Veteran Triumphs Over Silent Struggle: Winning The War After The War

0:00 The way the military programs you, they're not trying to program you to be an emotional healthy employee. They're trying to turn you into a killing machine, for lack of a better word. And killing machines are more efficient when they don't have, you know, emotions. So they're like, there is no real emotion here. It's basically like you're taught to keep smashing down that emotion and ignoring it because someone could lose their lives because you're distracted by your emotions. And what happens is the big issue is OK, that's how you you're going to function while you're in, but there's nothing to deprogram that when you get out.

0:41 Hello and welcome to Real Midfield. I'm your host, Andy Grant. Today my guest is Louis Stockley Junior, an Army veteran, father, coach and founder of Before 22, a movement built for the Warriors who are losing the war. After the war. Lewis spent 17 years in military and federal service, did everything he was supposed to do, and still found himself drowning in silence, emotional shutdown, and the pressure to keep performing while falling apart inside. Instead of pretending everything was fine, he turned his breakdown into a mission. Today, we're talking about what it really means to be a man in the world that trains us to suffer quietly. What happens when the uniform comes off and the pain shows up, and how men can reclaim their voice, their identity and their life before silence wins. Let's do it.

1:25 Hello, Lewis, and welcome to REAL Men Feel. I know you entered the military at a pretty young age. How old were you when you went into the army? I was 17, rushed out of high school. And how long did you serve? I served for about 6 1/2. Years. How did your experience in the military shape your definition of masculinity? For me, going into the military was different. I had had kind of like male role models, like I had an uncle, I had a couple of uncles that wouldn't spend time with me on and off things like that. But as far as a steady father figure in my life, I didn't have that.

2:05 But I did have tons of influences from the military itself because all those people served. My mom served stepdad who was in and out, served all those different people, served in the military, and so I looked at that as the way to develop myself to the next step. So when I joined the military, I was still figuring out what masculinity actually meant. I grew up. I had to grow up really fast because my step dad left unexpectedly. My mother had to pick up two jobs to cover for that loss of income and keep things moving. I picked up a job and stopped doing sports and instantly started giving all my paychecks to the household, helping to raise my sister who was seven years younger than me.

2:52 And so I came into it thinking that was the idea of masculine is do everything you can and don't complain. So naturally, I ran into lots of trouble in the beginning of my military career. Was the entire career kind of problematic? Were you clashing with things or or what were what were the issues? So in the beginning it was more like just learning how to be, how to be an adult. You know, all the typical things that you know a father figure would teach you kind of like be a man of your word if you say you're going to be here at this time or if you have the responsibility to be there and make sure their plan do all those different things.

3:34 I gained a lot of the military discipline and basic training, which was 13 weeks, and I knew how to be a soldier. But as far as an adult man, I still had no idea. And my first real lesson in that was when I made a huge mistake. I got stationed in Germany and it always starts with a girl. So there was a girl that I had met back in training and I said I'm going to go visit her. I was in the city of Mannheim in Germany, and she lived in a city called Stuttgart. And to get to Stuttgart is a very, very long train ride. So I said, OK, I'll come hang out with you over the weekend and see where you're stationed and, you know, we'll have fun.

4:20 And so I leave on Friday. I go there, no plan. I barely had any money in my bank account, even though just living life on the edge of the on the edge. And I had no plan on how I was going to get back. So on Sunday we had an amazing weekend. On Sunday, she drops me off at the train station. I'm like, OK, I'll be good here. First problem pops up, it's dark, the train station isn't active. I'm like, OK, what's going on here? So I go inside the train station, nothing's running. I managed to look at the schedule and realize that the train stopped running at like 4:00 PM on Sundays there.

5:01 So they shut down. I'm due to be back information in Manheim at 6:00 AM on Monday, but I have no way to get back and I have no power on the cell phone. We had Nokia phones back then, so that was like, you know, those phones would die really fast. Then I'd have the no money issue. So I couldn't use a pay phone to call or anything like that. Not that I'd be able to dial because I'm still fresh in Germany and have no clue how to do any of that. I sleep on a park bench right there in the train station listening to all the weird haunted sounds. Smelling the piss on the bench probably counts that, you know, lots of messed up people who were there and things like that.

5:46 I wake up to a train pulling into the station at 6:00 AM in the morning time. I'm supposed to be basically at work. I wake up, I hop on the train. Couple hours later I get back there, my NCO or supervisor, he gave me like the crazy. He cheered me out from left to right, just basically chewed me out, gave me every punishment in the book, which in the Army, you're doing push ups, you're doing sit ups, you're doing essays about how important it is to be on time. You're putting it on record giving you what's called a counseling statement. And I just couldn't figure out in my 1718 year old brain, I'm like, why is he so angry? You know, what's his problem?

6:32 You know, because I'm like, OK, I'm getting consequences and all that stuff, but what's his real problem? And I still talk to him to this day. And he was just really worried for my safety, like a father figured me. And he was really drilling into me the importance of some of these masculine principles. Like if you say you're going to be a formation on Monday, you need to make sure you know how you're going to be there, know the plan. And if things go wrong, you need to be able to get in contact with me because my responsibility is to make sure you're safe, not just out of a work role, but because you are the person that I'm responsible for. You are kind of like my childhood situation because I'm way further along in this career than you are. And so he chewed me out.

