Redefining Masculinity: Busting the 'Happy Wife, Happy Life' Myth

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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This is your host, Andy Grant.
Please visit theandygrant.com to

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learn more about me.
Real Men Feel will exist to

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remind men that they are human
beings and that they have the

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right, the need, and the ability
to feel and express all of their

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emotions.
We have conversations that most

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men are not having, but that all
men can benefit from.

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My guest today is Frederick Van
Reifer.

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Fred is a men's Relationship and
leadership coach dedicated to

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helping men and dads lead with
purpose at work and at home.

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He empowers men to create
balanced lives, building deep

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connections with their partners
and children while excelling

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professionally.
Fred gives lots of great advice

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for dads to be more than a
provider of income and how to

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create deeper connections in all
of your relationships.

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We have a wonderfully deep and
wide conversation touching on

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everything from shame to
journaling.

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Fred shares about antiquated
gender assumptions, how the

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death of his father changed his
life, and the fact that asking

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for help is strength.
Let's do it.

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Hello Fred, and welcome to Real
Men Feel.

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Andy, thanks for having me.
I.

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Think it was late October that
we crossed paths on LinkedIn.

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There was one post in
particular.

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Well, you have a lot of great
content, but there was one post

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in particular that immediately
made me reach out and I think it

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was happy wife, happy life,
right?

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And wouldn't you like?
No, that's just not the case for

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so many people.
What was the rest of that?

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Do you remember?
Like what?

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What was the the main gist of
why happy wife, happy life isn't

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the key to.
Success.

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Yeah, I mean speaking from my
own experience, I've been

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married now 10 years, my dad to
two kids, teenager, 17 year old

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daughter and a nine year old
son.

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And I think happy life, happy,
happy wife has been or happy

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wife, happy life has been
something that we've heard since

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we were kids, right?
But when the truth is when,

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when, when I got married.
And I think when a lot of us get

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married or even just not
married, but in a partnership,

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we don't really know what the
hell we're doing.

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We really don't.
It's kind of like a, you know,

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trial and error in a lot of
ways.

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And what I've found is that you
can get lost in that idea of

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like, I'm going to do what I
have to do to make my wife

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happy, to make my partner happy,
But you lose a bit of yourself.

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And it's important to, it's not,
it's not so much being selfish,

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but it's about remembering that
you're a person too.

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And some people like to twist it
and say happy house, happy

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spouse.
And I, I still don't love it

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because the truth is it's, it's,
it's not your job to make

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someone else happy.
It's your job to make you happy.

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And I think we lose sight of
that when we get into a

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partnership.
So what when I work with men, I

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do recommend being selfish
because a whole happy, healthy

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man makes everyone around him
better make his wife is happy,

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his kids are happier, the
workplace is happier.

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But but yeah, I'm not, not
selfish in the sense of, yeah,

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you know, I need something so
I'm going to take it from you.

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Not that.
But that sense of putting

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yourself first isn't selfish.
Right.

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I mean, if if you read about
people pleasing, right, a lot of

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us are people pleasers and it's
a terrible habit to be in

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because if you do that, then
then you're kind of losing kind

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of who who you are and then
you're unhappy.

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So pleasing someone else, you're
not really pleasing yourself and

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then you're expecting someone
else like your partner, perhaps

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in a, in a, in a relationship
to, to do something and it

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becomes transactional.
And that's the problem here is

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like, in my, in my view,
partnerships are not supposed to

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be transactional.
They're supposed to be, you

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know, a true partnership is how
do I show up today?

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How do I show up?
There's me best so that I serve

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my family best so that I can be
a great member of the community

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and help strangers and help the
world heal.

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That's the way I approach life.
And I'm not saying I'm perfect.

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I, I have plenty of days where I
don't hit that mark.

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But I think the intention there
is is, you know, how can I make

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my life better and how can I
make other people's lives

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better?
So you mentioned hearing happy

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wife, happy life while you're
growing up.

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What?
What else did you hear growing

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up that told you what it meant
to be a man?

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Don't, I mean, probably a lot of
what you've heard and what a lot

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of men listening I've heard, you
know, man up, you know, you're

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not if you're not man enough.
I've been called gay many times

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over as if that's a, a negative.
And I think that's awful.

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It's, it's this pressure to fit
in to, to fit into this really

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narrow definition of what it
means to be a man.

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And I, I talk about this a lot
on LinkedIn.

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Masculinity is whatever you
allow it to be.

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And if you were trying to make
it something very specific and

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very narrow, well, then you're
limiting yourself to who you can

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be as a human being.
And we are human first, men 2nd.

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And so I, I, I like to think
that masculinity can be

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expansive, that we are, there is
no right way to be a man.

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It's up to you to decide what
fits for you.

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And, and that doesn't mean you
don't, that doesn't mean you

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have to give up some quote UN
quote manly things, right?

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Like we, we love, we love
wrestling, we love cars, we

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love, you know, some of this
more macho, manly stuff.

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There's nothing wrong with that.
But you can all it can be both

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and you can love working on your
car and you can also love

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watching a ballet with your
daughter and not so much.

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And I'm not that's probably a
bad example because I don't

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really love ballet myself, but
but I love spending time with my

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daughter.
So I will do, I will do things

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that maybe aren't naturally
quote UN quote manly, because I

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want to connect.
And I think if we, if we limit

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ourselves, you know, what are we
doing here?

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Like why, why is why are we
trying to and, and the judgement

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too, Andy and we, we get judged,
we judge ourselves, but we also

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get judged by other men.
And I think that pressure is

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real, that pressure to fit in.
We want it's a biological thing

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because in the past, when we
were hunters, you know,

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thousands of years ago, hundreds
of years ago, it was, well, we

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have to go out to survive.
We have to.

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And if we and if we're judged
negatively and we don't fit in,

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then we're gonna get kicked out
of the tribe and we're probably

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going to die.
And so I think there's some

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leftover biological stuff there
deep down.

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But truly it's it's it's easy to
fall prey to that pressure and

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just do things that we maybe
aren't in line and authentic

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because we're so afraid of not
fitting in.

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Yeah, I would say that the only
definition of masculinity that

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matters is yours.
As I said, men do whatever you

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do, right?
You consider yourself a man or a

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male, whatever we own.
But like then whatever you do is

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what a man does.
You can't do something that

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breaks.
You can't have your man card

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revoked or any of that sort of
nonsense.

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You know, being your authentic
self, making yourself happy.

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And then you said so many times,
being of service to others that

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that's ideally what men do.
They lead to serve, not lead to

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take.
Right.

