Connecting Through Trauma | Life-Changing Stories

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Greetings, and welcome to real
men.

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Feel, this is your host author
coach and healer and he Grant

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please visit v&e Grant.com to
learn more about me.

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Real man.
Feels mission is to remind men

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that they are human beings and
they have the right to

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experience and express all of
their emotions.

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We have conversations that most
men are not having but that all

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men can benefit from.
I believe the only definition of

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masculinity that matters is
yours.

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You know, when life gets hard, a
lot of men withdraw They talked

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even less than normal in the
face of a Health Challenge to

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yourself or a loved one.
You might be more willing to

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talk about the logistics and
tasks as opposed to the

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emotional impact.
Luckily, my guest today is not

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most men, he believes in having
hard conversations with people

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going through.
Trauma.

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David Richmond is an author
public speaker and endurance

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athlete whose mission is to form
more meaningful, human

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connections through storytelling
with his most recent book cycle

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of lives, David shares stories.
Stories of people overcoming

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trauma and delves deeply into
their emotional Journeys with

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cancer.
Welcome to Rio and feel David.

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Thank you, Andy, very excited to
talk to you.

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Cool.
You know, I got to say to me the

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obvious place to start is with,
you know, what would prompt you

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to want to write a book dealing
with cancer?

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Yeah, so it wasn't just cancer.
I wanted to deal with it was, it

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was more trauma because like,
what you said in the, in the

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open, right?
We tell people tend to talk

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about, Tasks related to issues
rather than the emotions related

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to issues and long story.
But I was at a point when I was

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at a transition point in my
life, going down a path that was

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a brand new path for me that I
could see a huge long exciting

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future, right.
I hit that later in life.

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At the same time, my sister was
diagnosed with terminal brain,

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cancer her journey.
And I was very close to her.

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Her journey was was very short
and the Life journey and I

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noticed that it didn't matter
and if it was a doctor or

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friends, close family,
caregivers, you know, nurses not

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everybody was equipped to talk
about the emotional side of what

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she was going through.
And I noticed that this was a

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recurring theme and over the
couple of years subsequent.

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I was doing a lot of
fundraisers, a lot of events,

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and I just noticed that that was
a to the certain degree.

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I thought that resonated And
with every single person I came

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through at different degrees but
it certainly resonate with all

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of them like how do we start the
hard conversations around the

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emotional side of trauma?
And I didn't think that I was

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qualified for finding the
answers.

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I just wanted to shed some light
on why so that people could

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understand a little bit more
about what people are going

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through, what they have gone
through and then they can be

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more empowered to start those
hard conversations.

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So is the emotional journey of
any health challenge or any

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trauma?
Is it more than just horrible

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sadness?
Is it, is it more than just why

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me, you know, it is there more
layers to it?

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Yeah, absolutely.
And when I interviewed each

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person and not not everybody,
any was able to get super deep

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with right?
Some people.

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You just don't bond with.
I wasn't a proper listener or

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they weren't a proper talker.
We just weren't able to get

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there but the way that we framed
It and I found this very early

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on and talking to people was I
assumed that there was a very

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narrow range of emotion when it
motional responses when it came

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to such traumas.
As, you know, suicide death of a

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parent, death of a spouse,
getting a cancer.

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Diagnosis, the kind of, kind of
capital T traumas.

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I thought there was a very
narrow range of emotional

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responses, but I was wrong,
there's a very wide range of

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emotional responses and so, it
really allowed me to We'll find

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out why like why could you have
gratitude?

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Why could you have relief?
How could you feel loneliness?

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Desperation fear, some of these
things?

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I could understand but some of
them I couldn't.

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So I framed each each person's
story around both the greatest

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negative emotion that they their
experience provided to them, but

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also the greatest positive
emotion, that their experience

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gave to them.
And because Shockingly.

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A lot of times the trauma that
people go through, when they're

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able to reconcile, it ends up to
be an empowering positive thing,

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you know, a platform for the for
therefore, to launch them to

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their better future.
So that was the framing of all

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the different discussions that I
had and did each participant

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have a positive side to this?
Oh, most definitely and that is

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what it's really kind of
fascinating because I know

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before I embarked on this
project that I was guilty of not

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with everyone and not to the nth
degree, but I was guilty of

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going.
Oh man, they got bad news.

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They're probably feeling this.
I better like not say anything

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stupid, I better like I'm going
to exit, right?

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Because I don't want to, I don't
want to gauge in The Wrong

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conversation because they got to
be feeling like crap or they got

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to be so negative or what.
Absolutely, not the assumptions

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that we have about what people
are going through, are not

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founded in what they're going.
Going through their founded in

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our dumb assumptions, about what
we think they might be going

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through and we really have no
idea.

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And so, yes, the long answer to
your question, they were very

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positive aspects of people's
Journeys even if they were

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dealing with very difficult
things, there was a positive

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side to it.
Like could you imagine this?

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And again, I'm going to ask you
to reach here because you

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imagine being told that you have
brain cancer and it I'll

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probably end up killing you in
surgery, if it doesn't.

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It's certainly going to end up
killing you very shortly after.

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And could you imagine looking at
the spouse that told you that

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and saying thank God.
Thank God is cancer.

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Could you imagine the grass?
What?

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It's not possible, it's not
possible.

