Highly Sensitive Men with Rick Belden

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Now let's dive into this week's

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show.
Hello and welcome to another

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edition of real men.
Feel this is Andy Grant your

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host with The Feelers.
I don't know what that means,

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but I know tonight's one of
those, I really like shows.

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When we have a guest return
because that really means like

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that we really enjoyed them.
Or could mean like I'm scraping

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the bottom of the barrel but it
really means that we really

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enjoy them in the coming back,
Dad add more depth and more

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everything and of course the
person that's that's you know

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usually here mr.
A PO Hunter is here.

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Yes.
Yeah you know it's been it's

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kind of funny because for a
little while some the streak of

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having to miss out either eyes
out of the country or something

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came up and it's good to be back
into a rhythm again.

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Cool.
Ooh, cool.

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And yeah.
So so Rick Belden is joining us

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again.
And Rick has been exploring and

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chronicling the psychology and
inner lives of men for 30 years

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in his work as a poet author,
Artisan coach, and, and podcast

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guest, we should add that right.
This is Rick second appearance

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with us and and Rick, before we
get going, I shared with you

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before the show started, but the
last time you were on which was

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episode 89 done.
On April 10th exploring father,

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wounds and mother wounds.
And I think that set a record

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for the number of guys that
privately messaged me and

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emailed me saying, what a great
episode that was that they had

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gotten tremendous insights and
and they all the most common

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comment was seeing the
differences in Father wounds and

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mother wounds and how we had
permission to go after Dad, but

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Mom was sacred, and that really
is struck a nerve with a lot of

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guys.
Yeah, I believe it and as I was

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telling you, I was actually on a
interviewed on a program in FM

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station in Jamaica Sunday
morning for 20 minutes and we

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were talking about the mother's
womb in that very thing, came up

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the business of how it is
difficult to approach that and

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how it is considered to be
largely taboo especially

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relationship.
As you said the father wound

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where it's just like hey have
Adam, you know, he can take it.

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That's alright we expect it.
It but the mother wound is far

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different in that way in that
people tend not to want to talk

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about it or even hear anybody
talk about it.

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And there was a fair amount of
pushback in on social media that

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the host was seeing during that
conversation Ode to Being

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against having the conversation.
Yeah.

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There were some challenges
around that about we shouldn't

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necessarily be talking about
this.

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Yeah wow.
So this is such resistance to

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looking at their wound that I
want anyone talking about it?

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Yeah I mean it wasn't all that I
mean but they're that was a you

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know, there was a segment of the
listening, the listeners who are

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engaged through social media
during the conversation that

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were kind of waving their hands
and going.

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No no no no, no cool.
Well tonight we want to explore

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is the notion of a highly
sensitive man and I know that

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you would written a blog post a
few years ago now.

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About this subject and I think
was the first time, you know, I

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got to take that bat was going
to say it's really the first

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time I heard that term but I'm
sure it wasn't but it's a term.

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I don't like hearing.
I don't like seeing myself in

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that term so of but I am so I
probably didn't want to

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recognize it or remember it, but
that's what I'm talking about

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and I think the best place to
start is, you know, what do you

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mean by a highly sensitive man?
Yeah, so I'm actually going to

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share some definitions around
that.

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Then we can have a good
foundation to have a

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conversation.
The the broader term is highly

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sensitive person and because I'm
a man, I'm most interested in

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the highly sensitive man subset
of that population.

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And according to the research
has been done by a woman named

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dr.
Elaine Erin, she's a clinical

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psychologist and she did I
believe the pioneering work on

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the subject.
According to her research

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Anywhere between 15 to 20
percent of the general

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population, she would classify
as a highly sensitive person and

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we'll get into what some of the
criteria are for that in a

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moment.
The important fact about that in

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her work.
That struck me that I think is

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really useful to be aware of is
that the breakdown of that 15 to

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20 percent of the general
population that she considers.

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Highly sensitive is 50/50
between men and women.

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I think a lot of people would
Might tend to think that there

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would be a higher percentage of
women who would be classed as

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highly sensitive.
But the research that she's done

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has consistently shown that it's
just about even between men and

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women.
Yeah, that's like so good in

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math.
Yeah.

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Thatthat seems surprising to me
in my stereotypical looking at

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things, so right.
And it was surprising to me as

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well.
And so that's one of the reasons

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that's important is because
given the nature of the culture

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that we live in and the ways
that male behavior and female

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Behavior are sort of defined or
pre defined in terms of what's

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acceptable and what's not, you
know, you're talking about one

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in five men who were kind of
trying to swim up hill as I like

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to say.
You know, given the fact that

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sensitivity and Men is not
really encouraged or valued was

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often actively and aggressively
discouraged.

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And then you look at and one in
five men who are On the higher

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end is sensitivity according to
the criteria that dr.

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Aaron has established and you're
talking about, you know, like

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one in five guys that you know
that might be having some

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problems with this because it
flies in the face of what they

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believe they're supposed to be
like.

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So that was I think that was one
of the themes of the blog post

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that I wrote about to talk
about, which is called I and I'm

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a highly sensitive man.
And it first appeared on the

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good men project about four and
a half years ago, I think.

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And and then it's appeared on
some other sites as well.

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So let me back up a little bit
here and talk about a

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definition.
So there is a there's a

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personality trait, called
sensory processing sensitivity.

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And that is characterized by a
high level of sensitivity to

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external stimuli tends to
correlate with a greater depth

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of cognitive processing and high
emotional reactivity.

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A human with a particularly High
measure of sensory processing.

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Sensitivity is considered to be
a highly sensitive person.

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This terminology has been around
since, about the mid-1990s, as I

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said psychologist, Elaine Aaron
is most famous for her work in

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this, what she did with her
husband.

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And so, again, as I said about
15 to 20 percent of the

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population is thought to process
sensory data, more deeply due to

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the nature of their Central.
Nervous system.

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So that's important.
We're actually talking about

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physiology here.
We're not talking about a choice

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that a person gets to
consciously.

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Make about how much information.
They're going to process how

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much they're going to take in
and How Deeply that they need to

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do it.
So one of the things that were

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that we're talking about here is
capacity and so one of the

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important elements of this that
and I think kind of last thing

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I'm going to read here, is that
dr.

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Aaron has said that sensory
processing, he refers not to the

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sense organs as such, but what
occurs as sensory information is

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transmitted to, or processed in
the brain.

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So, we're actually talking about
internal physiological processes

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here that are innate again, that
are not choices and the Thing to

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she emphasizes a lot is that
this is not, she does not see

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this as a disorder.
It is a trait and it has its

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plus side.
And it's - side it has its pros

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and cons.
And so, you know, we're not

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trying to characterize people.
Here is having some sort of

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defect, not at all.
I don't consider myself to have

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a defect.
I consider myself to have a

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trait that as I said, provides
me with some advantages and

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certain circumstances and some
disadvantages and others.

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And I'm not something that I am
learning to manage over time

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more and more because we don't
really live in a culture just at

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large that tends to favor.
D processors, who maybe take a

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little longer to move through a
situation because they're taking

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in so much information and it's
going in.

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So deep along along so many
different channels.

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Once that there's a lot to do to
make sense of it and formulate

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it and understand it and then
respond in a positive or

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appropriate or effective.
Way.

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Cool.
So it's not that I think, kind

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of the quick reaction to that
term is highly sensitive knees.

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Overly sensitive, but not like,
the way your phrasing is more.

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No, it's a deeper sensation,
feeling more, right?

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Correct.
And we're not just talking

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about, About emotional
sensitivity.

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That's the other important part
of it.

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This is physiological.
So, you know, I noticed with

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myself, for example, if if I go
into like if I go to the massage

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therapist and I go every couple
of weeks, if she has changed

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something in that room, I
noticed that the first time

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almost right away.
A lot of people, I think, might

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take them a few months or might,
they might not register.

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But that's just an example of
the The kind of subtlety that is

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sort of part and parcel of
taking in a lot of information.

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And that's the kind of
sensitive.

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It's really, you know, emotional
sensitivity is part of it for

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can be part of it.
But really, for me, it's about

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the amount of information that
is being taken in.

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It's almost like having an
antenna that, you know, you have

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00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,000
a cheap antenna picks up three
channels, you have a really good

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one, it picks up 50.
Well, you know, That's a lot

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more information for process and
one is not better than the

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other.
That's the other point.

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I like to always try to get up
front is like, I'm not saying

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that a highly sensitive, man.
I'm not saying that the one in

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five men, whose highly sensitive
is better in any way than the

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other for that.
That is not the case.

