From Pulpit to Porn: Faith, Fantasy, and Freedom

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, author, coach,
and healer, Andy Grant.

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You can visit theandygrant.com
to learn more about how I might

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help you.
Real Men Feel reminds men that

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they're human beings and have
the right to experience and

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express all of their emotions.
We have conversations that most

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men are not having, but that all
men can benefit from.

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My guest today is Doc Chocolate.
Doc is a former Pastor Torn porn

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star who is now a coach, content
creator, and educator in the

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adult industry.
He's also the host of the Bulls

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and Queens Show, an AVN
nominated swinger lifestyle

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podcast.
Doc shares his journey from

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pastor to porn star and the
challenge in reconciling what he

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does with his faith.
We explore the world of

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alternative lifestyles,
overcoming stigma and

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performance anxiety.
Doc also.

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Opens up about his experiences
with depression and tells us one

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thing he wishes more men knew.
Let's do it.

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Hello Doc, and welcome to Real
Men Feel.

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Thank you.
Thank you, Andy.

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Thank you for having me.
I've got.

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To start with your journey from
being a pastor to going into the

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adult film industry.
And so how did that unfold?

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Oh man, isn't that the typical
journey that a person and the

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best part of the church goes
through, right?

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You know you, your pastor, maybe
a Deacon and then you know your

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passes by after you take a bunch
of offerings and your butt ass

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naked, right?
Yeah, not any church I've ever

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been to.
Yeah, but I mean, no, it, it was

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a crazy journey, Andy.
So I'm currently 44 years old

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and for most of my 20s, myself
and my ex-wife, we were part of

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the pastorship at our church
that we went to.

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And I would say in our early 30s
we started to transition out of

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the church and a few years after
that we got into the swinging

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lifestyle.
And they had.

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A few years after that I found
myself in porn.

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Did it really just unfold like
that easily the next opportunity

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or, you know, adventure was just
there for you?

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Yeah, man.
I mean, it unfolded as ladies

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unfolded their legs around me.
During this journey, there must

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have been some personal
challenges from either your

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inner self or people around you
that that you had to face.

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Yeah, yeah.
I think it's, you know, like in

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most aspects of life, Andy, we
all have our personal challenges

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and our fights and inner
turmoil.

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And mine was trying to reconcile
my personal faith, belief in God

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with what I do right?
And trying to say, OK, it's what

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I do horrible.
Is that, you know, is it wicked?

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So that was my biggest challenge
that I had to overcome.

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And and how did you, how did you
reconcile that?

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Well, I basically reconciled it
by coming to the conclusion that

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in life we only have one life to
live, and so we personally need

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to live it to our fullest.
And no matter what you believe

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in or don't believe in, really
can any of us say what's is

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going to happen after this life
that we're living here on earth?

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You know, nobody really can say
that, you know, whether 1 is a

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Christian, whether one is
Jewish, Muslim, atheist,

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agnostic, whatever.
You, none of us can really 100%

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with 100% certainty say, hey,
this is what's gonna happen.

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So I personally believe, Andy,
that as long as we live a life

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that is based and rooted in
love, the foundation of love,

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then that's the true aspect of
human life.

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So Speaking of love, as a male
working in porn, can you do you

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still have meaningful personal
relationships?

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Like do you have intimate
relationships or is everything

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just a job?
Great question.

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So it's a thing where when you
look at sex as a whole, sex as a

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whole, it's, I don't believe
that it's just one sided, right?

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So yeah, you can have sex where
it's just a physical part of it

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and you're just having fun.
But then you can also have sex

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where you're making love, you're
having passion, and it's a way

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that you can connect yourself to
your partner sexually,

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physically, emotionally,
mentally, spiritually, all of

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that.
You know, it's kind of like, I

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would say like a basketball
player, right?

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So like, let's say you got
Michael Jordan, you know,

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playing in the NBA or hell,
hell, let's say LeBron James,

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right?
And so, yeah, he pays and gets

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million, paid millions of
dollars to play basketball.

