Uncanceled: Love, Lies & Legal Trouble with Ghasan Alesayi

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, author, coach and
healer, Andy Grant.

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You can learn more about me at
be andygrant.com.

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Real Men Feel reminds men that
they're human beings and have

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the right to experience and
express all of their emotions.

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We have conversations that most
men are not having, but that all

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men can benefit from.
My guest today is the San Alasi.

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The San is an actor and
filmmaker in Toronto who

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recently reached out to me.
He wanted to work on his fears

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and insecurities when it came to
approaching women.

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He ended up hiring a dating
coach who had him approach a

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number of women on the streets.
On one occasion, a police

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officer saw him talking to a
woman while another man was

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lurking nearby, and he thought
something must be up.

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Arrests are made, charges filed
and reputations ruined as the

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San finds himself canceled.
Let's get to his story and

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lessons learned.
Hello Ghassan, and welcome to

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Real Men Feel.
Hey, thanks for having me, Andy.

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You actually emailed me the
beginning of August and I've got

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it right here, so let's see.
You said.

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I've been through a roller
coaster journey, faced with

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false legal accusations, public
scrutiny, and accepting my

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mistakes while trying to become
a better man.

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And you ended up saying.
But I would love to sit down and

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chat with you about how my legal
and personal challenges have

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allowed me to have a fresh
perspective on how men need to

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be brave when they use their
masculinity.

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So that's how you landed here.
Yeah.

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Before we dive into what's
happened, what makes you want to

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Share your story publicly?
I think it's very timely.

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When this happened, the first
thing I thought about, well,

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after all the trauma and
emotions, first thing I thought

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about was how many other men are
going through similar struggles

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and frustrations right now and
confusions.

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And the problem that I've seen,
especially in in my personal

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life, is friends going on to
some of the darker sides of

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masculinity because of their
frustrations.

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And I know that's really bred
from the the confusion that's

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out there.
So I really wanted to to share

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my story as a way for other
people who are just as confused

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to take a look at this before
they go into something that

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might be a little bit more dark.
OK, so tell me about your life

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before the roller coaster.
Yeah, for sure.

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So before the roller coaster, I
so I'm an actor, I'm a

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filmmaker.
I've been in the industry for

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the past 10 years here in
Toronto.

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I've lived a very social life as
far as anyone can tell.

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So I'm very extroverted.
I, I, I, whenever I'm, my

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friends used to say whenever
they put me into a party, it's

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like, oh, we don't have to worry
about him.

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He can go and have a great time
and we don't have to stay near

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him.
So I, I knew this about myself,

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but one of the things that I
started taking a look at prior

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to this roller coaster is I had,
I was at a fork in the road

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where I could continue working
on more creative in my life and

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really just bunker down and stay
in my room and really just write

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every single night.
Or I could really take this

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moment to develop myself.
Because one of the things that I

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started realizing over my life
is I had these moments where I

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had an opportunity to connect
with someone, whether it's

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somebody that I knew or somebody
that I wanted to get to know.

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And I was allowing fear to stop
me.

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And it was a fear of one
rejection and then #2 being

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vulnerable with someone.
So when I took a look at this as

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a whole, I started realizing I'm
not really living an honest

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life.
I was going from point A to

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point B throughout my day and
running into people that I

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wanted to talk to and not really
socializing.

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Part of that was also women as
well is I'm living in Toronto,

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I've, I see attractive women all
the time.

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And I was always like, how do I
just go up and say hi?

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And is it OK for me to say hi?
And there were so many moments

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where the opportunity was there,
things were, were getting kind

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of warm and I still didn't go
for it.

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And it was again, sense of
rejection that that just kept

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coming in there.
So I decided to, before

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anything, jump into therapy to
to really understand these fears

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and really I try to understand
myself a little bit more before

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I start trying to understand
other people.

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So when you speak about being
social and being an extrovert,

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was it more just of a surface
level?

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You you weren't making deep
connections.

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You weren't really opening up.
Yeah, so I wasn't really opening

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up with with some of you people.
I thought I were, I were close

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friends, which was kind of weird
to me.

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But then also in moments when I
would just try to, when I was

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just by myself, I, I wouldn't go
out of my way to start a

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conversation with someone.
I would never initiate a, a

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conversation with somebody out
in the wild.

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And it's it, it's funny to me
saying this because any friends

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who probably hear this are
confused as all hell because

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they see me and they're like,
you're the most extroverted

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person I know.
How do you have this problem?

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But that's something that I
wanted to explore with therapy.

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And and how did therapy go for
you?

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It was great.
So when I went into therapy, the

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very first thing I, I did was
tell my therapist what I was

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there to work on.
Specifically, I told him I had a

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fear of intimacy with women.
I, I had a bit of shame around

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sex, had a fear of being
vulnerable and fear of

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rejection.
And I, I wanted to, to create a

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2 pronged approach to this one
where I wanted to analyze myself

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so really dig deep into where
these things come from.

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But then #2 I set up my own
social plan of what I wanted to

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do to get more connected with
the world and really live my

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most authentic life.
And I wanted to let my therapist

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know what I was planning ahead
of time.

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So I would say challenge this
week, but ask 5 people for the

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time or ask them for directions.
Very simple task.

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What are the emotions that come
through?

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So I would let him know that's
the task.

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And then we'd come into the
session and we discussed that

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first.
So I would go like, these are

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the things that came through my
mind.

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These are the thoughts that came
through my mind.

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And then we'd analyze where that
came from and if if there's an

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actual source to all of these
insecurities.

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And that was successful.
The second part of that question

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or answer is there was some
success to that.

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So I was able to dig deep with
my therapist and find the roots

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to, to some of the causes or I
guess the thoughts and feelings.

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But where it it where I ran into
more problems is I I started

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overthinking things a little too
hard.

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And it kind of became this
feedback loop of trying

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something, thinking about the
thoughts that come up, bringing

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it to therapy, and then just
kind of getting in a cycle where

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I'm overthinking every single
thing I was doing instead of

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just existing.
Yeah, 'cause it sounds kind of

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surprising to me because you did
make all these social

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experiments for yourself.
So it seems like you're really,

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you're really a man of action.
But then even with all this

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action, you still got trapped
just kind of ruminating on

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everything.
Is that is that the scenario?