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You could think that and there's
no way I could think that too,

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but, but in this story, this
person's life, they were

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absolutely grateful and relieved
to hear that they were diagnosed

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with cancer because they thought
they were going crazy.

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They thought they were, they
were their anger, and their

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frustration in life and the end,
the change in their personality,

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with their spouse, and with
their beautiful kids, and with

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their Friends was due to a fact
of they were going crazy and

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over a couple of year period.
That's what they that's what she

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lived with is.
I'm literally going to have to

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turn myself into an institution
because I am going crazy when

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she found out, it was cancer,
what a relief, what it wasn't

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her, it wasn't that.
Well, do you never know?

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There could be a positive spin
to everybody's Journey, but if

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you can find out what what,
what, what?

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They're going through on an
emotional, level, it allows you

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to connect with them in a deeper
and more.

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Fanta Quay.
So you talked to 15 people for

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the book.
I talked to many more but 15

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made the book and those 15.
I spoke to, for up to maybe two,

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two and a half years to really
dive deep.

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I mean, hundreds, dozens and
hundreds of hours on some of

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them to really be get deep into
their stories.

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So yeah, I talked to more but we
weren't able to uncover

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everything we needed to uncover
to I think give the reader a

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good enough for you into you
know that lay it out, bear

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reveal it To the, you know, the
deepest deepest levels of our

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Consciousness and
subconsciousness and awareness

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and what we hide inside because
we're all hiding stuff inside.

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We could reveal that in a way
that it would help the reader.

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So but 15 made the made the cut.
How did you choose who to talk

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to, to begin with haha?
So what I wanted to do and he

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was to hit all different age
ranges, they had cancer one time

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or they were apologists who
dealt with cancer their whole

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life.
They have cancer five times.

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It was severe, it was not severe
that.

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It's just every kind of cancer.
It's just I wanted this 360 View

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and then I said, well, if when
they encounter cancer was point

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a Everything that happened
before .8, all of the young

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adult, trauma, the Adolescent,
trauma, the childhood trauma,

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the stuff that I maybe could
have a understanding about, you

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know, drug addiction or suicide
of a parent or abandonment or

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abuse or being bullied or
something like that.

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How did those traumas when point
a came along cancer?

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How do those traumas affect
their emotional journey to point

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B?
Which is today.

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So, how I found people was to
say, okay, I've got two wheels,

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we love all the different types
of cancer, ages experiences,

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whatever.
Now let me frame that around

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what I think are pretty
interesting, and relatable, and

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moving traumas, because we all
know we've all been through

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stuff.
Nobody knows what we been

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through, right?
But I wanted to shine a light on

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really interesting stories so
that I could get to kind of the

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heart of the matter.
So, when a friend says now, I

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like I'm fine.
I don't need anything.

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The really find that they really
not need anything.

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When they say, Say like when,
you know, when they're leaning

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on you for something, are you
the last person that they try?

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So you can't tell.
I mean, there's so much behind

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what you know, what's going on
with them.

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That I really wanted to bring
stories that I thought would be

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a wide range of topics and
emotions that we might be able

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to relate to So amongst all
these people and searching for

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varied experiences and and
diagnoses were their common

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themes amongst everybody.
Yes.

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So some of the common themes
were one.

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Everybody said pretty much.
I don't know why we're talking

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my life is not that interesting,
right?

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Which is shocking to me because
I didn't talk to one person

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whose life wasn't absolutely
stunningly.

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Amazingly inspiring Lee,
fantastic.

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Right?
Like so like powerful and

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they're just living their lives.
They're like, yeah, you know,

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like whatever.
But when you uncover the story,

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so each one felt that their
story was not that interesting,

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which I found fast.
I still find fascinating, so

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that was a commonality, and I'd
say it at different levels, but

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certainly consistent with
everybody's experience with

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trauma, especially as it relates
to cancer, as either a patient

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or doctor.
Whatever did matter was, some

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amount of isolation answers just
a little Weirder like that.

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Like we just don't like to talk
about it and we might be able to

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wrap our brains around an
accident.

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There, we can wrap our brains
around diabetes or we can we can

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wrap our brains around a lot of
things cancer seems to be a

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little bit kind of voodoo-like
scary otherworldly and it causes

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people to be abandoned or self
isolate because they don't want

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to bring people down or nobody
really understands what they're

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going through or it's not a
death sentence but they we think

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it is or vice versa and It's
just a really weird area.

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So I think that there was a
certain amount of isolation and

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abandonment that came with with
this type of trauma

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specifically.
So that makes me think of the

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assumption that you discovered.
As kind of the, the others, the

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the nobody I don't believe.
Anyone has had becomes an adult

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without trauma at some level,
but the people not the, not the

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participants of your book, but
their friends and family, make

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assumptions about not wanting to
obsess.

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Them but it sounds like they all
make their own assumptions to

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about not wanting to upset him
nose and choosing self-isolation

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we're all every parties making
assumptions about the others.

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Yeah no no questions.
Absolutely true and I'm going to

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tell you there's not a person
listening that won't relate to

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this.
I was recently talking to a

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woman she said, listen, I had a
dad who was the kind of dad that

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was like, man.
You don't show weakness like

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he's like, the man of the
family, he's got the

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responsibility, he takes that
responsibility.

