Men's Fears of Women

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Hello and welcome to real men.
Feel I'm your host, Andy grant

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real men.
Feel is here to remind you, that

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men are human and have the need
desire and ability to express

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all of their emotions.
I'm also a coach author and

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healer you can learn more about
such things at the Andy

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Grant.com.
My guest today, is, dr.

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Brian Weiss, dr.
Weiss is a psychotherapist and

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award-winning author and teacher
his decade-long work on

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understanding the internal lives
of men culminated with his

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recently published best-selling
book hidden in plain sight.

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How many spheres of women shape?
Their Intimate Relationships.

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Dr. Weiss is a regular
contributor to the psychology

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today.
Website and offers workshops

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nationally about Psychotherapy
with men and helping men and

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women.
Understand each other.

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He practices Psychotherapy
online from his home on an

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island and Midcoast.
Maine specializing in

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Psychotherapy groups for men and
Psychotherapy consultation.

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Now Ivan was scheduled to be a
guest last fall.

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I think it was October and I
believe it was a little, it was

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a legitimate power Issue. 11 of
our ends, was a bad storm.

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So we I had to postpone, we both
thought the postponement would

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be a week or two, I imagine.
Yeah and then it being 10 months

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due to my withdrawal from life.
So I want to start off by

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thanking you for your tremendous
patience, sir.

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Happy to you.
Come highly recommended.

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I'm glad to talk with you.
I don't know if you noticed me

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smiling at your introduction
because I thought wow, what a

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world we live in that.
We have to start by stating the

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premise that men are human.
We have to remind people that

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men are human.
Yeah.

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And unfortunately, we really do
know.

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I got it but it's like listening
to you say it.

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I'm like, wow, what have we
done?

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Yeah.
So yeah.

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So let's jump in.
I really want to focus on your

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book and we talk about fears and
I've experienced fears, plenty

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of times.
So is there a particular fear

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that men have of women or is
there a conglomeration of them?

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It's a conglomerate
conglomeration.

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That's a hard work but I think
that they are hierarchical.

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Uncle in that I think that the
fears that we know more about

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that we recognize and that men
will actually acknowledge our

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rest on deeper fears.
So if you start near the top I

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think the stuff people know
about would recognize would be

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things like men's fears of being
dominated and controlled by

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women.
And you can see that anywhere in

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the culture with all the jokes
that we make about men being

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pussy-whipped, men, being who
wears the pants, The family, A

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lot of times.
I'll ask guys I'll give them a

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scenario and I'll say, okay,
your friends at work.

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Say to you, hey, we're going out
for a beer afterwards.

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Why don't you join us?
What's your first thought?

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And if they're honest, what
they'll often say is, my first

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thought is I wonder if my wife
or girlfriend or part.

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I wonder if she'll mine, which
is crazy for two reasons.

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One is shouldn't your fought
first thought.

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Be would I like to go have a
beer with these guys?

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And second of all, In most cases
their partner has never said

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they mined in fact, they may
have actively, you know, like

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you don't have friends.
Why don't you get out more?

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But it doesn't stop men from
being worried that they're bad

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or wrong or they've done the
wrong things.

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Like I think that's the fear,
that is pretty recognizable for

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most people.
That's when the as you talk

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about that, I'm having like
flashbacks to like bad sitcoms

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and to like how to do sitcoms
just perpetuate this nonsense

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like, oh I better talk to the
wife and I'll be in trouble and

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all that sort of Goofy maleness.
That that were taught is how we

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really are.
They do perpetuate it but they

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also reflect it.
Like those writers are trained

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to write things that people
resonate with.

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And so if nobody ever thought
that or felt that the show you

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would never see the show.
Now, have men always been afraid

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of women, or is this more of a
modern age issue?

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I think it's an old ways because
I found something by a writer in

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1840.
Something Talking about men

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being henpecked and, and what?
Yeah, so as far as I can tell, I

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think, as long as there have
been heterosexual, couples.

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Well, I mean, I could be really
silly and say, was, was Adam

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afraid to say no to Eve?
Oh, she said here, eat this

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apple.
He's like, oh God told us, not

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to it's okay, it's okay, yeah,
it's a no, yeah.

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Did that first man?
Fear his wife, more than God,

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like, I'll disappoint God, but I
better not disappoint this one.

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In front of me.
So this interview is already a

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big plus for me because I never
thought about that before.

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But I will now incorporate that
that's a great line.