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Yeah, 100%.
And, and, and something that was

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great about the whole therapy
experience as a whole was I was

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able to identify the different
voices in my head, so to speak,

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that I did not otherwise know
knew existed.

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And it's like just these regular
thoughts that go on through my

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day.
But once going through therapy,

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I started realizing, oh, they're
actually sides to me that are

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very toxic.
And there are sides to me that

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want to get out but are afraid.
And I, I, it was, I remember

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there was this session I had
with my therapist where we

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discussed, it felt like
everybody was trying to grab the

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microphone in my mind.
And we were discussing how it

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was like, OK, we've got to find
a way to get everybody to work

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together.
So that yeah, so there were

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successes to it, but again,
definitely some some pitfalls

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that I didn't see coming.
All right, so therapy sounds you

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you learned it wasn't perfect,
but you were learning you're

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growing.
So we're still still sounds like

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it's pre roller coaster.
Yeah, still pre roller coaster

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and and still something that I
do to this day.

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I'm not somebody who rejects
therapy at all.

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I actually do think it's a
superpower.

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But I think where I was lost in
it was the growing pains of

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trying something new.
And I was equating that with my

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own failures as opposed to or,
I'm sorry, failures of the

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process as opposed to just a
transitional moment.

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So So what came next?
So what happened was I started

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getting in my head, especially
around dating and I, I'm sure

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if, if anybody, I mean, I, I
don't know if you have before,

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but if anybody's tried cold
approach before, I'm like

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walking up to somebody and
saying hi.

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You know, the how nerve wracking
it gets, whether it's to another

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man or to a woman, there's still
that same level of fear.

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And I was trying to get rid of
this fear so much, not realizing

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that it's innate enough as
humans.

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So I decided, you know what I
am, I really do have a problem

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here.
I'm not really understanding how

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to get over this fear and I'm
not understanding the

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flirtatious side of of
interacting with women in this

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kind of scenario.
So I started talking to some

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friends.
Friend of mine had seen a dating

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coach and told me, hey, like,
yeah, you put in a good amount

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of money, but it does change
your life.

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So I started shopping around to
see if somebody could help me

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out, realize the dating dating
coach market is incredibly

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expensive and decided to go with
someone who was more in my

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budget but not somebody I I
trusted with their content.

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It's not only in hindsight did
you really meet this person.

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Go.
I don't trust you, but I'm

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hiring you anyway.
Yeah, throughout the entire

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process, like I checked out his
website, I had a couple of

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interactions with him back and
forth through various sites, so

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Reddit and and WhatsApp.
And the entire time I was like,

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this is red flag, red flag, red
flag.

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Don't do this.
It's funny, I was actually going

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through a lot of my notes
because through this entire

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process, I was rigorously taking
notes And one of them was stream

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of consciousness journaling and
found my stream of consciousness

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journal a few days before hiring
this guy.

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And it said do not trust him.
Trust your instinct.

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And I, I wish I, I, I listened
to that voice.

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So you ignored your instincts
and and you hired this dating

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coach.
Correct.

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OK.
So he told me about the process.

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I was aware of what the process
was.

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Essentially he wanted us to walk
around downtown Toronto and he

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would, it was a three day
session and he would essentially

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point out woman, say go talk to
her.

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I would go and he would film and
record the interaction.

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So then we can later review the
footage and see where things are

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going wrong, where things are
right and give me feedback on

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that.
So I knew that going into it.

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I didn't think much of it at the
time because, I mean, I'm a

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millennial.
I've seen this stuff on YouTube,

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I've seen this stuff on TikTok.
And at the time I was like,

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yeah, this is pretty normal.
And we're not publishing this.

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This is all very private.
So there isn't really a harm

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here.
So we went to the session the

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first day we he didn't record
any of the conversations.

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It was just to see me in action.
And he kept giving me a lot of

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feedback in the moment or after
the interactions that were just

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very stereotypical picked up
artist like do this with your

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tonality, follow this, do that.
And a lot of the stuff I was

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like, no, like, can you tell me
what I'm doing wrong

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specifically?
Didn't really vibe too well in

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the first day.
I was like, whatever, you know

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what, give it the second day.
And he before we, I signed on

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with him, he had a refund policy
and he said, if you don't like

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what what I do or you don't like
how we work together, by the end

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of the second day, I'll give you
a full refund.

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I was like, great.
So I was like, let me give it

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00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,040
another day.
We haven't even recorded

226
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,040
anything.
Let's see him in full action.

227
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:25,080
Second day comes along, I meet
him at the Eaton Center, which

228
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,080
is a pretty big mall here in
Toronto.

229
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,400
And I see him standing inside
and he's holding this little

230
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,680
lunch box.
And I'm like, what is that?

231
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:38,800
And then he turns it around and
there's a camera lens behind a

232
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,480
little hole.
And I was like, oh, no, I this

233
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,680
is red flag.
But the problem is prior to all

234
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:51,960
of this, I've had a mantra for
the past couple of years, which

235
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,800
is chase fear.
And it's whenever you're afraid

236
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,560
of something, just go for it,
keep going for it, because fear

237
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,760
leads to learning.
So I was like, you know what?

238
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:07,640
I'm afraid, but just go for it.
Nothing's going to go wrong.

239
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,600
So I actually asked him.
I was like, yo, what?

240
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,440
Why a hidden camera?
Why not a cell phone?

241
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,280
And he's like, oh, cell phones
are way too big, man.

242
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:17,680
Somebody's going to catch a cell
phone.

243
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,520
And I remember just being like,
this is not any better dude.

244
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,640
So are are you miked?
Yeah, So he had me miked up.

245
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,960
We went through, went through a
few tests like with the mic and

246
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,520
the the camera and then he had
me going around talking to women

247
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,000
as he filmed the interactions.
And then in between he would

248
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,080
give me, he would give me advice
on what to do.