7:17 And back then, I was really, really angry about it, obviously. But, you know, as time went on and I grew, I realized that was like one of my first real masculine lessons from the military. So the military overall was was it more like positive lessons, at least in hindsight? It was mistakes, but but I guess one of my gifts was just learning from the mistakes. I made lots of different mistakes. Even in basic training. We ran every single day. You know, we ran every day for 13 weeks. Part of the training, you get up and you do your PT, you do push ups, sit ups in the organization and you go for a maybe a one mile to a three mile, four mile run. On one of these runs, we're going up this thing I called the Devil's Hill because it tricks you.

8:01 You think you're just going up this one hill and if you fight and get up that hill, you're good. But you get up there and you realize there's another hill and that one goes way up there. And so it defeats people, right? You get up to the first hill and you stop. But I was like, I'm not going to stop them to keep going. And due to me just not being conditioned enough, I'm hitting that second hill, trying to drive up the hill and I feel a pop over here in my hip flexor. And then massive pain ensues. And it was all I could do was to jog and kind of limp. And so we're all running together in this formation, you know? And instead of being in the middle of the formation where I was, I had to go to the back of it, which is where the people who are almost about to quit, they go to the back of the formation and they start just fading back as everybody just keeps going.

8:51 We all know the route, so nobody gets left behind. But it's kind of, you know, a shameful thing. So I basically ride it through that tear. It was a partial tear. I would say if it was a full 1, I probably wouldn't have been able to even limp. That happened that Week 2. I went through the other 11 weeks with that injury just at night, just agonizing with it, trying to stretch it 'cause you know, it'll get tight and it'll swell up. It'll do all sorts of stuff. That was the most pain I've ever felt ever. And I just felt this. I just kind of I learned one negative thing from it. One negative lesson was to keep pushing through the pain no matter what happens, Whereas sometimes it might be time to go get that looks hat might be time to go get that fixed. But then the other lesson I learned is how what does commitment really look like?

9:45 You know, and it's to say, and my commitment was, I can't go back home. You know, things were not good with my mother. There was no success there. The people that I grew up with were into good things back in my hometown. And I knew if I went back there, I'm going to get sucked into all that again. So I said, OK, I got to commit to this. It's either do or die. I'm going to do this now or not. And so I kept going. The injury hardened over and I just kept moving forward, just kind of learning lessons from things that went wrong like that. So I've heard you say that when you left the service, it was like being dropped off in the deep end. What was that deep end for you? The deep end for me is like this. From the perspective of going into the military at 17. I never truly had the adult experience outside of the military.

10:38 Also, I go through and I become an adult going through the military, which it's different because they kind of provide everything for you, right? They give you the structure, they feed you, they pay you, they give you health benefits and all that stuff. All you have to do is fill out forms and things and all those things are taken care of or even a place to live for the most part. I basically on my last year and a half, I was deployed. That was my first ever deployment in the military. So me and my wife, we who I had met in Germany, we, we get stationed at Fort Campbell. I go through six or seven months of a training exercise with my unit and then we deploy over to Afghanistan. We spend all that time there and when I come back, it's already time for me to get out.

11:27 And so I get out or start this terminal leave. You just cash in all your leave and you're still getting paid until the leave runs out, basically. So I take my terminal, leave and I get out and all they basically did was hand me a checklist. They didn't really check on my mental state, physical state or anything. They said here's all the gear that you have that we've issued you. This is what we need back. These are the different places you need to go. Talk to this financial person, this person, that person, and they're all like, you have any questions? And I'm like, I don't even know what I don't know. It's to ask the questions that need to happen and they're like, OK, great. They just check you off on the list and you and your goal, your mission for the last few weeks you're in is just to get through that checklist and then you get out. And I knew what my plan was.

12:18 I wanted to join the government, you know, and be an IT doing that, which is what I did in the military as well. But beyond that, I had no idea what I was in for. I had no clue even how to sign up for health insurance, for example, and I had no real experience going and applying for jobs like interview, doing all those things. So it was really like I had to learn all that stuff and I had massive amounts of pressure to learn it because my son was on the, I got out in June. He was set to be born in December. So he ended up being born December 27th, which is, you know, a couple days after Christmas. But I felt this pressure to just figure it all out. So I would make lots of mistakes and people would take advantage of that too.

13:06 Like we needed health insurance, My wife needed to go to OB appointments, obviously do an ultrasound and do those things. And he, I called like a 1800 number, told him the person on the line, my situation, and he was basically like, yeah, I'm a veteran. You know, I can relate to what's going on here. I'll help you, right? I'm like, OK, He said, he's a veteran immediately to me, no world experience. I'm like, I'm just going to trust this guy that he ain't saying everything he's going to do. And so he's like, OK, so for this insurance plan, you pay us around 5 grand and I'll set the plan up for you. The cards will come in the mail. You take her to her first appointment.

