Uncanceled: Love, Lies & Legal Trouble with Ghasan Alesayi

0:00 Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel. I'm your host, author, coach and healer, Andy Grant. You can learn more about me at be andygrant.com. Real Men Feel reminds men that they're human beings and have the right to experience and express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most men are not having, but that all men can benefit from. My guest today is the San Alasi. The San is an actor and filmmaker in Toronto who recently reached out to me. He wanted to work on his fears and insecurities when it came to approaching women. He ended up hiring a dating coach who had him approach a number of women on the streets. On one occasion, a police officer saw him talking to a woman while another man was lurking nearby, and he thought something must be up.

0:44 Arrests are made, charges filed and reputations ruined as the San finds himself canceled. Let's get to his story and lessons learned. Hello Ghassan, and welcome to Real Men Feel. Hey, thanks for having me, Andy. You actually emailed me the beginning of August and I've got it right here, so let's see. You said. I've been through a roller coaster journey, faced with false legal accusations, public scrutiny, and accepting my mistakes while trying to become a better man. And you ended up saying. But I would love to sit down and chat with you about how my legal and personal challenges have allowed me to have a fresh perspective on how men need to be brave when they use their masculinity.

1:27 So that's how you landed here. Yeah. Before we dive into what's happened, what makes you want to Share your story publicly? I think it's very timely. When this happened, the first thing I thought about, well, after all the trauma and emotions, first thing I thought about was how many other men are going through similar struggles and frustrations right now and confusions. And the problem that I've seen, especially in in my personal life, is friends going on to some of the darker sides of masculinity because of their frustrations. And I know that's really bred from the the confusion that's out there. So I really wanted to to share my story as a way for other people who are just as confused to take a look at this before they go into something that might be a little bit more dark. OK, so tell me about your life before the roller coaster. Yeah, for sure.

2:32 So before the roller coaster, I so I'm an actor, I'm a filmmaker. I've been in the industry for the past 10 years here in Toronto. I've lived a very social life as far as anyone can tell. So I'm very extroverted. I, I, I, whenever I'm, my friends used to say whenever they put me into a party, it's like, oh, we don't have to worry about him. He can go and have a great time and we don't have to stay near him. So I, I knew this about myself, but one of the things that I started taking a look at prior to this roller coaster is I had, I was at a fork in the road where I could continue working on more creative in my life and really just bunker down and stay in my room and really just write every single night. Or I could really take this moment to develop myself. Because one of the things that I started realizing over my life is I had these moments where I had an opportunity to connect with someone, whether it's somebody that I knew or somebody that I wanted to get to know.

3:38 And I was allowing fear to stop me. And it was a fear of one rejection and then #2 being vulnerable with someone. So when I took a look at this as a whole, I started realizing I'm not really living an honest life. I was going from point A to point B throughout my day and running into people that I wanted to talk to and not really socializing. Part of that was also women as well is I'm living in Toronto, I've, I see attractive women all the time. And I was always like, how do I just go up and say hi? And is it OK for me to say hi? And there were so many moments where the opportunity was there, things were, were getting kind of warm and I still didn't go for it.

4:22 And it was again, sense of rejection that that just kept coming in there. So I decided to, before anything, jump into therapy to to really understand these fears and really I try to understand myself a little bit more before I start trying to understand other people. So when you speak about being social and being an extrovert, was it more just of a surface level? You you weren't making deep connections. You weren't really opening up. Yeah, so I wasn't really opening up with with some of you people. I thought I were, I were close friends, which was kind of weird to me. But then also in moments when I would just try to, when I was just by myself, I, I wouldn't go out of my way to start a conversation with someone. I would never initiate a, a conversation with somebody out in the wild.

5:15 And it's it, it's funny to me saying this because any friends who probably hear this are confused as all hell because they see me and they're like, you're the most extroverted person I know. How do you have this problem? But that's something that I wanted to explore with therapy. And and how did therapy go for you? It was great. So when I went into therapy, the very first thing I, I did was tell my therapist what I was there to work on. Specifically, I told him I had a fear of intimacy with women. I, I had a bit of shame around sex, had a fear of being vulnerable and fear of rejection. And I, I wanted to, to create a 2 pronged approach to this one where I wanted to analyze myself so really dig deep into where these things come from.

