Finding Freedom: Healing After Incarceration

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Forgiveness is not the same as
forgetting, but for for when we

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don't forgive another person,
they are living rent free in our

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head.
Can you hold people accountable

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and forgive them?
Yes, absolutely.

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, Andy Grant.
You can learn more about me at

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the andygrant.com.
Real Men Feel, as we remind men,

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that they're allowed to be
human, encourage them to drop

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the mask, the bravado, all the
nonsense.

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Today's conversation is powerful
because it's about prison, not

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just the kind with bars and
locked doors.

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My guest today is Matt Melvin,
author of Bullied Behind Bars.

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Matt survived incarceration,
bullying, and isolation, but

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what really stayed with him was
the mental prison of blame and

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anger that followed him long
after he was physically free.

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What makes Matt's story so
relatable is that you don't have

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to go to prison to understand
it.

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Many men are trapped by shame,
fear, past trauma, or the belief

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that they don't belong anywhere.
Today we talk about bullying,

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masculinity, emotional survival,
men's groups, belonging, and

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what it really takes to feel
free inside.

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Let's do it.
Hello Matt, and welcome to REAL

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Men Feel.
Thank you very much for having

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me on the show.
Matt, for people that don't know

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you yet, how do you usually
describe yourself today?

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I would describe myself as
energetic, fun, outgoing,

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somebody that is willing to go
above and beyond what other men

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may not want to do.
In other words, I make myself

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available 24/7, 365 to my
friends.

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And is are those characteristics
you've always had?

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They have, but I it hasn't.
It's taken me time to get there

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because for a long time I didn't
love myself and so I had to work

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on myself and love myself before
I could help other men.

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No, you've written a book called
Bullied Behind Bars.

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You're energetic, helping, self,
loving and self.

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Did that man exist before your
experience behind bars?

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No, I would say I was angry,
resentful, blamed other people.

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Was that your experience as as a
as a as a man prior to any legal

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issues?
Yes, and I allowed other

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people's bad energy to affect
me.

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And I have learned to not allow
what other people think of me to

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consume me.
What other people think of me is

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none of my business.
Great.

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What was life like and what got
you in behind bars?

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What got you in prison?
I grew up in Tyngsboro, MA.

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I had a best friend that was
behind lived behind me and then

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the the school bully lived next
to our house.

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So that was an interesting
dichotomy.

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However, in 1988, my father got
a job at Franklin County Home

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Health, and he transplanted us
all up into Vermont.

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And that was the biggest mistake
my parents could have made.

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Vermont is a very isolating
state.

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It's very hard to find and make
friends.

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And I've always felt that I was
different.

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I wasn't diagnosed with autism
until I was 35.

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I wrote my book the second time
I went to prison.

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The first time I worked at a car
dealership.

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They didn't pay me my
Commission, so I impulsively

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sold one of their vehicles, got
caught.

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Instead of going through the
mental health court, which I

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should have been allowed to do,
Judge Jeffrey Crawford and Bob

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Wolford both decided I didn't
meet the criteria.

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If I had been allowed to go
through the mental health court,

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I may not have a record today.
We may not even be chatting at

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this point.
However, I came out, had a

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record, couldn't find a job.
In 2009, I used other people's

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information to pass a background
check, got caught.

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The government pursued me for
six years, got a grand jury

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indictment in 2016, I was
indicted for identity theft,

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Went to 10 different
institutions.

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That's where I started writing
my story and I was putting a

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target on my back.
So.

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Because you don't talk about
other inmates, you don't talk

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about guards.
You do your own time.

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You, you keep your head down.
The guards and the, and the

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inmates, a lot of time would
gang up against me and I wanted

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to hold them accountable.
I was held accountable through

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the criminal justice system and
it's time for these folks to be

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held accountable for their
actions.

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So while in prison, other
inmates and guards knew you were

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writing about your experiences
there.

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Yes, one of the institutions I
was at in Dover, NH, they, the

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guards, actually confiscated my
journal entries.

