Moving Beyond Being Your Own Worst Enemy

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Real men, filled with Andy Grant
encourages men to allow and

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express all of their emotions,
despite what you may have been

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told all emotions, do serve you
real, men feel is committed to

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engaging in discussions that
most men aren't having, but all

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men can benefit from if you
would like a one-on-one

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conversation to help you get
clear on what you want in life.

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And what's in your way of
getting there, visit the Andy

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Grant, to.com slash talk and
book a no obligation.

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No cost appointment all links
mentioned.

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In each episode are in the show
notes found on the blog at real

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men.
Feel dot-org.

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Now.
Let's get to it.

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Hello, and welcome to another
edition of real men.

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Feel dizzy, host, Andy Grant.
I've done a number of episodes

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on on race this year.
And I wonder if I have if I talk

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about this enough and but is it
Overkill, but then just more

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shit keeps happening.
And, you know, so I'm really

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glad to my guest today.
Is someone I I chatted with just

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briefly like I do with
potential, guess and it really

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has felt like we hit it off and
really enjoy.

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Talking to him and getting to
know him.

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So my guest today is author and
motivational speaker, Ishmael

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Brown.
Welcome to the show Ishmael and

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be, how you doing this evening.
Thank you, sir.

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Very good.
You knows, that's kind of

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blindly beating around the bush
earlier, but you know this week

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yet.
Another black man has was he was

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shot seven times in the back.
Jacob Lake in Wisconsin, and I

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was looking to head up to make
sure I had the name right in the

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town and then I see that a day
before a black man was shot to

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death.
With Louisiana, and I didn't I

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didn't know that at all.
So, you know, it feels you know,

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I feel like an idiot saying oh
this summer of troubles continue

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and it's not because that it's
not hasn't been to Summer.

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It's been right on time.
There you go.

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So with all this with, with
protesting, with black lives

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matter seemingly at its
Crescendo at its peak of people,

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you know, of all Races paying
attention and yet No, the

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violence keeps happening people.
I mean being shot seven times in

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the back.
I just I don't understand how

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that frickin what anyone is
thinking as a police officer

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doing that.
But with all that in my

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rambling?
I'm not sure why I'm feeling.

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So, how are you feeling right
now?

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I want to start by first saying
that, you know, there still

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needs to be a mandate to arrest,
the murderers of Brianna Taylor.

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We have not forgotten about
that.

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It's unfortunate.
That it has taken this long to

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receive some semblance of
justice.

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So my heart and my prayers go
out to her family, her friends

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and just everyone that's out
there.

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That's continuously fighting the
fight to ensure that those

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murderers are apprehended,
moving forward to Jacob Lake and

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thank God he survived.
But what I think about this is a

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very unique situation because
we've never seen it from the

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Survivor standpoint.
The individual who the harm was

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done again.
So, it's going to be on the DA's

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office to really stand up, and
take a stance against Injustice,

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dorm towards black people, and
very curious to see how that

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plays off again.
I'm thankful that he has

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survived.
My heart goes out to his

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children, who were able to
witness such a heinous crime

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committed against their father.
I just think about the PTSD,

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they may experience moving
forward just as the site of a

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police officer, the anxiety that
they, you know, It's

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heartbreaking.
What's a circle back to myself?

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What I'm feeling like it's.
It's beyond frustration.

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There's a tiredness but they're
still the willingness to fight

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and to speak out and to be an
advocate for men, women and

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children, who look like me.
We've been doing this since the

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beginning of times.
And I think 2020 was just, you

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know, enough is enough with the
entire world basically on a

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standstill because of At 19
that's been the blessing of it

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is that everyone is forced to
take in these regurgitated new

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cycles and see what's been going
on in our community since the

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Inception of time.
So that's the upside of it

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again, you know, just the
frustration is building, but I

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think it's a matter of adjusting
our reaction to once we feel

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disrespected and how we go about
handling these these heinous

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crimes in these.
Acts that are done against us,

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it just stand up and go, get
some type of action in regards

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to policy, change voting for our
local leaders and doing things

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in accordance to what's going to
be understood from a political

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standpoint.
And this is not a new show by

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the time, this airs things could
be a clear about the situation

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in Kenosha.
But as of right now, we've just

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seen this, this really ending of
the of the situation.

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And Jacob has turned his back on
police and heads to a car, which

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I assume this is and and he's
shot while he's like getting in

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his car or, you know, I, you
know, I can guess and make

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assumptions that the story is.
Oh, well, he was disobeying

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police orders.
They afraid they were afraid, he

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was grabbing a gun, whatever
might be.

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But the one thing, the one thing
that strikes me is Even if I was

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ignoring the police officer and
and walked away.

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I have no fear of being shot in
the back seven times where and

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and that is the I think the
tremendously telling part of

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this country.
Like there's really there's

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these two very separate
experiences of interacting with

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police.
There's two different Americas

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and it's triggering for me
because I've been assaulted by

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police physically in the front
yard of my home.

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I was 18.
Is old.

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There was a disturbance that my
home between, you know, my

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parents, and the police were
called, and my front door was

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kicked in and at that
standpoint, I don't know what's

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going on.
I was sleep and I just rushed

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into action because I felt as if
I can need to protect my home

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from whatever that outside
threat may or may not be.

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So as eyes get outside, I see it
is my stepfather and he's with

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these police officers.
Then a physical altercation

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ensues between him and I, then
the police attacked me.

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Physically attack me.
It's a Sunday morning.

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My neighbors are home.
They're beginning to come

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outside.
My mother screaming, my sister

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screaming.
It's 401.

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I'm not resisting.
You know, I'm screaming at the

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top of my lungs, please stop
hitting me and it got to the

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point where, you know, I was
taste several times.

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My mom was an employee of the
Actions office.

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I don't want to say the official
name, but she was a officer of

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their correction, one of their
correctional facilities and

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she's very understanding of how,
you know, these type of

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situations are supposed to be
handled and it was just an abuse

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of power.
I was apprehended and arrested

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and I was taken to jail.
Was that your first experience

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with police officers?
And in any way from a Brute

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Force perspective?
Yes, we've had interactions

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previously, you know, being
pulled over being harassed.

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Being asked to step out of a
vehicle for having a blessed

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tail life, you know, things
along those lines.

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Do you have guns in here?
Do you have drugs in here, you

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know, just being overly
interrogated.

