Leadership, Passion, and Purpose: From Compton to the White House with Darrell Williams

0:00 It's a way to horrify man is to say sit down, honey, we need to talk and then sit directly across from him and like, oh, no, yeah, that's panic. They want to run. Yeah, we need something else to do. Absolutely. Absolutely right. Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel. This is your host, author, coach and healer, Andy Grant. You can visit theandygrant.com to learn more about me. Real Men Feel reminds men that they human beings and have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men are not having, but that all men and the women who love them can benefit from. My guest today is Darryl Williams. Darryl is a member of the White House Communications Agency Hall of Fame. He is also the CEO of Alliance Seminars Coaching, a veteran owned faith-based organization focused on leadership, relationships and purpose.

0:45 Today he shares multiple Nuggets of what being a good leader truly entails, the importance of focusing on your strengths, and his belief that everyone has something they are great at. Darryl talks about his journey from Compton, CA to working at the White House and how much passion matters and how little comparison helps us. Let's do it. Hello Darryl, and welcome to Real. Men feel. Thank you, Andy. Glad to be here. You have had quite a remarkable career in leadership with 20 years in the Army, with working in the White House for multiple administrations. Is that the sort of future and career that you foresaw when you were a kid growing up? Absolutely not, that was not even a thought process. I'm not sure if I sent it in my bio, but I actually grew up in Compton, CA.

1:34 So though they saw the movie Boyz N the Hood, that's the era that I grew up in and my brothers and sister grew up in the era straight out of Compton and that was my background growing up and had no idea what the future would old. Was it a lot of synchronicities? Was it people reaching out to you? Like what? What got you from Compton to the White House? So really the first thing was, it was the military. I ran into a recruiter right after my junior year, leading into my senior year, and I didn't really know what I was going to do. Andy I I mean, he had thoughts of like every other 17 year old, like I'll figure it out, you know, and then I rent a recruiter and I didn't really want to talk to him, but he was just so compelling.

2:20 Andy I mean, he so he opened up his book, showed me some prices of what colleges cost. And I think the light bulb went on like, hey, your family cannot afford any of this. You need to figure this out right now. Take advantage of this. And he sold me on it, went home and told my parents, OK, I know what I'm going to do after high school. I'm going to join the military as AHR professional kind of what it is now. But at that time, it was an administrative specialist and that really just kind of launched me to a career that I had no idea what was ahead. Did you quickly develop a a skill and taste for leadership, or is that something that the military really developed over time for you?

3:01 So I think that I had a little bit of it because one thing I always tell people to speak at schools is, you know, first person you lead is yourself, right? Making good decisions, not following the crowd, determining that I'm going to be different, even if I'm the first in my family to do whatever. So I kind of had those things inside, but it definitely did not come out fully until I joined the military and I saw these cool guys with all this rink on their shoulder and their starch uniform, their shiny boots, And it was like, I want to be that. So again, if the first person you lead is yourself, then is is a kind of a, a, a myth about leadership that is really about handling other people. It really does start with self management. I think it does start with self because no matter what you do, even a self management, if you're not walking the walk and talking to talk yourself, you're just not going to be effective. People are not going to follow you, right? They're just going to wait you out because they don't see the sincerity in what you're doing.

4:01 But if you really are about, OK, I'm leading myself to make good decisions and now next you're my next priority. Like I need to take care of you. I'm not here from myself. Then people, you know, they're going to want to see evidence of that. And when they see like, OK, this guy is consistently taking care of us. He consistently putting us in for awards. He's standing up for us, OK? He's the real deal. And how did was it the military that that eventually like placed you in the White House? Was was that still in the military? It was because in the military there's kind of different routes you can go. 1 is that normal? Traditional assignment, right? The Fort Hoods, the Fort Bragg's, you know, those type of work.

4:46 Then there's what they call special assignments, right? And these are individuals that they give you a security clearance. They trust you to be able to again, be self motivated, do PT on your own. You're going to go to a place such as the Pentagon or other agencies and they really depend on you to be a self starter in a sense. I know you were in the White House for some pretty critical times. What are what are some of the biggest lessons you learned from from serving at such A at such a high point? I think one of the biggest things was have been there with to adjust to take care of your team when the president, vice president, first lady travel couple organization that support them where you had the White House staff where I keep the schedule Secret Service who protect them or White House military office, you know, providing the planes and the limos and things of that nature. But then there is our organization which was White House communications agency.

