Breaking the Stigma: Walker Ferguson on Men's Wellness

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, author, coach and
healer, Andy Grant.

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You can visit theandygrant.com
to learn more about me.

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Real Men Feel reminds men that
they are human beings and have

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the right to experience and
express all of their emotions.

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We have conversations that most
men are not having, but that all

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men can benefit from.
My guest today in this glorious

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new year of 2025 is Walker
Ferguson.

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Walker is a senior at Wake
Forest University majoring in

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Economics with a minor in
Communications.

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He is a student athlete and
safety for the Wake Forest

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football team.
Walker has learned to balance

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academics, athletics and
entrepreneurship because he is

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also the Co founder and CEO of
Ascend, a meditation and

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Wellness app designed to help
people elevate their mental

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clarity and overall well-being.
Walker shares some of the

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struggles he faced that
eventually led to the Ascend

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app.
We discussed the stigma around

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men asking for help, the
importance of community, and

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what makes the Ascend app so
unique.

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And it does sound very cool.
Walker also tells us what he's

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proud of, what he's most looking
forward to, and one thing he

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wishes more men knew.
Let's do it.

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Welcome to real men feel.
Walker happy to be here.

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Thanks for having me.
So you are currently a college

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senior, correct?
Yes, Sir, that's correct.

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Here wait for all.
Right, wait for us.

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All right, so and, and you're a
football player.

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That's correct, yes, Sir.
Or former football players?

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Just wrapped up my senior year.
And you reached out because you

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have, you're part of a team.
You developed a Wellness app.

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That's correct.
Yes, Sir.

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So how'd you, first of all,
how'd you have time to do that

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being a full time student and
and in athletics, how did you

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manage to fit fit a fit a
Wellness app in there too?

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Yeah, I know.
That's a great question.

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I think it comes down to like 2
words pretty much define like

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who I am.
The first one, being

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disciplined, just doing things
the right way, showing up at the

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same time and you know, getting
everything I got to the best of

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my ability.
And then two, with consistency.

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You know, this one's great, but
without consistency you really

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don't have much, right?
So every day I just try to wake

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up, be the same exact person,
whether that was in the weight

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room, whether I was in school,
whether that was developing as

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well my staff and you know,
falling in love with something

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and I'm loving what you do.
I mean, it just becomes fun.

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So that's kind of how they would
do it.

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And you know there's enough
hours in the day to get

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everything done.
Are you naturally disciplined

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and consistent?
Yeah, no, that's, that's that's

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a great question.
In high school.

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No, like not at all, to be
honest with you.

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You know, I got to college.
It was one of the things like

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when you're in high school,
right?

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Like if you were like, you know,
you're a little sick or you got

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a cold or something, you could
sleep in a little bit, right?

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Your dad could call you in and
you could go like, hey, you

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know, you're good, you know, go
to their next class.

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And college is not like that at
all.

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So like it was football Wake
Forest with PowerPoint football,

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you have a lift at 5:30, like
you're there at 5:30 on the

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roller.
Like you have questions asked,

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like doesn't matter if you get a
cold, sick, flu, like whatever,

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right?
So early on it was definitely

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pretty tough, like mitigating
that, like learning how to, you

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know, just show up like on time
every day and given my full

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effort, you know, no matter how
I was feeling.

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So without football, you know,
that was a big fan from April

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point from me for sure.
And and was football alive in

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high school?
Oh, absolutely.

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I I grew up playing.
I was playing football since I

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was like in second grade and I
think I started playing pack

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one, like third.
So it's been like my entire

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life.
But it actually wasn't my first

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love, though.
My first love was lacrosse.

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Loved playing lacrosse, loved
the sport, loved everything

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about it.
Yeah, I know football in

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lacrosse in high school and just
love being around the ball.

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So.
So with all that going on, why

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did you want to develop a
Wellness app?

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Yeah, no, another great question
to backtrack a little bit back

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in the summer of 2021, we get we
got in here for Co Paul before

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camp and I met my business
partner Hampton.

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He's also like my brother and my
best friend.

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But we kind of had, we had a
very similar story.

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Both of our moms, the Realtors,
both of our dad came from like

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farming backgrounds.
He has a family in the middle of

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nowhere in Georgia.
Mine's in like Halifax,

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Virginia.
And it was just like like a mass

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made in heaven, right?
That like it's a beautiful

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friendship to form.
Long story short, Hampton and I

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was kind of like bounced ideas
off each other.

