Navigating Spiritual Awakenings

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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This is your host, author,
coach, and healer, Andy Grant.

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You can learn more about me by
visiting the andygrant.com.

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Real Men Feel reminds men that
they're human beings and they

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have the right to experience and
express all of their emotions.

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We have conversations that most
men are not having, but that all

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men can benefit from.
My guest today is Katie Turner.

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Katie is a registered
psychologist, speaker, and the

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author of Fuck Toxic
Spirituality, Avoiding Red

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Flags, and Navigating the
Spiritual Path with Integrity.

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She has studied a wide range of
Western psychological approaches

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and Eastern healing techniques.
Katie's mission is to bring

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together the science of
psychology and the practice of

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spirituality.
We discussed the challenges

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along the spiritual journey, red
flags to be wary of, and the

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power of lived experiences.
Katie shares her views on

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spirituality, awakenings,
intuition, toxic positivity, and

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much more.
Stick around to the end for

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access to Katie's quiz.
Discover your dominant intuitive

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superpower.
Sounds cool, Let's do it.

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Hello Katie, and welcome to Real
Men Feel.

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Thanks so much for having me
here.

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So your book, Fuck Toxic
Spirituality, Avoiding red flags

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and navigating the spiritual
path of integrity as it's

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intended got my attention.
OK.

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So one of the first questions we
have about that is did you have

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a very spiritual upbringing is.
The spiritual journey.

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Part of you?
No, no, not.

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Really at all, like I think
little, little bit of religion

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here and there, but nothing,
nothing strong, not strong

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background my my spiritual
awakening.

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I kind of stumbled into it
completely unknowingly,

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unintentionally.
I mean, in hindsight now I know

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I was engaging in practices that
do actually open that up more

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for a lot of people like
meditation, energy works, other

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pieces like exploring.
But I didn't, I already went

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kind of science scientific path.
I have a masters of science in

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in psychology.
It was all like research based,

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numbers based.
I did a bit of dipping toes into

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kind of spirituality work, but I
thought it would more around the

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power of like people's belief
system almost more of like well,

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if you believe this, there is
very strong evidence like

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placebo effect of like a sugar
pillar Shan surgery.

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I kind of thought that was the
extent of it.

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And then when I started going my
own awakening started happening

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and I started experiencing non
ordinary states of

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consciousness, intuitive
information.

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It really shook like my sense of
reality of and I found a lot of

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the like quantum physics type
research was actually help more

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helpful and being how do you
kind of ground what this might

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be?
So how would you define a

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spiritual awakening?
Yeah, I think it can look so

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differently for so many
different people.

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There's no kind of 1 clear cut
like this is the way it always

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shows up.
But often times it is more of an

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experience of kind of an
expanded state of consciousness

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where whether it's you call it
like a God, a higher source,

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nature flow, higher self, like
whatever language people use.

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It's more of the experience of
like a connection to something

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bigger than yourself and a
knowing you're connected to

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that.
It could be kind of like

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receiving communication from
something bigger, reassurance,

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science, synchronicities.
There's many different ways it

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can come through, but I think
the key difference is more like

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it's very experiential and it
changes how people are in the

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world.
It's not an exercise of like,

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well, here's the rationale or
the reasons for believing this

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could be happening.
It's because I get it too.

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If for people who aren't
spiritual initially or don't

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believe, like aren't really
connected in that way, I get the

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skepticism because I was there
before and if someone just told

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me like the reasons to believe
in it, it wouldn't have really

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changed my mind.
But it's like the experiences

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that I've had, I'm like there is
something more.

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Yeah, Yeah, Everyone said that
all the time.

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And yeah, for me, even as a
child that's like eight or nine

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years old, I called myself an
atheist.

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So I wasn't raised with
anything.

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And I thought, you know, science
was the only thing.

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And and if anyone mentioned
religion, I thought, well, God

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is an old man on the throne in
the sky.

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That's ridiculous.
So it never appealed to me and

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until I had lived experiences
that made me go, whoa, something

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else is going on besides just
this, this flesh and bone suit

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I'm wearing.
Yes, so in, in, in writing the

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book.
Fuck toxic spirituality.

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That implies to me that you, you
had a let's see, an up and down

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journey in your spiritual.
Awakening on like up and down

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journey and then I also I've
come to try to specialize as

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intuitive, like spiritual
awakenings is part of my

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practice within psychology.
So I've I've explored more than

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non traditional as well as like
what are ways to bring this in

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on on the mental health side of
things.

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So I think there's value in
both, but I found there's there

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were things I went gotta just
kind of trouble or uncertainty

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within my own journey with that.
And there's just so many themes

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that I kept seeing over and over
again.

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Like I've worked with hundreds
of thousands of different people

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at this point and there's so
many conversations.

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I was having one-on-one with
people that I'm like, there

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needs to be more information to
help people navigate this.

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Like it's not AI have all the
answers in any way at all, but I

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just found that, you know, when
you're going through like having

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kind of psychic intuitive
experiences, non ordinary stage

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of consciousness, there's not a
lot of places where like our DSM

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diagnostics, statistical manual,
mental health disorders can put

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that.
I think it's starting to change

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in terms of more Western
approaches.

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There is more and more people
being open, having their own

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experiences, but it's not like
something that's traditionally

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taught in grad schools.
And there's many psychologists,

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psychiatrists, medical providers
where you might want to be a

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little bit careful what you're
like, how much you share.

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And again, there's some people
who will get that and can

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understand and help tease out
like what if this may be mental

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health and what if it actually
is like healthy, helpful, like

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psychic ability actually
happening?