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But that again was my very first
and I pray my last Physical

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altercation with police.
Okay.

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Okay.
So it it was the last and did

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that.
Did that experience turn you,

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will you more?
I don't know anti-police,

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fearful the police.
Like, how did it change your

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perception of the police?
If it did, it did it?

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I was fearful for my life.
Like, you know, there's always

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been a disconnect with the black
community and the police force,

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just in general, but I think we
all are.

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Warned against, you know, these
type of situations occurring.

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Once that actually happens to
you.

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There's a sense of shock and
panic.

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And again, it like, even on my
mug shot.

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My face is bruised.
I'm bleeding from my forearms

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that I was slammed on concrete.
And like I said, tase multiple

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times while being cuffed, so
it's just that obsessive force,

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that was demonstrated towards
me.

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And, like I said, my mom had to
watch all of that.

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So imagine the helplessness
there and I just think about I

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could easily been a hashtag.
I could have been on the back of

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a t-shirt.
You know, it could have been me.

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So it just there's this in a
fear and also like anxiety when

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I see police officers.
And so does that continue when

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you see other black people being
attacked being killed?

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Do you have your own PTSD and
Trauma from that?

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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As a reminder, every single time
you don't get over it.

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You just think about man.
I just God, that I was able to,

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you know, survive my situation
and my altercation but you know,

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it doesn't feel any better that
it's happening to anyone else,

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you know, because those are
families that are going to be

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grieving.
Those are children that are

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growing without parents and
growing up and understanding

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that.
Hey this could happen to me.

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What are some of the stereotypes
about being black, being a black

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male in America that that you
grew up with and, and, and

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impacted?
You, you know, I'm wondering if

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there are stereotypes that that
you notice, and you follow or

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their stereotypes, that you you
here and you kind of reject.

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Oh, I think, you know, growing
up you naturally by into those

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stereotypes because it's a, you
know, it's a conditioning that I

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have to be three times better
than my Colleagues or my white

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counterparts and peers.
There is this element of you

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know, I don't want to be a
statistic don't want to end up

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in prison.
I don't want to end up a victim

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of you know, crime and
criminality as a whole.

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So you spend your whole life
attended to combat that in

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addition to being raised with a
lack of empathy, not being able

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to express what you're feeling
internally.

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And there's a sense of being
disengaged with those around you

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because you're internalizing all
of these things and then there's

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this whole other aspect of it
where you don't feel as if

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anyone can understand what
you're experiencing, what you're

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going through and then compact
that with the teaching of your

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man, your strong, don't feel
you.

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Don't cry.
Who does that?

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And you become a ticking Time
Bomb.

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Just waiting to implode.
Before you start exploding on

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all of the Ships and people
around, you actually do love you

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and maybe well, but there's just
this Fury in this anger that's

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picked up inside of you because
of those stereotypes and because

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of the conditioning that goes
along with those, and of the

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stereotypes that you were
cognizant of growing up.

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Are they all still in place?
No, I had to do a lot of work to

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be able to shed that thinking
and get rid of that perspective.

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Like that's all of the name of
Your podcast, real men feel that

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is very valid and it just makes
me more cognizant of

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communicating and articulating
that very sentiment to the

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generations behind me.
And even the generations around

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and ahead of me because some men
never get that, lesser, never

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crack the glass ceiling and have
the understand that it's okay to

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feel.
It's okay to communicate who you

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are and what you're going
through.

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Any of my talk to recognize that
that man box and his deputies

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and the stereotypes that men are
supposed to live up to and not

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feel and not a mode and not cry,
but it does seem when I talk to

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black men that it's all that of
being masculine and then there's

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more for being black, like your.
Yeah.

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So you're supposed to be even
tougher.

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You're supposed to show even
less emotion, right?

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Because that was accurate.
Yeah.

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No.
That's pretty accurate.

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And just think about how that
impacts you and dating how that

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impacts you, you know just
across a variety of

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relationships.
Soooo, regardless of the dynamic

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like all you know how to do is
exemplify.

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This one, essence of self and
we're humans.

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We are naturally prone to
Evolution.

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We're very complex beings.
So to tell me and then stealing

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me that I have to be this at all
times.

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It's sickening.
Why do you think the limitations

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the boundaries of what a black
man is even tighter.

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Better than what a white man is
like, is it coming from overall

228
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white cultures?
Is it coming from Black Culture

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00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:26,100
onto yourself as a black man?
Wow, now that's a heavy

230
00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:31,200
question.
I think it's most of tooling,

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00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,400
you know, when to be accepted by
the masses won't fit into

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certain spaces can use Corporate
America.

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For example, with my hair.
I never had hair my tire like

234
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,800
mama.
Always told me that you're going

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to struggle to find employment.
If you grow your hair, you know,

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ensure that you have a low, nice
clean-cut keep.

237
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,700
Face, shaved, all of that
because you're going to be

238
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discriminated against those are
the type of conversations.

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00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:02,500
You have to have within our
households fast-forward, to

240
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,800
graduate college.
I step into my first career job

241
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,100
and I say, you know what,
growing my hair because now I'm

242
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,900
in the door.
I've already proven what my

243
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,400
value is to this company.
Not going to tell me any

244
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,600
differently.
Now, I'm going to be me because

245
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,600
I think that is a challenge that
were faced with, as the people.

246
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:23,800
How do we step into these
corporate Arenas and be our

247
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host?
Sales, when historically, we

248
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,300
have not been accepted, when you
look at the executive boards and

249
00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:32,300
the leadership.
You don't see people who look

250
00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:33,900
like us.
Now.

251
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,900
There are some companies who are
a little bit more diverse, but

252
00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:39,900
are they inclusive?
And what I mean by inclusive?

253
00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:42,900
Are they inclusive in regards to
the decision making when it

254
00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:46,200
comes to the direction of the
company, the values of the

255
00:14:46,208 --> 00:14:49,900
company, the ethics and so forth
in regards to the hiring.

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00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:56,000
That's the disparity.
So for me, I vow to be my

257
00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,000
complete and true self in every
space that I'm in and I value

258
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,900
that because there's a wholeness
because I have to be able to

259
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:08,400
look myself in the mirror day in
and day out and be at peace with

260
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,700
it, as who I am, is not
controlled by the perception or

261
00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:16,800
the opinions of others.
I hear that.

262
00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:20,800
I guess what I really want to
ask about is, is as a young man

263
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:26,700
that this this message of Keep
your emotions inside, right?

