Divine Conversations: The Intersection of Spirituality and Humanity

0:00 And you will see that in the Vedic astrology era right now, they're calling it the Goddess age, right? Don't be afraid of that. Please don't be afraid of that. The Goddess age is, if we truly understand it, a realisation that the Goddess does not work without the God and that we need to go back to not hating each other and understanding that we choose to be feminine or masculine. But we can also tap into the other energies. If your job is not serving you, if your lifestyle is not serving you, you need to ask for help with your spirit guides or your angels because you're not serving the women in your life or your children in your life. If you are doing something because you have to, but you are smothering your soul, you are destroying your sense of self. Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel. I'm your host, author, coach and healer, Andy Grant. You can learn more about me by visiting the andygrant.com. Real Men Feel reminds men that they're human beings and have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men are not having, but that all men and the women who love them can benefit from. My guest today is Katish Haberfield. Katich is a past life aggression therapist, author, medium, poet, and direct channeler of divine feminine and divine masculine energies.

1:21 Katich takes us on a deep dive into channelling the archangels and the divine feminine and masculine. She opens up about how uncomfortable she's been as a channeler, the differences between channels, psychics and mediums, and her experience in body selection before she was born. She also shares what she's most concerned about for her sake of her sons and has a message for the men of the world. Let's do it. Hello Katish, and welcome to Real Men Feel. Hi Andy. Thanks for having me. It's, it's a pleasure. I'm, I'm really looking forward to this conversation. You're a Chandler of divine feminine and masculine energies. So what brings a person to that? Was there a pivotal moment in your life that that put you on this path? Lots and lots of different things all came together. But I guess probably my work in the fields of understanding how to communicate with our ancestors and our loved ones who haven't made it to the afterlife is probably the the main thing that led to my training to be able to channel. Because I had to learn fundamentally how to communicate with those who were desperate for help and who were stuck in the in between realms before I could learn to hear a higher vibration.

2:38 So I had to learn to work with and facilitate those in extreme distress and attune my body to that vibration, which is, you know, quite a shock to the system. Before I could, you know, prove myself through the service that I've done, through helping all of the stocks, souls and individuals to go to the light so that they would trust that I was, I had good intentions and that I had and could trust myself to bring through a message. Because I don't know if your listeners know much about channelling, but I've learned through watching other people and there are amazing individuals who channel like Basha who actually move themselves aside and then the entity embodies in their and they have their eyes closed.

3:33 And so the channeller is a basically it's like a semi state of consciousness. They don't remember the conversation at all in any way, shape or form. And you can talk to somebody. And I've never seen Basher in real life, only watch him on YouTube. But you know, he waits, He's not wakes up. He comes back into his body and he goes, did that help? He's got no recollection. And he watches back the video afterwards and says, oh, OK, that's interesting. I'll take some notes for myself. But so I stay, I could teach, stay in my body. And I have to use my mental capacities and spiritual capacities to interpret the messages that I'm getting simultaneously. So it's the divine feminine masculine basically uses my knowledge and my skill set and my set of life circumstances to explain and use examples rather than me being pushed aside and then just saying, right, I'm taking over the session and this is what I want you to use. It's, it's more of AI.

4:37 Guess it's how they help me understand what I chose to come in in this lifetime to do and what I've chosen to do in other lifetimes. And it can be quite confronting and offer on I will say things and I'm like, right, something like that. Or I didn't know that we were going to say that in this show. But it's always with good intention and it's how I learn and I validate and I check things that I've learned on TV and newspapers and magazines and books that I've read since my early 20s to test is this spiritual concept or this life concept?

5:19 Does it resonate with me? Does it match my experience? And I'm a real mentalist, like a really logical and rational person. And so for me, it has been quite the struggle to say, you know, I'm a manager at consultant, I'm a university lecturer, and I like forms and processes and procedures and strategies. And this has to use a whole different part of my brain, a whole different consciousness. And I'm really uncomfortable with it. But I have to fight my inner fear and trust that it knows where it wants to go. So it's a long way of answering your question, but I hope that's a good enough start to get the conversation flowing. Yeah.