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It's just a case of different.
And and again, some people are

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going to be, you know, the four
out of five are going to be

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better in some situations, you
know, off the right off the bat.

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The one in five, might take a
little bit longer ramp up and

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00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:04,500
then catch up and they might
actually succeed.

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But this is not a any kind of
Judgment of one being better

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than the other.
I want us to make space for

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everybody, you know.
So that's a conversation for

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00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:17,100
sure.
And you know when you're talking

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about traits, that's something I
absolutely can relate to because

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00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:25,700
know, as recently as the mat I
think was like the 1960s or

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00:13:25,700 --> 00:13:27,800
1970s.
So I mean it's a little while

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00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,100
back.
But the American Psychological

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00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:35,200
Association had characterized
homosexuality as a as a

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disorder, and now it's
recognized as an actual

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00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:41,300
physiological.
Trait.

228
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,200
So, so to see that
classification of that, this

229
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,900
High being highly sensitive, is
it trait as opposed to a

230
00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:56,500
quote-unquote disorder is
extremely heartening to see ya

231
00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:58,500
in a lot of people bristle at
it.

232
00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:01,000
I mean, I've had conversations
with people before saying I

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don't want to be tagged, you
know, I don't believe.

234
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,000
I don't want to be labeled.
The Sounds - and you're right.

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00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,100
There's a lot of history around
that with, with other

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personality traits other A
logical traits and cetera and I

237
00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,200
understand.
But you know, I don't I don't

238
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see it that way.
You know, I see this as a way of

239
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for me it was a revelation when
I first came across it because

240
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,000
it was, you know, this is back
in the day when you go to the

241
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:32,500
bookstore and I was in there and
I was kind of, you know, figure

242
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,000
my way through the bookshelf and
I was looking for something and

243
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,700
I wound up on this book, The
highly sensitive person, how to

244
00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:42,600
thrive when the world
overwhelmed So, I think that's

245
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,800
the full title by dr.
Elaine Aaron, and I picked it up

246
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,500
and I just started to pay
certain us.

247
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:49,900
I was like, well, that's me, you
know, that's me.

248
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:51,900
I've never seen anything like
that before.

249
00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:54,800
I just thought, I thought I was
defective and I thought

250
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,400
something was wrong with me.
And I thought I needed to keep

251
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,800
trying to change it because the
way I was didn't seem to fit.

252
00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:07,300
And so that was an important
moment in my life to see that

253
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:11,200
somebody had actually studied
this and done it in a systematic

254
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,400
way.
Could actually reflect myself

255
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,100
back to me in a way that was
positive and supportive and, and

256
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:24,000
not, not, not judgmental, and
not in a way that was

257
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,100
distressing and made me feel
like I'm just not doing myself

258
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,600
the right way here.
So, growing up you weren't you

259
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,200
weren't embracing your
sensitivity and until he

260
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,400
discovered this, this research,
and, and these terms.

261
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,000
Yeah, I was in my mid 40s.
I think when I finally found

262
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,600
that, Which is about right.
It's like mid to late 90s that

263
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,100
this work started to come out.
So yeah, I you know, I grew up

264
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:55,300
with the same sort of I guess in
Century context that a lot of

265
00:15:55,300 --> 00:16:01,600
boys and then grow up, you know,
be tough be resilient and I'm

266
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,800
not against that, that's all
good, you know.

267
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,100
But I like to see us broaden
that out.

268
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:10,800
So that I'd like to see us
broaden things out so that all

269
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,600
men can Be comfortable with and
embrace and express their

270
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,600
sensitivity, to whatever degree
is right for them.

271
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:24,400
I am not on a campaign to make
all men, highly sensitive.

272
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,100
It's not possible, it's not
physiologically possible and

273
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:33,600
it's not desirable.
But yeah, I mean the kind of and

274
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,600
it was the, you know, I had a
father who was just like very

275
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,400
abusive and a lot of that abuse
was around, you throw like a

276
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,300
girl, you I run like a girl.
You know, those kind of things

277
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:46,800
stop crying or I'll give you
something to cry for.

278
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,000
I'm not doing thing, fat things
fast enough.

279
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,500
So it was, I, I received almost
completely negative

280
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:59,300
reinforcement about my masculine
identity as a child for my

281
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:02,700
father from coaches from other
boys.

282
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:05,700
And from other girls, you know,
not other girls, I'm not a girl.

283
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:10,099
But for this round is what I
need and I can feel like that,

284
00:17:10,099 --> 00:17:11,599
it can feel like you're one of
the girls.

285
00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:17,300
Yeah.
I mean it was like there was

286
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:21,300
really a space for me with the
boys or the girls to be honest

287
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:23,800
with you.
And so I spent a lot of time by

288
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,099
myself and, you know, recess, I
would, you know, go around the

289
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:30,800
corner and sit by myself and
just, you know, imagine things

290
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:36,100
or whatever because I did not,
it was difficult for me to,

291
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:40,000
especially physical activities,
is difficult for me to pick

292
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,900
things up and to move as fast,
And again, I was processing

293
00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:50,300
everything that was going on
around me and it seemed like it

294
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:52,500
seemed like it was not a good
thing, you know.

295
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:55,300
And so I learned more and more
to hide it, especially got in

296
00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:58,700
the teenagers and so forth to
just hide it, more and more and

297
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:00,700
more.
And I became very alienated from

298
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:06,200
myself, which caused problems in
my 20s that I had to begin to

299
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,600
address.
So, you know, there's something

300
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,900
about giving up a primary three
aspect of who you are.

301
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,900
That is extremely extremely
self-destructive.

302
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,100
And unfortunately, we're talking
about this particular topic is

303
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,900
sensitivity and men and
particularly highly sensitive

304
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:27,000
man.
I think a lot of highly

305
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:30,700
sensitive men have experienced
this sort of thing because they

306
00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:34,500
are in a minority, they are not
the typical case.

307
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,100
And there's not a lot of there.
Hasn't been a lot of room for

308
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,200
the, a typical case I guess.
Yeah.

309
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:41,800
It's not something that's
celebrated.

310
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,300
Actually, it was a review of
real men feel that this show

311
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:49,600
last year, someone wrote a
finally, there's a home for

312
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,900
sensitive men.
And when I read that, I recoiled

313
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,700
like, oh, I'd like, I still,
like, it's gonna comes from

314
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:58,000
China, like, I don't like being
called sensitive, but, but, I

315
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,100
know I am and, and it's like, I
can say it, but if someone else

316
00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:03,900
says it about me, it feels like
an insult.

317
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:05,900
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's running.

318
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:11,600
It's often used as an insult.
So I even, I mean, I'll admit

319
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,300
this So on my LinkedIn page
which is for this kind of work,

320
00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:19,800
and it's also for the work, I've
done in Information Technology

321
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,500
because LinkedIn doesn't allow
you to have two separate pages

322
00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:24,700
for different career branches
and stuff like that.

323
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,300
When I list my articles that
I've done you know, in this

324
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:33,400
realm of man and masculine
psychology and so forth I don't

325
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,200
even put I am a highly sensitive
man, I'm a list because I'm

326
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,300
concerned that an IT recruiter
might look at and go oh this

327
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:44,300
guy's trouble, you know.
It's kind of sad.

328
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,700
Yeah, it goes back to the notion
of nice guys finish last and

329
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:49,700
don't be a wuss and, you know,
it don't be a girl.

330
00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:53,700
All those kind of things are,
are wrapped into the, the

331
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,100
negative outlook of sensitivity.
But you mentioned pros and cons.

332
00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:00,100
So what are some of the pros of
being a highly sensitive?

333
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,100
Well, I think one of them is,
you know, if you're looking at,

334
00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:10,000
if you're looking at an
organization being a member of

335
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,800
an organization, what I found
with my Myself is if I start if

336
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,900
I start a job at the same time,
somebody else does and I find

337
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:23,100
for the first, maybe a couple of
months there, just racing ahead

338
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:27,200
of me and it looks like I'm not
doing much and I start to feel

339
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,500
like you know maybe I'm not too
good at this.

340
00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:31,900
Maybe I'm not the right person
but I've learned that what's

341
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:33,600
going on with me is I'm
processing.

342
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,800
A lot of information, really
deeply and I building a really

343
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,200
thorough internal model of
what's going on there and Who

344
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,800
the people are and all that kind
of stuff.

345
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:47,800
And once I've got that in place,
then I start to move pretty

346
00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:53,300
efficiently through work and I
start getting things pulling

347
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,800
things together, pretty rapidly.
And I also find that and I think

348
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,100
this is true as a rule for
highly sensitive people.