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And, and and to and to add to
that, men also cry.

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Men can be sad and that's OK if
you're not in touch with that

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emotion.
It is a difficult 1 and I get it

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like it's, it's not something
fun to deal with, but you have

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to be able to sit with your
emotions and process your

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emotions and regulate your
emotions.

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It especially as a dad, this is
something that I needed to

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learn.
You know, it was something I

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wasn't used to doing because as
growing up as a man, as a boy,

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you know, it was beating out of
me.

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It was, it was something that
wasn't quote UN quote manly.

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So for me to fit in, I didn't
engage in a lot of that.

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And so getting more comfortable
now as a father, I see the value

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in allowing yourself to feel,
you know, real men feel.

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I, I, I believe that's true.
And I think it's important if

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you are a man who stress, it's
important to talk about it and

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comfortable talking about it,
even if that's with yourself,

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right.
You don't have to go out and you

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know, be the leader if unless
you want to talking about your

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emotions all the time.
But I think journaling or, or

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writing some thoughts down and
kind of processing on your own

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is, is a super helpful way to
start that journey.

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I have a free guide on my
website called How to build

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emotional resilience.
I think it's super helpful for

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any men that maybe haven't done
this work before to download,

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and it's a free download just to
kind of work through some of

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your emotions.
I love the quote.

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Anger is another emotion that
men feel a lot and we struggle

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some sometimes to process that
emotion and we let it impact the

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the words we say or the actions
we take.

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But I love the quote.
I sat with my anger long enough

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until she told me her real name
was Grief by CS Lewis.

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And it's true.
It's, you know, our anger is

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coming from somewhere else.
Like what, where, what's the

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root cause of that?
And how can we sit with it long

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enough to realize it's grief?
And then how can we process

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through our grief and heal?
Was it society overall that gave

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you those narrow messages of
masculinity, or was it your own

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father passing that along?
Like how, how did?

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How was that experience for you?
Yeah, that's a great question.

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I think it was more, more
society, more friendships, more,

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you know, growing up a boy in
the, and as a teenager in the,

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the mid to late 90s young man in
the 2000s, I think I got a lot

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of that messaging from Pierce.
My dad was a pretty traditional

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husband.
So I think I learned a lot of

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like traditional ways of
managing a household from my

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dad.
The ideas of, you know, dad will

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carve the Turkey on
Thanksgiving.

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Dad will cook maybe steak, but
he doesn't necessarily cook most

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of the meals.
Dad will mow the lawn and open

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the pool and shovel the snow,
but he did and take out the

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garbage, but he won't vacuum and
he won't dust, right?

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It's these bones equated gender
assumptions, I call them.

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And so I learned a lot of
traditional kind of ways of

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managing a household for my dad.
But my dad was a feeler, I would

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say.
I, I saw him tell this story

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because it really impacted me.
So in the early 90s, we had a

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recession here in the United
States and my dad lost his job.

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And up to that point, I don't
really recall my dad ever

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crying.
But I remember the day that

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happened and I, I heard this
really deep guttural cry, a cry

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I've never heard before from
from any man.

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And it was one of like really
deep pains.

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At the time, I was 12 or 13
years old, so I didn't really

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fully understand.
I just care for my dad and I

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wanted to make him feel better.
So I remember like helping him

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type this is that before days of
computers, I remember helping

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him type up resumes on a
typewriter to apply for jobs.

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But I, but looking back on it
now, like this idea that men

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have to be the provider
financially is such a

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heavyweight that men carry.
And it's real and we do and I

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agree we do have to provide for
our families, but things have

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shifted quite a bit since the
90s and most, most couples today

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are dual income households.
And so there's this like really

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tough kind of like shift that
men struggle with, which is how

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can we redefine provider to mean
providing love, providing

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attention, providing care?
You know, I'm the idea of like

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an identity for men as a
provider, but it do you identify

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as a caregiver?
If you're a dad, you should, but

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I think a lot of dads struggle
with that.

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It's like, well, if I bring home
the bacon, like my job's done.

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And that's not true and that's
not a recipe for a sustainable

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relationship.
But I think a lot of men fall

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into that that.
Trope What do you see is our

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most men's biggest hurdle to
making that transition from

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traditional provider to being a
more all-encompassing 1.

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Try to think of my own journey
with it because I felt the same.

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You know, I, I, I really think
it all goes back to emotional

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processing, you know, feeling
heavy feelings, being able to

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communicate those feelings,
being able to have hard

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conversations with your partner
and with your kids without

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blowing up, without shutting
down, without wanting to leave

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the room, without feeling shame.
You know, I was just talking to

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a colleague of mine before we
hopped on here and she was

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making a distinction between
guilt and shame.

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And she was saying how guilt is
a really great indicator.

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If you feel guilty about
something, well, that's OK.

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That can motivate you to make a
change.

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But if you allow that guilt to
turn into shame, and I grew up

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Catholic, so I have that
Catholic guilt all the time.

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But if you allow it to turn into
shame, then it starts to become

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about who you are as a, as a
man, who you are as a person

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starts to become, you know, be
confronting to your identity.

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And I think it's really
important to for yourself to

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make that distinction too, to
notice when you're feeling guilt

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versus when you're feeling
shame.

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And if you're feeling guilty,
we've all done things we're not

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proud of.
We all have showed up in ways

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that we are, we wish we hadn't
as a father, as a man, as a

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husband, as a partner, as a
community member.

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But allow that guilt to motivate
you to make a change instead of

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allowing it to, you know, throw
you into shame.

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And then it's this blame cycle.
It's not my fault to get

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defensive.
And it's a really, it's a really

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hard thing to do, but I think it
takes intentional practice

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daily.
Daily practice, yeah, that the

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best definition that that's
always helped me is guilt is I

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did something wrong.
Shame is I am wrong.

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Yeah, I love that.
Yeah.

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So guilt, guilt without
corrective action, without, you

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know, forgiving yourself,
depending on what it is, forgive

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you, someone else, whatever it
may be.

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But without action, Yeah, all
those energies can settle in and

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become the identity.
You know, I grew up battling

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depression and made multiple
attempts in my life and like, I

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didn't think I had depression.
I thought I was depression and

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that was my natural state and
feeling good was a trick and it

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was a temporary high.
So what inspired you to to want

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to be coaching men, to go into
to service to other men?

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Still going back to my dad when
that happened, when he lost his

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job in the early 90s, I watched
him struggle and he coped

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negative.
He used negative coping

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mechanisms.
He drank a lot.

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He smoked a lot and actually
that continued to the day he

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died.
So he passed away in December

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2021.
And I had lost my job.

