The Depression Files

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You are listening to real men,
feel with Andy grant real men,

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feel encourages men to allow and
express all of their emotions,

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despite what you may have been
taught all emotions, do serve

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you real.
Men feel is committed to

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engaging in discussions that
most men aren't having, but all

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men can benefit from all links
mentioned in each episode.

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Are in the show notes found on
the blog at real men, feel

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dot-org.
Now let's get to it.

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Hello.
And welcome to another edition

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of real men.
Feel, this is your host, Andy

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Grant.
Point.

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Well we are still in the midst
of the coronavirus pandemic.

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Unless ideally by the time you
listen to it it's all a thing of

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the past and no one even
remembers what I'm talking about

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but I don't think that's going
to be the case but nerves are

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high anxiety.
Anxiety is high, there's a lot

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of fear.
So today we're going to talk

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about a really cheery subject,
depression, joining me today is

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mental health, Advocate
podcaster, Nami speaker, logger

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and Coach, mr.
Levin, welcome to the show.

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Good.
How you Andy, thank you very

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much for having me.
It's a pleasure.

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I've been looking forward to a
connecting, you to connecting

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with you for a while.
First, I just want to ask, like,

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so, how are you really at this
crazy time?

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I'm doing.
Well, it has been really a crazy

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time like you said, and I think
it's probably been crazy for

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most listeners.
You know, for me here in and

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school administrator and st.
Paul public schools, and we

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recently had a strike And so all
the teachers were on strike us

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administrators were in the
building with essentially on our

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own and teachers settled and
came back to work for about one

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day.
And then we were told that we

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were going to be working
remotely, teacher started

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working remotely, and then
administrators a couple days

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later.
So, this week is my first week

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working remotely as a public
school administrator.

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And so, it's really, it's really
Inaud, and I think st.

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Paul Public Schools.
I give them a lot of credit.

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They are pumping out a ton of
information.

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We're getting things rolling
really fast.

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We're having remote meetings
already and getting ready for

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distance learning starting after
next week, which is our spring

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break.
Oh, cool.

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Because I know some place some
places around the country of

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seem to be closing.
Some it seems like it's up to

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each School up to each teacher
to come up with content.

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Try to get in touch with
students but you sound like you

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guys have a real sense.
Realized plan.

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Yeah, we definitely have a plan
in our K.

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Through 2.
Teachers are going to be using a

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platform called seesaw primarily
in our grades 3 through 12 are

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going to be using, schoology,
which they've used for a long

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time.
So I, you know, it'll be

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interesting to see it roll out
and, you know, I was trying to

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joke about a serious subject but
that's how the only way I can

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talk about it for my experiences
to is to try to bring some humor

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into it, but are you In in
students and teachers and family

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and friends is, there are people
really on edge you seeing more

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depression, or is it not kind of
sucks, you know, it's hard to

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say about depression like
clinical depression but

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definitely people are on edge,
people are feeling overwhelmed

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in many ways.
You know, our staff are trying

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to work remotely which they've
never done our teaching.

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Our paraprofessionals are trying
to figure out their role and

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we're trying to meet with them
and they haven't had the, you

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know, Perience, on technology,
like our teachers have so a lot

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of it is new to them, they're
feeling overwhelmed in that

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respect, but they're also
feeling overwhelmed, you know,

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being parents or older folks and
everybody's got their own

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situation.
But I think the combined, let's

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try to, you know, get this
online distance learning rolling

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as quickly as possible get
through all this information

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being fed to us and understand
it and get it up and rolling at.

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And at the same time dealing
With like, I mentioned family

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situations and other things.
I think a lot of people are

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overwhelmed.
I don't know about depression

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right now.
I think definitely some, but I

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haven't seen it myself with the
people.

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I work with cool.
Yeah, we're trying.

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We're trying, you know, like you
mentioned adding humor and stuff

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and and you know, it's a fine
line to I have learned the hard

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way from screwing up myself by,
you know, trying to bring light,

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to some things that are very
seriously.

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Very serious and could be very,
very triggering for certain

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people depending on what they're
going through, right?

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So and I never want to make
light of coronavirus because I

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want to make sure people are
taking it very seriously.

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Yet at the same time, you know,
there's some pretty funny memes

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out there and things to try to
keep some lightheartedness but

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not take away.
The the fact that it's important

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and that's kind of how I try to
do a lot of my advocacy work at

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least on Twitter.
I try to add humor where I can

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because it's not a very humorous
Subject.

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But I try to add it where I can,
and I think people would see if

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they listen to my podcast, it's
all interviews of men, but there

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are a fair amount of laughs
depending on who I'm

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interviewing and what we're
talking about.

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Cool.
So let's dive into that.

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Let tell me about your podcast
which is called the depression

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files.
Yep.

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So the depressed, I'm sorry, the
depression files and the

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podcast, I have almost 70
interviews published currently.

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So every single episode is a an
interview with a man who has

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dealt with depression and or
some other type of mental

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illness.
Originally, my thought was just

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guys who have gone through
depression.

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And I realized after, probably,
my first five interviews, like,

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wow, these guys are dealing with
many mental illnesses.

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So it was really cool.
And I just kind of started

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promoting it that way and adding
the fact that it could be other

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mental illnesses.
And it's really cool to be able

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to speak to these men, and to be
able to dig deep and learn about

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them.
Experiences.

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I have three goals for the show.
The first goal is to educate

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those who know little about
depression and, or other mental

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illnesses to support those who
are going through depression, or

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another mental illness.
And finally, to chip away at the

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stigma, I think there is a lot
of power in sharing our stories,

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and the more people share, the
more likely others are to share.

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And, or to reach out for help, I
spoke publicly.

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Luckily in front of all the st.
Paul Public School

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administrators and and shared my
story and even two years after

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that talk, some people reached
out to me to say, you know what,

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I'm finally talking about the
abuse.

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I dealt with as a kid and, and
sharing that story and

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advocating around it.
So, you know, it's just a

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testament to the more, we share
our story.

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So I really want to give men
voice to share their stories in

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a platform to do that and it's
been It's selfishly.

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I get to learn a ton about so
many different mental illnesses

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and I just love meeting these
men and hearing their stories.

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Cool, cool.
And you mentioned, you had some

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sort of experience because I was
sure that nobody creates

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something called the depression
files without first having some

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experience of their own in
regards to that.

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Yeah, absolutely.
So I have had two bouts of major

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depression.
My first one was really easy to

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understand why I had been
promoted.

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Get into a principal position in
the district.

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And at the time, I had a
five-year-old, a three-year-old,

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and two newborns.
So so a lot on the plate and

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like, unlike many, I'm sorry,
like many other principles, and

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people who are promoted into
those roles.

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I came into a really challenging
position.

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There were cuts to the budget
already and I was cutting people

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who hadn't even met and we were
getting out.

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Rages class sizes and there were
technical issues in the building

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and just a lot on the plate and
then to come home to a

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five-year-old three-year-old.
And two newborns was it was a

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lot on the plate and and it was
also difficult for me because I

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didn't see the family very
often.

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I was up.
And and at work before anybody

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was out of bed and nine times
out of ten, I was always home

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after dinner and nine times out
of ten after bedtime.

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So, after two years, what So I
did start experiencing

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depression and I saw my family
doctor and that was a bizarre

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experience.
One of the symptoms I had at the

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time at least when I was
visiting with him was kind of

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fidgeting and I was pacing in
this little office that was four

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by four and I literally couldn't
sit down which was really weird

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for me and he walked in and
right away was just like, whoa,

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what's going on?
And shared with them my story.

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And he said, this is definitely
depression.

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He started me on a medication
and I started some talk therapy

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and I think, you know, I got
better after a couple of months

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and I was able to stay at work,
but it was rough.

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And then after two years as a
principal, I asked to

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voluntarily step down, back to
an assistant principal mostly,

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because I wanted to see my
family again and be a part of my

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kids lives.
So and then my second year as an

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assistant principal, all of a
sudden, out of nowhere, came my

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second bout of depression and I
still remember sitting in a car

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with my brother.
And best friend saying, you know

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what my body feels really
different.

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And this isn't going to be good
and I started to crash and I

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crashed hard and wasn't able to
really communicate with people

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found myself at a Thanksgiving
dinner, sitting at the kitchen

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island countertop, Ching, my
family and friends like

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communicating and I couldn't
even associate with them.