6:01 And so I really appreciate the specifics about channeling. So channeling is allowing in another energy to come into your body either fully or partially to communicate whatever they have to say. Because I wanted to ask, for the sake of everyone listening, if you could explain the difference between a channel, a psychic and a medium. Yeah, good question. So, you know, people can only explain it in their own terms. And a medium to me is somebody who is like a radio signal, like a radio antenna or a mobile phone tower, if you want to. They can sense different frequencies that wish to communicate with them.

6:41 And now not all frequencies that are well-intentioned. And some might have messages. Some are different thought forms that are floating around. You know, thoughts go through the ether, through the air, and sometimes they're not even amps. But a meeting specifically sets an intention and says, well, hopefully I wish to be of service. I feel there's energy around me that wants to come through. Let me do my procedures. Let me make sure I'm safe. You're not allowed to come into my energy field, but I can sense your energy. What do you have to say Now? I'll open the door to communication with you and please identify yourself. And so depending upon your mediumship skills, and this is no reflection on other mediums, but I found it frustrating when I was going and watching live mediumship sessions and, you know, registering for people's paid events that they would come through with are getting a letter A. And this person here is for someone in the audience and it's like a grandma figure.

7:44 I was like, I need more than that, you know, like, why can't you bring through sentences and full instructions and whatever. The thing is, they're doing the best that they can. But because I'm such a, if you'd like to say a masculine energy in a female body, meaning in the proudest sense of masculinity, I'm a very protective, goal focused, results orientated person. And so I'm like, if I'm going to breakthrough a message, I don't want it to be waffly. I want people to understand my communication and they're coming to me because they have a problem to solve. But yet I'm also this time around a female. And so I struggle with the fact that in my own past life regression sessions, I've brought through mostly males to learn the art of what it feels like to be masculine, The challenges that I have felt in other lifetimes.

8:40 So that when I come in and do a mediaship session, I can go, oh, that's a man. And I know easily because I know that energy I've I've tapped into my soul. I've experienced some looking at the back of your sign there warrior lifetimes, some king lifetimes, some magician lifetimes and some feminine more feminine kind of lifetimes. And so my training has been learning about myself so that I can identify in signs and symbols, colors and codes also quadrants in my mind what is the message, who is saying it and how can I be the most direct because I also don't like to waste people's time for psychic. You can in my best way to to explain it is that a psychic has an intention to read the energy around them and help the person bring through wisdom.

9:31 But a psychic usually is involved with reading the energy of the person. So say for you, Andy came to me and said, can you tell me what's going on in my life at the moment? A psychic might say, sure, give me a minute. And some psychics can read auras or, you know, they can do all sorts of different things. So they get messages from you, the person, rather than your archangels or your deceased grammar or somebody who's stuck or whoever it is. So that's how I put it in three categories is what's the intention of the message? Are you reading the energy of the person in front of you? Or is there a message that comes in from somebody who needs help? Or is it for humanity's purpose? So I try to box it.

10:15 And, you know, I, I mean, my first training was a management consultant. So I like dot flow diagrams and charts. And I can't figure out how to do that. I've tried many times to to go on different software tools and explain things via diagrams, but I still can't work it out because it's too airy and fluffy. But I hope that sort of compartmentalises it for people who are listening, that there are different boxes and depending upon our intention and what the person needs for a session or a message, you can categorize them into different boxes. But also, I do believe that every single person on earth has the capacity to be any of those. A psychic, a medium, a psychic medium, and a shower. But it depends upon the body that they choose when they come in as to the body's capacity.

11:07 Not all bodies are the same. And we choose the body for the purpose. And what is it here that what is it that we're here for? Do we need to learn those skills? And mostly, I believe psychic skills can both commonly be used for ourself in terms of understanding intuition and those gut responses which say, am I safe or am I not? And so I would say to people who are listening, you are psychic when you say I need to stop at this light or I'm going to turn left and get off the freeway here. Or maybe I need to run back in and get my wallet. And I might just sit down for a minute because I think there's a reason why I left my wallet and I hit my house. And meanwhile, by leaving your wallet in your house, maybe you missed the drunk driver, or maybe you had to catch a later bus and the love of your life ended up being on that bus. Who knows?