349
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:03,000
They tend to be detail-oriented
oriented.

350
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,800
They tend to be thorough and
they tend to get things right

351
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,400
the first time and the outcome
tends to be pretty solid because

352
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,600
they're tenancy is to do all
that all that processing work on

353
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,800
the front end.
Now sometimes that means that it

354
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,200
takes a little longer to get
things together and get them out

355
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:29,300
but week and is highly sensitive
people to prepare well and be

356
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:33,500
ready and not step into
something until we're actually

357
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:36,100
ready to handle it and master
it.

358
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:43,000
And what about emotionally or in
relationships where they, that

359
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,500
emotional, sensitivity Rises up?
Where does that help?

360
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:52,900
Well, for me, it's helpful in
terms of understanding other

361
00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:58,500
people because because and
again, I speak about myself a

362
00:21:58,508 --> 00:22:01,100
lot of the time.
I'm not a clinician and I'm not

363
00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:03,900
a psycho therapy professionals,
I speak about myself and my own

364
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:08,200
experience, and also observation
of others and reading, I think

365
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,000
that in general, highly
sensitive people have a pretty

366
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:17,500
available capacity, whether
they're men or women to Be

367
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:24,300
empathetic and to listen and to
take their time with another

368
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:29,600
person, and actually taking what
the person's saying, and to some

369
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,000
extent, kind of feel their way
through it with them.

370
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:36,000
And so, I think highly sensitive
people can be really great

371
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:42,000
friends and, and really great in
Intimate Relationships, but

372
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:49,400
there is also, I think the Cuz
of the, how can I put this?

373
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,900
Because of the volume of
emotional information that a

374
00:22:52,908 --> 00:22:55,600
highly sensitive person is
dealing with at any given time.

375
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:02,000
It might take them some time to
master that so that they don't

376
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,500
get overwhelmed by somebody
else's emotions and overwhelm is

377
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,600
a big sort of Pitfall for highly
sensitive people.

378
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:16,900
Because again there's we just
naturally taken so much

379
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:21,800
information Nation and
frequently I found myself and I

380
00:23:21,808 --> 00:23:24,000
think this is true for other.
Highly sensitive people.

381
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:28,700
Highly sensitive man included.
It's necessary to step back away

382
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:34,300
from overload and pull back in
your own space, and actually

383
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,200
have some time to process
through things.

384
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,200
So that you actually understand
what you're feeling, what the

385
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,800
other person is feeling how to
put words to it.

386
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,500
And of course, how to put words
to feelings is a challenge in

387
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:51,300
general for men.
As opposed to women tend to have

388
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:56,900
a quicker capacity.
A greater accessibility two

389
00:23:56,900 --> 00:24:00,600
words to put words to feelings.
Some of that is physiological,

390
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:07,200
some of that is cultural.
But one of the I think if if I

391
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,500
were going to advise a woman who
is going to be in a relationship

392
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:12,800
with a highly sensitive man,
it's the it's the say he's going

393
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,600
to need some space and it's not
about you and it's not not about

394
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,400
him being unhappy with you, he's
just likely to reach a point

395
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:27,500
where he can't give you anything
because he's basically his

396
00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:31,400
circuit breakers have started to
go off, because he's getting

397
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,600
overloaded by what's coming in
from the outside and what's

398
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,800
coming from the inside as well
at the same time and it's

399
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,800
overwhelmed not due to weakness
or defectiveness, it's

400
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,800
overwhelmed due to a heightened
ability to Taking more

401
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,700
information, I would say that's
a very good way to put it.

402
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,700
Yeah.
And it's not just an ability,

403
00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:57,800
it's a, it's your nature.
So that's one of the things that

404
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,000
highly sensitive.
People tend to have to learn to

405
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,600
do in a kind of culture that
were in where there, where

406
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,900
everything is very extroverted
and everything is happening.

407
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:10,000
All at once all the time and
we're all supposed to be busy

408
00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:13,300
and we're all supposed to be,
you know, surrounded by an IMAX

409
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:17,300
screen all the time.
You know, is that highly Two

410
00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:23,500
people, highly sensitive men,
have to learn how to buffer the

411
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:26,800
information around them.
Have to make some selections

412
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,700
about what sorts of situations,
they're going to put themselves

413
00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:33,600
in and learn to realize that
certain types of situations are

414
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,700
going to be more overwhelming
than others.

415
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:39,900
So I'm curious about the things
that you mentioned though,

416
00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:42,200
extra-virgin extraversion and so
forth.

417
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:47,100
Are the studies that you looked
at really dive into any game.

418
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,200
Want to any sort of like
granular bubble as far as how

419
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,400
many, what percentage of those
highly sensitive men, identify

420
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,900
as being introverted or
extroverted at all.

421
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:01,400
That is such a great question
and I'm so glad you brought that

422
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,300
up now.
I don't have those numbers for

423
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:07,400
you but the distinction is
important.

424
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,900
In other words, highly sensitive
person does not automatically

425
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:16,300
equate to an introvert.
There are highly sensitive

426
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:19,500
extroverts.
Which sounds a little

427
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:22,200
counterintuitive at first, but
it's really not because we're

428
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,600
talking about two different
personality traits.

429
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:30,900
Now, I think in the main, the
majority of highly sensitive

430
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:33,600
people, a chess pieces are
called are probably going to

431
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:39,200
correlate to introversion as
well, but I have based on the

432
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,300
reading that I've seen in dr.
Aaron makes a makes a point of

433
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:45,800
this to say, this is not the
same as being introverted,

434
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:51,600
right?
Yeah, that that definitely makes

435
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,600
sense because I'm sitting here
processing all this I felt right

436
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,600
now and I'm thinking because at
times I see myself as being

437
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,000
introverted all the time to see
myself as being highly

438
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000
extroverted, it just really
depends on the circumstances.

439
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,300
But there's always that had
processing and processing

440
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:09,000
processing times.
It's almost overwhelming but she

441
00:27:09,008 --> 00:27:10,900
could be extroverted at the same
time.

442
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
Yeah, you know, and the other,
the other thing about this and

443
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,100
I'm not really well-versed in
this but there's another train.

444
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,900
Rate of called HS s HS s, which
is high sensation seeking.

445
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:26,600
So you could be a highly
sensitive person HSP.

446
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,200
And you can also be high
sensation seeking.

447
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:32,100
So, in other words, you're sort
of wired to get over to

448
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:35,500
overwhelm yourself or talk
about.

449
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:39,500
Well, yeah.
I mean, you can literally be a

450
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:42,500
highly sensitive person and high
sensation seeking.

451
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:47,400
So you might be highly sensitive
and also want to ride Roller

452
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,800
coasters?
Which sounds again

453
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:52,600
counterintuitive.
But these are different traits.

454
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:53,600
There you go.
Yeah.

455
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,400
So these are different traits
that can that can co-exist.

456
00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,300
And so it's not just a simple
kind of cookie cutter, you know.

457
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,500
Well if you're highly sensitive
then you want to stay home all

458
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:05,700
the time and you know you never
go rock climbing.

459
00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:08,900
It's like no it's not like that.
She could be a daredevil that's

460
00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:11,100
easily overwhelmed.
Yes.

461
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:12,700
Yes.
Which sounds like a difficult

462
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:13,600
life.
Yeah.

463
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,200
It's like, I'm moving.
I'm moving hell.

464
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,200
It's a great.
Yeah.

465
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:25,900
Yeah, I have, I would say that I
have a bit of high sensation

466
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:29,200
seeking myself.
So, I have some, I have some

467
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,300
experience with that and, you
know, I'm not, I'm not

468
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:36,700
comfortable to stay in what
would be my safe Zone.

469
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,200
I need to get out of it and when
I get out of it, I have to be

470
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,500
aware that I may get overloaded
but overwhelmed And I may have

471
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,700
to pull that sooner than I want
to.

472
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,000
But the awareness of those
trades is what helps you

473
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,700
navigate them.
Well, exactly.

474
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:59,100
When you're not aware, it's
you're just you're just driving

475
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:03,800
blind and worse than that.
I mean, I think you're, you're

476
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,200
not just driving blind, you're
driving in sort of a virtual

477
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,700
reality.
That's not yours.

478
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,000
You know, this been imposed on
you, there's so much, you know,

479
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,600
so much of my life is like, you
know, I shouldn't be like this,

480
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,400
you know, I should be more like
that guy, right?

481
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:23,500
You know, I should be you know
again I got it a lot.

