Did Your Partner Betray You? | Recovering From Betrayal Part 2

0:01 Hello and welcome to real men. Feel I'm your host author coach and healer and e-grant, you can visit vnd grant.com. For more information about me, real men, feel exist to remind men at the human beings and have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men are not having but that all men can benefit from men and women deal with emotions differently. You may have to say it discovered that but we all have them and any man who believes that stuffing and denying their emotions are the path to happiness and this Successful life. Well, not my experience and it's not the experience of any man I ever talked. One of the greatest emotions, one of the greatest painful emotions, a man might ever experience is one of being betrayed that we're going to look at today.

0:45 Today is part 2 of recovering, from betrayal and we are focusing on men being betrayed by women. My returning guest, is Vanessa Cardenas. She is your trusted advisor for portrayal and transformation. Vanessa is a highly experienced c-suite Executives. Mentor coach and speaker with a degree in industrial psychology. She's also the founder and CEO of understanding ear where she empowers individuals and To heal from betrayal amplifying their authenticity and how to find love and happiness. On their terms. Welcome back to real men. Feel Vanessa, thank you so much, Andy. Oh, I can't wait to jump in and get started. What you do is absolutely amazing. So thank you so much for the space because this truly is a needed space especially for men to know that they have somewhere safe that they can just be real and be themselves.

1:36 So that Thank you, awesome. Yeah. And that's a great thing to point out because the title of, you know, I'm not saying that if you're not a man, if you don't like the real and being real is, yeah, real genuine honest being yourself. I'm not saying that there's you, you're not a man. If you aren't, you know, willing to cry in public and there's no emotional disclaimers or containers that, that I believe in, but that's it. So, you should a lot of valuable information. Just a few weeks ago. Episode 301, did you betray your partner and we focused on men wanting to heal. Relationship after being unfaithful to their partner. So today, we're doing the flip side. So, how different is the experience of recovering from betrayal? When you are the portrayed party? Yes, well, keep in mind that I can't speak from the male point of view because I am not mail.

2:25 So I am speaking on behalf of the clients that I have worked with and there have been quite a number of them. And initially when I started out years ago, I really focused on women and it wasn't so much men. A lot of the women would say, oh, you know, could you speak to my husband? And that was kind of interesting and I started to do. So, again, from the perspective of the man, cheating on his wife, then because of what I do, it started to kind of turn and it was a very interesting Dynamic, but it was more underground. Meaning if you've ever seen the movie Hitch with Will Smith and Kevin James.

3:09 Okay, hitches. You know, this underground guy, that helps men, you know, date and get women. And it turns out that, you know, he works with Kevin Hart and Kevin Hart's woman that he's attracted to he follows. Hitches advice and everything else, and she's not really into them, but anytime he's himself and he's real, that's what attracts her to him. And I always found that movie really Really fascinating on that level but then I also started finding it interesting. On the other level of how hitch is kind of underground. He gets one referral from another, it doesn't advertise, he's not all over the place.

3:50 Doesn't say, oh, you know, I'm The Love Guru. You can come find me and I'll help you find women. Now, it's very, very underground and I started to feel that way as well that my men that I was working with who had been betrayed. Felt a lot of Shame and they were very quiet about it and very reserved about it. Whereas women just want to scream it from the mountaintops. They want to take on a little bit of a role of victim. Well, men never take the role of victim. No, they're Men of Steel or their velvet, but there's still, you know, there and they're firm. And they have all of these limiting beliefs of how they are supposed to be. And when they are betrayed There is a cascading situation that starts to happen for them.

4:40 So I want to set the parameters kind of similar to what we did last time on episode 3, 0 1, but I want to make sure that we have a nice clear understanding of what we're going to do. You did a fantastic episode? It was episode 149 and this is where you actually Andy got really real and you got really vulnerable and I I thank you for that because most men will not be that vulnerable. You not only were you vulnerable, you let your story out for everyone to hear for the whole world to hear. And when that happened, that was such an amazing thing. So, I want to touch on that because for the men that are listening, if you find yourself in this situation, you need to go back to 149 episode 149, and listen to that. That is for Men that are in an emotionally abusive relationship, it's an aggressive relationship. It's maybe a secret relationship. People don't know about it, their wounds that are inflicted on you from your woman, whether that's emotional or actually physical.

