Regular Guy Chat with Ken | Leaning Into Fear

0:00 Greetings and welcome to real men. Feel I'm your host, Andy Grant, I'm an author coach healer and other things like ever, think of. So if you want to find out what those are, the things that are visit, the Andy grant.com, real men feel is here to remind, man, that they human beings and have the right. The need the desire to express those emotions. One of those emotions is fear. Men are often told isn't good to fear things, but you can't be courageous or Brave without recognizing fear first and I And time and time again, when I walked boldly into my fear, when I do the things that I'm really afraid of magical things happen. Recently, I put out the call in our private real men. Feel Facebook group for anyone interested in doing a regular guy chat.

0:46 That means no agenda. Nothing to sell. Promote is just a regular dude, who has something to share. And I said, if you're interested by terrified, that's a great sign to say, yes. My guest today, husband father brother retired, IT professional and present-day, Wellness Warrior can McKean said yes. And I am terrified. So, welcome to the show. I'm glad to have you here on real Midfield. Can thank you so much and you for having me and I'm still terrified, but I, this is I hear this is part of progress and growth. So here we go. Awesome, so, that's it. So what made you say? Yes, what? Why didn't just go? That sounds scary, I'm not doing that. Like what? Got the yes out of you? I think it's kind of like you said, leaning into the fear a little bit as I'm in my trauma recovery. I found that there's a lot of growth there in the years past. I would always just be running away and hiding from this fear and things that scared me.

1:42 But now I pay a little more attention and try to poke out a little more. So, and Are there specific fears that rise up? Or is it just a generalized? Terror. Yeah. There's so there's a lot of shame in my background. So it's hard to, you know, get past that and really share authentically without without Being nervous or whatever. Well as someone who speaks about my own shame and experience I'm always nervous and I think if that ever went away it wouldn't be authentic it. Be this just pre rehearse thing now. So if I'm not feeling it, it's almost like I'm faking it. So yeah, I think I find it those nerves especially when it comes to someone being authentic and vulnerable. Those nerves.

2:38 Tell you that. Yeah, you're welcome. Trail man, you're doing right, where you're right. Where you should be Ken. In my past, it hasn't been safe to do that, you know. So that's why I've learned, you know, from very young age to not feel, you know. So you mentioned trauma, recovery. You mentioned, you know, from a young age. So tell us a little bit about about your story. What was life? Like I'm the youngest of six children. So I'm the baby and my next. Oldest brother is five and a half years older than me and the rest of them and much. Older than than him. So from the very beginning, I was kind of told that I was kind of a mistake and many other things by by both my parents and my siblings and early on. I was given a feminist, a feminine nickname. So I was kind of the old.

3:36 My older sisters wanted me to be a girl, so so they could have an even three and and so from when I was born, you know, they kind of wished, I was a girl and, you know, Shamed me that way, you know, and we're all kids. Yeah, I'm not sure that, you know, they knew what was going on. They have they'll have their own issues, but I found out about three or four years ago. I got sober. I stopped, I've stopped drinking, and I started addressing some of these things, and, and she's so many. So many traumatic experiences started coming. To me, it was really incredibly overwhelming, and it wasn't just my family. I, because of my family upbringing, I was extremely vulnerable and completely abandoned. So I was taken advantage of by a lot of other people, bullies and everything.

4:34 And So, but our mind, it was just locked away somewhere that I really, you know, I didn't have touch with it for many many, many years. And, you know, covered up with alcohol. And but as I started to, you know, again, stop drinking and start to feel better, you know, just things come flooding back to me, you know? So that's been difficult. So, as a child, were you conscious of Of the treatment and feeling the shame then, or is it, is it something that built unconsciously? I think I felt it that I felt it in my body and just as a young child just, you know, my reaction was just survival, really? I don't know that I felt this so strong when I was young but you know as I as these things started coming back to me, you know I can see Vivid scenes that that have been corroborated by other people.

