Life After A Suicide Attempt | Sharing Lived Experiences

0:01 Greetings, and welcome to real men. Feel, this is your host author, coach, and Taylor, and e-grant. You can learn more about me by visiting. The integrand.com real men. Feel is here to remind men that they are human beings and they have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men aren't having. But that all men can benefit from now before we get going today, I want to warn everyone that we will be discussing suicide attempts. If you are in crisis right now, don't listen get Help text or call 988 and the United States, there's help available 24 hours a day for other countries. Please visit find a helpline.com for options near you. So, again, text or call 988 or visit find a helpline. All one word.com, the goal of this episode is that our shared experiences as suicide, attempt survivors, offers, hope and encouragement to others, perhaps to you and raises awareness about the importance of mental, health and suicide. Prevention, the World Health Organization estimates that 800,000 people die by Suicide each year. And that number is surely an underreported number in 2020 alone.

1:11 It is estimated at one point two million people made an attempt to end their life. What isn't talked about enough in my mind is that millions of people go on to live a full healthy lives after making it attempt. My guest today is her bmac Herbie was born and raised in the South Bronx of New York where he saw A drug abuse and gang violence in experienced family. Trauma that caused him to oppression as a child teenager and adult this. Let her be to become a functional alcoholic for over 11 years due to an inability to express his emotions. Effectively Herbie was unaware of the signs of suicide ideation which led him to attempting suicide multiple times. After his last attempt and years of healing, he decided not to keep his suicide attempts to himself Herbies. Now using his story and experience to advocate for suicide.

1:58 Prevention awareness, teach the signs Of suicide ideation and normalizing asking for help. Welcome to real men feel Herbie. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Andy. And I really want to take a moment to Appreciate and give respect for the fact that we are both alive. We both tried to make that not be true. I often joke about when I tell my stories that I was I was a slow learner and it took me multiple you know, so-called failed attempts to realize. All right? Maybe I'm supposed to be here, maybe I'm supposed to be alive. So I wonder it was that, was that a part of your thinking, why why you kept making attempts to do?

2:38 But like, what, why multiple I was hurt. I was hurt during my, my journey, I was going through so many emotions and as a man, they never really changed me how to express those emotions, right? Anyways, he expressed it. If you you know, drink or if you, you know, do something extreme like exercising like way too much or just not even talking about your feelings. So during this time, I was hurting, I didn't know how to express myself. I didn't know how to Act like a human was more like a robot and I was just feeling numb and I just wanted the Pain to End. So it was in your experience is primarily an emotional pain, was there physical pain as well? Like what was your experience of that you're trying to end? Emotional.

3:31 Yeah, more emotional, just the things of of not experiencing love right, from from people that I look up to, and I didn't know how to love myself. I'm looking for love in all the wrong places, and not having that moment to love myself. I was just like, wood, what am I doing here? And, before we get to further, I want to ask you. And, and this, if this is different then, and now please Make it clear. But how do you define a suicide attempts? How do I defined it aside for help? That's it. When I was when I was in my teens and 20s and making multiple attempts, I only counted it.

4:15 Like I had made an attempt if I ended up in the hospital. Like, if I try, if I, if no one found me, if I didn't like hurt myself enough to matter, I don't even count that. So that get, that's kind of what I meant. Like, would 10. Know you all know, what did you have to do to consider yourself that? Like, wow, I made an attempt on my life. What what what? What was there? A barrier to cross to make that true for you at all? Yes, it was a it was multiple barriers a, my journey. I every attempt I tried I counted and that was just trying to you the extreme to make the pain in, right? I don't want to give anybody any ideas, but doing the extreme to just say, I want this hurt the end.

5:00 I want to stop feeling empty inside, I want to stop feeling Not love and not loving myself. I just want I just want to stop. Yeah, that's my experience. When a lot of people I talk to. I didn't necessarily want to die. I wanted what I was experiencing to stop. Yes yes. For sure. If you want I can give my story if that's up to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Share. Share what you want to share right now? Sure sure appreciate it. So I'm just going to give a trigger warning for those. Waking up to the sound of someone, being it at my door, as I opened the door. I realized this, my ex-girlfriend, she's like, herpes. Why do you look like that?