249
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:50,320
Now The thing is with the way he
worked is he told me it was a

250
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,480
very, it was going to be a very
custom approach to his training.

251
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,920
It wasn't.
It was very much standard pickup

252
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,160
artist routine.
Say this, do this, do that.

253
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,680
You'll get the number.
And I kept telling him, hey,

254
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,040
dude, like I want very clear
feedback on what I'm doing

255
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,360
because I'm already a social
guy.

256
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,160
I'm already doing doing well
just based off my own instincts.

257
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,800
Just give me feedback on that.
We kept going back and forth on

258
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,360
it.
He kept telling me stick to the

259
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,120
foundation, stick to the
foundations.

260
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,080
I felt very wrong being in the
mall, especially at times that

261
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,520
he had me hold the hidden
camera.

262
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,440
It felt like I was holding a
bomb and I was sitting there

263
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,080
like, dude, get the hell out of
here.

264
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,040
Like this is not cool.
I still decided to press on.

265
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,760
I was like, you know what?
I can't really stay in this mall

266
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,880
anymore.
So I told him, hey, dude, I

267
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,880
don't really go to the mall.
I'm not gonna be trying to pick

268
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,600
up chicks at the mall.
That's not something I do in my

269
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,240
regular time.
I was like, can we go out like

270
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,000
to the streets, like I'm usually
going to catch somebody going to

271
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,840
the grocery store, walking my
dog.

272
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,360
That's the kind of interaction I
want.

273
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,400
So we go to work in the streets
teaching me how to talk to women

274
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,880
in the streets, blah, blah,
blah.

275
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,800
And then we're, we're getting
near the end of the session and

276
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,560
I'm going, this is not it.
I, I want a refund.

277
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,000
So we're walking towards a place
where he wants us to review the

278
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,520
footage.
As we're walking, he says, hey,

279
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,880
one more, one more time, go talk
to this woman.

280
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,360
And I was like, great.
I run up.

281
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,960
I talk to this woman.
We have a fantastic

282
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,200
conversation.
I ask her what she's doing.

283
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,720
She says I have no plans.
I was like, OK, let's make some

284
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,160
plans.
She's like, great.

285
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,920
I was going to go smoke up AJ
near the lake if you wanted to

286
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:40,800
come join.
I was like, sure.

287
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,480
So we are walking and talking
and maybe been like 30 seconds.

288
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,760
This is like middle of downtown,
by the way.

289
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,960
So I paint the picture.
It's like streetcar is driving

290
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,160
through multiple times.
People are walking this Saturday

291
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,360
afternoon, lots of people
everywhere.

292
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,800
And we're in like the major
intersection of downtown

293
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,680
Toronto.
I'm walking with this this woman

294
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,839
and we're chatting back and
forth, very innocent

295
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,839
conversation.
And then out of nowhere on my

296
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:14,160
left side, a cop comes up and
says, excuse me, do you guys

297
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,200
know this guy?
And I turn around and he's

298
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,000
talking to the talking about the
coach who's a few meters away.

299
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,240
And I panic and I go, no, I
don't.

300
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,480
She's like, what?
He's like, why are you filming

301
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,920
her?
And I don't have an answer.

302
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,440
He doesn't give me a chance to
respond.

303
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,880
He's like, hey, get over here.
Puts me towards the coach.

304
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,840
The cop is trying to investigate
what's going on, trying to

305
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,000
figure out like what we're
doing.

306
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,920
But he's not asking us any
questions.

307
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,040
He's asking everyone around
questions, asking the woman,

308
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,480
asking some witnesses who saw me
approach her.

309
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:55,040
And then the cop comes up to me,
asks me how I know the guy.

310
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,400
I tell him that man is teaching
me how to talk to women.

311
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,120
We were recorded in the
conversation for educational

312
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,320
purposes.
The cop disappears, comes back

313
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,600
and then says, OK, get up, I'm
arresting you for voyeurism for

314
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,320
a sexual intent or sexual
purpose and.

315
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,200
Who was carrying the camera
during the interaction with the

316
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,000
woman?
That was the coach.

317
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,440
So he's behind you with a
camera?

318
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,680
Yeah.
And is he arrested as well?

319
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,680
You're both arrested, so.
We're both arrested.

320
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,600
The entire time during the
arrest, I'm staying quiet.

321
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,200
I'm like, don't incriminate
yourself further.

322
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,640
I don't know what the situation
is.

323
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,200
I have no idea what's going on.
I kept thinking like voyeurism

324
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,240
for sexual purposes.
OK, so we are we're recording a

325
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,560
conversation.
Is the like, if the conversation

326
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,600
is going to lead to sex,
potential to lead to sex, is

327
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,880
that illegal?
Trying to wrap my head around

328
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,760
what this means.
Spend the night in jail, get a

329
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,600
release order.
And then a week later, actually

330
00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,520
about two weeks later, like 10
days later, I see my face on the

331
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,280
news.
Actually, one of my friends had

332
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,760
hit me up, one of my best
friends and said, Hey, I imagine

333
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,080
you know, you're on the news.
And I was like, what?

334
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:13,400
Google my name.
See all these articles saying

335
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,000
that we were filming upskirt
footage in downtown Toronto and

336
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,960
this is the first time I've
heard of us like the allegation

337
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,440
that we were filming upskirt
footage.

338
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,080
So I freak the hell out.
I like cry my friend.

339
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,720
I'm like screaming and just
super heightened situation.

340
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,880
And that's where the roller
coaster begins in my life.

341
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,960
So you spent the night in jail?
No one's talking about upskirt.

342
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,000
Like what?
What made the media run with

343
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,440
this ten days after the fact?
Yeah, that.

344
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,400
So that's what we're trying to
figure out right now.

345
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:51,240
From what I understand, and I
could be very wrong about this,

346
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:57,840
but when when the police charge
somebody with something that and

347
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,560
that it needs to go to the
press, they typically have a few

348
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,040
days to look at the evidence and
then decide if they want to put

349
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,720
out a press release in this
case.