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Was that a more afraid of his
wife been got And even that

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feels like a joke or a Twist
that I've heard people say

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absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.

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So I think it starts there and
then when you get down to the

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deeper love, so the other sort
of readily, recognizable.

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One is is how afraid men are of
any conflict with women and what

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enormous lengths, they will go
to, to avoid conflict in any

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way.
And typically, what men do is

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they try to make the argument
hyper-rational and they Insist

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that their partner be sensible
and rational why do men do that?

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I think because men are afraid
of our own emotional expression

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and so which is why your show is
your show.

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And so the way we manage it in
relationships, is we try to get

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women to be less emotional.
So that will feel less, right?

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Because we're uncomfortable with
what we feel.

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So if you would just calm down
then I could calm myself down,

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right?
So our men afraid of being

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Controlled period and conflict
period?

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Or is it really a different
aspect when when it's regarding

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a woman?
It's a different assets.

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Great question.
As a different aspect with

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women, because if I get in a
conflict with you and I don't

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like the way it's going, I'll
just leave.

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I don't need you.
If I get in a conflict with my

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partner, not only is there a
dependency there but it's an

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unacknowledged dependency which
is why men send such confusing

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messages because on Hand.
So, for example, how many times

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have you heard men complain
about sexual frequency while

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I've done wanna have sex that we
don't have enough sex, it's

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pretty common.
So if you say to a man, well,

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why don't you just masturbate If
they don't even understand in

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themselves, why that wouldn't
work, that there's something

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beyond the orgasm, that they're
not even admitting to

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themselves.
There's an emotional dependency,

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emotional connection.
If it were just about a release

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of physiological release, you
could just masturbate, but

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that's not satisfactory.
And I don't think men often

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understand why it's not.
Did you go into this line of

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work and write this book?
Because you have your own

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experiences at right?
Are you have you been afraid of

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women?
Well, my premise is that all

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straight men are so be kind of
ridiculous for me to say all

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straight man except for me,
that's why you're the expert.

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Yeah.
No I I sort of understood this

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in myself, as I sort of looked
at how long I had been

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unhappily, married a marriage
that started off great.

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And Overtime, degraded and
became much less satisfying to

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both of us.
But clearly, I was terrified to

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say how unhappy I was.
So yes personally and then, you

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know, my primary teachers have
been the men sitting in my

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office, talking to me about this
and they just keep saying again

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and again and again and it when
I bring up in a group, the idea

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that maybe this is about being
afraid, the men just come alive

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because it explains so much for
them.

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Was there a particular Insight?
Aha action that made you have

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your own.
I don't say breaking point, but

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realization of the, the level of
fear, you Hood.

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Well, I think I understood it in
other people before.

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I understood it myself, it was
sort of retroactive for me.

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And as I listen to men,
consistently talk about all the

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things they were unhappy with in
their marriages.

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And I would say, sort of
naively.

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We'll have you talked to your
partner about this and they

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would look Look at me like that
was the stupidest question that

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anybody had ever asked them,
like know.

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I'm, of course, I haven't talked
to her.

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That's that's why I'm here.
And then it occurred to me like

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what kind of sounds like you're
afraid to talk to her?

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What is it?
You think what happened?

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If you would talk to her and
then we start unpacking it from

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there.
Yeah, we are, we are bizarre

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beings.
Well, I think that but I think

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that, you know, we were talking
a little while ago about the

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layers of fear to and I think
the bottom layer, the most

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profound that RN largely in
denial because they fear of

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being abandoned and you know,
men are taught to not need

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anyone.
But we know we can see that men

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are afraid of being abandoned
because in a heterosexual,

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couple when there's a break up,
Puri Partners first.

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Man.
So if we don't need women how

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come we're in?
Such a hurry to get re partner.

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That's funny.
Yeah.

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So we're so afraid of
Abandonment that we won't speak

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up and raise any potential issue
that could lead to advancement.

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That's exactly what men say is
that if I bring it up, it will

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make it worse.
Yeah, I hear lots of guys.

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Say, you know, my partner
expected me to be a mind reader

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and I'm supposed to just know
we're thinking, but then they

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act the same way and I'm looking
to raise me as you think Dish.

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You'll just know.
No.

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This or if it matters to her,
she'll figure it out.

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That kind of, I've heard that a
lot too.

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I work with one guy.
I work with him for.