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You know, we're like, oh, we
could do a brewery, you know, we

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could invent this, invent this,
right?

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Nothing ever kind of stuck.
And then, you know, Fast forward

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a little bit, sophomore year
comes around and we're both

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going through a tough time,
right?

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And that's what another thing
too is like, I really liked your

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podcast and I like the way that
you guys bring emotions and like

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raw authenticity, the way men
feel because it's so important

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and it's not talked about it
enough.

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So appreciate you for that.
But getting back to that, you

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know, software was tough for me.
You know, you're not playing

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football, right?
I'm couldn't be going, playing

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scout team, not traveling, like
farthest thing from touching the

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field.
And it's the same way, you know,

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things in school weren't going
right.

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You know, grades, the Wake
Forest is a tough school.

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You know, a lot of things, you
know, on the home front, when I

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was with the relationships, just
family things, it was just it

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was a tough time, you know, and
you know, I didn't really take a

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step back to be grateful for all
my money, blessings in my life.

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I didn't know what mindfulness
was.

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I didn't really live in the
present moment.

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I either lived in the past,
which is depression, right, or

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in the future, which is anxiety.
I was just really, it was tough

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and Hampton was kind of with
that through me.

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I'm so thankful that God put him
in my life to go through those

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struggles together.
When we started meditating, I'm

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a Christian guy, so I'm I'm read
scripture and meditate on the

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word.
And Hampton, you know, really

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got big into Marcus Aurelius
reading the book of meditation,

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just learning how to meditate
different techniques.

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After sophomore year, he
transferred to University of

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Georgetown.
I stayed at weight and, you

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know, we just continue to
meditate, continue to grow in

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our relationship and
mindfulness, taking a step back,

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start a gratitude journal that
brought us out of some very

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tough times in life, right?
Just being president, being

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thankful.
So Fast forward to January of

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last year.
He called me and said, Walker, I

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got the solution.
He's like, I know what we're

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going to do.
I was like, what's that?

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And he's like, you know, you use
that calm.

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I used to have head space.
And we both love them, right?

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I'm like, yeah, they're great.
And he's like, what if we create

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an app that was tailored to the
individual user, like a

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personalization app that where
you can get your own meditation

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on the spot for whatever you're
going through?

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I'm like, yeah, dude, like that
sounds unbelievable, but you

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know, that's like how we do it.
So a lot of things fell into

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place.
We met some unbelievable

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developers.
Shout out to Colin Grave and

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Gordon Granbush, they both MVP
this summer, 2 unbelievable

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students in Georgetown.
And over the summer, we really

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just grinded like we were
putting in long days.

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I was in New York at the time.
We were all spread out and just

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built this app using artificial
intelligence in the right in the

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right way, you know, to help
people with what they're going

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through.
So to answer your question, I

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know I'm glad that.
But in short, the reason we

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created this app was to help
people who don't have to

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research, don't know where to
go.

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Because me personally, Hampton
personally, we were going

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through so much.
That's sophomore year.

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We didn't we didn't know where
to go.

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And you know, that's another
thing while they really love

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your podcast is like men don't
really have that resource.

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As a man, you got to be like
tough, like you don't want to

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talk about, you know, these
these real feelings and

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emotions.
And that's kind of like how the

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idea started and we've grown a
lot from there and now we're on

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the out store stuff.
So.

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You're you're out.
You're at least you're

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available.
Yes, Sir, We did our beta

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testing, you know, in September
and we got on the App Store

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about 3 weeks ago.
So we're on the iOS, just the

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App Store right now.
We're about two months from the

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Google Play Store, So if you
search up with send meditations

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you can find the app.
And prior to that sophomore

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year, prior to those, those
difficulties with, with school

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relationships and, and not
playing ball like you're used

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to, had your life pretty much
been smooth sailing, you know,

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emotionally and mentally?
To be honest with you, I would

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say yes, for the most part.
You know, I'm very blessed.

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I grew up in a great household,
2 beautiful sisters.

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So I love the death.
And you know, I went to church

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every Sunday, the family and you
know, everything kind of went

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right in high school.
You know, it's like, you know,

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they're growing up, you know,
playing sports, you know, doing

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great, you know, just showing up
in class, doing a good job.

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And you know, you have that
great community in high school

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and you know, you get to college
and everything's new.

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It's a whole new world.
You got people from all over the

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country and making a
relationship.

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But to answer your question,
I've been very blessed and I've

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had so many unbelievable
opportunities on the episode.