5:55 And you start to question your reality like, is this really going on? Am I in this situation? And then you have such a A deep sense of Shame and that shame can live with you or hears. It can just hold on to you and Andy, I have to thank you so much for being vulnerable and expressing that out because now we see how you are today. We see that growth and that is what provides hope for everyone to see that progression of move. Forward.

6:35 So, thank you for that. You had another episode and that was episode 226. You had a wonderful woman and Silvers on, and she said that abuse. Okay, we're still sticking with abuse for the moment isn't always just One Direction with a man being mean, and a woman being victimized, and that was very, very powerful in and of itself. So, if you're a man, and you're finding yourself and that type of situation where you're in an abusive situation, And now you have been betrayed, you need to listen to those two episodes because those two episodes will help you for the purposes of today. We are not talking about any type of abuse.

7:17 We are talking about a strict situation, where a husband and wife we've been married for quite a bit of time. The man gets blindsided by finding out that his wife has cheated on him. She has betrayed him. So I'd like to bring to mind because when I started thinking and we were talking about doing part to the flip side of what we spoke about last time, I started to think back to all of my mail clients and I actually needed to start kind of with my first one because he was the most memorable. His name was John, we're going to change his name and his wife, my husband and I met John and Jane at a gallery showing, okay, and that's where you kind of mingle around.

8:03 You have your wine and you're looking at the artwork and everybody kind of stands and and looks and deep contemplation and so forth. Well, the woman whose Gallery showing this was she knew what I did, you know, and she was so excited to see me. You know, I'm kind of memorable with the pink hair and she rent runs up to me and gives me kisses and whatnot. And then she pulls in another couple and she's like, oh my gosh, you have got to meet Vanessa. And her husband, Vanessa is a betrayal recovery. First, you've got to talk to her, she's like, amazing out what she does. And she was like, so excited, and then she darted off, leaving me. And my husband would a couple. We have never met and they both kind of look at us.

8:45 And I could tell immediately they were very uncomfortable, but really uncomfortable and I was like, you know, nice to meet, you know this before you know as Evelyn had introduced me, you know, I'm a trusted advisor for betrayal and transformation and you know, and then they both look at my husband almost Because that's usually the response and he nods and he goes, yeah, I screwed up, you know, but this is what she is. Now, look at hers and she amazing, you know, type of thing. So we have a good laugh about it and whatnot. So the woman Jane just couldn't wait to get away. Like she just could not wait to get away from us and she's like, oh, I'm gonna go get a drink. So, she moved off and I kind of shooed my husband away. I'm like, you need to go as well. So me and John are standing in front of this piece of art. I say, Saying, he says nothing.

9:37 And then he clears his throat. And he says, do you work with men? I said, of course. Okay, I'm going to need to talk to you. You can find me at understanding ear.com, that's all I said, no business card, no nothing, you know, men as do women decide what they're going to do, you know, in life? You know, here's the information. If you need me, you can reach out to me the very next day, my phone rings. And it's John and he's really, really struggling to talk. It's space. That's what we do. We give space and I'd like to actually refer to wonderful. You know, this from Eric Edmonds Viktor Frankl, his men's search for meaning book.

10:30 As you can see it's weathered. I've read this numerous times, this is brilliant. This is absolutely brilliant. And as Eric Edmonds said on the ski lift up, you listen to it on audio and then on the way down on your skis, you listen to Led Zeppelin absolutely very much. So. But this book amazing and he specifically mentions the quote that I love is between the stimulus. And the response there is a space there is A space and in that space is the power to choose your response. Are we in our response lies our growth?

11:14 And our freedom. That's huge. So here I am on the phone. 10 minutes of silence with John. Never once did I say are you still there? Nothing of the sort. I could hear him breathe? I could hear him SOB. I could hear him breathe. I could hear him clear his throat and he said why why did this happen to me? I still don't know anything about the situation. I don't know whether he was the Betrayed or the betrayer. I don't know. If in fact, the trail is even a situation I'm assuming so but I still don't know and we wind it up having a for our conversation. Why?

