Redefining Strength Emotional Fitness and Vulnerability

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And I just remember thinking to
myself and that Norman, once

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more, I do not want anybody to
feel like what I feel like right

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now because what I felt when
then was embarrassment and

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shame.
We all know I think it's men to

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feel.
And I've read about this

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emotional fitness shame.
It is, I think, the cruelest

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emotion of all the emotions.
And I just survived on it.

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, Andy Grant.
Today my guest is Sean Zetland,

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a Master Fitness trainer,
author, motivational speaker,

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and continuing education
provider with the National

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Academy of Sports Medicine.
Sean has spent more than two

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decades helping people transform
their health and performance,

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and he's a six time Best of
Brooklyn winner for Best

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Personal Trainer.
Sean is also the author of

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Emotional Fitness, and through
that work, he's helping redefine

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strength by blending physical
training, emotional awareness,

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authenticity, and resilience.
He describes emotional fitness

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training as learning to empower
yourself emotionally through

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exercise.
Let's do it.

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Hello Sean, and welcome to Real
Men Feel.

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When men first hear the phrase
emotional fitness, what do you

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mean by it, and what's the most
common expectation of what it

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means?
Oh, great question.

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I what I mean by it is
empowering your body through

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emotions.
I think when men first hear it,

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the word emotions, I think for
most men that the stereotype

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makes them feel very
uncomfortable.

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The uncomfortable part about
feeling their feelings.

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And for me, you know, my journey
is all about not hiding from

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your feelings, but facing your
feelings because that's where

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the root is, that's where the
work is.

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And that could be very scary,
whether we're talking about

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anxiety or depression or just
stresses, childhood trauma,

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etcetera.
But the idea to release the

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emotions that are stored in our
body through fitness for me

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personally and the men that I
work with, has been absolutely

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so rewarding.
Yeah, when I first heard it, I

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thought it was a metaphor.
But you're.

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Truly think access your emotions
via physical exercise.

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Yes, yes, cool.
And so I know you've spent

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decades as a personal trainer.
Yeah.

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Have you always had this
connection between physical and

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emotional?
So I think it was always there

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subconsciously.
So I was a kid picked last in

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gym class.
I've been on book tour last year

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and been telling everybody my
horror stories and camp and

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growing up and just how the kids
were very bullish to me and how

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I really wanted to be good at
sports by his warm club feet.

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I was born with really horrible
gross motor skills and that

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prevented me from really feeling
wanted.

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It felt, it felt growing up that
I just was sort of an outcast or

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any even a freak where I wanted
to be with my peers.

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I wanted to be accepted by my
peers.

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And I think physically,
especially as a boy, when you

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can't do the same things that
maybe your peers are doing, you

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question your you stop and you
say, what is wrong with me and

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why is this my path?
And so it wasn't really until

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1314 years old, I sort of rode
into my body.

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I worked really, really hard and
I sort of started to understand.

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I think this was all
subconscious though, the

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connection between the emotion,
the physical.

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Because the first time I ever
worked out was my dad, who was a

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professional bodybuilder.
And I remember laughing and he

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was so worried, like, you know,
we're doing a bench press.

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And he said, you know, you don't
hurt yourself.

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And I, it was the first time my
life at 14, I was physically

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good at something.
And that feeling I just wanted

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to duplicate for everyone else,
especially for those who

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struggled with fitness.
What does being a strong man

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mean to you now?
And perhaps, what did it mean at

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13 and 14?
Great question.

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A strong man means now to me
where I can face childhood

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demons.
I can face, you know, sort of

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any pains that I went through
and befriend them.

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That's number one.
I, I used to, you know, go back

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and especially when I moved to
New York and no one knew my

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origin story.
And I really grew into my body

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physically and was a different
version of myself, a version of

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myself that was accepted and
beloved.

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And people didn't really know
anything about me.

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Of course, my childhood, with
the exception of my brother at

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the time when I moved to New
York.

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But I really, I didn't want to
accept that little boy.