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Not necessarily any symptom of
any mental health concern.

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But I get why people are kind of
concerned about who to talk to

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you about that.
And many, there's a lot, there

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is research that say many like
academics, professionals, like

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often there are a large
percentage of people in the

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general population who've had
significant spiritual

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experiences that change the
course of their life, their

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work, their research.
But it is one of the things that

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is so not talked about publicly
because people are very afraid

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of being like stigmatized, like
people not taking them

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seriously, losing credibility.
I was in the spiritual closet

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for a long time.
And I just think when people are

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going through stuff and looking
for guidance, it's one of those

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things.
If you Google stuff, you get

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such a Wild West of answers
online.

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And they're I in the book, I
talk about different spectrums.

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Like the title is kind of
controversial.

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The book isn't really that tone.
It's really more it's, it's more

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kind of grounded to say like
here's pieces around like our

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nervous system, we're still in a
human body, even as a spiritual

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being, there's still elements
we, we that doesn't bypass the

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physical and like the nervous
system, it can be helpful, but

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it doesn't just erase that right
away and and from kind of well

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meaning spiritual stuff.
It's a lot of it I think is

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unintentional, but we're not
really thinking it through on a

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like deep enough human enough
level of, you know, even mindset

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work manifesting of like, oh,
just think positively.

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Like it can be really harmful
for people or even gaslighting

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and not hold the whole human
experience.

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There's a lot of manifesting
kind of teachings that like, if

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you really look at it closely,
it's so infused with this like

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capitalistic consumeristic, like
culture piece that has been like

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kind of taken from these
traditional cultures where it

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comes from where it's like this
isn't just about having more

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money.
And like it's not about giving

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our ego tools to like force life
to be the way we we think we

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wanted to, which is often very
consumer based in terms of what

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these workshops, of course, that
they're trying to like manifest

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for people like soul level stuff
is like, you know, sometimes

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that can be part of it.
I'm not discounting that the

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material is important, but it's
like soul evolution is like, it

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often guides us to things that
our ego doesn't even want to do.

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Like it's like really I have to
do like I'm going to let

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everything go scary.
There's no guarantee of any

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financial like potential
financial reward.

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It's not all about money.
It's more about like connection,

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like service, our own journey.
And then with that like whole

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spectrum too.
It's like, I think there's a lot

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of well, many people in
spiritual spaces, but it's like

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we're still people.
So it's like, how do people know

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who can be helpful?
Have people done enough of their

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own shadow work?
Like there can be harmful even

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like difficult personality
dynamics or even suspected, like

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there might be people who are
harmful in those spiritual

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spaces who are.
And I've seen that in my office

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too many times to like the
aftermath of that.

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People being open, trusting
people like, well, they have all

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the psychic ability, they're
saying all the right things, but

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they're like, actually there's
some very harmful exploitive

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dynamics happening that can
really traumatize people.

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Opening up to the wrong person
can shut down your awakening.

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Well, not just shut down, like
people can get financially

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abused, like there can be sexual
abuse that happens,

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exploitation, like people can
unintentionally or

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intentionally.
There's like a can be a power

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dynamic or a vulnerability if
you're going to someone as a

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teacher or a space holder and
they're not kind of clean in

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their ability to hold that
space.

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Yeah.
This reminds me of I think this

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line comes from Doctor Stanislav
Grof.

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He created holotropic breath
work, done a lot of study of

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consciousness and psychedelic
research and things.

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And he said the difference
between a Yogi and a lunatic is

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all who you tell.
And about 14 years ago, I had

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someone referred to me from
their psychiatrist because they

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thought they were losing their
mind, and they referred them to

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me.
And that's all I knew.

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Like, what?
So yeah, she was having a

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spiritual awakening.
She was starting to receive

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messages and having hits of
intuition and psychic

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experiences and mediumship
experiences.

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And I was just calmed her down.
It's like, no, like there a lot

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of the world is chasing this.
People are spending a lot of

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money to try to have the
experience that you're just

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naturally having.
So, you know, breathe into it,

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relax.
There's nothing out to damage

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you.
You're not in some sort of a

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karmic trouble.
These aren't evil spirits.

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Just just listen just and she
did, she finally just stopped

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resisting and went on to have a,
you know, a wonderful life and

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and opening her own
consciousness to it.

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So it's that's why it's so great
that you are in both worlds.

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And have have you always been
operating in both or did did it

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take?
A while no, it was apology

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first.
Like it was the just the

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straight up like traditional
kind of psychology 1st.

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But I, I, I was having my own
kind of disillusionment with

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just conscious mind approaches
alone.

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Like I felt like there's gotta
be more than just that.

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And I even found from my own
kind of healing journey, like

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understanding different layers
of like, yeah, this probably

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comes from childhood.
Like maybe I shouldn't react

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this way.
I should probably do this

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instead.
If I tell myself this, I might

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believe something else.
It's just like I found that that

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didn't really shift a lot of the
patterns for me.

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I could just analyze them and
understand them better and like

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know what I should do better.
But it didn't change like the

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automatic reaction.
So that was where I kind of

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started exploring other other
modalities, got more into

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meditation.
I also did more like trauma work

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deeper, like inner ways to work
with like these, the the nervous

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system as a whole to move energy
through like not so much just

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about the story, but how do you
actually like shift these

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patterns?
And yeah.

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And so then the spiritual I, I
and I didn't combine both for a

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while because it was a long
path.

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It was a quite a long path for
me to figure out how to do both.