11:58 Cuz he just needed to get it out. He needed to talk to somebody about what was going on within him. It was true. Trapped, it was paralyzing him. And, of course, once he got it all out, then all the questions, start flooding, and the questions are common and they've been common across the board. So why why did she cheat? So we're going to go over the six. Common want reasons why a woman cheats. The first is intimacy. Women tend to cheat for intimacy men tend to A cheat for sex, there's a difference between sex and intimacy, okay?

12:44 Intimacy has that vulnerability aspect to it, it has that just love and just peace. So why did she cheat? Number one is intimacy, lack of intimacy. Number two, and this is the same for men and women. They want to leave the relationship, but they feel like they can't leave the relationship. It's kind of similar into the Godfather when his wife wants to leave and he's not letting her go. So what does she do? She aborts his son? She's like, I know that you will never ever be able to forgive me for that. You know, she was right. He took him a long time to forgive her for that, but wanting out of the relationship. That's a big one then there's low self-esteem. Suddenly a man pays attention to your wife and suddenly, she feels that she feels that attraction. She feels that false sense of intimacy. Then there's lack of female support. Yes.

13:49 Females need support, just like men, need support of other men. That's why team sports are so popular. It's men getting together. It's women getting together. Together to do Sports. It's the camaraderie without that camaraderie, without that support. Women are lost. Same with men, then there is an unrealistic expectation. Yeah, an unrealistic expectation. I'm sorry Disney destroyed it for so many couples, very much, so the white that white horse and the night and the chivalry and the whole nine yards. Yeah, that's an unrealistic expectation.

14:31 So, unrealistic expectation of relationships from day one, exactly. Exactly. Or as they are supposed to evolve because sometimes women who come from a long line, Line of like successful marriages in our and see their grandparents and their parents and their aunts and their uncles, and they have large families and the word like divorce is never in there, you know, type of thing. And they just have this unrealistic expectation. Especially if they do have a lot of friends, we go back to the previous one that they have a lot of friends and all our friends, have these happy marriages and everything else. So there's this unrealistic expectation that they have and then the last one is just being lonely or Feeling neglected.

15:14 Like sometimes we just get into complacency where it's just, you know, husband comes home and dinners on the table and we watch TV and we do this and they got it gets routine. And maybe for the husband, he enjoys that he enjoys that, that closeness that way, for him, it feels like closeness for her. It feels like a rut, you know, she wants to go out. She wants to be, you know, Tate and taken out on date night. She wants to be shown off. You know what? Ever. It might be. Now, I need to make sure that I'm very Crystal. Clear. These reasons. Why are absolutely not an excuse, not at all.

15:55 I do not. Do not Advocate betraying on your partner for any reason. If you want out of the relationship, you talk to your partner, you communicate with your partner. You don't do an action that completely destroys them. It's completely unnecessary, it, true. All of these reasons resulting to actions are an avoidance of a difficult conversation. Exactly. That's exactly it. So, what is the man feel? Okay, and again, I can't speak for men because I'm not a man, but I can speak on behalf of my clients. The first thing is shocked.

16:36 Like what then? There's confusion like, what? What? Huh, hmm, then, There's heartache then there's rage their sadness and then there's their territorial. Well, was it because, as I mentioned before, we talked about it, previously there's a great website. Its truth about deception Foundation, truth about discussion foundation and what they have done over the years is they have compiled information. Regarding deception regarding infidel Leti regarding cheating, they have 95 thousand responses. This is great wealth of information, and they indicated that 90% of the women that cheat have an emotional connection with whomever, they cheated, with its emotional first, 71 percent of the men.