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That was really hard for me.
I, I was being probably crueler

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to him.
And I write about this emotional

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fitness and I think some of the
bullies and the counselors and

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the teachers and everything else
that he had to endure growing up

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in my childhood, I was the one
who was so still judging him

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silently.
I was the one who was still

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struggling with him, not
accepting him, treating him like

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he was just an awful, awful
person and not worthy of any

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unconditional love.
And so now when I think about

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being a strong man, I think
about that was the opposite.

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I mean, I, I'm, I'm so proud of
him.

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I'm, I'm so I, I, I'm enamored
by him, his strength, his will.

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He had many traumas.
I mean, I had, and I read about

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this in the book and I'm very
transparent about Amy, where he

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had everything from again,
physical abuse, sexual abuse,

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couldn't kick a ball.
I mean, I, I, I think about him

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in general and he survived.
He brought me here.

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Maybe he's not my authentic
self.

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I mean, he was obviously when I
was first born, he went through

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all that trauma.
But maybe as your word,

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authentic is a great is great
shirt that you're wearing.

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But maybe he he wasn't as
confident and had it all

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together as Sean does now.
But the difference for me when

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it comes to strength is really
extending my harm to him and

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saying to him, thank you for
bringing me here because Big

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Sean and little Sean are equally
one and the same.

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And so that that for me right
now.

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And I think, you know, going
back to it, when I was strong

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then to answer your question
where I had all this compiled

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trauma, it was I just need to
survive.

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I mean, and I, and as a kid, I
mean, this is before working

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with my therapist or working
with, you know, different people

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who had helped me and guided me,
former mentors.

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That kid was just trying to
survive.

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So I think about man, he, he
survived.

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And more importantly, I mean, I
think you're going to agree with

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this.
He was kind as far as I know

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intentionally.
I never hurt anybody on my

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journey.
And I, I say this a lot where

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you know, the hero and you know,
for any show you're watching or

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any comic book you may love,
there's always a hero.

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Of course, there's always a
villain.

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And for me, early on, I realized
if I'm really am going to be a

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hero to myself, and I knew early
on I had to be, if I'm going to

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be the hero of my own story, as
cliche as it sounds.

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Well, number one, I want to be
kind to everybody else, Andy.

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I don't want to hurt anybody
along the way because that's

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what a villain does, right?
Their origins are always the

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same, right?
Whether it's, you know, Batman

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versus Joker or Superman versus
Lex Luthor.

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Where are the parents?
Where is the family?

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You know, we, they all have
trauma.

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Hero has plenty of trauma, but
again, the difference is he's

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trying to help other people.
Like how I felt during that Kid

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Ball story that I mentioned
briefly.

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I didn't want anybody else to
suffer.

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That has always been my goal.
I don't want people to feel the

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way I feel.
I want it to be the opposite

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though.
That little boy will survive.

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He'll survive, you know?
I'll be a shy kid, He'll be shy,

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you know, which is now I realize
it's not a negative thing.

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That's just the way to survive
and he'll be quiet, but he's not

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going to intentionally bully or
hurt others even though he was

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bullied.
So talked about just wanting to

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survive a lot, or perhaps not
just wanting to, but that's how

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you were living in just survival
mode.

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Was there one particular point
or was it a lot of varying

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circumstances that that got you
to shift to?

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I'm worthy of more than just
surviving.

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It's a great question.
So I took you to junior year of

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high school and a lot of my
friends were going out for the

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School Musical.
And I was, you know, quiet in

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class.
I was, you know, I wouldn't say

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I was like an A student, but I
was a good student and didn't

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make waves, never had attention.
And I was watching, you know, my

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peers.
And I thought, that's something

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I want to do.
I want to prove that I could do

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something so grandiose, so big,
so outside my comfort level.

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And of course, it helped that my
friends were doing it and

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watching them do it gave me
confidence that I could do it.

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My sister was a former actress
and she did the high school

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plays even though she was older
than me.

