Not Allowed to Die | Paws For Patrick

1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,900
Hello and welcome to real men.
Feel I'm your host author coach

2
00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,900
and healer and e-grant.
Real men feel is here to remind

3
00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:09,900
men that they are human beings.
Imagine that and have the right,

4
00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:13,400
the desire, the need to own an
Express all of their emotions.

5
00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:16,600
You can learn more about how I
help people do that at the Indy

6
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,700
Grant.com.
My guest today is Dan McClure,

7
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,800
Dan is the mental health
director for pause, for Patrick,

8
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,700
a non-profit organization
dedicated to connecting young

9
00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:27,700
people.
With mental health, issues to

10
00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:30,900
emotional support animals.
He is also a school Social

11
00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:33,700
worker a therapist in private
practice and the host of the

12
00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:37,700
podcast not allowed to die where
he explores the dilemmas he sees

13
00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:41,000
clients facing in his work.
It Dane was one of the people

14
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,800
that reached out to be in
multiple ways and multiple times

15
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,700
during what I now refer to as my
dark months.

16
00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:50,400
When I finally read his
messages, I was really psyched

17
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,100
to connect with him.
I've already been on his show,

18
00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:56,800
not allowed to die.
So glad to return the interview

19
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,800
favor.
So Dan, welcome to real men

20
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,200
field.
Thank you.

21
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,400
I'm I'm a big fan, so I'm very
excited to be here.

22
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,400
And yeah, this is just exciting
to connect with your audience,

23
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,800
because again, I think men
connecting with their feelings

24
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,400
whatnot is just so incredibly
important.

25
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,000
So this is a thrill for me.
Awesome cool.

26
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,700
I love love to make dreams come
true.

27
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,100
So let's start with some of the
work.

28
00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:22,500
You do, like what, what's the
range of age for the kids?

29
00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:25,300
You deal with it school while
working a high school.

30
00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:28,000
So again it's from you know, the
youngest will ever have it high

31
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,800
schools 13 to, you know?
The high school does service

32
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,800
students up to 22 years old.
But they're at a different

33
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,600
program and then in my private
practice, I have usually stay

34
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,400
with the teens to people in
their 50s or might like my

35
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,700
current clients and then with
posture Patrick were generally

36
00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:47,900
helping people who are from you
know six years old is the

37
00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:50,100
youngest in the family that
we've helped all the way up.

38
00:01:50,100 --> 00:01:52,900
We've helped people as old as 89
but we tend to focus on young

39
00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:56,700
people which we Define as 20
like 26 and under General.

40
00:01:56,700 --> 00:02:00,400
A is where our main focus is and
what got you interested?

41
00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:03,300
Did in sort of mental health,
work and being a social worker

42
00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:07,800
and a counselor.
Well, I have a lot of family

43
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,800
with mental health issues and so
all growing up, whether it was,

44
00:02:11,900 --> 00:02:13,600
you know, an aunt with
schizophrenia and Uncle with

45
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,000
bipolar or whatnot.
It was just very natural for us

46
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,900
to be discussing mental health
things.

47
00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:22,900
And I always knew I wanted to
help people but I thought I

48
00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:26,100
wanted to do it by going into
politics and I worked on a

49
00:02:26,108 --> 00:02:28,700
couple campaigns and I thought
well this is gross.

50
00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:32,200
I don't want to just worry about
who's We're and donations for

51
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,000
something.
And so I got a job.

52
00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:36,300
I thought I want to be a
lobbyist.

53
00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:39,300
So I got a job with a place
called the center for violence,

54
00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:41,900
Interruption.
And I thought I was going to go

55
00:02:41,900 --> 00:02:44,700
down to Springfield.
Illinois, and Lobby, for better

56
00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:46,200
laws for gun, violence and
whatnot.

57
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,400
But they said we need you to go
into Chicago public schools and

58
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:50,900
work with kids.
Have been kicked out to teach

59
00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:54,300
them about socialization, like
mail socialization and how they

60
00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:57,800
learn and because and how that
leads to violence and so I did

61
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,700
that and I fell in love with
direct service and I I've kind

62
00:03:00,700 --> 00:03:05,400
of really never looked back,
very cool, the politics part,

63
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,600
especially interest me.
So you quickly realized it

64
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,100
wasn't for you in your brief
period.

65
00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:14,900
There did you meet politicians
that went into this to be of

66
00:03:14,900 --> 00:03:17,300
service and quickly realized
that this isn't the way to

67
00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:19,000
serve?
Or did you meet anyone with your

68
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,400
kind of initial mindset?
I met a couple of people like

69
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,800
that and I'm not more people.
The vast majority of people I

70
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,800
was working with were people who
Started out idealistic in their

71
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,300
college days and whatnot and
then quickly realized that it

72
00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:35,600
was all about fundraising and it
was really about organizing

73
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,500
dinners and it was about
deciding like who was scratching

74
00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:41,800
who's back and so yeah.
The people, it became a lot

75
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,200
about logistics, more than it
was about issues.

76
00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,500
And I found that it was like,
well when do you get to work?

77
00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:50,900
She work on the writing of a law
or helping anybody and and that

78
00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:54,700
part is, they are too sometimes.
But the vast majority of the

79
00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:56,800
people, I went to college with
or the guys who were older than

80
00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,000
me and my fraternity who Gotten
into that life, they lost that

81
00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,800
connection pretty quickly and it
was more about can I get on this

82
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,300
next bigger campaign?
So I can be a staffer to this

83
00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:10,100
Congress person who's going
places as opposed to really

84
00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:14,200
caring about the issues.
Well, I'm glad you found your

85
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,000
best Avenue to be truly of
service.

86
00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:21,399
Much better than setting up,
dinners in logistics, I hope so.