264
00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:29,000
That, that perhaps, you know,
being angry is, the only

265
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,300
emotion, or even, maybe even
angry angry.

266
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:33,100
You can't show that.
I was just supposed to be stoic

267
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:34,500
all the time show.
No, emotion.

268
00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:37,900
That does that?
Does that feel like it came from

269
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:42,900
Black Culture around you or
maybe with black Black Culture

270
00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:46,100
saying don't show any emotion
because fear of the greater

271
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,600
white culture around you would
punish you for showing any

272
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,000
emotion that does that make any
sense.

273
00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:56,500
No, it makes sense.
In my experience.

274
00:15:56,500 --> 00:16:00,900
It was taught to me from my
community as to how to handle

275
00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:08,700
myself with him, certain spaces,
how to carry myself and within

276
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:11,000
the household.
For example, like I grew up in a

277
00:16:11,008 --> 00:16:12,800
household a single-parent
household.

278
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:17,000
Where is my self, my younger
sister, my mother, my father did

279
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,100
not live in the household.
There were periods of time where

280
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:25,700
we did not speak to each other.
You know, year plus.

281
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:31,000
So, for me, there was the
expectation to be that man

282
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,200
within the household.
And how does a man exemplify

283
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,400
himself through this stoic,
understanding of life, that, you

284
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,600
know, there's a toughness to me.
I have it figured out.

285
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,400
So, that's where it came for, in
my experience.

286
00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:51,000
Got you and I get, you think it
was taught to you as a way to

287
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,800
keep you safe.
Or just as a way to just, just,

288
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,800
just how it's supposed to be
like, no one ever questioned it.

289
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,500
I think it's defense mechanism.
Like, this is how you get

290
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:06,400
through life.
We don't allow anyone to obtain

291
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,200
control over your emotions.
There's this do exist and the

292
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,400
toughness because as a man, you
were supposed to be the

293
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,200
protector, the provider, and all
of these other masculine like

294
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:27,200
characteristics for the home.
So it's a tandem combination of

295
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,800
those things.
So your your book is really your

296
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,200
Memoir is called My Own Worst
Enemy a black man's American

297
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,400
story.
So what are some of the ways

298
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,800
that you were Your Own Worst
Enemy?

299
00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:50,000
Oh a lot of a lot of
self-deprecating, wasn't the

300
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:56,800
greatest fan of who I was a lot
of self sabotaging buying into

301
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:03,000
those stereotypes and acting.
We not being able to get in

302
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,200
contact with my own feelings and
emotions.

303
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,800
I just did not have the words to
describe them or what I was

304
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,100
going through.
So for me, it was just me

305
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:17,600
subscribing to this idea of
Titan ISM, and I don't feel

306
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:23,100
anything and like I said this
hatred that I had about myself

307
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,600
that just manifested from
childhood well into my adult

308
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:33,000
years and those were all the
things that combine to make me

309
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,900
My Own Worst Enemy.
So you said you weren't a fan of

310
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,500
who you were and actually you
even hated yourself.

311
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,500
Were you was this like conscious
awareness in the moment or more

312
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:46,300
of a in hindsight?
You see this?

313
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,900
It was a hindsight thing.
I had to go to therapy to really

314
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:57,600
get a grasp of what my actions
were doing to self.

315
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:00,300
I could see what it was doing to
others and you know keeping

316
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:04,200
everyone at Bay and not allowing
anyone to demonstrate an

317
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,800
essence.
The love towards me because I

318
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,300
just seen so many particular
experiences, where, you know,

319
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:15,300
family members had done me
wrong, or done my family wrong.

320
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:18,700
My immediate family.
I seen friends turn their backs

321
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:24,300
on, you know, my household, we
were in need and, you know,

322
00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:28,400
specifically being homeless, we
were staying with the family

323
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,400
member, there was an altercation
between that family member my

324
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,400
mother and that family member
said, you know, what you and

325
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,400
your Got to go and I remember
being a kid and just, you know,

326
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,800
seeing all of my sister's toys
being thrown into the front yard

327
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,100
and it was like, for me, if a
family member would do that to

328
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:52,700
you, a stranger will kill me.
And that was the mindset, that

329
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:56,700
just it was a seed that was
planted that just manifested in

330
00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:00,500
the way that I view
relationships because I had this

331
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,100
concept in my mind that I can
make it through life by myself.

332
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:09,300
I don't need anyone.
I just need time and my own

333
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:12,900
ability to continue to push me
forward and Propel me through

334
00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,900
life.
And that was a part of being My

335
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:19,200
Own Worst Enemy because I wasn't
the warrant.

336
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,800
I didn't allow myself to trust
others or give people the

337
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,600
benefit of the doubt.
To even prove me wrong.

338
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,800
I just wrote them off of jump.
So how did you come to realize

339
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:39,000
that you were your worst enemy?
To therapy, being able to

340
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:45,200
identify my own wrongdoings.
Any situations again not

341
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,900
allowing people the benefit of
Doubt, to express their love, to

342
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:51,400
show me that they were different
than, you know, that particular

343
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,300
family member being able to open
up my heart into one.

344
00:20:55,300 --> 00:21:00,400
Forgive myself for the
self-deprecation, not believing

345
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,900
in who I was subscribing to
those.

346
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:08,900
False ideas of Titan ISM and you
know being tough I had to

347
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:13,000
forgive me that's where it
started and being able to grow

348
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,300
from there through therapy,
through having these

349
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:20,900
conversations and really going
in depth with how all of it was

350
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:25,500
rooted in my childhood and it
really put a blockade around me

351
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:28,600
and served as a defense
mechanism.

352
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,800
So I wouldn't get hurt.
That was my entire fear of being

353
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:37,000
hurt being let down by people
because Again, you know, you've

354
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,500
been done wrong such an early
age.

355
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,400
It's like a tattoo on the mine.
May not always can see it, but,

356
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,100
you know, it's there and that's
what it was for me.

357
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:52,200
It was a reinforcement of don't
trust anyone.

358
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,100
No one really cares about you
continue to push through life.

359
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:59,600
You got this, you can take on
this whole big world out there.

360
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:06,500
By yourself and through therapy.
Like I said, I had to just said

361
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,300
all of that.
I had to start by forgiving

362
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:15,200
myself telling myself that I
loved me, which was a journey

363
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:20,700
and extending forgiveness, you
know, so that family member and

364
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:23,300
two other people around me who I
felt.