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I've never been fired before in
my life from a job.

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So at the age of 40, what is it?
I guess 434243 I was, I was let

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go.
I was fired and that was January

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2021.
So January 2021, I get fired.

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December 2021, my dad passes.
And as you can imagine, I had a

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lot of a lot of deep thinking to
do that year and into 2022.

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And when my dad passed, I really
thought a lot about our

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relationship, about our last
conversation, which was on

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Thanksgiving.
I didn't know it was going to be

281
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our last conversation.
So we talked about snowstorms up

282
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in, I lived up in Syracuse, NY,
so we had a lot of snow.

283
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,400
He always asked about that.
And we talked about sports, you

284
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know, but we didn't talk about
life and death.

285
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We didn't talk about anything
super meaningful.

286
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,920
And that's OK.
Not every conversation has to be

287
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about that.
But I would have liked my last

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conversation with my father to
be a little more deeper.

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So by the time I got to the
hospital, I was about four hour

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drive.
I left around 3:00 in the

291
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morning.
My dad was intubated and within

292
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a matter of three or four days
he had passed.

293
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But I thought about my
relationship with him and I

294
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thought about his life.
And from the from the moment

295
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that he got fired to the moment
that he died, he struggled.

296
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He struggled with emotional
processing.

297
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,080
I found out after he died that
he actually went to a doctor and

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was prescribed medicine for
depression that he refused to

299
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take and said he would deal with
it on his own.

300
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And that's a lot of what a lot
of men do, right?

301
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,320
It's like, I don't need help.
I don't, That's weak, right?

302
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,680
My dad was in the military.
You know, it's this idea that

303
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,960
asking for help is weakness is
such bullshit.

304
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,160
I, I just encourage every man
listening like it's fucking

305
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:53,680
bullshit.
If you don't, I hope I'm OK.

306
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,240
It's OK to curse on the show.
But it, it bothers me so much

307
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,800
that that is a notion that's out
there that men think asking for

308
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help is weakness.
Asking for help is strength.

309
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,480
It is courageous.
It is difficult to speak up on

310
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,599
your own behalf and say, Hey,
I'm struggling and I don't know

311
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,480
what to do about it.
And so I watched my dad suffer.

312
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,040
And I was a kid, but I was, you
know, in the night.

313
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I was like I said, 12 or 13 when
that happened, but, and 40

314
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,000
something when, when he passed.
But I never really had the tools

315
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,760
myself to, to know how to help
him.

316
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,720
I, I tried to get him to quit
smoking and I tried to get him

317
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,960
to stop drinking as much.
But like, it's just, it was just

318
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words and he was going to do
whatever he wanted to do.

319
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,160
But I thought about how many men
must be struggling in silence,

320
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suffering with things they don't
want to share, don't want to

321
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,400
talk about.
And I thought after, and I

322
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,320
worked in construction as a
project manager.

323
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,880
That was the job I got fired
from.

324
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And I saw men in that field,
tough, burly men right there.

325
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They're in construction.
They're working hard all day,

326
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,160
hard on their bodies, but
they're struggling with their

327
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,240
relationships.
They're struggling at home.

328
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,400
They don't know how to connect
with their partner.

329
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,640
And this is supposed to be their
most important relationship.

330
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They're not prioritizing the
things in life that truly mean

331
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you're a success, right?
Making money is great.

332
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,680
I mean, we all want more money.
And money's a great way to, you

333
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,200
know, achieve things and, and do
things in the community and do

334
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,440
things for yourself and your
family.

335
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,080
There's nothing wrong with
making a lot of money.

336
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,280
There's nothing wrong with being
rich, but if that's the only

337
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,960
thing you have and you're not
connecting at home, like you're

338
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,680
not really wealthy.
And so can we move from a place

339
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:45,280
that defines success and defines
rich to mean I have some money

340
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,560
so I don't have to worry, but I
also have rich relationships.

341
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I also know how to connect at
home.

342
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,200
I know how to process my
emotions.

343
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,320
I know how to feel.
I know how to explain my

344
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feelings.
I can have these what started as

345
00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,680
difficult conversations with my
partner.

346
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,840
Now they're not difficult
because I've done them and

347
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that's really what it is.
It's practice and if you want to

348
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,880
get good at something, you got
to practice.

349
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So start today.
What did you do to not follow

350
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your dad's path?
I I I'm sure it must have

351
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,000
crossed your mind when you lost
your job and you thought about

352
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,760
your dad losing his job and he
never really recovered.

353
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,280
It sounded like for a long time
I did exactly what my dad did.

354
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:24,280
I coped with alcohol.
I smoked cigarettes.

355
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,920
I spent a lot of my adult life
up to that point drinking,

356
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,520
drinking my feelings away.
My journey.

357
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,840
I'm not very far along on that
journey.

358
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,320
I but after he passes, when I
think, when everything kind of

359
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,040
changed because I started really
reflecting and thinking about.

360
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,480
I don't want to end up like my
dad, like I love my dad and he

361
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,080
was a he was AI was I would say
he was a good father.

362
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,360
He was a great father when I was
young and I think he turned into

363
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:58,520
a absent father in a way when I
got older.

364
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,400
And to me, I don't want to be
that dad.

365
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,320
I want to be there for my kids
throughout their life.

366
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,800
I want to be present.
I want to I want them to call

367
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,200
me.
And so, you know, what do I need

368
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,360
to change?
How can I move away from that

369
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,600
story and, and write a new
story?

370
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,520
That's those types of questions
were running through my head.

371
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,680
And so after he passed, I was
asking myself all these

372
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,680
questions.
And it wasn't like an overnight

373
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,600
switch.
You know, now I'm not going to

374
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,360
drink.
But I came to that after a

375
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:26,600
while.
So I actually haven't had a

376
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,520
drink since this year at all.
I don't know the day I stopped

377
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,880
because it wasn't something like
I know a lot of people who

378
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,920
struggled alcohol.
They they mark the day that they

379
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,320
quit.
I, I didn't really do that.

380
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,120
I think partly because I was, I
never thought of myself as an

381
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,400
alcoholic.
And, but looking back on it, I

382
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,920
think I was for sure, you know,
certainly drank more when I

383
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,400
before I was married, Sarah, my
wife definitely had been a

384
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,640
positive influence on kind of
limiting some of that, that that

385
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,560
behavior.
But I would fall into those

386
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,280
patterns, those old patterns
easily, especially if we went to

387
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,080
a friend's house.
So, yeah, my journey's been,

388
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,560
it's pretty recent and with all
started with the death of my

389
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,800
father and really reflecting on
our relationship, what he went

390
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,000
through, what I saw him struggle
with, what I wasn't able to help

391
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,240
him come out of.
And I didn't want my son and or

392
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,240
my daughter to have to feel
those feelings and feel like

393
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,760
their father was absent when
they were older.

