Leadership In Chaotic Times with James Greenshields

0:01 Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel. I'm your host, author, coach and healer, Andy Grant. Please visit theandygrant.com to learn more about me. Real Men Feel exists to remind men that they are human beings and they have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men are not having, but that all men can benefit from. My returning guest today is James Greenshields. James is a husband of over 20 years and honored father of two amazing women. He served 17 years as an Australian Army officer and woke up in combat. Now with over 14 years post military, James has Co founded and been the lead facilitator for leadership and men's well-being at the Emergence Leaders Foundation.

0:46 He couples experiences with First Nation people around the globe running youth rites of passage for 10 years, overlaid on practical understanding of leadership and environments as diverse as the battlefield. Boardrooms and professional sports have enabled him to create a new paradigm of leadership he calls harmonic leadership. Let's do it. Welcome back to Real Men Field, James. Thanks brother, great to be back. You know it had been a we we spoke just the other day for the first time and we knew it had been a while, but you and your wife Kirstie were on real men feel it was way back show #48 in 2017 it.

1:27 Was 2017 right? I remember where we were. We were in a park and we're there and talking to you. Because I just remember the experience, but I didn't realize it was 2017. Wow. Yeah, you. So you weren't the first Australian guest, but you were the first married couple to to be appear at the same time as as guests? Yeah, right. Yeah, humbled. And you're still together. Yes, we are very good. 2020 years this year, 20 years of marriage, 25 years of being together. Yeah, very good. So you had reached out because you're doing a lot of work lately helping self-sufficient communities and that was really falling into your, your leadership niche.

2:08 So, so tell me about what that's like. What does it mean to to have a help help a community become more self-sufficient? Well, I, I suppose you take one step even further back than that. Lots of people are, are just looking around the world at the moment and they're commenting on how they see the world in a, in a negative way. They don't like what's happening. But The thing is, so many people are then waiting for someone else to come along and fix it. And I, I've since around, you know, I left the military in 2010. I'd had a lot of experience from Iraqis, Timor and I, I got to see quite a lot of, quite a lot of different ways, I suppose, of living in harsh conditions and, and turbulence and obviously combat, et cetera.

2:53 But when I got home, I, I, you know, going, coming out of post traumatic stress from that experience, it was something really dawned on me about the nature of community because my, my healing journey, like I, I got out in the middle of our, our nations capital called Canberra. And that was where I had my last posting and, and my last job and, and I only moved about about 10 kilometers outside Canberra itself. So for that year, I never felt that I left the military. It was, it was still 2IN it. So we moved up to a beautiful place called Melania on the Sunshine Coast, which is, is an indigenous people up there that have been custodians of that place of the Gubby Gubby.

3:35 And I'm realistically that's where I started my healing journey home from, from post traumatic stress and everything. And then we travelled Australia 10 years ago, 2014, in a Canberra trailer with my two daughters. They were seven and five at the time. And we just had epic experiences. And I felt like I was constantly putting myself back together. I found myself in the in the deep in the Indonesian jungles, taking some Indigenous elders back to their ancient burial caves, just having experience after experience of just connection. And then finally we've been living in this area called the Northern Rivers, just near a place called Byron Bay. And, and this is Bungelung Nation territory. And I found home tree here.

4:17 So what it constantly showed me was the place of community. And each community we visited was extremely different but beautiful and a lot of nuances which were the same but beautiful unto their own. And it became extremely self-evident to me. The communities know themselves best. Yes, they, they can always like benefit from an objective outside observative to, to look at denial and other things which are going on, but they actually know the nuances of themselves best. So then it started to really dawn on me that every issue on the planet can be solved at a community level within a global context because we're networked, we're global, and there's no going back from that unless we have a, you know, an Armageddon Day. And I just, I just introduced my youngest daughter to Armageddon with Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck, and she liked the soundtrack, you know, so, so unless we have something like that, you know, we'll always be networked in some way, shape or form.

