Men & Sex | Fear in Our Sexual Relationships with Women

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Hello and welcome to real men.
Feel, this is your host author

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coach and healer and e-grant.
Please visit the Andy Grant.com

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to learn more about mwah, real
men.

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Feel exist to have conversations
that most men aren't having, but

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that all men can benefit from we
remind men that they are human

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and have the right to experience
and express all of their

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emotions.
My returning guest today is

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October twice dr.
Weiss is a psychotherapist and

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award-winning author speaker and
teacher his decade-long work on

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understanding.
Ending, the internal lives of

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men culminated with his recently
published bestseller.

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Hidden in plain sight, how many
spheres of women shape, their

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Intimate Relationships, dr.
Weiss is a regular contributor

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to the psychology today.
Website and offers workshops

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nationally about Psychotherapy
with men and helping men and

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women.
Understand each other.

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He practices Psychotherapy
online from an island in Mid

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Coast of Maine, where he lives
with his wife and dog, welcome

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to the show again, avram.
Thank you.

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It's good to be back.
I have to comment on your

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introduction.
They'll think of the We live in

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where you have to make a
declarative statement that men

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are human beings and entitled to
whatever they feel.

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It's extraordinary that we have
to say that.

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Well, what do I want to say?
It's it.

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I don't think I have to say.
I feel like his invitation to

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just remind people because men
have been taught that they

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aren't.
I know that?

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So yeah.
Say it that way.

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But that, that, we, that that's
not taken for granted.

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Yeah, right.
That needs to be said, is sort

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of stunning.
Yeah.

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Yeah, it's sad.
It's a because it is said, but

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without it.
What would I say?

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I'm not either.
I understand why you're saying

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it.
As I heard it.

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I was like, Wow.
And they say no violence allowed

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here.
Like really we need to say that

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like okay.
Yeah.

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So you were first on a couple of
months ago.

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Yeah.
And and you were very eager to

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return to real men feel and
About sex.

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Yes.
So what's the urgency?

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What's up with men and sex these
days?

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Well I think there's some really
interesting stuff going on.

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So just on a surface level I'm
seeing a lot of men with low

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sexual desire.
And that is part of what

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actually sort of got me on the
path of writing about men's

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fears of women because as I
started looking into it, it's

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not it's it's completely
contextual, it's completely

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relationship dependent.
So it's not that men are not

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feeling sexual, it's that
they're feeling inhibited or

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suppressed in their sexuality
with their Partners, their

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feeling afraid, and so go ahead.
So it's not just I have a low

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desire for sex and it's not just
I below desirable for sex with

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my current partner.
Yeah.

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It's because there's a reason
behind it.

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Absolutely.
So they're you know they're

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online looking at other women
and they're walking down the

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street turned on.
It's not that something's

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broken.
It's that something is

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disconnected in the couple and
Esther perel who's a well-known

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sex therapist has started to
write about men and sexuality

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and one of the things she's
writing about from a woman's

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perspective is how women are.
Didn't feel that.

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Men are not expressing Desire
with them but rather asking for

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permission or validation and so
I'm getting increasingly

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interested in how much sex for
men is often a form of

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reassurance and validation and
can be almost to varying

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degrees, but sometimes
completely divorced from their

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own pleasure.
That makes me think of like one

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of the oldest sitcom tropes is
you know the men begging for sex

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and the women that just say no
and I have a headache and all

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these just just battle Joe's
going back to like Lucille Ball

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and stuff.
Yep.

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Yep.
So it's one of the things

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leading, it's not, it's not
about desires, not about

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passionate about pleasure, it's
a chore that scene is one of the

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things that that we could, you
know, the paths into this is to

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ask ourselves the question.
Why are men so preoccupied with

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women's orgasms?
So women report to us, That men

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are almost desperately
preoccupied with knowing whether

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or not their partner climax.
Now, it could be that, we're

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just really nice and
considerate, but I don't think

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that explains the whole thing
because the women report that it

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has a sense of urgency so much,
so that they report that it's

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sometimes, intrusive and that
they will fake an orgasm to shut

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us up.
In other words, essentially, you

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know, that's like, alright,
alright.

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Alright already.
Yes, it was.

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He's fine.
Yeah, that's what it's always

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struck me.
Has it's a sense of competition

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that did I win sex?
Get everybody did everybody come

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oh good I win.
Yeah I think competition and

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validation that if that if my I
think we teach men that their

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job as a man is to please their
partner and so sex becomes sort

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of like the final exam you know,
sex becomes the check up.