482
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:24,700
It's like, why are you so
sensitive?

483
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:27,100
Don't be so sensitive.
I heard that so many so many

484
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:29,500
times.
Like, that's just not helpful,

485
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,600
you know, it's like water.
Why are you a biped?

486
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,700
Why are you not a quadruped in?
It's like, it doesn't do any

487
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:37,500
good.
I'm not going.

488
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:40,600
I could walk around on my hands
and, you know, I'll force all

489
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,300
day long.
It doesn't make me a pot or bet

490
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:44,300
you know.
It's like you have to be what

491
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:47,100
you are and you have to
understand what you are.

492
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:51,100
So that so that you can actually
have an authentic life and you

493
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:53,800
can have, most of all the most
important thing to have a good

494
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,500
relationship with yourself
that's built from that's that's

495
00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:01,100
founded on self-understanding as
opposed to some kind of

496
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:04,600
externally.
Imposed idea of what you should

497
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,100
be like as a man or what you
should be like as a woman in the

498
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:10,400
people that you come across or
in your own experiences.

499
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,900
Do you see highly sensitive men,
try to lower their sensitivity,

500
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:19,400
or hide it or, you know, push
that trade away somehow?

501
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:21,300
Ow.
Yeah, absolutely.

502
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:24,800
I mean a lot of men who are
highly sensitive kind of

503
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,300
alluding back to what you said
earlier handy.

504
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:30,900
A lot of men who are highly
sensitive would be Horrified to

505
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:36,400
be called that because again,
you know, culturally especially

506
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,600
when it comes to men, you know,
we have this there's sort of an

507
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,800
association there that sensitive
equals week, you know, sensitive

508
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,800
equals fragile and you know I my
one of the statements I made in

509
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,900
the in the blog article that you
talked about before.

510
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:56,300
Was that, you know, I came to
the conclusion that if you're

511
00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:59,900
going to be highly sensitive as
particularly is a man in the

512
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:03,700
sort of culture that we're in,
you have to pre pretty damn

513
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:07,500
strong.
You have to be very strong to be

514
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:10,500
who you are.
And hold, that sense in that

515
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:14,100
identity of who you are, is a
highly sensitive man in the kind

516
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:19,200
of culture that we have.
Just because there is so much

517
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,100
that tells you that you
shouldn't be like that.

518
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,000
Mmm, I love putting it that way
getting and I've shared this

519
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,600
story multiple shows to when I
when I've spoken in front of

520
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,400
military audiences and you know,
the bravest guys in the world

521
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,200
and risking their lives day in
and day out but when it comes to

522
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:40,100
crying in front of their, their
fellow Warriors, that's

523
00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:42,900
horrifying, they can go there
and yeah.

524
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:47,900
So the notion of owning your
sensitivity and being proud to

525
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,500
display it as this sense of
being this Brave courageous,

526
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:52,800
man.
You know, I like that.

527
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:56,900
Well, it's something you have to
do day-to-day, you know, you and

528
00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:58,600
moment-to-moment.
It's like if you're highly

529
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,800
sensitive man you you you get to
or you have to make that

530
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,300
decision moment to moment about
how much of that you're going to

531
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:08,700
show, you know, whether it's in
the workplace, whether it's in a

532
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:12,800
family setting, whether it's in
a social setting, whether it's

533
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,300
in a relationship and it can be
it can be a very tricky thing.

534
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:21,700
I think for a woman to who,
especially a while put it this

535
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:25,100
way, you might think.
Think that if you put a highly

536
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,300
sensitive and highly sensitive
woman together in a

537
00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:29,700
relationship, that would work
great.

538
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:54,700
We're all shaking our hands
People getting overwhelmed in

539
00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:59,300
each other's presence at the
same time and if they are not

540
00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:03,700
aware that they have the trait.
And if they have not begun to

541
00:33:03,700 --> 00:33:06,600
learn the skill, set was
necessary to manage it

542
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,700
successfully and effectively.
Then, you know, you can have a

543
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:14,600
couple of people that are just
like, you know, a couple of raw

544
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,500
edges rubbing against each other
and it's, you know, it's not a

545
00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,500
good situation again.
I'm not saying that, you know,

546
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,100
it's not possible for that to
work.

547
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,600
Work.
But even if you have a highly

548
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,100
sensitive man, one out of five
in a relationship with a woman

549
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:33,300
or another man who is in the
four out of five.

550
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,900
Both parties have to do some
work to understand each other

551
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:43,200
because I think it's difficult.
I can't know this because you

552
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,600
know, the body.
I mean is highly sensitive.

553
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,600
But I could imagine that it
would be difficult for someone

554
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,400
who's not in a highly sensitive
body with a highly sensitive

555
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,700
physiology to.
And the experience of the person

556
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:58,700
who is, why does it takes?
And I'm, I'm in a relationship

557
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:00,100
with a wonderful woman right
now.

558
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:06,100
And I confound her all the time
because of the depth that I have

559
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:10,600
to go into to understand things
when I get triggered or when I

560
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,900
get, you know, when there's any
kind of friction or whatever.

561
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:15,800
It's like I really want to
understand what's going on here,

562
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,000
you know, and whereas a lot of
people might go.

563
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:22,000
Oh yeah, you know, we had we had
that thing again, you know, and

564
00:34:22,007 --> 00:34:25,900
then there's carry on.
But, you know, for me, every

565
00:34:26,300 --> 00:34:32,400
life is just deep for me.
It just is by its nature and I

566
00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:36,100
come to realize that not
everybody experiences life that

567
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:39,699
way, which is not to say again.
There's no better or worse here.

568
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,300
It's just a matter of different
types of experiences, a human

569
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:48,699
being Lori, dropped a common
into the into the chat.

570
00:34:48,699 --> 00:34:51,300
When we were talking about
highly sensitive man, plus

571
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:55,400
highly sensitive Woman and The
crazy s come out of that.

572
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,400
And I mean I love her common
because it's, it really goes to

573
00:34:58,408 --> 00:35:01,400
the essence of that particular
Dynamic but even more.

574
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,200
So just relationships in general
which is that you have to be in

575
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,900
your Core Essence, to make a
type of relationship work,

576
00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:11,800
otherwise you end up dropping
into victim mindset or poor me

577
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,000
conversations.
All right, right.

578
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,700
And that and that, you know, the
thought that brings up for me

579
00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:23,000
too is that, you know, I think
we talked about this during my

580
00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:26,000
Last appearance, we talked about
the difficulty that some men

581
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,700
have establishing boundaries and
knowing what they are and

582
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,600
keeping them.
And so you know that's another

583
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,800
one of those things that for
highly sensitive people is just

584
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,100
critically.
You know, crucially important is

585
00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:43,800
your ability to understand.
What about Andre is when you

586
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,100
need to set it, how you need to
go about it, what it takes to

587
00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:54,100
keep it because if, if you're,
if you're on the If you're at

588
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:57,000
risk of getting overloaded
getting overwhelmed by your

589
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,700
environment, and I say risk,
that's a strong word.

590
00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:00,900
But I think you guys know what I
mean.

591
00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:05,500
You know, if you have that
potential at all times then just

592
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:09,800
imagine how important it is to
be able to set boundaries and be

593
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,300
skillful with that and keep them
and also how difficult it can be

594
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,500
because again you know, we're
talking about almost a, you

595
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:23,700
know, An exponential difference
between the four out of five and

596
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:27,600
the one in five in terms of how
important boundaries are and and

597
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,800
how, in some ways sophisticated,
they need to be for someone

598
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,500
who's highly sensitive who's
just on the verge of being

599
00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:36,800
flooded with information all the
time, and it's not.

600
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,600
And again, it's not just about
crying, it's not just about

601
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,000
feelings.
It's just not just about

602
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,800
emotional, it's about like a
whole whole body is a physical

603
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,900
experience.
It's a psychological experience.

604
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,500
It's emotional.
It's all of that too.

605
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,000
Those four out of five that are
highly sensitive.

606
00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:56,000
Are they all the same level of
sensitivity or are there low

607
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,900
sensitivity men as well?
How does what's their the for?

608
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,400
You know, I would, I don't know
this for a fact, but I would

609
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,300
suspect that there were talking
about some kind of spectrum here

610
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,800
because I think the way that the
one out of five was determined

611
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,000
was dr.
Aaron developed the test with a

612
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,400
set of questions and she she
tested her test over and over

613
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,000
again.
And I believe she just sort of

614
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:25,600
she drew the line at 20% and
said okay?