87
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,800
And as I mentioned, your podcast
is called not allowed to die

88
00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:28,000
which is really one of my
favorite all-time podcast out.

89
00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:31,800
Yells I've ever heard.
Tell me the significance of that

90
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,300
name.
Well, as I always say on my

91
00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:36,900
podcast and to all of the
students that I work with, I

92
00:04:36,900 --> 00:04:39,100
don't care what you do to get
through the day.

93
00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,700
So unfortunately, a lot of the
students, I work with, they use

94
00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:45,600
drugs, they used alcohol there,
they engage in self-injury and

95
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,000
they can be very hard on
themselves about that and self

96
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,000
blaming and I'll say I'm glad
that you did whatever it took to

97
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,700
get you here.
Because you're here now.

98
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,600
And we want to make healthier
choices as often as we can.

99
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,900
But do It takes to get you
through, you're just not allowed

100
00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:01,700
to die.
If I'm going to work with you,

101
00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:04,700
you have to be committed to
staying alive and working on it.

102
00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:07,400
And that's, that's sometimes a
much tougher ask than we, wish

103
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:08,600
it was.
I was actually referencing.

104
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,300
You just a few minutes ago, I
had a student in my office.

105
00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:15,100
And she, she said, I wonder if
I'm just always suicidal

106
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,200
because, you know, it's just
always going to be this way and

107
00:05:19,300 --> 00:05:22,100
if it's more, if it's my
chemicals or if it's whatever

108
00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:26,200
else and you know in her family,
she's got a huge family history

109
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,900
of mental health, all over the
place.

110
00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:30,900
Ace and, you know, her parents
are going through divorce and

111
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,400
her younger brother is
transgender and there's just a

112
00:05:33,407 --> 00:05:36,900
lot of stress in the family and
things like that, but she is

113
00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:39,600
incredible.
And I said, you may go through

114
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,000
periods where it's better for
seven years and then things drop

115
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,100
down again.
But we can make it through that.

116
00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:47,900
We just have to end that.
Sometimes that suicidality is

117
00:05:47,900 --> 00:05:51,400
that it feels like an exit like
from the pain it's not about

118
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,900
wanting to be dead.
It's about wanting to know that

119
00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:55,800
they're I'm not going to always
be trapped with that.

120
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,700
Pain and referencing some of
oil.

121
00:05:57,700 --> 00:06:01,100
You and I Talked about and just
that it's not a logical but we

122
00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:04,100
can give you better options and
that's that's all we want to do

123
00:06:04,100 --> 00:06:06,200
and that's what I focus on.
A lot of my day.

124
00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:07,300
Awesome.
Awesome.

125
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:13,200
Well it's I'm mmm, you know,
it's saddens me that your day is

126
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,900
filled with needing to do that,
but I'm also glad you're there

127
00:06:15,900 --> 00:06:17,100
to do that.
Yeah.

128
00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,600
Yeah.
It's a, it's a job that we wish

129
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:20,800
we could put ourselves out of
business.

130
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,600
But if I think there's a then I
could go into just helping to

131
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,800
coach people, to get a better
job or something else like that.

132
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,200
But Have you had kids that can't
make that commitment?

133
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,100
Like I don't want to be better.
Like I can't promise you.

134
00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:38,200
I that I will live through today
when they do that.

135
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,200
And yeah that happens.
And that's one of the primary

136
00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,300
questions will ask in a suicide
risk evaluation and I say, can

137
00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:45,000
you contractor safety?
Can you promise me?

138
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,800
You're going to be alive
tomorrow and if they get be a

139
00:06:47,808 --> 00:06:50,200
maybe then that means we
probably have to go to the

140
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,500
hospital but I had another
student earlier today who again

141
00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:55,600
she was having suicidal
thoughts.

142
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,000
Again, she's been hospitalized
many times and she's like,

143
00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:00,800
don't, I don't want to
necessarily be dead today but

144
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,700
I'm afraid I'm going to get back
there and in her case it just

145
00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:08,800
it's more of a question of You
know, I don't know if I want to

146
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,000
keep trying and so it's not, I'm
going to do anything

147
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,300
immediately, but I'm not sure
this really feels worth it.

148
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,200
And I say again, and based on
her, she's 15 years old, her

149
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,700
limited life experience.
If most of your life has been

150
00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:25,300
pain, why would she?
She wants to believe me, and all

151
00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:27,400
these other adults who keep
saying it's going to get better,

152
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,600
just hang on, but everything, in
her life experience is pushing

153
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,100
against that.
And so, yes, there are kids, who

154
00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:36,400
will say, it just doesn't feel
worth it and I don't know other

155
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,100
student who's not.
So, Idol at all, but he was just

156
00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:41,600
saying that again today, he was
just saying, like, I he wishes

157
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,300
his just like, Adams would just
fall apart and he would just

158
00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:45,900
have to stop.
Hold trying to hold himself

159
00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:47,900
together.
He doesn't want to bother his

160
00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:50,000
parents, he doesn't he'll say I
don't want to waste your time.

161
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,900
And I said, even if we're
sitting in silence, you're never

162
00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:54,700
wasting my time, but he's just
like it just want to

163
00:07:54,707 --> 00:07:57,800
disintegrate and he's not going
to do anything.

164
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,900
But yes, it actively engaging in
treatment and help feels

165
00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:04,800
pointless to him at this point.
And that's, that's tough to try

166
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,000
to give because again, we can't,
I can't.

167
00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:09,000
Or hope into their ear or what
not.

168
00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:12,900
I can just reflect back that.
I my belief in them and hope

169
00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:14,600
that, that, that does something
for them.

170
00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:16,700
Right.
You know, it's so refreshing to

171
00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:21,400
hear that kids today, can more
openly talk about it, but when I

172
00:08:21,407 --> 00:08:24,400
was 15 it was only in a mental
hospital.