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Whether about your masculinity I
remember reading a book.

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So I'm been married 25 years and
I came here for this was a book

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as a gift, but early.
So, 20 or 25 years ago, I read

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something and it talked about
sexual desire and in

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relationships, and it was always
that the person with the lowest

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sexual desire would drive the
sexual relationship.

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Although it may seem the other
way around, I think you're

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right.
Yeah.

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And most people are again, based
on popular culture, it would

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seem.
It's always kind of assuming the

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woman has the lowest sex drive
but you're hearing that that's

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that's just simply not the case.
I don't think that stick that

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may be that may be true of 20
year old women and 30 year old

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women but as definitely not true
of middle-aged and older women

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because and I think it only
looks true of you.

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Younger women because they're
still afraid they're still.

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There still have all these
messages about if their sexual,

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it means they're a slut and, you
know, loose and all that then

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around middle-aged women, often
get over that and sort of

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reclaim their sexuality, which
they've been not really

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embracing their whole lives, and
they can be really powerful

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sexually.
While men, unfortunately are

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often sort of shrinking, that is
the poor choice of words

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sexually Although actually was a
good choice of words.

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And what, what's problem?
Whether a lot of things are

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problematic.
But the obvious thing that's

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problematic is that I don't
think men are experiencing a

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whole lot of pleasure in sex.
I think they're experiencing a

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lot of anxiety and insecurity
and the urgency.

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What women mistake for libido?
I think is more insecurity and

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the need for reassurance, but
the the Other less obvious part

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of it.
Is that if you go to the grocery

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store and you pull one of the
women's romantic novels off the

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shelf that genre is known in the
book world as bodice Rippers and

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it is full of stories of women.
Women's erotica is full of

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stories of women being taken by
men and the men of those stories

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are decisive.
They're not, they're not raping

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the women, but they're a Furtive
and decisive and in charge.

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And so here you have men afraid
to put their own pleasure out

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there and women wanting more
than anything for men to put

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their pleasure and their needs
out there.

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And so they often don't meet And
I can see that this clash and

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what there's some with me to
movement, and, and no means

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knowing that, like I said, guys,
oh, I'm not, I'm not allowed to

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be forceful.
I, if decisive, I'll be accused

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of something, or if you know,
are you seeing that?

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Is that, I think that's
absolutely true.

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But I want to be clear that what
I'm talking about precedes, all

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that, so that just made it worse
and we think now that that's the

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cause but men have been afraid
of women.

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For as long as there, have been
men and women.

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I did an interview on a North
Orthodox podcast, and the guy

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made a really interesting point.
He started to get it about men's

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fears and he said, you know, he
said it's making me think about

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the garden that the Garden of
Eden and Adam and Eve.

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He said, you know, we focus a
lot on white Eve, ate the apple.

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But then what, if you think
about, why did Adam eat the

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apple?
When Eve told them to Adam, knew

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that they'd be thrown out of the
garden?

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And he said, maybe Adam was more
afraid of Eve than he was of

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God.
I said that the last time you

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were here it was you.
Yeah.

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Oh man, I'm sorry to repeat it.
I didn't either, I'm the

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Orthodox podcast know, I wish
you'd cut me off.

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I would hear I have repeated
that story many times.

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I really it really hit home with
me because you know, of course

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if you're if you're very
religious, you think God wrote

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the Bible but I think people
wrote the Bible.

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So it's interesting.
As you look through history of

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these stories of men brought
down by their inability.

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Ability to reduce to resist the
seduction of a woman.

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So Samson, Ulysses, Adam,
Hercules, you know, all of

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these, you know, Ulysses to this
the VM Sirens its story after

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Story and all these cultures
have images of in Spanish that

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call it vagina dentata.
Which means vagina with teeth

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and many, many cultures, have an
icon of a vagina with teeth.

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Now what's the message in that?
Well, sex with a woman intimacy

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with a woman risks emasculation
in a very literal way. so, it's

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amazing that If it, if it goes
back that far.

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Yeah.
Is it just how it is?

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Like, what can we do about it?
If it's that ingrained?

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I think it's that's how it is as
long as we're all brought up in

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a patriarchal culture because
men are most people, it is

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beginning to change somewhat,
but I don't know how much it

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really changes yet, most people
as babies are there first.

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And really, only intimate
relationship is with a woman

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inside of their mother or a
caregiver.

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It's most likely to be a woman.
And so, all our eggs are in one

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basket, and so, we become highly
attuned.