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And you know, I wasn't sleeping.
I couldn't sleep at all and my,

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my wife and I talked that night
and said, you know, if this is

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how I Am With Friends, what's it
like at work and we didn't want

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my boss, I had a new boss at his
at that time.

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My second year as an assistant
principal, the school got a new

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bought, a new principal but
different building that I was

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then when I was a principal.
But I shared with him and I

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didn't want him to think I was
just incompetent, so my wife and

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I agreed that I should tell him
what was going on met with him

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at a coffee shop.
The very next morning and shared

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with him what was going on and
he just said, you know what, go

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home and take care of yourself.
We'll be.

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Alright, at school.
And as I walked out of the

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coffee shop, he called my wife
to say Al just shared what's

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going on.
And I want you to know, he's on

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his way home.
Just to make sure he gets there.

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So obviously he was very
supportive.

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But yeah, so so I ended up
taking originally ten days off

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and I always call them
unstructured days.

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I had no plans.
I was trying to adjust my meds

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and seeing a psychiatrist and
figured okay after two weeks

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I'll be better.
And and I'll go back to work,

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but you know, I wasn't sleeping
at all.

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I couldn't eat, I had a huge
knot in my stomach.

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I was rolling around in bed.
Not sleeping.

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I would tell my wife during the
day, hey, my psychologist said,

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it's like a brain injury and I
need to nap.

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I would stay in bed for like 3
hours during the day, trying to

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nap and just roll around in bed,
but that was like my safe space.

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So I did that.
And I remember laying down with

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my daughter one night and
because I used to when they were

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that age, I would lay down with
them and get them to bed.

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And then my wife would, we would
usually wake me up 15 minutes

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later and be like, okay, they're
asleep.

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And my daughter nudged me in the
side and she was like, all

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right, Dad, I'm good.
I was like, okay and I didn't

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get up.
I figured if I laid down long

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enough with her, that I would
wake up and it would be time for

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me to get ready for bed for
myself.

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I just, I would create a list of
things to do, like, do one load

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of laundry, clean one bathroom,
and I couldn't do any of it.

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I was on the couch or I was in
bed.

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Sometimes I was connected at my
wife by The Hip not knowing what

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I should be doing.
It was really Really bizarre.

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And then I decided to go back to
work.

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There was about a week or two
week period before winter break

227
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and I thought that would be a
good trial period And I started

228
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having some, I wasn't getting
better and I started having some

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generalized thoughts of suicide
and I knew that I had a really

230
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washed wishy-washy psychiatric
PA and I went and I told him hey

231
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,100
I'm having some generalized
thoughts of suicide.

232
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Here is this, could it be the
meds as paradoxical as it is

233
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that the fact that
antidepressants have black box

234
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warning saying that they could
increase thoughts of suicide, or

235
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could it be my depression?
He said, yeah, could be either,

236
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he raised my meds and then my
Suicidal Thoughts, my crying

237
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bouts got worse, hold it
together.

238
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All day and ball at night.
My Suicidal Thoughts became a

239
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plan.
I mean I found myself doing some

240
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really weird things like in the
dark in my bedroom with my

241
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laptop open searching, I just
Googled suicide.

242
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And the first sight, I found
showed the methods, the number

243
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of seconds to death and the
number 0 to 10 and how painful

244
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it would be.
And I slammed my laptop shut and

245
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just couldn't believe I was
doing that.

246
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Finally created a plan that was
viable and I knew how how I was

247
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going to do that and I couldn't
get the thoughts out of my head

248
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as much as I try to push him
away and then they'd be there in

249
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like 20 minutes later.
And finally, I woke up one night

250
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and drempt was dreaming about it
and woke up and was scared as

251
00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:20,900
hell and invited my wife and my
sister to go to my psychiatric

252
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:24,600
appointment to, to support me
and they did, and my wife really

253
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,600
put her, my sister really put
her foot down and said, look, he

254
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,200
needs more because the Your PA
said, you know, you could take

255
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,600
work off, but that could be
stressful to and what do you do?

256
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,800
What do you tell them?
So, I did take time off and

257
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,700
checked myself into a partial
hospitalization program for

258
00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:46,000
three weeks, which was a great
start Kickstart to the recovery.

259
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:48,600
So that was lengthy.
Sorry about that.

260
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,500
Andy, no, no, never never
apologize for sharing, something

261
00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:55,900
like that.
No, and I just want to take a

262
00:14:55,908 --> 00:14:59,000
minute and take it out in for
myself.

263
00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:02,900
Yeah, it's a lot of it got
really, really heavy and like I

264
00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:06,500
said, I couldn't even believe
the things I was doing and how

265
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much it impacted my focus, my
memory, my cognition, I was

266
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driving my daughter, a block and
a half away to pick up a

267
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carpool.
Kid who had driven with many

268
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,100
times and I got lost.
It's literally one turn from our

269
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:26,600
house about six blocks and I got
spun around and had to pull over

270
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and pull out Google Maps.
And I was so, Fairest and

271
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:32,800
worried that my daughter was
going to see what I was doing.

272
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I was trying not to let her
know.

273
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:40,400
Yeah, everything is.
It's almost like there's a PTSD

274
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,400
for suicide attempts because
everything you're saying, I'm

275
00:15:43,408 --> 00:15:45,900
just having different flashbacks
different times in my own life

276
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and I know that site I know
those feelings, I know there's

277
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experiences so I hear you and
thank God, you had such a

278
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:58,400
supportive family and and
workplace and and Community,

279
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,500
huh?
Absolutely absolutely.

280
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And I think that's so important
that people reach out for help

281
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:11,900
because Because I mean, I was
really close to to to, you know,

282
00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:16,000
taking my own life and I was
very close to it and I know that

283
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,000
if I didn't reach out and ask
for help, I would have been in

284
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,900
dire trouble.
Yeah, yeah.

285
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,400
And as difficult as it is that
is the most important thing to

286
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,900
do to reach out for help.
And some people say, you know, I

287
00:16:29,908 --> 00:16:33,300
don't have family, I don't have
you know a tight friend I can

288
00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:37,100
ask but there's always always.
It might be a clergy member, it

289
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:41,300
might be a suicide hotline might
be the, ER, depending on where

290
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,700
you're at, you know, in your
depression, but there is

291
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:47,500
somebody and you need to reach
out and if you get a bad

292
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:50,100
response because some people are
like, well I tried and they blew

293
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:52,000
me off.
Well then you try somebody else.

294
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:52,900
Yeah.
You know, right?

295
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:54,900
Yeah.
So important, right.

296
00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:57,900
God's sake, don't?
It's not a sign that you're

297
00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:00,000
meant to die.
If that first person you you

298
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,900
decide to take a risk with
doesn't take it well or yeah the

299
00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:07,500
suicide hotline you know you get
Connected it like its it just is

300
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,200
a disconnection like don't try
to make it into something else.

301
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,800
And then in fact, in fact, when
I was in a really bad place, the

302
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,599
first person I decided to reach
out to essentially blew me off.

303
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,099
It was somebody who had worked
with, who was a coach of mine.

304
00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:23,099
And I said, you know, I'm really
in a bad place really

305
00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:25,800
struggling.
And it was really difficult for

306
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,500
me to reach out and the person
was like, you know, we have a

307
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:34,100
coaching relationship, we can't,
you know, taint that like and

308
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,400
and I was thinking like this is
the Positive person in my life.

309
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,000
This is why I'm reaching out and
I got shut down.

310
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:46,000
And that was really, really hard
but it didn't stop me from then

311
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,000
reaching out to others, you
know.

312
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,600
I think I might I might take it
for granted as as living through

313
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,700
that kind of knowing that so
often what people need is just

314
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,000
that save space just to stand
there and hear it right?

315
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,800
That person didn't have to do
anything but they couldn't deal

316
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,900
with that uncomfortableness
because I talking to someone who

317
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:13,000
is feeling like they are better
off dead, it almost it's so

318
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,500
unnatural.
It could be so uncovered for

319
00:18:14,508 --> 00:18:17,600
someone that's never thought
that it's just like it's a

320
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,800
mostly just can't deal with it.
They don't know what to do with

321
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,100
it.
So it's not a reflection on the

322
00:18:22,108 --> 00:18:25,300
person telling them what's up.
It's just that they just cannot

323
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:28,300
resonate or perhaps it troubles
them for something that they've

324
00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:30,700
never even like acknowledging
themselves, right?