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Bility.
It's not a burden.

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It's who he is.
It's the way men are.

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It's the way the family is a
table, right?

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And I could totally relate to, I
can have a picture of her dad,

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right?
Then, her dad gets stomach,

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cancer.
Gets very, very sick, he's

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eventually on hospice and really
there's nobody else around by

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00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,000
her, okay?
And she's kind of got to take

228
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,400
care of him.
You know, take the feeding tube

229
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,000
in and out.
I mean really really, really

230
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,200
take care of him.
And you can imagine how

231
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,300
uncomfortable that was for both
of them because that's not the

232
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,700
Namek, he doesn't get help.
He doesn't, you don't ask him if

233
00:13:01,708 --> 00:13:04,300
he needs help, right?
Who can't relate to that.

234
00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:07,600
So he ended up passing away and
I asked her, I said, you know,

235
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,100
geez, how is that experience?
Just goes on the one side, it

236
00:13:10,108 --> 00:13:13,600
was kind of positive because I
got at least to show my dad that

237
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,800
I cared and I would do things
for him, and that wasn't a

238
00:13:15,808 --> 00:13:19,000
burden to help him.
I got some positive, I go,

239
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,800
what's the -?
And she said, you know, I just

240
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,300
never had the guts to ask him,
how he felt.

241
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,300
How he felt about what he was
going through was just like, I

242
00:13:26,308 --> 00:13:29,500
didn't want to put him in an
uncomfortable position to say.

243
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:31,800
Geez, dad, what does it feel
like to die?

244
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,800
Like, how are you doing,
emotionally?

245
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,100
Like she goes.
I just couldn't go there with

246
00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:38,400
him and I thought to myself,
man.

247
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,500
Oh man, is that an opportunity
missed?

248
00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:44,600
And I totally get it.
I totally understand it.

249
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,200
And she was like, man, you know,
like if I could go do it again,

250
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,000
I would make myself comfortable
and ask those questions and, and

251
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,500
that's what I'm trying to do
with the book.

252
00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:55,900
Anecdotally.
Did you notice anything for

253
00:13:55,900 --> 00:14:00,600
people that had a lot or a
little trauma before the cancer

254
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,100
did they were they more or less
resilient?

255
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:04,700
Did they handle it in different
ways with it?

256
00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:06,200
Was there any sort of
correlation you could come up

257
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,900
with now?
I think that the only Common

258
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:16,100
Thread throughout was that some
people had reconciled some of

259
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:19,300
that trauma.
And they could have some

260
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:23,700
perspective around reconciling
it and usually if they were able

261
00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:29,000
to come to terms with some of
that earlier life trauma, then

262
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,300
the relationships that they were
able to form or the depth of the

263
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:36,400
connection, they were able to
form while they were going

264
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,300
through cancer or a loved one
was going through cancer.

265
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:43,100
They it helped them so let me
give an example.

266
00:14:43,108 --> 00:14:46,500
Okay, so the one of the people
in the book is Doc is dr.

267
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:48,500
Myers.
She's an oncologist Then why you

268
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:50,700
have been on a college for 40
years?

269
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,100
When I spoke to her and her
story was kind of to folded one

270
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:57,700
of it was that her father had
abandoned her when she was a

271
00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:00,900
child and then add the family
when she was a child.

272
00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:05,600
And that was that was a lot of
trauma to go through right and

273
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,200
early in her career as an
oncologist and he she kind of

274
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,800
psyched took patients.
And if they wanted to do things,

275
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,700
she didn't agree with.
If they didn't take her advice,

276
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,500
she kind of Let It Go.
Okay, I'm a doctor there.

277
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:23,400
There won't be people whatever,
but then, like, 30 years later,

278
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,600
she's had a beautiful marriage.
She's raised a daughter.

279
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,200
She's had this wonderful family
like that.

280
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,400
She never got to enjoy as a
child and that desperation.

281
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,200
She felt that people would take
her advice because she was such

282
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,700
a good oncologist.
And now she had the perspective

283
00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:43,900
to understand if you don't take
my advice, if you don't follow

284
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:46,800
what I'm telling you do, you
might possibly lose out like I

285
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,700
know.
Know what a good life.

286
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:51,000
You guy know how order great
mother.

287
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,600
You could be.
I know what a great daughter you

288
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,000
could be like you, please don't
take a chance or not taking my

289
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,300
advice.
Take my man.

290
00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:00,600
Yeah.
So that was she reconcile that

291
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,300
trauma and used it to her
benefit to really connect and

292
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,300
really go after her patients to
say, listen, man.

293
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:10,000
I know what you can miss out on,
right.

294
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,900
I know what you can make and
please please, please, you don't

295
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:15,100
like, let me care for you in
that way.

296
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:19,400
And if people didn't really jump
on On board with her program.

297
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,700
She said I can't handle it.
I can't.

298
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:26,400
I can't see you as a patient
because you're possibly going to

299
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,700
lose what I could.
Maybe help you get right?

300
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:32,100
And so that was a very big
positive for her.

301
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,900
Yeah, that's amazing.
So it says, as she healed and

302
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:38,900
discovered, how magnificent her
life could be perhaps better

303
00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:41,900
than she ever imagined, she
became much more adamant and

304
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:45,600
encouraging other people to do
their hardest work to live.