5:38 Yeah, that I forgot all about. And how young were you when you turn to alcohol for some relief? I think the first time I drank was I was 12. And then my parents got divorced at 13 and really neither one of my parents wanted me even then it was weird. It was a strange situation where the court. Let me decide who to live with and normally that wasn't how it went. And, you know, neither one of them was stepping up for me. So, you know, I made a choice. The rest of my family thought the choice was kind of selfish. So I stayed with my dad but my dad traveled, a lot of work. So I was really by myself, you know, going to make my own meals, do my own laundry and going to school myself when I was about 13, did that drive the choice knowing that you'd be alone a lot?

6:40 No, I think my brother and sister started again, I was being selfish in that way that I was going to be alone and just do whatever I wanted to. But my mom was moving into a trailer park and I just I didn't want to grow up in a trailer park. And I didn't want my teenage years to be in a trailer park, and I guess was the most of it and she was bipolar and an alcoholic. So you know. It wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a scene that I wanted to go to that. Won't you stay in the house that I grew up in? Did your parents treat your brothers and sisters differently or were they were they kind of cold and aloof?

7:22 Did they not care for any children or is it just after those day? It was just kind of you feeling that way. That's a good question. I think the mental illness went on untreated for many years, they are so much older than me. That they have kind of a different upbringing than I do, and I mean, we're really literally dip in Generations, you know? no, it's hard for me to say what kind of what their upbringing was like, but I think there was There was a lot of suffering going on there for them as well. And did you have any sort of reconciliation as an adult with any of your siblings? Did you end up getting closer at all?

8:06 I'm actually in a tough spot with that. Now I had to like last year, I had to write them all letter and, and, you know, a lot of people, there's a lot of advice out there to write a letter and you don't need to send it or anything, but I just felt like, you know, each one of us is getting closer to death every single minute, so I hit send and so I let them know how the abuse and the abandonment and the shame has affected me. And I told him that I really can't see. You buddy, family-related? And yeah. And then, that was last September, and then a couple months later, I found out.

8:46 My son was getting married, so I had to invite. We had to invite on my family, after I just had told them all of that. So so yeah, the reconciliations in progress. If you decided how everybody lived, would you like to be in relationship with them or would you rather just be not seeing anybody? The trauma and the injury feels like, I just want to isolate all the time, you know? So that's really where I go right away. Always in fact, I have kind of this complex, PTSD thing and and when I when I touch base with you, I was still in the midst of it.

9:31 You know, I just had a real trigger that I was. I've been down for about four or five days just really kind of catatonic but I do know. Now what's going on there was some years that I was To get all the time. I didn't know what's going on. So I'm sorry. What was your question, Andy about? If you got to decide, would you rather have a relationship with your siblings? Have a Reconciliation or just be alone and not not ever deal with them? I would, I would want to reconciliation with them for sure. I think the Solitude and isolation and loneliness is not a good place for me to be.

10:11 Yeah, it's not a good place for any human beings. Oh yeah, yeah, that's so yeah just give you full you know, you know, permission and that that's a human need. So it's the think that there's something wrong because you don't like being alone like, yeah, please, no one should do that to themselves. So, so it sounds like the your healing really started fairly recently. About six years ago. I got to know you. I my third Lui. You know, Massachusetts is not too friendly with these things. My other 20 you eyes were 30 years ago and they were still going to use that against me.

10:52 Yeah. So I went through hell. In the most recent 12 year long Court battle and it turned out okay. But so that was my most recent I'm the Jesus moment, I guess. So through College and Career and as an adult was alcohol, kind of the the main crutch for your survival. Or I like, how else did you deal with with, with the the shame and, and the trauma and the PTSD that you've talked about? Yeah.