325
00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:33,900
But, you know, it's but it's
about them, it's not about you.

326
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:37,100
So don't take it as a another
Lamb a judgment against you,

327
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:38,200
it's just that.
Yeah.

328
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,500
Just, you know, unfortunately,
you pick someone that just

329
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:45,000
wasn't capable of hearing it in
that moment at least, right?

330
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,800
Right.
And I tell people, you know, you

331
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,500
don't have to be a therapist or
a doctor to listen to somebody

332
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:53,400
and to ask somebody if they're
okay.

333
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,400
And to listen, you know, and to
listen empathetically and and

334
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,800
hear them out and offer support
and, you know, hopefully they

335
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,300
aren't in such a dire situation,
but you really have to listen

336
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,400
Listen closely and make your
decision of next steps based on

337
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,300
what they're they're saying.
All right, all right, and in

338
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:14,600
case someone is listening now
and is getting any sort of

339
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,600
triggering thoughts their own.
I just do want to share the

340
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,300
National Suicide Lifeline in the
United States.

341
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:22,100
One eight hundred two, seven,
three, eight, two, five five.

342
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:26,300
That's one eight hundred two
seven, three talk and and just

343
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:28,900
tell someone just get it off
your chest and stop ruminating

344
00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:31,000
about it because I found that
was the worst thing.

345
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:36,900
And I always felt better telling
someone how bad I felt Um, not

346
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:40,500
for the sake of like a drama
show, just just uh feeling that.

347
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,200
That a bit of the weight is
gone.

348
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,700
Is that been your experience?
Yeah, definitely definitely.

349
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,800
So it sounds like from even your
first episode that you could

350
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,400
tell the people you work with
and you were supported through

351
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:56,800
through both experiences both
episode.

352
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,700
So, it's interesting.
I told my boss and that was it

353
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:05,300
at work and I had no option.
I knew.

354
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,600
I need it off and I knew I
needed to tell, I guess I could

355
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,000
have just said I was sick.
I think I had only known him for

356
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,000
a few months, but we had really
bonded and I really trusted him

357
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,900
and shared with him and but I
didn't want anybody else to

358
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,700
know.
And it's really incredible

359
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:25,900
looking back, just how much
shame I had.

360
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:32,500
I walked up and down the aisles
of Walgreens our Pharmacy,

361
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:35,300
little drug store, I would walk
up and down.

362
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:37,600
Isles to make sure no neighbor
was in there.

363
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,500
Before I went to the Towner to
ask, like God forbid.

364
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,200
Somebody heard I was asking for
an antidepressant, right?

365
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:46,300
So I would walk the place and
make sure no neighbor was in

366
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:48,200
there.
And then I get home and I would

367
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,300
tear up the paperwork into tiny
little pieces as if somebody

368
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:53,700
might go through my trash and
see the name of an

369
00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:57,000
antidepressant like it's really,
really odd.

370
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,600
Or I went to a behavioral health
clinic that was, you know, not

371
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,200
too far from st.
Paul, where I work and I've been

372
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,600
in the school district since 99.
So, so I know a lot of people in

373
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:07,800
the in st.
Paul.

374
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:13,100
And it was a behavioral health
clinic, so I couldn't say.

375
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:15,600
Yeah.
If I bumped into somebody, I'm

376
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,200
here from my yearly, physical,
you know, I'm going to

377
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,600
behavioral health clinic, so, I
was tempted.

378
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,100
I asked, you know, do a lot of
people from st.

379
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:25,700
Paul, come here.
And they were like, yeah, and I

380
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:29,800
was very close to leaving my
psychiatrist because I didn't

381
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,900
want to bump into somebody who
might see me there a lot of

382
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:35,800
Shame involved.
And I think that's, Part of the

383
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:42,500
challenge of reaching out that
did, did you ever face the

384
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:46,200
stigma of it, or was it just
fear of the potential of, even

385
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,500
having stigma against yourself?
I think it was mostly the fear

386
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:55,300
of the stigma and avoiding
people, I mean, even when I was

387
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,700
at home, I wouldn't go out to
the store because I didn't want

388
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:02,700
to see somebody to have to
explain why I wasn't at work.

389
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:04,000
Right?
You know, you look healthy.

390
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,000
You look fine.
So, you know, I never and I had

391
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,800
already communicated with my
boss and he was supportive.

392
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:18,400
So I I can't really say that.
That I felt the stigma now that

393
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,900
you ask, but I definitely
believe there's a strong stigma

394
00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:24,100
out there.
I think it's still, you know,

395
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:26,300
and I think that's partly where
the shame comes from.

396
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:29,100
I think.
And a lot of people even Nami

397
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:31,900
has come out.
And said, you know, we shouldn't

398
00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:35,200
use the word stigma we should
use the word discrimination and

399
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,500
I have my own take on that.
I believe.

400
00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:40,500
If we could get rid of the
stigma, there would be less

401
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:42,600
discrimination.
So I think it's important to

402
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,500
talk about both because if there
was no Stigma, nobody would be

403
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:48,300
discriminating, right?
We would understand what it's

404
00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:51,900
about and we would have more
empathy for people just like we

405
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:58,100
do when somebody's out because
of cancer or heart disease did,

406
00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:02,800
have you ever looked at What the
shame was rooted in like were

407
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,900
you conscious of what you were
afraid of happening?

408
00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:10,800
Yeah, you know, I think for
whatever reason just a mental

409
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:16,900
illness comes with.
With the shame, I think many

410
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:19,800
people, I mean, I can't say
everybody has that, that would

411
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,900
obviously not be correct.
And I don't think I would have

412
00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:26,800
it again.
Luckily, I've only had the two

413
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,500
bouts of depression.
I've been, you know, mentally

414
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:33,700
fit for a long time but I
believe the work I'm doing is

415
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:36,900
helping to chip away at the
stigma by getting men to speak

416
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:41,600
about it, but I do think.
Yeah.

417
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,400
It's hard to say because like
whatever fear was You quiet then

418
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:48,800
has obviously been shattered.
Yeah, since you're speaking

419
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,400
publicly, you're doing your
podcast, I'm just wondering if

420
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,700
you ever like, you know have you
ever realized?

421
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:56,100
Oh this is what I was afraid
would happen but it I see that

422
00:23:56,100 --> 00:23:59,500
it doesn't happen.
Yeah I think the the mental

423
00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:04,700
illness for one thing just
impacts your mind in your brain

424
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:10,200
so much that that you can't
think logically.

425
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,000
You can't understand that this
is just an illness like cancer

426
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,900
or Thing else but I do think
also is the reactions.

427
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:25,300
Many people have you know if we
I mean I've been writing a Blog

428
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:29,100
as well also called the
depression files and I would

429
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:34,400
have a coat one of the teachers
who I work with know about my

430
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,800
blog and she'd come into my
office, she would still walk all

431
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,700
the way back by my desk and
whispered to me I read your last

432
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:45,300
post and I'd feel like it's not
a secret.

433
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:48,100
Even say that out loud.
Yeah, you know but there's still

434
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:50,600
this tendency that we don't
really talk about it.

435
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,100
We keep it a secret.
If somebody dies by Suicide you

436
00:24:54,100 --> 00:24:58,200
know you it's it's maybe a
little more common that people

437
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,000
are willing to share that and I
understand the difficulties also

438
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,400
because those sharing it isn't
that person.

439
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,600
But I don't know.
I just I do feel like the stigma

440
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,100
is still there.
Some of it is self-stigma like

441
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:13,500
your kind of pointing out the
fact that I didn't realize I

442
00:25:13,508 --> 00:25:17,500
wasn't really Discriminated
against, I didn't really, but

443
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,300
yeah.
So I think some of the stigma is

444
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:24,500
within and I think definitely
there are plenty of stories

445
00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:28,700
about people not getting hired
or getting fired and such

446
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:33,700
because of a mental illness, are
not getting the accommodations

447
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:37,400
that they would, if they had
another physical illness, right?