394
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:33,640
Parenthood and fatherhood
motivate you to become better if

395
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,160
you allow it to.
And it's a lot of learning and

396
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,920
consistent learning.
I would say daily learning.

397
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,240
So sounds like fatherhood is
definitely influenced your

398
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,000
coaching.
I wonder how coaching has

399
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,640
influenced you being a father.
Yeah, my son will pop in

400
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,520
sometimes and he like he'll
he'll tell me.

401
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,600
Dad, you're doing you do such
amazing work.

402
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,600
And it's such a gratifying
feeling that he notices that I'm

403
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,480
I'm helping other men and he,
you know, he asked questions

404
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,080
about it.
My coaching makes me a better

405
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,600
father, I think, because I get
out of my own echo chamber.

406
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:18,640
You know, my experience is mine
and others are are theirs.

407
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,200
And I don't, I, without having
those conversations with other

408
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,200
men, with other dads, I don't
know what they're going through

409
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,200
it.
I think we share a lot of

410
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,120
similarities, a lot of
commonalities of as men, you

411
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,120
know, things we struggle with.
There's always nuance and

412
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:34,080
there's always different
distinctions.

413
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,720
And I always tell my clients,
you know, I meet you where

414
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,840
you're at.
I listen to your story and we

415
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,760
talk about customizing and
tailoring plans to you, to your

416
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,280
experience, to how you're
feeling.

417
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,440
And some of that's very similar.
It, it's, it's something that

418
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:55,000
I'm always in awe of the dads
that do come to me to hear, you

419
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,000
know, their personal struggle
and to encourage them to keep

420
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,400
going.
I think I always say everyone,

421
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,880
men, women, doesn't matter, all
genders.

422
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,600
People want to feel seen.
They want to feel heard.

423
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,960
They want hope.
And that's what I feel like I

424
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,080
give to my clients.
It's not, it's not.

425
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,520
Yeah, sure, I give them
practical tools and tips and all

426
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,560
that, and that's great.
But really what I'm providing

427
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,040
them is that there's someone out
there that cares enough about

428
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:28,680
them and their success that is
willing to to go walk with them,

429
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,400
you know?
What are some, you know, simple,

430
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,040
achievable first steps that that
you could recommend a man who's

431
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,560
wanting that deeper connection
with with children or a a

432
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,640
partner, but he's he's just
stuck in himself, stuck in those

433
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,360
that he's in that narrow man
box, that definition.

434
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,320
What's the first step to kind of
break that down?

435
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,760
I think the first thing I would
recommend is, is finding out

436
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,160
your tendencies, you know, the
judgement that leads to this

437
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,840
shame and blame cycle, because I
think that's a lot of what we're

438
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,000
stuck in here is like, what is
your identity?

439
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,720
Who do you want to become?
And starting really simple with,

440
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,960
you know, literally writing it
down.

441
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,840
I know like for me, like I had
had these thoughts I've had,

442
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,440
I've had some deep conversations
over the years with friends and,

443
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,680
and colleagues and this and
that.

444
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:28,000
I never spent time before
2021-2022 reflecting enough and

445
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,880
having conversations with
myself, you know, as and I think

446
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,920
journaling really opens it up.
Like writing something down is

447
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,160
super powerful.
Words have a lot of weight and

448
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,520
there's no rules.
No, nobody has to read this.

449
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,000
You, you can just write about
anything, whatever you're

450
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,560
feeling.
And it's like, this is how we

451
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,720
start to build the muscle of
emotional resilience is getting

452
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,720
comfortable talking about how
we're feeling, even if it's not

453
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,520
with our partner right away.
The other thing I would

454
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,320
recommend is there's a, there's
a great program called Positive

455
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,520
Intelligence.
It's by Shahzad Shameen.

456
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,360
He's a Harvard professor, if
that means anything to you.

457
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,240
I don't really care about, you
know, that sort of thing.

458
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,000
But I do care about how powerful
his program is.

459
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,560
What positive intelligence did
for me is it allowed me to see

460
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,240
my judge and my sabotage, my
saboteurs, he calls them.

461
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,520
And this is a great way to
identify kind of like your

462
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,440
patterns, like, where is it
coming from?

463
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,960
We all have a judge in our head.
We all have an inner critic, if

464
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,920
you will.
And what are they telling you?

465
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,920
What stories are they telling
you about yourself?

466
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,640
And how can you take that?
And now rewrite that story to be

467
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,200
positive.
And I don't, and I'm not toxic

468
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,560
positivity, but we tell
ourselves a lot of negative shit

469
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,600
about ourselves and as a general
generalization.

470
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,080
And So what can you do today to
stop doing that?

471
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,120
Because those stories that
you're telling yourself most

472
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:59,680
likely aren't true.
Most likely they are not true.

473
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,880
And if you're telling yourself
that you suck at this, that

474
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,120
you're not good enough, that
you're not man enough, that you

475
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,720
don't fit into this manly
definition that someone else

476
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,680
decided it had to be for you,
and you're trying to meet

477
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,080
expectations of others.
Like what are your expectations

478
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,800
of yourself?
What standards do you want to

479
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,000
hold?
And how can you if if there if

480
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,880
your standards are low for
yourself, how can you raise

481
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,320
those standards?
If your standards are are good,

482
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,560
but you aren't meeting them,
Like how can you meet your

483
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,320
standards?
But first you got to know what

484
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,760
those are.
And if you haven't reflected in,

485
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,240
in a long time, like I hadn't,
like I didn't even really know

486
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,680
what did that look like.
And so start with self

487
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,000
reflection.
And then I would recommend going

488
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,680
to positive intelligence.
I think it's, I'm, I'm not sure,

489
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,320
but I think it's
positiveintelligence.com.

490
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,800
You can actually take a free
self-assessment and it'll spit

491
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,160
out a report.
They put you on their e-mail

492
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,360
list, but you can just opt out
of that.

493
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,240
And it's a great way to kind of
just see what that report says

494
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,680
about like your tendencies, what
your comments saboteurs are.

495
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,600
So are you a people pleaser, for
example, are you trying to think

496
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,400
of another one like restless all
the time, you know, and then and

497
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,360
then it's then you start to say,
OK, I am restless all the time.