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And I, I wouldn't recommend
people, if they're even as a

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practitioner, when you're first
going through that awakening,

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you need to figure that out and
get more grounded in that first.

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So you know more of like, what
is intuition?

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What's your ego like?
What is, how do you bring this

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in?
And I also needed, I did a lot

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more training, like it was years
and years more of training to be

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like, what are the modalities I
can use within psychology that

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are accepted that are evidence
based?

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So I can bring this within
because regulated professions

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often have guidelines around
like what you can do and what

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you can't do, you can't.
Just like if you just brought in

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like shamanism, like that isn't
really necessarily like accepted

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in all colleges.
So you could open yourself up to

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trouble.
You refer yourself as a as a

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highly sensitive person and an
empath could.

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Could you define those terms?
Yeah, highly sensitive is really

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well defined.
So if you believe in just Google

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highly sensitive person, Doctor
Elaine Aaron, there is a self

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test online.
It's it's been research

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validated.
She's done many different

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versions of it.
A lot of research has gone into

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it.
It's not a diagnosis, but it's

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really, it seems to be about 15
to 20% of the population has a

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nervous system that's kind of
like hold back, like take things

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in before jumping in.
So it seems to be a nervous

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system difference of like
processing sensory information

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more deeply.
And so that can also make the

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nervous system more prone to
overwhelm as well.

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And so there's a number of
traits that kind of come with

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that.
It's not like good or bad, it's

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just it's kind of like there's
benefits to it and there's

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downsides to it as well.
And understanding and working

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with our nervous system can
really help it.

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I often compare it to almost
like maybe like a spider plant

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in an orchid.
It's like they're both great

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plants, but some need different
conditions and can like do some

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really cool things.
They look really cool.

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Like they have different traits,
positives and drawbacks, but

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like, like there's more care and
fine tuning with the orchid

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where the spider plant is like
more hearty, which is great, but

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pros and cons.
And then the impacted piece is

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for that spiritual awakening
piece for people who really want

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to actually, they want to open
that up.

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And the side note I will say
with that too, is I do also have

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like a bit of a screening piece
for people.

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It's not a substitute for your
own advice, but one of the hard

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parts of spiritual awakening
piece is like some spiritual

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communities are like, oh, any of
these symptoms means it's just a

285
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spiritual awakening.
Like don't worry about it.

286
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,040
Just go into it where sometimes
they're there's some mental

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00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,800
health conditions that can
overlap where it's like this may

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00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,800
not actually be safe or a good
idea to keep opening it at all.

289
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,240
Like this is going to
destabilize your life even more

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00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,320
and can put someone in a
dangerous position.

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00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,000
So for me, I'm more of a, that's
not my area of expertise.

292
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,040
Like I would want someone else
connected with other things.

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00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,160
I'll work with people when
they're like stabilized and I

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00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,360
can help them kind of sort out
like, are these things going on?

295
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,720
Is it safe for us to work
together?

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00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,000
If not you, I want you to get
like have some other support

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00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,360
here kind of first, because it's
not always a good idea to just

298
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,600
open up.
But if it if it is safe, it's

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00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,640
stable, if people are kind of
able to function in their roles,

300
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,880
their routines, then I think
when, if you're wanting to

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00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,000
consciously open up, it's it is
like a muscle or a skill where

302
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,280
the more you pay attention to
like the way intuitive

303
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,840
information comes to you, the
more it'll open up in different

304
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,800
ways and evolve.
And my dominant sense initially

305
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,000
was more empathic, which is more
like a feeling, feeling

306
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,120
emotional energy or like
physical sensations in my own

307
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,600
body.
So yeah.

308
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,040
Yeah, So when when I was a kid,
the first empathic experience I

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00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,680
can recall, I still recall it
very clearly.

310
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,360
It was like the first day of
school 3rd grade going to the

311
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,160
same school I've been going to
for the last two years.

312
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,520
And as we arrive, we just being
in the 3rd grade May just we got

313
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,560
dropped in a different section
of the school now and I started

314
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,840
bawling on the bus.
I'm like, what's?

315
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,480
And then my mom, like I'm
sitting with my next friend.

316
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:58,800
I'm going to school.
I like school.

317
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,200
Why the hell am I crying?
And it was like all the energy

318
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,200
of the bus.
Everyone else's anxiety came out

319
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,000
through me, but I just thought I
was losing my freaking mind and

320
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,680
I didn't tell anyone.
And I was just like, I was

321
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,880
crying like off and on that day
I was like, so looking forward

322
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,480
to get home.
And then the, the bus home

323
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,920
dropped me off like a block from
my house and I didn't recognize

324
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,000
and I'm like, where am I?
I'm, you know, like I'm just

325
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,320
freaking out.
And that's those sort of

326
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,600
experiences kept happening.
And I'd never heard a term of

327
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,160
empath until it was like in my
early 20s probably.

328
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,240
But you know, I've, I'm a
survivor of multiple suicide

329
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,240
attempts.
I just thought, I thought it was

330
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,560
broken, thought it was flawed.
I thought, you know, I'm picking

331
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,040
up like no one else does this.
Why?

332
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,520
I'm like, like I thought like I
didn't have depression.

333
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,760
I thought I was depression.
Yeah.

334
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,760
Yeah.
So I'm so glad that not just

335
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,000
being, yeah, not not empathy,
but being empathic is more

336
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,680
talked about now.
And and is that kind of like I,

337
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,280
yeah, I felt like a conduit for
other people's emotions.