448
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,100
Yeah, I'm so I dealt with, with
depression Suicidal Thoughts

449
00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:44,200
From A really young age.
So, I kind of now, by the time,

450
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:46,000
In college I was like, I don't
care.

451
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,200
Like I'm it's my types of hide.
It didn't work, so I don't, I

452
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,800
didn't care who knew so I've
never really had to deal with

453
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,300
that as an adult.
I've been pretty open and

454
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,200
actually a couple years ago last
month on a job hunt, you know,

455
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,300
now job locations.
Like oh do you want to say that

456
00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:03,300
you have any sort of mental
illness for the sake of, you

457
00:26:03,308 --> 00:26:05,400
know, tracking and government?
I don't even know why I said

458
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,200
like, like should I say yes?
But like, well, am I likely to

459
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,600
be more hired?
Now they looking for the

460
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,000
mentally, it was like, what
should I do with this question

461
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,900
now?
So now it's like, as it totally

462
00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:18,200
flip Like they're trying to get
us, so it's yeah, it's really

463
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,400
bizarre.
But yeah, we always like to, you

464
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,800
know, ask people about what
their because I know that I've

465
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,400
discovered, you know, in my life
action cures fear, right?

466
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,200
Everything I used to be
terrified of now, I don't like,

467
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,800
oh my God, that this, this is
the thing.

468
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,300
I used to be totally afraid of
anyone finding out, and now I

469
00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:35,600
hear him talk about it all the
time.

470
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,600
And I just wondered if you've
had those moments of

471
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,000
realizations, you know, I think
like you said, now that I'm

472
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,900
talking about it and everything.
Can I have no fear of it and I'm

473
00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:49,200
trying to work at diminishing
the stigma.

474
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,700
But at the time, I certainly had
a lot of fear of people knowing

475
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:57,100
people finding out, I don't, I
think it was unfounded, you

476
00:26:57,108 --> 00:26:58,900
know.
It would be interesting to me.

477
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,000
I do not want to go through
another bout of depression, but

478
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,500
I am kind of curious, like would
I be able to share it and feel

479
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:09,200
the way I do now about others,
who are living with a mental

480
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,700
illness, or would I fall into
this shame again?

481
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:15,100
If depression fell, Pardon me
again.

482
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:19,300
You know, I really don't know
the answer and I hope I never

483
00:27:19,300 --> 00:27:22,300
know the answer because I really
don't want to get there again.

484
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:26,300
You know, I think everybody's
depression is very different,

485
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:30,000
right?
I talk to Men Who some guys or

486
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,700
people in general, right?
I just reference men because

487
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:35,100
that's who I've been
interviewing but people have

488
00:27:35,100 --> 00:27:39,000
different types of depression,
some live with, what used to be

489
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,600
called dysthymia, which is now
just called chronic depression.

490
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:47,600
And so it's a low-grade,
although they may disagree and

491
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,500
say no, no, it's not low, right?
But a constant depression

492
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,900
others, go through Cycles, some
that are easy to recognize the

493
00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:58,500
cycle.
So for example, sad seasonal,

494
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:01,600
affective disorder where it's
coming around in the winter

495
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,300
typically and those dark days
dark months and then they're

496
00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:10,300
okay until the next winter.
Some are going every few weeks,

497
00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:13,900
they had a depressive cycle and
some are just cycling on and off

498
00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:17,700
and there's no Pattern.
The the depression I have had at

499
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:23,200
least so far was a depression in
2010 and a depression in 2013.

500
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,600
They were both incredibly awful
and I would never wish them upon

501
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,400
my worst enemy which is part of
the reason I'm out advocating

502
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:37,300
but I feel really pretty lucky
to be the type of person who is

503
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:39,800
not cycling through.
But I'm also, I'm still on

504
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,500
medication, I'm still going to a
men's support group for Russian

505
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:48,000
anxiety every other week.
I'm doing the podcast on talking

506
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,900
about it and sharing about it.
I'm trying to make sure I'm

507
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:56,100
exercising more, so I'm
definitely in a different place

508
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:58,400
about watching for it and taking
care of it.

509
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,000
But I really, I feel lucky for
two reasons, one, I do feel

510
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,900
lucky that I've gone through it
because it really gives me a

511
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:10,100
different kind of empathy for
people with a mental illness.

512
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:13,500
And I certainly had some of the
very negative stereotypes that

513
00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:17,500
I'm Embarrassed to mention, but
will because I think it's

514
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:21,100
important like in my mind mental
illness.

515
00:29:21,100 --> 00:29:23,700
I would think of somebody
begging on the street for money,

516
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:26,700
you know, and I wouldn't even
think like why what might have

517
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:29,300
happened to them to get them in
that place, you know.

518
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:32,300
But that was one of my very
negative stereotypes.

519
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:38,100
So I think it has grown me
immensely with a different type

520
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:42,800
of empathy and I get to, you
know, like I said interview and

521
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,600
learn so much about Out it and I
really feel like I'm helping

522
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,900
people.
It's, it's an incredible feeling

523
00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:53,700
to feel like I'm doing good and
putting good out into the world

524
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:56,700
and supporting people and
hopefully saving lives and that

525
00:29:56,700 --> 00:30:00,000
feels really, really good.
So yeah.

526
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000
So I'm thankful that I went
through the depression and like

527
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,900
I said, I'm very thankful that
I've had two bouts and hopefully

528
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:09,800
never another one.
I've definitely felt that met.

529
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,000
A lot of people that do that
too, but could I have dared tell

530
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
you.
At in your first major,

531
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,900
depression, your home, your
can't work.

532
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,300
Cause I know there's gonna be a
day that you're going to be glad

533
00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:22,300
for this and all these great
things that come from it.

534
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,400
No way, absolutely not never
would have thought of never,

535
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,100
never would have thought it and
that's part of the reason, you

536
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:33,800
know I'm a huge believer in
support groups.

537
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,700
Like I said, I still go and part
of it is you get to meet others

538
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:42,500
who are there, right?
In a really deep dark place and

539
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:44,100
you get to support them, they
get to see.

540
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,400
See where people have come to
those who are feeling better,

541
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,900
and you get to support one
another and it's like instant

542
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:52,900
trust, right?
I walked in my first night.

543
00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:55,200
I went to the support group was
the night before I checked

544
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,600
myself into the partial
hospitalization program.

545
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,900
I walked through the door.
I cried for two hours in front

546
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:06,400
of like eight strange.
Men sharing my story didn't want

547
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,800
the two hours to end because it
was like the first safe space I

548
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,600
had ever felt and and I remember
just like bawling Then at the

549
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,400
end be like, is This
Confidential because again, the

550
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,800
same still creeped in, right?
Like nobody's going to say where

551
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,300
I work, do, you know?
So yeah, but support groups I

552
00:31:26,308 --> 00:31:30,400
think are really can be really
beneficial and usually there's

553
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,400
no cost, right?
A lot of people who are looking

554
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,700
for help, don't have the funds
to get a therapist in your first

555
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,500
kind of public outing of
yourself.

556
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000
Was it?
The podcast was the public?

557
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaking engagement.
What was the first big public

558
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,500
step for you?
Yeah, that's a great question.

559
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:53,600
So in, once I was healthy,
probably I bet a good two years

560
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,300
out or so.
I decided to share my story and

561
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:02,200
I I even thought about sharing
it with the staff I worked with.

562
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,200
But then I was like, you know,
this is going to become all

563
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,000
about me and really it's about
the work.

564
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,900
So I decided to create a blog.
I had never blog before decided

565
00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:15,100
to create a blog and I wrote my
story, that was the first entry

566
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:19,900
of my blog and then I started
like Googling my blog and I

567
00:32:19,908 --> 00:32:23,100
couldn't even find it like
knowing where it was.

568
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,300
So I was like, okay, well that's
not working.

569
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:31,600
So then I created a Twitter
account to my blog and started

570
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:35,700
writing more posting more and on
Twitter, really all of my

571
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:38,500
Twitter feed was essentially
trying to drive traffic to my

572
00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:42,600
blog and then I started getting
recognized by some people in the

573
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,400
mental health world and I got
invited to a conference.

574
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,500
And from the conference, I came
away from a conference.