498
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,320
Why am I restless?
Why do I feel the need to be

499
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,920
busy?
Why can't I just sit and sit

500
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,000
with myself and be calm?
That was me, You know, I, I have

501
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,680
a hard time sitting still.
And so I think it's important to

502
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,840
rest.
But as a, as a man, we want to

503
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,000
be busy.
We want to be productive.

504
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,400
We have this idea in society to
be productive all the time.

505
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,480
Well, rest is productive.
Yeah, there, there there's an

506
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,440
inner world that men are
responsible for building as

507
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,560
well.
So it's not just go build that

508
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,200
over go go build builds a
pyramids, go build the Taj Mahal

509
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,160
for your.
They'll live every life.

510
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,280
It's not, it's not just that,
but yeah, I I just want to

511
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,280
circle back to, to journaling a
little bit because journaling is

512
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,840
something that was recommended
to me by therapist for at least

513
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,800
10 years before I dared try it.
And I had this like, oh, I'm not

514
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,280
going to get my alumni little
Princess diary thing.

515
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,920
It just seems so feminine is so
little girly to me.

516
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,800
But I finally just started and I
felt benefits, like I felt

517
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,120
better.
And for me, my worst

518
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:19,800
conversations happen in my head
if I write the things down.

519
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,400
Oh, the, the bad thoughts have
less weight.

520
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,080
The good thoughts have room to
breathe and I have now I journal

521
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,880
on a daily basis.
It might be 20 years and one

522
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,720
little tip I carry around the
yellow pad and I jot down wins,

523
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,280
losses, deep thoughts for me to
journal about later.

524
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,200
But some days my journaling is
just the sticky pad of what what

525
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,120
the highlights of the day.
So make your own rules, but do

526
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,800
something.
Just get out of that roommate

527
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,800
and chasing your old tail with
your shitty thoughts.

528
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,120
And one thing I've, I took a
positive psychology program with

529
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,200
some Harvard professors.
So I, I have an affinity for

530
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,400
Harvard professors.
There you go.

531
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,240
But one thing was, yeah, all
that negative self talk that we

532
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,480
all do, we're lying to
ourselves.

533
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,280
But as you said, so when you're
aware of it, choose better lies.

534
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,600
I'm great at this.
I can figure this out.

535
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,160
I'm a hell of a man, all right?
If you're going to, if you're

536
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,360
going to lie to yourself, you
might as well tell yourself some

537
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,240
positive, uplifting lies and
just see how that feels. 100

538
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,600
percent, 100%.
And it's, and it's OK, it's OK

539
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,520
to strive to be better, right?
Like we as I think that's a

540
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,920
pretty common human thing that
we all want to be the best

541
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,400
version of ourselves.
And when we're not the best

542
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,280
version of ourselves, we know
it, even if, even if we lie to

543
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,840
ourselves.
But I think it's important to

544
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,280
tell yourself the positive talk
to to boost yourself up.

545
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,440
If you're not able to say, you
know, I'm a hell of a man, say

546
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,720
like, I want to be a hell of a
man, I'm going to do XYZ today

547
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,360
to prove that to myself.
And if you don't hit it today,

548
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,520
that's OK.
Like we're we're not perfect.

549
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,320
This is, you know, my coaching.
We talked progress over

550
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,280
perfection.
We got to get away from this

551
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,920
idea that we got to show up and
be a brilliant every single day

552
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,160
and every moment and be in
control and have certainty about

553
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,560
everything in our lives.
Life is uncertain.

554
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,240
We don't know if we'll be here
tomorrow.

555
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,920
We are blessed to be here today.
How can we make it the best we

556
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,600
can?
And if we fail, and I say fail,

557
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,400
not truly meaning fail, but if
we miss right, then how can we

558
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,800
show up tomorrow?
So have that.

559
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,840
So when you talk about
journaling, have AI like to have

560
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,560
a reflection in the morning to
to set intentions for my day.

561
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,440
And then I like to have a
reflection at night to say, Hey,

562
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,920
did I hit do I was I the man I
wanted to be today?

563
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,040
And where did I miss?
And not in a way to shame myself

564
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,040
or guilt myself, which would
have been my old version, right?

565
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,720
Like I would have definitely
gone down that spiral and

566
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,720
probably gone to the bar and had
five drinks and forgotten about

567
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,600
it.
Current, current Fred is what

568
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,520
did I miss?
And you know, what can I do

569
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,880
better tomorrow?
And what can I, what am I proud

570
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,440
of?
You know, because there's always

571
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,040
something you can find to be
proud of.

572
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,760
And it can be small, but boost
yourself up.

573
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,360
It's life isn't easy.
It's not, it's not anal.

574
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,880
And and So what are you doing?
That's, that's making yourself

575
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,240
proud and how are you showing up
as a father, as a partner, as a

576
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,960
community member, as a friend?
And guess what, if you're not

577
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,520
sure, that's OK too.
But I have some tips for that.

578
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,440
Like for example, pick up the
phone, call somebody you love.

579
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,000
It's very simple to do things
that you can be proud of.

580
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,080
We, we'd like to think like,
think that something has to be

581
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,720
grand and like this big
achievement.

582
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,000
We, we, we made $300,000 this
year.

583
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,880
We, you know, won this award.
Yeah, All that's amazing.

584
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,680
But what about those little
things?

585
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,320
I would say to my couples, the,
the little things are the big

586
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,160
things.
You know, the resentment that

587
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,840
builds in in relationships is
often not about, I mean, of

588
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,800
course, you know, a major event
like a cheating incident is a

589
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,720
big deal.
But most of the couples, the

590
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,960
resentment that they build
builds over time.

591
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,680
And it's small fractures.
It's tiny things that they

592
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,040
didn't address, that they didn't
talk about, that they didn't

593
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,520
communicate fully about both
partners, not just men.

594
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,640
You know, women are guilty as
well of not communicating the

595
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,080
things that bother them because
they're afraid that it's going

596
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,800
to lead to judgement from their
partner.

597
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,680
And so that trust needs to be
there first of all, to have

598
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,080
those hard conversations.
Practice, get in the habit of

599
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,440
coming to each other with the
things that are tiny so that

600
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,800
they don't, you know, I'm
construction brain like a tiny

601
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,320
fracture in a foundation might
not look like a big deal right

602
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,640
away, but over time that's going
to start to make your foundation

603
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,200
crumble.
And that's what we're trying to

604
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,240
avoid here.
I think I got this from Gay

605
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,640
Hendrix, but your willingness to
have an uncomfortable

606
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,320
conversation for a few minutes
can eliminate an uncomfortable

607
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,160
life for years and years.
So yeah, it's worth taking care

608
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,800
of those those little things.
Well, I say that your your, your

609
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,160
discomfort zone is your growth
zone.