13:47 You're good. So without even thinking about it, we pay the five grand, the cards come in the mail, we go to the appointment, we have the ultrasound, We have this amazing memory, you know, seeing my son on the screen and print out the pictures and all that heartwarming moment. And then I hand them the cards again. They're like, let me take another look at that. And the lady is kind of perplexed by it. And we're like, OK, what's going on? She goes, takes the card to the back, the lady in the back calls us back there and asks us to sit down and she said this car doesn't cover any. So whoever gave you this insurance screwed you over big time because from right now until the birth of your son, it's going to cost you around $30,000 ME. No world experience, no job yet, you know, savings are starting to run out, all that stuff.

14:39 And I'm faced with that $30,000 bill and just struggling trying to figure it out. And I just had to keep running into situations like that. Like we figure that out eventually, obviously, you know, because my son's here and we're not still paying a bunch of money to something. But I finally keep grinding because while I was deployed I've been working on my bachelor's degree because I knew if I want to get in the government going to have that. I had like 2 months left before I finished it and I was already out of the military still trying to get in the government. Something told me just keep applying anyway, keep trying me with no experience how it's supposed to work. I kept applying and I ended up getting a job offer to go to DC.

15:23 We're in Fort Campbell, KY so we have a house that we bought there. We had to buy the house because of how big my family was with the wife kids and we had dogs that we brought with us. Nobody would let us rent an apartment anywhere and rent a house because the dogs are pit bulls. We had two pit bulls or, you know, they thought they were like dangerous breeds like a German shepherd or whatnot. And my, we're big animal people. So we're like, no, we're not going to abandon our dogs just so we can rent a house. So I'm like, I've never bought a house. I'll figure out how to buy a house in two weeks. I bought a house. I said we need somebody to help us manage this property or put somebody into rented so we can move out there because we're going to be paying two mortgages until we can do that.

16:07 So I go to the property management person and I'm like, I need some help with the house. Duh, duh, duh. And he's like, I'm a retired Sergeant major from the Army. You know, trust me, I'm a veteran as well. So again, me I'm like, no, he said he's a veteran. He had he was a high-ranking guy. He must be a leader, really trustworthy. I'm like, OK, cool. He signed on the dotted line. He says I'll put my best employee on this, my son. So I'm like, OK, that sounds legit. He's going to have his son, you know, work on this. And so we leave and Long story short, they didn't do background checks on the people it brought in. They put in a convict wanted in like 3 different states.

16:49 Apparently him and a buddy pulled up to a Walmart, held up an old lady at gunpoint, took her car and all sorts of stuff from her and just ran and just left. And so they had warrants out for this guy and everything. And again, this is me with 0 experience about how to deal with stuff like this in life. Trying to just make it, trying to protect my family, feed my family, all of that stuff. Just you know, it felt like I got dropped off the deep end. We figured it out because I ended up working for the Department of Justice and I quickly gathered up connections and the local PD didn't care. They were like warrants, not in this state, so good luck. I didn't care These people were in the house. So I, we had to fire the property management people and I got the creative idea to call a local FBI office down there in Tennessee, told them that I'm with the DOJ, you know, I need a little help here, a little law enforcement help, you know, from one thread to another.

17:53 And I said, could you guys do something? So they called the local PD and the local PD listened to them and swung by the house and it spooked them so bad that they left. They abandoned the house. And it was a guy. The guy had the warrant for him. It was his girlfriend and three kids that were in the house. And we had tried to get them out before because they weren't paying rent and the property manager wasn't doing anything about it. So, you know, we got them out of the house, but they left a dead dog in the backyard. So all these different experiences are happening in my mind. I'm attributing this to, man, I can't trust veterans anymore. I'm getting to that point where I'm ashamed to be a veteran. If this is how we act when we're out, you know, I can't trust them.

18:40 Can't do any of that stuff. And so that's when I really started to feel like isolated. I didn't even want to put on a job application that I was a veteran anymore or talk to other vets. I was like, I'm going to just try to be at full on civilian and go through my life that way. I know you said you used the phrase I'm good during all this time, So what did you, what did I'm good mean for you? What it meant for me is that I would just keep moving and anything I was feeling in my mind, I would just keep distracting myself, brother. And what was always prevalent even since high school childhood, whatever was video game. So I'm playing video games and fighting for my life basically at the same time, trying to keep booger on the table, fix all these different problems and stuff, and just pour my emotion into whatever distraction I had, which was bad. Just video games essentially.

19:37 If anybody ever asked what was going on with me, that's that would be the answer. You know, I'm all right, I'm good and nobody would really argue with that obviously because I kept myself kind of isolated and on paper it looks good, right. I'm working through the federal government. I got to the point where I was the youngest executive in that agency making probably about 130 KA year and. Just really killing it in my 20s doing getting awards and accolades and stuff like that. So in my mind, I'm looking at all that stuff, all those lists of achievements and I'm like, I have to be good, right? I've got all this stuff got on you going for me?