365
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:29,500
As if disappointed me one being
my father specifically, I set

366
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:33,900
these expectations for
individuals and they didn't meet

367
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,400
those expectations.
Oh, I don't want anything to do

368
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,500
with them.
The role that I played.

369
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,600
In that was that I failed to
communicate, what my

370
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:48,400
expectations were.
So how could they ever know what

371
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,200
I need from them across all
these relationships in order for

372
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,900
us to have a fruitful
relationship?

373
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,300
If I don't ever take the time to
inform them of that?

374
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,700
So that was my journey of
shedding that enemy, so it

375
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:07,200
sounds like from a really young
age.

376
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,800
It was just embedded in your
mind that the world is really an

377
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,100
unsafe place.
You've got you, and that's all

378
00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:16,400
you've got, and all she read
this, you're this emotionally

379
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,400
tightened being, you know, not
really, really not encourage the

380
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,700
feel, you know, willing to feel
because feelings lead to you

381
00:23:22,708 --> 00:23:27,700
getting hurt.
So, What happened to get you to

382
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:31,000
finally open up and even
consider pursuing therapy?

383
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,700
I remember being in college.
This was my junior year.

384
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:37,700
It was during a summer.
I went to the University of

385
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:39,600
Central.
Florida, also known as the

386
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:47,300
Harvard of the South go Knights,
and I had just completed a test

387
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,500
in our testing center.
You know, it gives you your gray

388
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:53,700
right away.
I passed, I had to be and I was

389
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:59,700
walking from our Student Union
on this, this large segment of

390
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:01,900
grass called memory mall.
Heading to my car.

391
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,000
R and I just started
hysterically crying.

392
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,600
That was very uncharacteristic
of the way.

393
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,500
I carry myself.
It was shocking.

394
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,200
I couldn't stop.
And it was beyond concerning at

395
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,000
that point and to give you a
little context as to how I carry

396
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,700
myself emotionally.
I didn't see my mom cry until I

397
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:33,600
was 17 years old and I kind of
looked at her like what's wrong

398
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,700
with you?
You need to get it together

399
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,600
because she never existed.
Amplified that.

400
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:45,100
So again, back to being fed
these stereotypes.

401
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,600
I also got a piece of it for my
mother because she was so tough

402
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,500
and she felt as if you know, I
have to raise a man.

403
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:58,800
I'm not one, but I'm going to do
certain things to ensure that he

404
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,000
knows how to take on adversity
in life.

405
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,400
And that was one of them.
Now, in hindsight, you know,

406
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,400
years later.
She, and I admire her for doing

407
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,700
and she said, you know, that was
one of our biggest mistakes not

408
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,300
showing you that emotion, and
letting, you know, it's okay to

409
00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:18,300
feel and it just made you so
hard and so serious.

410
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:20,600
And you know, that wasn't the
intent.

411
00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:23,500
So, I just thought I was
incredibly bright.

412
00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:27,100
With her, but back to that
moment.

413
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,200
I just couldn't stop myself from
crying and I didn't know why I

414
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,200
was going through this.
I didn't know why I was crying

415
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,100
and I just felt utterly
embarrassed because people were

416
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:42,200
walking by me like hey, are you
okay, you know, I didn't know

417
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,300
what to say.
At that moment.

418
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:50,500
I didn't have words and in that
very.

419
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:55,700
Moment I recognized that I
needed help.

420
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,400
Like I can't continue to carry
everything that's on my

421
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,600
shoulders.
I can't continue to take on This

422
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,500
World by myself.
I need help.

423
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,500
It is fantastic.
That was that that was your

424
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:15,300
decision because for so many men
for so many people they'll get

425
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:18,500
to that point of feeling.
Bad emotions are bubbling over

426
00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:23,400
and they'll choose some sort of
practice of addiction to cover

427
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,000
it up.
Right?

428
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,000
So that that you sought help.
I guess I just, you know,

429
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:32,800
commend you greatly and I tell
people this all the time and

430
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,300
it's from my own experience and
experience with clients, you

431
00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:37,600
know, especially Well, that's a
I don't feel.

432
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,800
I've never motions know, we all
have them and they look like

433
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,900
they're all going to be felt.
And they'll come out when you

434
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:45,900
least expect it and sideways
ways.

435
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:49,000
But every emotion you've ever
stuff is going to be felt before

436
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,900
you die.
You can get in front of it

437
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:54,100
right?
Do some healing deal with it or

438
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:58,100
you know, or yeah, it'll Bowl
you over like your emotions will

439
00:26:58,100 --> 00:27:03,000
be felt and then they dry you
and I'll say, you know, that was

440
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,900
my first experience with Even
being open to therapy because,

441
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:10,100
you know, it was taboo.
You know, that's not something

442
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:12,700
black people did at that time
and I was like, I'm not doing

443
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:16,400
that, but there was a woman in
my life who encouraged, she's

444
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,500
like, you know what?
I recommend you go speaking into

445
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:23,100
there was this incredible one
who work at our school named.

446
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:25,300
Dr. Jermaine.
Graham to this day.

447
00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:29,700
I still love her and adore her
so much, but she opened her door

448
00:27:29,700 --> 00:27:33,700
to hear me out.
And that was the difference.

449
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:39,200
I just needed an ear.
Someone who was far removed from

450
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,100
all these situations.
She didn't have a horse in the

451
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:45,500
race and she could be completely
objective and she hurt me out

452
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,200
and I was like, okay, so maybe
therapy isn't so bad.

453
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,700
Maybe I should you know taking
this a little bit serious at

454
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:57,600
that time.
I didn't honestly I would only

455
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,400
go speak to her on emergency
basis when I got to that cry

456
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,400
moment because I didn't cry how
fast this is odd.

457
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,100
This is weird.
That's when I felt compelled to

458
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,000
go speak with her.
It wasn't till later in life.

459
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,100
That.
I felt the need to.

460
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:20,700
Attend therapy on a regular
basis and be consistent with the

461
00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:26,500
treatment.
Yeah, and going back to your

462
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:29,100
mom.
And and, and I've seen that, I

463
00:28:29,108 --> 00:28:31,200
was raised by a single mom too.
And there can be this.

