Vulnerability Is Strength: Break Free from the Man Box

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You you have emotion.
Why would you then none of it

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have any emotions.
You know in the hip hop world,

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we like to say this thing y'all
keeping it real.

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That's not keeping it real,
saying you don't have any

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emotions.
You don't want to talk about

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them.
That's fairly that's we don't do

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that.
You got to talk about them.

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Hello and welcome to Real
Midfield, the show where we

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remind men that it's OK to be
human.

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I'm your host, Andy Grant, and
today I'm honored to welcome

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Dawood Wallace, a speaker,
entrepreneur, and powerful voice

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for emotional Wellness,
especially among Black men.

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Dawood's story is 1 of courage,
caregiving, loss, and healing.

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He's someone who's lived the
heartbreak of grief and the

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isolation that can come with
being the strong one in the

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family, but he also knows the
freedom that comes from the

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vulnerability.
His book, When a Brother Needs a

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Friend too, is more than a book.
It's a lifeline for the men who

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feel unseen, unheard, or alone.
This episode is all about being

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real.
We talk about caregiving, grief,

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mental health, masculinity, and
what it means to truly be there

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for one another.
And if you're looking for a safe

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space to be real, to be heard,
to connect with other men on the

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journey, I invite you to join
the authentic AF community at

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realmenfeel.org/group.
It's free and it's built for men

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like you.
Let's do it.

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Would you write and speak with a
real, raw honesty?

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When did you first realize that
your own emotional Wellness

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needed attention?
You know, it was, it was a it's

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a strange long road.
Like I said, the whole kind of

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premise of the whole book was my
mom got sick when I was 14.

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And you know, at that age you
don't know what you're doing,

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right?
You're 14, you're in 7th, 8th

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grade and you just want to play
video games.

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Back then, I'm dating myself,
but we was just heavy into like

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Mortal Kombat and NBA Live and
stuff like that.

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NBA Jam.
So when you see a you see a

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mother getting sick, you don't
realize the back story, right?

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But then you see your dad, who's
super strong, super smart and

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really a loving guy, really go
through some wild things, right?

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And, and, and he's trying to
process stuff.

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Now Fast forward 30 years later,
I have a buddy that's going

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through something similar, but
one of his parents has

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Alzheimer's dementia, another
parent had cancer, and I saw him

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take care of both parents and it
was so gripping, moving, and

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troubling to see that he
couldn't get his emotions out

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'cause he was basically felt
like he was all alone.

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So now as I got older, I'm
trying to chronicle.

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Chronicleize those moments and
situations and understanding

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prospects, my feelings and
emotions at those times.

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And and what made you want to
Share your story, not just for

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your own healing, but to help?
Other brothers, you know, it's

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guys in itself, right?
Just by nature is to keep stuff

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bottled in, right?
That's just the whole nature.

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We're told to just sit down, be
tough, be emotionless and all

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that BS.
And I saw that we needed some

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healing.
I needed healing.

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I knew my story wasn't unique.
I'm not that special.

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There's a lot of people going
out there going through these

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tough, traumatizing times and
they need a guide.

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And if I can help them, if
podcasters like you and other

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people can help, especially men
learn how to adapt, adjust and

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kind of get their footing in
these trauma traumatic moments,

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I think it could help.
I, I really do.

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I think talking helps.
I think books helps.

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I think podcasts help.
There's a lot of resources out

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there.
We just need to, you know, get

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in tune with them.
And how has your own experience

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with grief and caregiving shaped
what you see as what a real man

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is today?
Yeah.

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And you know, as a real man is,
it's of course, built off of

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strength.
That's our foundation as men.

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But the strength isn't hiding,
right.

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The strength isn't putting that
mask on.

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As I talk in my book, that mask
is corny.

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It's weak.
It it's phony.

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Really, it's a fake.
It's hiding head in the sand, if

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you will.
The real strength is facing your

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stuff.
The real strength is

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understanding your emotions to
it.