173
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,500
But I heard anybody else talk
about suicide, which just made

174
00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:29,200
it seem like even at just a
crazier thought like how how

175
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,500
dare I have this contemplation.
So I'm glad that kids are

176
00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:37,000
comfortable enough to to speak
openly about it and it went

177
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,100
Found in my life that no adult
ever.

178
00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:44,700
Told me my 20s, were way better
than my teens and my thirties

179
00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:46,800
were better than my 20s.
And my 40s were better than my

180
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,200
30s.
And even with peers, have

181
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,200
depression and suicidal thinking
in those decades as well.

182
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,600
But, you know, I wouldn't, I
wouldn't want to go be in high

183
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,100
school again, but my dad always
told me that high school with

184
00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:03,000
the best years of your life.
So, I often like, if, when I

185
00:09:03,008 --> 00:09:06,100
need someone bringing person
that's in like, well, good for

186
00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:08,700
you high schools, not your Peak.
That's that's one thing I can

187
00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:10,500
guarantee you if you feel like
so horrible.

188
00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:12,300
So that's one possible way to
spin it.

189
00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:16,200
But yeah, I do that.
I'll often say, hey, middle

190
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,900
school for most, if I
interviewed 100 80 year olds,

191
00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:20,800
the word about the worst time in
their life, it was probably

192
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,400
middle school era and then High
School tends to be about of the

193
00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,500
middle school.
And it just like you said, 20

194
00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:28,400
can be better 30 ski better.
And so it doesn't, if you are

195
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,800
peaking so often we miss,
remember our brain cuts out, all

196
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,100
the boring Gunk, it remembers
the highs and remembers a lows.

197
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,800
And so for people, Who had more
highs the lows in high school?

198
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,900
They kind of long for those
Highs.

199
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,700
But the reality is, the vast
majority of high school is just,

200
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,600
you know, boring Town, French
test, trying to find someone to

201
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,500
sit with at lunch, it's not
terrible.

202
00:09:50,500 --> 00:09:52,300
Is that it?
But yeah, we can do better.

203
00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:54,500
We can do better than that.
Yeah, cool.

204
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,700
Now, do you ever are you are
allowed.

205
00:09:57,700 --> 00:10:00,000
Would you ever talk to teenagers
on your show?

206
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,500
Yeah, I mean, it's something
that it would either require

207
00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:05,100
again parent.
Probably parent consent.

208
00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,000
And I've had a number of my
students request.

209
00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:08,900
Has to be on the show and I'm
just getting better with the

210
00:10:08,900 --> 00:10:11,600
technology to be able to sort of
record with them.

211
00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:15,000
And so I have students that, you
know, particularly my

212
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,500
transgender students or whatnot,
who can share a perspective that

213
00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:20,200
maybe a lot of people aren't as
familiar with that.

214
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,400
I do want to get out into the
world because it's, you know,

215
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,300
it's one thing hearing from me,
the dilemmas that my students

216
00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:27,400
are facing, but I think it means
so much more to people to hear

217
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,300
it from their actual voices.
Yeah, for sure.

218
00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:31,400
Totally agree.
So what was there?

219
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,300
Something specific that prompted
you to start the podcast?

220
00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:44,000
I think I lost a friend of mine
to a heart attack and in I did

221
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,600
his eulogy and in doing his
eulogy I was asking everyone

222
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,800
there to write letters to his
children about you know what,

223
00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:57,800
stories, they remembered things
that he did and I thought to

224
00:10:57,808 --> 00:11:00,700
myself, you know, I actually
have some heart issues and I

225
00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:03,900
thought I want to people have
often told me to write a book or

226
00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:07,000
whatnot, but frankly, a lot of
people don't read these.

227
00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:09,800
Today.
It's so I thought, well, as kind

228
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,300
of this, this podcast is a bit
of a love letter to my children

229
00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:15,300
that if they ever wanted to hear
my voice or my thoughts on

230
00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:19,200
anything, so I hope other people
are getting something out of it,

231
00:11:19,300 --> 00:11:21,900
but every recording to me is
saying, like, here's a little

232
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,300
way Dad's thinking about things
that if they were lose me

233
00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:28,000
tomorrow, they would still have.
They could look up.

234
00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:30,700
Oh, what do you think about
cognitive behavioral therapy or

235
00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:32,900
some of the topics would be more
interesting and less interesting

236
00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:35,300
than others but I think that's
what that's what got me kick

237
00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:37,000
start and it's time, it's time
to do this.

238
00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:41,300
Plus, I am a podcast junkie.
I'm dying, I'm subscribed to 85

239
00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:45,400
podcasts and I listened to quite
a few of, I listen to two and a

240
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,700
half times speed.
So when I hear your voice, it's

241
00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:51,500
often going a lot faster than
isn't like right now.

242
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,200
Wow.
I mean, I feel like I'm I talk

243
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,200
too fast at normal speed
sometimes so I can imagine me

244
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,500
double speed, but a good good
for you to keep up with all

245
00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:03,500
that.
What age are your children right

246
00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:05,900
now?
My older guy is 11 and he just

247
00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:07,000
had his first day of middle
school.

248
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:10,100
School orientation today.
And then, my younger guy is

249
00:12:10,300 --> 00:12:13,200
seven, you mentioned having a
family history.

250
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,400
Do you worry about what your
lineage means for them?

251
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,100
Absolutely.
And I remember, I remember my

252
00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,700
dating life.
I was dating this girl who she

253
00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:25,500
had a diagnosis of bipolar
disorder.

254
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:28,700
And I remember part of the
reason I thought, you know,

255
00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:30,900
again it wasn't the whole thing.
But by breaking up is like well

256
00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:34,400
with my family history with her
genetics, that just seems like a

257
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,400
bad.
You know, that very Risky

258
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,900
investment.
But yeah, I worry about every

259
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:43,200
time, my kids may be overly
emotional about something, I

260
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,500
worry, you'll get, will they be
back?