6:05 But then #2 I set up my own social plan of what I wanted to do to get more connected with the world and really live my most authentic life. And I wanted to let my therapist know what I was planning ahead of time. So I would say challenge this week, but ask 5 people for the time or ask them for directions. Very simple task. What are the emotions that come through? So I would let him know that's the task. And then we'd come into the session and we discussed that first. So I would go like, these are the things that came through my mind. These are the thoughts that came through my mind. And then we'd analyze where that came from and if if there's an actual source to all of these insecurities.

6:48 And that was successful. The second part of that question or answer is there was some success to that. So I was able to dig deep with my therapist and find the roots to, to some of the causes or I guess the thoughts and feelings. But where it it where I ran into more problems is I I started overthinking things a little too hard. And it kind of became this feedback loop of trying something, thinking about the thoughts that come up, bringing it to therapy, and then just kind of getting in a cycle where I'm overthinking every single thing I was doing instead of just existing. Yeah, 'cause it sounds kind of surprising to me because you did make all these social experiments for yourself. So it seems like you're really, you're really a man of action. But then even with all this action, you still got trapped just kind of ruminating on everything. Is that is that the scenario?

7:49 Yeah, 100%. And, and, and something that was great about the whole therapy experience as a whole was I was able to identify the different voices in my head, so to speak, that I did not otherwise know knew existed. And it's like just these regular thoughts that go on through my day. But once going through therapy, I started realizing, oh, they're actually sides to me that are very toxic. And there are sides to me that want to get out but are afraid. And I, I, it was, I remember there was this session I had with my therapist where we discussed, it felt like everybody was trying to grab the microphone in my mind. And we were discussing how it was like, OK, we've got to find a way to get everybody to work together. So that yeah, so there were successes to it, but again, definitely some some pitfalls that I didn't see coming. All right, so therapy sounds you you learned it wasn't perfect, but you were learning you're growing. So we're still still sounds like it's pre roller coaster. Yeah, still pre roller coaster and and still something that I do to this day.

9:02 I'm not somebody who rejects therapy at all. I actually do think it's a superpower. But I think where I was lost in it was the growing pains of trying something new. And I was equating that with my own failures as opposed to or, I'm sorry, failures of the process as opposed to just a transitional moment. So So what came next? So what happened was I started getting in my head, especially around dating and I, I'm sure if, if anybody, I mean, I, I don't know if you have before, but if anybody's tried cold approach before, I'm like walking up to somebody and saying hi.

9:44 You know, the how nerve wracking it gets, whether it's to another man or to a woman, there's still that same level of fear. And I was trying to get rid of this fear so much, not realizing that it's innate enough as humans. So I decided, you know what I am, I really do have a problem here. I'm not really understanding how to get over this fear and I'm not understanding the flirtatious side of of interacting with women in this kind of scenario. So I started talking to some friends. Friend of mine had seen a dating coach and told me, hey, like, yeah, you put in a good amount of money, but it does change your life.

10:28 So I started shopping around to see if somebody could help me out, realize the dating dating coach market is incredibly expensive and decided to go with someone who was more in my budget but not somebody I I trusted with their content. It's not only in hindsight did you really meet this person. Go. I don't trust you, but I'm hiring you anyway. Yeah, throughout the entire process, like I checked out his website, I had a couple of interactions with him back and forth through various sites, so Reddit and and WhatsApp. And the entire time I was like, this is red flag, red flag, red flag.

11:11 Don't do this. It's funny, I was actually going through a lot of my notes because through this entire process, I was rigorously taking notes And one of them was stream of consciousness journaling and found my stream of consciousness journal a few days before hiring this guy. And it said do not trust him. Trust your instinct. And I, I wish I, I, I listened to that voice. So you ignored your instincts and and you hired this dating coach. Correct. OK. So he told me about the process. I was aware of what the process was. Essentially he wanted us to walk around downtown Toronto and he would, it was a three day session and he would essentially point out woman, say go talk to her.

11:54 I would go and he would film and record the interaction. So then we can later review the footage and see where things are going wrong, where things are right and give me feedback on that. So I knew that going into it. I didn't think much of it at the time because, I mean, I'm a millennial. I've seen this stuff on YouTube, I've seen this stuff on TikTok. And at the time I was like, yeah, this is pretty normal. And we're not publishing this. This is all very private. So there isn't really a harm here. So we went to the session the first day we he didn't record any of the conversations. It was just to see me in action. And he kept giving me a lot of feedback in the moment or after the interactions that were just very stereotypical picked up artist like do this with your tonality, follow this, do that. And a lot of the stuff I was like, no, like, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong specifically? Didn't really vibe too well in the first day. I was like, whatever, you know what, give it the second day. And he before we, I signed on with him, he had a refund policy and he said, if you don't like what what I do or you don't like how we work together, by the end of the second day, I'll give you a full refund.