5:40 Why do you smell like that? Hello. Are you going to answer me the whole time? I'm trying to decide if I should tell her the truth because every male told me I can't be weak. I can't be vulnerable. I have to man up She these words, I love you. I'm here for you. So I decided to tell the truth. This is the third day in a row. I attempted suicide and honestly would have been a fourth of you didn't come knocking and soon as she starts crying. She hands me her phone and tells me to call the suicide prevention Lifeline number. So I did has I'm on the phone. I'm speaking to the counselor she said sir on a scale of one to ten, how do you feel today? As I replied - tend to be honest with you, this is the first time in my life. I don't trust myself by myself.

6:23 So she recommended check myself and said Behavior Health Center. So I did as I'm never getting evaluated by a couple of nurses. In one of the male nurses, stopped me and said, look, I don't know if you believe in God or not, but I've been doing this for years. You don't belong here. God's going to use you to share your story and touch out the lives at the moment. I had no idea what he's talking about. To be honest with you. I just wanted my pillow my blanket and cry. No. No one thinks about attempting suicide to let alone. Being in a place like this few moments passed by, I'm getting evaluated by the psychiatrist. He just glances that. My phallus is take this, as something said Herbie, this doesn't feel right speak up. It doesn't feel right? So I did take what, what am I taking this for? He glances that my Fallon says, oh, you're from the Bronx. I know people from the Bronx have a low IQ. I can't really read and write that. Well, I just want to put this out there. When people do lady was that, you please tell them labels are made for jars.

7:17 Not people. Since he didn't want to communicate with me nor care to. I went right back to that same male. Nurses said, look man I don't trust that guy. Is there anything I can do to empower my mental health? He said. Yeah, try journaler, I'm gonna give you a notepad and a pen. Oh well a pencil. So I'm drawing in a realizing, the trigger of my depression was my parents. The fact that they didn't teach me how to love myself. Here I am dating. Someone else hoping that they could teach me how to love myself. It sounds ridiculous every time I think about it. As I kept drilling, I realize I was a functioning alcoholic here. I am drinking to numb my pain.

7:58 Instead of understanding my page, a few days passed by have to see another psychiatrist. She's like, Herbie, why are you not taking the prescription? We provide for you, we believe you're bipolar one. And I was like, I was first time I heard it. The first psychiatrist never said anything, just told me to take this, so she gives me a couple of tests and after hour or two, I passed everything. She's like, okay. Everything's fine. You don't seem like you have bipolar, you just seem like you're depressed. So do me a favor. I'm going to release you, but you have to go seek therapy. And I'm going to be honest with you. I was broke so therapy. I was like, I can't afford that. That guy home. I typed in how to love yourself on cou, cou discovered something called positive affirmations.

8:42 Never heard of it a day in my life, but since I was in dire needs, I was like, oh well. Imma Be extreme with the I put sticky notes everywhere from the mirror to the bathroom, to my bedroom, to my refrigerator, to even in my car. A few days passed by some of my friends found out that I was having suicidal ideation and I attempted, so they want their cheer me up by taking me out since my nickname was anything possible for the fact that I love Hennessy so much. But I discovered something called Boundaries, look, bro. I love you. I can't go out with you because when I start drinking, I turned into that Incredible Hulk, and I can't control that, man. They didn't get it, but they respected. So, I kept journaling, and as I started journaling, I discovered something called forgiveness.

9:32 You see I did forget, my parents were not teaching me how to love myself due to the fact of they lost a daughter who died of brain cancer. I lost a sister who died of brain cancer so they was depressed. Then I had to forgive myself for trying to damage my body and trying to end my life because I was depressed. And I also started doing something. I've never done before, I looked in the mirror, so I can tell myself, you are loved. You are smart. You can't change the world only if you just believe. So, I got the first marker, I found, and I wrote on my mirror, as big as I can just believe But those who are ever wondering about that ex-girlfriend, I came knocking on my door, she's not my wife. She blessed me with two amazing kids. You see?

10:21 I shared this story every time because I personally went from hopelessness to happiness During this journey, I know it's very challenging and it can be difficult but I just want to provide hope for others. Thank you for allowing. Just need to share a little part of my story. Awesome. And thank you for your bravery and willingness to do so. You know, I firmly believe that the way we prevent suicide is by talking about suicide because of, so my attempts were began in my early teens and the only place I heard anyone else, talk about feeling suicidal was in a mental hospital, which made it seem even crazier that I'm just, you know, nobody thinks this way and unfortunately, most people have the thought And something I learned early on was that, you know well it's just a thought and a thought can be changed and they can take effort. That's why positive affirmations work. In my experience.