11:58 But your psychic skills are predominantly there to connect you with your intuition and your higher self so that you can say I'm OK, basically. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I I tell people all the time that everybody is psychic. It's just you accept it. Do you believe it? Do you use it? Do you exercise it, build on it. But yeah, that that that base ability is available to to everybody. So you also, you have a connection with the Archangels and I really want to know how, how do you experience that? Is that a energy takeover? Is that a visual thing? Is it hearing what they're saying? What, what? What is it like for you? I smile here because it's mostly a lot of a very casual communication.

12:39 It's banter because what they have showed me through my training is that they that they have tried to communicate with me in many lifetimes with many levels of success. And so predominantly in this lifetime, it was they were here sort of a transition facility to say radio, let's move you on, cast us. But to be honest with you, Andy, I've identified most with Archangel Michael and that's not a surprise because most people when you say in Archangel's name, they'll come up with Archangel Michael, right? They'll go Archangel Michael, Archangel Raphael, Archangel, whoever comes to the tongue. And because he's seen as the protector and he is a religious figure, a biblical figure, but he's also more than that. And so my job in this lifetime has been to learn to let go of him.

13:32 And that has been quite a frightening experience for me because I've had to undergo lots of training. That is not the purpose of this podcast, but in a, a therapy called spirit releasement therapy. But as part of that, I've had to learn to call in angelic assistance to help me whilst I've had my training wheels on, so to speak, because I was like, I need to understand fear and what it means for a human being to be afraid, whether they are male or female. And who's the strongest person that I can get to show me? Well in Archangel Michael because you know, he's the one who slayed the serpent or the devil or whatever you want to do as your religious memory.

14:18 And so he was my main Archangel to connect with, but also he was wanting to work with other people. But because we worked together in so many different lifetimes, we have a sort of a buddy, buddy, brother, brother, kind of a feeling. And so he banters and I didn't know this and still I started doing class regression, class life regression therapy. And my clients would bring him through and he would, they would explain to me what he looked like. And it wasn't like the religious iconography. He came to them in their sessions. And he's always presented to me as a like Fred Astaire in Singing in the Rain, with a full black suit, top hat and tails. And he's dancing and he always makes me laugh and he always makes my clients laugh.

15:05 And he's sarcastic. And it has made me question, is this really Archangel Michael? Nobody else sees him like that. And he showed me the different ways that other people have seen him. But he's like, I have to be true to our relationship. And part of the test in this lifetime is if you can determine a fake spirit guide or a real one, including archangels. And I've come across fake archangels. And I can tell you it's nasty because the purpose of that is partly with your intuition, intuition and guidance to say what is going on around me. Do I trust this wisdom that is coming through? And so I have had lifetimes where I have been a Roman and Archangel Zac Kyle has come through and he's shown me to shown himself to me in a Roman warrior suit.

15:56 And he's he laughs. And I've said it on a podcast, too, where he says I spent the entire lifetime trying to get you to see the destruction you were causing through the battles that new Romans were using to conquest other lands. But I also understand that's just part of being masculine. You conquer, you protect, you explore. You've got this real urge to see what the world's about and what is out there and how you can have a bigger property, how you can feed your children, how you can have more satisfaction in your life. But I couldn't get through to you in that lifetime. And each time I've tried a different way. And this time I'm going to dovetail, if you wish to use that word on the back of Archangel Michael. And he will bring him through.

16:46 He will bring through my essence. And we'll do it through your spirit. Release and pass off regression therapy clients and on your podcast. But also you need to remember that you're a female in this lifetime and life has brought you a lot of challenges and you're a single mum. You've been a single mum for a long time after a divorce. And you need to learn that you embody both masculine and feminine aspects within your role of being in a female suit. Because like any man who is a single dad, you also have to be a nurturer. So you have feminine qualities. You have to be masculine in that you need to protect, but also a female does protect your child as well.

17:27 So you need to understand in this lifetime that you embody both the feminine and the masculine. And in order to do that, you need to do a little bit of work with Archangel, and then we're going to move you on to somebody else. So I hope that answers your question. So is that why in the beginning you said even though we have this great relationship with Archangel Michael and you have this banter, but it was your mission to let go of him, so you need to let go of him to move into your femininity? Yeah, because now they want me to work with it, with both the divine feminine, dovine masculine in different ways, but they like, you're a female in this lifetime. Do you get it? You know, have a look at yourself. Go look, take your clothes off. Look in the mirror.