350
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,480
They sat with the evidence for a
week and then decided we're

351
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,280
going to put out a press
release, even though the footage

352
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:20,360
in the video never had any
upskirt footage and the charges

353
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,120
have been withdrawn since then.
So we know there's no evidence

354
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,960
for both myself and I.
I believe the coach as well.

355
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,480
I did see something online that
his charges were dropped as well

356
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,560
so there was no upskirt footage
to be had.

357
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,520
This was just a situation where
the police officer was

358
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,000
well-intentioned but over overly
zealous with his policing.

359
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,680
How long from you're arrested?
Two charges are dropped.

360
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:55,760
Oh man, about eight months.
Oh, so all right, so not not not

361
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,240
like 10 days.
It's in the news.

362
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,800
And then a week later they
dropped the charges.

363
00:20:58,800 --> 00:20:59,880
It's this.
Month.

364
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,840
No, and also it it happened at a
very interesting time in Toronto

365
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,400
where the court court system has
been backlogged in general

366
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,560
around the world due to COVID.
But in Toronto, they recently

367
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,680
closed down 5 courthouses to
amalgamate them into one giant

368
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,680
courthouse, but didn't properly
staff that courthouse.

369
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,640
So everything is very, very
backlog.

370
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000
So this case that should have
been out in a couple of months

371
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,640
lasted the full 8 months.
But it but it never went to

372
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,560
court.
Never went to court, just stayed

373
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,760
in in trial and eventually the
charges were withdrawn because

374
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,840
we just had overwhelming
evidence that things that that

375
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,080
that I wasn't filming any kind
of upskirt footage.

376
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,560
Right.
So do you have any like what did

377
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,120
someone around say?
Did other people suspect that

378
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,720
was happening?
And and we're watching you 2 you

379
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,200
and the coach working all day or
something like what?

380
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:58,400
No.
So it really just was a

381
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,320
situation where while we were
talking to that last woman, a

382
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,120
cop was supervising a
construction site and had seen

383
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,720
us in the distance.
And what we're trying to figure

384
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,400
out now is why he jumped to the
conclusion of upskirt footage.

385
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,600
Because the coach, like, as a
filmmaker, I know cameras very

386
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,200
well.
The the coach's camera was a

387
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,960
small Canon camcorder inside of
a lunch box.

388
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,760
Like the, the woman, if I
remember correctly, had a very

389
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,320
long skirt.
I remember it being like up to

390
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,640
her knees.
And it wasn't a flowy kind of

391
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,480
skirt.
It was a pretty tight skirt.

392
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,440
So in order for him to get
something similar to upskirt, he

393
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,800
would have had to have been
directly behind us.

394
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:46,480
And when the police officer
stopped us, the coach was a few

395
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:52,040
meters away, so there is no way
that he would have been filming

396
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,760
Upskirt because he would have
stopped us both and said

397
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,000
something.
So I'm not familiar with the

398
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,960
charge of voyeurism for a sexual
purpose.

399
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,440
Had you heard of that before?
I.

400
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,880
I did not hear about that.
I don't.

401
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,200
I had no idea what that was.
I'd always heard of voyeuristic

402
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,600
filmmaking.
Like I've heard the term from

403
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,960
some cinematographers I'd have
worked with in the past who've

404
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,520
always said like, Oh yeah, like
we're this is like from a

405
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,160
distance and it's kind of like
hidden.

406
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,840
That's what I thought it was.
I thought voyeurism just

407
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,240
referred to hidden camera for a
sexual purpose.

408
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,480
Again, that that part confused
me, 'cause I was like, does that

409
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,880
mean that we're going to have
sex later?

410
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,120
Is that the problem?
I don't understand where this is

411
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,800
going.
So that that you spent one night

412
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:40,360
in jail and that night are you?
Is it are you like, are you

413
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,200
terrified?
Or is it like, oh, this is the

414
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,320
this is this will just blow away
by the morning or oh.

415
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,760
So it was so because I was so
confused by this charge and I

416
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,400
knew that we weren't doing
anything wrong.

417
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,840
When I was in the cell, I was
thinking, OK, come on, Like

418
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,200
voyeurism, sex like this is like
a misdemeanor problem.

419
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,880
Like we're, we're slimming the
conversation.

420
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,760
So what?
And I just kept kind of pacing

421
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,720
back and forth to myself
thinking, ah, there's got to be

422
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,000
nothing.
And then they gave me a chance

423
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,600
to talk to a public defender.
And I get on a call and it's

424
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,240
this like padded room, like
super soundproof.

425
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,800
And it's through this intercom,
a very staticky intercom.

426
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,520
And I like, turn it on.
I'm talking to her.

427
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:21,520
And she's like, what?
What?

428
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,880
And it's like middle of the
night, I'm like, hey, she's

429
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,160
like, what, what, What are you
being charged with?

430
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,880
What's happening?
And I was like, yeah, I hired

431
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,560
this dating coach and we're from
the conversation and police

432
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,360
officer charged us with
voyeurism for a sexual purpose.

433
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,760
And I could hear just like the
biggest pregnant pause.

434
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,240
And she's like, that's a serious
charge.

435
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,880
Actually.
That's going to be that's like a

436
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,200
maximum of five years in prison.
And you'd be on a sex offenders

437
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,720
list, which will ruin your life,
to be honest.

438
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,960
And I just, like, my heart
immediately dropped.

439
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:04,000
And when I got sent back to my
cell, just a mixture of anger,

440
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,480
sadness, I prayed to God, which
I hadn't done in years.

441
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,960
And I just sitting there like,
holy shit.

442
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,360
So I was just like, yeah, I, I,
I don't know what's going to

443
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:23,240
happen in my life.
And I had worked so hard to get

444
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,720
the sort of momentum that I had
in the film industry at that

445
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,640
point.
And I was like, if I end up on

446
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,440
the sex offenders list, I'm not
going to be able to work as a

447
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,240
filmmaker.
I'm not going to be able to work

448
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,600
anywhere really.
I'm screwed.

449
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,800
So I started thinking of how I
would get out of this.

450
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,600
And the thought that came
crystal clear was, OK, time to

451
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,400
end it.
If you end up on the sexual

452
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,680
offenders list, you're going to
have to kill yourself.