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Thankful for I didn't really hit
a big, you know, big hurdle.

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I guess if you're looking at my
life in a graph until that year.

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So cool.
And so even today or then a few

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years ago when yourself were
here, what did you did you, you

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know, feel experience a stigma
against asking for help?

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Did did you and Hampton kind of
like, have to feel like you had

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to, like, keep this secret, that
you were struggling?

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No, yeah, I know that's another
great question to be honest with

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you, kind of, I know we kind of
had each other to ask each other

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questions and stuff like that.
But especially like playing

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football, like at this level and
you just kind of have like

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expectations, right?
Like you got to do, you got to,

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like I said, you got to be
somewhere at a certain time.

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And there's also like this,
there's like this image of you

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that, you know, you got to be
like this tough guy, like this

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tough football player, like
those things the right way and

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like he doesn't have feelings,
right?

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Like you don't.
You know what?

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So to be honest with you, yeah,
I didn't, I didn't reach out for

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help.
I, I definitely resources awake.

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I could have reached out to, to
get through some of those

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things, but I didn't because of
a perception I didn't really

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want for people to perceive me
as being weak.

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To be honest with you, this is
something I'm really not proud

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of, but definitely something to
put out in the open.

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And you know, I'm so thankful
for my journey and what I went

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through to get to where I am
today.

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So looking back now at the
resources you had to cultivate

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the thing, your resilience, do
you think you were weak?

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No, I don't.
Great.

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I think that, you know, I know I
don't.

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I think, I think, I, I think
what I need.

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I think what I went through, I
needed to go through.

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And I definitely do reach,
reach.

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I wish I reached out to people,
but I want to emphasize to

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everybody listening out there
that you're never weak and

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you're never alone.
You know everyone's here for a

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reason and put your best foot
forward every day.

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You've got to get a plan for
each and every one of those, so.

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Yeah, I often tell men that, you
know, often the bravest thing

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you will ever do is ask for
help.

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Because.
Because we're so afraid of

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anyone thinking we're not as
strong as we we want to pretend

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we are or think we have to be or
whatever, whatever that that BS

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is that's that's in our heads.
But.

234
00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:18,560
Yes, Sir, Yeah.
I get it.

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It's almost disheartening to
hear that that that young men

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are still like, dealing with
that.

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I know, but.
Again, in hindsight, what do you

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think?
Is there any sort of program

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that would have attracted you to
it?

240
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,320
Is there something that like
like what would have gotten you

241
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,200
to maybe ask for help a little
earlier or or go just beyond

242
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,920
your your best friend there?
Yeah, I think, I think community

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is a big, a big piece of that.
What I wish I would have done in

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00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:54,120
that moment was joined a couple
groups, I ended up joining a

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00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,680
group called Athletes in Action
here at Wake, which is a bunch

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00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:59,400
of student athletes that just
dive into the word.

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00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,680
We have like a Bible say on
Thursdays and then we do, we

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just all meet as a group and
just kind of play games on

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Tuesdays.
And the community is still

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00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,880
essential because people that
are like minded and people that

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love you bring you out of tough
times.

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00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,960
And one thing I'd say that if I
could go back in time is I would

253
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:17,720
have jumped into a lot of
groups, community groups

254
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,960
earlier, as well as taking
advantage of a lot of the

255
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,760
resources here at Wake.
We do have a mental health and

256
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,840
well-being senator on the
football team.

257
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,840
We had sports psychologist so
you could talk to.

258
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,520
And, you know, I would have put
my ego, you know, aside back

259
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,080
then and I would have I would
have gone.

260
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,280
And that was the big, that was a
big learning step for me too,

261
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,400
just becoming more aware and
just realizing that, you know,

262
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:41,080
you're not alone, right?
Did.

263
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,040
Any of your teammates take
advantage of the sports

264
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,440
psychologist.
Oh yeah, a lot, a lot actually.

265
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,920
OK, cool.
My, one of my, the guys I'm

266
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,800
living with, one of my
roommates, he, he used to go

267
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,560
there too.
And yeah, they, they help out a

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00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:55,120
lot.
They're great.

269
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,880
They're good at what they do and
they're they're, they're good

270
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,440
people all.
Right.

271
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:04,080
So you had mentioned Ascend,
your meditation app has a lot of

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00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,720
personalization options and AI.
So what else makes you makes it

273
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,080
different from other apps that
are out there?