5:11 And there's a, there's a beauty to that. But if we lose track that the community's the real essence of why we're alive, it brings so much, you know, alive. You look at, you look at mental health issues like those that isolate them, depression, anxiety, trauma, they're all isolative conditions. When community is brought forth, they can actually do healing. First Nation people have known this for eons in that we'll have ceremony, ritual and process to actually allow for that healing process to be contained, vectored and and moved through. I mean, I'm, I'm in the shadow of a thing called Upper Wilson's Creek, which is deep in the nightcap range, the largest Caldara or big volcanic area in the Southern hemisphere and really, really powerful land.

5:53 I mean, mountain Warning, it is just over there and it's the 1st place that the light touches Australia, the Australian mainland in the morning. And, and Mount Warning itself is the for the indigenous. It's the the place of spiritual constitution and and law LORE. So it's really, really powerful land. Actually a major song line or Ley line between, across Australia, between Byron Bay and and Monkey Meyer right over on the West Coast. I'm sitting on it. And up in the valley of Wilson's Creek. That was just man territory and trauma. People would go in there, heal the trauma and the women would hold space around the escarment. They wouldn't go in. And so they knew the land, they knew the community, they knew what was needed.

6:34 And, and you look at farming communities and I'm, I'm pretty sure with my understanding of being out of the state's bit, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of similarity in that, that essence, not only from your indigenous people there, but also from your country people. They know the land is so much better, but it didn't come into the cities. And when we get out of our own backyard, out of our own like apartment block, etcetera, and we start meeting people, when we do that, there's, there's a sense of unity that comes together instead of separation. And So what I found is communities, the number one building block. When we get that right, then everything else starts to take to take forms to come back to this initial point, which was people are waiting so much for everyone else.

7:19 And we had 22 communities across the eastern seaboard of Australia. And what my job was particularly was the architect to build the governance and, and the leadership structures for that. But also what I quickly identified was a shift of consciousness was necessary. And there was a lot of fighting. People were fighting because they didn't like what was going on. But the issue with the fight is that the rebel or the rebellion is dictated by the authority that they're rebelling against. If you think about it, if the authority moves left, then you have to move right. If it moves right, you have to move left. And So what I was helping them understand is that when you do that, you're creating from the old and you're creating from your trauma. So you'll simply, but create more trauma.

8:00 And therefore you have to have a, you have a need for trauma. You actually trauma bonded. So what I was helping people understand is we can move beyond resilience and trauma to create from a place of love. And when you do that, you completely create from a place new that is for you and for your family, for your future. North American Indians make a decision for considering 7 generations into the future because they know that 7 generations before were connected to the thing, to the moment in time that they're in right now. So, you know, using those very simple ancient concepts and just helping people remember them and then empowering people to stand up and and saying we don't actually agree with the fact that you guys are removing all these this beautiful country because of the all these trees, etcetera. For some development.

8:50 No, we want, this is our community and our community wants to be in a certain way, but not just saying that being able to not fight it per SE, but provide alternative options, provide, you know, a way forward, a vision for everyone to move forward, not just to go stop, stop, stop, but go real. I realize, OK, no, we don't want to go in that direction, so let's stop that direction. But we need to set another direction. Otherwise, stagnation causes cancer. Right. Don't just fight where someone's going. Give a give a better direction. You need to don't just be against someone else's solution. We you need to come with come up with your own. Yeah, I mean, I remember my, when I was a combat team commander, I had over 110 soldiers, you know, and I had three key young lieutenants that were part of the, that they were my teeth of the, of the group because we're a combat organization.

9:43 And, and whenever they walk in, matter of fact, whenever anyone walked into my office, I said that door will always remain open whether or not you walk in or not. That's a different thing. Because if you walk in with an issue, you're going to bring 3 solutions because that shows me you've been proactive and you've thought about it. You haven't just come to dump it on my desk. And that's not respectful to me. And it's actually therefore not respectful to yourself because you're disempowering yourself. So walk into my office with an issue, have three solutions. Now sometimes they come in and and they go. So I've really scratched my head about this one. I've got no idea. So we'd sit down together and we'd work through it, or sometimes they'd throw their three options on the table and say, Yep, what I also know is this, this and this. And what I also have available is this. So let's come up with option 4.