5:49 So I mean, every piece of equipment that the president or vice president touches come from our organization. So when he travels, our team would have to go out a week ahead of time for stateside trips and then two weeks ahead of time for overseas trips. And every time you went out to support, it was a different team, different mission. So I had to learn quickly, like, OK, Andy was on my last trips. Good. So I know Andy temperament, I know what he likes. And then I have to learn these other team leads because I was the second in charge next to a communications officer. So every trip you had like within a couple of days, you got to figure out everybody's temperament, their style, what are they, how do they like to be LED. There are strengths, there are areas that can be improved. And just doing that every single time, it really helped me out as a leader.

6:42 Now, I know from prior conversation that we've had that you bought, you've stressed that you serve the office and that no one of your position was was really political. We are at such a a time of rapid change at the federal government and you know a lot of career people that imagine might be like yourself are are being eliminated for cost cutting and things does does that raise any concerns for you it. Raises concerns, but as a certified life coach and I work with a lot of different leaders and employees, one thing I coached him to do is you can only control the thing that you could control, right? So if your environment is, you know, kind of unstable and you have concerns that, hey, you know, this may not work out, I start working on the individual.

7:28 What can you do? Right? Well, I'm thinking about changing roles. OK, where did that start? Right? What does your resume look like now? What do you think it needs to look like? How do we need to tailor that toward whatever industry you want to jump to interview skilled once the last time you interviewed for a job, right? What can we do to get that? So my big focus with people is helping them understand you can only control what you could control. So you might as well do the best that you can with that, OK? And at times, when everything feels out of control, is it just, you know, look for that one step that you can take? You absolutely have to do that right, because there's always another step you can take. There's always another move you can make and then also talk to people and and let them know they can't walk this life by yourself, right?

8:19 Everybody has a mentor and accountability partner. Sometimes you may not recognize those roles, but I find it there's always people around you that have your best interests at heart. They care about you. Andy the person. No, not Andy the podcast guests, I mean host. And you got to find in no time lean on those type of people because sometimes your strengths can be zapped and you got to find a way to get refilled. You know, I like how you, you said that that everybody does have a mentor and accountability partner. They just might not be called that. So yeah, so 'cause I would, but you said it like, wow, that's not true. But then as you explained, like, Oh yeah, that that I appreciate that they don't have to be have a certification or been assigned to you from some program.

9:04 They just naturally in your life. Absolutely. And it's amazing, All right, When I ask people questions because I never give them the answer, I help them figure it out on their own. When I start asking, like, for example, when's the last time your life was chaotic? And then they'll quickly bring up my moment. And then it's like, tell me about that moment. OK, got it. Tell me some of the things you did to get through that moment. And as they're describing it, Andy, they start realizing, wait a minute, my neighbor pitched in a lot. Hey, the local community pitched in a lot. People came and babysitted for us. And we felt like, right, we didn't have any energy to take care of the, you know, the newborn anymore. And then they find out they had this whole village there, that it might not have been called a village, but the people were there. They were in place.

9:53 So just like that can happen for a family, it can also happen for an individual. As you were rising up to the ranks compared to now, were there the same kind of misconceptions about leadership or have they changed over time? Oh, they have definitely changed over time. When I joined the military and the the drill sergeants were king and queen, you didn't question the authority, you just kept your mouth closed and did what you had to do. And then when you got out of basic training and ART and went to your normal units, it was the same thing, right? Whatever the leader says, you just do it. And then midway through my career, you started seeing a different caliber of soldier come in, right?

10:33 They asked questions. They were already educated. And what I found was the older supervisors that I work with, they looked at that as insubordination. How dare? Andy asked me, why am I doing this? You're doing it because I told you to do it. But I found out that the people were changing. So it wasn't that they didn't want to do it. They just wanted to know why. So I had to easily adapt my style to the new people that I was leading. And I would have more meetings that I would used to have and say, hey, tomorrow we're going to do this. Here's why we're doing it. Here's the consequences if we don't do this right.

11:15 Here's all the people that we will let down if we won't develop this new skill and master this new piece of equipment that we have to, you know, bring into the workspace. Andy, once they understood it, they were like Goddess Harm Williams and makes sense. What can I do to help? And then it was up to me to say, well, you're pretty good and electronic, so why don't you take that manual home tonight, see if you can read up on some things that then when we come tomorrow, it's not just me teaching this, but I want everybody's input. And that's when you started finding out the leadership style of just do it, do it, do it.