615
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,800
Anybody that takes the test and
falls in this 20% I want to

616
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,500
classify as highly sensitive.
I doubt that that means that the

617
00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:37,300
four out of five are a monolith
you know in the other 80% where

618
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:41,300
they're all at the same level.
I would doubt that that probably

619
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,600
doesn't make too much sense to
me, but I don't know if that

620
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,000
answers your question or not but
that's that was that's what I

621
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,300
would expect.
That there will continue to be

622
00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:51,300
very Creation, right.
Yeah.

623
00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:57,000
And what is so is there a secret
to I think you used the word

624
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,500
that you embraced your
sensitivity?

625
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:07,700
I'd say I'm embracing it.
Yeah it is.

626
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:11,300
It's a it's a you know it's a
process as much as it's in

627
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:13,900
advance.
Certainly there was that moment

628
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,000
when I came across dr.
Aaron's work.

629
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:20,000
And there was a moment, a moment
being over the course of how

630
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,300
many days or weeks.
I was taking it in but there was

631
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:25,100
a moment.
Even when I open the book right

632
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:27,300
now I just kind of ha ha, you
know?

633
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:33,300
And so I guess I've had several
embrace Events around being

634
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:37,100
highly sensitive.
But, you know, in the, I guess,

635
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:40,600
from a day-to-day situation.
It's something that I have to

636
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,900
embrace on an ongoing basis.
Because again, there are still

637
00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:51,400
all sorts of voices and impulses
in me that would just like not

638
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,700
to be like this, you know,
sometimes because it can be, you

639
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:59,000
know, it can be difficult and
the world feels hostile, a lot

640
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,900
of the time.
Feels less hostile when I

641
00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:07,900
understand myself and I'm not
sort of enslaved by conditioning

642
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:12,700
and patterns that were imposed
upon me, but I'm still aware

643
00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:16,000
that it's in order to take care
of myself.

644
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:21,500
I do need to be aware of the
different degrees of safety, in

645
00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:24,700
terms of what I reveal and who I
reveal it to in terms of how I

646
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:28,900
behave you know I'm not going to
walk around like a clam without

647
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:32,500
a shell, all the time.
Because that's not a good idea.

648
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,000
Mmm.
So it's a combination of self

649
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:42,400
knowledge, awareness and
boundaries hoping to help help

650
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,700
highly sensitive man, navigate
life and and stead of overwhelm

651
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:48,300
as much as possible.
Mmm.

652
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,200
Yeah.
And and also, you have to do

653
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,900
have to develop some resiliency.
I mean, you do because there's a

654
00:39:54,908 --> 00:39:58,800
lot of Cruelty out in the world,
and as nice as it might be, to

655
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,100
think that, if I share my whole
self with everybody, that

656
00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:05,700
they're going to be respectful.
They're going to be kind and

657
00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:08,300
they're going to make an effort
to understand that's just not

658
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:10,000
the case.
And even the most

659
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,700
well-intentioned people and
especially if you're an intimate

660
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:16,700
relationship, she's going to get
hurt and it's going to be

661
00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:20,600
unintentional, a lot of the
time, and I think that, you

662
00:40:20,607 --> 00:40:23,900
know, part of my process now is
to it is possible.

663
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:26,100
I think, based on my own
experience for highly sensitive

664
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:32,100
people to get better at dealing
with behaviors, that they find

665
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,900
injuries.
Their sensitivity and I think

666
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:40,500
it's necessary to continue to
work with that and look at it

667
00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:45,400
and ask yourself a lot of my
process has been like this guy's

668
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,500
like for me.
If somebody does something to be

669
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:50,600
that's hurtful, I would
interpret it as well.

670
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,400
If I did that, it would mean
such and such you know, in other

671
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,400
words, if I did that, I would, I
must really not like them, you

672
00:40:58,408 --> 00:41:01,600
know, and it's been part of
myself, education has been to

673
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,000
realize that we're not all Wired
and put together the same way.

674
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:09,800
I mean, some people will just
throw off the meanest comment

675
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:12,800
and it's very much a transient
thing.

676
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:17,500
There's not a lot of emotional
weight behind it, but for me,

677
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:20,200
it's like, well, if I said that
it would mean, you know, I was

678
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,500
about to, you know, drop a
16-ton, wait on you, like it's

679
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:25,400
not like that for everybody, you
know?

680
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,900
So, and I think that that's
actually something that it can

681
00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:33,700
start out as a.
It's a disadvantage in the and

682
00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:35,700
the respect.
You're highly sensitive, you

683
00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:41,100
know, you can get hurt
emotionally, fairly easy because

684
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,500
of the, the level of openness in
the depth to which everything

685
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:49,700
comes in.
But at the same time, if you

686
00:41:49,707 --> 00:41:53,100
decide that you want to work
with that and get more resilient

687
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:56,800
and develop some more skillful
discretion about how you

688
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:02,100
interpret things, then you have
a full palette to work with when

689
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:04,000
it comes to your emotional
intelligence.

690
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,800
And so you can really use that
to your advantage to get more

691
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:14,400
resilient without having to
sacrifice your innate nature

692
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:21,200
because if a highly sensitive
person is going to feel hurt

693
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:27,800
easier deeper more often.
Might they also be easier and

694
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,900
more often feeling positive
emotions and you know I'll be

695
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:35,300
the first to feel Joy.
The first to feel Like a

696
00:42:35,300 --> 00:42:36,700
relationship is going really
well.

697
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:38,500
And you know, does it, does it
go both ways?

698
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:43,100
The sensitivity emotionally.
I think that's fair to say and I

699
00:42:43,107 --> 00:42:46,200
guess the way I would put it is
that you know, and I think this

700
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,400
is true in common for highly
sensitive.

701
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:49,800
People is true and comment for
me.

702
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:54,900
Everything is so deeply
meaningful so that when you feel

703
00:42:54,900 --> 00:43:01,800
her it feels deeply meaningfully
hurtful and when you feel joy

704
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:08,100
and peace and closeness and
connection and satisfaction and

705
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:11,000
all those things, those are also
deeply meaningful.

706
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:16,600
Hmm, yeah.
Yeah.

707
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,800
It's funny.
How many people say they want

708
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,900
more meaning in life yet?
If you said, oh do you want to

709
00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:26,600
be highly sensitive?
They probably say no, well,

710
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,000
again, it's there are so many
negative connotations with it

711
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,400
and, you know, I don't know what
we do about that other than to

712
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,500
keep having conversations like
this, because I don't think you

713
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:42,300
can, I don't think it's possible
to really beat down a negative

714
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,500
kind Nation until it goes away.
I think what you do is you

715
00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:49,800
broaden the conversation, you
know, often enough and in, you

716
00:43:49,808 --> 00:43:53,400
know, as many ways as you can.
So that you begin to get a

717
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,400
situation where there's, there's
a positive, the sits alongside

718
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,000
the - and then people can start
to see the contrast and, of

719
00:44:00,008 --> 00:44:03,500
course, you know, the more
conversations we have like this,

720
00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:07,800
the more somebody can watch this
and go all the sensitive, guys,

721
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,100
what a bunch of wimps, man?
I don't know if I can sit

722
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:13,300
through this whole thing, you
know, and Then they watch it

723
00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:14,900
they go.
Well, these guys are all right,

724
00:44:14,900 --> 00:44:18,900
you know, they're not sitting
there, you know, complaining and

725
00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:22,300
whining.
And you know, coming across is

726
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:24,900
weak, you know, it's just like,
well, yeah, these are kind of

727
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:27,900
like regular guys but they're
just talking about this thing

728
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,800
that I'm a little uncomfortable
with and, you know, maybe it's

729
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,700
not that bad, you know.
And again, I think it's so

730
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:37,000
important not to like, bring out
the heavy stick and go,

731
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,600
everybody must be as sensitive
as I am.

732
00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:45,400
Is like no, I don't want that.
Ha, ha ha, that's boring.

733
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:48,700
We don't need that.
You know, we don't need that.

734
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:51,600
And I mean, we need a mix of
people that are going to just

735
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,300
like rush into the breach, you
know, and just start swinging

736
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,900
and because that's a way to get
things done.

737
00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:02,600
Another way to get things done,
this proceed more carefully and

738
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,700
have a, you know, and have a
fuller deeper understanding and

739
00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:09,200
have a have have something fully
conceptualized.