575
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,700
It's an amazing conference.
That is for online Advocates of

576
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,600
chronic illnesses.
So it's chronic illnesses of all

577
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,600
types, it's put on by Jansen.
So I was a little nervous

578
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,000
because that is a pharmaceutical
to division of Johnson &

579
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,800
Johnson.
They pay for Advocates to get

580
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,100
together to come out to a
conference.

581
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,400
But The Advocates run the show.
They create, they invite the

582
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,000
speakers and they have big
speakers.

583
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,800
Twitter's there, YouTube's
usually, they're a lot of The

584
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,700
Advocates, present, and somebody
from their reached out to me and

585
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,600
said, hey, we We're trying to
ramp up our mental health

586
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,400
Advocates.
We have a lot for HIV psoriasis,

587
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,800
different stomach, illnesses
cancers, and we're trying to

588
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,900
ramp up until illness and you
aren't a shoo-in but we'd love

589
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:43,400
it if you applied and I applied
and got in and from that

590
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,800
conference and meeting all these
different Advocates was amazing.

591
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,200
And it's really kind of
interesting because there was

592
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,000
not a single session on a
podcast there.

593
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,600
But for whatever reason, I
walked get out of there with

594
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,700
this idea to podcast and through
a contact, I made their a

595
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,800
YouTuber.
She had connected me with a big

596
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,700
podcast or Paul Gilmartin of
mental illness, happy hour and I

597
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:10,100
reached out to him, and he was
so helpful.

598
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:15,900
He just fired me back.
A huge, huge letter of tips and

599
00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:19,300
advice for a podcast.
And then I started.

600
00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:22,199
I was so the that's how the
podcast came around and then I

601
00:34:22,207 --> 00:34:24,699
was really nervous to launch it,
right?

602
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,400
Like Started the way I started,
it's kind of funny.

603
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,199
I was like, okay, I'm gonna do
this, I bought two mics to

604
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:35,199
headphones, and I went to my
support group and where I go,

605
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,100
they had about 10 different
support groups.

606
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,800
So I asked if the leaders would
share what I was doing.

607
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:44,300
So I invited guys one at a time
down in my basement recorded the

608
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:47,500
podcast, and it was so funny.
My daughters would be on the

609
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:50,100
couch and someone would knock on
the door and they'd be like

610
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:53,900
another strange man coming over
dad nothing like, yeah.

611
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,300
And then Then eventually I
realized I was going to tap out

612
00:34:58,300 --> 00:35:00,500
of resources.
So I went to Skype so that I

613
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:03,100
could interview men from around
the world.

614
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:07,700
But what I did at first was I
had about six or eight episodes

615
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,100
created, before I ever launched
it.

616
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:14,700
And, you know, this little piece
of me was like if I never

617
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:18,300
launched it, nobody can critique
me, I can't fail at it.

618
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:22,000
Maybe I'll just keep it here.
It's been fun, but then all the

619
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,200
sudden on September 10th, I
think it is was world.

620
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:27,200
Suicide, Prevention and
awareness day.

621
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,900
And I had one episode that had
been that I had edited.

622
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:36,100
I was like, oh my God, if there
is ever a day to launch, the

623
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:38,100
depression files today is the
day.

624
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:42,600
So I just launched it then.
And now it's been about two and

625
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,100
a half years that it's been
going.

626
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:49,100
I publish every other Sunday.
And I have really, really tried

627
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:52,700
hard to get a very diverse group
of men, and it's been pretty

628
00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:56,700
incredible.
I have like, from an NFL player

629
00:35:56,700 --> 00:36:04,800
to an ER surgeon to War veterans
to a transgender male, all

630
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,100
different types of people, some
are Advocates themselves, some

631
00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:14,200
aren't I've targeted black men
at times, you know, so that I

632
00:36:14,207 --> 00:36:17,000
can get people of color on the
show and talk about their

633
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,700
experience, and then the
different mental illnesses.

634
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:24,400
It's pretty unbelievable.
Actually, I mean, from every

635
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,700
mental illness, you can Name.
I probably have had on the show

636
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,400
from didd dissociative identity
disorder, which is the old

637
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,800
multiple personality disorder,
bipolar one, bipolar to

638
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,900
schizophrenia schizoaffective
disorder.

639
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:42,500
Borderline personality disorder,
associative disorder, I just

640
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:48,100
like everything and like I said,
selfishly it's been amazing to

641
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:51,600
talk to these people and to
learn about everything and, and

642
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,200
to hear different, you know,
different perspectives is

643
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,200
another thing I like to Bring to
the table.

644
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:58,800
So I may disagree with somebody
but I'm going to let them share

645
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,400
their perspective.
If I really disagree with it,

646
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,700
then I get put in a bind where
I, I'll push back sometimes.

647
00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:07,900
And say, you know, I did Might
disagree a bit with that, but

648
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,600
but it's been an amazing,
amazing gig for me personally

649
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:18,700
and talking to so many men have
you come across any

650
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:21,000
commonalities and all those
different stories?

651
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,200
So, That's a great question.
I think the most common thing I

652
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:37,100
hear one is that a lot of men in
hindsight can pick out some

653
00:37:37,100 --> 00:37:41,100
clear symptoms.
They had as a kid that were

654
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:45,100
hints of Mental Illness but they
didn't realize it at the time

655
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,300
and maybe their parents weren't
to tune to it or maybe they're

656
00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:50,600
old enough.
Now that back then nobody talked

657
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,200
about it and just thought maybe
you were quirky or different.

658
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,000
I think that's probably the
biggest one and then quite a few

659
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,700
men with bipolar disorder.
I have found originally land

660
00:38:00,700 --> 00:38:04,300
with a diagnosis of depression
and then get put on an

661
00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:11,200
antidepressant which kicks off a
really, really powerful Mania

662
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:14,600
because of the antidepressant
and then they realize and get

663
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,300
diagnosed with bipolar disorder
because possibly, they had some

664
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:20,800
smaller manias and not really
realized it.

665
00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:24,900
So that's been a fairly common
one as well.

666
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,500
But the other thing I do and
that I love doing to is speaking

667
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:33,400
publicly, I was like you
mentioned I spoke a lot for Nami

668
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,800
speaking for Nam, he's been a
little challenging because it's

669
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,300
often during the workday and I
have a typical our hourly job,

670
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:43,300
you know, typical hours.
But I have spoken a fair amount

671
00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:45,100
on my own now and I love to do
that.

672
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:49,200
And I'm really the new thing
lately that I'm trying to speak

673
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,600
more about.
If there's any listeners who

674
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,800
want to hear more about it is
Everybody knows about the mental

675
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,500
struggles.
The mental health struggles of

676
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:03,700
the kids in education and we're
not servicing them as much as we

677
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:05,700
need to.
There aren't enough beds, there

678
00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:09,600
aren't enough doctors.
They need way more help than we

679
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,600
can give.
But at least people are talking

680
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,200
about them and trying to make
changes.

681
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:18,900
Nobody is talking about
Educators and I believe, even

682
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:22,800
before coronavirus came
particularly in an urban School

683
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,600
setting, like where I work.
Teachers are dealing with kids

684
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,800
who are going in and out of
complex trauma on a daily basis.

685
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,900
Kids are having behaviors
because of the trauma, they're

686
00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:37,800
experiencing, we are on the
receiving end of that trauma

687
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,800
often, often and teachers are
stuck in their classroom all day

688
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,600
long and they don't get a break
from it.

689
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,400
So, and it's well-known
secondary trauma, or compassion,

690
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,000
trauma, right?
And nobody's talking about it.

691
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,200
And I don't Know why?
But I think we're going to see a

692
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,900
lot more need for support for
educators because they are

693
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:03,800
burning out.
The job is stressful enough.

694
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,100
You deal with angry yelling
parents, you got administrator

695
00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:10,600
sometimes breathing down, your
necks doing formal observations.

696
00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:14,600
And then I don't know.
Let's say Elementary School

697
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,100
teacher has to rip a scissors
out of a kid's hand because

698
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:19,500
they're going for their own
neck.

699
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,900
And then, you know, they call
for support, we get the kid

700
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:24,500
away.
And then we're like, okay.

701
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,700
Okay.
Continue your math lesson.

702
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:30,500
Thank you you know and and we
have an EAP employee assistance

703
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:34,500
program so we do get for free
counseling sessions confidential

704
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,600
but that's a drop in the bucket
right?