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But I wanted to do something to
really prove to myself that I

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could do something so grandiose
and out of the spectrum that

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anything I could really, even
with Adam about myself.

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And so, Long story short, I'm
proud to tell you I'd, I, little

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Sean got up there and I had the
really I, I did 3 shows in high

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school.
I was the lead in all three

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shows.
People told me I stole the show

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and brought the house down.
But it was a, it was huge for

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me.
It was because, you know, I was

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so comfortable in, in survival
mode of just being quiet and shy

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and not making waves.
And even though I had some

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groups of friends, of course, in
high school, but to me that was

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something that was so big.
And then the most incredible

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thing happened, Andy.
I really felt like I belonged.

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I really felt like I found my
niche of people and I wanted

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more of it.
And it gave me so much

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confidence.
It really was my authentic self.

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It really was showing myself.
I don't want to say showing

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other people, but it really was
showing myself who I really was

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at that time where I was more
than even what I realized.

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And I really did believe myself.
I really had that confidence

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that I can do this.
And then from there, the most

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amazing thing happened where I
thought, Oh, my goodness, is

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this something I want to do in
my career?

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And that's what really brought
me to New York from Delaware,

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where I grew up.
It really made me realize, wait

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a minute, maybe I could do this
for a living because it was very

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thrilling to get applause and
get feedback and free people to

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tell you, Oh my God, are you
really good at what you do?

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Or it really fueled me.
And for the first time, I mean,

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to not have the confidence to be
shy into survival mode.

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I realized what it really meant
to wait a minute.

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Is this really my authentic
self?

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Because I think when you're
young, if you know when I had

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the camp counselor and I know
you were there for my previous

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presentation December, but you
know when it, when you had

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somebody tell you you're a
loser.

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And over, over again, if you
have teachers that are very

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bullish, if you have classmates
that are very bullish, as a

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child, you're still emotionally
driven by what they think of

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you.
And the prefrontal cortex again

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is not formed till you're 2627.
You start having these false

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belief systems about yourself,
and I just knew I wasn't what

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they thought.
I knew that I was more than what

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people were saying, more than
what I even saw, more than what

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I even believed.
And so that was just a catalyst

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for me to go to New York and
start a whole new journey.

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You mentioned being told you're
a loser and I don't want to just

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because I've heard a story, I
don't want to skip it over for

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for everybody else.
So you know who Who told you you

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were a loser?
Right.

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Well, so this was camp and I was
11 years old and I was at the

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time, you know, sort of a chubby
kid and really bad at sports,

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like I mentioned from club feet
and gross motor skill issues.

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And so it was kickball and you
know, to be fair, I was excited

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about it at that moment.
I, I didn't actually go into a

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trepidation.
In fact, I went into it thinking

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like, I'm going to do really
well.

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I, I, it's funny because I, it's
almost like a dichotomy where

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it's, it's, it's survival
motors.

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I was in, there was still that
one or 2% of me that still

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believed in myself, which is
everything, you know, to my

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healing.
So as much as I doubted myself,

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I almost believed in myself.
And so it's kickball.

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And the counselor, to his
credit, rolls the ball really

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slowly and I'm anticipating it.
Then I have one of those

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complete Charlie Brown moments,
Andy, where I literally fall on

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my smile and I literally like
just missed it completely.

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It's like Lucy took the ball
from Charlie Brown.

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Same thing happened to me.
And I'm there lying on my back

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and I'm looking at the sky and
everybody starts laughing.

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And I couldn't believe it was
almost like an everybody

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00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,360
experience.
And the counselor, whose name,

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by the way, I still don't
remember, literally said at the

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top of his lungs, what a loser.
And there was three other

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counselors and they started
laughing.

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And then the kid started
laughing and everybody started

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laughing harder and harder and
harder.

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And my brother was there.
He was the only one that didn't

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laugh, of course.
And I picked myself up and he

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puts his arm around me and I sit
on the bench.