20:17 You know, it just came crashing down for me because I had this list of goals to hit. One of them was that dollar amount hit that 130K and I'm sitting in my, my office there in DC and I'm thinking, and I'm look and I find this word doc that had the list of goals checked off and stuff. And I see the 130K and then I look at my paycheck and I'm like, oh, I hit that. There wasn't a single goal after that. And so my mind, this quiet question popped up. That happens for a lot of veterans after they think they achieved what they they achieved what they think they wanted. What's next? And when I didn't have an answer for that question, man, I was floored. That's when my mental health hit the ground. It just tanked.

21:03 And so in order to cope with it, I said, oh, I play video games, they feel good, let's play more video games. So my life became, even with a wife, young kids and stuff like that, it became work and video games. That's all I had space for is to to try to bury everything I was feeling in video games. And that went on for years, thousands of dollars into these games and all sorts of stuff. So what finally ended that? What ended it for me is deep down we know as men when we're doing something wrong and what we run for is we run from when we're doing the wrong thing. Is accountability like obviously right as the one thing that will make you stop in your tracks. My wife was obviously going to be my accountability partner and she is Russian and Serbian.

21:53 So she will never hold back, right? She will make sure, but I didn't give her the opportunity because I hid how much I was truly spending on these games. All she saw is I was spending lots of time on it. The bill came in the mail one month and it was thousands of dollars spent in a month on just games. Like there was nothing palpable there. Nothing like none investments or anything like that. You know, it was just spending on games because they just weren't interesting enough to keep this, this distraction going. I had to keep getting more and more and more. And she saw that and she was shocked. You know, she was like, you know, we could pay more bills with this.

22:33 We can put more food. We could do all these different things. And you spent all this on games. And she put her foot down and she said, you got to go. And so I did. I packed up a duffel bag. I went to a hotel. And well, and you know, typically most guys, they might be stubborn, it'll take them a few weeks to figure it out. Took me one night. I was like, do I really want to? Cuz cuz I have this flashback of all these times that I'm really sure that it's not like I didn't try to stop playing the games. It's kind of that addiction pattern of I would play for a couple weeks, feel really guilty, try to cut it all cold Turkey, last for a few days and then get right back to it again. Like, oh, problem must be gone.

23:16 Let's go back to it and fall right back into the same vicious pattern over and over and over again. So I'm having memories and flashbacks of all those times where I'm playing games. There was even a time where my wife was pregnant in Germany and she's sitting next to me, probably just wanting attention and all that and not saying anything. And I'm just playing on my computer. Just playing on my computer for hours until she decided to just go to bed, you know, and all these memories are coming back to me and I'm feeling all this guilt and all this weight. And then it's kind of like God was like, God was like, all right, now we're going to show you 2 possibilities. Kind of like that Christmas story, you know, where here's this, this possible future and here's this one. And here's the future where you're sitting in the basement somewhere renting a room and all you do is play video games all day.

24:06 Your kids hate you, your wife divorces you. That kind of lonely life where you're not fulfilled at all and then here's the other life where you're actually achieving things that make you feel good, you feel peaceful, you're OK with your life and the games actually don't exist. You don't feel the draw to them. And you know, I chose the, I chose the other one. I chose the latter because I'm here talking to you. I probably wouldn't have gone through their extensive improved self improvement journey that I've been through for the last 10 years if I hadn't made that one single choice. So I called my wife. I say I don't know what this is going to look like, but I think I need to make a major change. I'm done, you know?

24:48 So I said I don't know what to do next, but first thing I'm going to do is come home and sell every game, delete every game, do whatever I can to get all that stuff going. And I did. I went home, I grabbed all this stuff, threw it in a trash bag, went to GameStop, said what can you buy from all this stuff? They bought what they could from it, you know, and the rest I just threw away. I just I left that GameStop and threw the rest in the trash can and I still had the challenges because I have AIT guy. So I have a computer all the time with me. I have a phone all the time with me and there's always games there. So the next step was me and my wife decided was I need to get with a therapist.

25:29 I find some kind of therapist to help me go through all this. And she did, she, she essentially kept working with me every single week, just working with me to continue to stay off of them because I quit cold Turkey just straight up. And she had suggested go through like a 12 step program or something like that. But I'm still in my head, like I'm a veteran. I got to do this alone. So I didn't do that. And it's so I worked out OK. I, I kept going. I never went back. So it's been many, many years since I've ever touched a game. I learned some valuable lessons about being a man. One of them in that beginning of working with this therapist was vulnerability. That's something that's carried me through all the way to now, you know, is just to be vulnerable about what you're going through.

26:17 So the first place I got a master class in doing that was sitting down with my kids, you know, and my wife together and just telling them your dad is an addict. I know you guys love to play video games, but when I touch a controller and when I play a video game, it's going to go to a whole nother level. So I'm feeling all this shame and embarrassment as I read, as I reveal all that to them. And I'm thinking like, the kids are going to think, you know, I'm failed them as a father and they're going to hate me and all this stuff. And they were more like, how can we help you with that? You know, what can we do instead? And that kind of almost brought me to tear. Then I'm like, wow, OK, that's true love and support right there.