11:56 It was good for that time and it's good for certain scenarios. But bringing in that team concept of, hey, Andy, what do you picked up as we were looking at this equipment? What did you notice, right? What are some way do you think we can employ this and getting in that team concept and that team buy in. It wasn't just me making them do it, but we all had a invested interest in it. So it sounds like it was a lot of your own resilience and adaptability. The this wasn't like the army realized, oh, when sundown new orders we could we realizing people are changing. We need to change. So this was your own experience. How how supported is that?

12:36 Did you get sent? Did people notice you and go out of that? Darrell's doing things a little different and weird. I'm not sure if this is going to work or did you just trust your own instincts? So I just trust my own instincts. And again, I started leaning on those mentors that I had and said, hey, here's what I'm noticing. Here's the difference in the team that I'm leading. And those mentors were fantastic because Andy, they were forward thinkers. Like they challenged me and said, hey, what if the military is changing and you're in the middle of this change? How can you get ahead of it? How can you take advantage of it, right? How can you take what you learned? And then when you go to your next organization, when they have the standard we call leadership development programs, LDP, right? What if you volunteered and LED some of these sessions and brought in some of these new tools and new skills? And that's really challenged me.

13:26 Instead of just saying we're they're old timers and they're not going to get it. It was like, hey, let me tell you what I'm noticing and what are you noticing A lot of those old timers like, you know what, I did go off with a couple of these young whipper sempers thinking that they were, you know, not paying attention and and realizing like they were just inquisitive. So the more we develop the space for people to talk about it honestly instead of, you know, carrying this macho image of no matter what, you know, the Army's not going to change me. No, no, no, no. The Army still needs you. And those young leaders need to hear your experience. All they want to know is instead of you attacking the hill, it was why did you attack the hill?

14:10 What would you have done if the hill was a little more slippery? Right? And what did you learn from attacking the hill that you wish you would have known? So it was just a different style of leadership, but the same leadership was still required. Right. And then the the end result, the goals that weren't changing, it was just how are you going to get there? The most efficient way it seems. Absolutely cool. Now I know in your in your current role as a mentor and as a coach, I've seen you talk about maximizing, maximizing your call often Can can you tell me what what that means to you? Absolutely. A lot of times I used to go to the schools and talk and I would ask to most speakers do this.

14:50 You know, what do you want to do when you grow up or you know, what do you see yourself doing? But I would change it based on a lot of times they don't know. So you're in the stuck with all this empty space. So I changed it Andy, to more of and I do this with the adults. What do you find yourself good at? What comes natural to you that makes you feel really good? And when people start saying stuff, Andy, like, man, when I get, you know, a hammer or tools in my hand, I just feel like I could create anything like, OK, hang on to that thought. Get really wrong with that. Somebody else says, man, I love just taking the computer apart and then trying to figure out how to put it back together. OK, hold that thought. What about you, Mayor used to hang out in the front yard with my dad, watching him take a car apart and then him explain it to me what each piece of.

15:40 So basically what I would do is challenge their experiences and say, why do you think that memory came right away? It didn't even you didn't even hesitate. And what they found out Andy was that's what they were passionate about. So I try to help people identify their passion right away. And then from there, it's like, Clayton, how do we pivot to your past? So what are some things, what are some tools, what are some training that you can do to kind of get to that level? And what are common blocks that people struggle with to identify their their passions or their purpose? Oh, wow. One of the biggest things, Andy, is they compare themselves to other.

16:22 It's like me and Andy, you know, he said on his podcast and you know, he got, you know, 1000 shows in three months. Like, I don't know if I can do that. Well, Andy has a different approach. So instead of trying to copy Andy's approach, what do you think your approach should be, right? What topics do you want to talk about? How do you want your podcasts to be different versus trying to copy somebody else? So I think the biggest thing is how many people realize, don't compare yourself to others. Learn from others, admire how they do it right. And then when you talk to the Andy's of the world as you're trying to walk into this new industry, you know, ask the Andy of the world, Hey, what did you learn in the beginning when you started doing podcasting? What were some of your early challenges? All right.

17:12 How did you have to pivot, you know, from guests that just, you know, tricked you and got on there to talk about their book versus what they really were supposed to talk about, which is real men? All right, I'm going to, I'm going to put this on you, my friend. What did you learn? What did what? What did you discover as as you're initially going out into the speaking world? Though one of the biggest things I had to find out was you got to tell your own story. You got to find. So that's one thing in front of all different speakers. I got ready to start and I'm studying all the different speakers, looking at their topics and it's like, oh, I can talk about that. Oh, I could talk about that. But then you realize if you do talk about that, from what perspective are you going to talk about it? So instead of trying to mimic a Les Brown or a John Maxwell, even though I, I truly love leadership, I found that I had to talk about leadership from my own experience. And the more I did that, even going back to Compton where people would say, how did you not join a gang, right? How did you not get caught up in the selling drugs? And then I just started talking about the leadership around me or like, I had a couple of guys around me that we didn't want to do that type of stuff, right?