464
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:34,200
You know, I'm going to
overcompensate make sure I'm

465
00:28:34,208 --> 00:28:37,200
reason a good man and they buy
into the worst stereotypes of

466
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,700
what a man means.
And so that you just get taught

467
00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:43,100
this distorted version of a
distortion to begin with but

468
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:47,400
because really, you know,
encouraging anyone to not feel

469
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:52,500
is making them less resilient.
If you can freely get upset and

470
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,800
cry and feel guilty and feel
happy and joyous, like, great

471
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,700
that you're really going to take
life with the punches.

472
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,100
And you can deal with it that
resilience is allowing your

473
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:04,800
emotions to flow.
Otherwise you are you doing is

474
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,800
prolonging it.
Yeah, right.

475
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:08,600
Yeah.
I find, you know, when we're

476
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,900
willing to feel like, like, you
know, that moment you just

477
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:14,300
overcome start crying.
And instead of running and

478
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:16,200
hiding, I'm gonna drink this
way.

479
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,000
I'm going to find a way to just
shut this down even harder.

480
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,300
Like, no.
Well, I'm all right.

481
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,000
I'm gonna let this Happen.
And it's probably because you're

482
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,900
on a college campus that people
stopped and said are you all

483
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:29,200
right?
Because I've had experiences of

484
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:31,600
just breaking down and bawling
and public.

485
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,000
And once I remember at an
airport just sitting in an

486
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,200
airport gate and I'm ballin like
noisy, ugly balling, not just a

487
00:29:38,208 --> 00:29:41,800
few tears.
No one but people avoid me I

488
00:29:41,808 --> 00:29:44,200
became invisible.
So I was like, there's nothing

489
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,100
more invisible Society in the
crying man like me and no one,

490
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:50,700
no one, no one's approaching for
shit, but maybe as Younger man,

491
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:53,600
you know, you know your peers
are more willing but out in

492
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,600
public with the masses of our
wonderful Society.

493
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Like nobody gave a shit about
me.

494
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,900
You said something interesting.
There?

495
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:05,700
It made me think about Out.
Something Chris Rock said, on

496
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:10,400
one of his stand-up.
She said, a man is expected to

497
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,000
suffer in silence, in this
society.

498
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,500
And I had to sit with that.
Like, wow, we really are.

499
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,300
Yeah.
I say the show the time, like,

500
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:24,300
silence kills men.
Mmm, right.

501
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:28,700
And we suffered long enough and
and suffering ends too often

502
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,900
with guys trying to die.
Yeah, or the suffering does lead

503
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:35,700
to premature death from
physical, something's from, you

504
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:39,100
know, it creates disease.
You know, I said every emotion

505
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:42,400
is going to be felt and it can
be felt eating an ulcer, right?

506
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,400
It can be felt, you know, just
feeding Decay and disease and

507
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,300
you know, we all deserve better
than that.

508
00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:58,500
Nobody nobody needs to suffer.
And so I'm so glad and and proud

509
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:03,300
of you it for you that that you
Chose to break that taboo of

510
00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:05,900
being silent of keeping it all
in and shutting it down because

511
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:09,400
again, it, yeah, it just harms
you and it passes on to everyone

512
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,300
else, you know, you know at I
don't think at the end of your

513
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:14,900
life, you're gonna be like, oh
man.

514
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:20,900
I wish they'd just shut up more.
That's not indefinitely over and

515
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:23,300
yeah, like that's not a no one.
Yeah.

516
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:29,600
So at what point for you ask?
Did you reach that state of?

517
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,200
You know what I can't Do this
alone anymore?

518
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:37,100
I don't recommend my path.
So for me, I know, I kept

519
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,000
everything quite from a really
young age like you.

520
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,500
I thought the world's unsafe.
It's just me, but I decided to

521
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:46,700
check out.
It was only after multiple

522
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:49,700
failed attempts to end my life
that I realized.

523
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:51,300
All right.
Well, I'm not good at this

524
00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:53,200
either.
So, maybe I'm supposed to be

525
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,300
here and there's a better way
that I can live my life and

526
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:57,700
that's what started me to open
up and see.

527
00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:01,700
But yeah, I been offered help.
I'd been sent to Is and I will

528
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:03,400
just fly.
I was just telling stories up.

529
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:04,700
Everything's great.
Yep.

530
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:05,800
See you.
Bye.

531
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:12,100
Yeah, because again, it's refer
anyone you until you are willing

532
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:16,000
to be helped.
Nobody can help you what you

533
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,500
mentioned, suicide attempts.
And I also had my experience

534
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:26,400
with that and it was something
that after the fact it was so

535
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,100
devastating.
I just received it in work.

536
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:34,700
I tried to shoot myself once and
to your point.

537
00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:40,200
I wasn't good at that either.
I remember being at my

538
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:46,000
girlfriend's house at the time.
She sleep in the living room at

539
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:51,400
recently purchased a AR-15 why
no particular reason.

540
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,500
And I had just reached my end.
I was like, you know, nothing's

541
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:03,300
looking up.
I don't see the light at the end

542
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:09,700
of the tunnel and I'm really I'm
over, you know, I felt as if my

543
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:16,100
life had been dealt more hurdles
and adversity than any victories

544
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:21,400
and wins.
So, I remember loading the

545
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,700
magazine and I get to the last
bullet.

546
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:36,400
Pop it in the lower of the
weapon and you know, everything

547
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,900
seems fine cock it, and I pulled
the trigger.

548
00:33:41,300 --> 00:33:46,700
Nothing happens.
And I start hearing this, funny,

549
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:49,300
click, click click noise, and
mind you.

550
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:54,400
I'm sterically crying, but in
silence and it's one of those

551
00:33:54,400 --> 00:34:02,000
moments and you know, after I
came back to my logical State, I

552
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,100
looked at the weapon, put the
bullet in backwards.

553
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:13,100
So, all twenty nine bullets
proceeding that last one we're

554
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:18,600
in perfectly fine.
And that was the wake-up.

555
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,300
Call that I needed.
That was the victory.

556
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,600
That was the wind like hey, it's
not your time.

557
00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:34,000
Continue to push forward.
You're better than this and you

558
00:34:34,007 --> 00:34:37,900
know, I never shared that, I
never talked about it, you know,

559
00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:43,000
I wrote about in my book and
that was a very dark time.

560
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,100
Obviously, it was even darker,
right?

561
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:50,800
About just recollecting all of
those emotions and feeling and

562
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,500
trying to convey it through
words for people to consume.