27:03 I never experienced that. And so I was like, sure, you guys can play games. I'll be happy to sit around you while you play them. But I can never join in with you anymore. I can't do that. I can't take part because if I do, I won't be the father, you know, and remembering, I'll go back to being that guy. So I, you know, we did that. I did the vulnerability thing and then I went even deeper. I'm like, man, I, I just, I need to do something because all I'm doing is working. And then I come home and I'm just there with my thoughts there with all the emotions I've been burying from being deployed and all that stuff. I need to do something.

27:44 So my mind went back to when did I feel the best? When did I feel the best? And it was when I was deployed with my brothers. We would get up every morning. We would do P90X workouts. So we do those old P90X workouts in the morning, they're on base. We would go work out in the gym and hang out stuff. And I'm like, that feels like it would be good thinking about doing those. So I'd go download a bootleg copy of P90X workout and I start getting up at 3:00 every morning before work and I just start doing those workouts. I realized I felt really good. It felt like I was back with them again, even though I was by myself. And so I realized that's what I was searching for was just more of that.

28:28 So then I started listening to motivational content while I'm working out and I start taking the training even further. And I go online and I find out there's calisthenics. You know, where you can do all this crazy stuff with your body, almost like you're a gymnast but not, but you know, you can be more expressive with how you work out. So I start training calisthenics and P90X and all this stuff gets too easy. I just start building on these things, discovering that there's really more to me than what I thought and getting healthier. Now the the key piece that really taught me everything that carries me to this day was when I had the opportunity to help my first person.

29:09 Me and my wife had a friend from Germany, was a military guy as well, military policeman, and his situation was even crazier than mine. I only deployed once in 10 years. He deployed every other year. Every other year as a military policeman is insane because your job is to protect the base so that you could be dealing with car bombs, people trying to bum rush the entrance, all sorts of hectic stuff that you're dealing with all the time. You know you're not going to sleep well, everything. So he comes out obviously with massive problems. He comes out around that time frame, goes to New York, His family's not supportive. His father passes away as well.

29:51 We would have been his only support person that could probably understand what he's going through. Passes away. And me and my wife were like, we just felt like we had to do something. So she, she's always the one with the spontaneous ideas. She's like, well, Thanksgiving is 2 weeks from now, invite him over. They're like, invite him over. Like stay with us over the holidays and stuff. He's like, Yep, I'm like, all right, why not? Screw it, you know, we'll do that. And so he did. He came, stayed with us over the holidays, slept on the couch. He had sleep apnea. So the kids got a kick out of his snoring every night. It's just like a great train in the living room.

30:31 And the kids kind of brought him out of the shell. You know, when a kid comes and grabs you and says, let's go play with trains, let's do all this stuff, you can't, you can't stay Mr. Serious forever. So, you know, they pulled him out of the shell. He was 300 lbs when he came. So he was overweight, obviously depressed, PTSD, the whole 9 yards. I'm still working on myself at the same time because I'm like, I have no clue how to get back to where I need to be. So I'm just going to stick with my routine of going down in my basement, grinding, working out, listening to motivational content, reading and things like that. And I get up, sneak past him every morning before I go to work and start doing that.

31:14 And he kind of wakes up, you know, when I looks at what I'm doing for a week and then the next week he comes down and says, what are you doing down here, man? I'm always hearing the music going and all that stuff. And I'm like, I'm just working out, you know, I'm just grinding, working on me, trying to get back to where I need to be. And he's like, can I join you? And so I was like kind of uncomfortable with it because that have been my, you know, had been my my little sanctuary for so long where I feel like I'm growing and getting better and I'm like, should I really have somebody else join in with this? But I'm like, sure, man, go ahead, let's do it. And so he comes down, he's struggling through, you know, the workouts with me and stuff. And we had some amazing memories and I just would keep pouring into them.

31:58 It just came from somewhere. I'm like, I don't know where this is covers from, but let me say it to him and motivate him and help him. And so you can imagine a lot of the crazy stuff we did, like he was £300 and I had this little dinky stand alone pull up bar. And so he does his push pull up on that and the bar is just bending and crying for life. And he he, that's the first pull up he ever got in like a long time. You know, like he used to be a bodybuilder so he knew all the stuff, but he hadn't felt it before. And he said that felt amazing. And so he's getting more in shape as we keep going because we stayed through January as well. And we're up at 4:00 AM one morning in front of my street with the the two lane Rd. that's usually empty, doing wind sprints from mailbox to mailbox, just yelling.

32:49 And it's, you know, amping each other up like soldiers would usually do. Just having a great time waking up the neighbors and stuff. We just by the time we were done, it healed a piece of me and he got to a place where he was really good too. And he said, so I, I instinctively or intuitively, which is how I usually coach people when I was coaching, is ask them like what, what's the goal you have for yourself? What do you want to do next? You know what, what is that? And he said, you know, I really want to serve again. I want to be a policeman up there in New York. So I'm like, go for it, man. Just apply, see what happens. So when he left out the end of January, went applied to be in the police Academy, he was in shape. He was down from 300 to 200 lbs.