11:32 Yeah, mostly alcohol. Yeah it's so It's so ubiquitous, you know, it's so normal, you know, to, you know, drink and watch the game or whatever. So yeah, it was, I drank every day and we you consciously like I've got an, um, how bad I feel? Or was it just again to just feel like, Society, just feel normal? It felt normal. But many days, it was like, I can't wait to get to that one to, You Know, cover up these feelings. Yeah, it did. So with your sisters, wanting to feminize you more, but you still growing up with that masculine role of like, oh, I can't have these feelings, these aren't good. So you got was there just this mixed message of Yes, Express how you feel, tell people what's going on and but most of it was, you know, shut up Ken.

12:31 Yeah it could question know those. Most of it is you know, there's no room for emotion and if family is six kids, you know we were told I'll give you something to cry about, you know what I mean, emailed a little child, you know, hearing that, you know. So we would definitely talk to, you know, suck it up. So you have a son, you have more than the your one son. Yes, we have two sons, but do you find yourself passing on that same message or we wherever and try to change it? Like, how did it? How was it being a father? Oh yeah, I thought about that constantly.

13:14 When we first found out we were pregnant, you know? I didn't have good Role Models so like I was afraid but I knew so many things not to do. So that was my starting point and from there I'm kind of a researcher and a learner. So I do a lot of that in many different Realms. So I just started researching about good parenting skills, and things like that. It really provided a safe home for them, you know, I'm sure I am sure that I pass certain things down, but I try my best to do the best I can. Yeah. And that's all any of us can do.

13:56 And ideally our expectations of each other are just people do the best they can. And and with our own growth we discovered that the best we can do. The best others can do changes over time, right? We have not even good days. Bad days. We have good moments and bad moments. When we're communicative, when were supportive and other times, when we're shut down, were angry were triggered. So, but yeah. I it's so I do. I'm glad That you don't think anything was done by your you know, your family and upbringing intentionally to harm you right? Oh yeah I know I'm sure everybody was going through. Just incredible suffering in their own way.

14:38 Yeah if not for the OU, I Do you think it would have changed anything? Probably not. I after I got through the court and everything I quit, my job, I had was with the company for 38 years so I would probably still be in that miserable stressful situation and yeah, things would probably be worse. Okay, so you quit a job that you didn't like it all to begin with the sounds like that. Yes, it wasn't. All right. So it was and so was quitting part of your conscious choosing to start improving. Changing life or was with it, I just into court issues. No, it was to improve my life.

15:31 You know, I often go back to the addition by subtraction Rule and I started taking things out of my life, that just weren't working for me, and, unfortunately, that was my career. But you know, I got so much better by doing this, whether it was alcohol medicines, you know, the medical Field is just killing us. So medicine food, I changed, what? I eat, totally lost 60 pounds, you know, I walk every day. So I just, you know, but little by little again, it was just taking things out of my life. That would just making me just out of balance. Can you tell me a little bit about the man that had the biz biggest impact on your life?

16:23 Goof. It was probably my grandfather, my dad's dad and He was a he was a calm gentle guy. So he was he was my He's my island in the middle of the chaos, you know? And He died when I was probably maybe 12 years old, maybe maybe 11:00 so you know. Way too soon for me. So he had a big impact because he was just loving and kind, you know, what you what you need as a, as a young kid. So at least showed you at least had an example of what was possible for an adult in your life. Yeah.

17:15 Ken does anything stand out as something? You're you're proud of Yeah, I'm totally proud of my mighty songs. They are incredible people and I'm not just saying that because I'm their dad, you know. I hear that I've heard from so many people and that, you know, I heard you recently say how hard it is to take compliments and and, and I think about that a lot because, you know, we do get compliments about our kids often and it's hard. It's hard to take because we kind of sometimes. I take it for granted, but, you know, we've worked hard on everything, that where we are now So I'm totally proud of what they've done. They both Mill to move to California. Got incredible jobs in Silicon Valley and you know, and many other things accolades the as you get better at receiving praise for your Offspring.

18:18 Can you take any ownership of helping to create the the great men that they are? It's very hard for me to do. I just can't I didn't fuck him up too bad. I guess is where I go, you know. So yeah I know that's that's difficult because I want them, you know, they've done a lot of the lot of the hard work for themselves. So even when I say I'm proud of my kids, I feel like that's kind of selfish. It's like reflecting on me. That you know, look at me. I'm I'm proud. But like really, it's, you know, they've done a lot of the work so they should be proud of themselves.

