dad.

628
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,200
That was profound because I
started to look at other aspects

629
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,200
of my life and start to make
those adjustments.

630
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:12,280
So all the abuse I experienced
as a child that kind of shaped

631
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:18,760
me and I kind of liked who I was
becoming going through a

632
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:24,280
prolonged mental health crisis
to the depths of that I went to

633
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:30,800
and the anxiety I felt, my
symptoms were diagnosed as

634
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,480
depression, mild to severe, no
mild to moderate depression.

635
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,000
And so if, if mild to moderate
depression leads you to like

636
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,360
suicidal thoughts and planning a
suicide, what the hell does this

637
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,680
severe depression lead you to,
Right?

638
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,720
But so I had, I had the
depression, I had the anxiety, I

639
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:58,640
had hostility and I had hyper
vigilance to the point of almost

640
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,680
being paranoia.
And I, and I think she actually

641
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,640
called it paranoia at one time.
But I would never wish that on

642
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,400
anyone.
But I am so grateful for that

643
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,480
experience.
I, I wasn't then, but I am now

644
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,280
because I am such a better
person because of that.

645
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,840
I am, so I'm much more
empathetic.

646
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,880
And much more understanding I, I
always, I know that there's

647
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,560
something else going on and so
I, I can understand people

648
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,520
better.
I can make better connections.

649
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:41,880
And that's the beauty of
hardship is that it forges you

650
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,840
into something better.
As much as it sucks, it really

651
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,800
sucked.
Like don't get me wrong and it

652
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,080
complete.
Sorry I I.

653
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:56,720
I was, I was going to ask, you
know, in hindsight, do you wish

654
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:58,440
something had been different?
But you've already answered

655
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,160
that.
And again, yeah, I, I totally

656
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,720
agree.
And I've, I've lived that too.

657
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:04,240
Like in the moment, this just
sucks.

658
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:05,680
They'll never see anything good
out of it.

659
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,440
There is not a gift buried in
this shit.

660
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,520
And then there is.
Yeah, but when you realize that

661
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,880
there's a gift buried in there
somewhere, it makes life so much

662
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,880
easier because now when
something comes that I'm just,

663
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,080
I'm struggling.
My first thought or I try to

664
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,160
make it my first thought 'cause
sometimes it is.

665
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,360
This sucks but it's worse.
What's my lesson in this?

666
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,560
And if you can find a lesson,
it's you're not suffering

667
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,960
anymore, right?
And unless you experience it, it

668
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,200
sounds so ridiculous because the
me of 10 years ago would be like

669
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,240
what the heck are you talking
about dude?

670
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,920
Like, that doesn't make sense.
But I want to share something,

671
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,920
how it changed my the way I
operated.

672
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,040
I was working one night late at
night and I stopped a guy on a

673
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,960
rural highway in the middle of
nowhere.

674
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,280
And he's just excessive
speeding.

675
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,560
And I'm talking to him at his
vehicle.

676
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,280
And I sense that something
wasn't right that he was he

677
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,480
wasn't maybe having a good day.
And so I stopped him and I just

678
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,600
said, listen to her, like,
pretend for a minute that I'm

679
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,320
not in uniform.
And just from one man to another

680
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:30,000
man, are you OK?
And he started crying and and

681
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,800
that you got to be in a bad
place if you're crying in front

682
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,200
of a strange man, let alone
somebody that's in uniform

683
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:42,800
because you got to men, We men
feel that we got to be macho,

684
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,400
right?
And put on this tough exterior.

685
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,160
And so he started crying and I
held space for him and I

686
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,120
couldn't really relate to his
problems.

687
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,080
He had some really big problems.
He was a farmer.

688
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,000
He had some huge bills coming up
and he didn't, he wasn't going

689
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,920
to be able to make them or he
didn't think he was going to be

690
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,640
able to make them.
But I, I was able to hold space

691
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,280
for him, which allowed him to
release those emotions.

692
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,080
I was able to give him some
resources, tell him where he

693
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,160
could go and get, you know,
professional help.

694
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,720
But what we don't realize is all
we need to do is hold that

695
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:22,800
space.
So all those people that

696
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,320
witnessed me blowing up in the
office and knowing something was

697
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:31,840
wrong, too scared to talk to me
for fear of what my answer might

698
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,960
be, all they ever needed to do
was to hold space for me.

699
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,520
They didn't have to say anything
other than like, I got you or

700
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,600
whatever.
And, and that's what I want

701
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,920
people to know is just just hold
space.

702
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,920
You don't have to figure
anything out.

703
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,840
You don't have to have any
wisdom to part on them.

704
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:53,920
You just have to hold space for
them.

