Conquering Imposter Thoughts: Vulnerability as Strategy For Men

1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600
Which leads me to say that if
you are questioning if you're an

2
00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:04,120
imposter, that's a really good
sign.

3
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,640
It means most likely you're not.
You're just really caring about

4
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,320
the work you're doing and you're
aware.

5
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,320
Hello and welcome to Real Men
Field.

6
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,760
This is your host, author, coach
and healer, Andy Grant.

7
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,800
Visit theandygrant.com to learn
more about me.

8
00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,960
We have conversations that most
men are not having, but that all

9
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,040
men and the women who love them
can benefit from.

10
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,120
My guest today is Kendra
Dahlstrom.

11
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,240
Kendra is an executive coach,
keynote speaker, and host of the

12
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,720
Unworthy Leader Podcast.
She helps high achieving leaders

13
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,520
ditch 0 sum leadership and
embody authentic authority

14
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,120
because success is not based
solely on performance.

15
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,400
She shares that imperfection is
the new normal, the importance

16
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,200
of humility, and the fact that
vulnerability is not a weakness

17
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,240
but a strategy.
Looks like I picked the right

18
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,280
shirt to wear today.
Let's do it.

19
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,720
Hello Kendra, and welcome to
Real Men Feel.

20
00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:56,680
Thank you so much for having me,
Andy.

21
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,960
I've been looking forward to
this conversation and spending

22
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,560
time with you.
Oh, me too.

23
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,319
So let's just jump right in.
And can you share a moment when

24
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,080
imposter syndrome hit you hard?
And what did it teach you?

25
00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:11,360
Yeah, so I'll answer that in two
parts.

26
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,400
I I think I've had several
moments in my life when it's

27
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,880
with me.
One when when I was younger and

28
00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,360
I didn't know that that's what
it was.

29
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,720
I just need the feelings.
I need the sensations and how it

30
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,720
impacted my body and my mindset.
So I'll share one when I was a

31
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,800
little old group, like when I
actually thought, oh, is that

32
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,040
what I'm experiencing?
And I was actually in the

33
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,320
workplace.
I was in my 20s and I was always

34
00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:36,000
a high achiever.
And that's part of my story is

35
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,400
just high achievements and
always looking for external

36
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,520
validation through success and
achievements coming from a

37
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:47,240
trauma informed life.
And as part of that process, I

38
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,760
started to notice a cognitive
dissonance with the effort and

39
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,720
the value that I thought I was
providing Andy and what I felt

40
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,040
was being received right from
management, middle management,

41
00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,440
higher management on the other
side.

42
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,960
And I thought, wow, this is
really fascinating.

43
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,120
I know my ideas are are good.
I know I'm not arrogant, but at

44
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,440
the same time, I feel like there
is this real mismatch.

45
00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,800
And so immediately, because of
my trauma informed childhood, I

46
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,400
thought, oh, I must be doing
something wrong.

47
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,840
I must change something about me
in order for them to better

48
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,600
understand what it is I'm trying
to communicate instead of it

49
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,520
maybe just being, maybe they're
not interested, maybe it didn't

50
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,280
land, you know, all the other
options.

51
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,960
But because of my background, it
was really the first moment

52
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,280
where I felt like, Oh my gosh,
maybe I'm not good enough.

53
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,960
Maybe I, my ideas aren't as good
as I think they are.

54
00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:44,000
Maybe I'm not fit for this job.
And so I started doing the thing

55
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,200
that most people do and I
started looking for a new job.

56
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,280
And then I noticed that pattern,
you know, about every two years

57
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,920
kind of repeating itself for a
while until I got into my early

58
00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:56,320
30s.
And then that's when I really

59
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,760
started getting deeper into this
work and realizing that that

60
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,960
wasn't helping the problem.
It was just moving the deck

61
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,400
tears around the deck, you know.
So that is sort of when I, I

62
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,400
first experienced it.
The second answer I want to give

63
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,520
you is that pop culture has
named in foster syndrome, which

64
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,320
I think really makes it much
more complex and complicated for

65
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,480
us to move through and work with
because it a syndrome is

66
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,880
something essentially that right
we have for the rest of our

67
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,440
life.
It's not curable.

68
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,280
It's an endemic of sorts.
And the reality is, is that it's

69
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,400
not.
It's something we can choose to

70
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,640
listen to.
We can choose to believe.

71
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,600
We can question its validity and
learn and grow from that through

72
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,920
gratitude.
And and so I know we're going to

73
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,120
get deeper into that, but I did
just want to address that at the

74
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,560
beginning episode is that I like
to reframe it as imposter

75
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,040
thoughts.
So it gives us more agency

76
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,520
versus imposter syndrome.
And it's no fault by you or any

77
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,760
of the listeners for referring
to it as that, because that's

78
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,320
what pop culture is thought of.
And that's a great

79
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,600
differentiation.
I really appreciate that because

80
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,040
yeah, it, it they are just our
thoughts.