18:59 Is what I Let's say, you know, but and have you asked them what do they respond? I haven't asked them if they're proud of themselves. I think being selfish gets a really bad rap and its really twisted because Can, if you can feel proud of people in your life of children of a job of things, you've done of all these kind of intangibles, that's modeling to your kids that they could be proud of themselves. So if everybody is so cuz I know I'm selfish, I don't wanna be about me, then people grow up. Oh, nothing's about me it. I find that it our fear or the excuse of saying, I don't be selfish is another way to deny our worth in our value and stop loving yourself. Yeah.

19:48 So be proud as hell own. That shit ain't right, you know, you're right, I was kind of taught not to be selfish, you know, especially in a family of eight, you know, you know, there's no room for that kind of any, any selfishness, but really, you know, the last few years, it's all about putting my own oxygen mask on first, you know, and I mean being a better version of myself every day and every week so that I can, you know, help. Better help other people like choices for your survival choices for your growth for your joy in life. I don't believe any of those are selfish. Choices that the selfishness that is - is from the competitive side.

20:32 Like I'm going to take that from. You don't know. You can't have but no like feeling happy feeling proud like that. There's not some finite supply of that. You can't use it up for like your family didn't get like here's your five pounds of Pride and divvied up amongst the eight of you. Yeah, like that. That'd be a, I'd be a, you know, for whatever laments we have about this world like that. Be even a worse one. If yeah if our emotions Were Somehow finite and limited and had to be parceled out and decide like always, this is this really the best day I should be happy? Or do should I have save that? Unfortunately, too many men live like that. Like we're not allowed to feel like I meet so many guys that, you know, anger is it?

21:16 And it's all the didn't I? But people, some guys can't even let themselves be happy. It's like angry and okay. Like, that's the peak. Yeah. And there's so much more to all of us. I was constantly triggered. You know, about G talk about anger, like I could barely go out in society. She, you know, just pissed it. Everybody all the time. So I'm glad to, you know, just have certain trigger moments and not be just triggered all the time, you know? so now when something triggers you, if you find yourself angry at person to situation, whatever it might be, What do you think you're really angry about? Yeah.

22:06 Usually ends up coming down to not being loved and I'm worthiness, you know, really complete vast emptiness inside. That's usually what it comes down to, in abandonment, feel fear of Abandonment, that that's usually that what's behind everything. But, you know, if Years ago, I wouldn't even be thinking about a processing these things, but, you know, as they come to be now, like, why is that emotion so strong? So I always tried, I often try to analyze a little, but sometimes it takes a few days. Let's play again. There's no limitation to the emotions and there's no, you know, there's no time clock.

22:51 You do you know, run out of time. There's not a period or a game. That that says how long it can take you to process something and Figure out what the root. What is the root cause and why am I feeling this way? And what can I do to change it? If it shows up again in the future? I mean, that's that's, that's life. Is there anything that you were since we talked about pride? Is there anything you're looking forward to? I am looking forward to that mankind weekend coming up again. Absolutely terrified but I've learned. That oftentimes, it's just this growth, incredible, personal growth on the other side of that. So I try to pick my things and kind of work through them. So I am looking forward to that.

23:41 And when you think about, like, I've said that that line too. But where else could tremendous personal growth be, except on the other side of what we're freakin over. What's trigger? Us was upsetting us like, right? It's it's not, you know, again, you can't just like mail order. It It's, there's plenty of it but it takes your conscious effort and, and usually, a conscious effort to do something new. Now as I feel like there's a lot of things here but the does anything stand out as something that you really wish you had learned at a younger age. Yeah, there's a lot. I think.