261
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:48,700
So I have You know, several
nephews and nieces who have been

262
00:12:48,700 --> 00:12:51,700
hospitalized for being suicidal.
I did, I lost one of my nephew's

263
00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:55,500
to Suicide the last January so
knowing.

264
00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:58,800
But I think the only advantage
of having a family with this

265
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,600
kind of history is I will get my
kids if they're showing things

266
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,800
like we already had my younger
guy working with the school,

267
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,100
social worker, you know, during
his first grade year just

268
00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:10,800
because again, he has some
really strong emotional

269
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,600
reactions to thing.
And I think by normalizing that.

270
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,800
Hey, it's okay.
When you get sometimes my Gravel

271
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,000
just he'll start crying and say
I'm sad and I don't know why and

272
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,600
I'll say that's okay.
You're just having too many like

273
00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:26,000
your emotions are coming faster
right now than your words can

274
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,200
come.
And so normalizing that for him

275
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,100
and saying again, that it's okay
not to be okay.

276
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,200
And so planting that seed early
on and that it's okay to get

277
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,900
help, I'm hoping that that will
be the key to.

278
00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:41,200
They may always have some
challenges and reframing this

279
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,300
idea that whatever we think of
as a weakness can be our super

280
00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:48,500
power and that you No, I my
favorite superhero Spider-Man

281
00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:51,100
and one of Spider-Man's Powers
is Spider Sense.

282
00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:54,400
And in our day-to-day lives
anxiety is kind of like Spider

283
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,600
Sense it alerts you to things
that could be potential dangers.

284
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,000
Now what we have to do with
anxieties, we have to learn to

285
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,800
ignore it when it's not a real
danger and I'm sure Spider-Man

286
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,900
had to do that all the time.
It's like, oh, that pizza

287
00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:06,600
delivery guy is not going to
punch me in the back of the head

288
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:11,800
but in depressions, superpower
can be heightened empathy.

289
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,700
And I went through a depressive
period when I was in Middle

290
00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:18,600
School and I think that's also
so much of what made me

291
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,100
empathetic to friends to family
to other people like that to

292
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:25,100
realize and the incredible
impact that adults had a my

293
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:27,800
life.
When I was 13 years old by just

294
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,900
giving a little bit of belief
and saying like, hey, at that

295
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:33,600
right time when that person
comes in and they show a belief

296
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,800
in you that can change the
course of your life.

297
00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:38,800
So I think I hope for my kids.
If they do have mental health

298
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,900
challenges, we can eventually
help them reframe them, as

299
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:46,500
Something that makes you special
and different but not less than

300
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:51,100
that, that notion of how
powerful an adult believing in

301
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:55,100
you is really to, like it just
brought to my, so I, I can still

302
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:58,800
remember and the fifth grade.
I was goofing off in gym class

303
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,200
doing something.
I wasn't supposed to whatever it

304
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,700
was and the the teacher pulled
me aside and just said, you

305
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:07,600
know, Andy, you're going to be a
force of nature.

306
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,800
Like, you have this your
charismatic and you don't even

307
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,500
realize it, and your shoulders
are really broad.

308
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:15,400
You going to be this Big man,
you're just I know it but if you

309
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,800
goof off and don't pay
attention, you're going to blow

310
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,300
all that potential that you
have.

311
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,300
And I was like, what really?
Like I think, you know, I just

312
00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:27,400
felt like this fat unquoted kid.
I'm just trying to hide and not

313
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,900
be noticed in your gym class and
he's talking about how I'm,

314
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:32,800
like, like my physical stature
is intimidating and like, wow,

315
00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:38,300
but I've never forgot that.
So, such a casual comment but

316
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:41,200
it's someone taking the time to
like, you know, look at child in

317
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,700
the eyes and say, Something
good, something positive,

318
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:45,100
something hopeful about the
future?

319
00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:48,200
Yeah, can just be a tremendous
impact.

320
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,400
Now, you mentioned Contracting
for safety earlier and I want to

321
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,300
kind of get back to that.
And like I know what that means

322
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:55,900
because I've lived through many
of them.

323
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,900
But for someone that's not
familiar with that term.

324
00:15:57,900 --> 00:15:59,100
Could you could you explain
what?

325
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:02,100
That is sure.
It's again for a mental health.

326
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:04,000
Professional or what not?
When were assessing someone we

327
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,300
might say again, like, can you
promise me?

328
00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:09,600
It's a promise made by the
client that they are going to be

329
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,600
alive and that they're going to
sometimes when your A safety

330
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,100
plan with someone.
That who will you contact if

331
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,600
things get worse or whatnot?
And people who've never been

332
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,000
through depression, will often
ask me?

333
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,800
Well, why wouldn't they just
lie?

334
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,800
Why wouldn't they just say and
often as people get really

335
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,100
depressed, they start to lose
cognitive flexibility.

336
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,900
So if they just can't think of
other Alternatives and often,

337
00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:32,100
they're so exhausted.
By the way, they're feeling like

338
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,500
that.
They they won't bother to lie.

339
00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:39,200
They and I have had multiple
clients who have said, I was mid

340
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,700
suicide attempt but I made
myself throw up the pills I made

341
00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,200
myself Elf do whichever because
I remember that promise that I

342
00:16:44,208 --> 00:16:47,000
made you.
So we don't know exactly why it

343
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,400
works.
We do know though, a clay that

344
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,300
Contracting for safety.
Does people tend to follow

345
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:54,900
through on their promises?
And it's when they are showing

346
00:16:54,900 --> 00:16:58,200
reservations on that, that is a
gigantic red flag.