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I don't know something like a
year and it during the course of

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our work together.
He filed for divorced separated

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from his wife and I can tell you
that's to this day, she has no

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idea what he was unhappy about.
He was literally that two young

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children.
He was so terrified to talk to

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her that they are now divorced
and I pretty confident.

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She has no idea why It's
amazing.

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Yeah this this question is based
on something I experienced by

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doing the show.
Do you find that?

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That saying men are afraid of
anything.

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Does that lead you to be seen as
an time?

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And somehow oh oh yeah, just a
little.

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So I'll answer it in two ways.
One is the sort of individual

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and the other is the larger to
an individual level.

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When you say to a man, I think
you might be afraid of your

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partner.
The reaction is so similar.

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Every time it's almost comical.
The first part of the reaction

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is this a boa.
They get defense by unafraid to

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know, but you get that but
amazingly it never lasts.

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As long as a minute within a
minute.

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You can just see the wheels
starting to turn and guys going.

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You know, you know, that's an
interesting idea that that might

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explain a lot.
And then in the culture at

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large, I have been attacked.
Interestingly by both men and

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women.
I've been attacked by and and

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I've been attacked by men in
ways that literally frightened

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me.
So I've been attacked by men and

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called the feminazi and all
kinds of stuff for suggesting

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any that men are afraid.
And then I've been attacked by

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women.
Who think that I'm trying to

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rationalize bad behavior by men,
like, I'm being more simple just

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like the start of your show.
I'm daring to say that men are

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human and we should try to
understand them and they're

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saying, no man are wrong and
behaving badly and we should

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just call them out.
And my response is, how is it,

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you know, unless you're planning
on leaving an another continent

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where there are?
No men.

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How is it?
You think that This is ever

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going to get better.
If we don't also try to

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understand what's going on with
man, right?

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So what do you say to those
bitter men that that will say

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Lee all women are narcissists
and they just you know, use men,

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throw them away with treated
horribly.

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They maybe they want to be in
that country.

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That is free of all women.
What do you say to guys like

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that?
Well, you know the whole make

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Town movement, the men going
their own way.

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So, yes, there are many men who
have decided.

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I mean, what I try to do is I
try to look past the anger and

231
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the implied violence at times,
and I try to Understand that

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this is an incredibly hurting
human being that I'm talking to

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that, nobody gets that bitter
without being really hurt.

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And that most of these guys have
had some pretty traumatic

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experiences and relationships.
They're not very connected to

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the party that they've tried to
cut off the part of themselves

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that wants to be close to
another human being.

238
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So that's the part.
I try to talk to, that's the

239
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,800
part.
I try to reach out to is that

240
00:13:13,500 --> 00:13:17,400
You know, you're going to
massage parlors three times a

241
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,200
week that as that just about sex
or that's just about maybe you

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00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,100
want somebody to touch you even
a stranger that kind of

243
00:13:26,108 --> 00:13:29,600
conversation.
Yeah, I did a think I did three

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00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,400
different shows on on mgtow a
few years ago and the way that I

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was able to talk to those guys,
I found a common ground.

246
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We both wanted men to be happy.
Yeah, we both might want to find

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P so I could they could and it
like I do.

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There was I was attacked a lot
online but then people that

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00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:49,400
watch it was like Hey this guy's
try and at least like I'm like

250
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:50,600
yeah there's always.
Yeah.

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So I went from but I think all
the other feminazi of heard that

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00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,400
one too and like like oh that
well unfortunately, I think it's

253
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a problem.
We better address and we better

254
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start getting more real about
because most of the people who

255
00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:05,800
are doing these mass shootings
are these guys, you know,

256
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,200
they're the in cells.
The they're very angry, bitter,

257
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,000
and violent, and so we can't
just ignore them.

258
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Men act like they're not real.
Do you find that?

259
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:23,700
This fear come before anger.
Well, I think anger often mask

260
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sphere.
So I think we're saying the same

261
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:32,100
thing in the sense that anger
is, if you think, if you imagine

262
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:35,100
for a moment yourself being
angry, you will find your

263
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:39,000
muscles Contracting.
So it's a more powerful position

264
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,900
to feel angry.
It's a more socially acceptable

265
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position for men to be angry
than afraid.