338
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,040
Yeah, I almost referred to it as
like it's like a energetic

339
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,920
sponge versus like a Teflon pan.
Like some people.

340
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,080
It's like you can when you're
not, we don't have that level of

341
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,040
sensitivity that you're like
processing it through your own

342
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,000
body.
And again, I think it like now,

343
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,359
I think it's for a long time now
that I've worked with it and

344
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,280
know how to work with it.
It's such a gift.

345
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,520
I wouldn't change it, but
initially I'm like, this one

346
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,560
sucks like this humility in our
culture and time period is not

347
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,839
it's not the one I choose.
If you had a choice, good news

348
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:23,240
is we can work with it and it
definitely can get better.

349
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,400
It also we can, I found ways for
myself.

350
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,480
It's not dominant for me
anymore, but I've done a lot of

351
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,080
work with it and what like with
belief systems and early

352
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,160
childhood stuffs because I was
like, I don't want the intuitive

353
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,120
information to come through in
this, this level of intensity

354
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,160
because it's, it was very
similar for me and it's and I

355
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,440
didn't know it was happening
until I was already in

356
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,120
psychology.
I was in my mid 20s.

357
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,320
I did some intuitive exercise
and it was just mind blowing.

358
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,680
Like I still remember it very
clearly too, that I was like,

359
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,920
oh, like what with this
exercise, when I'm paired with

360
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,080
different people, I don't know
and I'm explaining what I'm

361
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,360
feeling and what's shifting
inside of me, I'm like, it's

362
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:02,720
exactly what's happening for
them and I don't know them.

363
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,640
So I was like, how long and how
much has this actually been

364
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,640
going on?
So many people who are empathic

365
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,720
do not realize, You may not even
realize that they are because.

366
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,480
And I think that's one of the
limitations with like Western

367
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,920
psychology kind of treats people
like they're individual and that

368
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,880
we're not connected, that we're
not part of this bigger field.

369
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,640
Whether it's like any approach
that's too much just on our

370
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,280
conscious mind and rational
thoughts.

371
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,000
Like isn't taking into account
almost like the nesting doll

372
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,320
approach of like we have our own
inner child, our family system

373
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,240
and stuff, our ancestors or
maybe in Diesel history, we have

374
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,680
like collective field stuff.
And different people take on

375
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,880
different levels of that.
But it's like you need different

376
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,200
tools and not just conscious
mind approaches when you're

377
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,240
actually absorbing other
people's energy.

378
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,560
Yeah, something you mentioned
earlier about being spiritual

379
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,880
and physical still, because
that's and it, and I went

380
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,200
through this myself, but a, a, a
common misstep when someone's

381
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,000
really having their first
spiritual awakening is that I'm

382
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,480
just going to be spiritual and
the body doesn't matter.

383
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:03,800
They're like, no, we're, we're
what?

384
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:07,480
Regardless of your belief, we
are all spiritual beings having

385
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,920
a physical experience.
And but I, when I discovered

386
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,480
meditation, I was like, Oh my
God, I feel so good doing this.

387
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,840
I would try to meditate for six
hours a day.

388
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,320
Like I didn't want to live my
life.

389
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,280
I just wanted to be in this
meditative state that felt good.

390
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,840
And it, it doesn't work.
That made my life worse, not.

391
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,080
Better Well, they work for some
people, but it's like not

392
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,120
everyone has the like privilege
or access to be like it's like

393
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,760
it.
Do you have the funds, the

394
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,720
ability, the like support?
Yeah, the the demands of

395
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,080
meditation can be a pause from
the demands of life, but they're

396
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,640
still there when you stop
meditating.

397
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,160
Yeah.
What are some other common red

398
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,240
flags that you see in spiritual
teachers or healers or even

399
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,600
wider communities?
Yeah, I think there's like the,

400
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,400
the wider community level, I I
think there's some stuff of like

401
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,120
and it, this is kind of, it's
not just spiritual communities.

402
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,200
There's other people who talk
about this around many like

403
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,200
Western views or North American
and other places can kind of go.

404
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,880
And I'm not, I'm not dismissing
mindset work at all.

405
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,360
Like I do think I'd, I'd have
him trained in positive

406
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,360
psychology.
There's a time and place for

407
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:17,080
like mindset work and being like
our thoughts are powerful, like

408
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,680
what we envision, what we focus
on and is important too.

409
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,280
But culturally we've almost
swung too far in some areas

410
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,600
where it's almost like toxic
positivity or it's like any

411
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,960
specific gets into this
manifestation of like, oh, like

412
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,080
don't say anything bad or don't
express this.

413
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,240
Don't live in that reality or
you're going to bring more of

414
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,320
this to you.
And and it can almost be this

415
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,840
piece of like we're not allowed
to have any human emotions of

416
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,400
like anger, despair, rage, Like
it's like we always got to go to

417
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,400
like the spiritual peace right
away or this like other part.

418
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,560
And I don't think that really
serves us as a as as communities

419
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,960
and our relationships.
There is I'm more a believer of

420
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,880
like there's a time and place
for both and there's sometimes

421
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,800
like our emotions are an
evolutionary, like they're part

422
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,160
of our species heritage.
They're still here, like we all

423
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,320
experience them.
And if there is a stage of

424
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,680
enlightenment where you like
just naturally don't feel that

425
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,840
anymore, I'm not there.
But I don't believe we get there

426
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,200
by like shoving stuff down and
bypassing.

427
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,040
So it I still think we have to
be.