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And when I confronted them about
it, they told me they disappear,

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they don't know where they are.
Of course they knew what that

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was going on.
So in, in Hinds it sounds like

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you use the experience and you
you, you got a lot of growth out

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of it.
I would not be the faithful man

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I am today without going to
prison.

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I was for most of my life up
until August 2015 when I had a

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near death experience driving on
495 where I was almost killed by

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an out of control driver.
That was the moment I stopped

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lying, being dishonest and
started living a more godly

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lifestyle and put God first and
allow God to take my life and

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take charge.
So while while in prison, were

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were you being bullied because
of of your writing, of your

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plans, what you're.
Going to do because I was also

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gay, I wasn't using drugs.
I was different and the guards

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knew that I was different, so I
was targeted.

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So I, I have not been in prison.
So I only know from, you know,

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probably bad movies and TV
shows.

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But is is everybody bullied?
People that are different are

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bullied.
So how did you How long were you

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imprisoned?
I was in prison for 16 months

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and then I did about a month and
a half to two months in a

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halfway house.
Every person who goes through is

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goes through the federal
judicial system has to do time

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in a halfway house, and that is
all based on how much the

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sentences.
So the longer the sentence in

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federal prison, the longer the
stint in a federal halfway house

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will be in a in a halfway house.
For those viewers who probably

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have never heard of it, it's
simply a house in a community.

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Mine was in Albany, New New
York.

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It's a house, but you can't
leave.

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So there's cameras in that
entire house.

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It's surrounded by a fence and
everybody in the neighborhood

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knows it's a halfway house and
the only way you can leave is

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out on a pass, and all the
passes have to be approved by

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the director.
The director didn't like me, was

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a difficult individual.
I wasn't going to be there for

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long.
She wouldn't allow me to get a

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job, look for volunteer
opportunities because of the

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short time that I was going to
be there.

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Most of the men that came
through the halfway house, we're

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going to be there for years.
And again, I help them

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accountable.
I wrote grievances and you know,

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you're just supposed to do your
time and keep keep your mouth

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shut.
And I refuse to do that.

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My whole entire life.
I've always held people

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accountable.
So it so it sounds like that

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drive to hold people accountable
like made your experiences there

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tougher.
Like it It would have been an

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easier experience if you had
just shut your mouth and and

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gone about business.
Perhaps I I'm not sure that that

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would have worked though.
So is was the the bullying?

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Was this physical intimidation?
And emotional.

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I was raped at one of the
facilities, MDC Brooklyn, by an

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Aryan Brotherhood member as an
initiation to get into the the

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Cult Brotherhood gang, whatever
you want to call it.

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So did you become a member?
Was I?

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No, no.
A member raped me as an

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initiation to get into the gang.
In order to get in a gang, you

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have to complete a violent act.
What?

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If you can possibly distinguish,
like what, what elements had the

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biggest effect on you?
Was it emotional, spiritual.

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Physical.
All of them, all of them.

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But I spent a lot of time in
solitary confinement and that's

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really where I started
journaling, getting into my

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Bible, praying.
And that's the discipline I have

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today.
I, I find a lot of men have an

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issue getting that discipline.
I was able to hone that

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discipline behind bars, where
there's a lot of less

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distractions than there are in
the outside world.

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So what are some coping
mechanisms that you utilize that

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got you through?
Was it just the the the the the

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Bible and and self reflection or
the word There are the?

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Praying.
Getting into the Word,

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journaling, writing my story,
sharing it with the world.

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And I know not everybody's going
to agree with me.

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Not everybody's going to like
what I have to say, but it's my

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truth and the truth will set you
free.

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There are a lot of people, Andy,
who told me rename the people

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don't identify their, you know,
first and last name because I

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was identifying judges, lawyers,
cops, and I was putting myself

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as a target.
But I don't, I won't back down

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to anyone and I refuse to allow
other people to intimidate me.

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I was never intimidated.
And has have you suffered

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backlash for for releasing for
publishing the book?

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I've received some backlash in
terms of the neighbors.