10:24 So we'd do that, but quite regular, especially when we then deployed to Iraq into combat where time was of the essence that would come back and say situation is this, this and this recommend? I've got three options recommend A and also they'll get a message over the radio was do it because that I knew that that demonstrated to me that level of rapport and understanding and trust that that was that were competent, that demonstrated competence, capability and credibility. And and in that moment was like bang, yeah, go, go, go, go. And it it just meant that we had a really great quick decision. Cycle you, you admit when we spoke the other day you would mentioned seeing more people kind of operating from fear as opposed to love which you had mentioned earlier. So do is there an increase in that or is it always been people always operated that way and you're just noticing it more? Did you have any idea?

11:17 Well, if you if you follow a guy called, it used to be Doctor David Hawkins, he has a scale of consciousness between 0 and 1020 is the lowest vibrating emotion. That's shame, followed by guilt and apathy. When you when you hit around a vibration of about 100 to 150 where fear sits, you become extremely manipulatable. And this isn't just in David Hawkins has just quantified it in a scale. It's this has been known for a long time. When a person's in fear, confusion will often set in. The fear will actually remove the blood from your neocortex. So your rational reasoning mind draws it out of your brain. So your brain function becomes even more cloudy.

11:59 And so in that time you become more volatile and therefore any stability in moving forward, say, you know, solid direction, et cetera, it becomes very hit and miss. And not only that, you will often give away your power to other people that have, you know, other interests at at play. So, and we will do that. You know, you look at the last four years, a lot of people chose to do things which weren't morally what they wanted for normally, but because they needed to keep their job, they chose to do something that and if if the situation was different, they wouldn't have done it. So well. The question as soon as that happens is you then realize you're not making a medical decision. You're actually making a values values decision. And what you've demonstrated is your values change based on the external environment instead of coming to a place inside your life where you're so deeply connected that you are rooted in your values and they don't change to the environment. What what happens is your interaction with the environment changes, not the values themselves. And see that caused a lot of confusion, which you know, fear is perpetuated from and fear also causes division. And so therefore, if you look at communities, communities breakdown because of division.

13:20 I mean, I'm still struggling to understand back in 2000 and Australia, something happened with toilet paper and and I'm really not too sure what it was, but you couldn't for the life if you get toilet paper and people were in the shops arguing and fighting over toilet paper, which, you know, has so much iron to me. And I could go totally left fielding into the gutter about that, but I won't. But I still scratched my head because there was actually no issue with toilet paper and it never never became an issue except because the fear created it. And that's what fear does. Fear creates the thing, the movie that it's actually telling you to get away from. Now when you do deep work with a person, you help them go deep inside and go right in and and actually embrace the fear because it you can't push fear away it it locks down and then will service in many different ways, particularly behavioural patterns. But when you draw the actual emotion in, you sit in it. What happens is quite regularly fear is linked to a belief of safety and a lot of people believe that safety is the fundamental human condition.

14:19 It's not actually, but it's belonging which is the fundamental condition and people will give up their safety to belong. It's really fascinating. You look at any life threatening situations like where a family's involved and stuff and love which is linked to belonging, people will do fascinating things. A good friend of mine lost his life in a canyoning incident in Europe when his brother though he had he had three brothers and they were all doing a canyoning thing and a flash flood came through the Canyon. His brother got was getting swept away. He dived inside his brother and gave his own life, truly courageous thing. And now in the moment he wouldn't have thought it courageous. He just would have done it because of love and the sense of belonging for the family.

15:05 So fear is fear is a separative emotion, whereas love is a unifying emotion. And you know, Australia's a great example, but realistically, Australia's a microcosm of the globe. And, and I think America, you know, you had the Standing Rock thing. You've got, you've still got a lot of issues amongst your, you know, your past and your present and, and into your future. You know, just the last couple of weeks just demonstrated that. But you know, in Australia, one of the things is we still have a lot of guilt and shame sitting around about the last 200 years. Instead of realizing that in this moment, what we can do is we can go stop to that guilt and shame and we can build from a place of love and unity and we can create a future which is in that. But at the moment, what everyone is most people are trying to do, and I say most people because there's quite a few people actually, that there's a, there's an emergence of what I'm talking about that's happening.