81
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,200
Like I I I was realizing earlier
in preparing for this that I've

82
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,560
often consider myself as a fraud
and and felt that those imposter

83
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,760
thoughts, but I've never watched
someone else and decided they're

84
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,680
being an imposter.
So is this something that's just

85
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,600
normally a label we put in
ourselves as opposed to others?

86
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,120
Yes.
And so for those of us that are

87
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,240
emotionally intelligent and
consciously aware, the answer is

88
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,240
yes.
We don't usually ever think

89
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,920
anybody is, even if it's a new
CEO that's like first time CEO

90
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,840
and you're at the company, you
most likely allow them Grace,

91
00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:43,440
right, Andy, you would say, oh
wow, you know, they're really

92
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,720
good and they bring this
expertise, but it's going to

93
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,160
take them a while to get used to
this job.

94
00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:48,760
It's a new job.
They're learning, they're

95
00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,160
growing.
We find competence in their

96
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,280
ability to grow and be
resilient.

97
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,400
We're not finding competence in
everything they know.

98
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,440
And that's the disconnect is
when we're holding ourselves

99
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,520
accountable and we think we're
an imposter.

100
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,000
We're holding ourselves
accountable for what we need to

101
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,480
know or what we think we need to
know, not our ability to be

102
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,760
resilient and to grow and adapt.
So we give other people much

103
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,600
more grace than we give
ourselves.

104
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,120
So that's the first part.
The second part is around this

105
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,040
unique thing that if somebody is
truly an imposter, like think

106
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,640
through maybe catch Me if you
can right with with Leonardo

107
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,640
DiCaprio about that real story
about the guy.

108
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,600
He was clearly an imposter and
pretending to be a doctor and

109
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,120
all these things.
They actually never question.

110
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,880
They are.
They don't have that social

111
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,280
aptitude or emotional
intelligence, at least through

112
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:46,080
my own research.
Again, I'm not a psycho

113
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,520
psychologist or psychotherapist.
However, in my own research and

114
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,320
my own lived experience, I found
that those people never question

115
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,520
if they're an imposter.
Which leads me to say that if

116
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,040
you are questioning if you're an
imposter, that's a really good

117
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,080
sign.
It means most likely you're not.

118
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,200
You're just really caring about
the work you're doing and you're

119
00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,240
aware.
So I know you've worked with

120
00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:08,320
with multiple Fortune 10
companies.

121
00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,120
How common is it for you to find
business leaders that that have

122
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,000
these thoughts about being a
fraud it?

123
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,960
It's fairly common, I would say
over 90% even though many would

124
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,400
not admit it.
So again, you know, like the

125
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,000
work you do.
Indeed, we often will see signs

126
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,320
and symptoms, but we have to
meet the client where they're

127
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,240
at.
So we won't call it out unless

128
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,400
we feel like they're really
ready to to hear that.

129
00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:34,280
The interesting part about this
is it's highly contextual.

130
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,840
So a great example is that I can
work with a very high

131
00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:41,560
functioning C-Suite leader,
engineer or sales or marketing

132
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,080
expert who knows their domain
very well.

133
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:52,280
As soon as they move to a new
domain and or activity like

134
00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:57,040
keynote speaking, suddenly it's
a change in dynamic.

135
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,560
So suddenly they, they realize,
Oh my gosh, I thought that

136
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,600
because I'm so competent over
here, I would be equally

137
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,440
competent over here.
And so they're holding

138
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,160
themselves to a really high
standard.

139
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,120
And what they realize is that it
doesn't always transfer.

140
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,920
It's not as smooth.
There's going to, you know, and

141
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,280
especially if it's outside of
our comfort zone to speak on

142
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,880
stages to 10s of thousands of
people.

143
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,520
There's a learning curve there.
And so often times I'll deal

144
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,040
with leaders that are very
confident in their day job, but

145
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,720
they start to get some imposter
thoughts and a lot of self doubt

146
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,560
nerves when it comes to speaking
on stage.

147
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,680
But if you put them back in the
container that they're familiar

148
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,120
with, you're fine.
So it's in, in the first

149
00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,720
example, this, this isn't
something that only newbies

150
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,680
face, but any new task, any new
goal, any new project, any new

151
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,480
action can bring this up even if
you've been experiencing

152
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,000
something else for, you know,
and very successful at it.

153
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,600
Absolutely.
And I mean, case in point, if

154
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,520
you don't mind me putting you on
the spot and I'll share my

155
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:53,640
stories.
When you first started a

156
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,560
podcast, even though you're a
very outgoing, easy person to

157
00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,760
talk to, did you ever have
moments where you thought like,

158
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,920
well, gosh, maybe I'm not ready
or what am I doing?

159
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,320
Oh, sure, I wouldn't have
described myself as easy to talk

160
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,400
to and outgoing, you know, So
yeah, I mean, yeah, my

161
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,200
astrological sign is a Cancer.
I'm like, yeah, I'm withdrawn.

162
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,920
I'm, I'm, I'm shocked at how
good I've become at engaging

163
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,920
people in conversation, but that
skill wasn't there on on episode

164
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,400
1.
Right, right.

165
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,400
So you had to learn and grow.
And it's the same for me, even

166
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,040
though I would be considered a
social extrovert and I've done

167
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,320
keynote speaking and I'm
comfortable facilitating

168
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,440
workshops and trainings and
whatnot.