705
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,760
Let them release their emotions
and they're going to think a

706
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,360
little clearly.
And while they're talking to you

707
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,480
about how bad their life is,
maybe they're going to find

708
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,400
their own clarity, right?
I.

709
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,440
So that, that, that, that's a
lot, man.

710
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,200
I want to give them a chance to
to breathe and take that that

711
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,400
whole journey in and again,
hopefully come away with what I

712
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,520
find to be the most amazing part
is is the gratitude for all of

713
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,960
it too and how how messy a ride
life can be.

714
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:32,040
But I always find thanks so much
to you on the other side of that

715
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,960
just horrible gross dark feeling
is something better there.

716
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,320
There is always light you, you
just I mean, I think it's

717
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,160
Churchill has said when you're
going through hell, kid going

718
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,280
and and the big mistake for
somebody, man is to stop to to

719
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,840
give up and go.
This this shitty dark heaviness,

720
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,200
these these nights of suicidal
ideation.

721
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,760
This is my life.
This is this is what it means to

722
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,160
be me.
And it simply isn't the case for

723
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,560
anyone.
Yeah, no, not at all.

724
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,640
And even even if this I, I don't
know who I'm quoting, but

725
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,240
somebody famous Buddhism or
whatever, but even if the sky

726
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:14,960
were to fall in tomorrow, they'd
still be a way out.

727
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,520
And there's and for my own
personal life, I've been, you

728
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,480
know, that's this.
My mental health crisis was one

729
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,480
example of when I've thought
that I was done going through my

730
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,800
divorce was another one.
I got divorced within a year of

731
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:36,760
me starting to see a therapist.
That was a whole new situation.

732
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,720
I had to learn to accept.
I thought I was done.

733
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:42,440
I thought I was screwed.
I thought I thought I was going

734
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,440
to be broke for the next five or
six years.

735
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,240
I thought I wouldn't get to see
my kids again for five years or

736
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:52,480
whatever it was.
But then I accepted that and I

737
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,280
accepted, OK, maybe that's my
life.

738
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,840
And as soon as I accepted that,
I realized it would never

739
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,560
happen.
And then that's when the cool

740
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,400
stuff, the spiritual, I guess
that I call it my accidental

741
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,800
spiritual awakening happened.
I began to trust in a higher

742
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:14,880
power and I began meditating and
breath work which got me through

743
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,960
that time.
It helped me regulate my

744
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:24,240
emotions because even though
I've been in therapy for a year,

745
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:31,560
I, I still wasn't as regulated
as I should have been and others

746
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,680
could easily manipulate me
because I was my emotions were

747
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,440
all over the map.
And when I started meditating

748
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:45,520
and doing breath work, suddenly
I became regulated and people

749
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,960
lot, a lot of people lost
control of me.

750
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,320
I created my own mantras to say
during meditation because I

751
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,920
didn't know how to meditate.
So I did breath work and said

752
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,560
and repeated mantras in my head.
And the first one I created was

753
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:06,000
I am calm, peaceful and serene.
And when you start doing that in

754
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,840
a midst emotional turmoil,
suddenly you're calm, peaceful

755
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,520
and serene.
And I couldn't.

756
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,520
I couldn't believe how it
worked, but it worked really

757
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,560
good.
Yeah, we, we are it.

758
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,440
It's surprisingly easy to direct
ourselves because I find most

759
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,640
people don't realize usually
we're, we're so full of negative

760
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,280
thoughts and judgement about
ourselves and we listen to that.

761
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,560
So when you change that into a
more positive phrases in the way

762
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,760
we talk to ourselves and treat
yourselves, you respond to that

763
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,120
too.
And to get like you're saying,

764
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,840
like that blows my mind.
But, well, I've been doing it

765
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,160
but to the negative all my life.
Of course, you know, changing my

766
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,160
thoughts will get a reaction as
well.

767
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,400
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you what gave me

768
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,400
the idea to do it because I was
watching videos on meditation

769
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,440
and breath work, but nobody told
me how to do that.

770
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:59,000
But I went back almost 15 years.
When I was in my early 20s, I

771
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:05,640
was working on a drilling rig in
northern Alberta and we used to

772
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,960
play lots of pranks on each
other.

773
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,560
And so I went into this, our
cold storage area, because I

774
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:18,520
knew that one of the guys had to
get some parts for something in

775
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,440
like an hour, half an hour,
whatever it might be.

776
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,840
And so I, I crawled into a
cabinet and I closed the doors

777
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,440
and I could barely fit in there.
Like it was, it barely, barely

778
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,640
fit in there.
But I, so someone else knew that

779
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,040
I was doing that.
So they came along and locked

780
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,800
the door, closed it so I
couldn't get out.