305
00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:51,500
Yes, so Were definitely back to
your original point is, you

306
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:54,800
know, kind of what, you know,
what was the theme there is that

307
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,100
if they had come to terms with
some of that young adult trauma

308
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:01,500
or had understood it.
Like, I talked to another guy

309
00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:05,599
who wonderful man.
He's just a, he's literally a

310
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:09,599
gem of the world and we kind of
talked about something that

311
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,300
became very, very uncomfortable
for him to talk about because he

312
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:13,599
hadn't talked to anybody about
it.

313
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,099
And that was it when he was six,
he walked in on his mom.

314
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:20,400
I'm taking Her on life and it
was just absolutely tragic.

315
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,400
And it took a while for us to
develop the trust to be able to

316
00:17:23,408 --> 00:17:28,200
talk about that he could imagine
how just in a thousand different

317
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,000
ways that could affect somebody
in a negative way and throughout

318
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,700
his cancer experience.
As a young male, a young Latino

319
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:39,700
male, no possible way he would
ever let anybody in to give him

320
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:43,600
any help because the underlying
issue was they were going to

321
00:17:43,608 --> 00:17:45,000
abandon him, they were going to
leave him.

322
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:50,100
And you feel for that.
And so he was able to eventually

323
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,700
reconcile that eventually get to
peace with it eventually, accept

324
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:57,200
the trauma that he had gone
through and try to frame it and

325
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,700
move past it and that allowed
him in his life, in many other

326
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:04,200
areas to start, to open up, to
start, to trust people to start,

327
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,400
to be able to lean on people,
knowing that they weren't going

328
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,700
to leave him, but he had to be,
he had to get in touch with

329
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:11,800
himself.
He had to have to reconcile

330
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,000
those.
Those emotions in that, trauma,

331
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,400
in order to get to that place.
One was very fresh.

332
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,000
One was very in those two
stories.

333
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,100
One was over several decades.
So, you know, that's kind of

334
00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,200
some of the common themes that
we talked about.

335
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,000
And you've mentioned fear of
Abandonment, a number of times

336
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,100
already both from because of
having cancer and also from

337
00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:37,100
prior traumas could creating
that fear.

338
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,500
So, it was that kind of was that
the most common.

339
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,100
Let's see, fear that people are
at least aware of.

340
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:46,000
Yeah, at different levels.
And again, I don't want to make

341
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,900
any Assumption Andy.
But I'll bet you that there is

342
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:52,200
every single person listening
has somebody in their life that

343
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,000
they know is going through
something really, really

344
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,400
difficult or they can picture a
time in their life.

345
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,400
When somebody in the life was
going through something

346
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,000
difficult.
And you are like man, I was

347
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,200
going to call them last week but
I didn't know it's been two

348
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,100
weeks.
I don't know what the hell to

349
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:06,100
say.
I better not call because I

350
00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:07,700
don't know how bad it is.
How do I call and say?

351
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,200
How are you doing?
Because I'm such an idiot

352
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,300
because I didn't call a month
ago and now and then you just

353
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:19,100
kind of Arm and keep your
distance and hope that y'all can

354
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:20,700
figure the way to deal with it
on it.

355
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,300
You know, I got the phone and
call people that there's, you

356
00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:27,900
know what I'm saying.
I mean, people people get

357
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:33,600
avoided because they their
people, their circle of people

358
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,800
don't want to say the wrong
thing.

359
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,400
They don't want to do the wrong
thing.

360
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,800
They don't want to encroach and
the people that are going

361
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,700
through, the trauma are going.
Why is everybody afraid to talk

362
00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:46,100
to me?
Why is everybody afraid to?

363
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:48,000
Encroach on my feelings.
Yeah.

364
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,700
And I think in my experience I
find that that I don't want to

365
00:19:51,708 --> 00:19:53,700
upset them.
Further is a lie.

366
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:56,800
I'll tell myself it really is.
I don't want to, I don't want to

367
00:19:56,808 --> 00:19:58,800
feel the discomfort.
I don't want to be depressed by

368
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,100
having a call with somebody.
So I'll assume that, that's how

369
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:03,800
they already are.
And I can't help.

370
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,200
But yep.
And even when I was not here

371
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,400
that, I mean, it feels me sad.
Yeah.

372
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:10,400
And it's art.
Well, that's why.

373
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,200
If we can all If we can all
choose to assume the truth about

374
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,300
what really avoiding yeah, just
make that you even if say your

375
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:22,200
something is right and someone
feels horrible and they want to

376
00:20:22,208 --> 00:20:25,300
be isolated.
Worst thing that happens is they

377
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:30,100
don't answer your call or you
discovered that you were wrong

378
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,200
and they're glad to hear from
you.

379
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,900
Like there's, truly is no
downside beyond what we create

380
00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:36,800
in our mind about it.
Yep.

381
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:41,500
But, in terms of other trauma as
well, like, I was suicidal and

382
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:45,600
made multiple Multiple attempts
on my life in my teens and 20s.

383
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,400
And I can remember, Believing
that if anybody knew how bad I

384
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,800
really felt inside like they
would run.

385
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,800
So I, I would not risk that fear
of Abandonment.