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Not running from your emotions,
but controlling your emotions

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and getting, getting arms around
your emotions.

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Understanding that trauma
happens.

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It happens to me, it happens to
you.

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It's going to happen to Billy
Bob, Raheem, Tanami, all of

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them.
So but how do we adapt to them?

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How do we adjust them?
How do we get our arms around

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them so it doesn't make us sick,
it doesn't make us upset,

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doesn't make us hard to be
around.

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You know, I find when you're
going through trauma and going

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through drama, you become like,
you know, people don't really

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want to be around you, All
right?

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Your girl, your spouse, whoever,
your homeboys, whoever, they

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don't want to be around you
because they can feel that

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negative energy that's coming
off you.

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So I, I just wanted to get my
point out there and help as many

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people as I can.
You help one of them, you help

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1000, right?
So.

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In, in our first conversation,
we, we talked a bit about the

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man box and I've heard lots of
guys.

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So the the man box for anyone
not familiar with the term, it's

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just that that constriction of
the rules of society, which says

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a man should be.
And you said you believe that

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black men have an even tighter
man box.

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The regular box is 6 feet.
Ours is like 2 1/2 feet.

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It's, you know, and it's, it's
normal.

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It's just the reality of the
situation.

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There's no drama.
There's no, you know, beef or

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anything.
It's a drama situation that

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black men have a a different
flow on a different vibe in a

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different way.
We have to navigate this society

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and it becomes very
constrictive.

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And I think that's what you see
in a lot of the the anger, the

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fear, the doubts sometimes come
with those constrictions.

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And it starts very young.
That just started 303525, it

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starts at 8-9.
And when you put in those boxes,

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you either, you know, kind of
adapt to those boxes or you

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fight those boxes.
And that's what you see

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sometimes when you see those
emotions come out.

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So we need to loosen those boxes
up.

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And for all men, those boxes
are, they're just there.

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So we need to find a way to
navigate those boxes if you

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will.
And what are some ways that that

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men can can break out of that
box or at least loose?

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Yeah.
So first thing is having a

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moment of self reflection,
knowing the situation that

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you're in, knowing that it's
going to be a tough battle.

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So anyone who thinks it's going
to be easy battle, anyone that

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thinks, you know, I can just,
you know, if I won the Powerball

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tomorrow, my battle's going to
be easier.

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And it's not going to.
This battle was, you know, the

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toughest, this man versus man
that's inside of us, right?

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So you got to first of all, know
who you are, self reflect,

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realize the battle that you're
in, keep a level head.

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And I'd like to always think you
should gain some spirituality,

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foundational stuff.
And I start talking about my

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religion.
Whatever you believe in, Muslim,

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Christian, Jewish, whatever,
whatever you believe in, there's

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a foundational spiritual base.
And once you get that, you can

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probably navigate many things in
life because you'll, you'll be

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able to submit, you'll be able
to also understand your power.

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But those, these take time and
these take lessons.

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There's no class in learning how
to navigate the man box, right?

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There's no, you know, there's
geometry class, there's PE, but

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there's no how to, you know,
navigate that man box.

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So we got to start teaching
this, especially even younger

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high school, middle school.
It's tough to learn this at 30

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when you should be learning this
at 8-9, you know?

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It's tragic that an 8-9 year old
is already being molded to be

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smaller than they really are.
Yeah, no.

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And and it's and it that's type
of stuff is perpetual.

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So it keeps going.
So you carrying that from 8-9

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and you're 17 now and you like
and you really starting to

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become an adult into the real
world.

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And you, you got these artists
wait on you.

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It's like a albatross.
It's like a anchor and some

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people, it's tough to get over.
They never get over that.

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And that they're just, you know,
the fall by the wayside will

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never get over that part.
Did your father raise you in the

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box?
My.