13:14 I was like, great. So I was like, let me give it another day. We haven't even recorded anything. Let's see him in full action. Second day comes along, I meet him at the Eaton Center, which is a pretty big mall here in Toronto. And I see him standing inside and he's holding this little lunch box. And I'm like, what is that? And then he turns it around and there's a camera lens behind a little hole. And I was like, oh, no, I this is red flag. But the problem is prior to all of this, I've had a mantra for the past couple of years, which is chase fear. And it's whenever you're afraid of something, just go for it, keep going for it, because fear leads to learning. So I was like, you know what?

14:02 I'm afraid, but just go for it. Nothing's going to go wrong. So I actually asked him. I was like, yo, what? Why a hidden camera? Why not a cell phone? And he's like, oh, cell phones are way too big, man. Somebody's going to catch a cell phone. And I remember just being like, this is not any better dude. So are are you miked? Yeah, So he had me miked up. We went through, went through a few tests like with the mic and the the camera and then he had me going around talking to women as he filmed the interactions. And then in between he would give me, he would give me advice on what to do.

14:44 Now The thing is with the way he worked is he told me it was a very, it was going to be a very custom approach to his training. It wasn't. It was very much standard pickup artist routine. Say this, do this, do that. You'll get the number. And I kept telling him, hey, dude, like I want very clear feedback on what I'm doing because I'm already a social guy. I'm already doing doing well just based off my own instincts. Just give me feedback on that. We kept going back and forth on it. He kept telling me stick to the foundation, stick to the foundations. I felt very wrong being in the mall, especially at times that he had me hold the hidden camera.

15:30 It felt like I was holding a bomb and I was sitting there like, dude, get the hell out of here. Like this is not cool. I still decided to press on. I was like, you know what? I can't really stay in this mall anymore. So I told him, hey, dude, I don't really go to the mall. I'm not gonna be trying to pick up chicks at the mall. That's not something I do in my regular time. I was like, can we go out like to the streets, like I'm usually going to catch somebody going to the grocery store, walking my dog. That's the kind of interaction I want. So we go to work in the streets teaching me how to talk to women in the streets, blah, blah, blah. And then we're, we're getting near the end of the session and I'm going, this is not it. I, I want a refund.

16:13 So we're walking towards a place where he wants us to review the footage. As we're walking, he says, hey, one more, one more time, go talk to this woman. And I was like, great. I run up. I talk to this woman. We have a fantastic conversation. I ask her what she's doing. She says I have no plans. I was like, OK, let's make some plans. She's like, great. I was going to go smoke up AJ near the lake if you wanted to come join. I was like, sure. So we are walking and talking and maybe been like 30 seconds. This is like middle of downtown, by the way. So I paint the picture. It's like streetcar is driving through multiple times. People are walking this Saturday afternoon, lots of people everywhere.

16:57 And we're in like the major intersection of downtown Toronto. I'm walking with this this woman and we're chatting back and forth, very innocent conversation. And then out of nowhere on my left side, a cop comes up and says, excuse me, do you guys know this guy? And I turn around and he's talking to the talking about the coach who's a few meters away. And I panic and I go, no, I don't. She's like, what? He's like, why are you filming her? And I don't have an answer. He doesn't give me a chance to respond. He's like, hey, get over here. Puts me towards the coach. The cop is trying to investigate what's going on, trying to figure out like what we're doing.

17:43 But he's not asking us any questions. He's asking everyone around questions, asking the woman, asking some witnesses who saw me approach her. And then the cop comes up to me, asks me how I know the guy. I tell him that man is teaching me how to talk to women. We were recorded in the conversation for educational purposes. The cop disappears, comes back and then says, OK, get up, I'm arresting you for voyeurism for a sexual intent or sexual purpose and. Who was carrying the camera during the interaction with the woman? That was the coach. So he's behind you with a camera? Yeah. And is he arrested as well? You're both arrested, so. We're both arrested.