16:00 And that is that we go, OK, we acknowledge the past. It's not that I don't acknowledge the past, but I'm not bringing the past into the present to actually create the future. What I'll do is I'll acknowledge the past, I'll learn from the past, which means that healing can happen. And I'll take the lesson of the past. And the lesson of the past is, is division creates pain in essence, in if you look at every narrative, every story, every history, division will always create pain. So obviously, if I'm to learn from that, then unifying is the way forward. That would be the lesson. How do I unify fear or love? It's love. And the ancient sages have always said there's only two emotions, fear and love, the psychologist would argue. But anyway, so so the point is we then creating this moment from love and we unify moving forward. We acknowledge everyone's differences because that's what gives beauty like a trees, even the same specie of trees are different.

16:49 But if you look and I'm looking out into a nature reserve at the moment and like there's so much going on out there, but it's all actually in harmony. It's not, it's not sustaining. There's no sustainability out there. It's actually in harmony because there's death and there's birth constantly happening in this cycle and it's and it's all done in in unison. Right. So, so nature's harmonious sustainability gets talked about in the picture when you add man and we kind of screw up the harmony and we need to take different actions to kind of save what we've just been destroying. But yeah, you know, I, I love all this talk of acting from fear and how it really shuts the brain down because you're we're seeing across the globe more and more democracies are are choosing more authoritarian leaders.

17:35 So that's to me that that populace is really living in fear. So they want to. It's almost like they want to be told what to do and feel safe. Does that make sense? Yeah. Total sense. I mean, one of the biggest reasons that was going on in the last, you know, few years is people actually fear death so much. Now there's a beautiful man that wrote in 1941 a book called Escape from Freedom. His name is Eric Fromm. He was a Jewish psychiatrist at the time, a German psychiatrist. I don't know who's Jewish, but he wrote about the rise of fascism when it was happening. And not only did he write about it, he gave you a a history of Western psychology dating way back to the Roman times as to how the psychology of the West had shifted at certain stages to come into a place where it was susceptible for and needed in in a place fascism to slot in and fill something. This is what we forget.

18:31 Something will always grow because there's a need. Now if it's an unconscious growth, then quite regularly there'll be a lot of collateral damage and cancer, etcetera. But if it's a conscious growth, it it doesn't have to be that way. It can actually be something completely beautiful and rich and harmonious. And that's actually the premise of what I refer to and what I teach is harmonic leadership. But it all starts with what an ancient Christian Mystic would say is I must, I must sanctify myself. I must purify myself before I'm illuminated to the divine. And that you know, we therefore with harmonic leadership, we start with purify myself as the leader, prepare myself before I prepare my organization, before I even think about preparing my community.

19:13 Because if I go into my community and I'm, I'm not pure, then I'm probably acting out of wound. And then I could be projecting that wound and that wound will have fear and and delays with it and it won't be coming from a place of love and unity. So I must purify myself first, make sure my intent is actually pure, and then I step out. And when I step out, I actually attract as opposed to push. And again, this is a David Hawkins concept of force versus power, power versus force. I don't force an issue, I empower an issue for it. And I do that through, I do do that through becoming a magnet, becoming magnetic. How do I become magnetic? What I actually do is tune into the frequency of what my intention is and my vision and I amp that. And when I say amp that it's the amplitude of the the way which actually gives you the power.

20:01 And when I focus on that in such a refined fashion, what I actually do to not my just my neurochemistry, but my whole being is I put out a magnetic field which therefore attracts. And so therefore I then unify a team. Unifying the team is the is the second stage now a unify A-Team which is aligned to my purified self. And because we're all aligned, when you get 2 waves, two sine waves or frequency waves, if they're the same frequency and the same amplitude and you put them together, that will double their amplitude. And so that then ends up in a exponential curve of power increase. When I've got a suite of people coming in, it's like who's you're in Massachusetts? Yeah, yes.

20:48 So do you guys play in Michigan at all unsafe footy or anything like that? Because Michigan's pretty big over there, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So in in New England, we got lots of smaller colleges. So none of them, none of them are really a sports powerhouse. So way more pros. So college football is bigger and plays like Michigan and where where, you know, college stadiums dwarf professional ones because there's so many people, so many alumni and there's there's there's no pro sports kind of competing with it. Yeah, got you. So just imagine you've got you've got people sitting at a bar. You got three people sitting at a bar and it's in Michigan and they're talking who's the best quarterback to play the game? And you got a Michigan person you got and you got two other people from from other other camps. Now, will they ever agree about who was the the best quarterback?