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Father is super like he's, he's
super interesting because he is

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first of all, he's brilliant.
And I'm not saying that

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brilliant because he's my dad.
Like I'm biased a little bit,

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right?
But no, he's actually an Ivy

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League, right?
And he got like 80°.

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He's a PhD, he's brilliant in
that part, but he's, he's one of

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the rare people that actually
cares about others.

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Like he, some of my friends, you
know, they might not have had

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fathers in the household.
And he would take all of us in

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and I would ask him as I got
older like that, why did you

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take a liking or take a, a, a
point to bring all my friends

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in?
He was like, I didn't just see

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them as friends, I saw them as
people who needed that type of

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father figure influence.
It wasn't about them being your

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friend or your buddy.
I mean, not help, but it's about

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helping others.
It's about caring about each

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other.
And like I said, so in instance,

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my dad wrote a manual in 2001,
I'm kind of piggybacking off

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that flow, but I'm updating it
for my generation, updating for

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what I've seen in my
experiences.

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But he is just, he's brilliant.
He's super great.

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He's just strong and just, well,
he told me that I could be

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anything, but he wanted me.
He wanted me the major in

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economics, so that I had the
major in economics.

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That was his only one caveat
when I went to college, so.

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I I wonder what emotional
isolation looks like for black

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men.
Well, how much time do you have?

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Such a weird thing because black
men are super unique to this

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experience and not unique, in
fact, that a lot of black men

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are taking care of spouses, are
taking care of parents.

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And we don't see anything,
especially in the media that

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that goes over that part of it.
And isolation is real.

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The isolation is, it's
troubling.

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It's, it's scary and it's, it's
a lot of fear and doubt, right?

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Like I, I know it's cliche to
think about just how black men

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interact with the police
officers, right?

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And that's, that's a weird,
that's a, that's a real thing,

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but it's, it's a real thing on
both sides.

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It's a real thing that there
needs to be classes taught on

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how to interact with law
enforcement and vice versa on on

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their end, too.
There needs to be interactions

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on how to involve how to
interact with teachers and when

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you're in public in a certain
way.

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And it's, it's just so layered
it, it really is layered.

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There's many different avenues
and schools of thought on that,

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but it's just layered and it's
not going to be a book.

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It's not going to be a person to
do it.

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It just takes small steps, very
small steps of being in control

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of your emotions and
understanding where your

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emotions are coming from.
Yeah, being being black in

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America is still challenging.
And so I imagine that at

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especially at the young ages
that a lot of that that man box

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having you keep control of your
emotions, keep things to

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yourself is really passed on to
keep them alive.

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The fear, that doubt, that fear
that it's generational, right?

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Like that fear and stuff is
generationally passed down from

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your great grandparents all the
way to you and you see these

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things and that trauma is passed
down.

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I think it's studies show that
trauma can be passed down

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through that mean the DNA and
all that stuff.

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So it's, it's extremely tough,
but you have to just wrap your

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arms around it, really control
your emotions.

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And I think you can help by
knowing where your emotions are

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00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,920
coming from, right?
When we're, when we're hearing

225
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,720
that fear and that doubt, that
anxiety, that stress, we got to

226
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,800
kind of wrap our arms around and
take a step back and say, why am

227
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,560
I feeling these things?
Like, why am I so stressed out?

228
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,920
Why am I not a happy person to
be around?

229
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Right?
Why, why am I not moving,

230
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,480
getting the exercise that I
need?

231
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,280
Why am I move it to chemical
dependencies and stuff like

232
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that?
So it's, it's, it's a process.

233
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It's truly a process and we must
trust the process.

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00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,600
So your book is called When a
Brother Needs a Friend too.

235
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,760
What would have been the ideal
friend for you growing up that

236
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,400
would have perhaps made
caregiving or watching sick

237
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,080
parents?
What a friend that would have

238
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:47,720
possibly could have made that
easier.

239
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,160
That's a great, that's a super
great question, Mr. Grant.

