The Power of Truly Showing Up: Embracing Humanity

0:00 Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel. I'm your host, author, coach and healer, Andy Grant. You can learn more about me at the andygrant.com. Real Men Feel exists to remind men that they have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men are not having, but that all men can benefit from. My guest today is Marcy Axelrod. Marcy is a best selling and award-winning author, TV contributor, Ted X, speaker and management consultant. Her latest book, How We Choose to Show Up, is an award-winning #1 bestseller based on over 20 years of research. How We Choose to Show Up presents nature's model for how humans are designed to show up and thrive. Marcy shares the gift that developing a stutter at age 6 brought her the three roles we are always engaged in and the three levels of showing up. Marcy tells us why 80% of people are just showing up. Action to take so that you can truly show up. And one thing she wishes more men knew. Let's do it.

1:00 Hello Marcy, and welcome to Real Men Feel. Andy, it is so great to be here and I feel that you have helped so many people on topics that are literally life saving. So the honor and the energy from you that I feel being with you is, is palpable. Oh, thank you so much for that. So you're an expert in showing up. What does that mean 'cause I know, 'cause sometimes I can, I can show up and I can and I'm showing up. You know, it's, it goes both ways. So. Yes, I will bring the book over. I'm ready. Wait here. Yeah. What is showing up? It's a great question because it's not what people think.

1:43 Most people think showing up is just walking into a room, right? You get off your couch, you show up. Nothing could be further from the truth. Showing up is existential. Showing up is literally the experience of our lives, and we do it in three roles at all times, not one. We're not just an individualized self, and what we do flows massively through others. So showing up is a choice of how to be in the moment that honors the individual, the situation, and the societal role that we all play it literally the world, every moment.

2:31 So is it? Is it very different than being present? Is being present in the moment mean you're showing up? No present is necessary, but not sufficient because present seeing leads you to the gates, but it doesn't really step you in. You need to recognize that behind how you present, you know, underneath how you, how we all present is our set of beliefs, is our thoughts, and is the attention system that we use to exist in that moment. We have two attention systems. That's the great Ian Mcgilchrist has explained to us, one of which makes you, Andy and everything out there a thing.

3:14 You're just a thing. You're the thing that I'm talking to, right? Ever, ever kind of walk through life and like someone's just a thing. You don't feel what they feel. You don't care. Everything is transactional. It's an abstraction, you know, right. So that's one way of attending, which is our left hemisphere dominated way, right? That's the like there's a rabbit in the Bush. I'm going to get it, I'm going to kill it, I'm going to eat it and bring it back as food, right? It's a it's a control over the other way of attending to the world. Andy, this is the one where right now you are changing me. I'm feeling you. There is a depth in your presence and I'm feeling it right here, right now through my nervous system.

4:01 And it just changed my breathing and it reset me because it is now reminding me that, Andy, what you and I are doing right now, it matters. People may listen, people may not, but the energy that we're putting out there, the fact that we are connected, that is what the right hemisphere let's us do. It's the only one that perceives anything new when we're just in get it done mode. What I call just showing up, right, it's level 2 and on our 123 scale that I will show you. When we're just moving through life and just showing up, we're largely in that left hemisphere mode. People are transactional beings.

4:48 We're not in that moment able to care. So I mean, presenting is important, but there's so much more there's. Do you understand the truth about showing up when you understand the belief system about how the world works, you presence very differently. And I'm going to you know, there all these graphs are going to be in the show nodes, but levels 1-2 and three of showing up barely there just showing up, which 80% of us do 80% of the time. And then truly showing up, which is your full choice to inhabit the moment with deep contact with it and, and, and the newness of it, the, the people who were there, the environment that's there, the much broader system. Physicists being fully present and really fully alive because you're, you're, you're engaged.

5:41 It's not just transactional. It's not just I'm surrounded by things and I'm just in this, in the world of nouns. Well, it's in all three of our roles, right? And you can't just be in a self role and truly show up. You're also in your situational role where you recognize the fullness of your impact, which also means you're in your societal member role, right? So we humans are only existing because of collective action, right? We only existed as a member of a tribe, right? The the individuals, the gazelles, right, who get left behind, the group are the ones who are victims and don't survive. So we only exist now because we're a member of society. So the is, it's more than what you were explaining. It's recognizing the truth about showing up, which is that you're impacting the world right now and that the kind of small, you know, perhaps invasive thoughts in your head are really not the ones to focus on.