274
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,440
Yeah, I think the biggest aspect
is that personalization piece,

275
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:15,800
right?
So like when you open the app,

276
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you're prompted to, first of
all, you take a personalization

277
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,320
quiz, right?
So you just give it some base in

278
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,880
the like name, like birth year
and then like meditation

279
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,360
experience and then kind of what
you want the app, What goals do

280
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,240
you want to get out of the app,
right?

281
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,440
Is it improved focus?
Is it unlock your full

282
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,360
potential?
Is it cultivate a sense of

283
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,880
gratitude?
And then just kind of ask like

284
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,800
what type of meditation or
you're used to or not at all.

285
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,680
It's like body scan
visualization.

286
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,120
So from there, once you take
that quiz, you're prompted to

287
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,120
like this screen that that
create meditation.

288
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,600
Once you hit that button that
has create meditation Big Blue

289
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,080
dot, you can type in literally
anything going on in your life,

290
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,680
like anything like I'm like
literally, I could say I'm going

291
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,520
on a podcast.
I'm a little nervous before that

292
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,080
could give you a notation to
help them do well, you know,

293
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,160
it's not literally anything,
right?

294
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,760
It will create that meditation
for you on the spot.

295
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,400
Have you start to lengthen
background and within 5 to 10

296
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,440
seconds while you're listening
to your background track, that

297
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,200
meditation just for you, for
literally whatever you've given

298
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,360
it will pop up as well as the
personalization quiz is pretty

299
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,360
cool as well because that quiz
allows us to know you a little

300
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,600
bit better.
So you get suggestions, right?

301
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,320
So if you don't have anything on
the top of your head and you

302
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,360
just want something that might
be tailored, good for you, it's

303
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,480
right there.
As well as the other thing that

304
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,320
I also like has been helping me
a lot personally is the sleep

305
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,200
stories.
Everyone likes a good bedtime

306
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,080
story.
And you can create your own

307
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,680
bedtime story where you can make
yourself a character, give it a

308
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:37,840
theme setting, like literally
trace your own story, right?

309
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,600
Same process.
But what makes us the most

310
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,000
different out of all that is
what we call meditation plan.

311
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,520
So within the app, there's a
feature where you can type in a

312
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,560
specific goal, right?
So I could say in the app, I can

313
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:55,160
say I want to become a starter
on my football team, You know,

314
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,240
my fifth year of college, I'm
going to do this this, and

315
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:58,400
that's to achieve my goal,
right?

316
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,680
The app will it takes 5 to 10
minutes, but it'll create a step

317
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,320
by step plan for you, meditation
plan for you to see yourself

318
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:06,520
achieving that goal.
And you can do that with

319
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:07,800
anything.
There's sub categories, right?

320
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,920
It's like mental health
relationships success, like

321
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,080
like, right, there's a couple,
there's six different

322
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,160
categories.
So for me, I would do that one

323
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,760
that would be achievement and it
breaks up in distinct phases.

324
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,320
So I can see myself actually
achieving this goal or doing

325
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,000
these things before they
actually happen because

326
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,400
everything as we know it starts
in the mark.

327
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,880
So that aspect of being able to
that tailored personalization

328
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,080
aspect as well as being able to
like see yourself creating a

329
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,720
goal and like the distinct
phases to help you.

330
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,760
And then that's what sets us
part of the most is the plans

331
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,480
feature, but personalization of
the whole because it's literally

332
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,640
tailored for.
You so these personalized

333
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,320
meditations, these are spoken
word you're they're they're a

334
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,840
guided meditation that gets
created.

335
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,400
Yeah, no, Yes, Sir.
So once you put in your prompt,

336
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,600
you select the voice, we have 6
right now, and then you select

337
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,400
the background track.
And then once you select that

338
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,480
background track for your voice,
you literally hit next and a

339
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,680
screen will pop up and the
background you always will start

340
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,480
playing while it creates your
meditation.

341
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,040
Like I said, like 5 to 10
seconds.

342
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:13,600
And then your meditation will
play out.

343
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,280
When you're done, you can finish
it, start it, rate it, and then

344
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,920
you save it if you like.
So pretty simple and.

345
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,760
The the meditation plan sounds
like so that's some guided

346
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,760
visualizations.
Correct.

347
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,200
Yes, Sir.
So that's like when you put in a

348
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,440
specific goal and then it's
broken up into state phases to

349
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,760
see yourself achieving that.
And it's we have two sets of

350
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,080
plans.
You can either like a 12 day

351
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,080
plan, it's 12 meditations broken
up into three phases, or you can

352
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,720
do a 20 day plan, which is what
we call the longer plan, broken

353
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,040
up into three different phases
as well.