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So, as an infant survival,
depends in human, infants, have

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no ability.
We can't even feed ourselves.

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So we're highly attuned to our
caregivers because our lives

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depend on them liking us enough
to take care of us and so we

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begin life highly sensitized to
any indication that we have

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misstep with them and we carry
it right through.

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And you look at the literature
on when couples argue, they hook

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them up to physiological
measures and interestingly men

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get more distressed.
During relationship conflict and

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it takes them longer to come
back to Baseline.

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Is it all in the physiology and
not expressed like do men, cover

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up that fist distress or is it
obvious?

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Yeah, the physiology the reason
they measure measure of

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physiologically is the body,
don't lie, so ya know that it's

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absolutely and, you know, and so
if you say to women do you know

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that your partner is really even
more upset than you are.

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When you argue, they would be
like, no way.

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He could care less, he doesn't
need me at all, it's completely

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hidden from women, they have no
idea.

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Yeah.
So, how does one help a man get

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get over this, this sense of
competition.

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The sense of inadequacy that the
sense of trying to prove

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something via sex.
Well, I think this is where

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things like your show come in,
because I think it really is men

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learning how to talk with other
men, because I think it is

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intimidating for men to start
out talking to women and it is

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much easier for men to start out
talking about themselves with

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Two other men.
And so there are a variety of

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ways that can happen that can
happen through a show like this.

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That can happen in a book group,
that can happen in a lot of

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different ways.
And one of the things I did in

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the book, which I'm really happy
with.

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Is, there's a chapter for men
about how to find other men who

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might like, to talk with them
about this stuff and how to get

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together and form a group of
guys, who, what?

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Because every man says to me,
I'm interested in having closer

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relationship with other guys,
but none of them are, I'm like,

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well, let me That's not
mathematically possible, right?

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That, that make any sense and so
I think it's just that they

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don't know.
They all are afraid to reach

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out.
I just had this conversation

228
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,800
with somebody yesterday they
said well how do I do that?

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I said at easy all you have to
do is take any situation that

230
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you normally respond on this
level and just drop it down one

231
00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:48,400
level just just be slightly more
personal or ask a question that

232
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slightly more personal and you
were very quickly find out

233
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Whether that person and I think
you'll be positively surprised,

234
00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,300
I think you will find that most
men are dying to talk to other

235
00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:02,800
men and I think that's the
success of your show.

236
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,100
I think that's why.
Yeah, and any group of men I've

237
00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:09,400
ever been in it.
Just takes that first man to be

238
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,600
vulnerable authentic, share
problem, ask a question and then

239
00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:16,200
and then the competitive sense
almost kicks in and why I want

240
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,900
to share more and no, no here.
I here's my worst case here.

241
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,500
No, no, I'm in much better
shape.

242
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:24,900
Here's my My story.
So that's when our, the male

243
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,800
competitive idea, can can really
help each other and that might

244
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,200
be one of the power of men's
groups.

245
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The therapy groups that I do for
men.

246
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Are the only groups I have in
which people openly talk with

247
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,800
each other about loving each
other.

248
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That does not happen in mixed
groups and groups of men which

249
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,200
you think never in a million
years would that happen.

250
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:45,800
It's routine to get men and
women to better understand each

251
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,000
other.
It sounds like the first step is

252
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,800
get to get with men had let I
think so just understand each

253
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other with men.
And then you intuitive but I

254
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,200
think it works better that way
because I keep seeing it again

255
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,100
and again, and again I see guys
in men's groups learning how to

256
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:04,700
talk about themselves with the
help of other men and then

257
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:08,000
they're bringing it back to
their relationships and I hear

258
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,000
the feedback from the wives, you
know, just the other night some

259
00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:13,500
you know guy reports his wife
said God, you're so much more

260
00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:16,800
open since you've been in group
so the wife loved it, you know,

261
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they're thrilled.
It's what it's what, you know,

262
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,200
it's the door.
They've been knocking on for as

263
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:27,000
long as they've been together
our men consciously afraid of

264
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,800
something related to two sex
itself, or is it is it more

265
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,400
hidden to them?
I think they're afraid of

266
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,100
appearing inadequate.
Both both the obvious, you know,

267
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:40,100
not being, it's if fascinated by
the language.

268
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,100
When a man has sexual
difficulties.

269
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What words do we use to describe
it?

270
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:46,500
We say.
Can't perform.

271
00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:47,900
What is it?
The sir.