6:43 That's living as a very small S for self. We're supposed to live in our big S self, right? It's the it's the self of Eastern contemplatives and indigenous people, peoples, and really the roots of almost every religion on the planet recognizes that we are deeply interconnected with something well beyond ourselves. That's the large S self. And I'm just dabbling on like what the model of showing up truly is. There's a model we're in. And this is what I believe is nature's model of how humans are designed to show up to thrive. This is not Marcy Axelrod's model.

7:24 This is nature's model. Overtime, it's going to evolve. It includes a lot of the wisdom that's already out there, but it puts it into a model that lets us understand and really get outside of those intrusive emotions that kind of Michelle Maidenberg was talking about, you know, trying to avoid and all these things. And we should talk about that 'cause there is no avoiding anyway. We're in three roles, self, member of situations and member of society, right? Each role has a skill. We can get into that grounding, readiness and connectedness with intent to serve. And there's always a level. Everything has a level of quality 123. If this is nature's model and we're we're meant to truly show up, why are 80% of the people 80% of the time only kind of showing up? Just showing.

8:14 We're just showing up. Level 2. Yeah. So there are two things I want to answer. So I'll answer why and then and then I'll kind of get at like, what we're really made to do because we're made to live along the continuum at all times and dance along that continuum. So 80% of us, here's the continuum I'm talking about. Why do 80% of us just show up? So you tell me what society teaches us all those lies. You have to be busy. You have to value things that are irrelevant. You, I mean, you have to book your schedule with stuff that doesn't contribute in the way that your soul tells you is the right thing for you to be doing on the planet. Should I go on?

8:58 We're constantly triggered with images and headlines that are meant to pull our attention, not nourish it. On and on. So society is designed right now to create the beings that we are. Unhappy, stressed, triggered. I'll. One of our three roles is is societal. Humans exist due to society, but society is also what's keeping us from truly showing up is giving us incorrect messages. The current incarnation of society is what has led to the illness we have now. Our planet's illness, our atmosphere's illness, our our own physical, mental, emotional, social, spiritual illnesses. That's exactly right.

9:41 And this is exactly predictable. Many, many cultures have gone through this demise before us. If you read book like Patrick Ofel's Why Civilizations Fail, I mean, you know, this has been done many, many, many times before, which is yeah. And I mean, this whole meta, meta crisis, right, where everything is intertwined. And Daniel Schmotzenberger speaks about it so, so beautifully. We all feel that if we don't stay on the rat race we're going to lose. So we have a tragedy of the Commons on many levels, including our own psyches and mental health. Has American Society ever had the majority of people truly showing up? Oh wow, I've never been asked that has American Society, so let me explain. Truly showing up isn't living in Level 3. Truly showing up is understanding how to live in Level 3 and doing your best because we're always moving through 1-2 and three.

10:38 Sometimes you just wake up and you're 6. Sometimes a loved one passes away and you're in barely there level 1 and you need to be there. You need to process those emotions and cry all day, right? So, so being in level 1 and and level 2, these are not bad places. However, ideally they're stepping stones toward being able to choose to be more right hemisphere focused such that we're feeling with and we're feeling for. We're not just two right people talk supposedly to each other and we're kind of doing all sorts of things. And we're not really, we're not like this and we're not like this.

11:25 So I want to be careful. Truly showing up is the ability to choose because you understand how nature designed humans to thrive. What attention system helps us to perceive anything new so that we're naturally engaged, fascinated, and caring. So before tech and when we were connected with the earth. So I'm getting back to your question, has has American Society ever been more of a truly show up culture? Yeah, absolutely. When we were more linked with nature and the land.

12:07 So, you know, less city based concrete, all of that when we were more intertwined with the with our descendants, our relatives, our families, the history, right, You know, last, the last name Baker and Carpenter and all of that. That's because that was our profession, right? So you kind of grew up with a purpose to continue the family line. The reputation of your last name was deeply meaningful. The moral code and structure by which people live. So all of these things, but kind of the big three are connection with nature, connected with something beyond ourselves being, be it a spiritual relationship or a familial sense of identity that grounds us.

12:59 Yeah, those are those are kind of the big, the big 3. And when you have that, you don't have this hollow seeking of, you know, there's an insufficiency in my life that I need to fill and I'm lonely and I'm miserable and I'm angry. Like that is those things don't really take hold the way that they do. Now, when you have that connectedness with something beyond yourself and you recognize you're not just a small S, right? You're the bigger self. So it sounds like showing up is kind of like a building with three floors and you we've all got an elevator and as long as you know that there are three floors to go to, stopping at any one of them is OK.