386
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,700
Like I lie self abandoned iself
isolated, and I don't have to

387
00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:02,900
worry about anybody else but so,
it does show up in every sort of

388
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:05,900
type of trauma.
As, as you have already shared

389
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:10,200
and Andy, I gotta ask you, it's
a probably equal question, is it

390
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,900
scarier that people might not
care or is it scarier that

391
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:18,000
people would care?
Do you know, like You could

392
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,900
answer that both ways, right?
If people really leaned into

393
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,700
you, opening up to them.
Isn't that potentially just as

394
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,200
scary as if they ran away, when
you told them, right?

395
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,000
And so if you don't know how to
connect with people, they either

396
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,300
answer could work, right?
And so the question is is I

397
00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:38,500
believe if we're fortunate
enough to get to the end of our

398
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,800
Lives, we really only have two
sides of a coin.

399
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:46,200
One side of the coin says, did I
maximize the relationships that

400
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,100
were close to me?
Did I Tentacley in a meaningful

401
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:51,300
way.
Did my life matter to even one

402
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:53,500
person?
Make it matter to several but

403
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:55,800
didn't matter to even when
personality maximize those

404
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,400
connections and the other side
of the coin was, what regrets do

405
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,900
I have that?
I didn't do those things, right?

406
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:05,200
I didn't connect with people on
a tentacle a, I didn't I didn't

407
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,000
live my true self.
I didn't allow people to Love Me

408
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,400
Like These are or they I didn't
I didn't show them that, I love

409
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,100
them.
So the Gratitude and the regret.

410
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,300
And so I think that when you can
An sometimes I might hurt

411
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:22,800
because you might open up and
somebody might abandon you, but

412
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,900
that's just as bad as not
opening up and not giving a

413
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,800
person a chance to embrace you
in my opinion.

414
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:31,600
And I find on the other side.
Once you go through any

415
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,600
so-called negative emotion,
there's there's relief.

416
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:38,800
There's joy it lessons and even
if even if two people are

417
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,400
horrible and miserable but
together that almost that should

418
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,700
experience makes a light come
out of that even as well.

419
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,300
I agree.
I agree and I wanted to ask if

420
00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:52,900
everybody, you talk to what was
interested in the same level of

421
00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:55,200
support, but from already from
the stories you've shared, they

422
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:59,400
answer is no, but yeah, no,
absolutely not some people were

423
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:04,900
were 100% in charge of their own
Journey, you know, they

424
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:08,300
journaled, they made the
decisions, they saw the doctors,

425
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:11,400
they pressed.
They they, you know, kept it all

426
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,600
in stride.
I mean, some people were were

427
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,300
Masters at at driving the bus
other people.

428
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:19,600
We're like I don't even know
what the hell bus to get on,

429
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,300
right and so no judgment that
all it.

430
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:26,700
We're all we're all capable and
or incapable depending on you

431
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:30,100
know what number of factors.
So it just is what it is and I

432
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,000
don't I'm not trying to find the
answers.

433
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,500
I'm just trying to shine a light
on it so we know how better to

434
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,400
talk to people.
We know how better to interact

435
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,900
with them so yeah, absolutely,
some people took it in stride

436
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:44,600
and didn't ever look back and
some people only ever look back,

437
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:47,400
right?
And and and both are okay.

438
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,100
So, none of the people that you
interviewed were people that you

439
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:55,200
knew already is that correct?
I know a couple of them.

440
00:23:56,300 --> 00:24:00,200
Yeah, I known a couple of them,
but I didn't really know them.

441
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,700
Right.
I didn't know they're not true

442
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:05,900
stories, you know?
Yeah, I could tell you one super

443
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:07,400
quick.
I mean, she was a, she was a

444
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,000
physician OBGYN, had
non-cancerous tumors on her

445
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,900
brain, and they forced her to
retire early.

446
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:20,300
Really crazy had horrible
migraines.

447
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:23,100
I won't get into the whole
story, but just it's a terrible

448
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:27,600
life for several years.
Young young kids husband, we

449
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,600
were great friends and I knew
the struggles that she was going

450
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,700
through with regards to that,
but when I asked her, hey, would

451
00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:37,100
you talk to me and tell me, you
know, a little bit more about

452
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:38,900
your life in frame about the
stuff.

453
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:43,700
The things that I uncovered
about her were just shocking.

454
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,400
She was on one of the last boats
to leave Vietnam.

455
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:52,500
The fall of Saigon came to
America as a young child with a

456
00:24:52,508 --> 00:24:56,300
family, had experienced just
absolutely heart-wrenching

457
00:24:56,500 --> 00:25:02,000
discrimination.
Had you know, forcibly you know,

458
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,000
I can't get at the horrible
childhood grow up to be this

459
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,200
beautiful caring.
Wonderful doctor who wanted

460
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,600
nothing more than to to help
people build families and take

461
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,700
care of them and and that was
stripped away from Her.

462
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:19,600
And I knew it was stripped away
from her, but I didn't know how

463
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:25,300
much it meant to her.
And so, so just the fact that

464
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:29,800
people a few people that I knew
gave me a space to uncover all

465
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,200
the hidden things I didn't know
about them that you and I don't

466
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,000
have for 10 years.
I've known her husband for ten

467
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,700
years before that.
I didn't know those things, but

468
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:41,100
when people want to get people
really want to help others, it's

469
00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:43,000
shocking.
The link still go to to help

470
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,900
them.
So, what did you do to get

471
00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:48,700
people to open up and share so
deeply that often tell you

472
00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:50,600
things that they hadn't told
anybody else?