18:25 So I had to make a conscious decision. And it's, it's, it's funny. It's almost like when God will come to you and say, Hey, you know, got this plan for you, you make some fast bucks. And then I would kind of be witty with it. And I'll say something like, well, you know, I, I get that. I appreciate that, But you know what, I'm going to go a different route, right? The same energy and the passion that you have for selling that. Let me see if I can use that energy in a different way. And they were like, oh, wow, that's all right, young buck. OK, I, I, I respect that. So it wasn't me putting them down or trying to like, oh, taboo. It's like, no, no, no, no. You have a plan. Your plan is different. But guess what?

19:05 You still have motivation. You still have drive, right? You still have intellect. You're just using it in a way that you don't realize can be used in a total different opposite way, in more of a positive manner. So instead of me, you know, talking down all the ground, I just kind of flip the script and told him, you know, I like your ingenuity. I'm going to see if I can use that in a different way. So it's like, it sounds like you were already quite a mentor at age 17. I was trying because that's one thing you learned growing up in Compton, like you don't want to be a smart aleck. You want to be a know it all right. So I found really one thing I would do is I would always kind of study people and find out what they were good.

19:50 I like his great story had a guy that was a one of the leaders of the gangsters who would come to class every now and then and when he came to class, especially our math class, Andy, the guy was genius. He sit in the back. This is back in the day. So we write on the chalkboard and the teacher already has the you know, the the answer and basic or the formula. We had to figure out the answer and I got all my paper out. Andy, I'm trying to figure this out, you know, 2X times, 3X is this carry this? And then the guy that's the gangster was like, oh, X = 5, just like that. No writing, no anything, Andy. And I'm still doing it. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, X = 5.

20:32 I do you should like totally come to class and make all of us look bad. And he was like, no, no, I know what you're trying to do. I'm not coming to class. It's not Martin. I'm just coming because I don't have anything to do today. But just trying to find that one thing about that person that they're good at and just complimenting them and reassuring them. Like a man, you got a lot going on for you when not if. But man, whenever you get a chance to change that thing around and you're going to be just amazing. And people would feel like, wow, that's the first person that didn't talk about me because I was in the game. Does everybody have something that they're good at?

21:15 Absolutely, absolutely. I've, I've talked to people, Andy, that says real. You don't know my childhood, right? My dad left my mom. My mom raised all three of us. I didn't have a true role model. OK, maybe you didn't have the role model that you thought you needed to have, but did you play sports? Oh, yeah. That's what saved me. Like, really? How coach was this coach with that? He taught us discipline. He taught us ethics and all this good stuff. Sportsmanship, I think. But you were a pretty good athlete. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was good. I was decent. Like. So there's something tangible about you being a great athlete and you not giving your mom the problem that you could have gave her.

22:02 Why didn't you do that? Oh, no. There's no way I could do that to my mom. She sacrificed much. I had to, you know, do things the different way. I had to grow up faster than I wanted. So guess what? That tells me that you have the ability to adjust, the ability to pivot, and the ability to deal with circumstances that most people will crumble under. Once you ask them those questions and they see it for themselves, they come back and say, you know what, I am good at something. Irla there are skills today that that everybody really needs to develop regardless of what their their calling might be. I do think so, Andy, and I think one of them has a lot of different terms. Some people call it emotional intelligence, some people call it soft skills.

22:49 But either way, the ability, right, to just pay attention to people, right? Sometimes as leaders, one of the biggest mistakes we've made is we try to make mini me's right. I'm gonna make, you know, a young Andy. It's like, yeah, that's fine. But the world already has an Andy Grant, right? How about you just be Andrew, right? And whatever the side of you, just let that grow into what it needs to be. And I think the ability to just listen to people hear what they're saying, hear what they're not saying, right? And then help guide them to whatever it is that you know they're looking for. Do you have any daily habits, routines or rituals that have really helped you kind of kind of stay on your path that? Was a great question, Andy, for me, I'm big into music, so when I wake up in the morning, try not to wake up my wife too much. But I always play a lot of positive type music, more up tempo because I'm not a coffee drinker. People like, Oh my gosh, how could you be in the army 20 years and not drink coffee and not smoke? I'm like because I just wanted self motivation, right? I wanted to be able to do things a little bit more naturally. So that way it wasn't controlling me, but I could control it though.