33:35 And you know, it fit and everything because he was eating the way I was eating. He was working out the way I was working out. And they told him no. They said you got PTSD on your record. We just don't trust it, you know, psychological wise. So they told him no, but because of all the things we've been doing, he was resilient. And he said, OK, maybe that dream isn't it for me. And he became head of security at a psych facility and just started doing that, helping people stay safe in that facility and kept doing that. And he still works different types of security positions and stuff to this day. I still talk to him. He's actually going to come this Christmas possibly as well. So he has a even, he's even a single father with a daughter now. And you know, I like to think that that's the first person I truly helped and, and figured myself out in the same process too.

34:28 There's two guys, two men just grinding it out, figuring our shit out, you know? So is that really when you discovered the power of brotherhood and the power and the good feelings that you being of service, being being a coach brought to you? Well, it's kind of like it. It woken back up because that's what the military builds you on, Brotherhood and sisterhood. Because when you're deployed, if you don't have that kind of connection where you would give your life to the other person, it's very likely that the mission isn't going to be successful, which is what the military's thinking like. So they're like, how can we get these people to bond as strong as possible as quickly as possible? We're going to put them in the same uniform. Do what's called fear bonding.

35:11 You're all going to do crazy training and experiences together and go through all these things together so that we can build this tight, cohesive team. I just didn't know that's what was happening. And then it just kind of woke up when I'm working with him, like, oh, this feels really good, you know? And that's when I was like, OK, that's part of the puzzle that was missing. Cool. I want, I want to go back to when your wife kicks you out and Yep, I 'cause I, I think it's miraculous that this was a positive turning point for you instead of a death spiral, which is what it is for so many other men. So what do you think it was that that made you make the best out of a really poor situation? I don't know, I just have this weird way of thinking, like family kind of calls it mind over manner. And I was thinking like, what do I want? You know, because I've been there before the other side where I'm alone, playing video games, living this life I hate because that's what my life was like in high school. I didn't take part in any of the activities in high school except prom.

36:16 When I quit sports, all I would do was work and go to school. And so I knew what that felt like already. And it was kind of like, I don't want to go back to that anymore. And so in my mind, it became a very simple choice. You know, yeah, this is going to be painful and hard, but you've dealt with painful and hard before. So might as well go right back to it and and see if it makes your life better because the other option isn't going to be worth it at all. The way I equate it to is this one question is it's something I taught other people that I coach to, and it's am I going to quit now? Because when you ask yourself a question, like, even if you don't mean to get an answer, your mind is going to immediately answer for you. It just slips right through the veil, you know, can't get filtered out.

37:04 And so you ask yourself that question, am I going to quit now? The answer is going to be no. And so once the answer becomes no, your only option at that point is to begin to think of solutions. And you start thinking of options and solutions instead of quitting then you're moving forward then. Come on. Yeah. That our brain really exists to answer questions. So it is all about. Thank God you're asking more uplifting questions. If you know, if I was in that situation, I would have been asking like, why does everything suck so much? Why what I screw up did get here and and that would be part of that spiral down. So I'm glad you didn't go there. And it you know, hearing your story, it really feels like love is what you got to go the the love for your children, love for your wife, the love you knew existed for you very. True.

37:51 Yeah, cool. Very true. That was it too. Yeah. Because I think, yeah, I think if it was just me by myself facing the same challenges, I probably would have ended up going all the way to being homeless. You know, like I think I just didn't want to let them down as well. Why are so many vets terrified to talk about what's really going on for them? There's a lot of different reasons. Some of them could be like me. We had lots of bad experiences and we're afraid to open up because we've been shown a few times or time and time again that when we open up even just a little bit or try to, you know, let ourselves open to trust something or someone, we get let down.

38:38 And so as a soldier that we are, we know serve and we're depended on and all those things. So we're going to just, we're going to smush it all down and just keep driving forward not realizing there's an expiration date. So there's that. Then there's the the way the military programs you, they're not trying to program you to be an emotional healthy employee. They're trying to turn you into a killing machine, for lack of a better word. And killing machines are more efficient when they don't have, you know, emotions. So they're like, there is no real emotion here. It's just focusing on the mission, though. It's basically like you're taught to keep smashing down that emotion and ignoring it because someone could lose their lives because you're distracted by your emotions and everything like that.

39:31 What happens is the big issue is, OK, that's how you you're going to function while you're in, but there's nothing to deprogram that when you get out. So guys will continue that way until they can't anymore until so or until maybe somebody's able to reach them and get them to see, OK, we got to start making changes. Yeah, there, there. There's no opposite of boot camp, No, no healthy exit camp that would really stick you up. So tell me about before 22. So the 422 is based on that premise where there just isn't. There's just a huge gap there where guys are getting out of the military, they're getting out by surprise, they're getting out 'cause they think they want to or they're planned to.