13:41 But if you're in the ground floor and you don't know that there are floors above you, that's the real problem. Love that. Interesting, yes, if you don't understand what it means to truly be ready for your situations. Right in your situation, memorable to be grounded in yourself role and to be connected with intent to serve in your societal role. If you don't understand what that means and the whole belief structure of acceptance that underlies all of this, yeah, you're you're you're not able to truly show up very often. I really want to touch on that acceptance, right?

14:21 The continuum, like because we are dancing along this every minute, every hour, every day, every decade, every beginning, middle and end, and, you know, across our lifetimes and our legacy, we are dancing along that continuum. And so is everybody else. So Andy, and so is everything else. Systems of social justice, the architecture of poems, right? Why don't they look more organic? Why do you live in boxes with right angles when there's no true right angle on the planet or in the universe, right? Your school system, your job, you know you were into videography, right?

15:04 For a large company, Cisco, When you, when you think about how is Cisco showing up? How is its brand showing up? How how do the machines that it builds on this planet serve right? So everything shows up. And because of that, there's there's this acceptance system that's naturally built in, right? One leaf doesn't criticize the other for becoming a deeper red in the fall. We aren't here to do any of the kind, right? So I want to kind of get these core concepts out there in response to what you were saying about, you know, levels. Yes, there are levels, but there's there's also a tremendous contentment and release that comes from understanding the truth about showing up and letting everyone show up for who they are in the moments. Is is there a natural way that individuals progress from just showing up to truly showing up?

16:16 Or must it be you know it's only the result of reading your book or attending some sort of training like. Yeah, there's a, there's a natural progression. I mean, as you practice things, you can start to default to them, right? This is what learned the, the normal path of learning, right, is something can seem effortful and then over time it's less effortful and you and you start to do more of it more often with less effort. And I actually have a chart at the very beginning of my book that talks about what, what happened when we're showing up, when, when we start to practice showing up and it, and it basically shows that over time we kind of start to default, like by nature to a higher level of showing up.

17:01 And then things are just smoother. You know, relationships deepen, contentment deepen, addictions have less of a biting hold on us. Yeah, this is the chart, how showing, and I call it how showing up improves performance. I don't know. I get that or anybody can see it, how showing up improves performance. Bottom line is life, instead of doing a lot of this and you know, with emotions taking hold and pulling us, we can feel the emotion and just sit with it and reflect on it and not be ruled by it and then have a choice. How am I choosing to respond? Right.

17:43 And again, so the notion it's choice, there's multiple levels it it's it's fluid. Someone doesn't I've I'm truly showing up today and stay there. You know, let me address that if, if I could, you know, fully showing up when you've gotten a great series of nights of sleep, when you've had good nutrition, when you've gotten enough, you know, physical activity in motion. You know, when a lot is in place, it's going to be easy to kind of truly show up. But then there's a point where you need you just you know, you've, you've you've paid deep attention for a long time and your brain needs you to go take a walk around the block, right?

18:24 And you just, you just use just showing up and just kind of being and letting it be as a way to rejuvenate, right? Because every, hmm, every situation, every societal role doesn't require or perhaps even benefit from you truly showing up in in every activity. Yeah, yeah. I mean, life. Life is an impromptu dance. It just is. And people often ask me, they say, Marcy, I can, I can, like, prepare myself. I can ready myself for my moments, OK, But just like any good plan, the moment it encounters reality, it flies out the window, right? So they say, how do I prepare to default for like an improvisational dance?

19:15 That's at the level that I want to function as a parent, as a leader, as a friend, right? And the answer that I give is the more you think through and reflect on the truth about showing up, what are the beliefs that underlie it, right? What is the broader system, the more it's effortless and you just naturally start to default to Level 3 truly showing up. But it's really, you've got to reflect on what do I believe about how the world works, right? Is there one VP slot? And either, you know, Joe gets it or Jane gets it and that's it.

19:55 Is that really the way things work? So I am, I'm against the system, I'm against this person. No. So there's a lot of things that get in the way that once you kind of read the book and start to recognize it, it just starts to show up. Goodness starts to show up for you and as. You mentioned one of the benefits of of truly showing up is improved performance. Absolutely. And is that just in everything you do? Is it primarily the workplace? Like what? What else? What? Why do I want to truly show up everywhere? What's the benefit to me? You know, Andy, I'm so going to ask you, well, you tell me is who you are and how you show up.