354
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,520
How does it work consumer wise?
Is this a subscription or are

355
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,440
there in purchase apps?
Or you buy the app to begin with

356
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,600
or?
Yeah, no, so it's, no, it's a

357
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,800
free on the App Store.
So once you download the app,

358
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,080
there is a free, there's a free
tier.

359
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,680
So you get 3 meditations, 3
sleep stories and one free plan.

360
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,760
And that's weekly, right?
Not the plan weekly obviously,

361
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,640
because that's a couple that's
like a 20 day thing.

362
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,000
But the sleep stories and
meditations 3 a week.

363
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,920
And then from there, if you want
more, it is a subscription

364
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,400
model.
And we're still, we're still

365
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,400
trying to figure out how to, you
know, scale that with, you know,

366
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:13,720
the text to speech, everything
like that.

367
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,440
But as right now it is, it's
your model.

368
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,560
And what kind of feedback are
you getting?

369
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,000
Yeah, we had great feedback on
the beta testing.

370
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,640
We sent that out to a class at
Wake Forest.

371
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,640
One of our professors teaches an
hex class so and threat to all

372
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,040
different types of majors, you
know, literally everyone in the

373
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,720
school because it's a divisional
class where a Woodward school

374
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,040
and all the students for the
most part gave it, you know, A7

375
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,880
or above on a scale, give us
great feedback and then we send

376
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,760
it out to, you know, obviously
family friends, some other

377
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,160
groups around Wake Forest in the
community.

378
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,840
And then Hampton sent some out
of Georgetown and the feedback

379
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,280
was most of the feedback was we
wish that we the voices were a

380
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,200
little bit better, like more
human, because right now the

381
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,960
voices are off Azure AI.
So they they definitely are

382
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,600
they're good, they're decent.
They could there's definitely

383
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,720
room for improvement.
Like to get to that calm high

384
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,920
space level, we're going to hire
voice actors and implement that

385
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,079
into the text to speech.
But that was pretty much the

386
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:11,480
feedback.
But then they also said too a

387
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,119
lot of feedback was that they
liked that it actually was like

388
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,000
it was actually helping them for
what they were going through in

389
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,880
the moment, which was pretty
rewarding for me because like I

390
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,359
said, the whole reason we wanted
to do this was because it was a

391
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,240
resource for what we wanted at
the time, what we needed at the

392
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,040
time.
When you don't want to reach out

393
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,080
to somebody, but you can have,
you know, technology the right

394
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,080
way, like help someone, right.
So that was the most rewarding

395
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,800
piece we made was this is
actually helping.

396
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,880
So then that made me feel pretty
good.

397
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,280
Yeah, so you, you developed a
resource that people can keep

398
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:45,840
private.
Correct.

399
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,720
Yes, Sir.
And all the things that you

400
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,400
tried and used or experimented
with to to get yourself out of

401
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,720
your, your own struggles.
Is there a particular practice,

402
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,360
program or book that that has
helped you the most that you

403
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:03,840
want you want to share?
The Bible, Yeah.

404
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,560
No, that's the that's the book
of life, the greatest love story

405
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,280
I've ever written.
And if anyone's ever you're

406
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,280
struggling with anything, I'd
encourage you to pick it up.

407
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,360
Start in John.
You just read.

408
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,440
I mean it's and celebrate it.
That's still just give you

409
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,200
peace.
The way I want to live my life

410
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,200
is in Quorum DAO, which that
means like living in the

411
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,040
presence of God.
So yeah, definitely get in the

412
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,840
word.
But outside of that, you know,

413
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,920
there's there's a lot of great
resources out there.

414
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,520
You know, whether that like if
you're a young kid, like you're

415
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,520
in my shoes, it's a college guy
or you're in a high schooler,

416
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,240
you know, we're still attached
to our phones, unfortunately,

417
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,960
because that's, you know, that's
the generation we grew up in.

418
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,400
Social media is very prominent
right now.

419
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,920
So even if you don't use a send,
use an app like headspace, use

420
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,680
an app like call experiment,
breathwork, insight timer, find

421
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,120
the app that's right for you.
And these apps, they're great

422
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:54,920
because they're, you can
download them in a couple of

423
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,720
seconds on your phone and become
more mindful and just

424
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,600
accelerate.
I think another thing too, that

425
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,040
I'd say is find a groove.
You know, community is really

426
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,560
important and like, like
literally what you're doing

427
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,080
right now, your podcast is
amazing.