610
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,960
And so if you want your
relationship to evolve and grow,

611
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,640
which I think most of us do, we
don't look, you know, we don't

612
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,240
have that mindset maybe in our
heads, but we should.

613
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,120
It's like you're both human.
So you are evolving, whether you

614
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,440
like it or not, that's
happening.

615
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,200
And people change in
relationships.

616
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,720
So, you know, this idea of going
backwards and like, oh, the

617
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,920
honeymoon period was amazing.
But now it's so hard.

618
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,400
Like, yeah, relationships don't
get easier, you get better.

619
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,120
That's one of the things I
always say relationships don't

620
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,920
get easier.
You get better.

621
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,760
And for seven, I've been married
10 years now.

622
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,440
For seven years I wasn't.
I would say I probably wasn't

623
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,200
getting better.
Honestly, I might have been

624
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,640
getting worse because I wasn't
focused on the right things.

625
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,520
I was focused on my job.
I was trying to be an amazing

626
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,000
project manager, but I wasn't
really trying, at least not

627
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,760
consciously, to be an amazing
husband or an amazing father.

628
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,840
I think I wanted those things.
I think I would say that out

629
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,840
loud at that time, but I don't
think I was choosing daily

630
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,200
actions and words that were
getting me to that place.

631
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,520
And so saying, saying your wants
and not doing anything about it

632
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,200
is just wishing.
And wishing isn't a recipe for

633
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,120
success.
So if you want to be an amazing

634
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,360
husband, if you want to be an
amazing partner, if you want to

635
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,719
be an amazing father, you need
to wake up every day and ask

636
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,880
yourself that question.
What do I need to do today to be

637
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,199
that, to embody that?
And I'm telling you right now,

638
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,000
you have to do things.
It's not easy, like some of this

639
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,360
stuff's not easy like having
hard conversations, but it

640
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,000
becomes easier the more you do
it.

641
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,560
And so allow yourself that
opportunity to grow and have

642
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,840
that space to become the best
version of yourself, which by

643
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,400
the way, will change over time.
So it's it's a choice.

644
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,920
Yeah, it's not static, right?
Yeah.

645
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,239
And the progress only happens
via our actions.

646
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,480
So again, the drilling is just
the starting point.

647
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,760
You'll get inspired ideas,
you'll do things.

648
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,000
But yeah.
And, and I find the more, the

649
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,040
more I allow my life to unfold
with joy, the more joy there is,

650
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,160
the more I'm like, the more I
want to do, the more that wants

651
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,160
to be done to me, the more
opportunities, synchronicities,

652
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,440
all that stuff starts going when
you when you, when I create my

653
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,640
own momentum going forward.
Yeah, yeah, Momentum, 100%.

654
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,960
That is it.
That is, that's a great term

655
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,040
because that's what you're doing
when you choose one daily

656
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,840
action, like journaling, right?
You're creating that first step

657
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,520
of momentum.
And then from there, you choose

658
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,960
to show up differently in a
conversation that would have

659
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,160
been hard a week ago or a year
ago.

660
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:33,640
And so you have that
conversation, so there's another

661
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,760
momentum, and that's something
you can be proud of at the end

662
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,440
of the night.
And so you're like, yeah, I was

663
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,720
proud of that.
I'm going to do it again.

664
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,080
So you we've talked about pride
a lot and there's a common

665
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,680
question I ask all my guests.
Fred, what are you most proud

666
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,400
of?
I, there's, there's a lot, but I

667
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,880
think what comes to mind is, is
not having a drop of alcohol in

668
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,800
over a year or well, again, I
don't know the exact date, but

669
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:02,000
it's been close to a year now.
I think in the past when, and

670
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,840
I've had conversations with a
buddy of mine, we used to go

671
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,640
drinking together all the time.
And I, I was talking to him

672
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,440
about it, you know, I, him and I
both had this idea that what's

673
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,000
the point of having a drink?
Like, what's the point of having

674
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,320
one drink, right?
It's like this idea, like I want

675
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,360
to feel buzzed.
I want to, I want to like, if

676
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,600
I'm going to have the extra
calories and I might as well

677
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,560
have 3 or 4 because I want to
have that feeling of whatever

678
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,760
you want to call it, euphoria or
ignorance, whatever, whatever

679
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,200
frame you want to put on it,
right?

680
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,440
And this isn't a judgement for
people who drink alcohol at all.

681
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,880
I think for some people, they're
able to drink responsibly.

682
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,360
For me, especially coming from,
you know, my model, my father,

683
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:47,320
you know, I was never able to
drink in a way that was, if you

684
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,280
want to call it responsible, I
just wasn't.

685
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,400
And so I knew I needed to make a
pretty big change.

686
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,320
And at first it was like I said,
it wasn't this idea that I was

687
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,360
never going to drink.
And I was, I was kind of, I was

688
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,360
training for a marathon.
I was like, well, that's not

689
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:00,840
going to serve me well in the
race.

690
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,280
So I was up for a little bit of
time here.

691
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,520
I'm just not going to have a
drink.

692
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,720
And then it had been like 3
months and I said to Sarah, I

693
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,640
said, hey, Dave, like, you know,
I haven't had alcohol this

694
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,520
entire year because I started
training in January.

695
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,880
And I said I kind of feel good.
Like I feel like I have clarity.

696
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,200
I feel like I feel stronger
mentally, physically.

697
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,200
And I don't think I want it.
And you know her, not her.

698
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,960
And I would share a glass of
wine here and there.

699
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,400
I was like, I don't think I'm
going to join you in like

700
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,000
drinking anymore.
Like I'll have non alcoholic

701
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,880
drinks, you know, if I go out.
And so, yeah, I think I'm most

702
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,120
proud of being able to stick
with that because I think when

703
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,600
anyone makes a decision,
especially one that's to give up

704
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,400
a habit that they've been doing
their whole adult life, which

705
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,320
drinking was for me.
And I started, I started when I

706
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,640
would go see the Grateful Dead
with my oldest brother when I

707
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,080
was like 16 years old.
He let me have beer, you know,

708
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:02,720
because mom and dad weren't
around.

709
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,960
But, you know, looking back on
it, yeah, that was fun, Fun

710
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,040
brother.
He took care of me.

711
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,640
He made sure I didn't know
nothing bad happened to me.