272
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:52,500
Otis, you know, but the language
tells us everything and that's

273
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:54,300
how men are taught to think
about it.

274
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:58,200
It's not that they couldn't
enjoy themselves or it couldn't

275
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,600
give their partner pleasure,
it's that, they couldn't

276
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,000
perform, which I think tells you
everything you need to know of

277
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,700
how I think, you know, certainly
when I was growing up in teens

278
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:12,500
and 20s, sex is performance and
it is the circus.

279
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,800
Yes.
How many times did you put on a

280
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,100
show today?
You know who did Conquer, you

281
00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:22,700
know how quickly did they come?
It's not about oh, did you fall

282
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:25,400
in love this weekend?
It's not how intimate were you.

283
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,800
It's it's all performance about
the loneliness in that position,

284
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,800
you know.
It's just an incredibly alone

285
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,900
experience to be thinking about
sex as performance and, and the

286
00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:42,200
irony and the sad part is, you
know, there's what you want

287
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,800
lying right next to you.
It's not your even have to go

288
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,500
find it.
It's right there.

289
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,300
And, and probably Only someone
who's interested in connecting

290
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:53,800
with you, and so, to be alone,
you know, it's like starving at

291
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,700
a, at a smorgasbord, you know,
it's like this food everywhere

292
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:01,400
and you're starving yourself.
Oh, I got to get up and do

293
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,599
something about it to eat like,
oh well, you don't, it's

294
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,800
actually.
You could you could say if the

295
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,300
do saying about or you could say
you just have to stop stopping

296
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:15,099
it, you know.
It's like you just have to stop

297
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:17,599
trying so hard to prevent it
from happening.

298
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:20,300
Might be enough to just allow it
to happen.

299
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,300
So one thing I've, I just almost
as long as I've talked to other

300
00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:29,900
guys, no matter what age I have
been at a common complaint or an

301
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:33,600
issue and dealing with women or
complaints around sex is that is

302
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,600
monogamy, you know, I can't be
faithful.

303
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,100
And so it is Monogamy and
artificial creation of our

304
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:43,400
society, or is there some, some,
some truth to it?

305
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,000
Like it, are we forcing
something?

306
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:47,100
What do you think about?
That's, that's a really

307
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,900
interesting question.
It does not.

308
00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:52,600
It does appear.
That most species are

309
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,600
monogamous.
I think that polyamory is

310
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,000
incredibly interesting.
And I admire the courage of

311
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,600
people who want to kind of push
the boundaries and try that, I

312
00:18:05,608 --> 00:18:11,700
have to say in my limited
experience that the layers of

313
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:18,800
complexity are so overwhelming.
That I'm not sure how they, how

314
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,700
it adds up as being worthwhile,
because there are so many

315
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:27,800
complexities of feelings, and so
much negotiation around that.

316
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,900
And so I think mostly When men
object-- to monogamy, it's not

317
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,200
that there are so much
concretely saying.

318
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,000
I want to be able to have sex
with more than one person.

319
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,500
I think what they're saying is,
I don't like the pressure.

320
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:47,500
I feel to be open and vulnerable
with one person and I'd like to

321
00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:51,100
be able to just go have a casual
relationship with someone else.

322
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:54,300
So they don't have this feeling
of all my eggs being in one

323
00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:56,400
basket.
I think that's really what

324
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,200
they're talking about.
So then again it's really

325
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,500
fear-driven.
Yes, I think so.

326
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,800
Yeah.
If I'm having sex with a lot of

327
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,100
people nobody can touch me
because if you weren't my

328
00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:08,900
feelings, I just go on to the
next one.

329
00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:11,600
Yeah.
You know, I think that marriage,

330
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,300
there are a lot of problems with
marriage, but I think the

331
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:18,100
function it serves in the way I
talk to people about marriage.

332
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:21,600
Marriage is like, is like
locking the door and some

333
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,300
people's reaction to locking the
doors, you know, like you, I

334
00:19:24,308 --> 00:19:26,900
don't like being in a room with
the door locked on the other

335
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:31,500
hand, you know, if we want to
try to solve, World Peace.

336
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,400
The way we would do that as we
get everybody in a room and we'd

337
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,900
lock the door.
You know, we would we would

338
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:40,200
create a situation in which
you're not leaving until we

339
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,000
figure this out.
And so there's a depth that

340
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,900
comes, you know, when I do
therapy groups I don't say come

341
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:47,500
on.
You want.