11:14 You it gives you a new thought to focus on and repeat and even if you keep coming back to a shitty old thought time and time again, you just means you're so used to it. So tape that make that effort. But I've written two books on affirmations and I love them too because they're, yeah, they're free. Yes, you everyone. You can have a mirror and doing them with more work. Like I remember when I first started like, Ah, I think was like, 2006. And I tried to like I couldn't even hold eye contact with myself in a mirror. I was so disgusted with myself and Dad discovering self-love like, what does that mean? That now then would they were foreign words to me. So, right there with you, man. And and the Forgiveness aspect to. So, my attempts were spread over multiple years.

11:57 And I remember, I did this holotropic breathwork experience where you kind of really go in this altered state and this inner wisdom and healer takes over. / and I was bawling and sobbing at the beauty of life and that I try to thrown it away. And after it, it was the first time I realized like, wow, I've survived attempted murder and it was from me. So, I, again, that forgiveness you talk about is Sookie. I don't get talked about enough. So, you know, one of the first things I find most beneficial, if you've made an attempt to end your life and you're alive first like, forgive yourself for whatever brought you there, forgive yourself for that decision, and be grateful that you survived it. And I've met some people that made an attempt. It didn't work, and they like, huh, you know, they see the light and praise God, I'm alive and they never really met. They're on the path.

12:43 They like their feel good from then on. But some of you are saying you did three days in a row so you didn't have that experience of like, yep, didn't work. That means I'm spoiled and I was the same way again. I was this really so I was good in school but I was stupid as hell when it came to life. Yeah. I kept having to test it and like, am I really supposed to be here an hour? Supposed to be here. And finally, for me, it wasn't until I had, I had tried to kill myself using a means that had already not worked. So, I'm doing the same thing over the definition of insanity, right? I'm doing the same thing over expecting a different result and I find like there's got to be a reason, like why? So for me I found out and I know you got there to being of service somehow.

13:26 Sharing your pain, makes your pain better and can help others as well. Yeah, you know for myself man it was so much that you you talked about. Myself, the Forgiveness part was the hardest thing. Great. I didn't know how to forgive not to say. I'm a bitter person. It was just like the expectations that you have as a kid is like man. I'm gonna grow up and going to go to achieve all these dreams and expectations are so high. I'm going to reach it all by the age of like 25 and then when you turn 25 you're like wait wait wait, life is a way harder than what I thought it would be and I had to learn.

14:11 What does that look like? And every day I struggle with that struggle with it, for a minimum of three years. And then, one day, I got inspired, I got a picture of myself, it's in my office, I'm like three years old, and I had to write a love letter to forgive that three-year-old, right? Like, hey, I'm sorry for everything that you've been through. Sorry that you didn't receive the love that you wanted to as a child. I'm sorry for everything. And if you feel like nobody was there, I Apologize for that and I read that letter, I said on that letter probably no, two to six months. And then I went back into like that kid mindset. And I wrote a letter saying thank you. Thank you for for being there now. And all of that letter was just allow me to forgive everything that I had experience.

15:04 Allowed me to forgive the journey that I went through. And then I think you let everything. Thank you for being there. Now, we're going to grow up to be the man that we can be, and we will be and we could do it together, not just helped me so much and I didn't want to share my story. Not because I'm embarrassed or anything like that. I don't want to share my story. Due to the fact of, you know, it's something taboo. We don't, we don't talk about it, you know, in my community, in the black community, we don't talk about attempts. We are talk about mental health, you say, you want to end your life, then they W, as you said, crazy. Quote, unquote. And I didn't, obviously, I don't want anybody to pick on me, right?

15:50 Because mentally, I'm recovering from a temp, and I don't know if I'm strong enough to to, to take on that. And after the experience of dealing with that, that psychiatrists who is no longer in the field. Think thankfully, he had his license. Revoked, I really just sat there, and I was just like, you know what? Let me just go and go go, and just look at the numbers of attempts, how many people actually survived. And then when I saw the That the sad numbers of how many people die every year. I got to help. I gotta say something just because I can potentially save one person.