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But I'm pretty sure, you know,
on his downtime, you'll go out

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there, play a couple games with
a son out there on the

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playground, right?
And that's just for fun.

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Was that a good analogy?
Sure.

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Is it sure you're like, OK, no,
whatever.

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There's no, there's no wrong
answers on real men feel it's,

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it's as long as it's your
answer, man.

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So with that said, the the
people that you choose to be

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intimate with, the people that
are close to you in real life,

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they've got to be open like
they, they can't be the jealous

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type, right?
They can't be possessive.

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Correct, correct, correct.
So it is so is has that been a

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challenge finding finding your I
guess real life partners that

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are that are open and fine with
your your physical exercise?

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So and I'm like hey y'all
shouldn't be trying to talk me

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down just because I'm trying to
be physically fitted exercise

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and all that.
You guys should be like holding

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me up on like a pedestal or
something.

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But all the jokes aside, my my
ex-wife, she was initially the

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one that wanted us to get into
the swinging lifestyle.

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So she couldn't really say
anything to that aspect of it,

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right?
Because it was her pushing it

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along, right?
And once our marriage ended, I

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did have a challenge finding
partners that could coexist with

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that.
And so I basically made the

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conclusion, Andy, that I need
somebody that's a swinger #1 and

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then preferably somebody that's
also in the adult industry.

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Porn star content creator as
well, right?

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And so there was a lady or two
that they were swingers and they

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had issues with what I do.
And now I've been with a very,

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very lovely lady.
My, my girlfriend, her name is

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Fun Charlie and she's also a
content creator and in the adult

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industry.
So because we're both doing the

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same thing, it makes it way
easier for us to to move

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forward.
Now you have a what I see as a

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unique specialty in cuckolding.
Yeah.

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For for people not familiar with
with that entails, could you

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could you explain what that
means?

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Yeah, Yeah.
So there's a lot of different

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forms of lifestyle, Andy.
And lifestyle, it basically

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means, according to our
definition, is any type of

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consensual non monogamy that two
people have, right?

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So basically you're stating that
hey, we can be non monogamous,

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but it's consensual.
Now, cuckolding is a certain

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subset within that where it's
typically going to be a man and

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his wife and only the wife plays
with other people.

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And the cuck, the husband, he
only has sex with his wife, if

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at all, because there's some
cuckolds that they don't have

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sex at all.
You know, they just get teased

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and humiliated and they love the
denial and that's how they get

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off sexually.
I can comprehend a lot of

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fetishes even if I haven't taken
part of them, but this is one

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that I, I, I, I I can't yet so.
It's really the that.

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Being humiliated is part of the
man's enjoyment.

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Yep, sure is.
And does it somehow bring a cup?

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Does it empower the couple
somehow after the fact?

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Or is it just a guy that likes
humiliation?

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Well, I mean, typically when,
when you look at it from like a

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50,000 foot, 60,000 foot
overview, Andy, typically guys

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that are in high profile careers
or like, let's say they're CEOs,

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let's say they're, you know, men
of power in their vanilla

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daytime life, they don't want to
come and have their sexual

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experience be one where they
have to be in control, right?

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They want to be able to yield up
that control and be submissive

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to somebody.
And so when you look at

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cuckolding, that's more of a an
extremer side of submission, and

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that's how they get off, you
know, and, and I've been there

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and done that, you know, before
in my, you know, life, you know,

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I mean, I've never been to a
point where I'm like, Hey, I'm

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going to put my Dick in a cage
and it it get, you know, it's

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totally humiliated.
But, you know, I like to get

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tied up and, you know, beat
around a little bit.

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So you, you went, so you were.
You're you're a swinger and your

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personal private lifestyle and
then start videotaping, start

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making it more professional and
and then like, how did you what,

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what got you into this kind of
sub genre?