428
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,720
It's more when we can actually
have safe spaces to feel those

429
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,640
emotions, to move through them.
It's like that we canmore

430
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,320
naturally come to the spiritual
ability and again, there's

431
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,480
almost these like different
layers of reality of like we are

432
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,880
like we have our human body, our
nervous system, our brain, our

433
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,840
emotions.
We have our spiritual self we

434
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:43,320
can connect to too, but it
doesn't mean like it's, we still

435
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,160
have to like work with that and
feel, feel some of those things

436
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,960
and, and almost like both can be
true.

437
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,600
Like our mind almost wants like,
oh, well, if it happens for a

438
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,080
reason or your soul signed up
for this, like I shouldn't feel

439
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,760
these things.
And it's like, Nah, you can feel

440
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,800
all this.
It'd be super pissed off too and

441
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,960
angry, upset, like have these
emotions to work through.

442
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,200
And also some people still don't
get those messages have that

443
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,840
knowing, have that belief for
themselves.

444
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,480
But like there's a spiritual
message here.

445
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,200
There's like a soul journey and
the human self can be like, oh

446
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:11,880
man, like, why did I sign up for
this?

447
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,720
Like this still really sucks.
Like there's still stuff that's

448
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,360
not OK.
So I think it's, and again, that

449
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:20,800
bypassing piece because some of
that can be like, OK, let's not

450
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,960
look at anything hard and let's
not look at anything

451
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,400
collectively that's hard.
That may be part of our call as

452
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,200
a species to be evolving,
growing, awakening, like

453
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,840
developing these deeper skills
together or not being like, oh,

454
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,240
well, just they create the
reality.

455
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,000
So we're not going to look at
any of these systems of

456
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,880
oppression, privilege, like
historical influences at all.

457
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,440
Like they created the reality.
And it's like, no, I think

458
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,160
sometimes our evolution and I've
had my own, my own work or even

459
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,440
client work sometimes where
messages come through around,

460
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,960
like sometimes part of the soul
lesson is part of a collective

461
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,600
piece of like everybody's
learning something so we can all

462
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,560
do better and like all evolve as
well.

463
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,640
And so I think that's some of
the like, those are a few of the

464
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,800
community things.
And in terms of like individual

465
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,120
people, a lot of it is like, you
know, are they aware?

466
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,800
Do they have enough awareness of
their own shadow work pieces?

467
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,920
Like sometimes there can be
spiritual elements.

468
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,960
I know not every this can be
controversial for some people

469
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,160
there too because I don't think
Western psychology on its own is

470
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,560
the only answer.
Like I get there's systemic

471
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,080
issues, there's privilege
issues.

472
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,120
Like there's room for community
support, other people doing like

473
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,880
holding space.
But sometimes what people, it

474
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,760
does concern me as someone who's
like highly trained and like

475
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,560
treating depression, trauma,
other areas of like if someone

476
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,520
who's just had some life
experience, some coaching pieces

477
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,600
starts to pivot into saying
they're treating that or being

478
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,720
like, oh, it's trauma informed.
They're like, we're going to do

479
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,560
this transformation with peace.
And it's like, OK, are you aware

480
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,240
enough of like who this is for,
who it can help, who it may not

481
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,960
help or be destabilizing?
Is there some kind of screening

482
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,880
process in place?
Like does someone know like like

483
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,720
the limits of their zone of
competency or not?

484
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,080
And some of some spiritual
spaces.

485
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,360
I get worried because it doesn't
there doesn't seem to be a lot

486
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:14,680
of that there or any of like any
of them.

487
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,760
Have you had personal experience
with a red flag or a dangerous

488
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,760
healer or teacher in your
journey?

489
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,560
Yeah, I've had, I had someone I
worked with and I I won't say

490
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,360
any names at all.
Like I'm not associated with

491
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:32,600
them in any way.
But early on I just a mentorship

492
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,360
stuff with someone and it was
just like there was a lot of

493
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:38,360
like emotionally mature
personality dynamic stuff and

494
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,640
even like just no accountability
like would change stuff.

495
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,960
People would bring up concerns
with Gaslight would like, would

496
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,760
like, oh, well, everybody else.
It was like they were not

497
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,720
honoring like the contract they
laid out in terms of like taking

498
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,280
payment and what they were
supposed to offer.

499
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,520
And then it was like, oh, well,
you're not spiritual if you're

500
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,960
like upset about this or this.
And it's like, you just

501
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,240
basically stole money from
everybody and are not delivering

502
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,480
and like, and then not wanting
anyone to talk about it.

503
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,720
And, and I was like, I would not
refer people to you.

504
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,800
I don't want to be associated
with you.

505
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,160
And they're pretty, they're
pretty well known.

506
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,920
Like they have an international
following and pieces.

507
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,480
And then I I also see it with
clients coming in too, where

508
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:20,160
I've seen people be like abused
by people they've trusted or

509
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,640
like financially extorted or
other like just get because they

510
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,240
going in a vulnerable position.
I mean, I mean, it was a mistake

511
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,720
I made, but I think it happens
too because sometimes you see

512
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,080
people with these like they,
there can be people with really

513
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,920
high spiritual abilities, like
they might be able to channel.

514
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,440
And I kind of like initially I
naively was like, oh, like that

515
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,800
means you're more evolved.
You're more like more.