740
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,800
We need those things to co-exist
together, you know, and It's one

741
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,400
of the things I've said before
to that I really want to see is

742
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:20,200
I want to see I want to see
highly sensitive man coexist and

743
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,100
more than that partner, with the
four out of five men, we need

744
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:26,900
each other because we have
things that we can learn from

745
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:31,200
each other.
I learned a lot from Friends

746
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:35,200
throughout high school and
college, that we're not highly

747
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,700
sensitive at all.
They did a lot of things that

748
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:41,500
honestly, horrified me, I
couldn't believe it, you know,

749
00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:45,500
some of the stuff they And it's
kind of led me along with them,

750
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,800
but that was good for me because
it built out my base of

751
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:54,400
experience and it allowed me to
kind of find out where my edges

752
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,900
were.
And that is something that I

753
00:45:56,900 --> 00:46:00,600
believe is very strongly is
necessary and important for

754
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:05,400
highly sensitive people men and
women is to not just stay inside

755
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:09,100
the boundaries of, you know, how
you see yourself.

756
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:12,200
You have you want to take care
of yourself?

757
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:14,600
And you want to keep yourself
safe and you don't want to get

758
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,200
overwhelmed blown out because
it's very easy for Highway says,

759
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,100
some people to just get their
nervous systems in their bodies.

760
00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:23,400
All blown out.
You know, if you try to act like

761
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,000
everybody else, the metaphor
I've used is like it's like

762
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,300
trying to pound nails of the
microscope, you know, you're

763
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:33,400
going to break the thing, you
know, and you're not going to

764
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:34,900
pound a whole lot of nails with
it either.

765
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:41,800
So, yeah, I think it's, I think
it's useful to get out there and

766
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,400
test yourself.
And test your edges in ways that

767
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:50,600
are reasonable.
And again that's another way to

768
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,600
build resiliency, you know.
One of the things I find myself

769
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,600
and I think this is true.
Also one of the downsides of all

770
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,100
the preparation and processing
stuff is sometimes, it's highly

771
00:47:00,100 --> 00:47:02,100
sensitive people.
We just hang back you know,

772
00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:04,800
because we want to get it all
sussed out we want to get it.

773
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,200
All right?
And that's not the best way to

774
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,600
grow a lot of the time.
A lot of the times to get out

775
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,400
there and I learned that in
Corporate environments.

776
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,600
You know I would I would work on
working on Project was a

777
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,200
schedule or a technical paper or
whatever.

778
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,700
I always wanted to get it right.
I don't want to see anybody any

779
00:47:21,700 --> 00:47:24,200
to see it until it and I thought
I had the whole thing.

780
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,100
Well, I couldn't get the whole
thing until somebody else saw

781
00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:30,400
it, you know, I would just spin
my wheels forever and I learned

782
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,700
that it's better to put
something out and I'm still

783
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:35,200
working with us in myself.
It's better to put something out

784
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,200
and have it.
Not be Flawless and get some

785
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,000
feedback and rework it and keep
putting it out and keep moving.

786
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,100
And I don't know if that's just
me or maybe that's a thing with

787
00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:50,200
hsps you know, that you can get
gridlocked, trying to get it,

788
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,000
all right.
And so it's in that and just

789
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,400
kind of loop back around what I
was talking about, that's why

790
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,500
it's good.
I think for highly sensitive men

791
00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:01,900
to be intermixed with the four
and five who are not highly

792
00:48:01,900 --> 00:48:05,800
sensitive because we help each
other, you know, being around

793
00:48:06,300 --> 00:48:09,700
you know the the other four and
five for me led me into

794
00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:11,300
territory.
I never would have gone into

795
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:13,200
otherwise myself.
Because I would have been

796
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,500
hanging back hanging back and
hang back, while it was good for

797
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:17,300
me.
It helped me expand and grow.

798
00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:21,400
And again, build resiliency, on
the other hand, if you have

799
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:28,100
organizations, that are teams or
whatever that are completely

800
00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:31,500
built out of the four out of
five, you going to have a lot of

801
00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:34,500
rockets blowing up on the path,
you know.

802
00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:41,000
Yeah, that's that's so true.
That's a sprocket pulling up on

803
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,100
the pad going to have bombs
going off in the room as well.

804
00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:48,400
Yeah, yeah, it's so it's a, you
know, it's so I think a lot of

805
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,800
the time, the highly sensitive
person is sort of almost like

806
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:57,800
the works as an advisor.
You know, to basically and

807
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,700
there's tension and I've always
had that in organizations, to

808
00:49:00,700 --> 00:49:02,900
there's tension between the
people of want, to Surge ahead,

809
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:05,500
you know, and the people that
are saying, hold up a minute.

810
00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:08,900
Might be better if we just spent
a week doing this and then we

811
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:11,700
go.
But again, that's what again,

812
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:12,900
that's why I say highly
sensitive.

813
00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:18,100
Now men who are not in that 20%,
we need each other because we're

814
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:22,500
incomplete without each other.
And you know, the the four out

815
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:28,500
of five, sometimes need to be
reminded that hey, we can slow

816
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:32,100
this down, you know, and the one
out of five need to be reminded

817
00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:35,300
the like look, let's move
forward so that we can make some

818
00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:36,600
progress.
Dress and then we'll make

819
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,400
adjustments as we go.
No more paralysis by analysis,

820
00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:42,400
right?
Right.

821
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,500
Yeah.
You know, one of the things that

822
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:49,000
that's been kind of the back of
my head during this conversation

823
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,600
is I've been sitting here
thinking about my own experience

824
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,100
is not just in this culture, but
in different cultures around the

825
00:49:55,100 --> 00:49:57,300
world, I mean, the two cultures
I'm most familiar with other

826
00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:00,500
Latin culture because my own
family background and of course

827
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:03,500
this culture because again it's
part of my family, back on it

828
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:09,000
where I've grown up The city of
wondering what other what

829
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:14,700
cultures if there are any
cultures out there that we know

830
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:19,800
of that might actually value and
appreciate the, what the highly

831
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,800
sensitive people bring to the
table.

832
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,600
Especially, highly sensitive
men.

833
00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:29,000
I would guess that it would be
typically, it would be

834
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,100
subcultures within cultures that
have that kind of appreciation.

835
00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:35,100
So I don't know.
I guess the thing that comes to

836
00:50:35,107 --> 00:50:38,500
mind for me is like in, you
know, in Middle Ages, Europe.

837
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:42,800
The monasteries, you know, where
you had, you know, you had a

838
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,900
little population of people that
I don't know if they're highly

839
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:47,800
sensitive or not.
I'm just extrapolating and

840
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:53,100
guessing, but if you think
about, you know, all the very

841
00:50:53,100 --> 00:50:56,100
intricate work, that was done.
The very A painstaking work of

842
00:50:56,100 --> 00:50:59,000
copying these scripts and manage
strips and all this kind of

843
00:50:59,008 --> 00:51:03,200
stuff in that whole lifestyle
that strikes me as maybe kind of

844
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,400
a highly sensitive person type
of subculture.

845
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,800
And I think that, you know, I
think again if you look at the

846
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:17,300
Arts probably a lot of hsts in
the Arts, if you look at some of

847
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:20,100
the helping professions,
probably a lot of hsps and

848
00:51:20,100 --> 00:51:24,000
helping professions.
So I think, you know, in a sense

849
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,100
of abroad culture, I'm not aware
of one sense of, right?

850
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:30,200
And sense of subcultures within
a broader culture, I think that,

851
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,600
you know, those might be some
examples.

852
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:36,300
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense
is and I was just thinking just

853
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:41,200
not even like for instance
tribal cultures, where the

854
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,200
shaman, you know, the tribe
Shaman could in fact be, you

855
00:51:44,207 --> 00:51:47,700
know what HSV I would, I would
suspect as much.

856
00:51:47,700 --> 00:51:51,000
Yeah, because again we're
talking about someone who has

857
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:56,600
the capacity and is built to
process a Lot of information at

858
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:00,400
once take it in, I think it'll
add information once a lot of

859
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,300
different levels process.
It deeply go into that Retreat

860
00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:06,900
space.
Go deep into that inner space

861
00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:11,400
and that emerge with something
that's strikes.

862
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,000
Me as a typical HST kind of
thing.

863
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,700
Yeah, I'm packed Lori just
shared something in the chat

864
00:52:18,700 --> 00:52:22,500
that she's being said, you may
very well loved taking of an

865
00:52:22,500 --> 00:52:24,800
assessment for that without
light.

866
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,500
If purpose profiles because
where you, you've been

867
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:30,600
describing this whole time, is
the emotional intelligence

868
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,300
specialist.
Yeah.

869
00:52:33,700 --> 00:52:36,000
That's a good point.
Exactly yeah.