342
00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:49,800
Don't come if you don't want I
say no you have to be there

343
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,500
every time because if somebody
start something with you they

344
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:55,400
want to know you're going to be
there next week.

345
00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:01,100
So yeah, that's commitment and
that restricts your options, but

346
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,000
then you get a depth of
connection that I don't think

347
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,400
you get without locking the
door.

348
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:11,900
You know, I was often afraid to
make commitments to anything out

349
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:13,800
of fear of being wrong about it
and being home.

350
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,200
I made a mistake and now it's
forever.

351
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,100
I think it's men and women.
Human beings are driven by fear

352
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:21,500
more than we realize, perhaps,
well, what kind of hardwired for

353
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:22,600
it?
You know, we have the same

354
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,800
nervous system that we had when
we were on all fours in the, in

355
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,700
the And so, mostly we're wired
to scan for danger.

356
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,700
Unfortunately, there's not a lot
of danger anymore and so our

357
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:37,400
nervous system, you know, takes
a long time to catch up with the

358
00:20:37,408 --> 00:20:38,600
new reality.
Yeah.

359
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,300
So we'll make some artificial
danger and and over emphasize

360
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,500
things that aren't that big of a
danger actually.

361
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,500
Yeah, well, whatever you're
looking for, you're going to

362
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,200
find, you know.
And so, if you walk around

363
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,100
looking for danger, you will
find it.

364
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:57,300
Do women and men, see sexual
issues or challenges that the

365
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:02,700
same way or no?
No, no.

366
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:05,700
I think it's the like much in
much of heterosexual

367
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:08,800
relationships were actually
often working at Cross purposes.

368
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,800
I think women are mostly
thinking about sex, not as an

369
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,500
orgasm, but as a way to connect,
there's an old saying and I'm

370
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:21,200
probably going to butcher it.
But women women want to feel

371
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,300
close.
Before having sex and men want

372
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:28,200
to have sex to feel close.
And you can see how that might

373
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,600
not always line up.
So, one of the things I say to

374
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,300
guys is, you know, how to work a
lot better.

375
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:37,400
If you think about foreplay as
starting the minute, you open

376
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,500
your eyes in the morning.
Everything you do from the

377
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,100
minute.
You wake up to the minute, you

378
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:48,300
want to have sex Has everything
to do with, how it's going to

379
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:50,800
go.
Yeah, because I mean, I often

380
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,200
hear from women that they just
want a hand on the shoulder or a

381
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,000
hug the waist as you walk by and
it's all those such minor

382
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,600
things.
But if most men are walking

383
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,900
around just updating, all right,
but just focus on everything

384
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:06,800
except their partner or or think
I only touch, I only touch her

385
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,400
when it's time to do it.
That that really takes intimacy

386
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,200
out of the rest of the day.
Well, look at the way men

387
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,300
taught, you know, if your watch
a sporting event or whatever,

388
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,700
look at the way men.
It's very aggressive and

389
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:23,400
bravado, and Slam on the back
and, you know, jump up and and

390
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,900
look at the way, women touch
each other, which is like gentle

391
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:29,900
caressing and you know, they're
they're they're feeling the

392
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:33,200
connection, they're touching to
connect.

393
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,200
One things that has struck me as
I as I've traveled the world how

394
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,100
often I'll see young males,
like, 20 year old men holding

395
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:46,700
hands walking around and it's
not, it's just a comforting

396
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:49,900
thing and is much more open
hugging and embracing in so many

397
00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:51,700
cultures.
Once you leave the United States

398
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,600
is so a great documentary.
Once about u.s. vets going back

399
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,600
to Vietnam, Vets going back to
Vietnam.

400
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,500
And this guy a vet went back and
met a guy who they had faced

401
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,100
each other in combat and he
tracked him down easy.

402
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:06,700
And they had this amazing
encounter with each other.

403
00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:09,800
And at the end of it, the
American tried to hug the

404
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,600
Vietnamese guy which in their
culture is like out of bounds

405
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,400
and way off, but then as they're
walking away, the Vietnamese guy

406
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,300
takes his hand and they're
walking down the road it just

407
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:23,200
different Different cultures, is
it possible?

408
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,800
For if a man realized I have low
sexual desire, he's been the

409
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,200
partner.
He wants to stay with that

410
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,200
partner, is it get a men's
group?

411
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,000
Get a counselor, you know, start
that inner dialogue?

412
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,400
Would someone else first said
that?