18:24 The entire time during the arrest, I'm staying quiet. I'm like, don't incriminate yourself further. I don't know what the situation is. I have no idea what's going on. I kept thinking like voyeurism for sexual purposes. OK, so we are we're recording a conversation. Is the like, if the conversation is going to lead to sex, potential to lead to sex, is that illegal? Trying to wrap my head around what this means. Spend the night in jail, get a release order. And then a week later, actually about two weeks later, like 10 days later, I see my face on the news. Actually, one of my friends had hit me up, one of my best friends and said, Hey, I imagine you know, you're on the news. And I was like, what?

19:10 Google my name. See all these articles saying that we were filming upskirt footage in downtown Toronto and this is the first time I've heard of us like the allegation that we were filming upskirt footage. So I freak the hell out. I like cry my friend. I'm like screaming and just super heightened situation. And that's where the roller coaster begins in my life. So you spent the night in jail? No one's talking about upskirt. Like what? What made the media run with this ten days after the fact? Yeah, that. So that's what we're trying to figure out right now. From what I understand, and I could be very wrong about this, but when when the police charge somebody with something that and that it needs to go to the press, they typically have a few days to look at the evidence and then decide if they want to put out a press release in this case.

20:07 They sat with the evidence for a week and then decided we're going to put out a press release, even though the footage in the video never had any upskirt footage and the charges have been withdrawn since then. So we know there's no evidence for both myself and I. I believe the coach as well. I did see something online that his charges were dropped as well so there was no upskirt footage to be had. This was just a situation where the police officer was well-intentioned but over overly zealous with his policing. How long from you're arrested? Two charges are dropped.

20:48 Oh man, about eight months. Oh, so all right, so not not not like 10 days. It's in the news. And then a week later they dropped the charges. It's this. Month. No, and also it it happened at a very interesting time in Toronto where the court court system has been backlogged in general around the world due to COVID. But in Toronto, they recently closed down 5 courthouses to amalgamate them into one giant courthouse, but didn't properly staff that courthouse. So everything is very, very backlog. So this case that should have been out in a couple of months lasted the full 8 months. But it but it never went to court. Never went to court, just stayed in in trial and eventually the charges were withdrawn because we just had overwhelming evidence that things that that that I wasn't filming any kind of upskirt footage.

21:45 Right. So do you have any like what did someone around say? Did other people suspect that was happening? And and we're watching you 2 you and the coach working all day or something like what? No. So it really just was a situation where while we were talking to that last woman, a cop was supervising a construction site and had seen us in the distance. And what we're trying to figure out now is why he jumped to the conclusion of upskirt footage. Because the coach, like, as a filmmaker, I know cameras very well. The the coach's camera was a small Canon camcorder inside of a lunch box. Like the, the woman, if I remember correctly, had a very long skirt. I remember it being like up to her knees. And it wasn't a flowy kind of skirt. It was a pretty tight skirt.

22:34 So in order for him to get something similar to upskirt, he would have had to have been directly behind us. And when the police officer stopped us, the coach was a few meters away, so there is no way that he would have been filming Upskirt because he would have stopped us both and said something. So I'm not familiar with the charge of voyeurism for a sexual purpose. Had you heard of that before? I. I did not hear about that. I don't. I had no idea what that was. I'd always heard of voyeuristic filmmaking. Like I've heard the term from some cinematographers I'd have worked with in the past who've always said like, Oh yeah, like we're this is like from a distance and it's kind of like hidden.

23:19 That's what I thought it was. I thought voyeurism just referred to hidden camera for a sexual purpose. Again, that that part confused me, 'cause I was like, does that mean that we're going to have sex later? Is that the problem? I don't understand where this is going. So that that you spent one night in jail and that night are you? Is it are you like, are you terrified? Or is it like, oh, this is the this is this will just blow away by the morning or oh. So it was so because I was so confused by this charge and I knew that we weren't doing anything wrong. When I was in the cell, I was thinking, OK, come on, Like voyeurism, sex like this is like a misdemeanor problem. Like we're, we're slimming the conversation.

24:00 So what? And I just kept kind of pacing back and forth to myself thinking, ah, there's got to be nothing. And then they gave me a chance to talk to a public defender. And I get on a call and it's this like padded room, like super soundproof. And it's through this intercom, a very staticky intercom. And I like, turn it on. I'm talking to her. And she's like, what? What? And it's like middle of the night, I'm like, hey, she's like, what, what, What are you being charged with? What's happening? And I was like, yeah, I hired this dating coach and we're from the conversation and police officer charged us with voyeurism for a sexual purpose. And I could hear just like the biggest pregnant pause. And she's like, that's a serious charge.