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The neighbors don't talk to me.
I was followed around a lot by

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the Shelburne police.
When I got out, I was Aaron

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Noble, who was I believe, the
chief instrument to why I was

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targeted so bad in March of
2022, actually got a $200,000

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payout from the town of
Shelburne to just go away.

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So when he laughed, a lot less
targeting happened to me.

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But I still don't trust the
Shelburne police, and that is

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also another reason I wanted to
write my book was to expose the

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corruption in a small state like
Vermont.

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Corruption just doesn't occur in
the major cities like New York

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or Chicago.
They happen right here in

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Vermont.
My case was the only case I've

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ever heard of where I was
prosecuted, and the judge was

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the same in the state and
federal case, Judge Jeffrey

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Crawford.
Crawford, excuse me, was the

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judge in both my state case in
2004 and my federal case in

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2016.
When you were sentenced, how did

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your expectations of what prison
might be like compared to what

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your experience was?
It was far worse than I could

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have ever imagined.
I went to 10 different

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institutions that kept passing
me around because I kept writing

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grievances and holding them
accountable and they didn't know

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what to do with me.
I was a giant pain in the rear

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end as far as they were
concerned and.

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That was that your goal?
My goal was to hold them

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accountable for their actions.
I was a held accountable for my

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actions and it's time for other
people to be held accountable

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for their actions.
And just as I thought, as soon

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as I got out of prison and wrote
to the Bureau of Prisons, they

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told me we don't know who this
guy is.

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None of this happened, even
though I have documentation to

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that says the other the other
way and.

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Particularly what the the rape
happening or something else?

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Was there a particular point
that you realized this is more

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than like a physical survival?
There was, you know, an

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emotional survival, a
psychological survival.

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Absolutely, it was all of them
and I think all of them paid a

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toll on me, but it wasn't until
I started doing men's work in

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February 2022 and release that
anger and hostility I had

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towards the people that had
wronged me.

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What are your heroes?
Louis Zampinelli Zamperini,

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excuse me, has had a much worse
experience.

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He was a soldier in World War 2
and he was beaten by a man named

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the Bird when he was at on one
of the Japanese controlled

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islands.
And he tried to forgive the Bird

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many years later, but the bird
would not take his wouldn't meet

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with him.
And this is a man that had made

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a vow to God that he was going
to as soon as he was on that

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boat.
And he he reached out to God and

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said, God, if you bring me to
land and keep me safe, I'll

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start serving you.
But he had forgotten that and it

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wasn't until he went to a sermon
when his marriage was on the

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brink.
And the man that was pastoring

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Billy Graham, it wasn't until he
started surrendering to God that

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he was able to release that
anger.

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And he, he almost strangled his
wife because he was so angry.

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And until he started serving God
and, and forgiving his captors,

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it wasn't, it wasn't until that
point that he was, he was able

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to sleep soundly and finally
have a, a marriage that wasn't

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based on anger and hostility
towards his captors.

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And I don't believe that if he
had gone to he had not gone to

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see Billy Graham, that he would
have been, had the ability to

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forgive his captors.
And we have to, we have to

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forgive our captors.
Forgiveness is not the same as

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forgetting, but for for when we
don't forgive another person,

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they are living rent free in our
head.

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Can you hold people accountable
and forgive them?

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Yes, absolutely.
OK.

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Is is that perhaps one of the
biggest lessons you you got out

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00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,560
of this whole experience?
Absolutely yes, and if it wasn't

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for my men's work that I started
doing in 2022, I don't think I'd

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be the man I am today.
So you've been physically free

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for a while, but I believe I've
heard you say that you talked

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about still feeling imprisoned
somehow.

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It's hard for me to meet people
that are willing to be

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vulnerable and open up and
release what's going on with

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00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,160
them.
I feel like a lot of men use

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sports weather as a safe
mechanism and I want to get to

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00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,560
know my friends on a deep,
intimate level where they can

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feel like they can open up and
talk to me about anything.

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00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,680
Now, is this something that
you've discovered you liked

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doing men's work or was it prior
to that they wanted that?