563
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,300
So you could imagine when you
know, the book is released and

564
00:34:58,300 --> 00:35:02,700
people around me who have If
idea of who I am and what I've

565
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:05,500
been through and you know,
you've always been so strong.

566
00:35:05,900 --> 00:35:10,900
So for them to read that, you
know, it's one thing to hear

567
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:13,900
when you can read it over and
over again.

568
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:16,700
It really settles into the mind
of like man.

569
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:20,500
He's really had his fair share
of dark moments.

570
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,500
Well, I really appreciate you
sharing that here.

571
00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:32,300
I know it's not not fun or easy,
but I do believe it is necessary

572
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,200
and and really serves a higher
purpose, right?

573
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,300
Much like that bullet being put
in wrong served a higher

574
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:43,900
purpose.
All right, cool.

575
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:48,900
So, what did prompt you to, to
want to write your book to share

576
00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:52,000
your story?
The book, save my life.

577
00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:54,200
That's the best way to describe
it.

578
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,200
Like that was my way of getting
all the traumas out and

579
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,200
everything.
I was experiencing everything

580
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,800
that was holding for years
because I shouldn't talk about

581
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:04,800
it.
What I'm feeling or what I'm

582
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,700
going through.
That was my out is very

583
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:10,900
therapeutic for me, you know,
granted it was difficult at

584
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:15,600
times to, you know, think about
those situations again, and the

585
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,300
funny thing is we were writing a
memoir this still researching

586
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:23,400
it.
You know, I've about myself

587
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:26,800
calling my mom and asking
certain questions around certain

588
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,500
situations that, you know, I was
too young to remember and just

589
00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:36,100
gaining her perspective and her
insight about, you know, those

590
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:40,400
situations specifically when she
was pregnant.

591
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,700
The doctor actually recommended
that my parents support me.

592
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,300
They said that, you know, if
they go through with this

593
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,100
pregnancy, See that I'll be
confined to a wheelchair for the

594
00:36:52,107 --> 00:36:54,100
rest of my life and they will
have to take care of me.

595
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,100
So it's more of a flight risk of
the hazard to go forward and

596
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:01,600
he's like hey, you guys are
young, you can try again.

597
00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:06,600
So hearing her tell me that
because I always knew she was

598
00:37:06,607 --> 00:37:08,100
like, yeah, you know, I had
complications with her

599
00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:09,800
pregnancy, but that's where it
stopped.

600
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:14,200
But as I'm finding out more,
it's just like, wow.

601
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:21,000
There's been adversity since
birth and it just clicked in my

602
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,800
mind, that I really do have a
purpose because of my mother

603
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,800
wasn't strong enough or was it
solidified and her faith.

604
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:30,200
I wouldn't be here today.
Like, I'm not confined to a

605
00:37:30,207 --> 00:37:33,200
wheelchair like a, you know, I
can walk.

606
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,100
I can talk, I can, you know, see
here all of the things that you

607
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:37,900
know, most people probably take
for granted.

608
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:44,700
I've been blessed with so that
very potentially dark.

609
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,300
Morbid situation turned into a
beautiful blessing.

610
00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:53,600
So for me, I just have a gave me
a different outlook on life.

611
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,200
But you know what, I've been
tested from the beginning keeps

612
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,700
going was was was that just a
shitty doctor was he just

613
00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:05,400
misreading things like it.
If you've been healthy all your

614
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,200
life, like what, what the hell?
What do they think was wrong?

615
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,400
No lie.
Andy.

616
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,800
I've literally been healthy all
my life.

617
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:15,000
I haven't had any major.
Sorry, man.

618
00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:17,400
Hope your mom got a new doctor.
That's awesome.

619
00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:24,700
And when we talked earlier,
you've actually never read your

620
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:27,700
book.
No, it's too hard for me.

621
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:31,500
And I just want to tell everyone
watching this and listening.

622
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,500
I wrote it.
I wrote every single work, but

623
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,900
for me and I went through
numerous drafts and reviews and

624
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:43,900
so forth, but I've never sat
down and read it from top to

625
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,300
bottom.
Even in my, you know, editing

626
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:48,600
process a chapter, at a time, go
through.

627
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,100
But as far as reading and top
and bottom, it's hard.

628
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:55,100
It's just as difficult.
Like a lot of those situations.

629
00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:58,300
I've moved past.
I found some resolved there,

630
00:38:58,300 --> 00:38:59,600
but, you know, some of those
situations.

631
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:06,200
It's just too painful to sit
there with however, I made a

632
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,100
made a commitment to myself, you
know.

633
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,700
When I decide to bring children
to this world, I promised myself

634
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:17,900
that I would read it before
they're born because at some

635
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:21,300
point once they get older, I
want to be able to give that to

636
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:23,200
them.
So they can have a full scope of

637
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,100
who their father was at one
point in his life to understand

638
00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:29,900
that.
Hey Daddy is human.

639
00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:31,900
He's not perfect.
He's not, you know, don't put me

640
00:39:31,908 --> 00:39:35,000
on his pedestal I made mistakes
because I think that's very

641
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,000
powerful and my job.
I've never raised kids.

642
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,800
So this is just me speculating
here.

643
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,100
I just think that it's important
to give them your failures and

644
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:47,800
paint the whole Collective
picture as to what life is about

645
00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:52,100
who you are and don't Shield
them from the privilege of life,

646
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,800
you know, do it and tablespoons
because you don't want them to

647
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,200
grow up, you know, paranoid or
anything like that, but just

648
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,200
have to understand that hate
life will test you.

649
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,500
It's on you to continuously get
up and keep going.

650
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:09,500
And again as long as you get up
and keep going if Or my

651
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:11,800
perspective.
Well, your life had no failures

652
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,800
because you always tip going
exactly.

653
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:18,700
Well, good.
I hope and now you you wrote

654
00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:21,400
your Memoir.
You're in your mid-20s when you

655
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,500
wrote this.
Yeah, so I started that book.

656
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:28,800
When I was 21.
I finished it at 25, and it came

657
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,700
out on my 26th, birthday.
All right, so that's pretty

658
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:37,800
young for a memoir.
So, do you do, you do you aspire

659
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,500
to have so many more?
Adventures and winds.

660
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:44,000
That they'll be a part two of
your story.