413
00:23:36,408 --> 00:23:40,400
Basically, and then moved to the
point where you might actually

414
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,300
begin to take the risk with your
partner of talking with her

415
00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:48,600
about how anxious you are about
sex, and how, how much baggage

416
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,400
comes for you with it.
It and how worried you are about

417
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,300
her, not approving of you and
and you may talk enough about it

418
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:59,700
where you start to talk more
during sex, you may say, how's

419
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:02,100
it going?
Are you liking this, is there

420
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:06,100
anything you'd like me to do?
You know, you might not just sit

421
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:09,500
by yourself with your anxiety to
begin to learn how to talk with

422
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:11,000
your partner.
Okay.

423
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,000
So now you know saying talk
about a thing you're saying talk

424
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,100
about what you're doing?
No no what's for dinner honey?

425
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,900
You know if you were playing
doubles tennis With your

426
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:22,600
partner.
You would talk about the game.

427
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,700
You would say, oh maybe you want
to move a little closer than

428
00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:26,600
that or let me take the
backhand.

429
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,500
I don't play tennis.
So I don't know what the but you

430
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:31,300
would.
I think if you wanted to get

431
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:35,200
better you were talking about.
So I was I was going to ask what

432
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,600
you wish more men knew about sex
but prefer is that it be willing

433
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,300
to talk about it.
Yeah.

434
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:42,700
What I wish been more men knew
about sex.

435
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:46,600
One of the really surprising
pieces of research is you know

436
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,300
men have a bad rap for being
completely self-centered love

437
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:52,700
Hers that they're all about
their own pleasure and they

438
00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:54,100
don't care about the woman at
all.

439
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,900
But actually, when surveyed men
say that the most important

440
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:01,000
thing about sex is pleasing the
apartment.

441
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:04,400
So I think those are two ends of
the Continuum and neither one is

442
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:10,000
very satisfying sex works.
Best when both Partners have a

443
00:25:10,008 --> 00:25:14,600
commitment to their Partners,
pleasure and their own pleasure,

444
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,000
and it doesn't go.
Well, if either person is only

445
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,200
interested in either, On
Pleasure or their Partners

446
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,700
pleasure, it is not fun to make
love with somebody who's only

447
00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:30,500
interested in themselves.
And it's not fun to make love

448
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:32,300
with someone who's only
interested in you.

449
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:36,900
But if both people and so what I
would say to men is it's just as

450
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:40,300
important to be committed to
your own pleasure as it is your

451
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:44,100
partner's, it's okay, you're not
being a jerk or a pig or a dick,

452
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:48,000
it's a good thing and your
partner will like it if you are

453
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,300
also paying attention to your
own pleasure.

454
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:55,700
Because if the risk otherwise is
to people faking it and if we're

455
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:59,000
just pretending to just to get
this, this act over with get it

456
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,900
out of the way.
Yeah, yeah.

457
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:03,600
Like the answer don't goes.
It goes back to being again.

458
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,200
It's a chore.
Yep.

459
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,100
Like it seems everybody wishes
for the intimacy.

460
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,700
But so, few take that first risk
to be intimate.

461
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:17,700
So things stay shut down, you
know, and the other thing that

462
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:22,900
goes with that is people put
Shockingly little amount of

463
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:26,200
energy into their sexual
relationships, you know, like

464
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,400
they like a lot of times people
say to me, well, I'm just tired.

465
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,200
Like, well, when do you make
love?

466
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:34,900
I'll usually like 11:30.
I'm like, I can't even pronounce

467
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:38,500
my name at 11:30 at night.
Like you're taking one of the

468
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:40,600
things that you say is most
important to you and you're

469
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,500
waiting till you've done
everything else in the day.

470
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:46,900
And now this is last, it might
not go.

471
00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:50,200
Well, what's the solution to
that for?

472
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,600
For some of the family for when
these children, because usually

473
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,000
it's at night because you got to
take care of the kids get her

474
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,600
into bed and then it's not quiet
and then Mom, Dad or exhausted.

475
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,600
So the best solution to that
I've heard, is the family who

476
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,200
this was reported to me by an
adult, but it's an experience

477
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,300
from his childhood that his
parents every Sunday afternoon,

478
00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:12,000
probably after church would say
to the kids.

479
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,200
Okay, mommy and I are going to
take a nap now.

480
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,600
And unless the house is burning
down, do not knock on the door,

481
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,300
whatever you need.
And so the kids after a certain

482
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:24,600
age, realized that every Sunday
afternoon, their parents had sex

483
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:28,700
and it was, it was very
comforting to them.