18:07 You're a female. You're not a male. We've let you experience all of your masculine in a lifetime. So you can understand and appreciate the masculine in your life. Because you have two sons, right? You don't have a husband. You didn't get along with your husband. That's fine. There was a comic relationship. It served its purpose. You're not bagging him, but you're by yourself now. You don't have to be the man, you're the finger. So. And we want to show you how to embody the energies so you can honor. So if humanity can see, yes, we choose a body suit, but it's a confusing time and we all naturally have to move in and out of masculine and feminine roles, no matter what our body suit is. And so you have it's the last 10 years in a real warrior kind of AI must protect, I must expand and I mustn't conquer my mind to understand what I'm here for. And now they're like, OK, you ready to be conditioned? She's a girl.

19:01 You ready? Like no. Does that mean I have to lose Archangel Michael? Yes, He's he's comes to you as a bloke. He's a masculine energy. And I've I've cried and screamed, no, I can't do it. You can't leave me. And here, come here. Are you ready yet? No, and finally I'm ready and I've let him go, but he's still there if I need him. Right. Yeah. And, and he's there for anybody that needs him, right? That's right. Yeah. You just have to speak in your mind or out loud, and they're there for you. But they don't like to be used as a clutch. And that's what they're trying to show me. They're there if they need, because there's a world of interesting, beautiful frequencies and light beings that also have messages, and they want us to learn that expansion can go through the frequency of love, not fear.

19:57 Is every woman channelling the divine feminine and is every man channelling the divine masculine? Or is the divinity versions of that different from just walking around day-to-day in this human suit? Yeah. So there's two concepts here. 1 is that you're not the body that you're in because we actually do select our body before we come into this life. And so it's a well when we go to the between lives sessions with my clients, so you know, they leave their body, they see the spirit float up on high, they do a body, a life review and then we can take them to the soul cancel and they choose their next lifetime. So it's a huge long checklist.

20:37 But in the human mind, we see it in a period of 20 minutes, right? And when we do the body selection process, my mind just goes tip, Yep, she took that one off the suit, off the suit rack. And actually she, she, you know, had three options. But I really didn't understand it in all honesty, Andy, until this morning in the middle of the night. They explained my body selection choice. And I'll keep that private. But there were certain reasons that I chose my body and to come in female this time because it actually had to do with ancestral issues that I am helping heal through both sides of my family. And I didn't know that until the middle of the night until they showed me very clearly where my body stores fear. So the body is chosen to help you. And so because the body that you choose and it it to be honest, I haven't done somebody who's changed gender or who comes in with gender dysmorphous or some kind of a struggle with their physical identity.

21:35 I haven't had clients like that. So I can't tell you for people with all the different experiences of, of wanting to be a different gender. But I know for people that come in as a female and are happy with being a female, or come in as a male and are happy as being a male and don't wish to change that, that implicit in the body of the suit that they choose is the divine feminine and the divine masculine. But The thing is that we have to understand that we are not our body, we are spirit. And spirit is essential. Essentially doesn't have a label that we humans call masculine or feminine, but it has qualities. And so Archangel Michael could put on a dress if you liked, and he would put it on happily if that's the way you needed to see it.

22:24 But we humans are complex, and we use our mind to create pictures. And so it really just does depend upon who you have chosen to be in this lifetime. But yeah, you are your essence, and your essence is not your name and it's not who you are. It's more than that. It's a composite of all the lifetimes you have ever had and all the personalities. And it's just so hard to explain, but you just have to trust that you have access to whatever energy you need to help you understand who you are at precisely the right time, even if it feels like it's precisely the wrong time. But yeah, is is that part of the the key that that many people don't use?

23:05 You must, you must ask or you must take some sort of effort, do something consciously to access the the energies that are different, that are, that are in you, in, in the moment for whatever is needed next. Yeah. So my, my higher self would say you need not to learn not to be stubborn as Katish. And it's taken her nearly 50 years to ask for help in any shape or form. So it's a part of that is yes, they are always surrounding you and they are here to help. But we have free will. And so they are bound by how you determine free will and if you made contracts before you came down to help a person or do a thing that contracts in your own mind.