20:36 You know, it's only when you're looking this way, but it's not when you're looking that way because like the workplace is over here, but your relationships are over there. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't work that way. How you show up is how you show up. I mean, granted, it, it may be that your spouse or teenage kids aren't in the workplace. So maybe showing up in the workplace may seem easier or lighter. But the truth is what underlies our behavior and our belief system about how the world works that goes with us everywhere. So the more you truly you're capable of kind of invoking this right hemisphere way of living to truly show up, it'll help you in everything. And I've heard you mentioned service a number of times. So is is being of service part of that societal role or or or is it and is being serviced more when you're truly showing up? Yeah, so the the big S self is the interconnected giving self. So it starts to merge with our societal role. And of course the point of contact with reality is our situational role.

21:53 So the orientation of taking that mirror, that self mirror doing this, I mean, it orients us naturally across all of our roles into being of service for the greater good. Doesn't mean you quit your job and go spend your life building homes for for Habitat for Humanity or some other giving thing. It doesn't mean that you have to take all of your your life that way. But what it does is in everything you do, you are recognizing that it is insert. Everything we do is in service of others. Let's let's think about that. So let's just put that lens on everything and all of a sudden you'll start to show up differently.

22:37 And you've said that this isn't something that you created. This is this is a nature so and I know you've done years of research in this. So how, how did you, how and why did you end up being focusing on on showing up? Yeah. So at age 6, when my family moved from Baltimore to Boston, you know, everyone was busy and little Marcy there had to raise my hand and say, help, No one's paying attention to me. So what actually happened is my throat started to lock and I started to stutter and I couldn't show up as I wanted. And I became an endless disciple of studying others. How are others showing up?

23:18 And why are they showing? They're throwing their show up choices away. They don't recognize, you know, and what I mention is, you know, and there's this vivid image of mine in line on the blacktop, you know, to play Foursquare outside my elementary school. And there was this bully in the a square, this popular kid who was slamming everybody out in, in the line where all these other kids and they were like, Oh my God, I'm going to get slammed out again. And it's awful for me and everyone's going to see it. And I said to myself, why? The bully isn't thinking about how he's showing up. The other kids aren't thinking about how they're showing up. The educators aren't coming over and telling the person in the, in the a, a square, if I see you slamming kids out, you're going to have to go and get, get online again, you know, because that doesn't, that doesn't support the game. You know, it doesn't support the system of what we're all doing here of learning to relate anyway. So that's how it all started.

24:17 And then I just started to devour psychology and neuroscience and philosophy. And then I became a strategy management consultant and started to do global studies about how companies achieve and what creates an effective workforce. So just put it all together. Cool. So we're still early in 2025. So, so are there are there concrete steps, recommendations that that people can, you know, make this the year that they, they truly show up, if not for the first time, but more times. Right. Yeah, yes. And I'm going to structure this for you. I'm going to give you physical things, I'm going to give you emotional things and I'm going to give you beliefs.

24:58 The physical thing I want people to do when you, and this will have a huge impact when you wake up, the moment you wake up, pause. Don't just let the consciousness return and then jump into action because what we want to do more is be, not do. And what's going to happen? Maybe you sit up in bed, you're naturally going to do something first that's different than you've done before. And when you do one thing that's new, the next thing that follows is new and the next and the next, right? For for those listeners who have seen the famous video by General, I want to say McCracken, make your bed, right?

25:47 He starts out, one thing leads to another to another. So when you wake up, pause. You'll do something different that'll lead to a trail of things that are that are different. And what you likely will do is you'll notice. Noticing is a huge part of truly showing up because everything is new. But we don't notice that it's new because from our left hemisphere, the past just shows up. All it's doing all day long is, Yep, I've seen it before. I've seen it before. He's going to say this and she's going to say that. And I, I don't need to look over there because I know what's over there. And OK, you'll start to notice. Maybe some gratitude will show up. Wow, my partner is so thoughtful of me or wow, I've got those kids upstairs or of a roof over my head or wow, I'm not feeling pain or wow, I'm feeling a little bit of pain, but it's not as bad as it used to be, right?

26:47 So that's the physical thing. Pause. First thing, the belief system thing that I want you to recognize you are impacting the world at every moment. I have the science in my book to to talk about that. It is absolutely massive. Recognize that. So the belief system, everything you do matters. So you must choose how you're showing up. The emotional thing, when you are with another person, look into their eyes and you will feel them. And I want you to emotionally notice how your body is showing up for you, because what you're going to suddenly feel is care.