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It was through doing my own
men's work that I wanted to

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start serving other people.
Because until you've been

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through the fire, until you've
experienced a lot of heartache,

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you can't help another person.
And it all starts with being

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able to forgive other people and
loving yourself.

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If you don't love yourself, you
can't love another person.

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You can't help anybody.
So all your experience, so it's

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not that you've been in lots of
different men's groups and

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organizations, I have.
And what the common theme is

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that a lot of guys use sports
weather as a distraction.

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00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:20,560
It's a lot safer to talk about
sports and weather than it is to

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00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,839
go deep and talk about those six
emotions.

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00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:31,080
How do you go about day-to-day
inviting people into deeper

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conversations more, not just
dealing with surface level

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stuff?
It's challenging.

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Some guys are able to do it and
other guys aren't able to do it,

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00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,080
but I try to lay out what I'm
looking for in a friendship and

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if that person is not there with
me, I just move on because I

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00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,560
don't.
That's what works for me and I

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realize, you know, I'm not for
everyone.

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00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,440
There's a song by Brothers
Osborne called Not for Everyone,

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00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,360
and that's fine.
We all come to the world a

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00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,440
little bit differently.
Some guys, that's all they want

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00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,280
to have is a surface level
relationship.

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00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,960
And do you find that men that
seek out men's work and men's

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00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,840
groups and organizations that
are those guys willing to go

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00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,720
below the surface or even or
even many of those guys just

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00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:21,760
staying at that, that surface
level conversation?

280
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,880
Some are and some aren't.
It's always easier to look at

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00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,080
somebody else's faults than it
is to look at our own faults.

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What I find in even staffing a
lot of men's weekends is that a

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00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,240
lot of the guys should actually
be participating because a lot

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of the guys, they show up at a
weekend and then they go right

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00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,800
back to the same person they
are.

286
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,160
Oh, so so people just kind of
put on an act like they're doing

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00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,520
the work, OK.
A lot of people wear masks,

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00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,680
Andy.
It's a it's a safe mechanism.

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00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,720
There's no risk or hurt that
will happen.

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00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,160
Have there been particular
spaces or groups where you

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00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,200
really felt like, OK, I belong
here?

292
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,440
No.
Do you think there's a lot of

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00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,720
challenges?
A lot of men's groups are guys

294
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,240
that are married and have kids,
and so there's always that

295
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,400
element that I won't fit in
because what I bring to the

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00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,480
world is different than what
other guys have.

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00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,960
So my journey right now is to
start a single man's group.

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00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,720
Hopefully.
My dream has always been in

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00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,480
Alaska.
Alaska actually has a very high

300
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,680
suicide rate among the
Aborigines.

301
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,880
Men are five times more likely
to commit suicide than on the

302
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,360
lower 48.
And it's because of that it's

303
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,200
dark.
It's dark a lot, lot of a lot of

304
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,640
times during the year.
And so a lot of guys use

305
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:58,560
alcohol, and even among the dry
communities in Alaska, it's

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00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,760
very, very challenging.
So you talked about learning to

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00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:08,080
love yourself.
Were there specific techniques

308
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,000
or strategies that really made
it concrete for you?

309
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,920
Staying I love you in the mirror
10 times.

310
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,720
Telling myself I'm no longer
going to surround myself with

311
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,240
negative people.
Being upfront with all my

312
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,280
friends that I have autism and
I'm on the Asperger's spectrum.

313
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,480
Laying out what I'm looking for
in a friendship early on.

314
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,560
How has your relationship with
yourself changed?

315
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,240
I no longer allow other people's
negativity to affect me.

316
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:51,400
I no longer allow people that
are negative in my space because

317
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,520
we are who we surround ourselves
to be.

318
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,360
So if I surround myself with
negative people, I will turn

319
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,320
negative.
If I surround myself with

320
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,040
positive people, I will be
positive.

321
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,400
And we all have a choice.
Every day I, I wake up, I have a

322
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,840
choice.
I can either be very negative, I

323
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,400
can, I can be very positive or I
can be somewhere in the middle.