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Just a friend that will listen.
You know, as men, a lot of times

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00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,880
we try to solve problems.
That's part of our, you know,

242
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,200
our, our DNA is to solve
problems.

243
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,960
This is, this is not about
solving problems.

244
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,280
It's about listening.
It's about understanding.

245
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,160
It's about getting out of your
own personal ego and

246
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,120
understanding the other person,
what they're going through.

247
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,840
And that's kind of the situation
I had with my, my, my buddy

248
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,960
Mikey, who I interviewed for my
book.

249
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,080
I just wanted to like be a
friend to them, not trying to

250
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,680
know the answer.
I have no idea how to take care

251
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,640
of a mother with dementia,
right?

252
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,800
That that's there's, like I
said, once again, there's no

253
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,120
class in that.
All right?

254
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,080
I don't go after social studies
class and didn't go to how to

255
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,480
care for an aging parent, right?
So just being there for them,

256
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:42,920
getting out of your own ego and
listening, which is a skill and

257
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,280
most people I know I didn't
learn to listen to much later in

258
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,560
life.
We just want to talk, we want to

259
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,520
help people, We want to give you
my opinion about stuff.

260
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,200
No, just be a friend for them.
Listen.

261
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,800
Listen.
What would you say to someone

262
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,680
that says it's you know, it's
just not cool to talk about my

263
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,920
feelings?
I would say, you know, that's

264
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,160
wack, that's super wack and you
need to get out your own

265
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:10,320
feeling, get out your ego and
that's corny.

266
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,040
You you have emotion.
Why would you then none of them

267
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,320
have any emotions.
You know, in the hip hop world,

268
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,520
we like to say this thing, y'all
keeping it real.

269
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,360
That's not keeping it real,
saying you don't have any

270
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,120
emotions, you don't want to talk
about them.

271
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,240
That's fairly that's we don't do
that.

272
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,360
You got to talk about them
because what happens is you'll

273
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,520
find out your buddy has the same
emotions, he's going through the

274
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,240
same thing or you find out this
guy, that guy, that guy, and

275
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,200
we're all kind of going through
the same thing and many hands

276
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,520
make life work, right?
That's in the Bible, I believe.

277
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,720
So if your emotions are going
through that, maybe, you know,

278
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,680
this person can help you get
through that.

279
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,280
And it's it's like you said,
that man box, that whole ego

280
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,920
that, you know, I don't, I don't
need to talk about this and this

281
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,440
and that it it's so phony.
It's corny.

282
00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,400
Very.
So if vulnerability is strength

283
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,320
and the real strength is taking
off that mask, are there any

284
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,400
current kind of role models of
that new sense of masculine

285
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,400
strength that you see I.
Mean it's a great question.

286
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,400
You know, it's tougher in
today's world with the social

287
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,120
media aspect of people can't be
themselves, right?

288
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,680
And the people who are
themselves get ostracized for

289
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,200
being themselves.
So they they almost look that

290
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,040
like, yo, you're too much, You
know, you need to you need to

291
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,600
fall back a little bit.
But I'm sure there's many people

292
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,200
out there.
Let me think of a couple a

293
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,720
person who shows great strength.
That's a that's a really good

294
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,800
question.
You got to get there's there's

295
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,400
many of them because yeah, I'm,
I'm huge into sports.

296
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:48,360
I'm thinking about like my all
kind person is Muhammad Ali and

297
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,920
it's so I I wasn't, you know, I
wasn't around for Muhammad Ali's

298
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,880
heyday, but I've read every
single book.

299
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,240
Me and my buddy collect his
posters.

300
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,840
I even have his comic book when
he fought Superman, really

301
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,320
thought so.
But the strength you write, the

302
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:07,120
strength of valor, the the
ability to be emotional but not

303
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,080
be over the top with it.
His strength was incredible,

304
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,760
especially when he's going
through a situations.

305
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,760
And I always tell people
Muhammad Ali lost 3 or 4 times.

306
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,920
So it wasn't that he was
undefeated.