23:50 And so they kind of look, if you imagine they had a great big scroll or a checklist, right? I know this soul, this is her essence. So I know that in this lifetime she is a Tish. She could be Alfred in another lifetime. But right now I'm with her in this moment in time, in the constraints of Earth. And according to my energy signatures that I can see for her, she said she wants to do this, this and this, but she's stuck and I can help her. I'm standing right next to her, right in front of her, and she cannot for the life of her say out loud, I need some help. And so for some people, it's simply getting to a point and maybe they take their whole lifetime to do it. That says help.

24:31 And then they would say, dear, who do you want help from? And maybe you yell out and then you'll like to your mum or your grandma or somebody, and if they're in the sky or the ether, they will respond with a message or a dream or whatever. But what they want us to understand is we are always surrounded by the ancestors, the angels, all the different light beings, and all of them can help us. But the one that you cry out in your most afraid moments and moments of distress is the one that you resonate with at that time of fear. And that energy will come forward and help you. But they also want you to move through your fear and understand that you might be holding them back a bit because they have other things they want to do, even angels and archangels and other experiences they want to experience. And when you move past fear, you can say, oh, Dad, I love you and I know you're in the light, but can you find an Angel to help me right now?

25:30 And then I'll come in and dance in front of you or do whatever they want. And then you're like, oh, I know that energy signature. And so now next time I need help, I'll say, OK, Joe, Michael, can you help me? He was like, here I am. I was already here. All right, Now show me how you can help me. Well, and different people say, well, he put a feather in front of me or he stopped a truck running into me, or he's made a rainbow appear or whatever it is. But it's a process that you work through according to your mind and your experiences. And I think I've completely lost, lost the point in my question. But yes, we can be involved with any energy that we like. Yeah, I often say that often times the the bravest thing you can do is ask for help. And when I share that I'm usually not thinking about connecting to, to angels, but you're putting out, yes, that works with, with the Archangels as well. So that that's great.

26:22 Do you find that men and women experience spirituality differently or do they carry different spiritual wounds? Or like are all humanly the same or men and women different spirit in spiritual for the sake of spirituality since. Yeah, so look, I've had lifetimes as a female. This is the only way to know how to answer that. Where I've been a warrior like personality, you know, like a Viking queen, I've had as a past life memory. And so does she embody the essence of just a female? Well, yes, I saw her crown when I went in. I did an Akashic record session and it was a very delicate, very fragile, beautiful, petite little crown.

27:07 She was fierce, you know, she, she would be scary to run into in a pub in a, in a on a dark stormy night because she was brave and bold. And so she embodied who she needed to be in that lifetime. And she experienced spirituality through nature because that was the time. And, you know, she was also a conqueror and a protector. So it really just does depend upon the lifetime and what you are actually here for because you could also be in, I haven't discovered this for myself, but like a Disney kind of a Princess and have some kind of a cared for pampered female existence or a care for masculine Prince like existence.

27:50 And why don't I remember that if everybody goes through similar sort of experiences. And the answer that I've only been able to access is because in those lifetimes, if I was pampered for, if I was cared for, if I was loved and I went to the light at the end of my life and I was satisfied, then that is a beautiful experience for the soul and there was nothing to be healed. Whereas if I've had and can access a memory in the cache records or through past life professional or through running poultry, or however you remember the essence of yourself in another lifetime that is coming through either for two reasons. One, there's some knowledge or wisdom that you need to tap into that is relevant for you in this lifetime. Or B, there's some unfinished business and some unhealing business that either their body that they'd chose in that lifetime couldn't cope with or they didn't get finished with, or they haven't gone to the light and they're still in the middle of a process of a review because they need to tell somebody.

28:48 This happened to me and it wasn't OK. And I regret what happened and I took this action action. And I'm still stuck here because I'm worried about it. And I don't want you to do the same thing. And you are me and I'm frightened for you because I don't think you your I don't think how greatest soul has learnt the lesson yet. And I don't want you to repeat the mistake. So to answer your question again, and it seems frustrating to, to say it, we can be both and everything and only one if we need to be. But it is really, really personal. And it's only an answer that you can answer when you say help, you know, who am I? Why am I here? Why am I struggling? Why am I not seeing results?