169
00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:36,159
At the same time, this is a
whole new thing, right?

170
00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,679
A whole new task or project.
So as soon as I started doing

171
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,440
this, I just stayed in the joy
of it and that was fine.

172
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,800
But then as soon as I stepped
out of the joy and started

173
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,760
looking at it like a business
and all the tasks and all the

174
00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,080
things that have to be done on
the back end, I immediately was

175
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,920
like, oh gosh, maybe I'm not
good enough to be doing this.

176
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,000
So it's it's very normal.
And so that's one goal of the

177
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,320
Unworthy Reader podcast is to
just help normalize these

178
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,960
conversations and feelings
because we have them several

179
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,720
times a day, all of us in
different contexts.

180
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,720
And the more that we can
actually start creating

181
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,240
community on shows like yours
and talking about the things

182
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,120
that you talk about
vulnerability and all these

183
00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,120
types of things and, and embrace
those as actual leadership

184
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,120
qualities, the more that I
believe we have a chance to

185
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,320
actually not just change the
culture we're in, Andy, but

186
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,160
corporate culture, the corporate
culture that's like, Oh no,

187
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,880
that's a weakness.
And I have to pretend like I

188
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,880
know all the answers and I'm not
scared.

189
00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:34,640
So you mentioned dealing with
clients that have the the

190
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,840
symptoms of imposter thoughts,
but they struggle to admit it.

191
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:44,240
So why do you think so many high
achievers, especially men, are

192
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,560
kind of the last people to to to
open up and recognize that this

193
00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:49,880
is an issue for them?
Yeah, such a good question.

194
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,240
I've been thinking about it a
lot before we met, given your

195
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,240
discreet audience.
And so I think one thing is

196
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,280
gender neutral, but that men and
women both experience for women

197
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:07,200
who are also listening, we often
get wrapped up with our identity

198
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:13,080
in what we do, not who we are.
And so that gets really

199
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,040
intertwined with our our career
because we spent so much of our

200
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,520
time in work in our career, in
our title and our job.

201
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,760
And we even if we think we're
doing a good job of keeping it

202
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,160
mutually exclusive from who we
are and our own innate and

203
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,480
intrinsic value, it's really
hard.

204
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,280
And so I feel like because of
how things have evolved, if you

205
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,960
need to think back to the
beginning of time when men were,

206
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,280
you know, doing a lot of the
protecting and, and depending on

207
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,440
the tribe, they were the ones
doing the hunting, although I

208
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,080
know that can can vary, but the
point is that they were sort of

209
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,000
the ones out there doing the
work and the women were, you

210
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,120
know, doing the, the more
nurturing activity, right?

211
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,000
And the food and with the
children and whatnot.

212
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,480
And so as we think about how
that evolved into where we are

213
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,280
today, I think it's harder for
men.

214
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,360
It's hard for women too, but I
think it's a lot harder for men.

215
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:14,440
It's my observation to decouple
what they do from who they are,

216
00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,360
which is why I think the work
you're doing is so important.

217
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:22,480
Andy And then I the next layer
to that that I'll just add here

218
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,000
is that many people don't often
realize that success and shame

219
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,360
can coexist.
I think many times we think

220
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,240
like, oh, if I am successful,
then I cannot show that I am

221
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:42,600
still healing or, you know,
dealing with being from trauma

222
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,040
informed life or whatever it may
be.

223
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,640
And So what that leads to, as
you would know of anyone else is

224
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,680
there, is there the stuffing
down of the shame and then the

225
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,800
the feeling of the success
bucket to feel better about

226
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,840
ourselves, to contradict that
fame?

227
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:00,360
Right.
Yeah, we can't.

228
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,960
At least I can't.
I have not been successful at

229
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,440
being so successful that I can
bury my shame or her or I can

230
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,560
love something enough that if I
don't love myself, I somehow am

231
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,520
balancing that out.
And yeah, I I find it just not a

232
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:16,760
possibility.
Yeah.

233
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,240
And so I, I mean, I would love
to hear from men who are

234
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,880
listening to this and your
listeners on, you know, if my

235
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,880
observations are true.
But that's when I run into

236
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,760
leaders who are male that are
very high functional.

237
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,960
They often have these symptoms
of shame beneath the surface,

238
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,680
but they're not ready to
acknowledge it or admit it.

239
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:37,520
Because again, you have to think
about how we branded the

240
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,640
workplace.
We don't deal with emotions.

241
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,880
We don't deal with feelings.
We stick with facts and so that

242
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,200
what that does is it just
creates emotional bypassing,

243
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,240
which is further stuff.
How does someone tell the

244
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,960
difference between healthy
self-awareness and, you know,

245
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,840
sabotaging self doubt?
That's a great question.

246
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,000
So I'll just answer how I've
done it and then I'd love to

247
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,440
hear what you what works for you
because I think between the two

248
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,400
of us, your listeners, you
probably can answer it.

249
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:07,000
And, and the reason I hesitate
to give a prescription is

250
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,200
because again, I'm not a
psychologist or a therapist.