453
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:57,280
And it what was so scary about
that thought was it was so real.

454
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,480
Like without any passion,
without any tears, without any

455
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,280
emotion.
It was straight up

456
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,720
administrative.
It just felt like just get this

457
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,280
done and move forward.
It's the next thing on the task.

458
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,760
Right, you again, you you seem
very action oriented, task

459
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,400
oriented, and I'm in a situation
I don't understand.

460
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:18,960
I don't see help, I don't see
hope.

461
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,960
The only scenario is this and
and I get that because I've I've

462
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,120
I've been there too.
So how you released the next

463
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,440
morning, do the suicidal
thoughts continue as you as you

464
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,000
leave jail or like once you're
free?

465
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,720
Is it, you know, you feeling
better for those those few days

466
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,400
before it's in the news?
So the next day they let me out.

467
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:43,120
I get back, I, I get on.
So they took my cell phone.

468
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,000
So part of the release
requirement was not allowed any

469
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,840
devices that can record video or
audio.

470
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,520
And they said all cell phones
have a camera.

471
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,560
So you're gonna have to get a
camera or you're gonna have to

472
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,360
get a a phone without a camera
and to go back.

473
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,040
In time and find one of those,
yeah.

474
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,680
But also I was like, I'm a
filmmaker.

475
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,760
I need a camera.
This is this is wrong.

476
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,160
It's not cool.
But I was like, OK, but I

477
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,920
understand why.
But still.

478
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,560
So I had to go and try to find a
camera or find a a cell phone.

479
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,840
And then when I did, I came back
home and I just started Googling

480
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,520
lawyers.
So I googled first thing like I

481
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,920
googled a bunch of lawyers, but
then I also searched up what

482
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,240
voyeurism is, went on YouTube,
found a lawyer talking about

483
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,360
voyeurism, searched up the the
legal firm and realized they're

484
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,160
in Toronto.
I gave him the call and I got in

485
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,400
a call with the lawyer and
explained the situation and he

486
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,040
was like, that's not voyeurism
dude.

487
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,720
He's like, that was a
conversation.

488
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,040
He's like Canada has a one party
consent law.

489
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,520
You can if I'm recording this
conversation right now and you

490
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,840
don't know that is not illegal.
And he's like, Are you sure he

491
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,520
wasn't filming upskirt footage?
And I was like, yeah, I will

492
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,520
swear on my life.
Did not record upskirt footage.

493
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,080
And he's like, then if if you're
telling me like the absolute

494
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,360
truth on this, then yeah, you're
not gonna get charged.

495
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:04,640
It's not even gonna make it to
court.

496
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,600
So that was a big relief.
And I was like, OK, great.

497
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,240
The the rest of the week, all I
like I the first thing I did

498
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,520
afterwards is I just Googled my
name.

499
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,400
I was like, am I in the news?
Yeah, I'm not in the news.

500
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,080
I was like, OK, the next few
days, same thing.

501
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,920
Every single day, multiple times
a day, Googling my name, very

502
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,080
unique name, Kasan Ellis.
I was like, OK, Google, Google.

503
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,920
OK, nothing, nothing, nothing.
Get to the Friday.

504
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,360
Nothing.
I was like, OK, great.

505
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Nothing's out there.
And then the next weekend was a

506
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,640
long weekend.
Me and a buddy hung out.

507
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,400
So Monday I was off.
I really started thinking about

508
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,280
like, OK, what am I going to do?
Like I haven't been charged with

509
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,120
anything.
I haven't been convicted of

510
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,640
anything, but like, what do I
want to do with my life now?

511
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,520
Like this was a scary situation
and I started thinking about

512
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,200
like how I was going to
straighten up essentially or get

513
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,960
better.
And then the Tuesday came around

514
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,640
and I'll never forget this.
So I I work as a digital

515
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,200
advertiser as well.
So I was working remote for a

516
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,440
company in the States and first
thing that happened is my boss

517
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,200
hits me up at 10:00 AM and she's
like, hey, we need to chat.

518
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,960
I get on a call first thing in
the morning at this point, like

519
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,280
I'd been the man at work.
Like I'm a manager at the

520
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,920
department.
I'm doing all this great stuff.

521
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,920
I'm like well, embedded in the
system.

522
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,560
I get the news that I'm being
let go.

523
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,400
Total surprise.
And I was like, why?

524
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,960
She's like, well, I'm just like,
your role is no longer

525
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,720
efficient.
Unfortunately, like we, we had a

526
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,200
talk just couldn't, we just
can't keep you on the team.

527
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,560
It's like, OK, whatever.
Like I'll get another job.

528
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,800
I'm fine.
I've got a great resume, I've

529
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,640
got a great reputation.
It's going to be OK.

530
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,040
That's 10 AM, 3:00 PM.
Best friend hits me up and says,

531
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:09,280
you know, you're on the news.
And I was like, are you fucking

532
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,640
kidding me?
The same day that I get let go

533
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,200
from work is the same day this
happens and and you're.

534
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,880
Sure that the news hadn't leaked
somewhere else earlier that that

535
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,320
so the losing the job had
nothing to do with the charges?

536
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,120
Absolutely nothing.
Total coincidence because the

537
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,520
news came out at 3:00 PM and
there were no other reports

538
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,920
anywhere and my bosses and my
entire team as either American

539
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,040
or South American and I'm in
Canada, so there is no way they

540
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,600
would have found out about it.
So just total coincidence.

541
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:49,000
And that entire week was just
such a weird week of like

542
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,840
contradictions.
So because I was such a, a, a

543
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,000
well liked person at work, like
they gave me a full week to say

544
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,560
my goodbyes remotely.
And it was everybody was like

545
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,680
messaging me and I was messaging
everyone.

546
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,080
Everyone was like, I can't
believe you're getting me and

547
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,560
let go.
You shouldn't be.

548
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,160
This shouldn't happen.
We're all revolting against

549
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,040
this.
It was like this big thing where

550
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,240
everyone was really angry and
people were giving me such love,

551
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,360
and it was this giant love bomb
of just everybody loving me.