29:31 And sometimes Archangel Michael will say to me, remember, you need to do 50% of the effort, which is part of the last question, which is have you tried? You know, sometimes, sometimes I will do, I'll get to the end of the day and I'll say, I'll throw my hands up in the air and I'll say, how do you get done what I wanted to do today? And they'll say, all right, talk me through what you did today. Oh, I did a load of washing. I took my kid to the doctor. I did the bus run. I did the grocery shop. I did a podcast interview. I went on somebody else's podcast. And I still didn't get to do my social media posts to attract a client. And they're like, did you just follow? Did you write a list? And I'm like, no, because I followed what needed to be done. And they said, well, that's all you meant to do ever follow. The first thing that you need to do that says this is urgent. You know, it's like the old prime management systems. It's like you can have lots of different buckets. What's urgent?

30:21 What's going to burn down your house on fire? What what feels like, oh, I can't do that today. I don't want to do it. It's a real push. And what sounds like, oh, that's a lovely thing. I'd like to, I'll just, you know, and then there's the, oh, I have to do that. And so in every moment, with every choice we make, we go, oh, I should do that. And if I go, oh, I should do a post on social media, they're like, the person is going to feel that, oh, you know what I mean? And they're going to go, that's not genuine, That's not authentic. And for me, my number one value across all lifetimes has been authenticity. And so they're like, well, you can try and put it up. They'll post if you feel obligated to do it, do it. And see if you get crickets and I get crickets and they're like, right, well, was it the right time? Was it?

31:09 So you're blaming and chastising yourself for just doing family related things. Well, because that's what you needed to do. And part of being spiritual being is to know that you are both a spiritual being and a human being. And once we're told by lots of gurus to be a being, we are also a doing as well. We have to do. Otherwise we could all lie down on the couch and just go, I'm ready to die. But if you try to do that, if you just said I've had enough today and I just want to die right now, you can't. Right, that's right. Yeah, I've tried that. It doesn't work. Yeah, I've tried it too. It doesn't work right. I said I've not enough, Come and take me. And they're like, OK, close your eyes and say I'm ready to die. Did it work?

31:52 No. Right. Well, there's not time for you to tell. You still haven't done any jobs, right. OK. So you, you mentioned Akashic records and so I, I've done Akashic record readings for a dozen years now and that's the closest my experience is opening the record for someone else is the closest I have to a channeling experience because I do feel my energy change. I feel the vibration rise and I often don't remember what was said. Some, some people have told me that I spoke with accents or did some weird, you know why you weren't just, it's, it's not me. So that's the, it's like closest thing I've had to channeling. So you, I know you have two sons. So what's your biggest concern for them as you look at the state of the world today?

32:36 Well, it's a good question. And I remember going, so just a little bit of a story. When I was going through my divorce, I found myself spending a lot of time in a Buddhist monastery, right? And I went to a Film Festival. I had a little mini Film Festival one evening and I remember watching it was about men's rituals to mark the passage of time, to mark becoming a man. And I went up to the film director at the end and I said I'm a single mum. Unfortunately their dad works away. He has to for his work, he has to support us and he's chosen that. It's it lights him up, it sets his soul on fire. He's really good at it and he can't be in a city so he can't be near us. And I've honoured that.

33:20 But I also know that I've tried, but I'm a female and I'm worried about when I get to the time that traditionally in traditional societies there would be some kind of an initiation which said to them, you are now a man. And I'm like, I'm a woman. And at that time my dad had just died of prostate cancer. And I knew even then at that time that prostate cancer is both a physical disease but it was also a spiritual sign that there is something up in your life which said I am a man, but I have also felt displaced in my body in this lifetime. I've felt that I had to do something to earn an income. And I, he said to me many times, I feel like a square peg in a right round hole.