705
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,600
And I think we can create a
better system of supports for

706
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,000
our Educators and that's
something that I would love to

707
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,800
develop and share with districts
because I think there's a huge

708
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,700
need and I don't know how many
more suicides and mental health

709
00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:54,400
leaves of absences we have to
wait.

710
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:58,100
Before somebody says yes, let's
look at the Educators.

711
00:40:58,100 --> 00:41:00,900
Let's figure this out and
support them more because

712
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:04,400
there's a dire need.
Just in our small building and

713
00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:08,800
and School District.
I've got plenty of examples and

714
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,200
I know we're not an anomaly in
the Twin City metro area in the

715
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,200
past two years, we've lost two
principles to Suicide.

716
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,900
The the suicide suicide rate for
men in the Twin City metro area

717
00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:24,500
in the past two years has gone
up 18%.

718
00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:30,400
So and the numbers Nationwide,
ER continue to go in the wrong

719
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,300
direction.
Yeah.

720
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,400
Numbers of suicides and suicide
attempts.

721
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,900
It's mind-boggling, actually,
the data was part of the reason

722
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:40,600
I decided to Advocate it was
shocking to me to see the data.

723
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:43,500
So tell me more about the, the
program for educators.

724
00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:45,900
What what does that look like?
What would that look like?

725
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:51,400
So I would love to be in a
position where I'm able to do

726
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,800
more research around it.
I think there are more companies

727
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,900
that are able to You more for
their employees than what

728
00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:01,100
educators are doing.
So I think there are many places

729
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:04,000
who are doing a great job that I
would love to try to emulate.

730
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:07,900
Some of my thoughts are like
across our school district.

731
00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:10,100
I think it's big enough that we
should have support groups.

732
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:12,100
We should have support groups
for our social workers.

733
00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:14,900
We should have a support group
for our counselors, the support

734
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:18,800
group for maybe rk3 teachers are
for 48.

735
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,600
Teachers are high school
teachers so they can share the

736
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,000
stories, the stories that
they're all dealing with.

737
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,600
They can see They're not the
only one who had a desk thrown

738
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,800
at on more a book whipped at
them, right?

739
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,100
And they can talk about how
stressful it is and be able to

740
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:34,600
get that off their chest.
Like you mentioned earlier, what

741
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,600
a relief it is to be able to
share some of that, right?

742
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,000
So that's one way.
I think we can do we've brought

743
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,300
mindfulness into our school for
the kids.

744
00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:48,000
I think we can offer some
mindfulness and meditation ahead

745
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,900
of time.
Before the school day some

746
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:55,400
optional courses for teachers.
We have brought in Therapists

747
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,200
into our own school for the kids
one grading day.

748
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:05,200
I had our art therapist open up
her room for any teachers who

749
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,600
wanted to go in and we did a
group session of art therapy

750
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,900
around the topic of self-care
and we only had about eight

751
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:14,900
Educators there, but the
conversation was amazing.

752
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,800
Like, they were sharing things
that I was just like, whoa.

753
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,200
I can't believe like one session
meeting and they weren't all

754
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,300
from the same grade or anything.
They weren't super tight.

755
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,300
But the things that came up and
came out, like, we need to be

756
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:30,000
doing those things on a regular
basis and those are just a

757
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,600
couple sample examples and those
are great.

758
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,100
Like those are those are such
low budget, things like that.

759
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:37,600
So budgets, not a barrier to the
think you've talked about there,

760
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:38,800
right?
Right.

761
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:41,900
I created a, I got a grant from
Health Partners and I created a

762
00:43:41,908 --> 00:43:45,700
self-care room in our building.
So there's a space, where

763
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:48,900
teachers on their prep can go
and there's like a shiatsu

764
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:52,200
massage chair in there.
There are iPods, I got with

765
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,300
headphones so they can listen to
Patient.

766
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:59,500
I did meditations or just music
and different things,

767
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,600
comfortable chair, where they
can recline, massager that.

768
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,400
You can change the head on so
you can give yourself a back

769
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,500
massage or rub your legs.
But, yeah.

770
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:13,400
So, I mean, I think there's a
lot we could do and I think it's

771
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,200
really, really needed after I
shared my story with the

772
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,900
administrators, you know, I had
people reaching out to me and

773
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:26,800
Tears like privately saying like
you just shared my story and we

774
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,200
have people struggling but after
I had shared I also asked the

775
00:44:31,207 --> 00:44:35,200
district a let me do more.
Now let me do more and really I

776
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,600
felt like the door was kind of
closed on it and I don't know if

777
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,800
it's like a liability thing that
they're worried about or oh my

778
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,500
goodness.
He said the s word suicide.

779
00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:47,400
What do we do now?
But they knew what I was going

780
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,300
to talk about.
So I was really excited and

781
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:54,200
proud of the district to let me
share my story.

782
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,900
Akley in front of 140, Public
School, administrators from our

783
00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:00,200
district.
I just, I want to do more and I

784
00:45:00,207 --> 00:45:03,900
think we need more for the
administrators and the staff all

785
00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:08,900
of the staff.
So you much Beyond people coming

786
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:12,200
and saying you just told my
story when they see you speak.

787
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,100
Is there a question?
You're asked, most often is

788
00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:17,500
something that people want to
know more about the the most

789
00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:22,200
often or as far as Educators go,
anybody any audience study like

790
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,400
what do you get asked the most?
You know, I think people are

791
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,100
just a lot of people are looking
for a quick fix.

792
00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:32,000
You know, how what do I need to
do?

793
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,000
How do I get better?
And really there's no quick fix.

794
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,800
Unfortunately and I feel like
our medicines are so far behind

795
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,900
compared to every other ailment
and illness and medical.

796
00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:50,400
You know all these new new
developments they come out with.

797
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,900
But still, our antidepressants
are take one and wait, six

798
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:55,000
weeks.
Weeks to see if they did.

799
00:45:55,100 --> 00:45:57,000
There's an effect.
And if there's not, we'll try

800
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,600
another one.
And then you wait, another six

801
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,900
weeks and of all the illnesses
to have a mental health, a brain

802
00:46:02,900 --> 00:46:07,600
disorder where you may be
considering aside, that's not

803
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,600
the one we want it meds to wait.
So I've been excited now that

804
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,500
they came out with s ketamine,
you know, some different types

805
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:18,100
which is a whole new class of
Phi classification of drugs.

806
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:21,800
So I'm hoping to see more more
kind of evolved from those

807
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,100
pieces.
But I do think people have to

808
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:30,500
create a tool belt of go twos
and I always say it takes time

809
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:34,200
and effort, but it definitely
takes effort to get better.

810
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,700
Like I do it's wrong.
If you think you can even just

811
00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:39,900
pop a pill and just wait for it
to get better.

812
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:45,900
Yeah, you need to do things like
exercise, like Journal, like,

813
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,500
get outside.
You know, there's a lot that you

814
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:54,000
can do to work towards getting
healthy, find a support.

815
00:46:54,100 --> 00:46:56,600
Group.
Go to a therapist and I

816
00:46:56,607 --> 00:47:01,000
understand some people frown
upon meds and, you know, I kind

817
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,800
of feel like to each his own.
I but my big thing about meds is

818
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,100
don't judge people.
Some people, you know, it's a

819
00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:10,400
difficult decision for anybody
to take a medicine or not.

820
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:14,200
That's going to have some kind
of impact on their brain, but

821
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,300
don't don't go pill.
Shaming people don't go bad

822
00:47:17,300 --> 00:47:19,800
mouth and Pete.
You people are making difficult

823
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,700
choices.
Yeah, and, you know, their works

824
00:47:22,900 --> 00:47:25,800
that is a stick.
Eggman that I definitely hear

825
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:31,100
from people who I think are
really not like really a tune to

826
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:36,000
mental illness to social justice
and anti-racism.

827
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,700
But some of some people who will
still say like, yeah someone so

828
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:43,500
didn't take their pills today,
you know, as if you know,

829
00:47:43,700 --> 00:47:48,200
they're acting crazy, you know?
So those types of and I do think

830
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,400
that there can be implications
too.

831
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:56,900
Language use like that because
that you know, if you say that

832
00:47:56,900 --> 00:48:00,100
in front of somebody who is
taking medicine, what does that

833
00:48:00,100 --> 00:48:01,200
say to them?
Yeah.