251
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,440
So I want to be real thoughtful
about the listeners hearing and

252
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,720
what they glean from it.
But for me, I, I realized that

253
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,360
peace is the end all be all
form.

254
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:25,720
So when I'm making a decision or
when I'm evaluating something, I

255
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,360
always ask myself, does this
would bring me closer to peace

256
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:36,600
or further away from peace?
And, and the one clarity on that

257
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,560
is that it doesn't always mean
that it's something that feels

258
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:43,600
good, but you just know in your
heart and soul that it's going

259
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,160
to bring you closer to peace.
Like, oh, this is something I'll

260
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,480
have to go through.
This is something I'll need to

261
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,680
learn.
But I know, I know lifting this

262
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:56,080
weight is going to get me to the
goal that I want of having these

263
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,920
really nice biceps doesn't
always feel good what you're

264
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,880
going through, right?
So I found that question is my

265
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,880
lighthouse, so to speak, in
terms of really helping me

266
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:12,280
evaluate as I'm looking at data,
for instance, and say, Oh my

267
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,600
gosh, I am sabotaging myself.
I don't think I'm going to do

268
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,520
good at this, this speech or
workshop or keynote.

269
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,440
I have to stop and say, are
these thoughts bringing me

270
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,720
closer to peace or further away?
Well, answer from me is further

271
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,000
away now.
Is there truth in something I

272
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,600
could do different?
Yeah.

273
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,480
I think you need to block two
more hours of rehearsal on your

274
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,560
calendar and you need to go
through the outline about two

275
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,720
times to make sure it's really
tight and articulating the

276
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,680
message that you want them to
walk away, away and do those

277
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,640
things bring me closer to peace?
Yes.

278
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,200
Are they maybe going to be task
driven and take some time and

279
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,480
mental power?
Yes.

280
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,760
Is that helpful?
Yeah, no, I I agree.

281
00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,200
And in my experience, I find
that the stricter a negative

282
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,920
thought is that's the that's the
the sabotaging self doubt.

283
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,520
Whereas if it's gentleness, oh,
I need like you're saying I need

284
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,040
to practice it a little more.
If it if those those more subtle

285
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,440
things are the are the healthy
awareness.

286
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,560
Yes, yes, I absolutely think so.
And, and, and where I think it

287
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,720
gets conflated is that often
times there could be a glimmer

288
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,360
of truth in the stricter
thought.

289
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:28,240
But when we think through, you
know, how God and light operates

290
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,280
it, it's gentle, right?
It usually it doesn't come at

291
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,720
you like that.
That's dark energy, right?

292
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,720
Or Satan or whatever you want to
call it, right?

293
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,480
So that's dark energy.
And so we need to be careful

294
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,760
which energy we're attaching our
our truth to.

295
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:42,920
Yeah.
Cool.

296
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,680
Kendra, I've heard you say that
the real impact of a leader is

297
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,560
based on humility.
Can you expand on that?

298
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,520
Yeah, I think we're all tired of
smoke and mirrors.

299
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,120
Culturally, I think we're at a
third.

300
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,320
I'm sure not just what's going
on globally, but if we just look

301
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,880
at leaders and even look at
company and monopolies and

302
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,360
things going on around the
world, the corporate scale as

303
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,320
well as, you know, global and
government scale, I think we're

304
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,200
really wanting humility.
We don't expect someone to be

305
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,320
perfect, but we just want to
know that we're getting true.

306
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,640
And I think post pandemic, I
think just because all of things

307
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,520
that transpired, I think people
are just, you know, doubtful.

308
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,600
And now unfortunately, we're
living in this world that's very

309
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,680
divided, like, oh, you're here
or here.

310
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,320
And you and I both understand
the power of oneness.

311
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,640
And so that makes it hard,
right?

312
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,520
It's like, oh, OK, we can just,
we just have to start being the

313
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,400
light and being positive and all
those things.

314
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,240
So I think as we look through
the next generations of leaders,

315
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,680
I think humility and
authenticity, Andy, are

316
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,040
something that have been a
requirement for a long time.

317
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,360
Like even if you think back to
tribal people and population,

318
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,120
indigenous cultures and how they
operate.

319
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,520
And we lost it along the way as
we scaled into quote, UN quote

320
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,599
corporate business and what we
expect of people.

321
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,839
If you look a politician, like
what we expected them like no

322
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,200
one's ever going to be perfect.
Like that's kind of, that's

323
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,520
really real ridiculous that we
ever thought someone was going

324
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,079
to be perfect, you know, in
order to be an exposition.

325
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,319
And so I, I think we're
hopefully dialing more towards

326
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:27,839
an era where humility and
authenticity and the, the

327
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:34,400
willingness to be vulnerable and
share true, accept mistakes, not

328
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,280
be ego driven is going to be
even more important.

329
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,920
And then layered on top of it,
we have Jen AI.

330
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,440
So what is going to
differentiate leaders from what

331
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,480
Jen AI can do, which is just,
you know, tasks.

332
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,200
Here's how I'm going to
delegate.