21:42 No. Exactly. Right. But then all of a sudden, a bunch of ice hockey players just crash into the pub. Yeah. What's immediately changed to the conversation? What sport they're talking about? Exactly. It's not what quarterbacks the best. The conversation is just elevated to a unifying question, which is what's the best sport? And so if they don't do that, then three blokes will be destroyed by, you know, the whole swamp of ice hockey fanatics which have just stormed in. So or they might actually all get along over an ice cold beer around a nice warm fire. We don't know. But the the point is what happens is, is we elevate the question to a unifying principle. And when we start to do that, that comes from vision that like there is not a leader of the country, not not a leader that I've found at the moment in, in democracies, which is actually painting a unifying division.

22:34 Sorry, a unifying, unifying vision. That was a Freudian slip, wasn't it? That they are all, they are all in. It's some form of dystopia, some form of negativity, some form of, you know, there's an apocalypse on the, on the the figure. But your slip is accurate, where they're presenting unifying division to get that one tribe unified in its divisiveness. Divisiveness. Exactly. So the, the, the point is that we, it's, it's possibly time that we start asking questions. And in my humble opinion, the, the, the biggest pandemic we had in the last four years was the lack of critical thinking.

23:14 And lack critical thinking goes out the window when we're in fear because our rational cognitive mind actually starts to slip. And not only that, when that happens, group think starts to come in, in that is linked to fear. So what what tends to happen is is you, you become divided. Not only that you'll become ostracized and you might simply be asking a question which is actually designed to unify, but the even the unifying question will get knocked on the head. I mentioned Eric Fromm. The thing he said in his book Escape from Freedom was the further a man moves away from his source, the more he will fight to have his freedom taken from him.

23:58 That's a pretty powerful statement. So the, the, the point that I'm, I'm suggesting to people at the moment, if you want to create something amazing for your not just your kids, but your grandkids, is it starts with you and it starts in love. It doesn't start from the womb, but in communities. What I teach them is, is a community that doesn't have conflict is actually destined to destruction. They'll destined to stagnate and then they'll destroy themselves because what happens is things get pushed under the carpet. It's not that you don't have conflict because conflict actually. And anger is an emotion. Anger's all about change. Anger's asking us to change. It's why it's a, a vocal emotion too. It's an energizing emotions because of because of what it's asking for.

24:45 And it will get locked jaw and grinding of teeth. It's all related to, to the suppression of anger. So it's not that you, you've got conflict or not, sorry if you, it's not that the conflict's a bad thing, it's that it's a symptom of other things. So a community or an organization that doesn't have a conflict resolution, that it's not just conflict resolution. What I, what I teach people is conflicts are simply symptoms of other things at play. And so by actually understanding this and going in and finding the causal issue, but not just finding the causal issue as leaders, so often people leaders will jump in and try and fix it. There's nothing to fix. Matter of fact, a vision which is actually built on trying to fix something or solve a problem is not going to grow too much. It's going to have a very short, like small expansion. And if you look at most science and other things at the moment, they're all about fixing something or solving a problem instead of creating something completely new that's revolutionary.

25:43 And that goes into the field of chaos, actually chaos theory. But come back to this point, it's like if I, if I as a leader, identify the, the issue and then go and solve it, is my team in power to do the same or will they always need me as the leader? So what I've been trying to explain to people is one of the, the, the principles of harmonic leadership is to understand, help your team identify the dysfunction and then empower your team with the systems to actually heal that wound and grow from that wound. And when you do that, all of a sudden you get what's it's, it's in, in a number of leadership circles, it's called cellular cellular leadership. You get a suite, suite of self-sustaining cells that are actually can self perpetuate.