484
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,500
And it was very reassuring to
know that their parents had a

485
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:35,900
regular and enjoyable sexual
relationship and that the kids

486
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,100
could fend for themselves and
you didn't have to wait till

487
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,600
they went to sleep.
They could watch cartoons for a

488
00:27:40,608 --> 00:27:44,200
while.
So that way, you're you're

489
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,900
making your Ship and your
children's upbringing more

490
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:48,400
resilient as well.
Exactly.

491
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,100
Exactly.
And you're saying to kids.

492
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:55,700
This is not an odd thing that's
hidden in the darkness behind

493
00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:57,000
closed all.
Oh God, there's some of the

494
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,700
door, you know, I bet I knew
someone once who was from

495
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:06,000
Mongolia and in my in Mongolia,
there are still people who live

496
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,400
in Yurts, you know the big
round.

497
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,900
Well, there's no walls.
Yeah.

498
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:16,100
Oh so it's not one couple per
your tits.

499
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,200
No entire family groups are
extended family, groups

500
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,900
multi-generational gotcha,
there's no one else, the

501
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:29,000
blankets but you know so sex is
something that's part of

502
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:32,000
everyone's lives.
Its people have desires.

503
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,500
It's hardwired into us yet.
It's still something we're lucky

504
00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:39,500
to talk about reluctant to have
anyone know that you're doing it

505
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,500
reluctant to heaven when see it.
And it would there's so many

506
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,700
Veils of secrecy and things on
it in Judaism.

507
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:51,600
It is considered a special good
deed to have sex on the Sabbath,

508
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:57,500
got a like that but again, it's
the Sabbath is a day of rest.

509
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:02,100
You put the concerns of work and
all the side and then it's

510
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,000
considered, you know, like a
part of observing the Sabbath to

511
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,600
make love.
Is there anything else related

512
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,100
to men's fears of sex or men
spheres?

513
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,900
Keeping them from sex that that
we haven't hit on know?

514
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:19,800
I think the thing we've talked
about that I would highlight for

515
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,400
people as a takeaway is the
person next to you in the bed is

516
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:32,600
your friend, not your evaluator,
not your criticized ER but your

517
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:38,300
Ally and that you both want the
same thing and just think of her

518
00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:40,900
as a partner, think of her as a
partner in this.

519
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,900
And this you don't have to
please anybody but her and

520
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:50,500
yourself and you whatever you
like to certainly fine without

521
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:53,100
talking about it, your
assumption.

522
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,100
Ins about what's pleasing to
them, is you totally making

523
00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:57,700
guesses.
Absolutely.

524
00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:01,800
And I have to say I'm a
therapist and so I think I'm

525
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,500
better at guessing than the
average bear and I am wrong all

526
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:11,300
the time and so you know, when
my wife and I are getting to a

527
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:14,200
conversation now, I try to
remember the simple trick of

528
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,100
saying to her as the
conversation starts.

529
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:19,400
Whether just a minute is this
the conversation in which you

530
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,600
want me to help you figure
something out and solve a

531
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,100
problem or this is a
conversation.

532
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,700
Nation.
We want me to listen and be

533
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:28,400
supportive.
And I'm wrong most of the time.

534
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:31,100
But once I know then I can
relax.

535
00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:34,500
I'm not, I'm not trying to
discern and figure it out.

536
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,900
She just tells me and it's so
much easier, right?

537
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:43,300
But it takes that vulnerable
risk for you to ask.

538
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:46,600
Yeah.
Yeah and coaching people often

539
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,600
tell them like what you're most
afraid of like see that as the

540
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,200
go sign.
Not the stop sign exam if we

541
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,700
willing to take the action of
what we feared.

542
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,000
Yeah.
But It fears quickly dissolve

543
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,100
and and all the years of trauma
and negativity and performing in

544
00:31:03,108 --> 00:31:05,700
the circus can kick and fall
away.

545
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,500
You know, the only thing I'll
add to this and it's maybe a bit

546
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:12,400
controversial.
But I've been asking women

547
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,100
recently, an interesting
question I've been asking him,

548
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:18,300
what did you learn from your
mother about men?

549
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,900
Not just with the word she told
you but through her behavior

550
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:26,000
towards your father.
What did you learn about men

551
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,600
growing up and sadly, the
answer.

552
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,200
Pretty uniformly, is I learned
not to trust.

553
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,900
Men, not to count on them, not
to respect them and certainly

554
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:38,600
not to expect to feel close to
them.