473
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,400
Well, you do this too, right?
I mean you just by interviewing

474
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,200
as you give people a safe space,
you active.

475
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,200
Listen and I wasn't able to bond
with everyone and neither, were

476
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,700
they able to bond with me?
But the people that, that we

477
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:08,700
were able to do that?
It just, it was safety.

478
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,900
It was, it was being a safe
place, I'm not judging, I'm not

479
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,100
Coming up with a solution.
I'm not preaching.

480
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:20,000
I'm not waiting for you to
preach to me all we're trying to

481
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:25,600
do is examine because look, I
mean, I can't imagine just from

482
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,100
the very little you told me and
be there is or has been a hell

483
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,200
of a lot of unpacking going on
with issues that you've gone

484
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,100
through in your life, right?
I mean I have a friend who says

485
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:37,400
to me David, you know what every
day.

486
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,300
I just with the hardest thing
for me to realize is that

487
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:42,900
today's not the day, I'm going
to put a gun to my head and I'm

488
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:45,600
like, man, he goes, oh, that's
kind of lesser level of

489
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:46,300
depression.
I have.

490
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:48,700
But at least I know it.
He goes, I don't think I'll ever

491
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:51,200
get there again.
I'm like, dude, you have so much

492
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,900
crap to unpack.
It's unbelievably goes.

493
00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,600
Yeah, he goes out.
I don't know if I ever will, but

494
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,700
I right.
So we talked about it, you just,

495
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,900
you just never know.
So, so I think that, what, what

496
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:06,800
was a blessing for me?
Was that I found people who

497
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,600
said, oh, if I reveal like
everything that might help

498
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,300
someone.
Okay.

499
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,100
Okay, let's, let's try and
sometimes we were able to go

500
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:17,900
there.
Sometimes we weren't, but when

501
00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:21,900
we were able to go, there was
pretty magical and would it be

502
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:25,800
the same advice for people?
Writing books, but wanting to

503
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,700
connect deeply to the people
dealing with trauma in their

504
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:31,200
lives.
Yeah, it's don't be afraid to

505
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,700
ask the hard questions right now
again, not everybody can talk.

506
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:37,500
Maybe you're not able to talk to
everyone.

507
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,100
But when people are going
through difficult times,

508
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:47,900
especially when it comes to, you
know, those big major traumas, I

509
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:56,400
think really actively listening,
actively probing like take away

510
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,400
the guilt of I should probably
not be asking you this because

511
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,700
it's gonna take away all the
guilt, you know, all the BS and

512
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:07,300
just give it a shot.
I really think more times than

513
00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:10,900
not.
I would say, honestly, if I did

514
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:14,800
offend anybody with the depth of
the question, with the probing

515
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,200
type of personal stuff that I
had asked, even if they didn't

516
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,500
make the book, If I had offended
and I didn't know, right?

517
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:24,300
Because I'm going to assume that
I didn't.

518
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,800
It's just sometimes we were able
to go there.

519
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,300
Sometimes we weren't, but nobody
ever said the hell you doing.

520
00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:32,200
You can't ask me that.
That's none of your business.

521
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,500
I'm not going to tell you that
not never one time in years of

522
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,400
talking to dozens and dozens and
dozens.

523
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:42,300
People.
So it really made me II want to

524
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:46,400
guess that going into it.
What do you hope readers take

525
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,200
away from the book.
Well, I have got a lot of

526
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,600
feedback about what readers have
taken away from the book and I

527
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,000
just hope more do that.
Because what I want them to take

528
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,900
away is a little bit more of an
understanding that there's

529
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:06,000
possibly more behind Andy story.
The, and I know that there's

530
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,900
possibly more that he's gone
through or that he's going

531
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:13,300
through that, I just haven't
been a party to, he hasn't

532
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:15,000
opened up.
We haven't had that kind of

533
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,600
relationship.
It hasn't the need to unpack

534
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,000
that stuff hasn't arisen.
And whatever.

535
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:24,200
But if you're having a really
difficult day or a difficult

536
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,600
time or I'm having a difficult
day or difficult time and we

537
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,000
have an opportunity connect.
Maybe I'm like, oh man.

538
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,300
Yeah, like I, it's okay.
I can ask that question.

539
00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:36,500
I can probe, I could I could
risk.

540
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,300
I could risk it.
I could ask for help, I could

541
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:41,700
offer help in a real difficult
way.

542
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,500
You know what uncomforta, that
uncomfortable way that you

543
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:46,500
talked about early on.
Yeah, yeah, though.

544
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,700
How did participants?
Perhaps it was after 20 years of

545
00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:54,900
interviewing perhaps it was a
the book was out but how did

546
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:58,100
they respond?
Like what was the what I meant?

547
00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:00,300
I'm sure there was a benefit for
them for since they were sharing

548
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:02,300
things, I hadn't shared its.
Yeah unpacked.