661
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:46,900
There's definitely gonna be a
part two, but way later in the

662
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:51,700
class, I need a break, you know,
I say that because it's you

663
00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:54,800
know, I've heard that frequently
like man you wrote A Memoir,

664
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,100
you're only in your twenties.
Like how why?

665
00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:00,800
But for me it just spoke to they
just don't have an understanding

666
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,700
of who I am or what I've been
through.

667
00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:05,500
You know, I even had close
friends and families like you

668
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:08,100
writing a book about your life,
whatever you've done.

669
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:11,200
But then when they They were
able to sit with it.

670
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:16,100
And I just it's like, I get it
now, you need it to do this, and

671
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:20,100
I'm happy that I took that leap
of faith to go about writing

672
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:24,200
that book and incorporating, the
wrongness and all of the

673
00:41:24,207 --> 00:41:28,100
traumatic experiences.
Without fear, like, I truly feel

674
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:32,900
brave for doing that and you are
so good on you.

675
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:37,900
So, you know, you've had your,
your physical run-ins with the

676
00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:41,800
police.
You you've been in prison and

677
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,400
there's one chapter in your book
called called thug life.

678
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:49,800
So.
Please tell me what thug life

679
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,000
means.
So thug, life is an acronym by

680
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,400
the late great, Tupac Shakur,
and it means the hate you give

681
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,400
the hate you give little infants
fucks everyone.

682
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:08,300
And what that means is that
level of conditioning that you

683
00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:11,200
give our children and you
continuously feed them that

684
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:16,100
hatred of self and not being
accepted in this larger society.

685
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:21,900
it's going to manifest into them
and it's going to come out in a

686
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:25,400
destructive facet.
And that's what Thug Life

687
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,000
represents.
So I wanted you to share that

688
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,200
because I never knew that seen
it.

689
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,300
I never realized was an acronym
seen like at no freaking idea.

690
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,800
So I imagine that would you
already of other middle-aged

691
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,200
white guys.
Wait with everyone.

692
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,600
There's no freaking idea that
that was narrated him and it's

693
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,200
like why do you want to be
thugs?

694
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,100
I don't get it.
Why?

695
00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:49,500
What's no?
And again it that this almost

696
00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:53,600
the the as groups have their for
black of a better term to no

697
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,200
secret.
Image, it creates that more

698
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,800
separation some like, oh, that
should be.

699
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,000
Oh, wow.
That's that's a great freaking

700
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,700
acronym.
And it is right.

701
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,300
Yeah.
I totally get it and shit.

702
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:10,200
An interesting thing about it,
that was actually his take on a

703
00:43:10,207 --> 00:43:12,800
movement.
The intent for thug life was to

704
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,600
be like a new Black Panther
Party, you know, his mother

705
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,900
wasn't an amazing Panther.
He came from that ilk of

706
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:24,000
revolutionaries.
So for him.

707
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:26,800
That was his wave and that was
his responsibility within the

708
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,400
movement thug life.
So he was much more political

709
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,300
than than white Society seeing
it.

710
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:37,400
Oh, it's, you know, thanks to
gangster, wannabe.

711
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,300
More of that more that stuff and
it's just Old Glory glamorizing

712
00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:42,800
crime.
He was really, really, there was

713
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,300
a higher purpose.
Cool.

714
00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:51,300
No, since you ever read the book
at one point, you also taught in

715
00:43:51,300 --> 00:43:54,300
this chapter on women and you
say that you cheated on every We

716
00:43:54,300 --> 00:43:58,000
girlfriend or women that you
ever cared about him because you

717
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,200
sit, you said that it was
because you didn't have any

718
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:07,100
respect for a woman's worth.
When or should I say when, when,

719
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:10,900
or if did you realize that
wasn't wasn't helping you?

720
00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:18,400
Or the, I definitely realized.
Let's be clear that I realized

721
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:25,200
that when I had went through a
terrible heartbreak, and, you

722
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,400
know, relationship.
I had recently moved to the

723
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:34,100
Washington DC area.
And that's when I really Got to

724
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:39,200
sit with myself and it just gave
me a time to what I consider a

725
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,300
world of mirrors.
I was surrounded by myself.

726
00:44:44,300 --> 00:44:48,100
And I couldn't escape the images
being reflected back to me, you

727
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:50,500
know, and at that time, the
report images because the way I

728
00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:53,700
had exemplify myself, you know,
through the course of how I

729
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:56,400
treat it women.
And for me, I just viewed it.

730
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,200
As you know, this is karma for
all of the wrong that you've

731
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,400
done, the lies that you told the
selfishness that you exhibited.

732
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,100
Because for me, it is all about
what I wanted and when I wanted

733
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:12,200
it and I think there's this huge
misconception that the way that

734
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,300
a man treats his mother.
Other his sister is how you

735
00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:16,800
treat his, that's not true.
Who.

736
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,300
So let's just get that out
there.

737
00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:21,000
That's not true.
Because I was raised by my

738
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,000
mother, had a great respect from
my mother.

739
00:45:23,300 --> 00:45:27,700
Don't get me wrong, you know, we
had our spats, but she didn't

740
00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:29,700
raise me to treat women in that
faster.

741
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,900
So, the fact that I demonstrate
at myself that way, it just

742
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:38,200
spoke to the lack of respect
that I have for their gentleness

743
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:43,800
and them as human beings first
and foremost, but I say a lot of

744
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,800
it.
Reflected back to what I saw

745
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:52,600
from men around me growing up.
Men around me really

746
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:57,700
perpetuated, you know, having
multiple women at their disposal

747
00:45:57,700 --> 00:46:01,800
and you know, it was in the
music that I listened to my

748
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,300
peers.
Also participated in such

749
00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:08,100
actions.
So for me, oh, this is what I'm

750
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:12,300
supposed to do.
But again, you know, you get a

751
00:46:12,300 --> 00:46:15,900
little bit older, you leave this
Trail of Tears and all of this

752
00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:20,900
destruction only to run right
into it when it happens to you.

753
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,000
And at that point I say, you
know what, this isn't right, you

754
00:46:25,008 --> 00:46:28,700
know, like, I made women feel
like this.

755
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,100
Yeah, I gotta chill out because
it didn't feel good.

756
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,300
Good.
Hey, it's good to recognize that

757
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:39,400
and yeah, you know, I share
often.

758
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,800
We Can't change anything until
we're aware of it.

759
00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:45,500
Yeah.
So until you like feel it,

760
00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:47,400
notice it.
You can have a bit of empathy.