555
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:42,500
So, you know, we hear men all
the time talking about feeling

556
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:46,700
criticized.
And and we kind of pathologize

557
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:50,200
that but when I'm learning more
and more, they're not wrong,

558
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,100
they are picking up on something
unconscious that is going on in

559
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:59,500
the relationship.
And so women have just as Pig

560
00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:03,600
and responsibilities as men men
to do, as you say, to lean in,

561
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,600
to the fear.
But women also to look at the

562
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,600
ways in which they lead with
criticism and disdain and

563
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:14,400
accelerate that fear on and then
complain that there, Partner is

564
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,100
withdrawing.
Yeah.

565
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:19,500
We're so both parties are kind
of continuing what they were

566
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:22,100
learned, but if they're
continuing the worst aspects of

567
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:23,500
what they were learning about
relationships.

568
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:24,600
Exactly.
Yeah.

569
00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:26,600
Yeah.
We've all got to be willing to

570
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:30,300
again to challenge.
What doesn't feel good thanks

571
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:31,300
to.
Yeah.

572
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,300
So ever, what's the best way for
people to learn more about you

573
00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:37,200
and stay in touch and find out
about all the things you're up

574
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,500
to?
If you go to my website which is

575
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:44,100
AA from Weiss PhD.com.
You will find a mailing list

576
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:46,500
there and you, if you sign up
for the mailing list, you will

577
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:48,800
get a free ebook.
I don't have T-shirts to give

578
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,000
out.
I should get t-shirts.

579
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:51,800
I wish I had t-shirts.
That's pretty cool.

580
00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:54,500
But you'll get on the mailing
list and I'll send you a free

581
00:32:54,500 --> 00:32:57,200
ebook about relationships.
And then, I usually write

582
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,000
something every couple of weeks
or so, for psychology today and

583
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,100
you will get copies of that.
And the other thing is, I, it's

584
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:10,800
a point of Pride for me that I
have responded to every email

585
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,100
I've ever gotten.
In my life and it may take me a

586
00:33:15,108 --> 00:33:19,200
little while but I really can't
stand people who, you know,

587
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,600
think they get too big for their
britches and don't want to reply

588
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,100
to their email.
So I maybe maybe I'll get to the

589
00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:27,500
point where I'll do that but at
least for now I'm committed to.

590
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:31,200
So if people, if you have
questions or thoughts or things,

591
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,400
you want some input on, I will
respond and it just share that

592
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:39,700
my original like, note holding
the place for this call today,

593
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,800
it just said sex with avram So,
maybe that's what your T-shirt

594
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,700
should be that, what's next?
Okay, well, I have to check with

595
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:52,800
our wives first again, always a
pleasure talking to you come

596
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,700
back anytime and I apologize for
Miss attributing, that quote,

597
00:33:56,700 --> 00:34:00,300
but I hope what you heard in it
was how much I liked it.

598
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,200
Yeah, it's not every telling my
story but now I remember who

599
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,900
came up with that really
brilliant idea and I will give

600
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:09,699
it the proper attribution.
All right.

601
00:34:09,699 --> 00:34:11,900
Excellent.
So thanks everyone for joining

602
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:13,699
us.
And thanks everybody for tuning

603
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:16,199
in and listening wherever you're
discovering real Midfield.

604
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,699
Please Subscribe follow like
share their someone post a

605
00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:22,400
review, a comment crank this up
and have sex you know whatever

606
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,699
works for you always reach out
to me at ribemont feel at

607
00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:28,000
gmail.com.
Love to hear from you and I

608
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,900
respond like Ivan's does to if
you want to explore making next

609
00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:33,800
year, your best year.
I invite you to book a free

610
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,400
Clarity call with me.
That's an actual live

611
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,500
discussion.
Not a podcast, Don't Be Afraid.

612
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,800
Visit D&D Grant.com, talk for
that.

613
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:44,000
And until next time, I'm be good
to yourself.

614
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:46,000
And if you have a partner be
good to them, too.

615
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:48,600
Yeah.
And that can start by asking

616
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:50,699
because it comes back around.
Yeah.

617
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,000
Don't treat your don't treat
each other like a circus.

618
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:55,699
Thanks everyone.
Bye.

619
00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:45,199
I'm be good to yourself.
And if you have a partner be

620
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:46,800
good to them, too.
Yeah.

621
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:50,300
And that can start by asking
because it comes back around.

622
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,000
Yeah.
Don't treat your don't treat

623
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,900
each other like a circus.
Thanks everyone.

624
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:55,699
Bye.