24:12 For me it's, you know, morning devotion, although I might not do it every night or every morning, but you know, I do do something definitely playing positive music in the morning just to get, you know, spirits moving and you know, up tempo. I'm hype. I'm ready to tackle the day and I and I think what you said, it's good. Everybody could benefit from some type of morning routine regardless of how big or how small it is. And the key is what you said. It's just doing it consistently. What is your definition of success? Wow, great question. So for me, I believe to honestly that success is you maximizing your potential, right to do something great, not assigned to a dollar figure, but if a dollar figure happens out of that, that's OK too.

25:08 But I just think maximizing your potential to do great things, to me that's successful. And I say that when I think about number twins about to graduate. I'm looking at all these teachers, right? My kids, there are certain teachers, they just love, they're passionate about them. The average world, they look at a teacher and say they're not successful, they're just teaching. But the way they inspire, the way they allow these kids to grow and feel like they can conquer the world, to me, that is success because you maximize your potential, which is to be able to develop young minds, to be able to motivate people and to have them feel confident in themselves. To me, that's success.

25:55 Is there one thing that you wish more men knew? Yes, the biggest thing that I wish more men knew is you don't have to go it alone. Gosh, Andy, so many of us feel like, oh man, if I call her Andy, he's going to take him a wimp. If I call her Andy, he's going to think I'm less of a man. I'm not going to call her Andy. I'm just going to figure this out. And then you don't realize Andy, man went through the same problem you went through last year. And now Andy can't wait to help somebody else and say, hey, let me let me tell you about teenage daughters, right, man, They're trying to stretch and find themselves and run faster than they have to. But here's what I learned raising my teenage daughter, right?

26:43 I had to give her a little space, right? I had to take her on more dates. And we just talked. It's not me just drilling into her, but asking her questions. And you know, why do you feel that way? You know, what are some of your friends, what some of the challenge that you're having and giving them that space? And we can get that from talking to other men. There's no rule book out there that says men have to figure out on their own or their failures. It's just not true. The truth of the matter is we're stronger together. And the more men we surround ourselves with that we can have that honest conversation and just say, hey, I'm really going through something. Can we talk next week?

27:24 Absolutely. Because men are different from women, right? They can just, you know, get on the phone or whatever and just start the conversation. For men, sometimes we just need to go out to dinner. We need to go baby on the basketball court. We're not really playing, but we're really talking while we're playing, you know, those type of things. And I just think most men just need to understand you don't have to tackle every challenge by yourself. Yeah, and and 1 tip of this has been shared in in past multiple shows, but yeah, men are it's easier for us to get in the flow of our heart and the flow of open communication when we're doing something else. So yeah, be it, be it sports, be it a puzzle, be it just out walking. But you know, the the way to horrify man is to say sit down, honey, we need to talk and then sit directly across from him and like, Oh no, yeah, that's panic. They want to run.

28:10 Yeah, we need something else to do then. We can relax. What moment in your career are you most proud of? Man, very good question. I think for me it was when my mentees would come back to me and say, hey, I just want to let you know that I got promoted. I just want you to know that I was selected for promotion. I just want you to know that instead of getting out because things are tough, I reenlisted and I got the assignment that I won. It was just seeing the joy and the success from others. To me, that was way more important than any promotion that I ever received, any award that I ever received. It was just those other people realizing that I wasn't just blowing smoke right?

29:10 Like no, you really are good, like you really are great. And if you continue to path keep finding the right people to surround yourself with, you got to surprise yourself. And for those individual and then for them, they've been found me Andy, like, you know, in military you move around a lot and sometimes it's hard to find people. Like those individuals would find me. And the first thing they would say is you probably don't Remember Me, but I'm the guy that used to fall out of formation when we were running. And you would always encourage me just just, you know, don't walk, you know, just follow behind and just build up your indoors that way. Like, and I will remember those individuals like yeah, I remember you. Like tell them what's going on and just to hear their stories. You know, they're family men now. They're doing great.