333
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,160
Here's our the ideas, here's the
strategic plan.

334
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,800
I mean, at some point, Jen AI,
it's already pretty close to

335
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,280
being able to do that.
But what will differentiate a

336
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,640
per leader is their EQ, right?
Is their ability to lean in and

337
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,480
say, oh, Andy, great job on the
work, but how are you feeling?

338
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,280
What can I do to help support
you and your career growth?

339
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,920
Those kinds of conversations
that many leaders are still not

340
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,920
having.
Is emotional intelligence

341
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,360
something that is an innate
scale or isn't?

342
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,440
Or is it something that's
learnable for everybody?

343
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,080
So there's different schools of
thought on it.

344
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,480
I'm at the school of thought
that it is something that's

345
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,800
learnable.
I believe we're all born with

346
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:28,600
it.
It's innate.

347
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,240
It's just how much you were
brained and programmed to turn

348
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,120
it off as a child, right?
I, I mean, if you look at a

349
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,720
baby, they're very emotionally
intelligent.

350
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,720
They're very aware of their
thoughts and feelings, and then

351
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,360
they take action based on that
and what they want to do.

352
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,000
Now one would say that if you
look at the composites of EQ

353
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,800
that their impulse control is
probably very low because they

354
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,640
think something, feel it, and
then they do it right away.

355
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,120
But those things come with lived
experience.

356
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,360
So the one thing I really like
about the psychometric

357
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,800
assessment for EQ that is untrue
or any other psychometric

358
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,520
assessment is that you can
actually work on a composite or

359
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,760
a a certain quality like empathy
or impulse control or stress

360
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,520
tolerance and you can actually
see it move.

361
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,040
You can actually change your
test results.

362
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,640
Whereas a lot of the other
psychometric assessments are

363
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,160
behavior based.
And they'll say, oh, Andy,

364
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,320
you're an ENTJ and you're always
going to be.

365
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,440
And so I think that that is very
empowering for leaders and, and,

366
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,240
and people to be able to
understand that it's a snapshot

367
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:31,840
in time.
That's the result.

368
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,800
And that this is the skill that
if I choose to lean into and

369
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,120
grow, I.
So Kendra, you mentioned your

370
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,240
podcast earlier, The Unworthy
Leader.

371
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,400
What inspired you to create that
and how do people react to

372
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:50,240
Unworthy being in the title?
So I, I unworthiness has been my

373
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,360
story for a long time.
I think it's something again

374
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:55,440
from, you know, trauma informed
background all through childhood

375
00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:02,080
and then just further patterned
and, and reinforced through 20s

376
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,000
and somewhat into my 30s.
And then it got better.

377
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,600
But then it would show up in
pockets and I just got better at

378
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,040
hiding it.
Even though I was really

379
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,160
successful in my day job inside,
I still just felt like I was in

380
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,960
a lot of inks.
And so Fast forward till.

381
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,760
I don't know.
Last summer I'd already had this

382
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,800
idea of doing a podcast and I
had kind of played around with

383
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,320
the name, and I've been advised
against it because most podcasts

384
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,760
you want to name the positive,
right?

385
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,120
If you think of duality, you
don't want to name it the thing

386
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,400
people don't want to be.
You want to name it the thing to

387
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,080
be.
You know what they are because

388
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,960
they're whole and complete or
the thing may aspire to be.

389
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,400
And so I had branding experts
and marketing experts say, oh, I

390
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,400
don't know that you should do
that.

391
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,000
You should call it the confident
leader or something else.

392
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,480
But you know, to the point of
knowing our truth.

393
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,120
I meditated on it.
I sat with her for a long time.

394
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:00,160
I journaled and I said, no, this
is the title.

395
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,840
This is the title.
About a month later, I ended up

396
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,680
with strechacopterous pneumonia,
turned to septic shock.

397
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,440
It was in respiratory failure at
the beginning of liver and heart

398
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:19,120
failure and was really sick,
obviously almost died, Had this

399
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,840
sort of NDE type experience in
the hospital and three or four

400
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:30,960
days later come out.
And it was that experience where

401
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,440
I realized two things.
One was that I was so stubborn

402
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:40,320
that I had your test how worthy
I am to be here and try to

403
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,480
leave.
And God said, no, you're, you're

404
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,080
here.
And I thought, wow, I can't

405
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,160
believe I've been so stubborn to
my whole life that I had to go

406
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,240
through something that crazy to
actually now believe I'm worthy

407
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,000
of being here and that I have a
purpose.

408
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,520
If I'm not here by chance, I'm
here on purpose.

409
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,160
And so I said I absolutely have
to launch this podcast because I

410
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,880
want to share this message and I
want to normalize this because I

411
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,400
feel like so many people can
relate to this on different

412
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,320
levels, whether it's past or
present or contextual or or

413
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,040
omnipresent, whatever it is.
And so I felt like I that whole

414
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,560
experience, the purpose of it
was to call me to do this.

415
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,680
And people have written me back
that I've asked to be on the

416
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,160
show and they say, well, tell me
what you mean by the Unworthy

417
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,000
leader, because I think they're
nervous about it identifying

418
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,880
their brand with it.
And I get that.