307
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,360
That's not what you remember
about him.

308
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,320
You remember him getting back
up.

309
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,120
You remember him fighting again.
You know, and always tell people

310
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,720
when my favorite quotes is you
know why Muhammad Ali's the

311
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,760
greatest?
Because he told you he was.

312
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:39,120
It's a message in.
There yeah the so the example I

313
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,800
my go to example is is the raw.
Dwayne.

314
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,560
Johnson right, 'cause there's,
there's no doubt he's a man,

315
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,520
he's huge, he's tough, he's all
the traditional stuff.

316
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,960
But he also feels and he emotes
and he talks about the pain of

317
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,160
losing his dad and you see his
letting his daughters covering

318
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,520
him in makeup and stuff.
And you know, he's, he's not

319
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,320
living in a box.
He's totally not living in a box

320
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,960
and that is one of my favorites.
He's he's awesome.

321
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,119
He's Did you watch the TV show
he had?

322
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:06,200
Oh yeah.
Yeah.

323
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,760
And that showed like, like you
said, the vulnerability with his

324
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,760
dad, who maybe they didn't have
the greatest traditional

325
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,640
relationship, but it was love
there.

326
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,760
And now as he's got old, he's
probably understanding where his

327
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:22,319
dad was coming from, right.
And no, Dwayne Johnson is he's

328
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,040
he's he's a beast man.
He's a beast.

329
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,560
And a culture that kind of can
glorify hustling.

330
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,000
How can Black men make their
mental health, their emotional

331
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,600
well-being, a priority?
It's a great question.

332
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,520
It all starts internal and I'd
like you said, I would love to

333
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,360
start it much younger in life.
I just, I, I feel that a lot of

334
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:48,400
these things happen in vacuums.
When you're 3025, I just think

335
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,800
it's too late then I think
you're already formed.

336
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,800
I would love to see mental
health.

337
00:17:54,760 --> 00:18:00,840
I would love to see mentorship.
I would love to see just growth

338
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,800
and understanding at a very
young age and, and started the

339
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,600
church.
If you started school, if you

340
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,360
started after school programs,
right?

341
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,600
If if we played a lot of sports,
right, and you know, we played a

342
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,800
lot of sports where I'm from,
the DC area, we played

343
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,120
basketball.
It's like the greatest

344
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,240
basketball hotbed in the whole
world.

345
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,520
Why couldn't we have mental
health classes?

346
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:25,720
Why can't we do peer reviews and
and stuff where we're teaching

347
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,080
each other how to be in control
of our emotions?

348
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,000
I think, I think there are
programs out there that are

349
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,720
starting and I think that should
be a more national initiative.

350
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,800
I really do.
And I can say they can start a

351
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,600
church.
You can start a sports leagues

352
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,920
that started school.
There needs to be way more hands

353
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,120
on at a younger age about
wrapping out arms around mental

354
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,160
health and not making that
stigma, though.

355
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,960
This is corny.
This is you know, you're, you're

356
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,160
being weak by saying you're
emotional.

357
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,640
No, you build your stink off of
vulnerability, right?

358
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,840
Like keeping it rivolous,
keeping it right, and being in

359
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,360
control of your emotions.
You shouldn't be upset at the

360
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:07,360
everything that happens, right?
That's not strength.

361
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,600
Strength is knowing why you're
upset.

362
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,920
Focus on that and fixing that.
So controlling your emotions

363
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,120
doesn't mean not feeling.
That doesn't mean denying.

364
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,000
You I'm, I'm gonna get that
tattooed on my forehead because

365
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,400
I think a lot of people confuse
being emotionless.

366
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,880
That's why that's not real,
right?

367
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,720
Yeah.
We have emotions in everything.

368
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,160
If I'm, you know, we get
emotional about football games,

369
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,360
we get emotional about
everything.

370
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,920
But you can't get emotional
about some really major stuff

371
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,200
that's happening.
You just want to, I'm cool, you

372
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,440
I'm good.
I don't care about that.