17:35 It's a one-night stand. It's physical 43 percent of the women who cheat cheat with somebody that they both know, whereas males, it's only 22 percent that they both know, meaning 78% are strangers, strangers lose white, doesn't know him. Most of the time, he doesn't know her either, you know, type of thing. But here we are. We're a man realizes that his wife is cheating. He suddenly becomes territory. Toriel as well. Like who is it? And I want, it's not something where it's not the similar situation, where two guys get into a bar fight and, you know, they beat the crap out of each other and then, you know, the fights over and you know, he extends his hand to lift the guy up off the floor and you know I'll buy you a beer now.

18:27 No, you screw my wife, I'm not buying you a beer. You know, that's not going to happen. Becomes very, very territorial. So it becomes so Overwhelming for men and then they have all of this background information. All these things going on behind the scenes, their childhood comes front-and-center, their parents come front and center their father becomes front and center and suddenly it's extremely overwhelming for them. And they find themselves paralyzed, they are drowning in quicksand.

19:07 And they either stand still and they're still syncing or they struggle and they're still sinking and it becomes extremely overwhelming. That's kind of where I stepped in. And in John's case, I worked with him for a long period of time because we needed to break down what was going on for him, how he was actually feeling because there were differences between how he felt and how he felt Society. Thought he should feel, there's a two different things sometimes looks so The Times They Are, you know, and he wanted Keep it very quiet as did his wife.

19:51 So that was good because you know when a wife is cheated on, she wants to scream it from the mountaintops and she wants to let that toothpaste out of the tube whereas men want to keep it very, very close to the chest. It's more of a struggle for men to get over it. Because of the territorial nastas of it. I know they'd suddenly look at their wife differently, I mean, women look at their husbands differently as well, but the Forgiveness aspect is a little different and that is a very delicate could be slippery slope to go through. Is that much more men taking it personally and kind of owning my wife, protecting my wife and yeah well I'll fight you to the death because you did this and correct and they do that externally and and women kind of like that because then they suddenly have that Disney Experience where you know, oh He's Rising it, he's defending my honor, you know, and public law, and this, and that women can get kind of addicted to that.

21:03 To be like, oh, you know, kind of thing, and they'll use that because I think that that experience can change all the many of the reasons you said earlier, it's always get good. If those are empty cups, they get filled up by that experience of being fought over and exactly exactly. And we see it, we see it in all Cinema. Now I mean look at Game of Thrones and you know, just though the um, you know, and the men being Men of Steel, you know, type of thing. And we And of do it to ourselves, these stereotypes that we pigeonhole people into but then we also pigeon-holed the reactions that people are supposed to have related to it. So men can drop into a spiral where it just starts to spiral down and spiral down in spiral down and they really struggle and that's that, when that happens. They Turtle themselves in into that. She'll it's really hard to crack it because then they then feel that their manhood is affected.

22:17 and, Women go into a situation where they don't feel like they're good enough. Men don't quite have it the same way in that respect at least the men that I've worked with. It's not that they don't feel like they're good enough to their wife. They don't feel like they're good enough to society because they haven't Protected Their woman. They haven't even though they'd been the protector and the provider and they've been, you know, they've been the strengthen, the pillars, Strength and I have the family and I take care of them and this, and that when this situation happens, that cracks that Persona full force. And then, of course, other men aren't helpful. If they get wind of it, especially at a bar or something suddenly the, you know, men's are getting that are getting ribbed for it.

23:09 Yeah. Your wife stepped out on you and all this other kind of nonsense, so they like they really dig it in. Come on said really necessary, you know, type of thing or he doesn't Want to say anything to anybody else because he doesn't want to fight off, everybody else. You know, especially if 44 percent of the women who cheat cheat with somebody, they both know, and how it really comes down to communication, as we started to say, it does it just does. So it starts a journey of self forgiveness, because the man has to forgive himself, he does whether he forgives his wife as a difference. Story.

23:54 It really starts with himself. He needs to forgive himself because he is going to start going through a checklist of everything that he didn't do. Right. Was I not enough of a provider. Did I not get her this thing or that thing or materialistic thing or whatever? The situation is? But he's got to talk. He's got to ask those questions. Is this journey of Soul? Forgiveness, different. If the If the wife wants the relationship to continue or doesn't. Yes, it's absolutely. It, it falls into two different categories just as you said, so if she didn't cheat, if she cheated for all the variety of reasons except for the fact that she wanted out of the relationship, she made a mistake. Okay.