34:08 And so I would say in the last few years of his life, he was excellent, excellent, fantastic at his job and he got great fulfilment. But it came with a lot of struggle and sweat and things that he didn't wish to have chosen for his personal experience. But he had a wife and he had two daughters and he had things that he wanted to achieve for them. And he also had a wife who had a whole section of things that she had missed out on in her children childhood that she wanted for her children. So there was that balance and that compromise. Oh, my wife wants this. I don't really care about that aspect, but it's really, really important for her. So I have to make sacrifices. And for us he had to move into a new country to puff New Guinea, a third world country to earn an income. And I had to go to boarding school. And he had, we had gone on the tour of the boarding school, which was unrenovated the year before they left for PNG. And he just joked he was a real joker but people didn't get his sense of humour.

35:04 You either got him or you didn't. And our own being saying to me, oh, if you're naughty girl could teach, we'll send you to boarding school like it was just a joke. And what happened? He had an opportunity to move out of a soul sucking job and get going to a new division and they would pay for my private school education. And he's like, well, I'm struggling financially to do it myself. My wife is doing a job that she once loved, but it's also soul sucking for her. What if we split up our family and the eldest one who seems to be resilient, can go to boarding school and will take the little one with us? And so they went to a different country and I saw them four times a year. And my father would cry every time he would come home to visit me on a business trip.

35:46 He would take me down the road to Italian restaurant with a singing waiter, which was amazing. And he would walk me up the hill. And I knew when he would then walk down to the hill to his accommodation, which no longer exists, that he cried. He was a soft man. And so now to answer your question, my children are both masculine and feminine and I have two different sorts of men who one is 18 now and one is 16 turning 17. One is an affectionately, the little one, I affectionately call him my he man. He's into bodybuilding. He's built himself a beautiful body with dedication because he wants to be a real bloke, like the muscle bloke out of his appearance.

36:27 He's immaculately dressed. He needs to bond with men. He likes it. He doesn't have a dad with him full time, so I sent him to an all all boys school so he could be surrounded by males and men teachers. And we've been blessed to have a smattering of female teachers, but he's been surrounded during the day with men. And that was intentional for me. It's a long story, but anyway. And my other son, he's like the Cambridge Scholar or the Oxford Scholar, if you mention Archangel, might form bodied in him. He's like that and he's quiet and sensitive and he's fiercely proud and fiercely academic and he shows his masculine qualities in different ways that are like a scholar. And they are both different aspects of masculinity and both men, both boys who, you know, the little one who looks older than the older 1, he gets mistaken for being 20 when he's 16.

37:25 He has they both have their issues with their father, which they've overcome with time. And you know, I must have put a wish out into the universe because my last year my son went on a cocoa trial hike and that is in PNG. And that is the trial that the Australians defended Papua New Guinea and Australia from the invasion of the Japanese, right. So it is a brutal, brutal hike, gets classified as one of the most difficult in the in the world. And you know, it is a dangerous hike. And from the moment that they decided to go on the hike and my ex-husband pay for that and he and my little son decided to do that, he offered it to my biggest son, but he said, no, that's not me. They had to rigorously, brutally train for that. And I knew I was afraid.

38:17 I was afraid that my ex-husband wouldn't train enough to get fit enough because he's a lot older than me to be. I didn't want him dying on the hike. You know, I'm protective of my son and of my ex-husband because I was like, what's the worst case scenario? Both of them don't train enough and one or both of them die on the track. All right. And I also knew that I had to let my son go and have an initiation experience. I was also sad that I've never returned to Papua New Guinea because I also considered it one of my homes because wherever I rest my head, I feel at home. And I've worried about Papua New Guinea and the corruption and brutality and the lack of education for citizens and trying to understand the culture because it was an eye opener for me and I loved it. And I would like to go back to PNG but it wasn't part of my requirements and it was a dangerous hike. They had to helicopter a man out who who was in a life threatening condition and my son stood next to that man as he almost lost his life.

39:19 And so you could say, did my wish come true? Yes, my son was confronted with a near death experience of another man with his father by his side. Yes, he got his initiation and he got to do something very masculine for him. And then my other son went on a beautiful cultural experience with his father to Vietnam, and that was appropriate for his intellect and his way to discover food and culture. But they were both different versions of masculinity. And for me, they were both initiations and now I believe they're both men. Not eternally because I have to be careful with my words. I have done eternal bounce to people before and that is a catch. I am grateful that my husband, who became my ex-husband was able to tap into his true essence and say I need to give these boys an experience with me that may challenge us all. But I know that my boys will then be men and they can relate to me as men, not just as dad.