549
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:05,200
So what do they shared?
Was there some of their outcomes

550
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,800
from being part of this book.
Yeah so there was two two camps

551
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:13,600
so one Camp was, all right I got
the project I'm going to give

552
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,500
you the free pass.
Let's let's figure out what kind

553
00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:19,700
of rides we go on.
Okay, now the sets, let's exit

554
00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:21,600
the parking.
I can go and get in our cars and

555
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,500
go home.
Okay.

556
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:25,500
That was one Camp.
It's like, okay, they were there

557
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:28,200
for the experience.
It was cathartic for either.

558
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,600
Both of us, we told the stories
and authentic deed reviewing

559
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,900
way.
Now, let's move on the other

560
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:41,800
Camp was we were really able to
have an impact on each other and

561
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,500
really talk about things that
gave people at some level a safe

562
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:51,500
space to to examine to
self-examine to At reveal all to

563
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:53,600
themselves.
Because, you know, listen, that

564
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,600
inside voice is way different
than the outside voice, and we

565
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,000
keep so much hidden when we talk
to ourselves.

566
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,100
And I dropped a 30-pound weight,
I was working out in January, in

567
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:09,300
my garage, I dropped a 30-pound
weight on my foot, right?

568
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:13,700
And I screamed bloody hell for
20 minutes, and I fell down on

569
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:16,000
the ground.
And I might have called myself a

570
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,100
blanking idiot like 500 times in
the first half.

571
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:22,700
Half hour.
And then, I said to myself, you

572
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:24,600
know what?
That was your best friend that

573
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,300
had done, that would you call
them effing idiot?

574
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:30,400
500 times.
Of course, not like dude, things

575
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,800
happen.
Like it was an accident.

576
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,300
It's not your fault.
Stop telling yourself that

577
00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:38,000
you're at that, you're an idiot.
So our inside voice is so not

578
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:44,200
kind and I think that hearing
bear outside voice about things

579
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,900
that they had had a - inside
voice on for years.

580
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:52,000
Or decades was a really helpful
thing about say that the, you

581
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,700
know, that that judging voice
that - ego is loud and our

582
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:59,900
intuition, our higher self.
That those little Hunters are

583
00:31:59,908 --> 00:32:04,100
much softer and quieter.
So if we, if we take action on

584
00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:09,800
the littlest voice that loud,
one dissipates and and one thing

585
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,700
I'm really hearing from you and
I imagine this is big take away

586
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,500
from the book when that thought,
when that person crosses your

587
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:19,500
mind because they're healthy or
ill or going through anything,

588
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:21,400
or do you have no idea what
they're going through.

589
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:24,400
Just that's the time to reach
out anytime any caught like

590
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,100
Reach Out stay in touch with
with the people.

591
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:29,500
You consider your friends and be
willing to make new friends or

592
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:32,900
even people that aren't your
friends that, you know, because

593
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:37,000
I'm gonna tell you, they're
probably feeling abandoned

594
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,700
they're probably feeling a
little bit isolated, you know.

595
00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:43,800
And I just It's hard, man.
It's hard, it's hard and bade,

596
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,400
people space, their private
lives and, you know, somebody's

597
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,500
going through something, but you
don't really want to ask and is

598
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:53,100
it proper?
It's not always but most of the

599
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:56,000
time it is I hate a vast
majority of the time.

600
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,000
It is proper to let somebody
know that you care and authentic

601
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,700
way you know, don't tell me.
Sorry don't be sympathetic don't

602
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:07,000
you know try to make it better.
Just call just reach.

603
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,100
Reach out and call somehow.
Hey, I was thinking about you,

604
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,100
you must be going through a lot.
Is there a chance you want to

605
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,100
talk about it?
I'm here, listen.

606
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,600
That's hard to do for him but
I'm telling you if you really

607
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,800
pay off.
Yeah.

608
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:24,800
And I find that, you know, I
don't say it's hard to do

609
00:33:24,808 --> 00:33:27,900
anymore, but because I've done
it enough, so sure get over that

610
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:30,100
hurdle.
Like it's a skill like anything,

611
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,900
you know, the more practice you
have, you can be, you can be

612
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:38,000
that that, that saves space,
that caring ear, that, that

613
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,000
presence, that helps people
could again.

614
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,000
It's not, you're not there to
fix something.

615
00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:46,100
You just ate a be with somebody.
Yeah, you know, I do these cold

616
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:50,200
dip Sandy every And I do a
5-minute cold dip, and and I put

617
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,800
a timer of five minutes and 13
seconds because I got to have 13

618
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,400
seconds, put down my towel, to
start the timer and to get up

619
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,300
the courage to jump into the
pool because it's so freaking

620
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:04,200
cold.
And I say to myself in the last

621
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,100
two or three seconds, I want to
tell myself.

622
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:10,000
No, I probably do a thousand
times internally at rapid speed

623
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,500
in the last two seconds.
Like don't do it.

624
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:13,000
Don't do it.
I hate this.

625
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,199
I do and I do it and that's like
you.

626
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,000
Anvil is tough thing and then I
get out and I always feel

627
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,600
better, but it doesn't lessen.
The resistance, I'm going to

628
00:34:22,607 --> 00:34:26,500
feel tomorrow, right?
And so no matter how hard it is,

629
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:28,699
no matter how uncomfortable
you're going to feel for a

630
00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:30,699
second.
You really going to be glad you

631
00:34:30,699 --> 00:34:32,800
did it.
It doesn't get any easier in my,

632
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,500
in my book, it doesn't get any
easier to start those hard

633
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:39,699
conversations, but almost every
time I do it, I feel better

634
00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:43,800
after awesome.
It's like love lives.