24:43 Actually. That's going to be that's like a maximum of five years in prison. And you'd be on a sex offenders list, which will ruin your life, to be honest. And I just, like, my heart immediately dropped. And when I got sent back to my cell, just a mixture of anger, sadness, I prayed to God, which I hadn't done in years. And I just sitting there like, holy shit. So I was just like, yeah, I, I, I don't know what's going to happen in my life. And I had worked so hard to get the sort of momentum that I had in the film industry at that point. And I was like, if I end up on the sex offenders list, I'm not going to be able to work as a filmmaker. I'm not going to be able to work anywhere really. I'm screwed.

25:37 So I started thinking of how I would get out of this. And the thought that came crystal clear was, OK, time to end it. If you end up on the sexual offenders list, you're going to have to kill yourself. And it what was so scary about that thought was it was so real. Like without any passion, without any tears, without any emotion. It was straight up administrative. It just felt like just get this done and move forward. It's the next thing on the task. Right, you again, you you seem very action oriented, task oriented, and I'm in a situation I don't understand.

26:17 I don't see help, I don't see hope. The only scenario is this and and I get that because I've I've I've been there too. So how you released the next morning, do the suicidal thoughts continue as you as you leave jail or like once you're free? Is it, you know, you feeling better for those those few days before it's in the news? So the next day they let me out. I get back, I, I get on. So they took my cell phone. So part of the release requirement was not allowed any devices that can record video or audio. And they said all cell phones have a camera. So you're gonna have to get a camera or you're gonna have to get a a phone without a camera and to go back. In time and find one of those, yeah.

26:57 But also I was like, I'm a filmmaker. I need a camera. This is this is wrong. It's not cool. But I was like, OK, but I understand why. But still. So I had to go and try to find a camera or find a a cell phone. And then when I did, I came back home and I just started Googling lawyers. So I googled first thing like I googled a bunch of lawyers, but then I also searched up what voyeurism is, went on YouTube, found a lawyer talking about voyeurism, searched up the the legal firm and realized they're in Toronto. I gave him the call and I got in a call with the lawyer and explained the situation and he was like, that's not voyeurism dude.

27:40 He's like, that was a conversation. He's like Canada has a one party consent law. You can if I'm recording this conversation right now and you don't know that is not illegal. And he's like, Are you sure he wasn't filming upskirt footage? And I was like, yeah, I will swear on my life. Did not record upskirt footage. And he's like, then if if you're telling me like the absolute truth on this, then yeah, you're not gonna get charged. It's not even gonna make it to court. So that was a big relief. And I was like, OK, great. The the rest of the week, all I like I the first thing I did afterwards is I just Googled my name. I was like, am I in the news? Yeah, I'm not in the news. I was like, OK, the next few days, same thing.

28:22 Every single day, multiple times a day, Googling my name, very unique name, Kasan Ellis. I was like, OK, Google, Google. OK, nothing, nothing, nothing. Get to the Friday. Nothing. I was like, OK, great. Nothing's out there. And then the next weekend was a long weekend. Me and a buddy hung out. So Monday I was off. I really started thinking about like, OK, what am I going to do? Like I haven't been charged with anything. I haven't been convicted of anything, but like, what do I want to do with my life now? Like this was a scary situation and I started thinking about like how I was going to straighten up essentially or get better. And then the Tuesday came around and I'll never forget this. So I I work as a digital advertiser as well. So I was working remote for a company in the States and first thing that happened is my boss hits me up at 10:00 AM and she's like, hey, we need to chat.

29:21 I get on a call first thing in the morning at this point, like I'd been the man at work. Like I'm a manager at the department. I'm doing all this great stuff. I'm like well, embedded in the system. I get the news that I'm being let go. Total surprise. And I was like, why? She's like, well, I'm just like, your role is no longer efficient. Unfortunately, like we, we had a talk just couldn't, we just can't keep you on the team. It's like, OK, whatever. Like I'll get another job. I'm fine. I've got a great resume, I've got a great reputation. It's going to be OK. That's 10 AM, 3:00 PM. Best friend hits me up and says, you know, you're on the news. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? The same day that I get let go from work is the same day this happens and and you're.