16:32 Maybe they might just say, he'll wait, there's hope. And that's when I started sharing my stories once I went. And I saw the numbers I was just like, oh my like this is, this is a real thing. I didn't know that, you know, Yeah, I'm always amazed that often a suicide attempt refer to called. It's a cry for help. And it said I've heard that used like as a relative. I sort of like it's just a cry for help yet if a building is on fire and I'm fire fire. That's a cry for help. And people pay attention that they don't make a, that's just fire. But but for somehow a Swiss m is again, there's this all this stigma and shame built into it. And and I've always thought that if there's kind of You know, we're all one energy and whatever religion, you are, typically the most people recognize that there's some sort of business sense of Oneness. And there's this, there's this soul of a bond that we're all in this together and somehow, one person opting out intentionally trying to end their life.

17:29 I think it just disrupts us so much. It's beyond words, even as the sense of like, wait a minute, you you can't do that. We're in this together was supposed to get, we're on the same team, what's happening? And I always thought that. Kind of how suicide can seem to like spread through a community. It's that seeing someone take that action, it almost like makes everyone go inside and go. Well if if they went that dark, am I that dark as well? Like am I just one bad circumstance away from doing that myself and I can when I think it's so important to talk about it because the more you talk about him realize, oh you feel that same way, do you feel that same? Oh, you went through this last year? Like oh, we are all together. All right, but it's when when we get ice, Isolated and withdrawn only to ourselves that's when that's when we're at our weakest.

18:15 Yes, exactly. It's one of the things that I want to normalize the conversation. Let's break the stigma, right? If it's a crime, I think people look at it, like, oh, it's a cry for help because they can't see it. Like, as you said in an example of the house, burning or the building burning people can see it. So let's go, let's help us help. But they can't see it because it's a mental thing, right? It's mentally. It's not something that's displayed. Like, if I break my arm, you can see that. But you can't see that on the inside. I'm broken or I feel broken or I have a broken heart or I feel like I'm worthy. Not worthy. But I'm I've hopelessness right. And that people don't get it was like, oh well, I'm having a bad day too and it's like, it's not a bad day that I'm having.

19:00 I'm having a moment where I don't know if I'm going to make it to tomorrow in some people may be overwhelmed by that. Yeah, yeah. Own anyone like well, we'll do what do you mean? You know, and they made walk away. Some people may call 911 and I think if we normalize it we can actually teach others. Oh hey. There's a simple number that you can call 988, if you're uncomfortable, they have a text line as well. You can text it out it. So just just doing that. I can see it a lot especially ever since the the whole world changes is 20/20. Now, people understand when someone is struggling mentally like, oh man, I'm on lockdown, I can't leave the house and it's like that's how we feel mentally.

19:45 Please help us understand and where to go. And what not? Do you think if? If what you did after your last attempt to make that your last attempt, could you have done those things earlier, or did you need the multiple attempts? Like I did to get to make it something sink in for you? I need it. I need the last time. I needed that. Because that last attempt I lasted time I needed that to experience what I'm capable of, right? I always thought that. Yeah, I'm a smart guy, you know, I can I can handle everything but I always thought that I didn't have the strength to, to heal.

20:34 I needed that. I actually needed that that psychiatrist be honest with you. He was like, you know, if I was Batman he was like my Joker. I volunteered myself in that and I place and, you know, when you volunteer 72 hours, you're supposed to be there and he had kept me for five days because I refuse to take whatever he provided for me and in. And that gave me a voice. Like, oh, man, I my whole life, I never realized, I had a voice to stand up for myself in that type of setting. it was a switch you know it was like wait, I came Here for help. I'm I need a service.

21:18 This guy is not providing my services like very similar. If we go to the restaurant, if you go get a car and you know, you have to go get an oil change but you know, they providing a service and he wasn't doing that. And I just had enough courage to stand up and say I'm going to. I'm going to Stand My Ground if you're not gonna help me down. I'm gonna figure this out. I have resources in this hospital. Let me use them as much as I can, so I could build up me. Why? Now I understand why I was hurting right? The if I were to did it early, I don't think I would understand. It was a whole like different mindset. It was just a hate to say it, like a switch that just happened. And I'm thankful for it though because it became I became the man that I am today.