428
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,480
You're spreading awareness and
that's that's really important.

429
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,000
So I'd encourage anybody, you
know, just to never be afraid to

430
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,600
ask for help, never be afraid to
speak and join a group and just

431
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,720
grow together because at the end
of the day, life's about

432
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,120
relationships.
I truly believe that.

433
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:28,400
So, you know, continue to grow
each other every day and you

434
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,760
know, you'll get to where you
want to be.

435
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,440
You're never alone.
Earlier we talked about the, the

436
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,840
stigma and you, you believed you
had to act, not act.

437
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,680
You had to be the the tough
football player and and not risk

438
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,200
any weakness.
Was that something that was

439
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,600
consciously taught to you or
picked up by peers?

440
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,640
Or, you know, how do you think
that that came to be your

441
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,520
mindset?
Yeah, no, that's, that's another

442
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,320
great question.
I think it's, it's you're, you

443
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,280
know, you're especially the kid,
you're probably in your

444
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,520
environment, right, Who you're
hanging out with, what you're

445
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,880
being taught.
That kind of shapes, you know.

446
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,800
Your mindset, right, because
when you're growing up, your

447
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,280
mind is such a sponge,
especially as a kid and you

448
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,280
know, always just trying to, I
think that like with society

449
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,600
too, like just trying to fit in,
just be like the cool kid per SE

450
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,560
and as well as like with
coaches, you know, like just

451
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,120
make like football's a business,
especially in college, right?

452
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,960
Like you got to do things a
certain way or else you're not

453
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,040
playing, you're not coming back.
So I would say that, you know,

454
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,360
that stigma of being a football
player of, you know, trying to

455
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,920
be something you're not, there's
like cool kids, like trying to

456
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,080
fit into like the popular group
that creates a false sense of

457
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,200
the ego.
And I think that drove my ego,

458
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,640
especially as you know, until I
got to myself until it like, I

459
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,680
really got it broken down until
the Lord like broke that.

460
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,960
And I feel like once you lose
that ego, you become a lot more

461
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,200
mindful and you become more
present.

462
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,040
That's when you like, you truly
like wake up and you realize,

463
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,680
you know what, we're here to
serve one another.

464
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,520
We're here to love one another.
And you know, at the end of the

465
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,280
day, it's one love, right?
So when I walk around and say, I

466
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,360
just want to smile, give
everyone a handshake, give them

467
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,080
a hug and just tell them that
they're loved.

468
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,800
And, you know, before I didn't
really have that because I was,

469
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,280
I was blind right to being able
to wake up, you know, losing

470
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,440
that sense of ego.
I mean, that's that's the best

471
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,040
thing that ever happened to me.
Does anything come to top of

472
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,680
mind if I ask you about one
thing you wish more men knew?

473
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,200
One thing I wish more men knew,
I think there's a lot of things.

474
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,320
I think the first one is I wish
more men knew how to like how

475
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,040
important it is to read books.
I think there's a lot of there's

476
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,680
a lot of really good writing out
there, especially from a lot of

477
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,840
old writers that passed on a lot
of wisdom.

478
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:52,200
And I think especially with the
guys that are my age, they don't

479
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,600
like reading books, you know,
and that's cool.

480
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,720
Listen to an audio book.
But I think learning from as

481
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,400
many people as you can and kind
of their experiences, what they

482
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,320
went through cannot.
You don't want to really steal

483
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,280
the way they think, but it can
reshape the way you think.

484
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,240
And that's something that can
only help you and grow up.

485
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,080
The other thing too, that I want
to mention about that is someone

486
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,200
that I actually read were pretty
recently that I think could help

487
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,680
out a lot of men is I was
reading a book.

488
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,840
It's called the seven habits of
highly effective people.

489
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,960
And he talks about the 7th
habit, right?

490
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,440
So he talks about these first
six and these first six habits

491
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,760
are great.
They kind of formulate, you

492
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,840
know, how basically be
successful in life.

493
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,160
And the 7th habit is all about
self-care, like taking care of

494
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:32,800
yourself, right?
And he breaks it up into four

495
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,160
distinct phases.
He he says you got your

496
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,320
emotional, emotional and your
social, you got your physical,

497
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,240
you got your mental and you got
your spiritual and you got to

498
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,000
recharge each one of these
batteries to be able to function

499
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,840
in your life to do the best of
your ability, right?