552
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,960
Meanwhile in my personal life,
everybody is distancing them

553
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,040
themselves from me and
everyone's like, I can't believe

554
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,200
you would do this.
What the hell?

555
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,920
I would try to explain what the
situation was and people were

556
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,720
like, this is still very
sketchy.

557
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,120
I'm going to have to take time
to process, which is

558
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,320
understandable.
It's a complicated situation,

559
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,160
but I remember just having this
week where I was like, I love

560
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,280
you so much, I can't believe
you're going away and stay the

561
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,400
hell away from me.
So the stay the hell away from

562
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,240
me vibe.
Did that continue for the months

563
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,720
it took for the charges to be
dropped?

564
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,240
For the most part, yeah.
There are only a select few

565
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,320
people who really knew the
situation that like I would say

566
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,720
for the the most part, the
people who knew who were close

567
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:16,160
to me were extremely supportive.
The people who said I need time

568
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,400
to process came back a little
later and said like, yeah, I'm,

569
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,520
I'm, I'm down to keep a
relationship going.

570
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,360
I'm down to keep talking to you.
And there were some people who

571
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,040
went the way they responded, I
was like, I can't keep you

572
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,840
around in my life.
Just the way you you handled it

573
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,800
was just a betrayal of my trust.
And did this impact you finding

574
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,880
work as well or or not?
So that's the interesting thing

575
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,360
it, it did and it didn't.
So it, it stopped me from

576
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,520
working as an actor for the, the
duration.

577
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,280
I called my agents immediately
and I explained to them, hey,

578
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,280
I'm on the news and it's really
sketchy.

579
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,320
But I didn't do it.
And because I have a good

580
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,960
rapport and and good
relationship with my agents,

581
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,520
they immediately supported me
and they're like, no, no, we

582
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,200
understand.
We'll still keep you around.

583
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,080
Just keep us updated on the
situation and let us know when

584
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,200
things are dropped.
So I because of that, they were

585
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,640
also telling me like you can't
audition because if you book

586
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,120
something, there's a morality
clause in all the contracts and

587
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,440
we'll need to be upfront about
any kind of legal issues that

588
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,280
you have.
So could not audition.

589
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,920
All the work that I was doing as
a filmmaker completely paused,

590
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,160
and because I was looking for
work, I was avoiding companies

591
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,280
in Toronto 'cause I was like, I
don't want anybody to Google my

592
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,760
name in Toronto.
I ended up finding work through

593
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,680
American companies.
And the interesting thing is

594
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,160
because I'm in the industry, I
go by Sam LSI as an actor and a

595
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,520
filmmaker.
So if you type in Sam LSI

596
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,000
completely untouched by the
story, you see an LSI, on the

597
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,760
other hand, totally tainted.
So it's one of those situations

598
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,600
that's funny to me in a weird
twisted way, where it's like my

599
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:09,159
birth name is stained, but my
fake name is totally fine.

600
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:13,360
It's squeaky clean.
So you seem in a good space

601
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,520
about all this now, but like
how, how rough were those months

602
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,320
of, of having having friends not
believe you or at least not sure

603
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,960
about you or, and all that sort
of stuff?

604
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:26,000
Yeah.
Terrible.

605
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,360
I, I would say the first two
months were high.

606
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:39,400
Like I learned that drama is not
a linear, a linear path to, to

607
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,040
salvation like it takes.
It's, it's a very much of A

608
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,120
roller coaster ride.
And it was so many sleepless

609
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,679
nights and so many nights of me
like treating myself like shit

610
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,040
and telling myself, you are a
piece of shit, like you deserve

611
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,639
this.
And then other times where I was

612
00:34:56,639 --> 00:35:00,200
like, OK, no, like you had to
build yourself back up.

613
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,920
And it was also the the hard
part about it was going outside.

614
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,120
I mean, when your face is on the
news.

615
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,280
And I live in a pretty happening
neighborhood in Toronto.

616
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,000
So people saw the image.
I was kicked out of bars.

617
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,600
I had people giving me dirty
looks on the streets.

618
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,400
My neighbors gave me dirty
looks.

619
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,360
So it was the situation where I
was like, I don't want to be

620
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,760
outside.
So I had to teach myself how to

621
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,000
be social again and give myself
a form of exposure therapy to

622
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,600
get comfortable being outside
and being around people.

623
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,760
I mean, it took me like 3 months
to just get comfortable on A

624
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,440
streetcar, on a bus.
Cause the entire time I was

625
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,080
sitting in there thinking
everybody knows, everybody is

626
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,960
looking like panic, panic.
Red flag, red flag.

627
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,800
Get the hell out.
And prior to this experience had

628
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,280
had you had, you know, issues
with, with paranoia or anything

629
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,400
like that before, before this?
Not to this extent.

630
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,080
I mean, everyone deals with, you
know, ideas or like their

631
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,360
imagination running a little
wild, but it's easy to tame.

632
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,600
This was a situation where it
was drama was taking over and it

633
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,520
was like, get out.
Like, this is too much.

634
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,280
So it was a very measured
approach to getting myself

635
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,960
comfortable with everything.
The same what's what's the

636
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:22,680
lesson to you?
What do?

637
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,080
What do you take out of this?
Well, I mean, the first one, I,

638
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,120
I definitely learned something
about consent from filmmaking.

639
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,920
That was the very big one.
Because at the time, again, I

640
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,920
thought it was not a big deal.
But I had a few people in my

641
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,520
life and a few strangers that
I've met and told the story to

642
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,880
who were like, Nah, that's
pretty sketchy.

643
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,920
And I was like, OK, you know
what?

644
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,480
I really have to think about
this.

645
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,040
And once I did and I realized
how messed up it was, it was,

646
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,240
it's a lesson that still sticks
with me.

647
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,280
Like I can't watch YouTube
content anymore.

648
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,960
If it's like somebody is
starting a conversation, if I

649
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,960
don't know that they've gotten
that approval or that that

650
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:12,200
release form from somebody #2
the big one that I learned, I

651
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,280
really did learn empathy in this
entire process.

652
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,280
I learned that empathy is a
superpower here.