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And I just remember thinking to
myself and that Norman, once

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more, I do not want anybody to
feel like what I feel like right

250
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now, because what I felt when
then was embarrassment and

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shame.
And you certainly know, we all

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know, I think it's men to feel.
And I've read about this

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emotional fitness, Shane.
It is, I think, the cruelest

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emotion of all the emotions.
And I just survived on it.

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00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,040
I mean, I, I, I know I mentioned
earlier in this interview how I

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00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,480
thought little Sean was, you
know, somebody I didn't really

257
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,960
want to get in touch with.
But the more I had to heal

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00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,840
myself, I realized that kid is a
badass because he was surviving

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00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,240
on shame.
I mean, wow, what a badass

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00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,200
surviving on shame.
Like literally like that's how

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he survived because he was told
so many times that, you know,

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you were a loser or you're this,
you're that.

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00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,680
And to survive on shame and look
back at it now as somebody who

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doesn't survive on shame.
So my perspective has completely

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00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,760
changed for him.
So yes, to answer your question,

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00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,200
that was not the first time I
was called a loser, but that's

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what also fueled me to want to
get into the world of fitness.

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What's more, I didn't want
people to feel ashamed of their

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bodies.
I don't want to feel people, if

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they weren't an athlete growing
up, that they had no business

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back in the gym.
That's a misconception.

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Absolutely.
Not everyone belongs.

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00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,200
So you are very vulnerable in in
your, in your book, in your

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00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,560
speaking and the telling of your
own experiences.

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Yes.
Why do you think so many men

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00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,040
still see vulnerability as a
weakness?

277
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:29,600
I think it comes down to not
feeling lovable.

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00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,520
I mean, I know when I was a
little kid and you know, going

279
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,440
back to it, you know, whether I
was overweight or not that, you

280
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,280
know, not good at sports or you
know, didn't have the confidence

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00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,440
I is people keep telling you
over and over again that you're

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00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,360
not good at something or you're
this and you're not certainly

283
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,440
believe like I mentioned
earlier, but then you don't feel

284
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,920
lovable.
And that was my issue where when

285
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,640
I moved to New York, nobody
missing me, my past, no one knew

286
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,680
my struggles, you know, you
know, the underdog story, you

287
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,480
know, I grew into my body and my
looks etcetera.

288
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,600
And so I'm never working with a
client for the first time.

289
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,720
I went to New York originally
for acting.

290
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,720
And then I realized that through
helping a friend at the gym that

291
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,240
this is truly my passion.
Like, this is something I really

292
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,800
want to do.
And I made this whole shift in

293
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,480
2005.
I moved to New York in 2000 and

294
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,040
two, 2003 at the start of 2003.
And then, you know, I got hired

295
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,400
as a personal trainer in 2003.
I never looked back.

296
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,200
But I think, you know, early on
I realized, wait a minute now

297
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,480
the shame that I had as a little
kid and not feeling lovable,

298
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,360
That's now a a, it's a story
that is just such a strong

299
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,280
residue where this is an old
belief system that just doesn't

300
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,800
fit anymore.
And I had to go back and I had

301
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,080
to be vulnerable with myself.
And that was the hardest thing

302
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:41,120
because it was really, and I
read about this emotional

303
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,360
fitness is my 5 master monsters,
but the first one is really

304
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,000
accepting your path.
And so I had accepted.

305
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,560
And I remember I, I got myself a
therapist at the time who I

306
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:51,000
still see and who wrote the Ford
in my book, who's just lovely

307
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,760
and helped me so much.
But I remember telling her, it's

308
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,880
like, why did I have to have
that childhood?

309
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,040
Like, why was that my path?
And she made it really clear to

310
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,280
me, you can't have the yin
without the Yang, meaning you

311
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:05,760
love yourself now, right?
And I said yes.

312
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,280
And she's like, you're so proud
of yourself that you're so

313
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,600
confident now.
I said yes, and you're so

314
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,720
powerful, and you have this
authentic voice.