419
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,600
And so I acknowledged that and I
said, yeah, this isn't for you.

420
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,920
That's fine.
However, I will tell you that

421
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,240
the people that have come on
have been the people who are

422
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,360
more open and willing to say,
you know what?

423
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,560
Yeah, I felt these things.
And those are the exact guests I

424
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,120
want.
I I don't really want someone

425
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:54,200
who's going to come on and share
platitudes of yeah, I felt

426
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,240
doubt, but not really be willing
to share the whole truth.

427
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,480
That's what I'm trying to get
away from.

428
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,320
Yeah, and in in case people
aren't familiar with NDE that's

429
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,760
near death experience and you
seeing how that you know you you

430
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,720
put yourself through that to
prove your worthiness very much

431
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,240
aligns with with my history of
suicide attempts and I keep

432
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,840
after let's just check one more
time.

433
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,480
Let me try to get out of here,
make sure I'm supposed to be

434
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,640
here and you know that that's
I'm well, I said it was was did

435
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,240
you need to test your worthiness
just the one time?

436
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,640
Well, I had contemplated suicide
when I was younger on two

437
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,920
different occasions.
Nothing as significant as yours,

438
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,520
thank goodness, where I
actually, you know, went through

439
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,440
with the act or whatnot.
The first one, I was about 10

440
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,280
years old and I, I was going
through a significant time with

441
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,000
bullying, but it was also a time
when my dad was threatening for

442
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,680
full custody and there was a lot
of abuse going on in that

443
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,760
household.
So it was just really rough for

444
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,640
me.
And I think I just felt

445
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,920
completely alienated by some of
her personal.

446
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,800
I guess people call them norms,
but they're, they're, they're

447
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,000
not very compassionate tactics
going on in the cliques.

448
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,120
And so I remember, you know,
holding a knife to my wrist in

449
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,160
the kitchen and I was putting
some pressure.

450
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,840
It was starting to get red, but
it wasn't bloody.

451
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,400
And then my mom walked out of
her room.

452
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,920
Obviously I hadn't thought
through this very well and thank

453
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,760
goodness.
And I pulled it away.

454
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,880
And then, you know, and then I,
I, I think, you know, if I think

455
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,640
back on that moment, I think it
was just sort of this larger

456
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:38,120
knowing voice came in that said,
don't just just don't do that.

457
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,920
So I feel very grateful that,
that, you know, I felt like it

458
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,240
was divine intervention on both
instances.

459
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,040
The the later one when was when
I was undergoing a sexual

460
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,960
harassment lawsuit, which was
just awful and rough.

461
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,320
And I had happened to also go
through ACL surgery that was not

462
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,320
recovering well.
And now what I know about

463
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,280
somatics and everything else I
said, well, my right knee, I

464
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,560
mean, all this like this makes
total sense, right?

465
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,320
The mask, go inside everything.
You know, knees are about

466
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,680
movement going forward and life
and everything.

467
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,880
And so I was also on, you know,
the medication they give you and

468
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,080
I don't think I was reacting
very well to it, but I didn't

469
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,800
feel that.
And so I was just like, and

470
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,680
luckily at that time a friend
called me and knew something was

471
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,240
wrong.
And luckily I was honest and I

472
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,040
said, OK, you need to come pick
up this bottle.

473
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,080
And so they came and got it.
So nothing, you know, as extreme

474
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,640
as, as what you've been through,
Andy.

475
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,000
But I think there were two other
terms where I felt like I tested

476
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,120
it.
And when I look back in

477
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:40,320
hindsight, God wanted to keep me
here for some reason.

478
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,320
Now I know why.
Yeah, I just want to throw

479
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,840
something there and suicidal
thoughts, attempts.

480
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,560
It's not a competition.
I, I, I don't want to be

481
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,040
considered.
Oh, I'm better at that than

482
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,640
anyone.
Like that is not the thing.

483
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,400
So having the thought once in
your life, it can be a horrible,

484
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,880
horrible experience.
I'm glad you saw the truth and,

485
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,760
and listen to those voices and,
and saw your worthiness because

486
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,600
you know, this goes back to kind
of the discussion about thoughts

487
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,640
of, of fraud.
I find that only the worthiest

488
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,400
people question their worth.
That's right.

489
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,440
Yeah.
It's right because we have such

490
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,080
I, you know, I would say
consciousness, social awareness,

491
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,960
I need to help.
I need to actually have purpose.

492
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,560
And it means a lot to us that
we're actually self actualized.

493
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,080
And if we're not, we feel like a
broad, right?

494
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,360
So I'm going to change the tone
a little bit.

495
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,000
I I recently came across a 20
year old journal and it was from

496
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,880
the first time I worked with a
coach and he had me describe and

497
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,760
draw a picture of of my gremlin
of my darkest voice and it

498
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,800
looked like Danny DeVito as the
Penguin.

499
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,560
So I want that made me think
about this.

500
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,680
So if imposter syndrome had a
voice, what would it sound like?