653
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,880
One, being empathetic to myself,
like really allowing myself to

654
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,080
make the mistake and
understanding that it doesn't

655
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,720
define me.
But then also very much early in

656
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:35,040
the process I was because I was
so hurt.

657
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:40,680
I was angry at a lot of people
and I that's where I could have

658
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,640
easily jumped into some of the
fringe groups and become a total

659
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,080
asshole.
And I had to teach myself, no,

660
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,960
like, this is an opportunity to
actually be better because of

661
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,440
this.
And something else I learned

662
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,320
from this is the idea of power
as well.

663
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,360
And power is such a difficult
word to use because it gets

664
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,720
abused and used incorrectly.
There's a difference between

665
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:13,520
having power over someone, which
is sort of the standard

666
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,560
definition of power, and then
what I learned is being

667
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,760
empowered.
So having the power of your own

668
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,680
choice.
So from this experience, I

669
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:30,960
learned I do have the decision
to to decide how I want to live

670
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,360
or react to the situation.
I can either be an asshole to

671
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,920
everyone.
I can choose this to be a total

672
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:45,360
ruthless son of a bee, or I
could take the moment to realize

673
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,800
that I have more options, which
is essentially what being

674
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,400
empowered is.
It's realizing.

675
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,320
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I am stuck in
the situation, but there are a

676
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:55,920
lot more options than I give
myself credit.

677
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,640
What's your relationship or
attitude to the police at this

678
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,120
point?
I've got a lawsuit happening

679
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,880
with them, obviously because
there's defamation with this.

680
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,720
And it's so difficult because
what the police officer did was,

681
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,720
was wrong in the sense that he,
he did not follow protocol and

682
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:18,720
really investigate what was
going on, especially when

683
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:20,560
evidence was so clearly on our
side.

684
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,680
But also he was defending women.
He was defending a woman.

685
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,680
And he he thought he was doing
the right thing by protecting

686
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,240
this woman from from somebody
who is being creepy.

687
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,840
You do see your actions as being
creepy.

688
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:43,000
I see the, the, the act of
filming, especially with the

689
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,080
hidden camera as creepy, like
going up to somebody.

690
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,280
I've, I've gone back and forth
with this a million times.

691
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,560
Like, is it creepy to go up to
somebody and say, hey, I think

692
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,400
you're cute or I thought you
were really attractive or

693
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,440
something to that effect.
And I kept going back and forth,

694
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,360
back and forth in my head about
this.

695
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,160
I've come to the conclusion now
that no, it's not.

696
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,000
As long as you are coming in
there with good intentions and

697
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,600
you are, you have the intent of
having a conversation.

698
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,600
Where it doesn't become a cat
call where you're not like, hey

699
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,440
baby, what's up?
But you're like, hey, I came and

700
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:21,600
tried to start a conversation.
And as long as you understand

701
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,920
the cues that make someone
uncomfortable, whether they

702
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,600
verbally tell you or you can
sense them and you leave on

703
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,240
those moments, what you are
doing is not wrong.

704
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,320
It's actually very human.
You're just having a

705
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,800
conversation with them.
Something else that I did learn

706
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,360
and I want to touch on and I
think is great for this podcast,

707
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:44,240
it is the idea of vulnerability
and authenticity.

708
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,760
When the situation all went
down, I kept trying to shield

709
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:56,760
myself by being angry, by
deflecting, by trying really

710
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,520
hard to suppress my feelings and
be a quote UN quote man about

711
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,600
it.
But the way I healed from the

712
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,520
situation is allowing myself to
feel the emotions that I did and

713
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:15,200
allowing myself to to not feel
like it's a weakness to be, you

714
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,320
know, to be emotional about it,
to be sad some days, to be angry

715
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,080
some days.
To have these feelings come

716
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,160
through me is human.
For sure.

717
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,480
Yeah.
To be honest, since you were

718
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,520
charged and and they stayed, it
took eight months for them to go

719
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,840
away.
Like I would assume there was

720
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,360
some evidence or mistaken
evidence that yeah, you're

721
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,280
you're upskirt shooting.
But and so it and charge would

722
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,080
be dropped.
Yeah, I would even if I knew I

723
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,400
was your friend.
Like you're you're doing more

724
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,480
than you're telling me, bud, you
know, and are you are you facing

725
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:53,800
that?
Are people telling you that?

726
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,960
Oh my God it's so funny you
mentioned exactly that.

727
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,240
So one of my friends from
college reached out to me.

728
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,680
I so I put out a statement on
social media explaining once the

729
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,320
charges were dropped and
everything was was handled, one

730
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,520
of my friends reached out to me
and I just saw him last weekend

731
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,440
and he was like, I saw the news.
I saw there was a video camera.

732
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,760
I thought they absolutely have
video evidence.

733
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,720
There's no way they put this out
without video evidence.

734
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,920
And I trusted their word for it.
And he's like, I'm so sorry.

735
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,680
I should have known you so much
better, he think.

736
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,920
The entire time I was like, how
can Ghassan do that?

737
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,560
That's not him, so it's I.
Again, I don't blame people for

738
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,080
jumping to the conclusion
because the media does work that

739
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,680
way.
And did your relationship with

740
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,200
this coach continue after you
you come out of jail or?

741
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,240
Absolutely not.
So again, because I did not

742
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:52,480
trust him initially, I don't
trust him going forward with

743
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,360
anything else.
And what's crazy about the coach

744
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,280
is he hasn't.
He hadn't been arrested prior to

745
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,440
this, but he didn't have
anything on him.

746
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,200
But he just had like creepy pick
up videos on YouTube.

747
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,400
But two weeks after my charges
were dropped, his face showed up

748
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,200
again on the news.
And this time it seemed a lot

749
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,960
more nefarious.
It said that he was following a

750
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,040
woman into the bathroom with a
camera, with a cell phone.

751
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,960
Again, because I've gone through
this, I'm not jumping to

752
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,960
conclusion.
I'm not going to be 1 to say

753
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,600
that's exactly what happened.
But I mean, it seems a lot more

754
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,000
damning than walking on the
streets.