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And so, I think men are taught
to to sort of lead with anger as

267
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the emotion The most comfortable
with and so anger, often covers

268
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,900
sadness, fear longing, all kinds
of stuff comes out his anger in

269
00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:01,200
men, right?
Because that's more, that's the

270
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,100
acceptable mask.
We can put on to hide all those

271
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:06,800
deeper.
Again, you took one of the big

272
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fear fear of emotionality fear
of Abandonment.

273
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So yeah, of course, it's
enormously confusing to women

274
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because you're talking about
saying that would seem to be

275
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tender but the person you're
talking to is sounding angry.

276
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,800
So, you're like, I don't
understand what you're angry

277
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,200
about like what?
What is going on here?

278
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:28,100
What are some of the
repercussions of immense fear of

279
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,700
women?
There's a there's a researcher

280
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:33,500
by the name of Jim O'Neill who
wrote the introduction that

281
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:40,200
forward to my book who has done
or had colleagues do over 200

282
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:45,100
studies on what he calls gender
role conflict and I'll make the

283
00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:48,100
connection and moment.
So gender role conflict is the

284
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:53,700
gap between who you Yourself to
be and who you believe Society,

285
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,200
expects you to be as a man and
the more that Gap.

286
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,300
The more emotional problems you
have financial problems, you

287
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:05,600
have physical.
I mean, even things like high

288
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,600
blood pressure, all kinds of
things and O'Neill's work.

289
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,000
Suggest that the cause of gender
role conflict are men, spheres

290
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,300
of women or is the underlying
cause.

291
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:24,300
And so, the costs are, I think,
I think men's fears of women are

292
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,900
big part of, what caused what?
We're now, calling depths of

293
00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:31,800
Despair and Men deaths from
overdose deaths from suicide.

294
00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:36,500
You know, we know that
loneliness is as big a health

295
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:41,100
risk as smoking cigarettes.
And I think that has a lot to do

296
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:48,500
with these fears.
Can men change overcome lesson,

297
00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:50,300
these fears?
Absolutely.

298
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,600
I, that's a really important
point to me.

299
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,900
So, one of the things I insisted
on the book, although I had

300
00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:01,700
mixed feelings about it.
The last section of the book,

301
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:06,099
there are three chapters work
for men to do, work for women to

302
00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:09,000
do and work for men, and women
to do with each other, in that

303
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,400
order.
And so, one of my things I've

304
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,000
learned in my experience, This
is the first time I did a men's

305
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,500
group, I remember distinctly
that right before, I'm ready to

306
00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:21,700
walk her in the room for the
first time.

307
00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:25,000
I thought this is one of the
worst ideas I've ever had.

308
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:28,300
They're not going to talk.
They going to, you know, I'm

309
00:17:28,308 --> 00:17:30,900
going to be pulling teeth all
night or going to talk about

310
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:33,600
work or you know, it'll be so
sterile.

311
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,500
Opposite is true.
The group's.

312
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:40,400
I run with men's or the most
devoted and committed and

313
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,400
intimate groups I run.
And what I've learned is that

314
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,500
Men are dying to talk to each
other.

315
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:49,300
It's women were scared of but
men were dying to connect with

316
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:53,900
each other and so I think what
man can do my idea is that it

317
00:17:53,900 --> 00:17:57,400
goes better when men start
talking with each other before

318
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,500
they try talking to women.
And so the book has some pretty

319
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:06,600
specific guidelines for men who
want to connect with other men

320
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,900
and talk about these issues.
There are some pretty specific

321
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:13,400
steps for guys about how to find
like-minded.

322
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,400
Dude, man.
Form a support group and get

323
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,200
together and start talking with
each other.

324
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:21,800
Awesome, awesome.
Yeah, one of the I'm actually in

325
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,400
training to run men's groups
with the mankind project right

326
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,500
now and I'm not Staffing a
weekend for them.

327
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,600
Next month in Massachusetts and
are you familiar with their

328
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,500
work?
I am.

329
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:36,100
And I talked with them, they're
great group and I think they're

330
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:38,100
doing exactly what I'm talking
about.

331
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:40,800
It's helping men to find each
other and connect.

332
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:42,300
Cool.
Yeah, he won't be there because

333
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:45,800
now that the We're coming
through the pandemic.

334
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:49,200
I'm tired of saying it's over
and being wrong but as I'm going

335
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,500
through this, I know I know that
those in person groups are

336
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,400
happening again all over the
country all over the world.