315
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,600
And I said, yeah, I'm proud of
my authentic voice.

316
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,000
I really feel like this is who I
am right now.

317
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,400
And she's like, OK, you wouldn't
be Big Sean without little Sean.

318
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,080
You would not be who you are
without him.

319
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,280
And I think I always was going
to be an empath.

320
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,360
I think I always had a very
sensitive disposition.

321
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:26,800
But of course, I'm more of an
empath.

322
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,120
I'm more sensitive.
I know now what it really feels

323
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,600
like to struggle and to struggle
hard, right?

324
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,800
I have more appreciation for,
you know, movies and shows that

325
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,720
really feature the underdog for
that matter.

326
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,520
So I think for a lot of men, the
idea of sharing what I've

327
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,400
shared, whether it's brief or I
go into full detail, is so scary

328
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,480
for the fear of, oh, I think
it's two things.

329
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,600
One, like I said earlier, well,
I'm not going to be lovable.

330
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,920
And we all want to be loved and
accepted no matter what age.

331
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,200
And I think the second part is
the idea of really stepping

332
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,040
outside your comfort zone, Andy,
and really feeling like what it

333
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,320
would it feel like to break a
belief system.

334
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,040
Well, first of all, you have to
face those demons.

335
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,200
But what would it really be like
to break belief system?

336
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,480
That we're just not true about
yourself because we hold on to

337
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,880
these old belief systems because
they're familiar and that feels

338
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,040
comfortable.
But the truth is not being your

339
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,880
authentic self is really not
comfortable.

340
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,400
And to me, I think there's
nothing worse in life to not be

341
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,000
your authentic self because I
know what it's like for years to

342
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,240
be in survival mode and that's
not your authentic self.

343
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,840
I also know what it's like to
not feel strong and what a

344
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,880
terrible thing for somebody to
not feel strong physically.

345
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,800
And so when you sort of think
about it as if I can just allow

346
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,720
myself, if I can look in the
mirror and say to myself, you

347
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,840
know, I love that little kid or
I love former versions of

348
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,960
myself, they brought me here.
I'm not going to agree with

349
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,360
that.
They said I'm going to change

350
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,280
that Dichon me.
It all goes back to self love.

351
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,120
And if we can get into that
realm of self love and not be as

352
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,400
judge mental as everyone else
was and stop again those belief

353
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,200
systems that were just lies,
then I think we all have the

354
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,840
power and the ability to get
vulnerable because that leads

355
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,800
you to your authentic self.
One thing about belief systems,

356
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,760
at least my missing step or the
first step I had to have happen,

357
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,640
was, was an awareness that my
belief system wasn't reality

358
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,320
like there was it?
If so, you know, just because

359
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,560
you believe it doesn't mean it's
true.

360
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,880
Right, right, right.
And, and we have all these

361
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,920
thoughts that happen every day.
I mean, you have tons of

362
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,080
intrusive thoughts that happen
all the time, but when we start

363
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,280
attaching to them, it's really
easy to believe them because

364
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,000
they're, again, familiar.
Yeah, yeah.

365
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,280
And a lot of guys are encouraged
to get physically fit.

366
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,440
Gyms are rather recession proof.
There's always someone, you

367
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,880
know, trying, trying to make the
best of it.

368
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,320
Have you ever seen men use
physical fitness as a way to

369
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,800
distance themselves from their
emotions?

370
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,680
Yes.
Oh, absolutely.

371
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,160
I remember seeing, you know, a
gentleman at the gym in Brooklyn

372
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,880
that, you know, I wasn't
necessarily friendly with, but

373
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,320
you could just see the raw
aggression.

374
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,280
But even with that, you know,
you're getting anger out.

375
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,640
And that's helpful and useful.
And I think for a lot of men,

376
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,040
they're, they easily can get
angry, which is great.

377
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,839
I know for for me personally,
that was very difficult for me.

378
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,599
If I was an angry child or I
acted out with anger, I would

379
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,160
associate that with not being
love.