40:18 And so in a way I had to hand them over and say I'm not a man. I can't do those initiations. Here you go, Dad. I wonder if you have any message or recently ever received any messages for men there that are, you know, hesitant to ask for help or right on the brink of, of, of exploring their own spirituality and growth, anything for them? Yes. So my, my wisdom for them is it is time to do your work. And you will see that in the Vedic astrology era right now, they're calling it the goddess age, right? Don't be afraid of that.

40:59 Please don't be afraid of that. The Goddess age is, if we truly understand it, a realisation that the Goddess does not work without the God and that we need to go back to not hating each other and understanding that we choose to be feminine or masculine. But we can also tap into the other energies and we have done healing in other lifetimes. But now it's time for the man to say, how can I honour the intention of all the relationships I'm in? Where do I need to be the feminine? Where do I be need to be the masculine? But most importantly, can I stop putting myself like Khatija's father, in a situation where I'm a square peg in a roll, in a round hole to protect my family? If it's not serving you, if your job is not serving you, if your lifestyle is not serving you, you need to ask for help with your spirit guides or your angels. Because I get quite, quite emotional about this. Because you're not serving the women in your life or your children in your life.

42:00 If you are doing something because you have to, but you are smothering your soul, you are destroying your sense of self because you will die with regrets. And your children and your wife or your husband if you're that Wang client will die with regrets that they didn't let you get to be who you were because they need to see you for you. And we all need to see ourselves for ourselves. But if one person in our household is not allowed to be who they truly are, the rest of the people in our household aren't allowed to be who they truly are. And that would be the message. Right. Awesome. Yeah, I agree 100%.

42:42 Katich, tell me about your podcast. My podcast is called the Infinite Life with Katich Abatul. It's done as an exploration, which said I think I've reincarnated before and it went with very my first experience of me explaining the story of turning up to the Buddhist monastery going help. I don't think I can be married anymore and saying that that breaks every personal value that I ever had about starting a family. Why am I experiencing this and having it's episode 1 if anyone wants to listen to it, A very deep experience with the Geshi who's like the head monk where I recognised that he was my mother in a past lifetime and a profound emotional healing that I had.

43:23 And it was confirmed by all the nuns. And then saying, OK, that was a bit weird. I need to look after my children now. And I'm going to forget all of that for a good period of time. And then for some known reason, I'm going to be drawn to healing myself in lockdown. And I'm going to get a pair of singing bowls and I'm going to start understanding sound and light as a vibration. And that led me to past life regression. And I said, why? How can anybody understand if you've lived before if you don't trust that somebody says I'm King Arthur or whatever it is? I'm going to turn a video on in my sessions with full written consent of the participants and see where it takes us. And so I think we've done over 100 case studies of past lives in this location on Earth and in other dimensions and other frequencies. And that's what the podcast set out to do is me saying I'm a university lecturer, I'm a management consultant, but there's something else.

44:20 I need to understand myself and I need some people to help me. And the brave souls who came on the podcast all identify themselves as people that my soul knows. So there's 100 case studies of reincarnation. And if you don't believe in reincarnation, that's OK. But if you are inclined, you can also listen to Archangel Z Kale talk about animals or channel wisdom of animals. And you could talk to people fascinating that I interview on podcasts. But I had this urge to conquer my own question was, have I lived before? I don't need to leave some kind of legacy. Nice. What's the best way for people to find out all the things that you're up to? Just type my name Katish in Google and you'll get my website which is just katish.com and you can have a look at whatever resonates with you there. Awesome, I really thank you for your time sharing all the powerful things that you have experienced and continue to experience.

45:15 And I love how you're using every you're using your experience to serve other people, open them up and to me, that's what the world needs more of. Thanks for joining us everybody. Please visit Real Men Field at org see the blog post with this episode. We'll have links to all the various resources discussed. Wherever you're discovering Realman Field, please subscribe, like, follow, do all the things you can on the platform you're on. If this conversation has opened up desire in you to dive deeper into your own spirituality, please visit theedgrant.com and consider an Akashic record reading. They are powerful and sightful and healing. Until next time, be good to yourself.