516
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,520
No, not necessarily.
So it's, I think there it's

517
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,440
important to know not just in
spiritual circles, but anywhere

518
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,760
in the, in the world.
It's like knowing like emotional

519
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,600
maturity and like what are
concerning personality dynamics

520
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,480
that are going on.
Anytime we're entering an

521
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,560
important relationship with
someone, we want to be able to,

522
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,520
if we can better screen for
those, we can better protect

523
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,080
ourselves.
Like whether it's a business

524
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,840
partner, a romantic partner, a
boss, like people who don't have

525
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,080
a lot of maturity or
accountability or even

526
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,200
personality disorder type
dynamics.

527
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,760
It's like they can cause so much
harm and chaos around them that

528
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,640
it's it's a different, it's a
small percentage of the

529
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,440
population, but they can do a
lot of damage.

530
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:31,080
Yeah, yeah, IA common mistake in
my journey was seeing that any

531
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,560
teacher or mentor, I thought
like, I'm so flawed and broken.

532
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,480
They are perfect.
And then when they had their own

533
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,200
life challenges like a divorce
or a downturn in business of

534
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,920
like it knocked, it'd shake the
pedestal that had them on and it

535
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,920
would just really confuse me.
But I'm like, but you're so

536
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,200
enlightened, you know, you're
you're supposed to be perfect.

537
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,240
And again, they never said this.
It was just my projection on

538
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,560
them that they should have.
And yeah, that brought a lot of

539
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,840
a lot of pain and discomfort and
like, boy, I think everyone I've

540
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:04,080
ever followed, I've had times
been knocked off the path and

541
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,720
get back on and oh, here's the
good.

542
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,440
Oh, I don't have to like, yeah,
it's not I want to follow you as

543
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,160
a the be all and end all, but I
can still take you had a lot of

544
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,320
valuable gifts and lessons that
that served me.

545
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,760
And it like for sure
differentiating that was the big

546
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,360
deal for me.
Yeah, it's still humans, right?

547
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:23,040
And it's like there's nobody's
going to be perfect or fully

548
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,840
healed, but it's like, are they
aware enough?

549
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,280
Do they have the supports in
place?

550
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,360
Like are they looking at their
own shadow stuff?

551
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:31,480
Like do they know where they can
hold space cleanly or not?

552
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:34,800
And it's like, I, the other side
for me too, is like when someone

553
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,440
gets into a place of like,
they're your answer for you or

554
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,520
like the piece of like they
start using fear or manipulation

555
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,720
and like using psychic abilities
to be like, Oh, if you don't do

556
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,000
this, it's like, there's a
difference between like, I would

557
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,640
really recommend this.
I think it's in your best

558
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,720
interest, but you don't have to
work with me.

559
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,720
But my recommendation is seek
support somewhere versus like,

560
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,680
if you don't pay me, like
terrible things are going to

561
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,160
happen or like I overriding
other people's intuition for

562
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,000
them because I think we all have
the ability to connect with

563
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,400
that.
And I, I, I'm more a fan of

564
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,680
teachers, healers, guides who
they may be, they may help you

565
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,040
connect with that within
yourself and they may have

566
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,960
guidance and wisdom.
You can run through something

567
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,880
for you, but they're not seeking
to like be that for you or

568
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,840
getting overinvested and getting
upset if you don't choose what

569
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,520
they want you to do.
Right.

570
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,800
Yeah, one, one of the things I
do is a Akashic record readings.

571
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,880
Oh yeah.
I've had people come to me so

572
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,320
often and I like no stop, like
live your life, make your

573
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,400
choices.
Don't just come and ask and

574
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,320
check in on time or learn to
open your records and get your

575
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,400
own guidance.
Like I, I've had to cut people

576
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,360
off from that because, you know,
I was concerned that they were,

577
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,800
it was putting, you know, a
crutch as opposed to a tool of

578
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,880
support.
Yeah.

579
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,760
Like a dependency or going
outside one else versus like

580
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,840
developing some of this?
Yeah, yeah.

581
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,440
But again, that doing that has
been an amazing thing for for

582
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,000
myself, the information that I
get for myself, for for clients.

583
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,520
Been doing that for 14 years, I
think.

584
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,840
But anyway.
But yeah, that's one of the most

585
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,600
powerful tools that again, when
I first heard of it, Oh, that's

586
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,320
nonsense.
Like almost everything I do on a

587
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,280
daily basis is something I used
to make fun of.

588
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680
I just want to get that like let
that, let that be OK and.

589
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,240
Oh yeah, if I someone told me
what I'd be doing, I'd I would

590
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,560
have laughed.
There's no way I would have

591
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,040
believed them at all.
Like.

592
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,000
And I've taken missteps too.
I spent a year as a card

593
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,120
carrying Scientologist.
You truly get a little ID card

594
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,880
and a number that says you're a
Scientologist.

595
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,920
And they were one of the my
early experiences of a red flag

596
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,880
that I now recognize.
But they're like we're the only

597
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,880
way.
So anytime someone, some class,

598
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,000
some program teacher is like,
I'm the only way to what you

599
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,000
want.
Like that's the, that's the big

600
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,280
warning to me now.
Yeah, I I agree.

601
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,000
It's like there's many different
paths.

602
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,640
There's no one path for
everyone.

603
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,280
It's like this is a path if it
resonates for you.

604
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,600
And sometimes it's reason,
season, lifetime, like you might

605
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,120
be drawn to something for a
while and it might feel like

606
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,200
this is because I think again,
that's our intuitive like that

607
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,720
connection we have for ourself
will is like our little compass

608
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,840
that will guide us to different
things.