24:46 Under, you know, again, I'm not condoning it. I'm not saying that. That's, that's right. Betrayal is betrayal, it just is Cheating is cheating. It's a choice that you make in that moment of time, you can say no in that moment of time you can back off and say, mmm! Yum yum! No! No! Hey, don't want this from a man or woman's perspective. You can step back. You do have the choice, whether you are going to cheat on your spouse. Now, if the man and the woman decide that, you know, that wasn't the reason that she didn't want to. You know, leave the relationship she wants to stay that journey of self-forgiveness is layered because now he has not only to forgive himself for what he feels. Might be her his shortcomings and it really depends on what the why is, why did she do this?

25:44 You know. And if she expresses well, I'm lonely and neglectful, you know, we moved across the country. I have no friends. I have no, nothing. Somebody finally paid me at Attention, you're always working again. These are reasons, but they're still not excuses, he can decide again his choice. He can decide whether he wants to forgive her, but he has to forgive himself right either way, either way, the religions going man has to give himself. For this happened, has to forgive himself. He cannot internalized blame. He just can't. So we go back to my wonderful, Viktor Frankl and he said, when we are no longer able to change a situation, when we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.

26:40 Profound absolutely profound. So if you cannot change the situation that you're in, let's say, for example, in this particular situation, you have children, you come from a broken home, your parents got divorced. You know what that feels like as a child to have your family, go through a divorce and now your wife has stepped out. You're angry. You're going through the all the emotions. But you suddenly have that situation in the back of your mind, I don't want to divorce. I do not want to put my kids through that. I will do, I will challenge myself. I cannot change the situation.

27:23 I feel that I need to stay married for the benefit of my children. And I need to change. Because I've been challenged to do so it's very very important and it's really that journey of self-forgiveness. You really have to forgive yourself first before you can look out on everything else and they really decide in that moment of shock. When a man first discovers that his partner has betrayed him. Is there something that definitely should do and, and, or shouldn't do, or is it just unique for every situation? It's definitely unique. Research equation. I always encourage all of my clients, regardless of gender. To pause to pause to breathe to give themselves space to give themselves time do not make any decisions, no decisions whatsoever, don't make a decision, one way or the other way you are too emotional or lack of emotion because you could have apathy, you know?

28:31 And just be completely devoid of any feeling because you've gone completely numb, you know That happens as well, but just to pause to breathe to slow it down. Very much so because there's too much happening there just is and you really need to slow it down. And then you need to regain control. You need to rebuild trust and trust is layer by layer. It's Brick by Brick. It does not happen overnight. It does not at all and that requires certain things that we spoke about in episode 3, 01, complete, transparency, complete D that you are completely honest everything. You lay it all on the table, you communicate communication is such a key and we Circle back to exactly where we started. Where communication is absolutely key and you need to step out of the Shadows because you will Turtle yourself in and that hard shell.

29:40 Yeah, it's hard to get hard to get anybody in there very, very much. So what helps for most of the men that I work work with them. What I suggest is definitely support groups without a doubt. The camaraderie of talking to another man who has been through a similar experience, speaks volumes. That's why 12 step programs are so needed and so beneficial because of that sponsorship situation that you have just knowing that another man in out you can come out of the Shadows. And kind of talk about this because again, there's that shame aspect that Society is put on men related to this topic. And it's definitely, they need to ground themselves in any kind of self-care practice that they enjoy. They really need to pause.

30:38 They should not bury this. They have to face it and sometimes facing this means facing things from the past as well, and that's okay, it's absolutely okay because maybe some of those things from the past. Were meant to be here, front and center now so that you can deal with it wiser than you were back. Then when you initially went through that experience now you have wisdom and now you can pivot and see it from a different angle and maybe clean up. Up all those things, which will then help you deal with the Betrayal. So it sounds like Dairy to do this alone. Makes it infinitely more challenging. Oh, yeah, anything you do alone.