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So basically, I mean, yeah, so I
was a swinger and I've always

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been ex exhibitionist in how I
roll Andy.

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And so I was always taking like,
you know, video clips of me

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playing with other guys, wives
and typically that's who I was

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playing with.
I was, and playing means having

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sex.
I was playing with other guys

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wives.
And you know, initially I was

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like, wow, I don't have to
really bring anything to the

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table.
I could just play with your

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wife.
And you know, there's no

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reciprocation.
And you know, guys are like,

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yeah, I just want to see you
fuck my wife.

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And I was like, OK, done deal,
right.

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And so I have my own podcast.
It's called the Bulls and Queens

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Show.
And we talk about lifestyle

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things and the nature of it and
all that.

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And I would interview people
that were making a crap ton of

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money on only fans and other
platforms.

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And you know, as I'm talking to
them, I'm thinking in my head,

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Andy, Well, man, they're,
they're over here making 10,

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fifteen, $20,000 a month and
they're selling videos.

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And I've been taking videos for
free like the past five years.

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I was like, I, I, I think I need
to jump on this train.

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And so that's how I started
doing it because a lot of

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people, they made a lot of
money, especially starting off

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during the the pandemic.
Do you have any advice for

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someone you know a man trying to
get over the stigma of interest

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in alternative lifestyles?
Yeah, yeah.

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My thing with it is overcoming
the stigma is you just have to

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come to the realization that
people are going to judge you no

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matter what, number one.
And then additionally #2 is

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nobody gives a damn about you.
Let's just be real.

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The people that are judging you,
they don't care about you if you

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wound up dead on the side of the
street or whatever, they don't

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care about you.
And those are the people that

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are judging you.
And those are the people that we

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kill ourselves trying to seek
approval from and all that.

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You know, it's, you know, to
hell with them in my opinion.

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You know, just live your life.
You know, if you want to be a

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cuck, go do it.
If you want to wear like skirts

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and dresses and whatever, If you
want to go do whatever, as long

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as you're not calling it causing
harm to other people, my feeling

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is go do you.
Yeah, yeah, when I was really

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younger and and and battling
like, what does everyone think

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about me?
And oh, no, I better not do

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this, that whatever it is.
Then I realized, you know, most

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people are so focused on beating
themselves up, they're judging

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themselves.
They they did.

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They aren't really judging us as
much as we assume they are.

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Correct, correct.
And, and what I've seen Andy in

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life is that the people that are
winning in life and the people

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that are like at the highest
apex of whatever feel that

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they're in, they're not judging,
you know, they're living their

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life.
You know, the only people that

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are judging you are trolls or
people that are trying to judge

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you because they want to make
themselves feel good, you know,

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So like, who am I to?
Oh, some loser wants to judge

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me?
I don't care.

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You know, the winners up there,
they're not judging me, you

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know, and I and I think that
does come with age, Andy, you

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know, you and me both where, you
know, we, we got a few years on

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us, you know, we got a couple
Grays in our beards and what

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not, right?
Bald heads, right.

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So we, we know, hey, we're not
going to keep on living our life

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seeking approval of people that
don't really matter.

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Yeah.
So besides your own willingness

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to to do the the uncharted path
by the by the masses and your

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00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,000
ability to reconcile that with
with your faith in God, how have

224
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,400
you seen society's attitudes
towards all the alternative

225
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,240
lifestyles that you play in
change?

226
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,280
Or has it changed over the past
few years?

227
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,400
Yeah, yeah.
I think as time progresses, I

228
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:45,000
believe we are getting a bit
more liberal in our beliefs and

229
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,800
what we accept.
Obviously we have a new

230
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,640
administration coming in that's
not liberal and that's OK, you

231
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,240
know, it is what it is.
But I see slowly as time does

232
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,840
progress, we're becoming more
accepting a people that are

233
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:07,200
outside of that, that vanilla,
you know, vein of life, right?