609
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,720
And sometimes there's something
important, like I do think the

610
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,600
work I did with that one teacher
mentor, it was like there was

611
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,160
soul history between us.
There was important stuff for me

612
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,640
to get there.
But like some of the lessons for

613
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,200
me was again, like not putting
someone on a pedestal, not being

614
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,640
like, oh, they're so gifted.
They're so well known that they

615
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,400
know better than I do.
Like it really, it was a dark

616
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,760
teacher, but that's like it
changed.

617
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,600
It was an important.
I'm like, I do feel like it was

618
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,800
part of a soul path.
I was like guided to work with

619
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,720
them for a reason, but not
forever.

620
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:35,960
Right.
Yeah.

621
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,360
And that, that's, that's
important too.

622
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,960
Like I, I find time and time
again in my life and with

623
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:46,400
clients, our soul's journey, our
soul connection, all of that can

624
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,040
be temporary and and that
there's always more like I've,

625
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,440
I've our souls love newness.
Our souls are made to expand,

626
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,800
and they expand by us having
more lived experiences, as we

627
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,480
talked about earlier.
Yeah, yeah, it's always

628
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,600
evolving.
Yeah, I used to think that made

629
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,160
life suck, but I've come to
realize, yes, I used to hate

630
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,000
change, dread change.
You know, now I can, I might not

631
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,360
celebrate every change in the
moment, but I can embrace it and

632
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,520
and have the faith that, you
know, this is going to serve me

633
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,520
in the end if I embrace it, if I
dive into it, if I go with it.

634
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,720
But I think it's it's Katie
Byron says.

635
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,120
Yeah, every time I resist life,
I lose.

636
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,800
What I think it's like at
sometimes it is that dark night

637
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,400
of the soul piece where it's
like, I, I agree to you, where

638
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,800
before I kind of developed the
trust in my intuition and

639
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,880
connected with that part.
It was like, and again, our

640
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,520
society kind of teaches us that
from such a young age.

641
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,720
We asked like kindergarten kids,
like, what do you want to be

642
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,040
when you grow up?
And then when you're like

643
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,560
getting close to graduation,
we're like, what are you going

644
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,400
to do with the rest of your
life?

645
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,760
And it's like, oh God, that's a
lot.

646
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,120
That's a lot of pressure.
So we're kind of taught to

647
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,640
reverse engineer, like figure
out what you want and then

648
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,560
reverse engineer it, take the
steps and make it happen where

649
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,920
and that's, that can be an
anxious place to because you're

650
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,120
trying to control like there's
some things that there's value

651
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,800
in that, but there's this whole
mystery of life that there's

652
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,640
stuff that we so can't control.
And I found I'm more open to

653
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,840
change now because I can trust
more in that process.

654
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,840
And I'm like, Hey, there's
something here for me.

655
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,640
And I, it's like when the times
where I haven't listed or hold

656
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,160
on tight or resisted, it's like
this.

657
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,440
It's like you want to do this
the easier way or the harder

658
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,320
way.
Like there's going to be some

659
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,720
processing either way, but if
you hold on tight, it's not

660
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,560
going to be, I've learned.
Like that's not the way I want

661
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,360
to do it.
Yeah, you've mentioned intuition

662
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,480
a lot, so I want to back up a
bit and give you the chance to

663
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,320
kind of, again, give a
definition and help people, you

664
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,400
know, if someone is concerned,
like in my experience, my

665
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,520
intuition.
Or do I need to go on psych

666
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:42,680
meds?
You know, like what?

667
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,040
So what?
What's intuition?

668
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,000
Yeah, I would say intuition is,
I mean, it can come in so many

669
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:52,080
different ways, but it's almost
that like prayer is our we're

670
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,600
putting out something to the
universe, God, higher self,

671
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,120
source again, whatever you want
to call it.

672
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,520
I'm more spiritual than
religious.

673
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,520
I work with people from all
different faith backgrounds.

674
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,920
But I think the intuition piece
is like that higher source

675
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,560
answering.
It's like it could be signs or

676
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,840
synchronicities.
It might be something that keeps

677
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,800
repeating and getting your
attention.

678
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,120
It could be just this.
It could be a knowing, it could

679
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,720
be like a dream.
It could be a gut feeling like

680
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,320
it's this, it's the subtle ways.
And there there's a really

681
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,600
interesting book called the
Awakened Brain where forget if

682
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,280
she's a neuroscientist or a
psychiatrist, but she stumbled

683
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,120
on research of spirituality and
like resilient brains.

684
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,120
And she does such a good job of
talking about the neuroscience

685
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,480
of like our brain seems to be
designed to, to communicate with

686
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,040
this like larger web of
consciousness.

687
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,760
And like when we have that
connection, we, our brains are

688
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,320
more resilient.
They're more protected from

689
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,720
depression and anxiety.
Like we are more connected to

690
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,360
meaning and purpose.
Like our brains are happier and

691
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,560
healthier than when we're just
in the achievement oriented

692
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,600
brain.
And and so I think that's really

693
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,000
like, it's a fascinating way
that the science supports some

694
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,080
of the spiritual experience.
But I think that intuition it

695
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,159
like it is our personal compass
or our line to like our soul or

696
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:12,000
that bigger part of us like that
higher the the wider universe or

697
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:13,480
again, whatever you want to call
it.

698
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,360
In your experience and in in
your clients experiences, is

699
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,560
there you know, one particular
practice or program or technique

700
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,480
that that you wish more people
knew about?

701
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,760
I think it's more couple things
like it's one of it is slowing

702
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,719
down and getting out of our
rational minds.