337
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,700
So that that does resource for
because I'm unless the guys that

338
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:01,700
claim you know like one of the
one of the things first resource

339
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,500
I made with room and feel was a
good guide for adult men, making

340
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:07,600
new friends because nobody
hides, I don't know where to go

341
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,800
or how to start or, you know, I
think they don't even think it's

342
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,400
actually even a little worse and
then I think that most men do

343
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,800
Realize they don't have friends
until something happens.

344
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:20,400
So typically if you ask a man,
if he has friends, they say yes,

345
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,000
but it's the follow-up question.
You need to ask which is no by

346
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,200
friends.
I mean someone you actually talk

347
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,900
to oh no, I don't have those
kind of friends.

348
00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:31,800
Yeah, well goes back to fear.
Yeah, I don't want admit.

349
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,500
I'm if I fear being abandoned.
How can I tell some stranger

350
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:35,400
that?
I have no friends.

351
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:37,000
Exactly.
Exactly.

352
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:41,600
And so it's usually either when
people get divorced or retire

353
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:45,200
for men that they look around
And realize that, if they, the

354
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,200
people, they thought of her
friends were there wife's

355
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,200
friends.
Yeah.

356
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:50,700
Or friendships.
They were orchestrated by their

357
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:54,500
wife, which women do so that
they can see their women

358
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:56,300
friends.
Because they know if the guys

359
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:59,300
make at least some kind of
connection, they'll spend more

360
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:02,500
time together as couples.
It's powerful.

361
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,200
And these are all like, why
isn't this talk to us?

362
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,100
And like freshman year of high
school like, going good, you

363
00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:13,600
know, make a group this this
matters and I know there's a I

364
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,800
can't remember who says
originally but there's a song

365
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,500
that male cells sing and the
presence of especially older men

366
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,800
like teaches just innately
passes.

367
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:25,400
Good things on and doesn't Role
Models interesting.

368
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,600
Well I live in a community where
more of that happens than

369
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,800
happens in the rest of the world
because it's an island and

370
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,700
people have lived here for
generations and they fish So so

371
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:46,600
typically grandfather's will
take their grandsons fishing

372
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,800
with them and teach them about
things like hard work and

373
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,200
honesty and accountability, you
know, not in those words perhaps

374
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,300
but indeed older men are
teaching younger men, but I

375
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:02,900
think in the World At Large,
we've lost most of the ways

376
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:05,400
like, who grows up with their
grandfather anymore.

377
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:10,000
You know, who even knows their
More than superficially or who

378
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,300
sees how many people have any
idea?

379
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:16,100
What your family, men or young,
man, have any idea what your

380
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:19,800
father does for work beyond the
title?

381
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,200
Do you know what he does?
During the day, you know what it

382
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,400
feels like what it looks like.
What it's like for a man to be

383
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,700
in the world of work during the
day, things like that.

384
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,100
Yeah.
I mean Beyond let alone

385
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,100
grandfather's so many men don't
know their fathers growing iron.

386
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,400
So goodbye.
We're live in very aged

387
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,900
segregated world.
World's.

388
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:43,600
So your island is proof that.
No man is an island.

389
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,500
There you go.
But see I have met there.

390
00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:53,300
I mean there it's the opposite.
There are people in my community

391
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:56,600
people.
I know range in age from 30s to

392
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:03,100
90s.
And how does that diversity help

393
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,900
with with fear?
I think it helps because growing

394
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:10,300
up and growing old is not
abstract.

395
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:15,800
It's real and you have role
models of how been live in the

396
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,800
world.
And the question I've learned to

397
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,900
ask people recently which is
incredibly powerful and

398
00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:27,800
informative question is, I ask
Men and women, but different

399
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,700
version for each.
I asked men, what did your dad

400
00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:34,600
teach you about?
Women not just in words.

401
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,900
But in action, how did your dad
behave toward your mom?

402
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:40,800
And what did you learn about
women from your dad and for

403
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,000
women, of course, what did you
learn from your mom?

404
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:48,800
And what women mostly tell me
which is very troubling is the

405
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,500
majority of women tell me that
from their moms, they learned

406
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:54,400
that men are not to be trusted
not to be counted on.

407
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,700
Don't expect to be close to a
man and figure out workarounds

408
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,400
Horrible.
So when we see men who are, who

409
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,000
seemed highly susceptible to
feeling criticized, you know,

410
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,300
men are very quick to think that
women are criticizing him.

411
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,900
They are.
Then I'm a thing about to yeah

412
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:23,200
it may not be over and out loud
but it's there.