26:32 And as long as the river holds the river is the bank and the floor of the river, which is your, your values and your vision and your direction. As long as you've got that set, then you've got all these things moving along at a very, very rapid rate. And that's when you can get exponential movement growth. And not only that, it will be as long as the right philosophy has been underpinned by everything, then what you'll get is you'll get a better outcome. You'll get a better, more attuned and organically developed outcome for that group so it will fit better as opposed to a projected or imposed. Again, all sorts of flashbacks to training I had like back in 2010, and it's something I help clients with now, but it was one of the first steps I did when working with a coach was was clarify my values.

27:19 And the first time I did the exercise, my top value was safety. And realizing that was rooted in fear. That's when I first heard of like, Oh my God, yeah, I'm rooted in fear. So really revalue that and changed my whole really world view by having that discovery that I was living from fear. But another thing we did, and I do love the the freedom forces force book and I I have that print out. It's right over there on my wall. But in in energy work in an energy coaching program I completed again back in 2010. There was a a way would visualize turning up your vibration and it literally was visualizing a volume knob. And if I'm feeling shame and we would like, oh, turn the volume down on that.

28:02 And if you want to feel authenticity, if you want to feel Lovejoy, picture that knob and turn it up as far as you can. And, and, and forget to people to really feel that we'd get him in a meditative state and visualize a knob and say turn up joy and now turn it down. And they would feel it just to prove to people that this is doing something to go, go take it all the way down to 0 or one and then go back up to like seven or eight. And, and like they would feel in their own bodies, in their minds, in their soul, this difference by visualizing a knob. But we are all way more in control of our energy, of our values, of our choices then we're ever taught. Unless someone lives in a community that you show up in and teaches about leadership and governance and and how to structure everything.

28:49 So yeah. And that's, that's a fascinating thing. Like we, there's, there is a, a large narrative at the moment, you know, we don't understand as human beings how powerful we are. And I completely agree with this and I understand it. The, the one of the issues though, is that, well, it's not too much of an issue because what it is, is, is, is a vision. Like it's it's way out there and people go, well, you know, how do I get there? When the students ready, the teacher will appear and the teacher can be in in more realities than not. The the teacher will show up in a very toxic way and we just don't see it as a teacher. This is comes back to this point about alchemism, chaos and alchemy like goes back to the ancient Hermetic belief system coming out of of ancient commit, which is the preceder of Egypt.

29:38 So the the point there is that instead of letting go of anything, it's to realize that if I let everything dissolve into its pure state, what will be birthed is the new reality. So there has to be a death for the birth to occur. It's like when I often ask, what's the what's the opposite of death? And most people will turn around and say life. No, it's not. Birth is the opposite of death. We just forget that in any moment, like we'll have a suite of, of deaths and birth. So I woke at 2:00 last night and I was meditating because I was awake and I, it was like this and a beautiful joy came over me because I realized I was meditating.

30:23 And, you know, in the past when I was, you know, in not a good way, I'd get annoyed at waking at that hour because I've got stuff to do today. So I'd be tired instead. Now it's like this realization I'm awake for a reason. So embrace the moment. So there's no, there's no fight. There's actually an embracing. It's not even a surrender. It's an embracing of that that actual moment. Funnily enough, I don't think I was awake for too much longer, but the this this alchemizing occurs when I completely allowed to dissolve like the phoenix dying in its own ashes and then it and then it's reborn. But what's more often than not, people don't realise and there's a lot of people in energetic healing spaces that I've worked with.

31:10 They'll come to me and they'll be scratching their head and they're saying, James, you know, I keep hitting a glass ceiling. And this vision of being infinitely powerful is just why? It's just, it's too far to to reach. Well, The thing is that doesn't mean to say it's the wrong vision, by the way. It's creating a void, and leaders create voids by placing visions which appear insurmountable. And that actually cracks a mindset. It's like Henry Ford when he invented or he didn't invent it, but his engineers invented the V8 engine. And that story is really quite powerful when he said he drew a schematic of what he wanted and his scientists said they can't do it. So he sacked his scientists. More engineers came in and said we can't do it, and he sacked them again until he found a group of people that could, could actually not only see his vision, but had the capability of building the bridge to actually achieve it. That's why we have the V8 engine there. And when we look at that, we go, OK, well, our, our forms of governance and governing at the moment is, is really, you know, quite regularly it's narcissistic. It's a go.