234
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,320
And so things that used to be
taboo are becoming a little bit

235
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,640
less taboo, you know, because
people are coming to the

236
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,000
realization that, hey, we don't
all need to to walk the same

237
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,280
walk, right?
You know, we don't all need to

238
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,360
drive black Ford Model T, You
know, we can drive whatever we

239
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,800
want to drive.
Have you always been so

240
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,760
comfortable in your own skin?
You really have a a confidence

241
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,120
and that you said you're
exhibitionist.

242
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:35,240
Has that always been your
nature?

243
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:42,280
I would say to a higher or
lesser degree, Andy, it has been

244
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,600
obviously I will say when I was
young, maybe junior high, I did

245
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,440
go through a spell where I
lacked, I lacked a lot of

246
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,040
confidence.
But I got into high school,

247
00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:00,120
started lifting weights, was in
sports, and that started giving

248
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,320
me more confidence in life
overall.

249
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,240
You know, I have dealt with
depression pretty heavily over

250
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,200
the past few years.
And I know that's something that

251
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,320
real men feel.
You guys delve in that the

252
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,320
mental health aspect of it.
But you know, it's, it's a

253
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,400
journey, you know, it's a
journey for all of us.

254
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:26,160
So was your periods of
depression during the your adult

255
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,120
period, during the cuckolding
period before it?

256
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,840
Or did did I mean just does what
you were doing have anything to

257
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,520
do with how you were feeling?
It was more life circumstances,

258
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,520
right?
So it wasn't directly correlated

259
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,040
to adults.
But yeah, I've been dealing with

260
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,760
it pretty much all my adult
life.

261
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:50,840
And then I got diagnosed and I
think I'm bipolar one or

262
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:56,840
whatever it's called, but I've
been medicated for about 8

263
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,520
years, I want to say.
And things started to get a

264
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,960
little bit more extreme, you
know, in my mental toll, because

265
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,600
I had a business that was very
high stress and that business

266
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,160
went bankrupt.
I almost lost my damn mind.

267
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,400
And then during that time
period, my father died.

268
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,960
And then it's, it's, it's rough
when you know, one parent dies,

269
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,840
but when both parents are gone,
you know, you almost feel like

270
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,440
an, an orphan.
And so that, well, you.

271
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,600
Technically, I believe you are.
Yeah, yeah.

272
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,560
Yeah.
You are, you are right.

273
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,760
And that took a big toll on me.
And then my marriage was ending

274
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,760
and that took a big toll on me
as well.

275
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,840
And so when your money is funny
and your family is breaking down

276
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,960
and you know, pretty much all
the important pillars in your

277
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,800
life are crashing down, a lot of
times you, you, you got to have

278
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,720
a come to Jesus talk with
yourself, you know, and I think

279
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,920
a lot of guys go through that in
life.

280
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,560
And unfortunately, some guys
aren't able to, to make it, you

281
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,440
know, I call them casualties.
You know, a lot of men are

282
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,760
hesitant to take any sort of
mental health pharmaceuticals

283
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,760
because they're, many of them
have side effects sexually And

284
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,400
I'm, well, I shouldn't assume
anything has has that been an

285
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,040
issue for you?
You know, it's funny because my

286
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,400
girlfriend, she, she asked me
about that because I was taking

287
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,080
Zoloft and you know, I didn't
know they gave people Ed.

288
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,560
Generally it didn't really have
any issue for me, but I did

289
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:45,720
switch to Wellbutrin and I think
I'm seeing a bit more of a

290
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,400
positive effect.
But I, I've always been pretty

291
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,000
healthy.
So I've always, you know, drank

292
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,840
a lot of water, watched my diet,
you know, higher protein and

293
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,000
exercise a lot.
And I take horny goat weed

294
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,640
everyday.
So that's probably my secrets.