501
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:06,920
Well, it, I'll say this, it
doesn't know compassion, it

502
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,120
doesn't know love.
It doesn't have your highest

503
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:14,200
good or interest of heart and it
doesn't hold grace.

504
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,520
And so I can tell you what you
know what it doesn't have.

505
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,320
Now in terms of what it does
have, it can, it can, it's

506
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,240
usually always just, it's very
critical.

507
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,280
It, it always assumes the worst
possible scenario.

508
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,760
And it it, it's judgment.
If I was to put it into one

509
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:39,640
word, it's pure judgment from a
place of mockery, belittlement,

510
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,600
and disempowerment.
Now, what the boys actually

511
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,320
sounds like depends on each
individual.

512
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,800
Some people, when you really do
the work, it's like, oh, that's

513
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,120
my mother, that's my father,
that's my grandmother.

514
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,320
That's my stepmother.
That's that teacher I had in

515
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,920
second grade.
That's my best friend that I had

516
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,000
in high school.
So it can, it can vary on terms

517
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,880
of like sound, but in terms of
its vibration and tone and

518
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,760
energetic blueprint, I'll call
it, it's never of and for the

519
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,840
highest good of you, it's, it's
right.

520
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,600
I always like to call it.
It's like the wedge of Satan.

521
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,640
It's the wedge of darkness that
finds a little spot to get in

522
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,240
there.
And then that's when it starts

523
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,240
to do its work.
Does anything stand out for you

524
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,320
as a ridiculous thing you told
yourself in the past that now

525
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,880
you can laugh at?
Oh jeez, there's so many.

526
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,080
I mean, one that may not seem
relative, but it comes up

527
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,840
actually quite a bit is I always
loved animals and I'd always

528
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,880
thought about being a vet, but
because I didn't always have the

529
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,800
healthiest mindset, I never
thought I was going to be smart

530
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,040
enough to get into that school.
So I didn't even try.

531
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:55,840
So here I am about 25 and then
high tech working, and I was at

532
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,240
this point in my life where I
was kind of starting to question

533
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,040
like, am I doing what I love and
you know what's going on?

534
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,680
That's how I thought about going
back to that school.

535
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,440
And so I got my diploma for my
Bachelor of Science from where I

536
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,640
went to college.
I got all the paperwork ready

537
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,520
and I was starting to apply.
And then I heard this voice in

538
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,560
my head say, Andra, you're so
dumb.

539
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Why would you want to try to go
back to school now?

540
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,240
You're 25.
You wouldn't even be out of

541
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,920
school and be able to become a
vet until you're probably almost

542
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,800
30.
By then you're going to be so

543
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,080
old.
Like, what are you even

544
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,160
thinking?
And I laugh at that now because

545
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,040
now I understand, you know, here
I am 50 and I'm like, that was a

546
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,360
blip in time, you know, like,
but here was this voice trying

547
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,960
to sabotage and, and, and
convince me that I was not

548
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,640
adequate to go after this dream
of caring for animals.

549
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,840
Enter Is there a practice or a
program or a book that has

550
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,520
really helped you that you would
like to share?

551
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,480
Oh my gosh, I there's so many
Andy.

552
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,840
And I think like many of us, we
kind of find a hybrid that like

553
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,320
a little bit of everything that
works for us.

554
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,600
The one thing that I think has
worked the most for me is

555
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:20,560
somatic is being able to really
pause and quiet and and start to

556
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,640
feel into like your body and
what is going on.

557
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,960
Not just the thought, but the
thought is usually connected to

558
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,680
something in your body.
And even if it is only up here

559
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,400
starting to get curious and ask
it questions about, OK, what

560
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,560
color are you?
And if you were to have it be a

561
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,920
shape, what shape are you and
what is you know, what is the

562
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,840
red furball want to tell me?
Because when you start to

563
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,560
dissociate it like that, it
becomes easier to not only hear

564
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,240
what's going on, but not be as
emotionally impacted by it.

565
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:58,840
And I found so many raw fruit
and just impeccable wisdom come

566
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:05,200
to me through those those
conversations and relief has

567
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,640
been on the other side of it.
So I would say from like a

568
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:14,600
trauma informed and foster
thought model, that would really

569
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,640
be what I would say would help
me the most.

570
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,080
But obviously there's
meditation, there's generally a

571
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,080
lot of times you, but even like
you can do inner child

572
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,720
journaling with the adult, you
know, self, you can do the same

573
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,000
with imposter, right?
So your right hand is your, your

574
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,080
higher self and you're, you
know, you're God born, you know,

575
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,960
self.
And then your left hand would be

576
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,760
OK, these imposter thoughts.
And then you allow them to have

577
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,000
an exchange and, and sometimes
what you'll find is that

578
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,320
imposter thought is just a
defiant child that wants

579
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,240
attention.
So they're tipping the chair,

580
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,120
they're throwing the food, and
they're angry because of

581
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,320
whatever they've experienced as
their child.

582
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,280
And I'll offer that it's right,
Right.

583
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,800
And so they're angry.
And because we're taught to

584
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,240
suppress all these things and
not give it attention, then the

585
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,880
older we get there, we start to
say, oh, I feel still thinking

586
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,480
about when I was 4, like, why
can't I just get over that?