32:10 It gets very short term. They're looking for the election cycles in Australia. Realistically, even though we have a four term, four year period term in government, realistically you're looking at an election cycle of around 18 months. Now before they actually go on the the train of slightly slowly bringing in the nuances of, of saying I should be re elected and you go, you can get wrapped up in that and there's so much drama. And then then I asked the question or how does it affect your life? And they'll throw all these reasons at me. Now. The only reason why it affects their life is because they choose to allow it to. It doesn't actually affect my life. Cool. If you, if you want to go and, and say that stuff and, and do that, there's people have very short term memories nowadays and the I actually don't. I have quite a, a good memory and quite a a long term memory. So I don't need to be affected by that. And in this moment, I can go, I can, can, can go, right? Where am I?

33:06 Where do I want to be? And what's my first step in everything? They come back to this point about alchemizing. Alchemizing will require destruction of a paradigm always because the Einstein said it. You know, you can't solve the same problem at the level of the problem was actually created. It has to. He was talking. Talking alchemically. In essence. Einstein was an alchemist. Carl Jung was an alchemist, for crying out loud. I've got a beautiful book of Jung's here. It's like psychology and alchemy. Isaac Newton was an alchemist. He tasted mercury for 40 years of his life every morning and there was 1,000,000 parchments that was sold by his family in 1939.

33:49 Sorry, 1935, that we're very alchemistic. And the reason why they locked him up in the trunk and didn't let anyone know was because they didn't want his name tarnished. Because back then in the late 17th century, it was like still like when Isaac was born. I think it was about only a few years before, like a decade before, someone has still been burned at the stake for heresy. So you had to be very careful back then what you said. Well, funnily enough, what happened to a lot of people in the last four years is they got burned at the stake metaphorically. So, you know, we can say our times were different. Times are different. Well, actually, are they too much? And so the, the underlying principles remain the same. And that is, if we're, if we're to create from a place of love, then I have to let go of the paradigms which are fair and constructed by fear, which therefore means I have to go through my levels of denial because and I have to get uncomfortable.

34:41 And that discomfort is the wound festering and coming up. Now, as we've known from medicine times, you know, time immemorial, the, the medicine is actually deep in the wound and it's like trauma. The actual medicine is in the trauma because you can't completely heal from trauma unless you've, you've released the emotional attachment to the 1st century image within the mind, sight, sound, taste, touch and smell. And it's bonded at the subconscious level with actual emotion. And that emotion has to be let go of because then what can happen is the image just can sit, but then the context of the image can come. And what happens with context, meaning appears. And when I get meaning, I get the lesson and then I can evolve from the situation.

35:29 But what like what our hero worship of resilience is doing at the moment is it's saying like under the like a scientific definition of resilience is that it resilience is the ability for an object to take an impact and then rebound back to its its previous natural state. So if you then put that into like an analogy of the your psychology and you put into trauma, you've been impacted by something and then you've got to go back to the pre impact state, which means you've got to let go of the scar. And you even hear this in people's words, they'll say, I just wish it was the way it was. I just wish you were the person that you were before, etcetera, etcetera. So what they're asking you to do is remove anything that life was trying to teach you in that moment, which is saying life has no interaction with you.

36:17 You're in an isolated aspect of your environment, which we also know is not true. So when we let go of the concept of resilience, funnily enough, we also can then move into a place where we might actually be able to let go of what's called trauma, because trauma is simply where the psyche actually vacates the body because of the emotional suppression and stagnation which all energy work attempts to remove. Psychology attempts to in certain ways as well, but we know that talk therapy is only about 30% effective because it doesn't actually connect to the emotional stagnation which has occurred. And for the psyche. And where does psyche come from? The etymology of the word psyche in Greek is soul. So in essence the soul is not allowed to embody into our our place.

37:01 So if we want to come from a place of love, then I actually have to embody everything, which means I have to have let go of the old concept or paradigm which brought the, the perception of trauma in the first place. And I do that through the healing, which is necessary, letting go of the emotion and then the reframing of the situation. And in that reframing, the context provides the meaning. And then I can actually from that meaning embedded into the lesson, which then creates my future. And that then I move through what's called post traumatic growth. And I'm, I'm beyond post traumatic growth now because I have no identity whatsoever to and no need for that other stuff. It happened and I'm immensely grateful, but I don't have a need for it because there's no identifying with it. So I'm, I'm loving all this talk and how, how this all falls under kind of the harmonic leadership which you mentioned a couple of times.