712
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:10,720
All that.
And we had a good time at the

713
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:14,000
shows.
But yeah, that's a pretty bad

714
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,640
habit to start when you're a
teenager and then a pretty hard

715
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,040
habit to quit through adulthood
when you're trying to quote UN

716
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,280
quote, fit in and you feel like,
you know, bars are great places

717
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,080
to, to.
I mean, in theory, I don't agree

718
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,880
with this now, but I think in in
the past, I was like, oh, women

719
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,120
hang out at bars.
Like I can pick up chicks at the

720
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,280
bar, right?
I was never the guy to pick up

721
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,000
chicks at the bar, but that was
my thought process.

722
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,600
And then but also that's where
men hang out and that's where

723
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,560
you can, you know, have close
friendships and talk about

724
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,600
sports and the things that we
talked about.

725
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,640
And in my older years, my wise
years, you know, now I'm

726
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,760
thinking like you can meet
better.

727
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,840
You can have better relations
outside of that situation.

728
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,080
You can meet people outside of
those those locations.

729
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,400
Like the bar is not the only
place that exists on the planet,

730
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,000
but for me it was for a long
time.

731
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,880
It's like, well, if I want to
meet people, that's where I go,

732
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,480
you know?
But you don't have to choose

733
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,160
that.
You can go to the Y, you can go

734
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,440
to the gym, you can go to lots
of different places and start up

735
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,520
a conversation.
Yeah, I, so I, I was a heavy

736
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:28,280
drinker probably started like 13
or 14 for me and and I always

737
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,400
knew I was conscious.
I was aware that I drink to

738
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,000
change my mood, to change my
emotions to, to sometimes I

739
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,640
drink to stop crying, sometimes
I drink.

740
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,840
So I actually, yeah, I used to
really as a teenager, I would

741
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,400
get drunk so that I could cry.
I just knew something was

742
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,160
bugging me and I couldn't do it
sober for some sort of block

743
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,480
ahead, whatever it was.
But anyway, as I created the

744
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,880
life that I'm living and a life
that I love, I'm like, why am I

745
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,400
drinking?
And and so I haven't drank.

746
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,840
And it'll be, it's coming up on
6 years.

747
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,760
I don't know the exact day
either, because we went there to

748
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,800
like, I'm not interested.
And then I made it through COVID

749
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:01,960
without just saying fuck it, I'm
getting drunk.

750
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,320
So like well.
If I could do that, then I could

751
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:05,840
do anything.
I'll ever pick up a drink again.

752
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,680
Yeah, yeah, that's really
unwelling for me.

753
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,400
But yeah.
And everything you're saying

754
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:17,760
clarity, health, just you don't
know what drinking most of your

755
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,920
life does until you stop and you
need like and I think you need

756
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,480
like months to have that clarity
and to to get it all out of your

757
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,120
system.
Everything.

758
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,320
But but again, you know, if if
you're if you're happy and you

759
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,320
know it and then you can go out
and have drinks.

760
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,800
Great.
But it for me, it's all about I

761
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,120
know why you doing it.
Is it bringing you joy?

762
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,040
Is it benefiting your life or
not right?

763
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,360
Does it help you be of service
somehow?

764
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,720
Then then great, but right.
Tell me about your podcast.

765
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,080
Dad's interrupted.
Yeah, I started a podcast called

766
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,120
Dad's Interrupted It back in
June, I think was the first

767
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:55,240
episode, you know, this year we
talked about, we talked about

768
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:56,800
the interruptions that Dad's
face.

769
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,720
And really it's it's similar to
the interruptions that men face,

770
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:01,400
right?
It's this, it's the negative

771
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,920
self talk.
Yeah.

772
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,240
We're not talking literal
interruptions.

773
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:05,520
My kids interrupt me all the
time.

774
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,280
But we're talking about, you
know, more figuratively, you

775
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,440
know, mental health issues,
things that men struggle with

776
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,840
that they don't talk about.
Very similar to, to the, you

777
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,080
know, the, the context of your,
your show here.

778
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,880
It's like, let's let's talk man
to man, dad to dad about what we

779
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,000
struggle with his dads.
And you know what, what

780
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,720
similarities we have, what
differences we have, what we do

781
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:33,520
about those things and how can
we become better dads?

782
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,360
How can we inspire dads that are
listening to become better dads?

783
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:42,240
How can we elevate the role of
father so that it's part of your

784
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,520
identity, not your whole
identity?

785
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,200
Because I think it's super
important to make that

786
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,680
distinction, right?
I think it's easy to, it's easy

787
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,440
to, to, because being a dad is
difficult.

788
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,640
It's easy to say, I'm not going
to be a great dad because it's

789
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,800
too hard.
And it's also easy to say all I

790
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,320
am is a dad, and I'm really
great at being a dad.

791
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,160
But like, what about a partner?
What about a community member?

792
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,200
What about a friend?
Like, what about for yourself?

793
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,560
Are you showing up in the ways
that you need to for all of

794
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,800
those identities that you have?
And if you're not like, let's

795
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,680
talk about that, let's have
these hard conversations.

796
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:25,360
I'm not a dad, which is why I do
love talking to fathers and

797
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,000
especially talking to fathers
that are helping other men be

798
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,520
better fathers and giving them
that space.

799
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,320
I think I have one friend that
has ever admitted to me that he

800
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:37,920
he wishes he had never became a
dad.

801
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,080
And he and and I know he kept, I
know he carried that for years

802
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:47,120
until he voiced it to me.
And but he's but he's been a

803
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,520
great dad.
He has a good self of the

804
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,760
family, but he was like early
on, like I don't think I like

805
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,600
this, like you just didn't have
that moment of my child.

806
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:56,560
Wow.
He just like.

807
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,200
That never hit me.
Well, Andy, Andy, I became a dad

808
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,000
overnight because my wife had my
daughter.

809
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,920
I call her my daughter, but
she's my stepdaughter.

810
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,520
So she's 17.
I started raising her when she

811
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,800
was 5.
But when I started dating Sarah,

812
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,520
that was a big decision for me.
I actually for a long time said

813
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,040
I was never going to have kids.
And my reasonings around that

814
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,480
were more, at least I told
myself they were more around the

815
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,240
world that we live in.
And you know, you look around,

816
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:24,760
there's danger everywhere,
there's there's struggle,

817
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,000
there's pain.
And I was like, I don't want to

818
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,640
bring a human into this, into
this world.

819
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,040
Like it's hard to watch the
atrocities that are happening

820
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,600
all across the globe and think,
hey, you know what?

821
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,720
I want to do another human to
experience this.

822
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,240
And that was my outlook for a
long time.