413
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,200
Yeah, it might even be criticism
from something they've learned

414
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,900
from the person in front of him
is just the Christian.

415
00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:32,600
They've been taught to repeat.
Yeah, well, I think what?

416
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,200
Ben's, is that women get
frustrated trying to connect

417
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,400
with us and so they get critical
as an expression of that

418
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,400
frustration.
Yeah.

419
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,800
So you've kind of answered this
with, with the mention of those

420
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,300
last three chapters but was
hidden in plain sight, how many

421
00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:52,900
spheres of women shape, their
Intimate Relationships who was

422
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:57,100
it written for I'm glad you
asked because it is written for

423
00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:00,600
women as well as men.
And in the workshops I'm doing

424
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,700
with couples, I had a chance to
do a workshop where we had a

425
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:07,800
two-day workshop and then the
same group of men and women had

426
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,400
another two-day works out for
months apart.

427
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:16,400
So I got to hear how the first
two Days impacted them, and the

428
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,600
women had actually made more
changes in their relationships

429
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,900
than the Manhattan.
Because what the women said was,

430
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:26,600
I have really thought that my
husband was just being a jerk,

431
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,000
all these years and I've been
angry at him for years,

432
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,400
understanding what's going on
with him.

433
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:36,600
I feel much more sympathetic
actually have a, quote, here

434
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,000
from a woman in one of those
workshops, which I think he'll

435
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,300
say it clearly.
She said, I understand that my

436
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:48,500
husband has not been ignoring
dismissing or hurting me out of

437
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:52,500
a lack of respect, as I have
always suspected, but that he

438
00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:57,500
scared scared to hurt me.
Scared to mess up with me scared

439
00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:00,200
to not be enough.
I had honestly, never imagined

440
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,700
he was scared and that I was so
profoundly important to him that

441
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:06,900
he was constantly terrified.
I would leave.

442
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:13,700
The book is written for men and
women and what some couples are

443
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:15,700
doing which I really like.
Is there reading the book

444
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:19,000
together, a chapter, at a time
and making time to talk with

445
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,200
each other.
And for the men, it's really

446
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,500
helpful because they're
basically saying, you know?

447
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:25,700
Yeah.
Like he said you know, they're

448
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:29,000
not real skilled yet have
expressing themselves but they

449
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,500
can say, yeah, chapter 2.
That's me.

450
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,500
Yeah, cool.
If you gave me a question that I

451
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:38,900
have to ask What did your dad
teach you about women?

452
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:46,400
Who that's, I'm glad you're
asking my parents had a very

453
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,000
unhappy marriage.
And so, I think what my dad

454
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,200
taught me about women,
unfortunately, was that it

455
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,100
doesn't get better, you can't
talk to them.

456
00:25:59,700 --> 00:26:01,300
There's not going to be a
conversation.

457
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,300
I think they sort of each state
in their own orbits until they

458
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,400
thank God.
Finally, separated, They were

459
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,000
both profoundly unhappy and
didn't know how to reach each

460
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,300
other.
And so I think the message was

461
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,800
kind of one of Despair and
hopelessness.

462
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,900
Yeah.
Hmm which just see a lot of.

463
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,900
Yeah.
How long did it take you to free

464
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:24,200
yourself from that lesson of
Despair?

465
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,500
Took me.
Most of my adult life.

466
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,000
I would say it's in the within
the last 10 years or so that I

467
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:36,000
finally get it aging helps.
You know you sure to realize

468
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,600
that the clock's ticking and you
don't have forever, that's

469
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,000
interesting.
Thought so If you feel hopeless

470
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,300
and despair, you find that the
ticking clock can help break out

471
00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:49,200
of that.
Well, if you feel like you're

472
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,600
wasting your time, I don't know.
I don't have infinite time.

473
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,700
So I'm going to, I'm not going
to put up with this feeling

474
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:55,900
anymore.
I'm going to ever wonder why if

475
00:26:55,900 --> 00:27:00,200
you watch football and you get
to the last two minutes and all

476
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,600
of a sudden, the team that has
not been able to move the ball.

477
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,200
All game, all of a sudden goes
right down the field.

478
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,800
It's the same team, well,
something about it being the

479
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,600
last two minutes, loosens him
up, or something.

480
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:14,300
But now they're like marching
right down the field.

481
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:15,900
And you're like, where the where
was that?