37:50 So I know you have a program all all about that. Why? Why don't you tell me about that? Yeah, I've got a three month online program coming up in starting on the 14th of August Australian time. And the, the whole premise of that is, is at the moment, there are more and more people who are stepping up and they're going, there has to be another way. And I really actually want to learn from, I want to not only learn from love, but I want to lead from love. I want to understand how to be the better person. So not just for me, but for possibly my organization, my family, my whoever it is that they want to affect them within the world. And I want to do that in a different way in which, you know, challenges me to grow. It challenges me to be connected into whatever spiritual essence is that I actually hold. Whatever language that is, it's fine. Doesn't matter as long as you've got one. And if you know, you just harbour the psychological understanding of life.

38:41 It's just, you know, essence connecting to your true self. So it doesn't matter what it is, just as long as you've got the architecture. So and that the program will will deeply take you into an understanding of how your your leadership personality and what your wires and your wires are really, really important. Because if it's not connected to an inspiration coming from the word Inspiritus or, and from source, then you'll ebb and flow as a leader. And you, you won't be able to influence as many people as you want. You'll find that you'll get exhausted and you know, great ideas will, will come and go. They can't be grounded into reality, which is what I'm finding now is more and more people saying that enough, There's a line in the sand. I've got a great idea.

39:22 And I really, I'm, I really wanted to, to come into realization, to come into manifestation or creation. And so that's what harmonic leadership program shows you how to do it. It shows you how to identify not only the blocks within yourself, but those blocks are actually lessons just wanting to be learnt. And so it helps you learn the process to do that, which then is replicatable to you and the way you lead, which actually then empowers your team. So you empower your team to actually unify together to actually go and create something even bigger, which gets to the third phase of a harmonic leadership, which is amplifying your effect. And so in three months they take you right through this. There is a residential, but if anyone wants to come to Australia, that's awesome. It's, it's, it's only going to be for around 20 people. I'm keeping it, keeping it relatively small. But the actual, the, that's the residential. But the online program's open to anyone because it, there's an aspect of group stuff.

40:13 There's webinars quite regularly and there's and they also have the ability to come and have one-on-one sessions with me too. Awesome. So what? Where should people go to learn more about that program and about everything else that you're up to? Well, the best thing to do is just just connect with me. One of the easiest ways is to do it on Facebook. I'm just James Greenshields and make you very kindly putting the links on the podcast comments below. And I, you know, but the other one is to just send a message directly to me and say, hey, James, I'm interested and I'll set up a time to talk because one of the things that I've realised about programs is they don't necessarily fit everyone. And so I want for the best thing for the group.

40:54 And again, now as a leader, I'm thinking of the group within the within the actual program. The best thing for the group is that the program actually fits you. So we'll have a conversation. We'll just make sure it fits and and your objectives are commensurate to what the actual course will provide. And then, yeah, we'll lock in and we'll roll from there. So yeah, reach out, message me. Probably Facebook's the easiest. If you put my e-mail address in there, I don't mind people emailing me as well directly. And yeah, we can have a conversation. Well, we need to have conversations more often than we've had them recently or not so recently I should say. But it's it's always great to connect with you and there there's already so many synchronicities between what we're both doing it. It's really I I really find it personally just beyond interesting.

41:40 And we'll definitely get to keep talking even without being recorded. But James, thanks again for joining us, everybody listening. Thank you for joining us. You can visit realmenfeel.org. See the blog post for this episode. We'll have links to everything discussed, all the books and all the ways to connect with James. And you can check out his harmonic leadership program. Wherever you were discovering real men feel, please subscribe, follow, like, share this with someone that would get value from it as much as you did. Post a review, a comment, whatever you can do, wherever you're listening, you can always reach out to me at realmenfieldgmail.com. I'll always glad to hear from you and until next time, be good to yourself.