22:02 So how long has it been since your last attempt? Well, seven years baby, seven years going on eight. I could say that I could say that would have found out and I've often tell people that, if you've ever seriously contemplated suicide that thought is always looking for another moment of weakness. It will it will show up again. But so do you have those thoughts returned for? You know, I created a Wellness Plan. Right. You know, my wife, she knows me. We've been knowing each other since teenagers so she knows me very well. I have a plan that I do things to monitor my mental health, so she knows like the other night.

22:48 She noticed that I've been off lately, you know, work managing, you know, how it is trying to figure everything out doing doing the dad life husband. I'm just I'm just not balanced and we sat down and she's like, hey, everything's Good, I noticed this and that, you know, let's pretty much review your Wellness Plan and I was just like, yeah, you know, I'm just unbalanced. I'm working way too much. It's like this. It's leaning. Let's figure out how can I take the pressure off and get back to being who I am? And once I did that, you know, we cleared it all up and down back to normal. So I just have a Wellness Plan that I always keep with. I change it sometimes 12 months based off my schedule but yeah that helps out so much. I wonder if are there any specific you Recommend of ways to keep hope, and healing alive for you. Yeah, so in the Wellness Plan, I have certain days, I reach out to my support system, right?

23:42 I have multiple people, that, that is in my support system because there's multiple settings. For example, I have my sister, we talked about the parenting life the marriage life. Then I have my brother, we will talk about, not only parenting, but like sports and whatnot. And then I have other people that I just like my mom, I can just talk Talk to and just try to work on that relationship that we never had. So I would use that on certain days like, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Monday, Tuesday, maybe Saturday. So I reached out to her support system, then also I reach out to, for myself exercising, right? Certainly days, I would exercise in something simple as walking around for 15 minutes journaling, but I have two young kids.

24:26 So the journaling part doesn't happen, but I use my phone. And I do the voice note. So that's my journal. And then at night based off of the time I do it, I listened to it and reflect. So I have things planned out and then I have like one day out of the week whether it's the Saturday. I would try something new right because of the pattern. You can easily get bored. So I'll try something new. Hey Baby, Let's go rollerblading. I don't know how to roller skate at all but let's try it out, you know? Or hey, let's go to the zoo or let's go to the beach. So I always do every month of But I have a where I have a customized. Herbie, what's the best part about being alive? Being able to.

25:15 Connect with others. Showing them that they're not alone. During that time, I didn't I didn't feel like I can connect with others. I feel like I could I didn't know how to communicate with others. Now. I feel like I do, I can understand and then also just being a dad. I never thought that was ever going to happen now. It's like, you know, I have to, you know, I have a two-year-old and five-year-old. I'm just like, man. I think this is what life is about. Yeah, like man I'm teaching them my, for example, my five-year-old, you mentioned breathing techniques earlier I told her breathing techniques for when she has her emotional swings and now she's teaching it to her little brother. So that is amazing.

26:05 I don't think you can put a price on that. Yeah. What specifically might you recommend or give advice around for someone that has made an attempt has survived and is alone? So the first thing I did after, and I'm glad you asked that. So after I left the place and I did all this positive affirmations, it's you still feel like would it would it Go? The first thing I did was I called the suicide hotline number and ask for recommendations. Hey. Is there any support systems besides my friends that get it right?

26:48 So is there anything that I can do? So I will always I'd say. Call call The Suicide Prevention, Lifeline number or you know, 988 and just ask them or you can just Google it. Ask them. Is there any local peer to peer meetings, connect with people? So you don't feel like you're by yourself sometimes. If you, I feel like personally after my attempt, my friends didn't understand. They couldn't they couldn't relate. They couldn't relate. They didn't know. Hey I feel like there's a just looking at, as you said earlier, he just needs some help, he be. All right, once I was able to connect with a couple people it felt great but then even during that Yeah, leave it at that.

27:36 Leave that that. And and any tips for someone that that finds a friend or a loved one has made an attempt, you're the first person on scene and you see that something has happened, what would you recommend they do? I would recommend them to stay there by their side, talk to them. Don't talk down at them, don't talk over them, just talk to meet them where they are at and this accent, hey, if you need some help, I'm here to guide you. You don't have to have all the answers but you some resources, whether it's in your community or whether you use the, the number nine eight eight to help you out. You don't have to be their therapist which is be there to support them and just let them know. I hear you.