482
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:19,500
The rest of the game?
I think life can be the same

483
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:21,200
way.
When you sort of get to the, at

484
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,600
least the final quarter, at
least, if you're smart, you kind

485
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,100
of look and say, oh, you know,
I've been waiting all three

486
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:32,200
quarters to run this play.
I either run it now or games.

487
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,300
Going to end.
Yeah.

488
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:38,500
And and the game is not.
How can I feel the most fear for

489
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:41,000
the longest time?
That is not a, I mean that that

490
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,400
is a game, a lot of us play.
But it's not what I recommend.

491
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:45,900
Yeah.
But at some point are you are

492
00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:47,600
you willing to take a little bit
of a chance.

493
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,200
So you're willing to come out of
those fears and say, well,

494
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:54,400
here's what I want, you know, I
don't ever talk about it, but

495
00:27:54,400 --> 00:28:00,600
here's what I ache for ya, real
men, fear could easily be what

496
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,100
the show is actually called.
But but I think even fewer guys

497
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:05,100
would look for that title of a
real men feel.

498
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:07,700
But uh, yeah.
Yeah we are, we are such a

499
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:11,900
freaking collection of fears
that we don't want to.

500
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,600
To admit to own recognized.
Take a look at.

501
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,400
So I really appreciate the work
you're doing, and bringing some

502
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,200
light to this.
Thank you.

503
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,000
I feel like it's important work.
And, and I know it's important

504
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,100
work because I've talked to
hundreds of men.

505
00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:29,800
And, again, I want to thank
those men as the people who are

506
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,200
my primary teachers.
Because that's who have learned

507
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,000
about this from.
Is there telling me how

508
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,000
important it is?
And what a difference it makes

509
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,100
in their lives.
Yeah.

510
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:41,000
What day is always struck me
when I started realizing it.

511
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,400
Like so many And want to be seen
as Brave and courageous, but

512
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:48,900
that requires fear.
Yeah, if I deny I'm not afraid

513
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:50,600
of anything, but I am brave and
courageous.

514
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:56,700
Well, that can't be so people
who are without fear, in the

515
00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:06,100
face of danger are psychotic.
So intimacy, it's saying to be

516
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:10,500
scared about intimacy because it
is scary.

517
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:14,700
It is vulnerable.
It is it is exposed so it's not

518
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:19,400
crazy to be afraid.
That's great.

519
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:22,300
Huh?
One of the things you said

520
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:27,000
earlier about growing up and
growing old and I wanted to just

521
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,500
come at you because that you can
combine them.

522
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:34,600
And in my experience I find
there's really a difference

523
00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:37,000
between growing up and growing
old.

524
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,600
So I just I just want to ask
what you thought of that.

525
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:42,500
Well I'm growing up is growing
old.

526
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:48,400
Gives you the potential to grow
up but it was so the not

527
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,700
synonyms, then, right?
Know if Hayward be a lot better

528
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:55,700
world, but, you know, it has a
lot to do with who you hang out

529
00:29:55,700 --> 00:30:00,200
with all of us were, you know,
where tribal animals and we

530
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:06,300
watch other people and we we
look for things that we think

531
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:10,400
are working for them.
So I've been watching long-term,

532
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,800
happily married couples for a
long time.

533
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:16,700
And I watch very carefully and I
don't just mean in my office.

534
00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:21,200
I mean anywhere, I am in life
and I try to First and I try to

535
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,300
see what is it that's working
for them.

536
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:26,900
They've been together, 30 40 50
years, they seem quite happy

537
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:30,700
with each other and you know
it's a very it's a very simple,

538
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:33,700
not profound answer.
I've come up with, they have

539
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:38,400
nice to each other, you can see
that when they start to get to a

540
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,300
point of contention that they
don't, they don't bare their

541
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:47,900
teeth, their considerate,
thoughtful, their gentle.

542
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:52,400
Makes a big difference.
Yeah, yeah.

543
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,300
I mean a simple just just be
kind can be as simple as exactly

544
00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:58,000
of luck and, and to yourself as
well.

545
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,800
That's not just outward.
Kindness damaging.

546
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,200
Yeah, yeah.
So every step on some political

547
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,200
toes here, but I have a t-shirt
that I love.

548
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,400
That says make America kind
again.

549
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:11,400
Yeah.
Yeah, indeed.