295
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,640
And, and you know, that in
conjunction with everything else

296
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,240
I do, I think that probably
mitigated the negative effects

297
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,760
of Zoloft.
So right now you your full time

298
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,480
job is porn.
Oh yeah, yeah, any butt ass

299
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,040
naked on camera.
Is there a particular aspect of

300
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,560
it that you that you like the
most?

301
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,680
Like content creation, the solo,
with your girlfriend, with other

302
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:28,640
people?
Like what?

303
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:34,760
What still get you going?
So I I like the hot wifing

304
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,040
aspect of porn.
Basically me with other guys

305
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:44,320
wives and I also like when I
have multiple ladies in on a

306
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:50,200
scene.
So if I have two 3-4, I think my

307
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:55,840
Max has been five at one time
and you know that yeah that just

308
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,680
gets me off.
And matter of fact, my, my

309
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,560
girlfriend Charlie and I, we had
lady that was another creator.

310
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,680
She was visiting us in Vegas
from Denver and we had a weekend

311
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,120
together, made some good content
and, you know, had a blast with

312
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,480
time.
So that's always a fun time for

313
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,080
me.
One of the things you do is that

314
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,200
that husbands hire you and fly
you out to wherever they are

315
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,200
with this couple.
And so the, the, the, the having

316
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,560
sex with with wives isn't just
like people you meet at the

317
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,000
supermarket, like people seek
you out and hire you for this.

318
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,840
Yeah, hey, they're like clean up
in IO 3.

319
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,120
She squirted.
Yeah, yeah, there's yeah,

320
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:42,720
there's husbands that will fly
me out and they have a fantasy

321
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,560
and I basically, you know, my
thing, Andy, is I want to make

322
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:54,040
their fantasy their reality.
And so yeah, fly me out and

323
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,960
we'll have some fun.
If, if you could talk to your

324
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,560
younger pastor self any advice
in hindsight that you would give

325
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,200
to to to make the path the
transformation easier or to do

326
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,000
something else entirely, what
what would you say?

327
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,400
Start taking Rogaine at an early
age so you retain your hairline.

328
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:25,360
No, if he's serious I would say
enjoy the journey and don't take

329
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,160
yourself too seriously.
That will be my biggest key

330
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,400
piece of advice.
You make it sound, and I think

331
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,440
the fantasy for most guys is
that being a, being a male porn

332
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,480
star is just like almost, you
know, a different element of

333
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,520
like being a rock star.
And then the role is your oyster

334
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,400
and all, you know, you're 5
women with you all the time and

335
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,480
all this stuff.
What's the downside of this

336
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,400
lifestyle?
So the downside of the lifestyle

337
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,160
is a lot of guys do have a
fantasy about, oh, I want to be

338
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,880
a porn star.
And you know, you're begging all

339
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,200
banging all these hot chicks,
right?

340
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,120
But The thing is, there is
performance anxiety, right?

341
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,400
So anytime you have cameras on
and whatnot, you know, you're

342
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,800
thinking in your head, hey, I
got to, you know, have the right

343
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,120
angles.
I got to do this and that, you

344
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,240
know, they're expecting XYZ,
they're expecting me.

345
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,600
So plow the hell of wifey or
whomever.

346
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,720
And so you have to deal with
that.

347
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,960
So it's not all like, you know,
sugar and kisses and all that

348
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:35,840
with porn.
I would say also that, you know,

349
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:39,200
you do have to be safe, right?
So like a lot of people don't

350
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,320
think about the, the health
aspect of it.

351
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,960
So when you're in the adult
industry, you're doing porn,

352
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,480
you're typically getting tested
every 7 to 14 days.

353
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,680
So you're getting a full panel
test.

354
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,440
So you're getting tested for
HIV, hepatitis, syphilis,

355
00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,840
gonorrhea, chlamydia, Amgen and
trichinomas.

356
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,200
And then you're also getting
swabs, anal and oral.