30:16 Sure that the news hadn't leaked somewhere else earlier that that so the losing the job had nothing to do with the charges? Absolutely nothing. Total coincidence because the news came out at 3:00 PM and there were no other reports anywhere and my bosses and my entire team as either American or South American and I'm in Canada, so there is no way they would have found out about it. So just total coincidence. And that entire week was just such a weird week of like contradictions. So because I was such a, a, a well liked person at work, like they gave me a full week to say my goodbyes remotely. And it was everybody was like messaging me and I was messaging everyone.

31:04 Everyone was like, I can't believe you're getting me and let go. You shouldn't be. This shouldn't happen. We're all revolting against this. It was like this big thing where everyone was really angry and people were giving me such love, and it was this giant love bomb of just everybody loving me. Meanwhile in my personal life, everybody is distancing them themselves from me and everyone's like, I can't believe you would do this. What the hell? I would try to explain what the situation was and people were like, this is still very sketchy. I'm going to have to take time to process, which is understandable. It's a complicated situation, but I remember just having this week where I was like, I love you so much, I can't believe you're going away and stay the hell away from me. So the stay the hell away from me vibe. Did that continue for the months it took for the charges to be dropped?

31:58 For the most part, yeah. There are only a select few people who really knew the situation that like I would say for the the most part, the people who knew who were close to me were extremely supportive. The people who said I need time to process came back a little later and said like, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm down to keep a relationship going. I'm down to keep talking to you. And there were some people who went the way they responded, I was like, I can't keep you around in my life. Just the way you you handled it was just a betrayal of my trust. And did this impact you finding work as well or or not? So that's the interesting thing it, it did and it didn't. So it, it stopped me from working as an actor for the, the duration.

32:48 I called my agents immediately and I explained to them, hey, I'm on the news and it's really sketchy. But I didn't do it. And because I have a good rapport and and good relationship with my agents, they immediately supported me and they're like, no, no, we understand. We'll still keep you around. Just keep us updated on the situation and let us know when things are dropped. So I because of that, they were also telling me like you can't audition because if you book something, there's a morality clause in all the contracts and we'll need to be upfront about any kind of legal issues that you have. So could not audition. All the work that I was doing as a filmmaker completely paused, and because I was looking for work, I was avoiding companies in Toronto 'cause I was like, I don't want anybody to Google my name in Toronto. I ended up finding work through American companies. And the interesting thing is because I'm in the industry, I go by Sam LSI as an actor and a filmmaker. So if you type in Sam LSI completely untouched by the story, you see an LSI, on the other hand, totally tainted. So it's one of those situations that's funny to me in a weird twisted way, where it's like my birth name is stained, but my fake name is totally fine.

34:09 It's squeaky clean. So you seem in a good space about all this now, but like how, how rough were those months of, of having having friends not believe you or at least not sure about you or, and all that sort of stuff? Yeah. Terrible. I, I would say the first two months were high. Like I learned that drama is not a linear, a linear path to, to salvation like it takes. It's, it's a very much of A roller coaster ride. And it was so many sleepless nights and so many nights of me like treating myself like shit and telling myself, you are a piece of shit, like you deserve this. And then other times where I was like, OK, no, like you had to build yourself back up.

35:01 And it was also the the hard part about it was going outside. I mean, when your face is on the news. And I live in a pretty happening neighborhood in Toronto. So people saw the image. I was kicked out of bars. I had people giving me dirty looks on the streets. My neighbors gave me dirty looks. So it was the situation where I was like, I don't want to be outside. So I had to teach myself how to be social again and give myself a form of exposure therapy to get comfortable being outside and being around people. I mean, it took me like 3 months to just get comfortable on A streetcar, on a bus. Cause the entire time I was sitting in there thinking everybody knows, everybody is looking like panic, panic. Red flag, red flag.

35:48 Get the hell out. And prior to this experience had had you had, you know, issues with, with paranoia or anything like that before, before this? Not to this extent. I mean, everyone deals with, you know, ideas or like their imagination running a little wild, but it's easy to tame. This was a situation where it was drama was taking over and it was like, get out. Like, this is too much. So it was a very measured approach to getting myself comfortable with everything. The same what's what's the lesson to you? What do? What do you take out of this? Well, I mean, the first one, I, I definitely learned something about consent from filmmaking.