587
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,720
But if you really give it some
time to do it and the journaling

588
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,800
is a great way to do it, you
just start to realize that them

589
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,400
tossed their thought is often
just, you know, this 4 year old

590
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:22,800
kid that just wants a little
attention.

591
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,360
So it's throwing ice cream
across the road.

592
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,400
So.
What is one thing that you wish

593
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,640
more men knew?
Well, I think I started by

594
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:37,560
saying that the worth isn't
always tied to productivity,

595
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,760
performance, and the pressure to
hold it all together.

596
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,080
I am that that your value isn't
what in what you do.

597
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,480
Although you can talk about self
actualization and Maslow's,

598
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,120
Maslow's hierarchy, that's a
different conversation, but it's

599
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,920
more about who you are like as
is human being who you are.

600
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:01,280
And, and I think a lot of, like
I said, men find themselves

601
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,920
defining who they are by what
they do.

602
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,520
And that's an easy thing to do,
especially because we want to be

603
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,680
the change we want to see.
And so when you start getting

604
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,880
those kinds of idioms and
whatnot, it, it makes it really

605
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,840
complex.
But I, I, I would say that

606
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,280
that's number one.
And then the next thing is that

607
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,040
vulnerability is not a weakness,
it's a strategy.

608
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,040
It's not to be overused, right?
It's supposed to be used with

609
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,280
deliberateness and precision,
and it's not to be manipulated.

610
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,680
But when used appropriately
within context, it has so much

611
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:41,120
power to open up relationships
and conversations in a room.

612
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,800
And if you're really after
influence and leadership and

613
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,960
building deep relationships,
whether it be with your team or

614
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:54,200
family, that's where it starts
because that's when fight safety

615
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,360
kicks in.
And then actually people are

616
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,360
open to sharing thoughts and
ideas.

617
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,240
And that's how we become a
better people, a better culture.

618
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,320
And that's where innovation
lives in the technology realm.

619
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,800
Kendra, what's the best way for
people to connect with you?

620
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,480
Well, they can certainly find me
on my website, which is Kendra

621
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,280
dahlstrom.com.
There's a contact button there

622
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,760
with a variety of ways to
contact me whether or not if you

623
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,600
want to talk about me
facilitating a workshop, you

624
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,199
want one-on-one coaching, you
want team coaching, you want a

625
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:30,920
keynote, it's all there.
You can also find me on Spotify.

626
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,120
You can listen to our podcast
there and it's also published on

627
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,040
YouTube under the Unworthy
Leader Podcast.

628
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,000
And I also have presents on
Instagram and LinkedIn.

629
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:44,040
But I would say that the main
ways to get a hold of me are

630
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,000
probably my website with the
contact button or LinkedIn.

631
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,440
Awesome, Kendra, I'm so glad.
So I was recently guest on your

632
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,560
podcast.
I'm glad we connected and have

633
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,159
been have been having continuing
this conversation on both of our

634
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:58,720
platforms because as you said,
it's a very needed one.

635
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:02,120
And let's say it's a worthy
discussion to talk about

636
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:02,840
worthiness.
Right.

637
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,080
Yeah.
Well, I mean, and your shirt

638
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,880
says it all, right?
And I know you're the king of

639
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,960
vulnerability.
So I love that we were able to

640
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,120
connect on this because I think
the world needs more people like

641
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,680
you that are willing to stand up
and say that, you know,

642
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,360
vulnerability and masculinity
don't have to be mutually

643
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,360
exclusive.
This is something worth telling

644
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,880
ourselves and it's not helping
us as a people or an individual.

645
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,200
Yeah, that's why I love, you
know, you're saying

646
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,200
vulnerability is not a weakness
but a strategy.

647
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,680
And I often say that
vulnerability and authenticity

648
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,200
are superpowers that men, too
many men, ignore and have been

649
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,520
taught otherwise.
So yeah, keep making a lot of

650
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,280
noise.
Yeah, Thank you taking.

651
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,680
That tree of unworthiness and
see who drops out.

652
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,640
Yeah, exactly.
And I think between the two of

653
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,760
us, we can change the culture to
go move away from zero sum

654
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,880
thinking like, like I have to be
a leader, but it has to be the

655
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,560
cost or myself and my humanness,
which is vulnerability, which is

656
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,520
authentic.
Thanks so much.

657
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,760
Thanks for joining us, everyone.
Please visit realmenfeel.org and

658
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,280
see the blog post for this
episode.

659
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,000
We'll have all the various links
and resources discussed.

660
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,600
Wherever you're discovering Real
Men Feel, please subscribe,

661
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,080
follow, like, share this episode
with someone, post a review or

662
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,320
comment.
If you don't know where you want

663
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,440
to go, it is impossible to get
there.

664
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,000
If that's the case for you, I
invite you to book a free

665
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,800
Clarity call with me.
Visit theandygrant.com/talk.

666
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,400
We'll explore what you want,
what's in your way, and what you

667
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,440
can do about it.
Until next time, be good to

668
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:32,920
yourself.