870
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:41,900
Certainly that's a creator that
yeah you've mentioned the hsps a

871
00:52:41,900 --> 00:52:45,900
disorder.
But do you think there's many

872
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,500
highly sensitive people that are
mistakenly labeled with

873
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:55,800
disorders?
Again I'm not a clinician but I

874
00:52:55,800 --> 00:53:00,500
wouldn't be surprised to find
that there were especially you

875
00:53:00,500 --> 00:53:05,900
know in preceding decades
because if you don't know what

876
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:09,800
you are and you don't know why
you're behaving the way you are

877
00:53:09,900 --> 00:53:12,800
and you go to somebody and you
say I need help with us and they

878
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,100
don't know what you are either.
There's a good chance they're

879
00:53:16,100 --> 00:53:18,100
going to try to put some kind of
label on you that they

880
00:53:18,100 --> 00:53:19,300
understand.
Right.

881
00:53:19,300 --> 00:53:21,200
Right.
Because even even this nothing

882
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,100
disorder it.
It is a label as well.

883
00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:25,900
And any trait is labeling.
Exactly.

884
00:53:25,900 --> 00:53:31,300
Yeah, and prior to prior, to
this label for lack of a better

885
00:53:31,300 --> 00:53:33,200
word, existing.
All you had was a carrot was a

886
00:53:33,207 --> 00:53:37,000
set of behaviors and experiences
and those could be mapped into

887
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,000
all kinds of other things.
If somebody doesn't know what to

888
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:45,800
do with them, do you think it's
easier or more difficult to grow

889
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:57,000
up as a sensitive man today?
Boy, that's a hard one to

890
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,000
answer.
I think I'll just go off the top

891
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,200
of my head.
What came to me was?

892
00:54:02,100 --> 00:54:06,600
I think it's just as hard but
for different reasons in some

893
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,700
ways than what I experienced,
some different reasons, I mean

894
00:54:09,700 --> 00:54:13,600
there's overlap but certainly
the culture that a boy is

895
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,300
growing up in today is different
than the culture that I grew up

896
00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:23,700
in the 1960s, but I still don't,
I think some progress has been

897
00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:26,900
made.
In terms of sensitivity and men

898
00:54:26,900 --> 00:54:31,000
being acceptable.
I'm going to say this though.

899
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,200
I feel like we've regressed a
bit in the sense that I see a

900
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:41,500
lot of pressure and a lot of
Demands on meant to be sensitive

901
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,900
and I don't think either one of
those ends of the spectrum is

902
00:54:46,900 --> 00:54:48,700
actually very healthy and very
functional.

903
00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:53,100
Yes, it sounds like, and it's
almost like now there's a, it's

904
00:54:53,100 --> 00:54:54,500
almost like there's a section of
the cost.

905
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:58,200
This the the takes the position
that if men are not all equally

906
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,800
sensitive than theirs, they're
doing it wrong, right?

907
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,900
If if so if anyone, anything
pressuring a man to be more or

908
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:06,800
less sensitive than they
naturally are creates problems.

909
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:12,100
That's perfectly stated.
Yeah, and I, I am absolutely

910
00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:15,900
militantly against that.
Yeah, because I think that

911
00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:18,600
there's seemed, there's
generally more openness for men

912
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,500
to be feeling, but especially
for for kids.

913
00:55:21,500 --> 00:55:25,500
There's, there's way more ways
to be bullied, and Used and then

914
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:27,100
there were when I was growing up
as room.

915
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,900
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that it's, I guess

916
00:55:30,900 --> 00:55:35,800
the make another half crazy
statement, perhaps, I guess the

917
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,800
thing I could say about, you
know, the time, the state of the

918
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,000
culture when I grow up is like
there wasn't any confusion about

919
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,600
how I thought I was supposed to
be, you know, in terms of what

920
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,900
was being externally, imposed,
it was very clear.

921
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,400
Now, what I see is a lack of
clarity and I'm not saying that

922
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,000
one's better than the other.
But sometimes having you know,

923
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,100
an infinite number of options
can be crippling and and so I

924
00:56:01,100 --> 00:56:05,400
think that that's a challenge.
Now to the that I didn't have

925
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,600
it's like I knew exactly.
You know what the criteria were?

926
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:13,100
I didn't need them a lot of the
time and that was a problem.

927
00:56:14,100 --> 00:56:18,200
Now I feel like, you know, it
could be like an overabundance

928
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:23,900
of possibilities can also be
almost oppressive in some ways

929
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,500
for Some kids.
Yeah, well actually, there's

930
00:56:27,500 --> 00:56:30,400
plenty of studies out there that
show that, you know, when we

931
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,900
have fewer choices available to
us, were much more likely to not

932
00:56:34,900 --> 00:56:39,100
only feel happier but also more
likely to make decisions and

933
00:56:40,300 --> 00:56:43,700
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And one other point, I want to

934
00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:48,100
make sure that I make is that
being a highly sensitive person

935
00:56:48,100 --> 00:56:50,600
and I kind of alluded to it
before a couple times being a

936
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,700
highly sensitive person doesn't
mean you're better than other

937
00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:55,600
people.
It doesn't mean that That's your

938
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,400
own somehow, automatically more
advanced more mature.

939
00:57:00,700 --> 00:57:06,100
It doesn't mean that you won't
do things that are hurtful to

940
00:57:06,100 --> 00:57:09,900
other people.
It doesn't mean that you're

941
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:14,300
somehow High a higher evolved
being and it doesn't mean that

942
00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:20,100
you don't have to do your own
work to develop your to develop

943
00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:22,300
the emotional intelligence
that's available to you.

944
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:27,100
It doesn't automatically.
Ali confer, exalted status on a

945
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:29,000
person to say that they're
highly sensitive.

946
00:57:32,300 --> 00:57:33,200
Yeah.
That's that to be the case that

947
00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:36,100
the Prejudice to go that way.
Yeah.

948
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,600
Oh exalted highly sensitive one.
How are you today?

949
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:40,100
Right.
Right.

950
00:57:40,300 --> 00:57:42,900
But that's one of those that's
one of those Impressions that I

951
00:57:42,908 --> 00:57:47,400
like to try to dispel up front,
you know, I like to go after

952
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,300
that one proactively because you
know, yeah, I'm a highly

953
00:57:51,300 --> 00:57:53,900
sensitive person and because of
the damage that I sustained

954
00:57:53,900 --> 00:57:57,400
growing up I was pretty passive
aggressive when I was younger.

955
00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:59,300
So, it's, like, guess what?
You can be.

956
00:57:59,300 --> 00:58:01,900
Highly sensitive and passive
aggressive at the same time.

957
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,000
Gosh, so important for guys are
getting hammered from every

958
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:13,500
direction.
Are we driving itself?

959
00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:16,300
As you have to own your wife,
you know, and it doesn't it

960
00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:19,300
doesn't matter.
You know what your innate nature

961
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:23,100
is, you have to own your wife,
you know, and of that.

962
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,200
Even if there's a highly
sensitive man.

963
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,200
Oh, maybe there's a guy that's
hearing this term for the first

964
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,500
time right now.
Listening to us, talk about it,

965
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:35,800
rick it and not be as well.
What, what's one piece of advice

966
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,800
for the foreperson discovering
that they are highly sensitive

967
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:45,600
and not sure what to do with it.
I would say go and find that

968
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,400
Elaine Aaron book, The highly
sensitive person.

969
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:53,600
How to thrive, when wife
overwhelms, you Or if you don't

970
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,600
want to get the book, go to her
website and you can Google it,

971
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,000
you can find it easily.
She has a self test on there.

972
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,000
Take the self tests.
I know, self-test, people go, oh

973
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,600
my God.
What is this Cosmo or something?

974
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:07,800
It's like, no.
This is the test that she's been

975
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,700
using that.
She's that she's been using

976
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:12,400
diagnostically.
And at least just take it and

977
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:16,600
see where is score on the thing.
But I would say, you know, to

978
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,900
indirect answer your question,
get her book and read it because

979
00:59:20,900 --> 00:59:23,200
that Is the starting point as
far as I'm concerned.

980
00:59:24,500 --> 00:59:28,000
Yeah, I love that.
And I would say, yeah, do that.

981
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:33,900
And then no practice what you
learn, but it's to use and, you

982
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:39,400
know, become aware and know when
it's appropriate to share that

983
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:44,500
sensitivity and when you needs
to just learn the circumstances

984
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:47,900
in which he might be highly
sensitive and others.