36:31 That was the very big one. Because at the time, again, I thought it was not a big deal. But I had a few people in my life and a few strangers that I've met and told the story to who were like, Nah, that's pretty sketchy. And I was like, OK, you know what? I really have to think about this. And once I did and I realized how messed up it was, it was, it's a lesson that still sticks with me. Like I can't watch YouTube content anymore. If it's like somebody is starting a conversation, if I don't know that they've gotten that approval or that that release form from somebody #2 the big one that I learned, I really did learn empathy in this entire process.

37:15 I learned that empathy is a superpower here. One, being empathetic to myself, like really allowing myself to make the mistake and understanding that it doesn't define me. But then also very much early in the process I was because I was so hurt. I was angry at a lot of people and I that's where I could have easily jumped into some of the fringe groups and become a total asshole. And I had to teach myself, no, like, this is an opportunity to actually be better because of this. And something else I learned from this is the idea of power as well.

37:58 And power is such a difficult word to use because it gets abused and used incorrectly. There's a difference between having power over someone, which is sort of the standard definition of power, and then what I learned is being empowered. So having the power of your own choice. So from this experience, I learned I do have the decision to to decide how I want to live or react to the situation. I can either be an asshole to everyone. I can choose this to be a total ruthless son of a bee, or I could take the moment to realize that I have more options, which is essentially what being empowered is. It's realizing.

38:50 Yeah, yeah, I, I, I am stuck in the situation, but there are a lot more options than I give myself credit. What's your relationship or attitude to the police at this point? I've got a lawsuit happening with them, obviously because there's defamation with this. And it's so difficult because what the police officer did was, was wrong in the sense that he, he did not follow protocol and really investigate what was going on, especially when evidence was so clearly on our side. But also he was defending women. He was defending a woman. And he he thought he was doing the right thing by protecting this woman from from somebody who is being creepy.

39:34 You do see your actions as being creepy. I see the, the, the act of filming, especially with the hidden camera as creepy, like going up to somebody. I've, I've gone back and forth with this a million times. Like, is it creepy to go up to somebody and say, hey, I think you're cute or I thought you were really attractive or something to that effect. And I kept going back and forth, back and forth in my head about this. I've come to the conclusion now that no, it's not. As long as you are coming in there with good intentions and you are, you have the intent of having a conversation. Where it doesn't become a cat call where you're not like, hey baby, what's up? But you're like, hey, I came and tried to start a conversation. And as long as you understand the cues that make someone uncomfortable, whether they verbally tell you or you can sense them and you leave on those moments, what you are doing is not wrong.

40:31 It's actually very human. You're just having a conversation with them. Something else that I did learn and I want to touch on and I think is great for this podcast, it is the idea of vulnerability and authenticity. When the situation all went down, I kept trying to shield myself by being angry, by deflecting, by trying really hard to suppress my feelings and be a quote UN quote man about it. But the way I healed from the situation is allowing myself to feel the emotions that I did and allowing myself to to not feel like it's a weakness to be, you know, to be emotional about it, to be sad some days, to be angry some days. To have these feelings come through me is human. For sure.

41:27 Yeah. To be honest, since you were charged and and they stayed, it took eight months for them to go away. Like I would assume there was some evidence or mistaken evidence that yeah, you're you're upskirt shooting. But and so it and charge would be dropped. Yeah, I would even if I knew I was your friend. Like you're you're doing more than you're telling me, bud, you know, and are you are you facing that? Are people telling you that? Oh my God it's so funny you mentioned exactly that. So one of my friends from college reached out to me. I so I put out a statement on social media explaining once the charges were dropped and everything was was handled, one of my friends reached out to me and I just saw him last weekend and he was like, I saw the news. I saw there was a video camera.

42:14 I thought they absolutely have video evidence. There's no way they put this out without video evidence. And I trusted their word for it. And he's like, I'm so sorry. I should have known you so much better, he think. The entire time I was like, how can Ghassan do that? That's not him, so it's I. Again, I don't blame people for jumping to the conclusion because the media does work that way. And did your relationship with this coach continue after you you come out of jail or? Absolutely not. So again, because I did not trust him initially, I don't trust him going forward with anything else. And what's crazy about the coach is he hasn't. He hadn't been arrested prior to this, but he didn't have anything on him.