27:38 Care is the center of showing up. It is how we are designed. We feel others in an instant, even when we don't see them. From a one second touch to a forearm, 68% of the time people guessed what a stranger they can't even see is feeling. That's the work of Dacre Keltner at the Greater Good Science Center, University of UC Berkeley. Anyway, so #1 when you wake up, just pause and see what shows up for you #2 when you're with someone, feel what they feel. That's care.

28:24 And then the third thing is know that you're impacting the world at every moment, so choose how you show up. And doing those three things, Yes. Is it even possible to barely show up that day? Across the day, Sure, but you will probably show up more as you choose more often. What makes someone, well, maybe it is is is if if someone falls into just showing up or barely showing up, is it always in response to to circumstances or is it other other other causes? We naturally just show up in today's world because we're so on on the go.

29:06 OK, so it's all the, the, the, the messages, the busyness, all, all of the stuff that's already mentioned is what's what keeps people in there. So our behavioral patterns today are far more oriented toward level 2 just showing up then to having a calm nervous system that brings us into a presence, seeing in the moment with a with an attention system of noticing the death and truly being with also doing this non judgmentally right. Don't interpret, just feel what is there because the moment you interpret, you've actually let you aren't even in the moment anymore.

29:53 You aren't there. You are in some assumption, some bias, some I can get that. That's what this means they're for. That's not what's really going on. So what societal changes need to happen to encourage more of us to truly show up? Oh wow, Oh my goodness. Well as well we are that change. The more often we can truly show up, even if it's just a few more seconds a day, we will shift society. The specific societal changes that need to happen is more of us need to recognize that the small S self that we're living in is just a total farce. You know, call it an ego, call it an I. I mean, it is.

30:38 It is a real danger to the health of the world and the health of us and the legacy of everything we leave behind. We don't want to teach our kids that, you know, hey, you're #1 let's go get back to #1 let's go think about what's most important. You know, that messaging is horrific. If we thought that way when we evolved, we wouldn't be here. Like what other support do do we need to recognize like, wow, that's the thing to change. We are situation members and we are societal members at least as much as we are individualized selves. And Andy, what's really important is distinct does not mean separate. The loneliness epidemic that's out here. The fact that our surgeon general wrote a book not about obesity or cancer, he wrote a book about loneliness. It's called Together.

31:34 So that is because we're misunderstanding what the self is and we're totally missing the other two roles that we're in. We're in three roles. Let's not forget that. It's core to showing up. And we're in those three roles all the time. Even even if I'm alone at home, I'm there's a societal role still existing for me. Oh my word, absolutely. You're the fact that you're choosing to wear clothes, the fact that like what you're doing, your heat's probably on. You're, you know, you, whether you've got a book in your hands, you've just pulled through a six continent or seven continent supply chain, you know, you can never not be in your societal role because you exist. When we were indigenous humans living in caves, we were still in these three roles. They have always been there and so is everything that tree that I'm staring at right now, that tree, think about it. It's in it's an individualized tree. It's in the ground.

32:33 So it, there's a situation going on. It's blowing in the breeze, it's absorbing sun, it's giving off oxygen. So, so it is very much in a situational role right now, but it's also in a societal role. Its roots are interlinked with with, I mean, I think the latest research is all the trees on the planet and it's giving off messages. Oh, I've been infested by this kind of bug to the trees around it so that they create a certain toxin for the bug so that so that all the trees around, don't we? So everything is in those three roles. And thank you for bringing that up. This is fascinating and really deep. So is, is, is, is your working book target? Are you targeting businesses, management, you know, regular people at home?

33:30 Like what? What? Why did you? Why did you do this? You know, it's interesting because literally the chief speech writer for George Bush was one of the editors of my book, and she very much wanted me to Orient the book at the level of society as the main thing. I find that you got to meet people where they are. Yeah, who? Who's the target? Like who? Who's this intended? To help, I Orient the book at the end of the level of the individual, but I very much talk about the person as a parent, as a manager, as an executive, as as a leader of society, as a creator. Are there concrete practices beyond just the three tips you shared earlier?

34:11 Are there concrete practices that help people? Oh my, my goodness, yes. The book is filled with them. It's filled with real world examples. It is filled with real world quotes. It is filled with, you know, details of the 20 years of research. So it is, it is very scientific. The book is very much quoting research that I've done and that other people have done. So it's, it's hard hitting, it's heavy hitting. And I've got a whole chapter of recommendations people can pick and choose. Meditation is absolutely the top of the list. Anything that leads us to reflect, to pause journaling, absolutely huge. If you can see a a therapist or have some kind of therapeutic relationship where you can be vulnerable, absolutely huge. By the way, authenticity is also a core of showing up because when you accept that you're moving up and down the continuum at all times, guess what?