380
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,319
And so I think for a lot of men
when they're the gym and they're

381
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:19,280
like full of aggression and
testosterone and it's great that

382
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,480
they're there doing that because
I'd rather them take out that

383
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,520
aggression on the weights or
something else, of course.

384
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,920
And I think it's really easy,
again, to not sit in your

385
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,000
feelings.
It's really easy to go over it

386
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,840
and under it, but it's hard
work, as you know, Andy and and

387
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,640
all the guests that you've had
on to go through it because

388
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,120
that's the root, you know, I can
say, well, anxiety and

389
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,520
depression are big distractions,
of course, but if you go lower

390
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,200
than that, if you like peel back
the layers of the onion, what's

391
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,760
underneath that, you know,
what's underneath?

392
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,840
I mean, anxiety and shame for
me, as I mentioned earlier as a

393
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,440
kid, those were just coping
mechanisms.

394
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,120
But what was I really shameful
about?

395
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:53,080
What was I really anxious about?
Being terrorized again, being

396
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,800
bullied again, not being
accepted again for people to see

397
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,000
my true authentic self.
I mean, sort of breaking that

398
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,440
down in the same thing again
with anxiety.

399
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,440
OK, so anticipating again, the
worst constantly or you know, or

400
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,760
depressions the other side of
the coin, as you know, you know,

401
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,720
not allowing yourself to feel
because it's just easier not to

402
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,000
because it's so damn painful.
But I will say, as hard as it is

403
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,480
and I and I believe that I feel
like I've been on the other side

404
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,440
and back.
I encourage all my clients or

405
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,640
encourage, you know, every show
I'm on or people to read my book

406
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,360
to say that if I could truly do
it.

407
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:28,120
And I don't need this to be
cliche or cache.

408
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,000
Anyone can do it.
I really truly believe that

409
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,640
because it's really it goes back
to again, just trying to find 1%

410
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,200
of you that still truly loves
yourself.

411
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,240
It's all the roads.
We're back to self love no

412
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,120
matter what.
I I, I fully agree.

413
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,800
And you know, I, my history is,
you know, abuse and multiple

414
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,800
suicide attempts.
And I often get asked I'm like,

415
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,560
yeah, well, would you change
anything in the past?

416
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,480
And I'm like, no, because, you
know, I don't know what

417
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,080
ingredient out of order would
not make me like love who I am

418
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,200
today.
So I can't risk like, oh, get

419
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,600
rid of that trauma.
And then nothing else changes.

420
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,160
Like, well, no, you, you don't
know that.

421
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,240
And when going through horrible
experiences, it can feel like

422
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:09,680
there's no point.
There's no reason.

423
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:14,040
What did I do wrong?
You can have that shame, but in

424
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,320
all of our shit, there's a gift.
Absolutely.

425
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,200
You're right, yeah.
And, and until you're willing to

426
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,440
explore that and just see the
possibility that maybe there was

427
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,000
a plus side to all the crap I
went through, then you'll you'll

428
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000
never find it.
I mean, it's so beautiful

429
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,560
because think about all the men
that you help every day to

430
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:37,000
listen to your podcast and
Little Andy and I think about me

431
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,360
and like the worst place for
Little Sean to be was going to

432
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,280
be in a gymnasium.
You know, it was going to be,

433
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,120
you know, on the baseball field
or whatever.

434
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,920
And now and my whole world is
like, you know, not necessarily

435
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,120
sports and athletics, but of
course has so much to do with

436
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,080
the body.
And so you're right, it it's

437
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,720
something as terrible that could
happen to you or me or somebody

438
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,960
else listening.
You can't absolutely make it

439
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,000
your superpower.
I mean, that's just it.

440
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,760
And not only that, not only, you
know, are you healing yourself?

441
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,800
And I'm healing myself every
time we talk and every time we

442
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,840
give.
But then the opportunity and the

443
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,160
privilege.
Help somebody else and then it's

444
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,600
this amazing butterfly effect,
right?