43:01 But he just had like creepy pick up videos on YouTube. But two weeks after my charges were dropped, his face showed up again on the news. And this time it seemed a lot more nefarious. It said that he was following a woman into the bathroom with a camera, with a cell phone. Again, because I've gone through this, I'm not jumping to conclusion. I'm not going to be 1 to say that's exactly what happened. But I mean, it seems a lot more damning than walking on the streets. So no reason for me to talk to him again. Is the the the strong point there? So how? How long ago? When, when was the arrest? What? What, What year are we talking about?

43:42 2023 So the arrest was July 29th, 2023. The news came out August 8th, 2023 and my statement came out August Wealth 2024. And this is me. Finally going out with the story. How's the world treating you now? Do you still think some people looking at you with with the news from a year ago in their head? Or it will, I guess you might never know too when when people are looking at you. So I've I've let things live as they are. I mean, if somebody thinks they know the story, I mean, let them think unless they bring it up.

44:22 The world has gotten a lot easier for me. I've gotten so much better at socializing. I'm still getting more comfortable with expressing intent and talking to women that I'm interested in throughout the day. That's something that's never gonna change. I feel like that's very much human. But I'm working on a day in day, day in, day out. What I will say is there was a moment where I was like, everything is OK. Like we're finally free from the situation. And it was like a couple months ago where I was like, everyone's probably forgot by now. And then a friend of mine at the dog park that I hang out with, she's a bit of an older woman. She, she knows the story. And one day she came up to me and she's like, hey, are you gonna tell anybody about this story? And I was like, I'm planning on it. She's like, well, I, I would probably say something because somebody approached me and told me, hey, do you know that guy? So I was like, oh, OK, so the news is still out there. Yeah.

45:25 And and again, I get, I get it. That makes sense. And that's the humane condition too. It's. Warning people the. News that the charge is news charges being dropped isn't as big as news. So people remember, oh, I'm the only reason I know that guy is because of this. And yeah. And also because I have such a unique hair, it's very easy to spot me. So part of what we're doing right now, because I'm a filmmaker, is we are making a documentary around this. I am just a producer and the subject in this documentary, one of my good friends who is a documentarian is directing this. And we call the documentary Uncancelled. And it's the process of rebuilding the name and going through how you get back your name and all of this.

46:10 Yeah, part of a part of what we are doing with this is showing how difficult it is to clear the name online. And also like what is this idea of being quote, UN quote cancelled? Yeah, your reputation is probably permanently tarnished. Yeah, yeah. And part of it is I, I going back to the whole idea of power is I have the, I could go with the route of trying to cover it up and take down every single article and all of that. But this situation no longer shames me.

46:51 I'm not afraid to speak on it and speak about my learnings from it. So I am empowering myself to go out and really get ahead of this and go, no, no, you, you have the news out there. But let me tell you the real story of what went down. Yeah, it's still pretty messed up, but there is a side to this. So go saying, what's the best way for people to learn about what we're up to and and stay in touch through through the process of uncancelled and everything you're up to? Yeah, I'm working on this documentary Uncancelled. It should be released sometime in October. mid-october we are going to release it online. If you want to stay up to date, you can check me out on Medium is where I posted my original article of this this story and where I'm going to be continuing to post more content.

47:40 Awesome. Well, I appreciate you getting through that experience and not and sharing it. And I wish you good luck with the documentary and getting more work and and rebuilding yourself to some extent. It's hard to believe that you ever had a problem being open and vulnerable and authentic, because that's that's all I get from you. Yeah, I know. Again, it's what people usually see. And it's so funny to me because I have these and This is why I went through the journey is I had all these skills. I knew I could do this, especially as an actor and a filmmaker. It's like, why can't I do this with somebody I'm really interested in or somebody I'm really trying to get close to? So definitely a journey man.

48:26 Yep, Yep, and it never stops. So good luck with the rest of the journey. I hope the the roller coasters are smoothing out now and you get more enjoyable rides of your choosing. And and thanks very much for joining us today. Please visit Real Men Field at org we'll have the only blog post for this episode with all the show notes. We'll have links, everything mentioned, and you can check out the original article that Ghassan mentioned. And wherever you're discovering real men feel, subscribe, follow, like, share this for someone else, post, review or comment. If you know that you are meant for more and you're not living it, consider booking a clarity call with me. That's a free conversation, the andygrant.com talk. You can always reach out to me at realmenfeel@gmail.com. And until next time, be good to yourself.