781
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,360
So now I was trapped in this
little coffin and I, I began to

782
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:48,080
hyperventilate and I began to
freak out and I said out loud,

783
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,960
calm the fuck down, Laverne.
And I was calm just like that.

784
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,480
And so 15 years later when I'm
trying to calm down and regulate

785
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,400
my system, like, hey, that time
worked.

786
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,640
Let's try this.
And so I started doing mantras

787
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:07,840
and it worked.
We can train our brain, our mind

788
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,240
to do whatever it wants to do.
And but when you're stuck in

789
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:18,120
victimhood for years and
decades, and that has served you

790
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:24,200
because you never get
disappointed because everything

791
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,680
bad has happened.
And yes, a lot of shit might

792
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,480
have happened to you, but you
can just trade.

793
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,600
What we don't realize is you can
train your brain to get out of

794
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,240
that right?
And it's it's so cool, but.

795
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,880
Yeah, when, when, when you when
you live under self-imposed

796
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,960
limitations for so long, you
believe they're real and they're

797
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:45,760
immovable.
But it's not.

798
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,640
It's just simply not the case.
Awesome.

799
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:53,120
So I know you do a lot more now,
but so what's the best way for

800
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,480
people to find out all the
things that you're up to these

801
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,880
days?
I'm on Facebook is Laverne

802
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:04,320
Friesen.
I'm trying to build a Tiktok

803
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:12,200
following because I want to help
people and that is Tiktok is at

804
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,080
true emotion coach.
If they want to find out more

805
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,920
formally what I'm up to, they
can check out my websites

806
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:30,120
www.trueemotion.ca and yeah,
follow me on Tiktok because I

807
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:36,680
want to be able to do lives.
Well, Laverne is really great

808
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,280
to, to talk to you and to hear
your story and to, to give

809
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,280
space.
And again, hopefully not more

810
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,280
than hopefully, definitely tear
down that Sigma so that men can

811
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,960
be emotional.
We can cry, we can tell our

812
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,600
traumas and we can survive and
thrive.

813
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:58,360
And it, it like it is all good.
And again, if, if you're out

814
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,560
there listening, you're and this
resonates and you're going

815
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,640
through some really freaking
shitty times, if, if that idea

816
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,400
that being grateful for that is
just laughable.

817
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:10,120
Well, you know, take a little
bit of hope in that.

818
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,400
And as Lauren, as you said
earlier, all all you wanted was

819
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:14,640
some hope.
Yep.

820
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,200
And can I share a quick example
of of hope of gratitude?

821
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,400
So first of all, if you're
listening and you're struggling,

822
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,920
reach out and keep reaching out
because you will find the right

823
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,800
person.
And a lot of times that person

824
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,800
is not someone you've known for
a long time.

825
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,960
It's someone might that might be
kind of on the outer edges of

826
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,440
your circle, but they'll help
you more than people in your

827
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,160
inner circle sometimes.
Last last year, I got asked to

828
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,440
do a mental health presentation
at a firefighter fundraiser in

829
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,560
the event.
And so I wrote a speech and I

830
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,120
was trying to figure out how I
was going to end the speech.

831
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,200
And my daughter came through for
me again.

832
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,160
And she was nine years old at
the time, and she woke from a

833
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,280
nightmare and she wanted cuddles
with her dad.

834
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,400
And so I, I cuddled in with her.
And as I wrapped my arms around

835
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:15,400
her, I remembered all those
nights where her presence had

836
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,240
comforted me.
And I was just, I was filled

837
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:24,640
with so much gratitude to be
able to help her.

838
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:31,400
And I feel that gratitude every
day to be blessed to have my

839
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:36,400
children in my life and to to be
the dad they need and that they

840
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,280
have a dad and their dad didn't
die years ago.

841
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,680
And so fighting on, if just
fight on, you'll never ever

842
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,480
regret it.
And there's always somebody

843
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,360
there that will help you.
You're here.

844
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,760
Well, I'm glad you're still here
along with your kids and, and

845
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,600
your friends and Co workers and
everybody that knows you.

846
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,160
I'm sure I've, I have no doubt
of that.

847
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,120
So thanks again for talking to
us today, Laverne, and thanks

848
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:05,400
for joining us.
Wherever you're listening to

849
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,840
Real Men Field, please visit
realmenfield.org.

850
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,200
See the blog post for this
episode.

851
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,120
We'll have links to all the
various resources and social

852
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,000
media accounts mentioned.
Wherever you're discovering Real

853
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,080
Men Field, please subscribe,
follow, like, share, do all the

854
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,160
things you're allowed to do on
whatever platform you're on.

855
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,560
You can always reach out to me
at realmenfeel@gmail.com.

856
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:27,320
Glad to hear from you and until
next time, be good to yourself.