834
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:03,200
Yeah I get that.
Yeah.

835
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,500
They're if there is the it's a
different stigma and even people

836
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:11,200
that can be doing it best to
support people with mental

837
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,000
illness and yeah they can be a
whole oh you're doing that oh

838
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,200
that's the wrong thing to do and
that you know so but I was like

839
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,400
medication gave me nothing but
side effects.

840
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,100
But at times it was like, well,
at least I'm willing to take.

841
00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:27,100
If I had something, I'm gonna
take give me something.

842
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:29,300
I'm will like, I'm willing I'm
trying to do something.

843
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:33,400
So that was always me and my
family, saw it as a positive

844
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,200
sign if even if didn't help, I
was like willing to do something

845
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,100
and that was a good sign for
sure.

846
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:40,600
And I've heard a lot of men say
side effects, right?

847
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,900
So and then it's a matter of
maybe trying a different

848
00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:48,100
medication, right?
And it's weighing the benefit in

849
00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:52,500
the risk, right?
Like is your side effect Better

850
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:54,700
than possibly being suicidal,
right?

851
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:56,500
Is it a side effect that you can
live with?

852
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:59,700
That's okay, is it just dry
mouth, right?

853
00:48:59,700 --> 00:49:04,500
Or or is it a sexual deal and
you're trying to get pregnant

854
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:06,800
like, you know that.
So there are different things to

855
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:13,600
weigh out around side effects.
I've been really happy on the

856
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,300
medicine.
I have taken with, which I would

857
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:19,700
say, has zero side effects.
That I've noticed I do know that

858
00:49:19,700 --> 00:49:23,100
at first, the doctor told me.
For two days you're going to

859
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:25,200
experience.
I still remember exactly what he

860
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:31,100
said and I remember those days
dry mouth, dizziness and your

861
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:37,300
anxiety is going to Skyrocket
and for two days I like it's

862
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:41,400
really weird.
My anxiety was so so high but

863
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,900
now I'm like tuned into it.
So now that if I have just a

864
00:49:45,900 --> 00:49:49,300
little bit of anxiety that I
never thought of, I even had

865
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:53,100
any, but now, I can spot it.
Easily like, oh, there.

866
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:55,000
There it is.
I can feel it in my stomach, or

867
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,900
whatever it might be.
Because I think I was at such a

868
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:03,600
high level that I now am able to
recognize it more and, you know,

869
00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:05,600
another strategy that I use a
lot.

870
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,100
If I feel anxiety coming on,
I'll do the deep breathing, you

871
00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:12,500
know, three, deep breaths and
the breathing is awesome.

872
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,200
I mean, it can really, you can
change your blood pressure, your

873
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,500
heart rate so many things with
your breath and it's something

874
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:23,300
that you have with you 24 hours.
Hours a day, no matter where you

875
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:26,000
are or what you're doing, you
can take deep breaths.

876
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,100
So that that's our love, those
simplest things because it

877
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:31,600
could, you can be homeless, you
can have no resources and you

878
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,700
can master that skill.
Yeah, right.

879
00:50:33,700 --> 00:50:37,700
And so, yeah, it doesn't, it's
not a, there's not a means test

880
00:50:37,700 --> 00:50:39,700
to doing some of the things get
that can make everybody feel

881
00:50:39,700 --> 00:50:43,200
better, right?
And it's also important to to do

882
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,900
those things and put things into
practice when you're not at your

883
00:50:45,908 --> 00:50:49,400
lowest, because that's when it's
the hardest to do anything.

884
00:50:49,500 --> 00:50:53,100
So, to add something new, when
And when you're just, you feel

885
00:50:53,100 --> 00:50:56,600
like it's a huge deal, to put
one foot on the floor and get

886
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,900
out of bed.
And that's not, that's going to

887
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:01,800
be the hardest time to start an
exercise program or to start

888
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,700
meditating or even get to give a
crap and go search YouTube for

889
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:09,600
how do I do deep breathing?
So, solutely do those things.

890
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,700
Get into get into a gratitude
habit, journaling exercise, do a

891
00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:18,200
support group while you're
feeling at least good, if you

892
00:51:18,207 --> 00:51:19,800
have a history, like, do it when
you're feeling good.

893
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,500
So that the Downs are As down
there, not as Steep and not as

894
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:27,100
rapid and I would say the same
for going to a therapist, right?

895
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:29,100
It's okay to go when you're
healthy and you can talk about

896
00:51:29,100 --> 00:51:32,700
how rough it was and you can
create strategies with them and

897
00:51:32,700 --> 00:51:34,900
things that will help get you
out of it.

898
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,300
All of that is really talking
about building your resiliency,

899
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:40,400
right?
Your resiliency, your toolbox,

900
00:51:41,300 --> 00:51:45,400
so that you are prepared, right?
I'm really confident that I have

901
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,200
a lot of things in my tool belt,
that if I start feeling

902
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:51,600
depression coming on and I would
hammer all of them.

903
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,600
Be on my elliptical, you know,
while talking to someone from my

904
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,900
support group and you know, I
would be and eating some celery

905
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:04,400
all at the same time.
So with all that said, it is

906
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:08,600
there a book, a program, a habit
that that you, you know, want to

907
00:52:08,607 --> 00:52:10,500
share the most.
That that is kind of the go-to

908
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:14,800
suggestion to people, you know,
the breathing one that I

909
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,800
mentioned, I think is really
good.

910
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,600
I think I love journaling.
I journaled every single night

911
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,500
Through my depression more than
I had ever journaled.

912
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:28,900
And every night I ended my entry
with today in order to work

913
00:52:28,900 --> 00:52:32,100
towards recovery.
I and I put bullet points and

914
00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:35,600
that might have been literally.
I got out of bed, but I wanted

915
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,200
to acknowledge that I was
working at it, because I didn't

916
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,300
feel like I was.
So I made myself Journal about a

917
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:44,400
journaling is great.
I think picking up a hobby if

918
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,700
you used to play the guitar, but
you haven't recently, you know,

919
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:53,200
to have a hobby really helps to
focus on Something other than

920
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,000
ruminating, like, you talked
about.

921
00:52:55,400 --> 00:53:00,200
So a hobby is great.
And also, you know, exercise and

922
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,800
it doesn't have to be big if
you're starting to feel it.

923
00:53:03,100 --> 00:53:05,900
Try to go out for a walk.
I'm not saying a walk is going

924
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:09,800
to cure you from a depression by
any means, but it certainly is

925
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:14,200
helpful to get fresh air.
You get some exercise and I

926
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,400
think it's important to try to
keep up with your social

927
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,600
contacts to, you know, don't
like question yourself.

928
00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:24,700
If you start making excuses and
you aren't seeing your friends

929
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:27,700
at all anymore.
Question yourself like, why why

930
00:53:27,700 --> 00:53:30,500
am I not doing that?
Because that could be very much

931
00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:34,000
an indicator that you're
starting to isolate which is not

932
00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:39,000
good and depending on tend to do
that to go deeper in that we're

933
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,600
at a time when a lot of people
being forced into social

934
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,900
isolation.
So again, we're right now we're

935
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:48,200
talking on Zoom but everyone,
you know, if you have if you

936
00:53:48,207 --> 00:53:51,400
have a phone, you probably has
five apps that let you connect

937
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,000
with.
People besides just actually

938
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,300
calling them like the freaking
90s or something.

939
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:58,800
Actually make a phone call.
Yeah, but yeah.

940
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,500
I've been telling people these
days with coronavirus makes sure

941
00:54:01,500 --> 00:54:06,100
that you are also not just
texting but call and if you can

942
00:54:06,100 --> 00:54:09,700
zoom or Skype, you know, so that
people can or FaceTime so people

943
00:54:09,700 --> 00:54:12,900
can see you, particularly I
think a lot of the elderly are

944
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:16,400
even much more isolated.
Now, my mom is in an assisted

945
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,100
living place and they aren't
allowed out of the building, so

946
00:54:19,100 --> 00:54:21,100
she can't go out and they don't
even want him out of the room.

947
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,100
She said don't anybody tell on
her but she said she's walking

948
00:54:25,100 --> 00:54:28,000
the Halls at night just yet
exercise when nobody's around.