347
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,700
So, we're looking for things.
Like, when were assessing risk,

348
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:04,500
does a person have a plan?
If they have a plan, is their

349
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:08,400
plan realistic, how are they
thinking about death and the

350
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,300
afterlife?
You know, so we're taking all of

351
00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:12,599
those things into account.
I remember, I had Girl, and I

352
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:14,099
asked her, well, what do you
think?

353
00:17:14,099 --> 00:17:15,700
It's like to be dead in her
face?

354
00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:17,599
Just lit up with a glow of
happiness.

355
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,700
She's like, I'd be with my
grandma again and I said oh no

356
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:25,200
like this like this is, yeah.
So we have to Justice taking all

357
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,600
those factors into account of
what is what is the entire

358
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,700
suicidal risk here?
But then when they make those

359
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:33,800
contracts and then saying like
how what do they need to help

360
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,900
support that contract for safety
and what?

361
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:37,200
And when are we going to assess
again?

362
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,900
Because we never want to say,
oh, okay you're not suicidal,

363
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:41,900
you're free to go and see any
year.

364
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,400
Here.
It means we have to keep

365
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,200
assessing until those Suicidal
Thoughts are not coming.

366
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,800
So, there are some kids.
I might literally make a

367
00:17:48,808 --> 00:17:52,100
contract for safety with every
single day and say, okay, coming

368
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:55,600
back in tomorrow until we're not
having intrusive - Suicidal

369
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:56,500
Thoughts.
Yeah.

370
00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:59,700
You know, we talked about this
in one of our earlier

371
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:01,400
conversations which was not a
show.

372
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,800
We actually just talked to for
the sake of talking and I was

373
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,100
always like I would lie and
manipulate with the best of

374
00:18:09,108 --> 00:18:11,500
them.
But when when someone said, can

375
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:12,700
you promise me?
You're safe.

376
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,300
Can you promise you?
You're gonna show up tomorrow

377
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:15,300
that you're gonna live through
today.

378
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:18,600
I could say, yes.
And I, yeah, I meant it, and I

379
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,700
was like, what sort of weirdo am
I that the, the strongest

380
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,000
committed I'll make is only when
I'm, you know, at my lowest.

381
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,200
I'll promise this guy.
I just met that.

382
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,300
Yeah, I'll keep going.
And I've had that I've, you

383
00:18:29,308 --> 00:18:31,500
know, I would look back and
like, oh, I really want to do

384
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:34,800
something bad right now.
Like I promised that therapist

385
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,800
that, that I'd stick around
like, all right.

386
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,100
And so it's really cool to hear
you explain it and because yeah

387
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,800
and I just thought him, I just
bizarrely.

388
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,900
You know, it's weird.
I'll be honest at my lowest

389
00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:49,600
moments or actually, sometimes I
thought since that since this

390
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,400
promise is so important, this is
truly another sign that and I

391
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,100
don't really want to die.
Hmm.

392
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,900
And so again I think it's that
especially an adult to a

393
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:04,100
teenager or child like someone
else believe in you that much

394
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:06,000
and asking you to promise to
stick around.

395
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,300
There's such a power in that
that I never appreciated when I

396
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:13,200
was on the other side of that.
When I get I'm very

397
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,600
manipulative.
And but what I always say to the

398
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,000
students is I'm never gonna
manipulate with you with lies.

399
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,500
I'm only going to manipulate you
with truth and I say, you know,

400
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:25,800
if you die, I love you.
It's going to destroy me, but

401
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,200
that's not the reason to stay
alive.

402
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,200
I don't want you to stay alive
for your friends, for your

403
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,200
mother.
For me, I want you to stay alive

404
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,300
because I really truly believe
your life is going to get

405
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,200
better.
But, you know, we do ask

406
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,200
manipulative question,
sometimes, like, who would find

407
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,200
your body and you know, like
things like that are You know,

408
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,500
like they can stagger person and
take them home to the reality.

409
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:47,300
They don't want to hurt other
people and of the hundreds of

410
00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:50,100
people, I've worked with who
made suicide attempts, none of

411
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:51,500
them.
None of the people I've worked

412
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,300
with who made a suicide attempt
to really want it to die.

413
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:56,200
They just wanted the pain to
stop.

414
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,000
And so giving any other out for
how that can happen but there is

415
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,200
and if this sounds crazy but it
people are more, they would

416
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,800
rather face death, then face the
shame of going and asking their

417
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,200
family for help asking because
and unfortunately this is the

418
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,400
truly tragic thing.
Very frequently.

419
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,900
When we tell parents your child
is suicidal, like they didn't

420
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:18,600
want to tell you that though
they're just doing it for

421
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,700
attention.
It's like, no no one's doing

422
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,700
that.
At that point for just

423
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:24,900
attention, if they are.
And if they want attention that

424
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:27,700
badly, there's something else
really wrong there because there

425
00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:29,100
should be a better way to break
a window.

426
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:30,900
Do something else like that go,
you know?

427
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:32,700
Like but the like if that's the
way they're trying to get

428
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,700
attention, we need something's
wrong with their system and

429
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:37,700
their way of getting help.
Yeah, I've always heard hated

430
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:39,800
that phrase because I'm like
well then give this some

431
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,500
attention.
All right.

432
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,600
That's an easy prescription to
fill or the other one.

433
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,500
I always hated talking about a
suicide attempt, you know?

434
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,400
Oh the it's just, they just
asked him, is just a very,

435
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:50,900
they're asking for help.
They just looking for help and

436
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:53,500
attention.
And the like every other way in

437
00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:58,500
case, if someone is in the ocean
drowning says, help help you go

438
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,100
in and help them, but it like a
suicide attempt was a cry for

439
00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:03,200
help.
Oh, we can ignore it just a cry

440
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,200
for help.
They didn't really, really want

441
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,900
to die.
Um, well then all the more

442
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:09,300
reason to help them.
Well, I think that people don't

443
00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:11,900
realize, what a big deal, it is
is something called a parachute.