40:18 And once they're actually out and the structure and camaraderie and everything in the military is gone, they feel like they're dropped by the wayside. That void shows up, that darkness in your chest shows up. Like you, man, I missed that. I wish I was back there cuz now this doesn't feel very safe, secure anymore. And I don't know what's missing. And so Before 22 exists to put words to those emotions and those feelings that are coming up, but not just leave you with that, not like hand you that and say, OK, that's how you're feeling. It's kind of like leading you to OK, so if something's missing, what's missing? And so we try to teach them about purpose, try to teach them about finding a brotherhood because we have the group Before 22 that we try to bring people in there. But we're like, if you don't go there, find some place like that, you know, try different things there. And Before 22 is essential, a shot out in the darkness that speaks so deeply to what you're feeling that if you've been struggling, we call them silent warriors. If you've been a silent warrior struggling for a long time, just keeping quiet about it, just something about our message makes you wake up and decide, OK, I'm going to say something or I'm going to ask for help.

41:38 And so many times we'll see in the comments section, people are just saying, like, we had a guy come in there a month or so ago saying, you know, I'm just thinking about taking my own life already, you know, but I don't want to leave my family behind. And I'm not sure what to do to get help, you know? And so like, that's just one example. But that guy, he served in the military, got out, became a firefighter. So that's even more stuff that he's dealing with. And he's an active, he was an active firefighter. And there they have this thing where they're linked to your health insurance. So if you try to use your assurance to go get some type of psychiatric or psychological care, it will flag you and they could review you to remove you from your career just because you tried to go get help for your mental health. And so he he telling us that like, I need help. I don't want to lose my family, but if I try to go get this help, I'm going to lose everything. You know, I'm going to lose my livelihood and I'm going to be able to feed and support my family. So it's like a huge catch 22.

42:47 We were like, holy crap, I always find help. We, we did, we, we made so many calls and we found places where it's like if you pay cash, we don't need to go for your insurance at all or anything. We'll have a bed available. You take some leave, you come stay with us. You get yourself together, you go back to your life, found a place with a bed open for him and he got the help he needed. But those are the gaps that are out there for these soldiers that come out of the military. They feel like they're dropped out of the wayside and they'll just sit with that. And me, luckily I naturally progressed to going through all that stuff. I did have moments where I thought of taking my own life as well, but I luckily was I had people that would do things like they one guy convinced me to go to this three-week program. That program ultimately saved my life because I sat down first person I sat down with when they flew me out there to stay at this program that I thought was going to be all about getting a fitness cert, but it was really about, you know, psychological health and things like that along with the fitness stuff. I sit down in front of the psychologist, His name was Johnny, and he's just got this upbeat energy and he's just talking to me like I've never been talked to before, just asking me about stuff because of me going there. Put my marriage on the rocks.

44:09 My wife was like, you're leaving us to go do this. And I don't understand what's going on. I couldn't tell her. I'm thinking about not being around anymore, so I need to do something. So I just had to make the choice to go get that help and put it back together when I can't. Hulk. So I'm feeling all that and he can see it and he's speaking to me about all that. He's like, don't worry about it man, we'll figure it out as we go, blah, blah, blah. But then what stuck with me was at the end, he was like, all right, man, you're going to do great here. I'm here every single day. We're always going to be talking. I love you, brother. That's what he said. He looked me straight in the eyes. And he was like, I love you, brother. And that was the first grown man ever to say that to me. Isn't that crazy?

44:52 The first grown man in my entire life to say, like, I love you. And I didn't even know what to do with that one. I was like, OK, yeah, I just walked away back to the table, but thank you. But that, yeah, it stuck with me, man. And I was like, why? Why am I? Why is that feel so awkward to me? Why does that that's something that was like amazing. You know, I want to just, that just shook my entire foundation. And I try to create, I want to create experiences like that with Before 22. And I want to do it at the level of social media because there are veterans always in the middle of the night scrolling looking for something. And if I can hit them with the right video at the right time, and that's another life saved right there. Before they even have to go sit down in front of a therapist, before they're even figuring out what to do and they're maybe thinking they don't want to be around anymore. I can get a message to them.

45:56 And then if they, they usually are compelled to reach out if they're at that level of pain. And then I have the opportunity to route them with the different resources that we're building and linking up and setting up and things like that. And we're also, and the thing that's controversial about before 22 as well as we're not a non profit. Oh, everything, every resource I get and create is going to go towards helping veterans and allowing me to keep helping them. But I'm doing it running it as a business because I had the benefit of seeing inside a lot of these veteran nonprofits And the well is like dry, you know, like I tried to get guys help and stuff like that. And they'd always be like, we don't have space available.

46:39 We don't have resources, we don't have money. And I'm like, if we had a viable product that did that, you know, was like a win, win. Did this for that person that paid and gave you the resources to help. That would be it. We could make as much resources as we need and never have to hear no when a guy comes and asks for help. So I said before 22 will be about making apparel and spreading these messages. And now the apparel will be an extension of the messages being spread because when you wear the shirt before 22, it says the mission is to survive or whatever other stuff I come up with. You know, people will ask, especially veterans because it kind of speaks to them, you know, on a deep level. It'll be like, what's that about? And you can be like, go check out this video. This is what it is.