31:27 You know, you might feel like you're doing it faster. But you're not you're really not. And basically what you're doing is you're shoveling the dirt on a little faster because all you're doing is burying it, you're not dealing with it and you need to deal with it. Yeah, absolutely. Because because Men by Nature we have the masks that we have it all figured out and we don't need anybody. But when you eat these somebody and you meet other men that are have are going through or have been through that same situation. Yeah I personal experience this such a release this such a relief and knowing that others can survive things, they give gives you the hope that. Whoa, maybe I could maybe I can see my way through this as well too. So yeah, there's tremendous power in men's groups for men because it's it's so Rare that we would publicly share.

32:13 Exactly, exactly. And it's important to do so. And you know, that's why Facebook is really interesting because now you have the opportunity to post anonymously. So, you know, if you don't want to put your name on there, that's fine. No. Absolutely. But get get that support, that you need. Not that. I'm advocating, Facebook groups. I'm want to be very, very cautious on that. You know, if you're going to join your voice Facebook group, make sure it's really small like under Under 3,000, maybe even under 1,000 members, because anything bigger than that, unfortunately, you have to deal with judgment. And in this very vulnerable state of being betrayed, you do not need the Judgment of everybody else. No.

32:58 You need the understanding ear, you need the camaraderie and just as you said, uh, talking to someone else that has been through your experience. Oh, it's just like oh thank you. You have you have your shit together. I'm going to get there, you know. Now there's hope I now have hope and that's the best thing. So I talked to so many men that a relationship ends and and those are the guys that choose to just go the opposite way and and shut down and all women's suck. You can't trust anybody. And there's such a danger and falling into that into that over generalizing and thinking that whatever your situation was is how everything shall be from this. Day forward.

33:42 And that's when working with somebody that can kind of witness and is outside and not so charged can just benefit tremendously. Yes, very very much so. So we're going to end with my favorite again, Man's Search for meaning. Everything can be taken from a man. Everything can be taken from a man. But one thing The last of the human freedoms to choose one's attitude, in any given set of circumstances to choose One's Own Way.

34:25 Profound words. Absolutely brilliant. In this was written as we know decades ago but this this is a Bible for a lot of men and it's extremely extremely valuable and I encourage all of my clients to read it very much. So is that? So Vanessa, what's the best way for people to find out more about what you offer? Well, first off is my website understanding ear.com. There is a A large section of for betrayed men on there, you can always reach out to me as well through my website. I am on Instagram, trusted underscore advisor underscore for underscore betrayal. So you can always find me on Instagram as well. Again for men who have been betrayed, I am the best kept secret, so it's not something that I'm like, woohoo here. I am type of thing because I want men to feel comfortable, reaching out to me and it's always of With the strictest confidence as well.

35:27 And I've worked with men for as long as 18 months, and I know that seems like a long duration, but when you go through betrayal some men, you know, decide to leave their relationship and then they start the dating. And when you start dating after betrayal, there's a whole different set of circumstances. And as you mentioned having this generalization of, well, every woman's going to hurt me, you know, type of thing, we need to kind of move through those limiting. And beliefs and what not? And I've worked with men for as little as you know, 34 sessions, just to get them over that. Hump of I just need to talk. I just need to talk and get this out. And usually what we are conclusion is it's great that you've spoken to me and I've helped you kind of articulate your words, but now you need to speak to your wife. That's who you need to share this with, and if she's not receptive, Of to it then we need to have a conversation the three of us.

36:27 But usually by that point they're comfortable enough in speaking their truth because that's what it is. They need to speak their truth. They usually then subsequently move on. So it sounds like all best actions and outcomes. Communication, it keeps coming back and back to the end of the show. If you're a man, that was raised and taught and told that you're supposed to stuff and deny and not share not have feelings to begin with. You're setting yourself up for a life of Despair. Hmm. you know, I noticed the first time you're on two episodes ago, More comments than normal all across YouTube across from Yeoman feel dot org and the blog post but all the comments were from women.