444
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,500
That attempt an apparent suicide
attempt is a suicide attempt

445
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:17,000
that we know would not be
lethal.

446
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,700
So I person who they make a
like, news for themself out of

447
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:26,000
like, dental floss or whatnot,
or they are like just using a

448
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,700
butter knife to kind of like
slid along their wrists or doing

449
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,500
things like that.
Everyone knows that it's not

450
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,000
likely to be lethal.
But what there it's it's a very

451
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,300
big deal and dangerous because
they are rehearsing.

452
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:39,000
Yeah.
And when they're rehearsing that

453
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,700
thing and it means they're doing
it with a plan in their mind and

454
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:45,200
this Is like major danger sign.
And so somebody seeing that are

455
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,400
hearing that might think.
Oh they're just doing that for

456
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,700
attention.
When in reality like this is.

457
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,900
Hey, this is one of our last
chance as we've got to move.

458
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:54,800
Now to give this person more
help when the pair of suicide

459
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,300
attempts are showing up, I can
remember visiting a family with

460
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:03,200
friends of my dad.
I was in Middle School, and the

461
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,500
parents were making fun of their
daughter because the night

462
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,200
before, she had attempted
suicide via an overdose of

463
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,800
aspirin and they're all Lee
mocking her for thinking that

464
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,400
would do anything and I wanted
to punch them both in the face

465
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,800
because about a month earlier,
it was the first suicide

466
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,300
attempt.
I remember I swallowed a whole

467
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,700
bottle of aspirin because I
thought you could OD on

468
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:28,500
anything.
I thought anything right in the

469
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:31,600
in the wrong amount of the right
amount depending how I wanted to

470
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,700
look at it would get me out of
here.

471
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:39,800
So yeah, I was horrified that
they were doing that and it's

472
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:41,700
like yeah I want to I still want
to go fight them.

473
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,800
But I never I never met that
feeling again.

474
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,700
That was my only experience with
them and stuck with me for my

475
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:50,500
entire life.
But like everything counts

476
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,500
tonight and I had lots of the
practice the rehearsing.

477
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:56,800
I had, you know, the cut marks
on my, my wrists that weren't

478
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,300
really like, can I do this?
When would I be will I bleed

479
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:00,800
yet?
Is this knife sharp enough?

480
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,400
I had all that sort of nonsense.
So yeah and everything.

481
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,700
Counts, everything matters.
Yeah.

482
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:10,500
Yeah.
And so that the diminishing of

483
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:14,900
people's feelings and again that
That's what gets so many men to

484
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:18,800
internalize their feelings or
express it through anger as

485
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,100
opposed to.
Because when the idea of being

486
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:26,000
mocked for having feelings for
having, you know, just this idea

487
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,200
of indecision or whatnot, it
just it makes a person.

488
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:31,400
Say forget it.
I would rather, I would

489
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,300
literally rather die than the
expose myself to that shame in

490
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,800
that ridicule.
And so, that's some of the one

491
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,000
of the things that were pushing
against with so many families

492
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,800
and giving families to
education, most of most families

493
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,100
Of their children.
But there are four there,

494
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:48,500
unfortunately, they're more
afraid of creating soft children

495
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:52,400
who are dependent, then they are
of make, they're doing the

496
00:23:52,408 --> 00:23:54,300
things that make their children
might not survive to adulthood.

497
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:59,400
And so it, we again, we have to
say, we're prepare the child for

498
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,800
the path, not the path of the
child, we're not trying.

499
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,600
I'm never trying to say just
toddle your children, but we do

500
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,300
have to listen to them and say
are we on a sustainable path?

501
00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:10,000
And are we doing things that are
going to make this child?

502
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,200
Feel like they can become an And
in healthy adult.

503
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,200
Now they have the skills to do
that.

504
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,100
And whenever we're belittling
someone for diminishing them,

505
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,000
that's not helping them to
become an independent

506
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,300
successful.
Healthy adult.

507
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:29,600
So in today's Times of so much
separation and you know, almost

508
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,800
Civil War level of discourse
politically socially.

509
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,600
Are you seeing more of that
showing up in the lives of kids?

510
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:40,400
Yeah, I think a feeling that
just, you know, for some

511
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,400
families like okay, we're not
raising a Snowflake here and you

512
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,500
know, just, oh, the particularly
for certain families, this idea

513
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:50,100
of expression, even the term
like political correctness.

514
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:54,600
Well, when you say that term,
you are saying things don't

515
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,700
matter, unless they affect me or
the people that I care about,

516
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,200
you know, because really
whenever we're something is

517
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,100
politically, correct?
And you all were saying, is we

518
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:05,000
want to give Credence to other
people's feelings and a

519
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,000
different perspective and way of
looking at things.

520
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,200
So we only are, it's a matter to
management or I was listening to

521
00:25:10,208 --> 00:25:13,500
something Ibaka.
Hodgins squared today about is

522
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:17,100
cancel culture, toxic, but even
even this idea of cancel

523
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,800
culture, it is diminishing.
This idea, you know, just be

524
00:25:19,808 --> 00:25:22,600
saying, hey, people's feelings
matter.

525
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:25,700
If you can go through life,
without going out of your way to

526
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:27,500
hurt people's feelings, try to
do that.

527
00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:31,100
If you do just apologize for and
recognize it, it's not asking

528
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:33,900
anyone to radically transform
the way they're operating.