357
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,680
And you know, you got, you got
to make sure you're clean,

358
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,880
right?
And, you know, last year I took

359
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,120
about maybe 20 to 25 tests, I
want to say, throughout the

360
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:17,760
year.
And so, yeah, that's always a

361
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,760
tough time, you know, getting
stabbed and, you know, prodded

362
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,520
and all that.
And I, I get to imagine beyond

363
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,360
traditional performance anxiety,
that as a porn star, that, you

364
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:34,240
know, a Midwest run-of-the-mill
couple hiring you like they,

365
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,600
it's, it's almost like
perfection anxiety, like 'cause

366
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,600
they, you know, you are the, the
visiting rock God coming to

367
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,200
town, right?
Yeah, Yeah.

368
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,480
Well, it, it, it, it was funny,
Andy, is that's actually easier

369
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,280
for me to, to do just because
these women, they're typically

370
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,640
not, you know, performers, you
know, so like if I'm doing a

371
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,000
porn scene, you know, I may pick
up a wife.

372
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,320
I may be, you know, standing up,
I may have her up on my

373
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,440
shoulders and, you know, I may
be tossing her around and all

374
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,760
that.
But if I'm with somebody that's

375
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,440
just been having, you know,
regular missionary sex, you

376
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,360
know, for the past 2025 years,
that's, that's an easy job for

377
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,080
me.
Gotcha.

378
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,840
All right.
So the it's the more stressful

379
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,000
is kind of the professional set
environment and you're both

380
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,000
performers and.
Yeah, yeah, 100%.

381
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,880
I, I, I think you call, you said
you're a coach as well.

382
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,880
Is that right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

383
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,840
How, How does that show up?
Coaching.

384
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,800
Coaching people for what?
So there's a lot of people that

385
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,760
that are in the adult space that
do want to be coached on how to

386
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,800
create this as a business.
Because the issue that a lot of

387
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,600
people have when they want to do
porn only fans or whatever is

388
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,480
they don't know anything about
branding, marketing, the sales

389
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,760
side of it and all of that.
And so that's something that I

390
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,960
do coach people on as well.
There's some guys that will come

391
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,520
to me and they want to know how
to perform better with their

392
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,120
wives.
And so I'll coach them on that

393
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:18,280
as well.
I want to ask, has has being a

394
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:26,240
cock ever appealed to you?
I think Andy, that's it's almost

395
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,120
like saying that somebody's
totally liberal or totally

396
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:33,720
conservative, right.
You know, at the end of the day,

397
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,400
you know, not too many of us are
extreme right.

398
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,720
You know, a lot of us are
moderates, right?

399
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,280
And so I'd say I'm more
moderate, but I learn more

400
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,640
towards the hey, I wanna bang
your wife side of things, right?

401
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,040
But there are, there is a part
of me that does like just

402
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,360
watching, right?
So I, there's a side of me,

403
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,000
Andy, that just loves watching
my partner just get totally

404
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,160
railed by a dude or, you know,
just love seeing her with

405
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,720
another woman as well.
You know, well, I think all of

406
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,240
us guys would love to see her
woman with another woman.

407
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,280
But but yeah, yeah, there's a
side of me that does like that.

408
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,360
Now, would I ever put my Dick in
a cage?

409
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,760
Yeah, that's probably not going
to happen.

410
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,800
But yeah, apart from that, yeah.
Need a, you'd need a strong cage

411
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:24,440
if you're ever going to go
there.

412
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,480
Is that the issue?
They're not making world class

413
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,800
cages for you.
So Doc, you, you, you lead a

414
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,920
very interesting life and you've
had a lot of experience and I, I

415
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,360
really appreciate your openness
about the, the depression and,

416
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:43,360
and things that you faced.
Is there anything that stands

417
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,640
out top of mind that you wish
more men knew?

418
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:52,160
Wish more men knew to get in
touch with their their inner

419
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,320
self, their feelings, you know,
and I know this sounds, you

420
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,880
know, kind of like, oh, you
know, feelings and whatnot.