29:57 Couple of them. They got ranked way even higher than when I retired. And I just told them I'm proud of them because, you know, my job was never to keep you below me, just like any, you know, real man. My job is I want you to go further than me, and then I want you to go grab somebody like I grabbed you. And then that's how we reciprocate that cycle of building better men. You know, that is something that I certainly did not grow up hearing from leaders that yeah, I'm leading you and I want you to surpass me if I feel like you're almost really talking about how you talked so highly about your your daughter's teachers. Like so you were always teaching more than again, traditional Army leadership as as I would, you know, my distorted view of it. No, you're exactly right.

30:46 And I think as men, and that's the other thing we can realize that it's OK for us to evolve. A lot of time when I find Andy is men mimic was they saw when they were growing up, right. So if I didn't have a father in her home, whatever that closest thing was, negative or positive, I mimic that because I believe that's how you do it. It's not until we get into these non traditional life patterns that I call it where you're introduced to a coach, right, you're introduced to that wise neighbor that just comes and just hey, you know, come cut my grass, and then while you're cutting his grass, he's talking to you there for you question. Then you're like, man, I get a lot out of just the money from that guy.

31:32 Like he drops a lot of Wizards, right? So I think just being around other men and then us realizing that we can evolve. We're not meant to just be the same. That's why life situation always happened to us. I think instead of us, Andy, looking at what was me or what's next, I think the better question we should ask ourselves as men is what am I supposed to learn from this? And then the second question is what lessons can I remember so that I can share with somebody else that may have a similar situation?

32:13 Yeah, those are powerful questions, and they can be scary to ask and sit with, you know, if you really think it's all up to you. But if you have your team, your accountability, your support, your mentors, it gives it a much safer place to explore. And what am I missing? What am I, what should I be learning? What I Why does the same thing keep happening to me? So true, so true. And a lot of times I told me they're like, I heard what you were saying, but I'm still in the same thing for the last year. I'm like, So what if they're the lesson there that you're skipping over? You're looking for something big, and it's really something small. And then when they go back and they think about it and it's like, Oh my gosh, that's it. And they figured out on their own, they realize the answer was there.

32:57 The whole time they just kept telling themselves, Andy, no, it can't be that. That's too small. No, that's really it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's another trope of of being a guy. Like I I was always thinking like each time I had some business venture or lunched a book, whatever. Like this is it. This is the, this is the home run. And it, it just never was. And finally, in like meditation, I got like, what's wrong with a career full of double s and triples? Like you don't need a home. You don't need nothing but home runs to, to, to be a success in whatever you're doing. So yeah, though those small things, can they, they do matter. Love that. That is so true. Again, we have to question, OK, here's the environment I grew up in and yes, the person that I looked up to in the neighborhood, they would get home runs all the time, but I'm just not built to get home runs. That's just not me.

33:45 So I'm more of a base dealer or I'm more of a defensive player. Again, find out what you're good at, maximize that and don't worry about trying to be the next, you know, this person or that person. Just be you. Awesome. Errol, what's the best way for people to find out all the things that you're up to? Thinking to reach me on Facebook. Lion Seminars Coaching. They can find me on a website, liveseminars.org. Also on Instagram, Alliance Seminars, coaching as well. And we, we were joking before we really started the show that there's been a long time coming. We've had multiple starts and stops. I held space. I knew this would happen. And I, I really glad that you you made the time.

34:26 And yeah, I'm really, I don't even know what to say. Like I can, I can sense your pride in helping others kind of discover their own pride. And that that's really cool. Like I said, I you have a lot of aspects of leadership that just aren't that common. And I, I thank you for doing all that you do. No, Andy, thank you for being patient with me because again, when I saw your show Tired, I was like, I want to be on that show. I got. It's like when you have a certain type of things happen in your life, it's like you can't just go to the grave with this stuff. It's like, man, I need to share this with others. I don't know who it'll help, even if it's just one person. And that's why I love, love, love what you're doing because there's some men that may not get what there's need to get in the traditional way, but man, they come across your podcast and they go, man, let's do it. Andy Grant, man, I like the topics he talks about. I like to do that.

35:21 He's brain. And then they start looking forward to who's Andy going to talk to next. So what you're doing is really life changing for men and I just want to encourage you to keep doing what you're. Doing, Oh yeah, I've stopped. And then the life says, no, you can't keep stopping. So onward and upward. But yeah, I appreciate making time for us and appreciate everyone that's joined us and listening. Thanks for joining us, everyone. Please visit realmanfield.org and see the blog post for this episode, which will have all the various links and resources discussed. If you're not living your life to the fullest, I invite you to book a free Clarity call with me. We'll explore what you want, what's in your way, and what you can do about it. Visit theandygrant.com, talk and until next time, be good to yourself.