500
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,720
I really like started thinking
about thinking at the heart and

501
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,240
I'm like, what does that look
like?

502
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,120
So I would tell men to take care
of those four aspects of their

503
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:58,000
life, whether that's the
physical, go on a walk, like if

504
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,920
you like lifting weights, lift
weights, you like, you want to

505
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,600
do some push ups, your house, do
that great.

506
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,840
But that will set you up to be
able to think and clearly the

507
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,280
rest of your day, right?
So I'll take care of the

508
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,200
physical walk in nature.
The trees are beautiful, you

509
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,160
know, and then it's take care of
the mental.

510
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,400
That's reading books, that's
doing what we're doing now,

511
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,600
networking, like building these
relationships, which also fits

512
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,240
into the social and the
emotional, which is, you know,

513
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,200
build your network, talk to more
people, and just take care of

514
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,960
yourself.
You know, strengthen your

515
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,240
emotional intelligence there.
And then the most important in

516
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,000
my opinion, is the spiritual,
you know, whether if you're a

517
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,760
Christian, get in the word.
If you're not, find a way to

518
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,800
meditate, become connected, find
your higher sense of purpose,

519
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,960
why you're on this earth.
Find your why.

520
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,960
And that will carry you anywhere
you want to go.

521
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,320
So I would tell men to take care
of those four distinct phases,

522
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,680
to elevate themselves and those
around them and just serve one

523
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,200
another.
At the end of the day, just be

524
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,960
serving leadership.
Excellent Walker.

525
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,440
What are you most proud?
Of most proud of the thing I'm

526
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:10,520
the most proud of, I would say
is my buddy Michael Kern.

527
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,360
He was a quarterback here at
Wake Forest.

528
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,120
He is one of the most Christian
guys you'll ever meet.

529
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:22,000
He's so spiritually gifted, so
wise, and he's somebody that I

530
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,480
admire and I look up to every
day truthfully.

531
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,000
And, you know, when I was in
those tough times, I didn't

532
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,280
really have this like we was.
He was always there for me.

533
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,040
He showed me love, tried to
bring me up, and he broke me out

534
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,080
of some dark harms through that
community aspect, right.

535
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,880
And this year especially,
spreading the word and bringing

536
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,000
more people to like AIA Bible
study.

537
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,360
The greatest compliment I ever
got in my life was from Michael

538
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:51,040
Kern.
He told me that he was proud of

539
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,880
me, he loved me, and he told
other people that he was proud

540
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,400
that I had spread the light,
spread the good news and that I

541
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,280
was following Christ and hearing
that come from a guy like him,

542
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,760
like throw everything else aside
like a sand football school,

543
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,040
like everything.
Hearing those words from that

544
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,360
caliber of a man like that, I
just, I, I get goosebumps just

545
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:17,960
thinking about it.
So that's the, that's what I'm

546
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,840
most proud of is the way that
people say that I'm helping them

547
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,880
in their lives and, you know,
bringing more people to the

548
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,200
Kingdom.
Yeah.

549
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,840
Because at the end of the day,
I, we're going to, everything's

550
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,000
going to go.
We all get 6 feet under.

551
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,760
And I want to be remembered as
somebody that made other

552
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,560
people's lives better, impacted
them and you know, left.

553
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,000
I want to leave the lasting
impact.

554
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,320
There's a guy that was loved and
showed love to others and that

555
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,640
goes far beyond any a
accomplishment that's on paper

556
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,640
all.
Right.

557
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,120
Well, great.
And in that sense, what are you

558
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:55,040
looking forward to most looking
forward?

559
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,520
To most, I'd say growing Ascent,
you know, we're pretty, we're

560
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,240
still pretty early on.
You know, we have about 30

561
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,240
subscribers right now and 300
active users, but it's been like

562
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,760
I said, three weeks.
So just continuing to grow that,

563
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,160
you know, more podcasts, super
grateful to be on yours and just

564
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,280
kind of spread the words, share
my story, share the company's

565
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,320
story and kind of see where it
goes.

566
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,640
And to be honest with you too,
ever since the send it started

567
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,680
too, I felt this like eagerness
sneaks out of bed every morning.

568
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,520
It's just like a drive and it's
an excitement.

569
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,320
And I'm just ready to, you know,
send emails, network on

570
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,000
LinkedIn, hop on podcasts, you
know, read.

571
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,640
And that's what I'm looking more
important to is growing to send.

572
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,840
But more importantly, building
relationships and, you know,

573
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,160
building relationships and
spreading, spreading the good

574
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,920
news, that's what I'm most
excited for.