421
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:02,240
But I feel like a lot of men
want to be super alpha.

422
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,840
And yeah, we all do have alpha
qualities about us.

423
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,680
But again, not being too
extreme, we all do have beta

424
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,920
qualities about us as well.
And we need to embrace both the

425
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,960
alpha side of our self and the
beta side of our self.

426
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,920
And I believe that's how we
become a fuller man.

427
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,880
Cool, gotcha.
Yeah, to accept our totality,

428
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,960
not just see this one aspect and
try to present that 'cause you

429
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,840
know, I, I find the quickest way
to know someone is not an alpha

430
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,200
male is all the guys that go I'm
an alpha male like.

431
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,240
When that's yes, yes, 100%.
I, I literally, I literally Andy

432
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,480
said that the other day.
Yeah, a true alpha male doesn't

433
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,680
need to announce that he's an
alpha male, No.

434
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,600
Excellent.
Usually ask guess what's the

435
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,600
best way for people to like
follow them, connect with them.

436
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,320
So is is there a safe for work
way to follow you connect and

437
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,360
and see what you're up to?
Or is every?

438
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,040
Is is it not?
There is safe work ways of

439
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,040
following me.
If you go to dot

440
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,640
chocolatebbc.com that is a site
and it has all my links on there

441
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,400
and depending on what link you
pick it may be safe for work.

442
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,600
It may not be safe for work.
It just depends on what you

443
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,520
pick.
So there's at least a gateway to

444
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,840
see what you are up to without
someone committing down a path I

445
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,240
guess.
Right, correct.

446
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,840
It's like you remember reading
those Choose Your own adventure

447
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,280
books back in the day when we
were kids.

448
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,120
Andy, hey, you go to my site.
It's choose your own adventure.

449
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,000
You know you may go down a path
that you can't go back down.

450
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,040
Doctor is, is there anything
else that you want to share with

451
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,400
the world here?
Yeah, yeah, I would say, you

452
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,080
know, like I, I just want to
commend you Andy, for what you

453
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,120
do on your podcast, on the Real
Men Feel podcast.

454
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:57,160
And I love what you are doing
for mankind.

455
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,360
And I would say keep on doing
what you're doing.

456
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,880
You know, I love the words
authenticity, vulnerability and

457
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,960
compassion.
So those are like 3 good tags

458
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,520
that all of us men need to
follow and just keep living your

459
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,720
life, guys.
Find support in each other.

460
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,680
Don't be or try to think that
you're a lone wolf and you're at

461
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,120
this by yourself.
There's a brotherhood that you

462
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:28,440
can connect to and so use it.
And then also make sure that you

463
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,560
give your skills and your effort
and your resources to help other

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00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,960
brothers.
Yeah, I really appreciate and

465
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,760
I'm kind of surprised that in
the adult industry that

466
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,840
authenticity, vulnerability,
compassion are connecting.

467
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,120
And I didn't, you know, I didn't
really think of it, but that

468
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,960
you, you know, I love talking to
men that are being of service

469
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,760
and you're being of service in a
very different manner than

470
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:53,480
usual.
But.

471
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,440
You're being of service.
So again, Doc, thanks for

472
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,120
joining us today.
Everyone listening.

473
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,920
Thanks for joining us.
Wherever you're catching us,

474
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,200
please visit realmenfield.org.
There will be a blog post in

475
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,000
this episode.
We'll have safe links to track

476
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,480
dock down and see what he's up
to.

477
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,240
Wherever you're discovering real
men feel, please subscribe,

478
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,000
like, follow, share this episode
with somebody, post a review or

479
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,680
comment.
And if you are not clear on

480
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,360
where you want to go this year,
I invite you to have a clarity

481
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,280
call with me.
We'll find out what your goals

482
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,880
are and what's in the way of
making them happen.

483
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,760
Visit theandygrant.com/talk.
And until next time, be good to

484
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:28,120
yourself.