761
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,500
You see, you know, via the
effects that you haven't people

762
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:52,300
the and you experience the
effects that other people's

763
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:55,200
actions have on you and you and
you don't like it, then you can

764
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:00,000
realize, oh, I'm not gonna do
that anymore, but I wish male

765
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,300
you've, you've gone through a
lot in your, in your, you know,

766
00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:08,500
still young life.
And you know, you've learned the

767
00:47:08,900 --> 00:47:10,200
healing and the power of
sharing.

768
00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:14,400
Your story and and the power and
healing of therapy and forgiving

769
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,400
yourself.
So I wonder you know, you've

770
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,000
gone through the stereotypes
living different ways for you.

771
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,300
What does it mean to be a man
today?

772
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:34,000
Responsible.
Taking being accountable, you

773
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,900
know for the choices that you
make as a man and setting an

774
00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:42,900
example, you know for everyone
around you.

775
00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:47,000
And that's the big.
Those are the biggest factors

776
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,400
and just exemplifying yourself
as being discipline discipline

777
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:58,000
is the key to everything.
Because if you are able to put

778
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,400
One Foot In Front Of Another,
there's always going to be for

779
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,800
Progress.
No matter what obstacles you

780
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:09,700
walk into is great to walk into
them instead of falling to them.

781
00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:15,300
And is there one thing?
It might be one of those things

782
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:16,400
or something else.
Entirely.

783
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,300
Is there.
Is there something you wish more

784
00:48:18,300 --> 00:48:22,800
men knew?
That is okay to feel like that

785
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,700
it just that simple.
It's okay to express what you're

786
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:29,200
going through.
I think it's imperative that you

787
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,900
find individuals that are
emotionally intelligent enough

788
00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:40,600
and equipped with the tools to
give you that space to act as a

789
00:48:40,607 --> 00:48:44,500
sounding board and just
encourage you to do more of it.

790
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,200
And I just really feel like
that, you know.

791
00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:51,700
Every man needs that couldn't
agree more.

792
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:58,200
What you looking forward to?
I'm looking forward to getting a

793
00:48:58,207 --> 00:48:59,300
haircut.
It's a boy.

794
00:49:06,700 --> 00:49:09,900
I'm working on a book right now.
And this one is completely

795
00:49:09,900 --> 00:49:14,200
different than my first one.
My first one being the Memoir

796
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,700
this one.
It's Untitled right now.

797
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:20,800
So Gob still working through
that but it's just a polar

798
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:25,200
opposite of my first book.
This one is actually fiction and

799
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,600
it's going to be a series.
I can give you that first, but

800
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,100
I'm excited for it because it's
a new challenge.

801
00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:36,300
I'm someone who is a thrill.
Junkie, it made Italy.

802
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:42,500
And for me, my Thrills are
associated with overcoming

803
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:45,700
challenges.
And, you know, for someone else

804
00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:49,800
that may seem like, or that may
appear as achieving a goal.

805
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,400
But for me, it's like, okay.
I've never done that before.

806
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,800
I'm going to go do it.
So that's the thrill for me.

807
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,200
Like, okay cool.
I'm going to do this.

808
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,000
I'm going to kill it.
So I'm excited.

809
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,800
It's different.
I had to take a step back from

810
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,800
writing to go do some research
and understand the craft of

811
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,800
fiction writing because it's a
polar opposite.

812
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,700
From again, you know, the
nonfiction and the the Memoir

813
00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:17,800
Lane, so I had to take some time
to research some of the people

814
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,200
that I consider our greats in
that space.

815
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:24,200
So what's the best way people
can?

816
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,000
Follow you connect with.
You see what you're up to

817
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:31,400
Instagram.
It's Ishmael is ma e.

818
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,600
L-- underscore Brown, BR o WN &
Twitter.

819
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:40,700
It's Ishmael underscore Brown
and the number three cool.

820
00:50:40,900 --> 00:50:42,200
And where can people find your
book?

821
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,100
Is?
It is available, everywhere.

822
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,400
It is available on Amazon, is
also available on my website,

823
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,600
which is Ishmael brown.com.
And that link is also in my bio

824
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:58,000
on Instagram and We're cool.
I really appreciate you.

825
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,000
Sharing your book with the world
and your time today here with

826
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,600
us, fucking take care of
yourself.

827
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,600
Be safe, where we going fucking
heartbreaking that to like,

828
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,300
really say that and mean, it's
so much to black men, a meeting.

829
00:51:13,100 --> 00:51:15,700
But damn it.
Yeah, because your New York

830
00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:17,500
City, right?
Yes.

831
00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:18,300
Yeah.
All right.

832
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,500
Keep your head down, man.
All right, and you shouldn't

833
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:23,900
play with fuck that footnote.
Sorry, Put Your Head Up, Put

834
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:26,100
Your Head Up.
Like way I'm gonna want to just

835
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:28,300
talk about not shrinking and am
trying to shrink it.

836
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:32,200
All right, just be safe.
All right, you know how to do

837
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,700
it.
I think you visit real

838
00:51:34,700 --> 00:51:37,100
midfielder dog.
Everyone will have links for all

839
00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:41,200
the Ishmael has contacts and
books and ways for you to get in

840
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,200
touch with him and follow him
and and encouraged him to have

841
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,200
enough Adventures for that.
That Memoir part 2, at some

842
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:53,100
point, that was going to be way
better with a more boxy.

843
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,100
And thank you for joining us.
Wherever you're listening to

844
00:51:58,100 --> 00:52:01,300
real men, feel give a like a
subscription, share a review

845
00:52:01,300 --> 00:52:05,400
with always appreciated.
And until next time, don't

846
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,200
suffer in silence, talk to
someone reach out to me.

847
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,100
Don't have someone to talk to or
buggies running.

848
00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:14,900
They'll talk you to be.
Well, everybody.

849
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,500
Thank you for listening to real
men.

850
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:20,900
Field contact us at real men,
feel at gmail.com.

851
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:24,100
Join the private, real men
field, Facebook group at

852
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,400
Book.com slash groups / real
men.

853
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,600
Field, learn more about author
coach and Keeler, Andy, Grant at

854
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,700
the ante.
Grants.com., If you enjoyed this

855
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:36,600
episode, it would help us
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856
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,500
If you gave a review wherever
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857
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:44,100
takes less than a minute and
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858
00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:45,300
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Feel.