28:25 I can't resonate but how can I assist you? In preparation of our conversation. I really sat down and thought like what obvious lived experience, how can I succinctly put it in something? And so I made a list of seven items and right now, I feel like we've hit all of them, but I just want to go through them and make sure. But first was, so again, I've survived an attempt on my life. What do I do? And first seek help and it could be the, the hotline, they could be calling a friend, it could be answering the door when your girlfriend's banging on it, right? Whatever it is but get help. The second was practice self-care, which as you said self-love, we if we don't love ourselves, there's nothing someone else can do to fill that hole. That's what it took me.

29:12 Probably decades to really fully get an owner. Like nobody's responsible for making us happy except us. Yeah. So and it can be skate. Like I used to I used to shun responsibility because I thought responsibility meant Blaine. But when I can claim, no, I'm responsible for my happiness. I'm responsible for my joy. That that gives me Freedom now, but I never thought it did. You know, my mind? Tell me that doesn't make sense but my experience of it does make sense. So do you find anything like that to be true for you? Oh, yes, for sure. You know, I just want to chime in you said, ask for help. You know what helped me out with that because I was always told, like if you ask for, help is a sign of weakness. So now I refrain my mindset.

30:00 Let me use my resource. Right. It's essentially the same thing. But when I say, let me use my resources, it seems more positive. Right? We all have resources, 80, if you, if I know, I need a ride across town and I can't make it because my car broke down, I'm going to call you, hey, I'm going to be right. That is a resource that I'm using. Is it not the essentially, the same thing except for help? So, once I was able to, to reframe my mind, stop saying, oh, this is a sign of weakness, has no, let me use my resource because it's a sign of strength. That means I have not only a good, Art system but I have someone that I can rely on that has my back. Yeah, I often say the bravest thing you can do is ask for help. So like the weakest thing we can do is not do something because we're afraid of other people, think about it like, that, that is weakness.

30:47 But strength is like, you know, I don't care what anyone might say because it's in, it's all are negative. Self-talk like I've never had someone come up and go, wow into your week, you tried to die. That's never happened in my life, but it happened a lot in my head. So the third item I had was was find Hope which has been mentioned throughout this, you know, in your children, in your relationship and your own forgiveness and loving of yourself. There's I think there's hope is just automatically built into all those things. And the fourth thing I had written down was connect with others, which again you mentioned, having that support network friends, trusted people, it can be strangers, it can be peers while I quit, but there's it's all out there, which when we're alone in our own Darkness. We don't think any of these things are possible, but but they are.

31:33 If it was get involved in meaningful activities, you know. Again, we're responsible for finding the purpose and meaning in our lives. Like I don't believe no one's here by accident. You're not a mistake. I'm not a mistake, we can feel Hopeless and helpless, but we truly aren't ever and always was be kind to yourself. Like you talked about it, a switch being hit but again for both of us it took multiple time for that switch to stay off or on, we want to look at it. But uh and always recommend, you know, look out that negative self-talk journaling has been a great tool for me as well but also celebrate every bit of success. Like those first few days after attempt. Like the the first time, the first time, I realize I was going through like hard circumstances and I didn't just want to die.

32:23 I was like, hey I'm growing. Wow. You know, so celebrate just the fact I remember I was a full-fledged adult before I got that beauty could make me cry. Like I look at a sunrise and people would beaut artwork people say, oh, I moved to tears Mike really? I thought you just meant was depressed, I thought tears made suicide, how can you? Nippy positive tears. I can't. Yes. How can you cry of Joy? Yeah, so I finally experience that I was like, I was 32 but for right. Wow, I'm crying. And I'm not sad. This is great. So in this celebration of discovering that that I'm wrong, I used to believe that life sucks, then you die. And every experience that proves that to be false. I'm like, thank God.

33:07 I was wrong. And the final thing is recovery, takes time. So again, we talked about the switch and when you get it, it seems like that, but that that overnight success of enjoying your life, doesn't happen overnight. Yes, I'm glad you said that I just want to chime in on that. The best thing that for myself was to get off of social media right now, we into the era of so people won't buy our own. They seem like success overnight. I had to get off of social media and just do some healing, right? Things was the time, I felt over And I bought a coloring book and sat down and just start coloring, right? Let me just focus on this.