550
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:13,000
Yeah.
I wish someone would run in such

551
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,900
a platform.
Yeah, I mean, what's the, what's

552
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:17,800
the best way for people to learn
more about you see all the

553
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,300
things that You're up to best
way, is to go to offer Weiss,

554
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:28,900
PhD.com, a VR, umw eiss PhD.com
and you will find a link to the

555
00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:31,200
mailing list there.
And if you sign up for the

556
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,400
mailing list, you will get a
free ebook called Life Lessons

557
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,600
Learned which is some of the
some of my favorite columns that

558
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,000
I've written online and then
you'll be on the mailing list

559
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,600
and you'll get and what I'm
doing now is looking for

560
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,900
communities that want to bring
You there as a Speaker Workshop

561
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:54,000
leader, whether it's your
church, or the Lions Club, or

562
00:31:54,500 --> 00:31:57,300
whoever because I'm doing these
workshops helping men and women,

563
00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:01,200
understand each other.
And so you can email me at that

564
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,200
link.
We are from Weiss PhD and if

565
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,600
you're interested in having me,
come to your community.

566
00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:09,400
Cool cool.
Yeah, I hope they get a

567
00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:13,600
long-lasting international tour
because yeah because this is

568
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,000
stuff that everybody needs to
hear and understand and and

569
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,500
ideally change as well, not just
live with those fears.

570
00:32:21,100 --> 00:32:25,700
Yeah, I mean it's sad to me.
One of the things I do in the

571
00:32:25,708 --> 00:32:29,100
workshops is I'll give a
scenario that couples often

572
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:33,100
experience and I'll ask the men
to write down on a postcard.

573
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:34,900
What are you thinking in this
scenario?

574
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,500
And I asked the women to write
down a postcard, what do you

575
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:38,900
think?
And then I'll read some of the

576
00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:40,900
postcards to the audience.
And, of course, the men have

577
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,700
absolutely no idea everything.
They would guess that the women

578
00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:47,300
are thinking is the opposite,
they're wrong.

579
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:51,400
And the women Completely wrong
about and it's like, you live in

580
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,100
the same house, you eat every
meal.

581
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:56,600
Now you eat every meal together,
you sleep in the same bed and

582
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,000
it's amazing how little, you
know, about each other.

583
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,500
It reminds me of the, of the
older, The Newlywed Game.

584
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:03,900
Yeah.
But, but it never end.

585
00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:06,600
I didn't learn anything more
about how long they're very,

586
00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:09,100
that's actually a great
reference point.

587
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:12,300
Yeah, so I think we want more
with each other.

588
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:15,700
I think, you know, underneath
the fears, we yearn to be

589
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:19,900
closer.
Maybe that's maybe that's the

590
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:22,200
answer.
But is there one thing that you

591
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:27,500
wish more men knew?
Well, I like that question.

592
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:36,100
I wish more men knew that women
want the same things they do

593
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:37,900
that.
They knew not to think about

594
00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:42,800
women as somehow like an
opponent but understood that the

595
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,600
person sitting across from them,
while they think about things

596
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,800
differently and feel differently
in the end, they want the same

597
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,200
things you do and that they're
not trying to criticize you or

598
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,600
put you down the trying to
connect with you.

599
00:33:56,900 --> 00:34:01,500
Trying to get closer to you.
Yeah, it makes sense like if

600
00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:04,400
guys communicate by busting each
other's balls and being joking

601
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,000
sarcastic.
Well the women they do that.

602
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,800
That's how I that's how I get to
get into this then so yeah, that

603
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,400
makes sense.
However, thanks for.

604
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,100
Thank you for your 10 months of
patients.

605
00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:17,100
I believe.
This conversation was well worth

606
00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:19,400
the wait.
I love everything that you are

607
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,600
up to everything you did with us
and as I mentioned to you before

608
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,100
we started, but yeah, come back,
anytime.

609
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:28,400
You have the desire, I will and
they encourage everyone.

610
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,000
To check out the website, check
out the book.

611
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,300
It's good stuff.
So thanks for joining us.

612
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:34,100
I'm thanks for joining us.
Everybody wherever you're

613
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:37,000
discovering real men.
Feel, Please Subscribe follow,

614
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,500
like, do whatever.
The thing is on the platform

615
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:42,500
that you're doing this thing on.
You can always write to me at

616
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:44,900
real men.
Feel at gmail.com, always glad

617
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:49,500
to hear from you and until next
time be kind to yourself.

618
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,100
There you go.
Thanks everybody.