24:28 You know, self-love and worthiness would be one. and, I don't know. It's a big one. That's that's yeah you really that you're worth it. And really nobody else is in charge of that Andy, you know what I mean? You're in charge of that, you know, you can be treated like shit constantly but in the end, the only one that's going to pull you out. It is yourself. So, you know, in some way, you know, you have to feel that yourself. So I guess the biggest thing is even in relationships. Can't rely on the other person to make you feel happy.

25:11 You know what I mean everything is inside of you so it's you so that I feel like this comes back to being selfish then everything's down to you. So if you don't if you don't think you're important you can't accomplish any of these things that matter. That's right. Yeah. Can is there anything else you want to share with people today? Um, I don't know. We covered a lot of ground. I think one thing that has helped in my relationship with my wife. We've been, she's kind of my junior, high school sweetheart. We've been together, 40, something years, but one of the most recent things, well fairly recent the last 10 years, maybe is in our house. We have a one asshole at a time rule. So and its really helps and really what that's about is kind of a craft title, but what it's about is when it has some of these have Your bad day just to not compound that it's not the time to pile on.

26:13 It's the times you create space and just let the person just throw up all the bullshit. And so we've, we've had a lot of growth that way and not not just being so reactive to each other situation but just let the purse have space and maybe if this things you don't agree with you can talk about it later but so I guess in in General in any conversation is just giving giving space. A lot of people are just, they're not listening to just waiting to talk. So I think we need more more listening in the world. Cool. I look I've not heard that term of the one asshole at time rules.

26:55 So I uh, I really like that saying that. So that's all I know every every single person you could bump into again, has these nuggets has these things that work has this turn of phrase, something into it. Ted, give that spark to someone else, that definitely needs it. So it's really to sorry, it's rubbing one reason. I am terrified. And one reason I wanted to do this for any, it would be a disservice for me. I feel right now to if there's just one person that got anything out of our conversation today, then it will be a disservice not for me to talk talk about it. So that's why I'm going to be start talking a little more, something a mint. Alright, great so so what are some of the Ken's plans? What what ways do you see or wish to be talking more about about being you?

27:50 I'm in development of like, some kind of men's programs, you know? I'm not sure where it's going to take me, but I would like to create some digital products for to be accessed online to help men survived really. It covers a lot of different, a lot of different topics. So I think getting more involved, men's work is on my, on my agenda. Cool, and awesome. I mean, I want to point out that You're already involvement. Yeah, you're a man. You working on yourself, you're being positively selfish. So you were involved in men's work. Cumin just for anyone wondering so Ken and I are both in Massachusetts.

28:36 But yesterday was the first time I ever spoke and and you ask me some questions about the mankind project. Now let you know that there was the new Warrior training Adventure weekend was coming up here in Massachusetts at the end of this month and of October and you signed up last night. So again, I applaud you for taking more scary action because it, I swear to you I'm getting emotional. Just thinking about how mmm, I swear to you how proud and grateful and full of healthy masculinity, you're going to be at the end of that weekend. Looking forward to it.

29:20 Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks Ken for, for stepping in to the fear and for sharing just a bit of your experience, your life and your, your newfound wisdom, and the ways that you love yourself and improve the life of yourself and your family. Thanks so much for opening up to us. Thanks everyone, listening today. Here in New England, it's definitely Prime hoodie weather, and if you want to sport a warrior king lever magician, man, hoodie like I've made I designed this years ago, For me and other people have asked so they're actually, they are for sale. You can visit real men field dot org, slash swag. They come in multiple colors and they're just still there are kept there under $40. So they are the the bargain of the century in menswear, wherever you discovering real men. Feel, Please, Subscribe, follow.

30:06 Like, share this with someone post review a comment. If Ken story resonates with someone in your life, like share this with them, let them hear this. Let them hear the that growth healing recovery. All of that is possible. And and it's, it's each human beings. Birthright to attain those things. Like we're meant to live joyous lives. We really, really are. I believe that to my core. As always, you can reach out to me at real men, feel at gmail.com and it. So next time, don't just be good to yourself, love yourself.