985
00:59:47,900 --> 00:59:51,100
When it's like, okay, you know
what, I'm still aware but I'm

986
00:59:51,100 --> 00:59:53,300
not Not going to display it,
right?

987
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:54,900
Right.
Yeah.

988
00:59:54,900 --> 00:59:57,500
It's about learning how to live
strategically, you know?

989
00:59:57,500 --> 01:00:01,600
Yeah, yeah.
And of course, the other thing I

990
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,300
would have to say Andy is that
like, you know, if you're a man

991
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:06,500
who's listening to the or a
woman either, if you're

992
01:00:06,500 --> 01:00:08,600
listening to this and you think,
oh, I might be highly sensitive,

993
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,700
and I'd like to get some help
learning how I can make the most

994
01:00:12,700 --> 01:00:18,200
of this and learn about myself.
You know, you can contact me.

995
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:22,400
I've coached highly sensitive
people and I offer a free one

996
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,700
hour Discovery session.
We can have a conversation about

997
01:00:24,700 --> 01:00:26,600
it and you can decide if that's
something you want to pursue

998
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,100
with me or not.
Super.

999
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:29,900
So what's the best way for
people to reach you Rick?

1000
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,700
My website is Rick Belden
coaching.com and if you go there

1001
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,100
you'll see everything that you
need.

1002
01:00:36,100 --> 01:00:40,100
If you want to explore further
with cool and I'll be sure

1003
01:00:40,700 --> 01:00:43,900
wherever you may be listening.
This visit the real men field or

1004
01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:46,100
blog and we'll have links to
Rick site.

1005
01:00:46,100 --> 01:00:48,100
Will have links to Elaine's book
will have links to the self

1006
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:52,100
tests and maybe in the next show
will Reporter results.

1007
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:57,800
Good idea.
See where our scheduling you for

1008
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:02,100
the next one.
That's all right.

1009
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,800
So anytime you guys want to have
you back, I think we can cook up

1010
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,100
something.
Do they overlap it all is, what

1011
01:01:23,100 --> 01:01:26,100
a highly sensitive person.
Be more likely to have wounds or

1012
01:01:26,100 --> 01:01:28,300
would the wounds create a highly
sensitive person?

1013
01:01:28,300 --> 01:01:30,800
Is there a correlation?
I think that's a really great

1014
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:35,200
question and the way I look at
it is this if you take two

1015
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:39,800
children and you put them in the
same situation and one is highly

1016
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,200
sensitive.
And the other is not.

1017
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:45,900
And we're talking about a
situation where there's this

1018
01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:47,800
function.
There's neglect there's abuse in

1019
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,000
the family.
I would believe that the

1020
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,200
highwomen Highly sensitive child
would come out of that situation

1021
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:57,400
with more damage and the reason
is because again we're talking

1022
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,600
about someone who
physiologically psychologically

1023
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:04,400
emotionally takes in more
information than the other child

1024
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:09,400
does and takes it in more deeply
and everything feels much more

1025
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,200
meaningful.
Everything is invested with

1026
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:16,700
tremendous meaning and so the
wounding I would say, has to go

1027
01:02:16,700 --> 01:02:20,300
deeper it, tends to be broader.
It tends to have deeper roots.

1028
01:02:21,300 --> 01:02:27,600
It and everything tends to sink
a little farther in and and

1029
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,600
because of the innate need to
process things, it's going to

1030
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:35,300
require some deeper processing
to work that through it.

1031
01:02:35,900 --> 01:02:40,600
But again the the results of
that are going to be very

1032
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:45,900
profound in terms of healing in
terms of improvement and and

1033
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:48,500
that's not to say that the other
child wouldn't sustain damage

1034
01:02:48,500 --> 01:02:52,600
that has to be dealt with to but
I We're talking about you know

1035
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,500
to use kind of I don't know,
kind of a like really high level

1036
01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:58,600
metaphor.
It's almost like you got a small

1037
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,200
sponge in a big sponge you know
and just and you soak them both

1038
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,900
with water.
Well you know your the small

1039
01:03:04,900 --> 01:03:08,000
ones going to get rung out and
drive faster than the big one

1040
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,100
does.
Cool.

1041
01:03:10,100 --> 01:03:13,200
It's nice when you're looking at
it if you're raised by sponges.

1042
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,500
Yeah.
Well you don't know who's

1043
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:17,900
listening.
Well and actually that SpongeBob

1044
01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:19,200
SquarePants, he's hiding
something.

1045
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,100
Yeah, I think you're right a
good example.

1046
01:03:23,500 --> 01:03:25,500
Yeah.
Schools.

1047
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:31,900
Well, this is again, it's been a
fascinating subject and I feel

1048
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:35,000
like you keep going forever on
this one, especially as you

1049
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,600
discover and open up to your to
our own Sensitivity.

1050
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,000
I think we're all kind of
self-identified as highly

1051
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,200
sensitive people here.
But you know, one thing to

1052
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,400
realize if people are
discovering this with the first

1053
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,600
time that, that you're not
alone, you know, you're at least

1054
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,200
one in five.
Right?

1055
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,000
Right.
So yeah, yeah, I know.

1056
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:57,300
And again that To me that
amplifies the need for

1057
01:03:57,300 --> 01:04:00,700
understanding this because we're
talking about a fairly again,

1058
01:04:00,700 --> 01:04:02,000
we're talking about men
specifically.

1059
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,600
This is a large number of men
that were talking about, you

1060
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:07,000
know, if these numbers are
correct.

1061
01:04:07,100 --> 01:04:10,400
It's a very large number of men.
And that means that even if

1062
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,700
you're not, you know, somebody
who is, you know, several men

1063
01:04:13,700 --> 01:04:17,700
who are they may not know they
are but they're around you.

1064
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,000
So even if you're not 15
reading, the book did learning

1065
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,100
more about this can help, you
know about your friends better

1066
01:04:23,100 --> 01:04:25,800
too.
Well, sure, I think it would and

1067
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:27,300
I think, you know, again, if
we're talking about

1068
01:04:27,300 --> 01:04:31,400
relationships and Partnerships,
if you're in, you know, a

1069
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,100
partnership with someone who
knows that he or she is highly

1070
01:04:34,100 --> 01:04:36,300
sensitive.
You know, you might want to take

1071
01:04:36,300 --> 01:04:39,300
a look at the book because it
might help you understand some

1072
01:04:39,300 --> 01:04:40,900
of the behaviors that are just
confounding to.

1073
01:04:40,900 --> 01:04:45,700
You want to thanks again for
another great conversation and I

1074
01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:51,000
bet there's going to be a third
and everyone can can get in

1075
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,600
touch with you at Rick Belden
coaching.com and Other links

1076
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,900
everything we discussed.
I will track down the links and

1077
01:04:56,900 --> 01:05:00,200
post them at real men.
Feel that org, and and thanks

1078
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,300
for joining us.
Hey, thanks for having me on

1079
01:05:02,300 --> 01:05:03,300
again.
This is another great

1080
01:05:03,300 --> 01:05:06,700
conversation, really, enjoyed it
flew right by awesome.

1081
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,600
All right, have a good night.
Everybody have a good night,

1082
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,600
guys.
All right, thank you for

1083
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,100
listening to real men field.
Until next week, visit real men

1084
01:05:17,100 --> 01:05:20,500
field dot org or the real men,
feel Facebook group and share

1085
01:05:20,500 --> 01:05:22,200
what you thought of this
episode.

1086
01:05:22,700 --> 01:05:26,100
Please give this podcast.
A review on iTunes, Google play,

1087
01:05:26,100 --> 01:05:30,300
or wherever you are discovering
real men field reach out to us

1088
01:05:30,300 --> 01:05:35,100
at real men field at gmail.com
show us some love by visiting

1089
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,600
real men.
Feel dot org, slash swag, or

1090
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:42,100
digital tip jar.com /.
Real men field.

1091
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:47,100
Learn more about Auntie Grant at
the and Grant.com and I feel

1092
01:05:47,100 --> 01:05:26,100
Hunter a top pro hunter.com.
A review on iTunes, Google play,

1093
01:05:26,100 --> 01:05:30,300
or wherever you are discovering
real men field reach out to us

1094
01:05:30,300 --> 01:05:35,100
at real men field at gmail.com
show us some love by visiting

1095
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,600
real men.
Feel dot org, slash swag, or

1096
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:42,100
digital tip jar.com /.
Real men field.

1097
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:47,100
Learn more about Auntie Grant at
the and Grant.com and I feel

1098
01:05:47,100 --> 01:05:49,000
Hunter a top pro hunter.com.