529
00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:37,900
It's just about an awareness and
so, but, unfortunately, it's

530
00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:42,500
become somewhat political to
just acknowledge and And we have

531
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:47,200
had so many more kids since the
pandemic come out as gender

532
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,300
non-binary or transgender.
And I think while kids were on

533
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:55,000
doing school over computers and
things like that and they could

534
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,700
turn their cameras off a lot,
more of them, were able to

535
00:25:57,700 --> 00:25:59,600
explore.
Hey, I can be whatever gender I

536
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,400
want.
I can be whatever gender really

537
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,700
impacts me.
And so when we came back from

538
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:06,400
the pandemic, it was like, you
know, flowers that sprouted

539
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,000
overnight.
They kids were everywhere and

540
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,600
it's just an interesting.
So I'm seeing things changes on.

541
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:17,700
Fuel all over the place but it
creates a level of anxiety for

542
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:22,000
kids because anytime someone
sees someone be judgmental about

543
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,300
any other group, it makes them
Wonder.

544
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,000
Well what might they say about
me?

545
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,800
You know, so if I hear this, my
family member and their

546
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:32,100
rallying, you know, against
black lives matter or against

547
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:36,200
anything else, hey what if I
expressed that I'm Different in

548
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,600
some other way, it doesn't feel
safe and it gives them this

549
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,600
message.
I have to just be quiet and hide

550
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,300
Who I Really Am.
Hide my feelings.

551
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,100
So that's hard.
Yeah.

552
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:49,700
Anytime someone is witnessing
and other be blamed or shun than

553
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:51,600
they imagined.
Oh, what if, what if I'm another

554
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,000
or realizing?
I know I am in other but nobody

555
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,100
knows it yet.
And yeah, yeah.

556
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,300
Yeah, life isn't easy but no but
it's worth living.

557
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:05,100
Yeah, and that's that's a huge
that that took me decades to get

558
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:09,000
it really did, but that if Ike
fair, if I could enforce some

559
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,100
class at every school system it
would be the you know your life

560
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:16,400
is worth living class.
But what and I think if we if we

561
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,100
view life as being unsuccessful,
if we're not happy then, lots of

562
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:21,800
people are going to feel like
they're unsuccessful.

563
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:25,500
Life isn't promised us happiness
life promises as an experience

564
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:28,600
and I think The more we can say
the ups and the Downs, like,

565
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,500
when we go to a movie or a play,
we would never go to a movie or

566
00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:34,200
play.
That was nothing but just happy.

567
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,200
Snapshot happy, snapshot we want
some drama?

568
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,900
Some conflict, I was asking to
student today is friction good

569
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:44,100
or bad and if first she was
like, well, bad and it's like,

570
00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:45,300
well then we couldn't go
anywhere.

571
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:48,300
We need friction but too much is
wearing our skin off.

572
00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:51,200
It's terrible.
So that's we were not supposed

573
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,600
to be happy all the time.
We're here for an experience and

574
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,300
if we once we can Embrace that,
that even though Hounds are

575
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:00,000
there interesting.
There's something different.

576
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,700
And so again, I would rather,
when I was a coach, I would say,

577
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:06,900
I would rather lose a lacrosse
game, you know, 2:44, then when

578
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:09,500
a baseball game 928 because I'd
rather play playing lacrosse.

579
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:12,800
I yeah.
So that's like even losing can

580
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,700
be a memory, it can be an
experience and let's drink that

581
00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:19,700
up.
So you have lots of cool ways

582
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:22,600
that your of service.
So I want to move on to another

583
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,200
one.
So tell me about pause for

584
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,600
Patrick.
What is that?

585
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:33,400
So Patrick was my student and
during the pandemic during May

586
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,900
of 2020, he took his own life
and he and I had been very

587
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:40,500
close, but he was one of those
people for whom therapy, really

588
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:42,200
didn't work.
He had a very hard time

589
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,800
expressing himself.
In words when he was having a

590
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,300
hard day throughout his high
school career, he would just

591
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:51,100
want to go home and be with his
dog and that was all he wanted

592
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:53,600
and his parents.
They tried everything they tried

593
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,000
therapy, they tried medication,
they sent him to a therapeutic

594
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,700
School.
And sent him to a Wilderness

595
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,400
Program and, you know, they
loved him.

596
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,700
But again the pain that he was
feeling inside, he just could

597
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:06,600
not express.
So when he died there was a

598
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,800
GoFundMe that was made for the
family and the family said you

599
00:29:08,808 --> 00:29:11,100
know this is nice but we don't
really need this money.

600
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:14,100
We want to do something with it
to honor Patrick's memory in his

601
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:17,900
legacy and so they said what
would again really he cared

602
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:21,100
about was animals and the impact
that animals can have soap

603
00:29:21,100 --> 00:29:22,300
officer, Patrick, has
organization.

604
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:25,300
That's dedicated to bringing the
Love of Animals, the people who

605
00:29:25,308 --> 00:29:27,600
need it.
The most And so, we do that in

606
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,900
two ways, we help people who
have mental health disorders.

607
00:29:30,900 --> 00:29:35,000
Get emotional, support animals
and we also have a team of

608
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,800
Therapy Dog.
Handlers who bring therapy dogs

609
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,100
to different?
I'll bring the schools or

610
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:41,500
hospitals.
So for people who can't have

611
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:44,000
animals at all, they can have
contact with animals.

612
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:46,700
So there was unfortunately.
In Highland Park Illinois, there

613
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:48,600
was a shooting at the July 4th
parade.

614
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,000
So we brought therapy dogs to
where the people were, you know,

615
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,400
that in the days and weeks,
after we brought therapy dogs to

616
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,400
just be with people, So they can
pet them and, you know,

617
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,100
decompress and whatnot.
So my role is the mental health

618
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:04,100
advisor, so when a person
contacts pause for Patrick, they

619
00:30:04,108 --> 00:30:07,000
get assigned a wish granter, who
will be sort of their case

620
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,600
manager.
Some people need help getting an

621
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,300
animal.
So we can pay up to $500 to help

622
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,100
person acquire an animal.
And then if they need training

623
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:18,500
for that animal and we're not
talking about service dog

624
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:19,700
training.
We're talking about like General

625
00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:23,400
obedience type training but we
can pay up to $750 for them.