324
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,760
I also try to surround myself
with people who don't use curse

325
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,800
words, and that's very, very
challenging because people that

326
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,320
use curse words, in my opinion,
lack better language.

327
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,120
There's always a better way to
say something than using a curse

328
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,040
word.
And to me, when you're having a

329
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,880
conversation, I want to envision
that you have your grandmother

330
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,640
is in the room.
How would she feel about hearing

331
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,760
that word?
So you but your your desire to

332
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,760
create a singles men's groups in
some place where it's really

333
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:52,680
challenging, such as Alaska, but
with with the sober men and with

334
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,440
people with men that aren't
cursing.

335
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,720
They have to be sober.
You can't help somebody that's

336
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,720
under the influence of any drug,
whether it's marijuana.

337
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:10,560
And to me, the levels of the
states to decriminalize

338
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,280
marijuana use is is terrible
because marijuana is a gateway

339
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,000
drug to other drugs.
And whether you agree with it or

340
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:24,160
whether you agree with me or
not, and being under the

341
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,680
influence of marijuana causes
somebody's depth perception to

342
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,920
be in pair.
So if they're driving on the

343
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,600
road, they're going to think
that my, if I'm driving right

344
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,960
up, if I'm driving along the
road, they're going to think

345
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,160
that I'm farther away than I
really AM.

346
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,960
And I'm going to, that's going
to cause me to slam on my brake

347
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,400
and hopefully I'm not
distracted.

348
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,520
That's going to cause them to
get short tempered with me when

349
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,040
I just ask them a simple
question.

350
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,120
So everything that we put in our
body hasn't has a side effect.

351
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,320
I don't care what it is, whether
it's a medication, whether it's

352
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,280
a drug, whether it's alcohol,
anything that we put in our body

353
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,800
has an effect.
There is no such thing as

354
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,320
putting a drug in our body that
has no no effect.

355
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:20,640
If the version of you your past
self in your first couple weeks

356
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:27,400
of being behind bars could see
you today, what do you think

357
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,000
would surprise that version of
you the most?

358
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,920
And he's been able to release
that anger, hatred, hostility

359
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,000
towards all the people who had
done it wrong.

360
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,440
And are there any emotions that
you still have challenges

361
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,440
expressing or acknowledging with
with yourself?

362
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:56,160
Sadness would be #1 I think a
lot of men are taught to stuff

363
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:03,120
emotions, to bury them and being
surrounded by a family full of

364
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:07,520
stoics, we are taught to hot to
hide, repress and deny that

365
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:13,920
sadness that men don't get sad.
So you are truly raised to

366
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,960
believe that that sadness was
wrong and you didn't if if you

367
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,200
felt it, it was not something to
be shared.

368
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,400
Right.
And men don't cry.

369
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:28,440
Suck it up, buttercup.
So what do you tell men today?

370
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,760
That every emotion is is OK to
feel.

371
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,720
Men that cry are actually
healthier.

372
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,400
How do you make meaning out of
your prison experience without

373
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,280
letting it be the the one thing
that defines you?

374
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:54,360
By not allowing my past to, in
fact, who I am today, that we

375
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:58,080
all have gone through some
amount of trauma that I can

376
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,000
relate to anybody's trauma.
But I think through my past.

377
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,800
I'm a much better listener.
We have two ears and one mouth

378
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,560
for a reason.
I listen a lot more than I talk,

379
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,800
and I can talk till you're blue
in the face, but I can't help

380
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,720
another person if I'm not
allowing that person to talk.

381
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:23,760
And then I ask questions to
probe, to get really to the

382
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,240
bottom of things because a lot
of people, you really need to

383
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,840
have a thick knife to get to the
bottom of the fat because a lot

384
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,240
of people are going to give you
surface level problems.

385
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,000
But it's my job to get to the
root of the problem.

386
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,440
So you mentioned that you shared
that sadness was still a

387
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,200
challenge to to deal with.
I wonder, are there any beliefs

388
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,720
that you still have about
yourself that you're working to

389
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,560
unlearn?
Absolutely.