703
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,239
If we're always busy, busy, busy
going, it's hard for any of that

704
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,239
to kind of come in or land.
So it might be, is it

705
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,080
meditation?
Could be a really strong one,

706
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,960
like taking time to meditate to
like walk in nature, have a long

707
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,480
bath.
Like have places where you can

708
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,800
just be in the moment.
For some people, it might be

709
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,560
cleaning or focus on something
that's more vigorous to get

710
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,239
their mind to shut off for a
minute that you're so focused in

711
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,760
the present.
It's like we're more likely to

712
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,400
get that kind of information
there.

713
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,680
And then I also like created a
free quiz on my website too.

714
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,600
It's not scientifically
validated.

715
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,320
It's more for people on like
fun, but it's when you, when you

716
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,240
start noticing like how does
intuition come for me?

717
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,240
Then you can intentionally kind
of meditate on that sense and

718
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:15,680
that'll help the other ones open
up.

719
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,080
I.
Was going to ask what's the best

720
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,120
way for people to get in touch
with you and learn more?

721
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,040
So let's first.
First, where can people get this

722
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,200
quiz?
It's at Katy Turner,

723
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,800
psychology.com.
And is that your main website?

724
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,040
Is that that the best place to
go?

725
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,680
OK, it's the new one.
Yeah, great.

726
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:32,080
I know you especially active on
any of the socials.

727
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,320
I go on social here and there,
like I'm kind of up and down

728
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,080
with it.
So, but I am there.

729
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,560
I think my, my website's one.
I have a newsletter list.

730
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,960
So I kind of just as a thank you
to newsletter community,

731
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,800
anything first announcements
always go there.

732
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,240
So when I have new things coming
out, it's always there first and

733
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,000
then I'm on most of the socials
as well.

734
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,240
So we're we're closing in on the
end of 2024.

735
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:04,160
What are you looking forward to?
Yeah, well, I feel like even

736
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,280
just the book, the quiz, like
speaking to you now I'm I'm in

737
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,960
the middle of an unknown calling
myself over the last few years,

738
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,320
like intuition really guided me
opening up my practice that in

739
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,920
the way I do and having bringing
spirituality as such a

740
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,120
foundation within it.
And so I am looking forward to

741
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,000
see kind of what unfolds.
I don't like, I'm not here

742
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,640
pitching anything really because
it is a coke.

743
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,640
I do feel the callings I've been
getting are more of like, how do

744
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,080
I get some of this information
and help people on a who

745
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,680
resonate who want some of these
resources on a bigger scale

746
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,200
that's kind of beyond one to one
therapy.

747
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,440
So I'm looking forward to seeing
what evolves and what people

748
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,720
kind of want to see and how how
I can be of service in that way.

749
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:48,200
Cool.
Yeah.

750
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,320
And one thing like a surprise,
something I wasn't taught as a

751
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,760
kid, but as I grew up and
developed myself and wanted to

752
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,600
live a more joyous life, how
important service is to that?

753
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,040
And being of service really
helps me to continue my own

754
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,520
healing.
Is that something that you see?

755
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,560
I do as well, like I think
there's sometimes in in

756
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,800
spiritual communities of like
getting rid of the the like.

757
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,640
I'm also it's like of service,
but also sustainability because

758
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,160
I think there's pieces of like
sometimes there can be pieces of

759
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,240
like if you want to be a healer
or helper, like you should be

760
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,920
doing this completely for free.
And it's just like that's just

761
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,680
not sustainable to re exist in
the 3D World.

762
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,000
Like I'm also a single parent
like I have to there's a bottom

763
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,160
line I need to kind of make.
So I think there's, there's that

764
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,480
there's like self-care and
service.

765
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,160
But again, like I've had many
different kind of like past

766
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,120
lifetime saying, saying stuff.
So I'm also not as attached to

767
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,720
the material world.
I never really, it's never been

768
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:48,320
my dominant piece.
So I think there's a piece of

769
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,400
like soul level.
It's like I want to help, like

770
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,200
help more people in a way that's
sustainable but has a bigger

771
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,080
impact as well.
And is your book available

772
00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:59,640
everywhere people might find
books?

773
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,880
Yeah, it's like on the website
there's a page with it too, I

774
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,440
think.
I don't know if it's everywhere.

775
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,480
I know it's on.
I think you get on Amazon, Kobo,

776
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,280
there's a few different places
you can grab it.

777
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,360
I have a free like a workshop
right now that'll go out for

778
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,640
free with that for not sure how
long, but probably for the next

779
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,960
three months or more, yeah.
Well, Katie, I really appreciate

780
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,920
you joining us today.
You know, as someone that was

781
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,000
diagnosed with a different label
every time I saw a psychiatrist

782
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,800
as a, as a teenager, I'm so glad
that the spiritual and the

783
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,920
medical world's are, are working
more In Sync than ever before.

784
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,600
So I, I think your book is
important.

785
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,040
Your work is important and your
willingness to come out and, and

786
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,600
you know, as you said, come out
of your own spiritual closet is

787
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,640
very important and needed.
So I appreciate you and, and

788
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,640
that and for everyone listening,
wherever you're finding Real Men

789
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,120
Feel, please give a like share
this with someone that will get

790
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,720
value from it.
Comment or review subscription.

791
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,000
All those things are good for
us.

792
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,800
If you're not yet in the Real
Men Feel private Facebook group,

793
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,320
you can visit
realmenfeel.org/group.

794
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,240
You can always reach out to me
at Real Real Read.

795
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:05,160
You can always reach out to me
at realmenfeel@gmail.com.

796
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,120
And until next time, be good to
yourself.