35:04 You're vulnerable. You can be authentic, it just happens. Why? Because it's our nature. It's not our nature to have to prove ourselves every moment, which is what society teaches us. And that's what leads to the four issues of feeling lesser than feeling better than feeling I need to be seen as or feeling I deserve. Those four things, they just dissipate. They fly away. Once you understand the truth about showing up because you recognize you're connected to everything, you're impacting the world. Your intuition really is truth. And just life becomes more of what you want, who you want, and how you want.

35:51 Awesome. So in all of your research in the book, in showing up or beyond it, is there anything that you wish more men knew? I love that question more. Men. So showing up transcends gender, it transcends ethnicity, it transcends religion, it transcends ability level. All these things that we often use to divide us, showing up functions at the level of humanity. So what I would tell men is think about yourself as a human being first. That is what's most important. Don't listen to the programming that's out there about who and what you're supposed to be because of your genitalia. That is not what matters.

36:44 Learn the truth about showing up, about how we're supposed to function, and I think you will be much freer to be who you're truly meant to be. Excellent. So Marcy, what's what's the best way for people to find out everything you're up to and learn more about the book? Where? Where should they go? Yeah. So the books on Amazon just put in Marcy Axelrod or put in how we choose to show up my website choose to showup.com. Thanks for more than just being here with him, but thanks for all the research. Thanks. Thanks for caring six years old to to get and to not just help yourself but to help everyone around you and embracing your societal role.

37:26 Oh goodness. You know, it's a calling and I want people to hear this, Andy. Most people don't know a specific purpose of why they're here. In fact, it's like the the P word, right? Research at at Stanford show that 80% of Stanford students, they get, they kind of go like when you ask them what's your, your purpose and like, what are you going to do when you're done here? Anyway, the point is, for me, this is a calling, right? It's not work, it's not a job, it's not a career. It's a calling. I'm truly meant to do this. And it was the gift of the stuttering. I think a lot of us have pain.

38:07 And you got to ask yourself, what's it teaching me? What's, what's the path right through the pain? So I was called to give to Ted talks and be on a global stage because I couldn't speak before, right? And I want that message to be out there. There's a reason for for this. And it's forcing us to develop a skill. And what's the skill? And that's what we're supposed to be doing, right? You are doing that, Andy, with your life and with your joy. Where did your joy come from? Right? You earned your joy through what came before it. That's a good point. And I want to go journaling.

38:48 Where's my joy coming from? Where did you? Where did you start? I feel it. You're. Yeah. But I, I didn't, I I have because I didn't, I definitely didn't always have it. That's that's why I like. Yeah, well, it was covered with some other things. Let me ask you. So how does showing up compare? You've had a lot of guests. These guests are important people who are doing meaningful things, right? I mean, everyone's important. I've got to be be careful with that word. But you've, you've chosen them because they've, they've contributed in ways that you wanted to amplify how does showing up and, and how I think compared to what other people are talking about.

39:29 Oh boy, that's some tough analysis because I, I sometimes, I don't have many, but I sometimes have guessed that I don't agree with. I, I have guessed to, to open my horizons and viewpoints. And so it doesn't mean everything. Yeah, I agree with or everything that's ever been shared in a show. But it's a very holistic, it's, it's very putting together lots of pieces. Like so many. I feel like I'm on a string of like maybe six or seven shows where the importance of knowing yourself shows up, the joy and service keep showing up. So, yeah, it's this, this. And again, 'cause it, it's nature.

40:09 So it makes sense that everything that we're talking about is in this is in this model because it's how we're meant to be. Yes. Oh, I love that there's a system and most people live in parks. The left hemisphere sees about 3% of the whole picture that's out there. So showing up naturally, you know, it gives you the rest of it. And often suffering is because we're down a little full. We've we've carved off the rest. And what's showing up does is it puts it back together for us. Again, thanks so much for showing up today. Thank you, Andy. I appreciate you. Thanks for joining us, everybody. Please visit Real Men Field at org See the blog post for this episode.

40:51 We'll have all of various links and resources discussed. Wherever you're discovering Real Men Feel, please subscribe, like, follow, share this episode with someone, post a review or a comment. If you want 2025 to be your best year yet, I invite you to book a free Clarity call with me and we'll explore what you want and what's in your way of getting there. Is it the andygrant.com/talk? And until next time, be good to yourself.