445
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,280
Somebody listens to your
podcast, listens to this

446
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,720
interview or previous interview.
They go about their day and they

447
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,840
said, wow, somebody gets me or I
don't understand that, you know,

448
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,040
I'm going to try that or and he
said something that really stuck

449
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,800
with me.
But that is the gift that keeps

450
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,120
on giving.
That's the true gift.

451
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that that's something that,

452
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,800
well, maybe if people told me I
was a kid, I ignored it.

453
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,320
But I did not grew up believing
that.

454
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:38,160
Like how much being of service
how how much getting out of my

455
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:43,880
own crap and poor self opinion
would change by me focusing on

456
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,520
somebody else doing doing
anything for somebody was

457
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,640
enough.
It doesn't have to be some big

458
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,880
thing, but just exactly.
I don't, I don't think enough

459
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,160
men realize how valuable, how
good they can feel by being of

460
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,360
service. 1000% because that goes
back to my thinking then about

461
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:01,440
being worthy.
Because again, if you've had a

462
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,800
horrible past or horrific past,
it's like, well, I'm I'm that's

463
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:09,000
who I am, that's who I am.
So you're Andy the past, I'm

464
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,320
Sean of the past and that's it.
It's already written in the

465
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,240
sand.
Why even try to be anything

466
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,320
else?
Why even try to be anything

467
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,560
else?
I mean, Can you imagine?

468
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,800
I mean, your life, my life would
have gone totally different

469
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,520
direction, if not ever.
I mean, so I think the bottom

470
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,280
line is my hope is that somebody
listening to this can can take

471
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,560
what you said briefly about your
past and listen to my past and

472
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,480
say simply as it's not the end
of the book, it's not the last

473
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,440
chapter.
You have choice here, you have

474
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,560
decisions here, you have free
will here.

475
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,000
You can absolutely turn it
around.

476
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,200
And I I'd also say this to an
emotional fitness that I

477
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,400
encourage men to talk to just
somebody, one person, if I think

478
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,800
the fear is if they talk to a
guy at friend or acquaintance,

479
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,560
like, oh man, you just do that,
you know, they're going to be

480
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,480
judgement again.
And that's the last thing that

481
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,520
any man wants who's afraid to
feel or afraid to face their

482
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,200
inner demons judgement.
That is the absolute worst

483
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,800
thing.
That is, that is the devil right

484
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,280
there.
I always encourage, whether it's

485
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,480
a client of mine or somebody
meeting for the first time at a

486
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,400
presentation.
I, I asked them, there has to be

487
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,200
one person that you trust.
You know, if you trust that one

488
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,520
person, I think you'll be really
shocked and surprised because

489
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,760
what I have learned, and he is,
and I'm sure this has been your

490
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,160
experience too, especially with
your show.

491
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,800
When I am vulnerable with
another man, they're vulnerable

492
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,560
back.
There's this reciprocation just

493
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,040
like how you were just briefly
now.

494
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,480
And Oh my God, talk about
acceptance, right?

495
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:29,840
Then we start accepting each
other.

496
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,960
Then we start realizing I'm not
the only one and that this is OK

497
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,960
and this is safe.
Because that's really what it

498
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,080
is.
You're now in a safe place.

499
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,640
I am now in a safe place.
Growing up, it probably was not

500
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,080
safe for you.
As you mentioned briefly, I

501
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,840
realized that's how little Sean
coped.

502
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,840
Now those are double traits.
Those were my best friends.

503
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,760
That's how I survived.
That's why I'm here.

504
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,880
So wow, so I think if men could
realize your demons are not

505
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,160
necessarily your demons, your
demons, yes, they're

506
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,320
uncomfortable now because it's a
belief system doesn't fit

507
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,040
anymore.
It's a coping mechanism.

508
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,840
And I'm sure you would agree
that doesn't fit anymore.