755
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,240
So no reason for me to talk to
him again.

756
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:36,920
Is the the the strong point
there?

757
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,280
So how?
How long ago?

758
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,640
When, when was the arrest?
What?

759
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:41,920
What, What year are we talking
about?

760
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,480
2023 So the arrest was July
29th, 2023.

761
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,960
The news came out August 8th,
2023 and my statement came out

762
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,520
August Wealth 2024.
And this is me.

763
00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:59,560
Finally going out with the
story.

764
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,040
How's the world treating you
now?

765
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,760
Do you still think some people
looking at you with with the

766
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,200
news from a year ago in their
head?

767
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,000
Or it will, I guess you might
never know too when when people

768
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,440
are looking at you.
So I've I've let things live as

769
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,560
they are.
I mean, if somebody thinks they

770
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,680
know the story, I mean, let them
think unless they bring it up.

771
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,320
The world has gotten a lot
easier for me.

772
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,800
I've gotten so much better at
socializing.

773
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,280
I'm still getting more
comfortable with expressing

774
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,560
intent and talking to women that
I'm interested in throughout the

775
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,120
day.
That's something that's never

776
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,920
gonna change.
I feel like that's very much

777
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,200
human.
But I'm working on a day in day,

778
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,920
day in, day out.
What I will say is there was a

779
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,600
moment where I was like,
everything is OK.

780
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,960
Like we're finally free from the
situation.

781
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,760
And it was like a couple months
ago where I was like, everyone's

782
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,160
probably forgot by now.
And then a friend of mine at the

783
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,120
dog park that I hang out with,
she's a bit of an older woman.

784
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,400
She, she knows the story.
And one day she came up to me

785
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,520
and she's like, hey, are you
gonna tell anybody about this

786
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,720
story?
And I was like, I'm planning on

787
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:11,000
it.
She's like, well, I, I would

788
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:16,320
probably say something because
somebody approached me and told

789
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:22,400
me, hey, do you know that guy?
So I was like, oh, OK, so the

790
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,960
news is still out there.
Yeah.

791
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,040
And and again, I get, I get it.
That makes sense.

792
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:29,480
And that's the humane condition
too.

793
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,880
It's.
Warning people the.

794
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,720
News that the charge is news
charges being dropped isn't as

795
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:37,400
big as news.
So people remember, oh, I'm the

796
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,160
only reason I know that guy is
because of this.

797
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:42,520
And yeah.
And also because I have such a

798
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,000
unique hair, it's very easy to
spot me.

799
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,480
So part of what we're doing
right now, because I'm a

800
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,080
filmmaker, is we are making a
documentary around this.

801
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,240
I am just a producer and the
subject in this documentary, one

802
00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:00,400
of my good friends who is a
documentarian is directing this.

803
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,120
And we call the documentary
Uncancelled.

804
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,800
And it's the process of
rebuilding the name and going

805
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,960
through how you get back your
name and all of this.

806
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,120
Yeah, part of a part of what we
are doing with this is showing

807
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,400
how difficult it is to clear the
name online.

808
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,920
And also like what is this idea
of being quote, UN quote

809
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,480
cancelled?
Yeah, your reputation is

810
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:33,520
probably permanently tarnished.
Yeah, yeah.

811
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,200
And part of it is I, I going
back to the whole idea of power

812
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,920
is I have the, I could go with
the route of trying to cover it

813
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,040
up and take down every single
article and all of that.

814
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,440
But this situation no longer
shames me.

815
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,120
I'm not afraid to speak on it
and speak about my learnings

816
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,760
from it.
So I am empowering myself to go

817
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,120
out and really get ahead of this
and go, no, no, you, you have

818
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,240
the news out there.
But let me tell you the real

819
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,080
story of what went down.
Yeah, it's still pretty messed

820
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,480
up, but there is a side to this.
So go saying, what's the best

821
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,040
way for people to learn about
what we're up to and and stay in

822
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,320
touch through through the
process of uncancelled and

823
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,880
everything you're up to?
Yeah, I'm working on this

824
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,640
documentary Uncancelled.
It should be released sometime

825
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,640
in October. mid-october we are
going to release it online.

826
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:32,240
If you want to stay up to date,
you can check me out on Medium

827
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:36,520
is where I posted my original
article of this this story and

828
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,240
where I'm going to be continuing
to post more content.

829
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,120
Awesome.
Well, I appreciate you getting

830
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,600
through that experience and not
and sharing it.

831
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,480
And I wish you good luck with
the documentary and getting more

832
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,600
work and and rebuilding yourself
to some extent.

833
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,600
It's hard to believe that you
ever had a problem being open

834
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,360
and vulnerable and authentic,
because that's that's all I get

835
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,160
from you.
Yeah, I know.

836
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,840
Again, it's what people usually
see.

837
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,800
And it's so funny to me because
I have these and This is why I

838
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,240
went through the journey is I
had all these skills.

839
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,440
I knew I could do this,
especially as an actor and a

840
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,360
filmmaker.
It's like, why can't I do this

841
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,880
with somebody I'm really
interested in or somebody I'm

842
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,160
really trying to get close to?
So definitely a journey man.

843
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,520
Yep, Yep, and it never stops.
So good luck with the rest of

844
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,320
the journey.
I hope the the roller coasters

845
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,480
are smoothing out now and you
get more enjoyable rides of your

846
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,280
choosing.
And and thanks very much for

847
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,520
joining us today.
Please visit Real Men Field at

848
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,880
org we'll have the only blog
post for this episode with all

849
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,520
the show notes.
We'll have links, everything

850
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,320
mentioned, and you can check out
the original article that

851
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,480
Ghassan mentioned.
And wherever you're discovering

852
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,960
real men feel, subscribe,
follow, like, share this for

853
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,520
someone else, post, review or
comment.

854
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,360
If you know that you are meant
for more and you're not living

855
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,600
it, consider booking a clarity
call with me.

856
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,360
That's a free conversation, the
andygrant.com talk.

857
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,640
You can always reach out to me
at realmenfeel@gmail.com.

858
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,200
And until next time, be good to
yourself.