47:25 And then that's another person that maybe needed some help that will be able to get it, be able to join the group, find a brotherhood, find something. It amazes and saddens me still that, you know, we're encouraging men to be vulnerable, to tell them it's OK to ask for help and get help and you're worthy of support. And then there's still aspects of society that will punish them. You know your job at risk, you put your family at list, you put your livelihood at risk. It's it's fucking horrible. So what? What is the meaning? What is before 22 mean? The statistic used to be that 22 veterans a day were taking their own lives. It's more like 60 now. the VA just doesn't keep track of it because when a veteran takes their own life, the death certificate isn't typically reported to the VA.

48:14 They're not clamoring to get that statistic or information either because that means that they're failing at their task of protecting and helping veterans. So but 22 a day is the coin term that is well known across veteran communities and law enforcement and 1st responder across the, you know, social media. So we said we want to catch you before you become one of the 22. So you came with the 4/22? So if there's a guy out there who's obviously shutting down and in trouble to the people around him, but he's staying silent, what's some advice for for his friends, for his family?

48:54 What? What can they do to help him? The advice is to have courage because I've actually helped a few families that way as well, where sometimes you'll get the guy that's quiet and reserved and depressed and would just be like, you know, I'm all right and just melts away. But then you'll get the other kind that gets defensive but loud and tries to kind of scare you away. And it's like, as a family member, you don't have to sit there and take the face value answer just because it's awkward or it's going to be a tough conversation. And you can kind of feel that in your soul. You can be like, no, what's really going on?

49:34 I know something's up, so let me know what's going on. And it takes one family member usually, like one of the last one was a black sheep, you know, his sister, you like, you know what, what do I need to do? And it was kind of like she's going to yell, he's going to he's going to throw a tantrum. He's definitely not going to hurt you. He loves you, but he's trying to scare you away because you know, he's got all this trauma and stuff going on. But what you're going to do is keep bringing it up. If he throws the tantrum, sure, go ahead and go away. But when he comes trying to talk to you about something else, you're just bringing up again and again until he was like, all right, fine, I'll go talk to somebody and mission accomplished. Then you get him to the next step where he'll at least speak to somebody.

50:20 Because what's scary, that's the other thing I teach families, is if he's showing emotion, whether it's sadness or fear, frustration, annoyance, anger, any of those that's that's actually a good thing. They're like, that's good. And I'm like, yeah, it's good because the worst place that they can be is an absence of emotion. Apathy. When you're apathetic, when different thoughts come into your head, they become truths, they become fact. So the thought of maybe it'd be better if I'm not around anymore. When you're in the place of apathy, that's when that decision becomes an action. More likely the barrier between just a thought and taking an action, that barrier is just dropped. And so if they're at that place where a lot of those things just don't bring them joy anymore, or they don't want to play video games, they don't want to go out anymore and and they just seem like an emotional robot, that's the place where you want to try to figure out how to get them to feel something again. Lewis, what's the best way for people to connect with you, follow you?

51:26 Best way is on any of the platforms you can find me is Vet Coach Lewis or you can find the organization as before 22. Both sides of the same coin. I speak personally from my experiences on Vet Coach Lewis and I teach everything I learned as a coach, coaching entrepreneurs and and business owners and professionals and stuff. I just put it out for free on there just trying to help as many as I can. And then on before 22, those are voice over AI videos completely written and designed by me with the imagery and everything like that, that will speak to somebody who's struggling or somebody that needs a new perspective in the effort to help them see themselves in the video and say, OK, me write something, let me comment.

52:17 So if if you want to connect with me, that's great. But if you do find someone that's struggling, just tell them to search before 22 and take a look at a video at the top end. They'll probably connect with that message quickly and realize maybe this is something I should look deeper into. And finally, Lewis, what do you wish more men knew? I wish more men knew to to don't beat yourself up because nobody hasn't figured out 100%. And so the best thing that you can do as a man is to try to get around those you feel are further ahead than you are and give yourself grace for the mistakes that you made.

53:00 And not to say that you don't feel anything from making the mistake and you're not going to try to correct it, but it's a lot easier process if you don't beat yourself up over it because you have to look at your life, the life of those that came before you. And I look at my parents, you know, the father, my biological father, he's kind of emotionally disconnected. We have a good relationship, but he's not as connected as emotions or as vulnerable as I am. He's coming along, you know, talking to me, but you have to say they worked with everything they had available to me, all the tools and all that stuff. And you're doing everything that you experienced and all the tools you had. You're doing the best you can what you've got. So just try to figure out how to do more and learn more and be around the right people.

53:50 Awesome. Oh, man, I'm so glad that you got over your fear of trusting vets and they're now helping them. And you found the joy of service in how it can reward you and all the people you touch. We, we need that. We need an army of Lewis's. Thanks for joining us today. And thanks to Louis Stockley junior. He's living proof that the war inside ends the moment Amanda sides to stop hiding and start speaking truth. If something in this conversation woke something up for you, don't let it fade. Don't go back to I'm good. If you're not, check out Lewis's work at Before 22. And if you're a man looking for community connection and a place to take the masks off without judgement, join me inside Authentic AF, my online men's community. We have men's groups, guided meditations, real conversation, and a space where you don't have to pretend. Visit realmenfield.org/group and step inside. And until next time, be good to yourself.