390
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:57,040
I'm not good enough.
I'm not worthy just thinking

391
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,600
about starting a community.
I'm not proficient enough in the

392
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,120
Bible to start a men's ministry
in Alaska, but when will I bet?

393
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,040
When will I get there?
What will be the point?

394
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,920
Who's going to tell me that I I
have?

395
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:14,840
I'm ready.
The only person who's going to

396
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,360
be able to tell me that is me.
So Are you ready?

397
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,240
Oh, I'm ready.
So do you actually have plans

398
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,840
like how I.
Don't have plans.

399
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,080
I'm still it's still in the
works, but it's something I've

400
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,960
always wanted to do.
If you meet a man or there's a

401
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,280
man listening today that you
know, feel stuck, feels, feels

402
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,480
imprisoned by circumstances,
what's one small step you would

403
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,240
recommend to to get more in
touch with themselves and to

404
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,440
make positive changes?
The first step is loving

405
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,040
yourself.
If you can't love yourself, then

406
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,400
nobody.
You can't love another person

407
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:02,200
reaching out, talking about it.
We as men are taught to isolate

408
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,400
and that is the worst thing you
can do.

409
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:11,560
Don't disguise emotions by
outside distractions.

410
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,280
In other words, gaming,
football, whatever that

411
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,560
distraction is, get in a group
of guys that are if you're a

412
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,920
guy, a guy.
If you're women, you're women.

413
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:25,720
But you can't rely on your
spouse to be your only support

414
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,760
mechanism.
When you have if you have

415
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,160
periods of of doubt and
darkness, what gives you hope?

416
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,400
Jesus's word, being in my Bible,
praying, talking to other people

417
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,920
who may be experiencing similar
things that I'm experiencing.

418
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,840
So Matt, what's, what's 1 of the
biggest lessons from your book

419
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,280
that people that you hope people
take away from it?

420
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,800
Did not get stuck or frozen
where you are to get out of that

421
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,400
me only space and start helping
and serving others.

422
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,240
And Matt, what's the best way
for people to connect with you,

423
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,120
follow up with you?
Are you are you active on these

424
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,280
specific social media platforms?
I'm on Instagram bullied behind

425
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:20,560
bars X bars bullied Facebook
Matthew dot Melvin .5621 You can

426
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,800
buy my book.
It's available on Amazon.

427
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,200
Bully behind bars dot com is my
website

428
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,920
andyoucanemailmebullybehindbars@gmail.com
I'd love to hear from you.

429
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,560
If you are listening and you
feel like you can't talk to

430
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,440
anybody or you don't have
anybody reach out to me, I'd

431
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,600
love to talk to you.
And Matt, finally, what's one

432
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,400
thing that you wish more men
knew?

433
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:51,680
That our past doesn't doesn't
define who we are and we need to

434
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:57,160
start talking and listening more
and get out of stock frozen

435
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,480
freeze mode.
Well, thanks, Matt.

436
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,240
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing your

437
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,280
experience in your book.
Thanks for your sharing yourself

438
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,160
with all the different men's
groups you're part of.

439
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,760
And I wish you nothing but
success in in following through

440
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,240
on your dreams and desires to
create that that community for

441
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,240
for men that don't feel part of
any other community that's out

442
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,800
there right now.
Thanks so much for having me on

443
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,560
the show.
That story is a powerful

444
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,280
reminder that freedom isn't just
about where you are, it's about

445
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,480
how you relate to yourself.
Even the bars are gone.

446
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,080
The inner prison can linger, and
the way out isn't toughness or

447
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,160
silence.
It's honesty, connection, and

448
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,360
being willing to be seen.
If this conversation resonated

449
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,680
with you, I invite you to join
Authentic AF, my free men's

450
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,240
community where guys are
dropping the masks, having real

451
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,760
conversations, and realizing
they are not alone.

452
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,840
You can join us at Realmenfeel
Org Group and until next time,

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be good to yourself.