575
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,280
Do you have an ideal dream
vision for what Ascend could be?

576
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,960
Yes, I do Ham and I can't let
Ham and I talk about that all

577
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,440
the time.
I wanted Shen to become a

578
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,040
lifestyle brand that grows.
I wanted, I want to break up

579
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,960
into the app into like multiple
different apps, like a Christian

580
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,480
app, a workout app, meditation
app, like all different phases,

581
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,760
as well as, you know,
potentially like merchandise,

582
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,080
you know, start our own podcast
and just it's limitless, you

583
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,680
know, with like hard work, a
great team and a belief and a

584
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,240
vision, I truly believe you can
do anything.

585
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,640
So I'm excited to explore that.
And you know, I see it really

586
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,480
growing in the next couple of
years and helping so many people

587
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,080
with whatever they're going
through.

588
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,840
And I can't wait to continue to
share their stories on our

589
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,120
social media pages.
So that's helping you

590
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:37,520
whatsoever.
Please send me a e-mail, contact

591
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,440
me.
I'd love to talk to you, hear

592
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,920
your story and see how we can
spread, you know, help you out

593
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,040
as well.
So that's what I'm most ready

594
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,720
for inside for.
Cool.

595
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,520
All right then, then what is the
best way for people to keep in

596
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,560
touch with you, track how Ascend
is doing, everything else that

597
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,920
that evolves from this?
Yeah, I think the best way to

598
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,640
see what it sends up to is
through Instagram, LinkedIn or

599
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,360
Facebook.
Those pages, all the eventual

600
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,960
updates we post every day there
as well as if you have an e-mail

601
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,160
for us, you can feel free to
contact me at Walker Ferguson at

602
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,440
Ascend Meditations dot app.
Also if you go to our website,

603
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,920
there's a contact us page.
But I'm always more than happy

604
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,000
to meet with anybody, hear their
story and, you know, see if

605
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,480
there's ways that we can improve
the user experience and make it

606
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,840
better for them so.
I, I said this I think for the

607
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,400
first time after I talked to 16
year old Ruben run Acres

608
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,200
recently on real midfield.
And you had said you had heard

609
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,440
that show too.
And I really say I, I feel it

610
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,120
again, meeting more young men
like yourself.

611
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,440
I just feel so much better about
the future.

612
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,400
Your future will is longer than
mine.

613
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,000
And I think the the world's in
good hands with, with men like

614
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,040
yourself, you know?
Yeah, you're, you're truly our

615
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,760
blessing, Andy.
I really appreciate you having

616
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,920
me on.
And now you're doing a beautiful

617
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:56,840
thing.
You really are.

618
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,200
You're doing something that is a
silent killer and I'm so

619
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,240
thankful to be on your show.
And the last thing I'll say too,

620
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,920
you know, it's 2025.
It's a great day to restart.

621
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,120
We are going to do a promo too
for a sand where we'll be like

622
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,560
half off on subscriptions for
the new year after the first

623
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,080
month.
So I'd encourage you to get on

624
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
and, you know, try out the ad
and see what we think.

625
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,880
And I wish everyone a, you know,
a blessed 2025.

626
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,520
Well, Walker, thanks for
reaching out and I'm glad you

627
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,840
did.
Thanks for all the work you've

628
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,560
done on yourself and then being
of service to the rest of the

629
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,960
world.
You know, that's something I

630
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:34,200
didn't learn growing up that how
how joyful that is and how much

631
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,800
meaning like, you know, I find
that.

632
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,680
We.
Create the meaning in our life

633
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,280
and I'm I'm glad you're doing.
That's a beautiful thing.

634
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,080
I really appreciate that.
Cool.

635
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,200
And thanks for everyone for
listening to us.

636
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,600
Please visit realmenfeel.org.
It's a blog post for this

637
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,360
episode.
We'll have various links and

638
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,720
resources mentioned.
Wherever you're discovering Real

639
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,680
Men feel, please subscribe,
follow, like, share this episode

640
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,480
with somebody, post a review or
a comment.

641
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,440
And if you're not sure where
you're going, it's pretty

642
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,360
impossible to get there.
So if you want 2025 to be the

643
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,680
best year yet for your life, I
invite you to book a free

644
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,120
Clarity call with me.
We'll explore where you want to

645
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,040
go and what's in your way.
Visit theandygrant.com/talk.

646
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,840
And until next time, be good to
yourself.