373
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,440
That's wack.
It's super corny.

374
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,320
And you got to keep that energy
away.

375
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,360
That's that's not good energy to
have around you.

376
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:57,040
So how do you think we as men
can help each other to to open

377
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,240
up, to share, to be strength, to
be strong and vulnerability?

378
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,560
Yeah, accountability.
And it's so tough.

379
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,640
I know, it's so tough, 'cause
we're taught this from day one

380
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:12,000
that we're born to be strong, to
to, to, to bottle our emotions

381
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,280
up.
Super corny.

382
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,640
I hate it.
We have to held each other

383
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,520
accountable.
We have to.

384
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,440
My father holds me accountable.
My friends hold me accountable.

385
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,560
My brothers hold me accountable,
right When they say, yo, you,

386
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,120
you, you're doing the wrong
thing.

387
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,280
You bugging out, tripping right
now.

388
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,520
I have to take that as no,
they're not hating on me.

389
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,160
They love me.
They care about me.

390
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,480
I need to relook in the mirror
and understand what's going on,

391
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,200
control myself.
It starts with accountability

392
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,080
and that's, it's a small word,
but it's huge.

393
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,480
It's massive.
And a lot of people just in

394
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,560
general, people don't have a lot
of accountability.

395
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,640
We hide from that accountability
part of it whether this friends

396
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,360
men need to hold each other
accountable, right.

397
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:04,080
We need to just talk more too.
There needs to be more talking.

398
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,960
And then I think I've read a
study right now is the most

399
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,760
loneliest time.
And did you did you read this

400
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,960
before this?
It's like, I guess with the

401
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,440
Internet and all this stuff,
like people are aren't talking

402
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,800
like they're not hanging out.
They're extremely lonely.

403
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,840
And when you lonely, you're
going to do some crazy wild

404
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,160
things.
You gotta really get a nice

405
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,000
collection of friends and hold
each other accountable and maybe

406
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,640
go out and have a cigar.
Maybe go out and talk.

407
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,000
Just talk to your brothers, talk
to your friend, talk to people.

408
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,080
I'm huge on talking as you can
see.

409
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,120
You know, and one thing about
accountability, I always shunned

410
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:44,640
it.
I didn't.

411
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,000
I didn't want accountability
because to me that meant blame,

412
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,680
right?
Right, but but we can't fix or

413
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,800
change anything if we don't take
accountability for it first.

414
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,360
And it's such a like you said,
like you said, Mr. Grant, it's

415
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,000
such an easy step, but such a
long step too.

416
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:04,600
We got to be accountable.
And it's man, it it it's almost

417
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,200
like humans are anti account
accountability.

418
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,080
We're just we're so we're so
bramish.

419
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,640
Yeah, so, but like you said, and
I guess it has to start younger.

420
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,360
It has to start younger.
It's, it's tough to get that

421
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,760
when you're 3525.
It's because you, you've already

422
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,680
made fun of form, right?
And you've already starting to

423
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,680
think that accountability is
like someone's blaming me and

424
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,120
I'm blaming myself.
And it's not bad, you know.

425
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,160
What sort of legacy do you hope?
Not just your book, but the way

426
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,640
you live and lead what?
What sort of legacy do you hope

427
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,680
that is leading by?
That's a great question, Mr.

428
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,560
Grant.
I hope I was the three FS like I

429
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,040
really do.
I hope I was firm.

430
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,640
I hope I was fair.
You know, I, I, I, I mean,

431
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,120
you're firm meaning like you
stick to your guns, you stick to

432
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:56,600
your principles, right?
You don't, you don't get, you

433
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,160
don't get lost off your
principles, which can easily

434
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,520
happen, right?
You know, and I, and I hope I

435
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,520
was firm.
I hope I was fair.