33:49 I don't want to thank. I just want to just just Xin out there, right? And and then, when you said activities, I realized that the power of play helps. Sometimes we get so work work, work work, work, work. And then you get overwhelmed, you going down the rabbit hole at night that you shouldn't go down and I started scheduling playing basketball. I was good at it. I was really good at it and And I'm not doing that right, but when I'm doing that, when I'm playing basketball or any activity, you're not thinking about man, you're not thinking about any stress. You're just reacting and having fun like the power of play, you know. I want to be an advocate for that.

34:29 I know we get older we look at playing as a child's game but I think as adults we have to do it. Yeah. So II love amusement parks and roller coasters and years ago, hit me like in the front room. Looks like woo and I'm like hey I when I was in line I was Crust how I can't worry about, I can't, I can't run the bull shit through my mind when I'm on in a Thrill Ride. Like it, there's nothing to puts me in the moment more than front roller roller coaster. I can't sit through Google accounts. Yeah, it's like, all right, all these things that people try to medicate or say, something's broken at your, your chemically imbalanced like, but it can't be true because circumstances? Change and my mood and my thoughts change. As well.

35:14 So, for what that's worth. But I was thought, likely, you know, I'd love to take, you know, all the teenagers that are in some mental hospital. Hey, let's all go. Get on a roller coaster and see if that just changes your attitude, for least that one moment. And then, you know, oh, I can feel better if they know. I actually have good feelings and not bad feeling. Yeah, I agree. Cool. So, so, Herbie, I know you also have a podcast. So, tell me a little bit about that. Yes, I have to just believe, show the disabilities show. It's something that I decided to know. As the conversations of mental health, right? Not only normalized but provide certain resources for people. We are all different, everyone Hills different. And on that journey, I just, I just took it upon myself to not only Advocate about sharing my attempt to sharing things that work for me. But also having what I like to call the pros because there's a stigma of going to seek therapy, going to go see a psychiatrist, you feel like oh they're going to put some sort of like magic trick and they're not like that.

36:13 I Have, I'm blessed. I would say that first, but I have a good amount of friends that are psychiatrist counselors, social workers and just to have those that relationship, I want people to normalize seeking therapy. I don't want you to say, oh, I'm going to see a psychiatrist and I'm crazy. No, it's just sometimes you just need an unbiased opinion and yeah, so it's starting back up in March, I'm excited. I took it took a break. I always tell people when it comes to Mental Health. Times you have to do what's best for you. And put on your own oxygen mask and like, was overwhelming. The new dad was was kicking my tail.

36:53 That's the nicest way. I've got to say it, but now, as I mentioned earlier, I feel balanced. So we get back on track with that beautiful. Beautiful Herbie. Is there anything else you'd like to share or a resource? A bit of experience, anything, but not know. I don't think we know that. A lot of it, to be honest, I really want to ask you a couple of questions. Is that okay with you? Sure I know this is your show and people by you just like, give out all their information, but I want to know how was it for you on the road of recovery after your last attempt. It was bumpy. It, let's see.

37:35 I always felt this distorted sense of relief after an attempt and it took me a long time to not realize that that that relief was that I sought help like, for me when I was not willing to disclose how painful I felt how much how much Darkness was inside of me. Making an attempt was at least an action and there was a relief. Like, I've always felt better after it but again it took me the slow learning thing. I'd like, wait a minute. Can I skip the attempt and just get help. And then when I was 22 years old, I put myself into a mental hospital for just a long weekend because I want to die, but I thought that was the first time I did make an attempt.

38:16 I went straight to professional help and I was like, ah, there talk about celebrating all things like I'm like, I'm like an adult I've grown up. This is Using, but but still like that was after college, you know, I would go up and down, I would get help. I would, I would think I was fine and invincible and stop the support and then life will kind of catch up and I'd be backed out of entually. Like I would go years doing great. And even I start, you know, I wrote books and I started speaking and I've already said it today like if you were with seriously thought about suicide, that thought will always be there. So, Came back for me, I see, I forget that, like, I, I'm supposed to know better, I should have seen this coming. So I get silent, the shame starts again and I, I call I go dark.