823
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,800
You know, obviously not seeing
the beauty of life and not

824
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,280
seeing the beauty that's around
me and not noticing all the good

825
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,960
that's here.
And it's a really easy thing to

826
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,680
do, right?
It's why we turned to watch a

827
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,400
car accident when we're driving.
It's because we, you know, it's

828
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,040
like this gruesome, potentially
like negative thing.

829
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,360
And we're all like, what's going
on over there, right?

830
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,480
That's why the news is, you
know, 25 minutes of negative

831
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,840
bullshit and then one minute of
a positive story.

832
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,480
And so because that's how we're
kind of trained in a way.

833
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,000
Like it's hard to see the beauty
unless you were looking for it,

834
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,160
unless you're allowing space for
that, unless you're convincing

835
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,960
yourself, hey, is this world
worth living in?

836
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,560
And it's a tough question to
answer.

837
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:23,880
And you got to answer that for
yourself.

838
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,040
But there's beauty.
And I would encourage you to

839
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,560
notice the beauty that's around
you because it's guaranteed.

840
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,720
It's there.
And, but but to, to get back to

841
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:36,840
being a dad overnight, I made
that choice like I was with

842
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,200
Sarah.
I loved her, we fell in love.

843
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,560
I knew that making a decision to
stay with her meant I was going

844
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,120
to be a father literally
overnight.

845
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,600
And that was a big decision for
me.

846
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,960
I don't regret it.
It has been difficult.

847
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,840
My daughter is neurodivergent.
He struggles with anxiety, she

848
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,200
struggles with depression, she
struggles with school.

849
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,720
You know, teenager doesn't help
because of all the changes that

850
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:08,080
teenagers go through.
And so every day is a challenge.

851
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,560
But it's taught me to be a
better man.

852
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,800
It's taught me to show up better
for myself.

853
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,560
It's taught me to that that kids
are here, You know, if you are a

854
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:22,200
dad, I see parenting as not so
much what I can teach my kids,

855
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:28,240
but how I can show them what a
good man is and then also what

856
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:31,760
can they teach me?
And so it's kind of a good

857
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,120
balance there.
And obviously you do teach your

858
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,120
kids some things, but you can be
overbearing with that.

859
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,600
And I've been that in the past
of trying to always teach a

860
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,240
lesson, always teach something.
And then they, you know, your

861
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:48,480
kids are going to tell you like
dad, like stop, like you can

862
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,360
just, you can just hang out and
like be cool, right?

863
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,040
And what they mean is like, you
don't always have to be teaching

864
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,920
me something.
Kids are going to learn their

865
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,560
lessons sometimes from you, but
mostly from watching you, not so

866
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,200
much from listening to you.
And like, to your point earlier,

867
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,680
Andy, it's the actions that you
take more so than the words.

868
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,400
Certainly the words matter, but
the actions matter more in my

869
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,040
opinion.
Yep, my opinion too.

870
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,600
And I am going to go out on a
limb and say life is worth

871
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,640
living for everybody.
Then I do not believe there are

872
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,480
any exceptions.
And especially if you're at a

873
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,160
good enough place that you're
listening to a podcast somewhere

874
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,080
you have the time and the
freedom to do that, then yeah,

875
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,000
your life is definitely worth
living.

876
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,000
If you don't like every part of
it, take some responsibility,

877
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,040
make some changes.
It's, it's up to you.

878
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,920
We were, we are all driving each
of our ships of, of life here.

879
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,000
I used to avoid responsibility
because I thought it meant

880
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,840
blame.
But when you take

881
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,840
responsibility, you can then
make changes, right?

882
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,680
You can.
You can make course corrections

883
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,840
to continue that same, that
same.

884
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,640
Yeah, I love that.
But yeah, so, so Fred, what's

885
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,400
the best place people can go to
find out everything that you're

886
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,680
up to and connect with you
further?

887
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,360
Yeah, if it, if it calls to you,
check out my website,

888
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,440
seat@thetablecoaching.com.
That's where you can download

889
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,440
the free guide how to build
emotional resilience.

890
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,080
I think it's super powerful.
I'd love to hear your thoughts

891
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,000
on it.
If it helps you, if it's, if you

892
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,720
found it to be shit, like, feel
free to, to e-mail me after you

893
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:18,280
download it.
But I, I wrote it so that men

894
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,680
can start to build that
emotional resilience that they

895
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,920
so desperately, a lot of them
need and never have been taught.

896
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,760
And so I, I hope coming from
another man who truly cares

897
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:33,760
about you, you know, that is
that my heart is in, in the

898
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,960
place where, you know, to your
point earlier asking me, you

899
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,280
know, why did I start this?
So I started it for my dad, you

900
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,200
know, and I realized like the
true deep meaning of why I

901
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,920
started it was because I
couldn't save my dad.

902
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:53,240
But now I'm trying to quote UN
quote, save other men, you know,

903
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:55,560
And when I say save it, I mean
you need to be fixed.

904
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,000
I mean that you need you need to
learn some tools and he needs to

905
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,920
learn some strategy and he needs
to know that somebody cares

906
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,720
about you, that other men care
about you.

907
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,720
And so check out my website.
If it calls to you, schedule an

908
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:09,280
appointment, We can chat, see if
we're a fit.

909
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,520
And I'm on LinkedIn every day.
I'm on Instagram at Frederick

910
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,040
van Ripper.
I'm on LinkedIn.

911
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,200
It's you just type in my name,
Frederick Van Ripper and find me

912
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,360
there.
Love to hear from you, even if

913
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,040
it's not necessarily to engage
in coaching, just share a story,

914
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,000
you know, say hi.
Let me know what resonated on

915
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,400
this episode.
Let me know what question you

916
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,600
have.
You don't have to make this

917
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,320
transactional.
You know, again, I'm I'm here to

918
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,240
serve and I want to help in any
way I can.

919
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:42,160
And if that means that we engage
in a coaching engagement, that's

920
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,560
that's wonderful, but it doesn't
have to be that awesome.

921
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:46,840
Well.
Thanks for being here today,

922
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,360
Fred.
Thanks for everyone listening to

923
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,760
us.
Please visit realmenfeel.org for

924
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,920
the blog post for this episode.
We'll have links to all the

925
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,160
resources mentioned, all the
programs that Fred shared, all

926
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,440
the things that have helped him,
all the ways to need to help

927
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,400
yourself and ways to reach out,
connect with him.

928
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,240
Wherever you're discovering real
men feel, please subscribe,

929
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,600
follow, give a like, share this
with somebody that would get

930
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,000
benefit from it.
Post a review or comment and

931
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,720
until next time, be good to
yourself.