509
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,200
But if you could go back and say
to yourself, oh, wait a minute,

510
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,160
my body or my brain or my
emotions were only trying to

511
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,320
protect me.
I understand now.

512
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,440
I understand that they were just
trying to be my best friend

513
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,320
instead.
Can I take again those painful

514
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,720
emotions like shame or anxiety,
depression, and retool it to

515
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,760
say, OK, that's how I survived,
it doesn't fit anymore.

516
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,360
What strategies can I use now to
survive to get me to my

517
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:33,680
authentic self?
If more men would put that work

518
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,560
in, I think we'd have a less
hostile society.

519
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,440
I think that men would be able
to complement each other.

520
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,080
I think there wouldn't be any of
this ridiculous competition that

521
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,680
keeping up with the Joneses
even.

522
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,360
I think if men could really see
each other for not the car they

523
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:50,760
drive or the money, their back
account or their race or their

524
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,240
sexuality.
Just like this is my neighbor

525
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,800
and he's here and I see all the
good in him because I did my

526
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,080
work.
It'd be a peaceful society.

527
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,840
John, what's the best way for
people to connect with you?

528
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,560
Get the book, Learn more about
everything that you're up to.

529
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,760
Thank you.
So it's Zetlin Fitness, ZETLIN

530
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,360
fitness.com, and I'm also on
Instagram and Facebook and

531
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,680
LinkedIn, Zetlin Fitness, Sean
Zetlin and.

532
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,000
Finally, Sean, what is one thing
that you wish more men knew?

533
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,400
Great question that everybody
suffers their own way.

534
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,840
I know I said it earlier, but
it's the truth.

535
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,440
Nobody you meet, whether again,
they come from this society or

536
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,240
they live in this state or
they're this age, nobody's

537
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,120
problem. 3 and people, I really
believe it's the old adage we've

538
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,640
all heard.
Everyone's fighting their own

539
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:44,840
battles.
I believe that.

540
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,800
And I also believe that people
that have hurt you and me, Andy,

541
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,000
along the way, I want to believe
that that's a byproduct of,

542
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,280
again, you know, generational
trauma.

543
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,640
They, I think a bully really
does suffer.

544
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,240
I think, you know, bullies are
trying to survive also.

545
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,520
I look back at the counselor,
the bullish kids growing up and

546
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,240
all that.
And I just, you know, I, I don't

547
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,920
have the same anger or
resentment anymore.

548
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,280
I don't have the same, you know,
want them to get there, as you

549
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,160
know, kind of thing.
And now I look at it as it was

550
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,640
my path.
I accept it.

551
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,160
But more importantly that they
were suffering too.

552
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,360
They were suffering too.
Well, Sean, I appreciate you

553
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,080
taking your suffering and
turning it into service to

554
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,960
yourself, to your family and to
all of your clients and all,

555
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,480
all, all the readers, all the
people that hear you speak

556
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,080
again.
We, we need more men in touch

557
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:37,640
with everything.
There.

558
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,000
There aren't some emotions for
men and some somehow make you

559
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,440
and not not a man.
It just it's just not the case.

560
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,240
Thank you, Andy, and thank you
for appreciating me.

561
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,280
And I want to say back to you as
well, thank you for doing what

562
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,240
you do because you're helping
and guiding so many and you're a

563
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,600
voice for so many as well.
John, thanks so much for joining

564
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,720
me today and for your mission to
help people redefine strength

565
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,120
through emotional awareness,
resilience, and authenticity.

566
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,440
You can learn more about Sean
and his work at

567
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,000
zetlandfitness.com where he
shares training options and his

568
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,200
emotional fitness based work.
If this conversation spoke to

569
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,440
you, please share it with
another man who needs to hear

570
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,120
this.
That vulnerability is not

571
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,800
weakness and that honesty is not
failure.

572
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,160
Real strength includes emotional
truth.

573
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,480
If you want a place to go
deeper, join us in the authentic

574
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,480
AF community, visit
realmenfeel.org/group and until

575
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,720
next time, be good to yourself.