39:05 I stopped doing the things that feel good. I stopped helping other people. I just focus on everything that sucks and the more you focus on what sucks. All you see is what sucks that's? So again, I've had to relearn my lessons multiple times and that's okay, that's like nothing wrong with that. They didn't mean they were they were wrong it just meant I need to learn them again and it's never was The repeating that I did was never the same exact same thing. It was, you know, deeper levels because again, is you I've trauma going back to birth, some of it. I didn't, I did not remember till I was in my 20s. So there's always more of the layer to unpack.

39:45 This more to be healed as more to bring out of the dark and into the light and all those, all those sayings that I used to think we're such nonsense until I experienced them like, oh yeah, this is true for that thing. And yeah, I got to love myself, more and positive affirmations. And mirror work and meditation, and exercise and sharing what's going on for people. And yeah, the, the more authentic and honest and for me public, I can be, it helps me, and it helps others. I just want to let you know. I'm glad that you're still here. Yeah, I am too. And I wasn't always like I after all the times I've had that I'm pissed. This did not work.

40:28 I remember being Furious and that's okay. Like I was so sure that I was right about everything sucking. I was, I was resistant to letting that that worldview go. No. Yeah, for sure. It's the same thing. It's like a roller coaster of emotions. I was extremely angry after, you know, my at the, my second attempt I was like, an of still. Like I was so frustrated. And then, even with the third one, I was angry. And to be honest, like, I don't even know why, like, she came over it. She had no reason, I don't know how, but she was there and during that I was just like so pissed.

41:12 And once I was in the Behavior Health Center, once I was journaling, I was just like, okay. I started journaling out of anger. And then the anger went to, oh my goodness, I'm crying. Oh my goodness, I read. What is going on? Like I want a drink, right? Because I'm triggered and drinking post to help. Calm me down and from there, I don't know. I just I was just, I was just more. Accepting to the universe. I like, okay, things happen for a reason. You always hear that saying and I was just like, well, what is the reason? What is the reason? And then when I got attacked by the psychiatrist, I was running it. And I was just like, I think this the reason to find a voice but not only find a voice, hey, you are here, like, you probably didn't know your healer start sharing your stories and just very similar to you.

42:05 Like, you know, wants to speak at opportunities happen and I'm on stage and you know, you have people hate. Thank you. You're so. It was great. Hey, can I reach out to you? How can I find you? And you know one of the stories I one of the events I was out of shared my story and I had a mom just randomly cried and was like thank you. You know, my daughter is in the audience and she had attempt and I didn't know how to tell her, I didn't know how to. Like, I didn't know what to do but your story Navigate it like the point that you said 27 points and then not only that the door to realize there was hope and she's like, you know, like how could I like repay you at all atoms?

42:51 Just like, just just be there for her and just acknowledge her, that's it. And it is just like, you know, grown man crying. Like okay, I think I found it. Yeah, yeah. I see you said earlier to like, oh, it's long as I can help one person. If I say one life, it's worth it and I'll never forget, I still clearly, remember the first time a stranger Came up to me and said that I saved their life and I was like, you must be mistaken this game. But you know what? You resist that like that me and it's and I'm blessed. Like, I've lost count of how many times that's happened and again, establish confirms, right? It is blessing and even our native experiences, when you can take responsibility for what to do after them with them, that's empowered. Yes.

43:34 Yes. There's a. I'm so glad we got connected. Yeah, and I get to we're going to we're going to talk again and more often and, you know, but until then Herbie, what's the best way for people to learn more about you to connect with, you just go to her, be mac.com from there. You can connect with me if you want. I'm also, she meteor at and it's pretty easy to find me at her Pee Mak. So I want social media. If you put in every Mac, you find me. Cool. So I really Thank you for your time, for your authenticity, for your sharing her. Be everyone listening to us. I thank you. I, thank you for being here. I, thank you for being alive. Really, from the bottom of my heart. Every single one of you makes a bigger difference in the world than you realize Please visit real men, feel that org to see the blog post for this episode.

44:29 We'll have links to any of the resources discussed more. The things we sharing will be there in text if that helps you out, wherever discovering real, mindfield subscribe, like, comment. Share this with someone that you think needs a little bit of Hope inspiration, right now, you can always reach out to me at real men. Feel at gmail.com, I'm always glad to hear from you. And until next time, Choose life.