37:15 And yeah, and it helps get like, I like all the stats that I can see from any sort of platform, that breaks it down. There are more male listeners than female, but far more filho, people will stand up and publicly say, I listened to the show and I got something from this show. So many of you, haven't listened to the prior prior show, with, with Vanessa do, so you don't need to be. A perpetrator or a victim of betrayal to get gold out of this information because again, it comes back to communication, it comes back to enjoying that pause not being over, reactive not just jumping into anger, if that's what you're prone to do. It's not just jumping into shame. If you feel like you've been blamed or it's something anything is your fault a relationship ending, does not make a failure out of anybody now.

38:01 Dan Savage said it best, oh my God, he had the best quote, he was in about divorce and how, you know, when people comment on divorced people are like, oh, I'm so sorry this and that, and he's like, no, no, no. We should be congratulating them. You you survived X. Number of years, that's great. And you both made the decision to divorce kudos to you. Congratulations on being in a long-term relationship for X number of years. Congrats. And I love that. I'm like yes, that's exactly it. You know because Whew, if you lost your spouse to death, you know, people would say oh you were married for 30 years, you know.

38:43 Congratulations, you know, that's okay. But if you say, oh, you know, I've been married for 30 years but we got divorced. Oh, I'm so sorry. No way, wait a second. No know why is it different whether the spouse died or the spouse moved on, you know, with someone else? Yeah, good point. Yeah. And I earlier this year, we had a show on being happily divorced because another man that introduced himself that way. Yeah, you can. Ideally, it is the best decision for all involved. Ideally any decision, a couple makes is the best decision for all involved. So yeah, there's not reason to be. Oh, that's so I'm so sorry. You made a decision. No, no, this is great. You made a decision that, that, that in and of itself because sometimes we get paralyzed in making a decision.

39:27 And that's usually what I need to work. With my clients, all my clients on is making that decision, whether you stay in your relationship or you move. And from your relationship is inconsequential to me as a trusted advisor. It makes no difference to me, either way what I want for my clients is that they've made a decision and that they're comfortable with the decision that they've made their not wishy-washy about it and whatnot. They're comfortable with it, it's not going to be 100%. You can't make a decision on anything, that's a hundred percent. But in this situation, if you're 85 percent comfortable, Leaning in this direction and that's their Direction you want to go in then jump in, you know, and do so, yeah.

40:13 Yeah. If I had so much the most beneficial part of coaching, receiving coaching being a client when the is making decisions moving forward, not just me on my own when I'm down in bed. I will stay stuck and an apathy for as long as life will, let me uh-huh. But when I work with someone to get pushed and prodded and reminded of the value, I add the goodness that's in me that that coffin, we can't see, you know that that's just what matters most and you know I believe Everybody makes the best decision, they can in any circumstance, but it doesn't mean that is the best decision for, you know, the rest of your life or for a relationship or any like that. So, yeah, self-forgiveness nothing. Nothing can happen without that great and you continue to move on and what we do as humans and ourselves is that we don't invest in ourselves.

41:04 You're a dog owner. I'm a dog owner. Anything happened to scout? Oh my gosh you're there at the vet just like that whatever she needs. She can have it all. No. No problem whatsoever. But you, mmm. Do you invest in yourself? You do I do. But the average people don't invest in themselves and that's a really big concern. You need to invest in yourself. You need those people around you, to lift you up, to show you your own potential. We all see it. Sometimes, it's hard to see it yourself, especially if you're in the jar. You can't see the label, right? Yeah. When you're in a bucket of mud, you think your mud exactly. Thanks Vanessa.

41:49 Thanks so much. I am sure we will talk again, I look forward to it. So full of wisdom, and insights, and just real world help and service. So, thanks for everyone, listening. Thanks to be sure. And check out prior shows, everything that Vanessa mentioned as well as her of Prior appearance, visit Real Men, full Is it via visit real men feel that org? See the blog post for this episode? We'll have links to all the various links books and resources mentioned wherever you're discovering real men. Feel, Please, Subscribe. Follow like share the summon, post a review, a comment. Especially if you're a man, you can always reach out to me at real men, feel at gmail.com, be good to yourself, forgive yourself and live, your best fucking life possible.

42:35 Be well. Be well.