949
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:34,800
So you know yeah reach out and
but it is definitely a symptom

950
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,000
of depression is isolating and
it is not healthy right to just

951
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,500
hunker down on the couch and
make excuses to not do anything

952
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:44,600
else or just say you got to lack
of energy.

953
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,600
You it takes effort.
Yeah, even put in going phone

954
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,200
and just prompt yourself call
someone Zoom.

955
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,400
Someone connect with someone
even have Show up every 30

956
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,400
minutes and until you finally.
All right.

957
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,400
I'm sick of me bugging myself
and I'm going to take some

958
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,100
action right?
There's all sorts of techniques

959
00:54:59,100 --> 00:55:03,600
and tools but yeah I texting is
the worst means of communication

960
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,200
that humans have the more senses
you engage that makes it more

961
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,500
engaging so yeah.
Don't it sender and recipient

962
00:55:11,500 --> 00:55:13,100
this.
You can just read too much.

963
00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:16,500
You like your mood.
I think I speak for myself, my

964
00:55:16,500 --> 00:55:19,100
mood goes into a text so I can
read any message come to me.

965
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:21,600
I can read it as.
Oh you hateful about you know,

966
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:23,100
You're putting me down to what's
up?

967
00:55:23,100 --> 00:55:24,600
Oh how dare you ask, what's up?
You know what?

968
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,200
You know.
And and so it's horrible, like

969
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,800
our mood will interpret a text
message somebody for ways.

970
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,600
But if I'm actually seeing you,
we can look in each other's eyes

971
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,900
and communicate that it brings
back the humanity.

972
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,800
Yeah.
And you and we all have mirror

973
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,100
neurons we're meant to see each
other and feel each other and

974
00:55:43,100 --> 00:55:47,000
and be empathic and supportive
and now more than ever.

975
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:51,100
Everybody needs that if you're
absolutely if your mental

976
00:55:51,100 --> 00:55:53,900
illness is Being to blissfully
happy all the time, you know,

977
00:55:53,900 --> 00:55:56,900
whatever it is like, share that
with somebody, you know.

978
00:55:57,100 --> 00:56:01,700
Absolutely.
So you've got you've got a lot

979
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:04,800
of accomplishments.
You're doing a lot of good for

980
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,500
yourself for your family, for
your community, for your

981
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:10,700
profession.
What are you looking forward to?

982
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:14,200
Is there a big vision for the
depression files or for what Al

983
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,500
is up to next door?
You know, there's not really a

984
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:23,800
vision at times, I wish Wish I
could just do the mental health

985
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,600
advocacy, the public speaking
podcast, the blog and focus, all

986
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:33,000
of my work on that, so that may
be a goal down the line.

987
00:56:33,300 --> 00:56:35,900
But I still enjoy working.
In the schools, I still love

988
00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:41,700
will being around kids and you
know it's tough to because I

989
00:56:41,707 --> 00:56:46,000
have a stable job with a decent
salary and I get health care and

990
00:56:46,100 --> 00:56:48,300
wouldn't have that if I was off
on my own.

991
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,300
So I'm really enjoying how it is
it right now.

992
00:56:51,300 --> 00:56:54,700
It's a Mix.
I get the work, the school.

993
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:57,000
The kids get to utilize my
brain.

994
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,900
A lot in that job and work with
people and I get to come home

995
00:57:00,900 --> 00:57:04,100
and work on the depression files
and meet men.

996
00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:07,700
And, you know, even editing the
podcast and stuff, I feel like

997
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:09,900
there's a lot of creativity that
goes into it.

998
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:14,500
So I really, really enjoy where
I'm at right now with kind of

999
00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:17,400
both those two pieces in my
family of course.

1000
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:21,300
Awesome, awesome.
Well, what's the best way that

1001
00:57:21,300 --> 00:57:23,500
people Can can can find you get
in touch with you?

1002
00:57:23,500 --> 00:57:26,000
Find the podcast.
Yeah, thanks for asking.

1003
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:32,300
The my website is the depression
files.com, the depression

1004
00:57:32,300 --> 00:57:35,600
files.com, and there you can
find my story.

1005
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,900
You can find my blog, my
podcast, and then also, you can

1006
00:57:40,900 --> 00:57:44,100
find out how to reach out to me
if anybody does want some

1007
00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:47,000
coaching or public speaking.
I'm looking forward to doing

1008
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,500
more of that as well.
But yeah, they're all on that

1009
00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:51,500
website.
Cool.

1010
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:54,200
And you activate, you especially
active on in different social

1011
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,400
media platform than others are?
Yes.

1012
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,300
Thank you again, for asking, you
know, one piece of advice, I had

1013
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:03,900
early on was to really focus on
one social media platform.

1014
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:07,700
So I'm really quite big on
Twitter.

1015
00:58:07,900 --> 00:58:12,700
Twitter is definitely where I'm
tweeting a lot and so that is

1016
00:58:12,700 --> 00:58:16,400
where you'll find me.
I used to also have my tweets

1017
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,500
going to my Facebook account,
but the Facebook doesn't allow

1018
00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:22,300
that anymore or Twitter doesn't
allow one of I'm don't allow it

1019
00:58:22,300 --> 00:58:24,500
anymore that that broke
somewhere along that.

1020
00:58:24,500 --> 00:58:26,200
I'm fairly recently.
Yeah.

1021
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:30,400
So so I am on Facebook but not
nearly as much as Twitter and on

1022
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:38,200
Twitter, I'm just at Al live in
1811, 18 coins.

1023
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:42,400
And I love all the links and
social media contacts for a lat,

1024
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,700
the show notes for this episode
at real men field that org.

1025
00:58:44,700 --> 00:58:48,500
So if you missed anything, we
talked about go there and you'll

1026
00:58:48,500 --> 00:58:52,100
just be a click away to track
down L and And dig into the

1027
00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:53,700
depression files further than
this.

1028
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,600
Al, I want to, I want to thank
you, not for just being here,

1029
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:03,000
but for everything you're doing
and being well, first of all for

1030
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,600
asking for help.
Yeah.

1031
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,200
Like and receiving that, and
then sharing the fact that you

1032
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,600
got helped and that you're still
here and you're helping other

1033
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,300
people stay here too, right?
Yeah.

1034
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:15,100
Thank you.
Thanks for having me on the show

1035
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,700
you to Andy are doing incredible
work.

1036
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,900
Yeah.
Unfortunately, we're both

1037
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:27,000
needed.
Yeah, you know, I was a book.

1038
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,700
I wrote it, hit number one, in
the Amazon category for suicide

1039
00:59:29,700 --> 00:59:33,800
and I was like, Yay, gross.
I mean, why is this a category?

1040
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,300
So it's so I kind of wish we
were II.

1041
00:59:37,300 --> 00:59:39,700
Look forward to the day that we
are Obsolete and it has in the

1042
00:59:39,700 --> 00:59:41,800
message that we need to share,
but that's not today.

1043
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,800
So, right cool.
So, thanks again, L.

1044
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,500
Thanks everyone for listening.
Wherever you're discovering real

1045
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:50,000
men, feel, please give a like a
review.

1046
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,500
You subscription share it with
someone else and through this

1047
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:56,300
all through, whatever personal
Journey, you're going through

1048
00:59:56,500 --> 00:59:59,000
through the global Journey that
we're all going through.

1049
00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:02,600
Support yourself, support your
friends or your family.

1050
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,800
You are not in this alone, and
as always be good to yourself.

1051
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:09,800
Thank you for listening to real
men.

1052
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,000
Feel contact us at real men.
Feel at gmail.com.

1053
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:18,900
Learn more about Andy Grant at V
and E Grant.com, please

1054
01:00:18,900 --> 01:00:22,500
subscribe to this podcast and
leave a review on Apple podcast.

1055
01:00:22,500 --> 01:00:26,700
Google play Spotify tune in or
wherever you are discovering

1056
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:08,800
real.
Men feel, Thank you for

1057
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,200
listening to real men.
Feel contact us at real men.

1058
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,600
Feel at gmail.com.
Learn more about Andy Grant at V

1059
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,600
and E Grant.com, please
subscribe to this podcast and

1060
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:25,000
leave a review on Apple podcast.
Google play Spotify tune in or

1061
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,200
wherever you are discovering
real.

1062
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,000
Men feel,