635
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,100
Available everywhere.
Might people might search for it

636
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:48,600
or yeah, everywhere.
We're in the good thing is, is

637
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,300
each one of the participants
pick the charity, Andy that

638
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:53,600
they, that they felt an affinity
towards.

639
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,300
And so, we're putting 100% of
the proceeds that come in to

640
00:34:57,300 --> 00:34:59,800
split up between those Charities
that are listed in the book,

641
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,100
they're listed on the website,
but most books are sold on

642
00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:06,000
Amazon, I sell signed copies,
and why do speaking gigs?

643
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,100
You know, I sell them or give
them away or signed or whatever,

644
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,300
but yeah, most books are on
Amazon.

645
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:15,100
I have a great audible.
The audible is 15 different

646
00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:17,200
actors.
I do each one of the 15.

647
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:21,300
He's, which is awesome and, and
it's available electronic or

648
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:24,400
regular book form to cool.
And what's the best way for

649
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,000
people to learn more?
About what you're up to David

650
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,900
cycle of lives?
Dot-org?

651
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,100
Lots going on there.
Awesome.

652
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:36,400
Is there anything you're looking
forward to a new book idea or

653
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,900
another version of this?
Like what?

654
00:35:37,900 --> 00:35:39,700
I got a lots of books going
fiction.

655
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:42,600
Nonfiction all the time.
It's really a passion of mine.

656
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,500
I also do expressive writing
workshops.

657
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:49,700
So I kind of help Empower people
with some tools to reframe that

658
00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:53,700
internal conversation and give
them, give an opportunity to

659
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:56,700
learn how to change the
narrative that self narrative to

660
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:59,300
themselves.
So I do a lot of those mostly to

661
00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:03,300
Trauma Centers, cancer centers,
that type of stuff, and I'm

662
00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:06,700
still doing endurance Athletics.
So, in fact, I don't know when

663
00:36:06,707 --> 00:36:10,000
this is coming out, but yeah,
this for five days and I'm doing

664
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,700
another half Ironman so, you
know, I'm staying active cool,

665
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:21,300
did anyone's In cycle of lives,
prompt them to want to write

666
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:24,700
more and share, more of their
story or anything like that, you

667
00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:26,800
know.
Yes.

668
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:31,900
Some of them are not in touch
with, okay, but a couple of

669
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:34,200
them.
Well, actually the most of them

670
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,200
were pretty active in the
community already but some they

671
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,800
were rien powered or extra
empowered, but I don't think

672
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,600
anybody's done.
I don't think anybody's

673
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,600
published anything from From
from us talking it was more of a

674
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,500
yeah I'll do this because it's
going to help others kind of

675
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:54,900
thing.
Rather than them wanting to read

676
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:56,700
their own story.
You know, reading your own story

677
00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:00,600
is a little weird, right?
Think thankfully I was able to

678
00:37:00,607 --> 00:37:02,600
get everybody to sign off on the
story to say.

679
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,700
Yeah it's accurate and you've
caught me correctly because

680
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:08,500
they're not Anonymous the real
people real names real times or

681
00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:13,400
whatever.
So yeah I think I think this was

682
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,100
kind of a one-off chapter for
them so to speak.

683
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:21,300
Well, I'm glad it's not for you.
David, I really appreciate

684
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:25,900
admire all the work you're doing
all the healing through

685
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:28,400
storytelling that that people
have available to themselves for

686
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,300
to dealing with trauma and
disease and catastrophes.

687
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,800
Yeah.
So, thanks again for joining us.

688
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,600
Thanks again for listening,
please visit real men, feel that

689
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,300
already to be a blog post for
this episode.

690
00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:41,400
They'll be plenty of links to
all the various versions of the

691
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,500
book.
More information about David as

692
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:45,700
well, wherever you're
discovering real men, feel,

693
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:48,700
please give a like a follow.
Ian do whatever the things you

694
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:50,700
can do on the platform that
you're finding us on.

695
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:53,500
You can always write me at real
men, feel at gmail.com.

696
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,700
And if you're not part of the
real men, feel private Facebook

697
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:57,800
group.
You can visit real men, feel dot

698
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,700
org, slash group and that'll
take you right there.

699
00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:05,000
Until next time, be good to
yourself and break through that

700
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,100
resistance to have the hard
conversation because the

701
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:10,700
breaking through the resistance
is the hardest part of that.

702
00:38:10,700 --> 00:37:48,700
Our conversation be well.
Ian do whatever the things you

703
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:50,700
can do on the platform that
you're finding us on.

704
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:53,500
You can always write me at real
men, feel at gmail.com.

705
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,700
And if you're not part of the
real men, feel private Facebook

706
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:57,800
group.
You can visit real men, feel dot

707
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,700
org, slash group and that'll
take you right there.

708
00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:05,000
Until next time, be good to
yourself and break through that

709
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,100
resistance to have the hard
conversation because the

710
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:10,700
breaking through the resistance
is the hardest part of that.

711
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:13,200
Our conversation be well.