626
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,700
So that the dog isn't, you know,
getting him kicked out of their

627
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:27,700
apartment, if not Park, King too
much, it's not doing whatever.

628
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:32,100
And then I, as one of the
therapists in our team, might

629
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,400
write a assess, a person, and
then write an Esa letter.

630
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,000
So they can have that animal in
their apartment, or their

631
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,900
college dorm or whatnot.
And so again, our goal just to

632
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:42,800
help whoever needs it.
Awesome.

633
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,200
Handsome and is this, is this
local to the Chicago area only

634
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,300
or know so far.
We've helped people in 29 States

635
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,600
and you know, so it's we're
actively recruiting volunteers,

636
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,500
and particularly therapists in
all different.

637
00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:00,000
It's because you know,
technically people are supposed

638
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,600
to be with Telehealth.
They've allowed some reciprocity

639
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,000
and opening things up, but for
example, California in

640
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,400
particular, the therapist has to
be in the state, you know, for

641
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,600
the NES a letter to be valid.
So I can't just necessarily do

642
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:12,800
yes.
A letter for someone in

643
00:31:12,808 --> 00:31:15,600
California, even though I'm a
licensed clinician Illinois.

644
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:18,200
So but yeah.
So we're recruiting people and

645
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,200
we help people all over so they
don't need to be in Illinois for

646
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,800
us to help them out.
Awesome.

647
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,600
Dana want to give you one a
chance to find out more

648
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,700
information about you and the
podcast and pause for Patrick.

649
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:35,700
So, is there one place to go?
They covers that all or what do

650
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:38,900
we need to mention?
What wise I would say, people

651
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:41,800
should go to pause for Patrick
dot org and find out more about

652
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,000
posture, Patrick, they can find
my bio on there.

653
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:46,400
And then if they do, they, if
they are interested in the

654
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,400
podcast, they can just go to.
They can just Google search not

655
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,300
allowed to die podcast, and then
it'll take whether they listed

656
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:56,100
on a podcast or whether they
listen on Android, they'll find

657
00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:58,900
Thanks to Stitcher.
I mean whatever that is that

658
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:01,100
where they would like to listen
and be able to rate it, but I

659
00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:03,900
would encourage please anybody
go to pause for Patrick and

660
00:32:03,900 --> 00:32:06,000
spread the word about that.
Because we feel like there are

661
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,300
so many young people who could
truly benefit and who might be

662
00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:11,900
able to have whether having a
cat, a dog, whatever.

663
00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:14,500
In their home, can make a
tremendous difference in their

664
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:16,700
mental health because no
therapist is going to be there

665
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:18,300
for you.
Three in the morning but your

666
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:20,100
dog, your cat.
When you wake up with a bad

667
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:22,900
dream, they might be able to be
there and that can make all the

668
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:25,500
difference in the world.
Ya know from personal

669
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:27,400
experience.
I guarantee that that can make

670
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,800
all the difference in the world.
And yeah, I've survived many

671
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,400
times and, you know, down to the
moments that I didn't think I

672
00:32:33,408 --> 00:32:36,600
was going to get through due to
a pet, so that's awesome.

673
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,300
Before I Let You Go Dan one,
final question, Is there one

674
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:43,100
thing that you wish more men
knew?

675
00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:51,900
That their value as men is, it
has to be determined by them.

676
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:54,200
My favorite quote comes from
Faulkner's, the sound and the

677
00:32:54,208 --> 00:32:57,400
Fury, and it's a teach men as
the Arbiter of his own virtue.

678
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,700
Meaning, you know, if you the
father is talking to his son and

679
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:04,600
he's the son is trying to
justify waiting stick up her

680
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,100
sister and he's saying Hey
listen if you did the wrong

681
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:09,400
thing and you convinced me, you
did something right, what good

682
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,400
is it if you did the right thing
and I don't believe you, it

683
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,100
doesn't matter.
You have to be able to look in

684
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:15,900
the mirror and every day like
that.

685
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:19,900
That's your only judge and we
have to stop setting ourselves.

686
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,100
An example of comparison to any
other person.

687
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:26,300
You have value every day just
being on this planet, your

688
00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:30,000
presence here is enough.
Then if you do anything else to

689
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,700
help another person that's a
bonus, but until you believe

690
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:36,900
that it doesn't matter.
Stop trying to prove your

691
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:39,300
manliness your Worth to anybody
else.

692
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,300
When you, once you can prove it
to the guy in the mirror,

693
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,000
everything else will take care
of itself.

694
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:45,900
Totally agree.
Well, thanks.

695
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,600
Dan.
As always, I always loved the

696
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,500
conversations and and all the
ways of service and value that

697
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:56,200
you are our being and bringing
into the world and want to thank

698
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,900
everyone for joining us today.
Wherever you were discovering

699
00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:00,700
real men.
Feel, Please Subscribe, follow,

700
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,600
like, share, do whatever.
The thing is, that's allowed on

701
00:34:03,608 --> 00:34:05,900
the platform that you're
listening to post.

702
00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:07,800
Review a comment, share this
with somebody.

703
00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:09,900
As always, you can reach out to
me at real men.

704
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:13,699
Feel at gmail.com, if you want
to explore, what your life might

705
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:15,900
be, like, with more authenticity
Focus.

706
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,199
Free Clarity call with me, by
visiting the handy, Grant.com,

707
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:22,300
talk.
And until next time, be good to

708
00:34:22,308 --> 00:34:22,900
yourself.