436
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,160
I, I really do.
I, I think one of the things I

437
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:11,280
study is stoicism.
And I think Marcus really says

438
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:17,840
be firm with yourself, but be
lenient with others and

439
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,080
basically saying other people
make mistakes and that's not up

440
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,400
to you to judge them, but you
need to stick to your

441
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,040
principles, stick to your
firmness.

442
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,440
And the last FI hope I'm fun
like I I don't I don't take

443
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,480
myself so serious where I can't
make fun of myself and I can't

444
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:35,880
make fun of someone else.
Right.

445
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,280
But it's not meant that a malice
fun.

446
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,120
It's just meant to lighten the
mood.

447
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:45,160
I think when the mood's lighten,
I think people open up more.

448
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,720
I think their shield comes down
a little bit.

449
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,880
So yeah, I just want to be firm,
fair and fun.

450
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,120
And if I could have those
legacies, if I can be

451
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,960
accountable, if I could be a
positive person and create

452
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,040
positivity with people.
And I think I I've done good, I

453
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,960
think I can live with myself.
I do those things.

454
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,480
Yeah, fun is definitely
underrated for all adults, but I

455
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,520
think especially men.
Like I would love to see fun and

456
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,640
joy become more of the more of a
the foundation of masculinity.

457
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,440
No, 100% we, you know,
especially today's time, so much

458
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,200
drama stuff going on and you
know, you read the paper well, I

459
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,880
don't know people read papers
anymore.

460
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,320
I'm dating myself again.
But you read Twitter then you

461
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,120
know, all the social media sites
and everything is so doom and

462
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,800
gloom and it's like it's it's a
wild time, but it's still a fun

463
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,520
time.
Figure out where you're fun is.

464
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,920
Like I said, I enjoy cigars,
right?

465
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,880
So am I getting my buddies
wherever we go, get a cigar,

466
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,280
just catch up, just, you know,
shoot the breeze.

467
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,280
Hey, what's going on?
How's the family?

468
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,600
What's this going on?
How's the job?

469
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,800
How you feeling about this?
How's your parents?

470
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,000
Right?
As we get older and our parents

471
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,240
are all aging, we got to figure
out that aspect of it.

472
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,080
So fun is super important and I
think people need to have more

473
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,360
fun.
If you could go back and talk to

474
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:11,080
yourself during your times of
heaviest grief, what would you

475
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,800
say?
Hey, he going, hey, he going

476
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,880
deep for me, man, going deep for
me.

477
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,680
I would say, yo, everything's
going to be fine.

478
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,920
This moment, like anything else
will pass.

479
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,600
But you have to embrace that.
You have to really embrace that

480
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,720
this moment is a tough moment
and you're you're built tough.

481
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,480
You can handle this.
It's going to be some sad days,

482
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,680
you know, and unfortunately, one
of my, I lost my grandmother

483
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,000
during COVID and my grandmother
was super important to me.

484
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,840
You know, back then with COVID,
she couldn't even have a

485
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,880
funeral, right?
Like the funeral was literally

486
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,080
on video, like, you know, 5 or
10 people could show up.

487
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,560
When I think about those moments
that that's tough.

488
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,120
It's still tough for me today,
5-6 years later.

489
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,800
But you got to, you know, you,
you're built for this, you're

490
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,360
built for this.
You have the vulnerability and

491
00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:10,480
you have the accountability and
just, you know, stay firm what

492
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,440
you believe in your principles,
have your spiritual foundation

493
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,240
face what you're facing and
it'll all it, it, it'll, it'll

494
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,680
crystallize and real galvanizing
you will be a better person for

495
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,600
going through these situations.
What do you hope people take

496
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,480
away from reading your book?
The I I hope they would take

497
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,720
away.
Here's a guy, right?

498
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,040
I'm, I'm no doctor, I'm no MD,
I'm no PhD.

499
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,400
I'm like Doctor J.
That's the only doctor that I,

500
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,960
you know, know, but he's a real
person, just a real dude who is

501
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,960
trying to tell you about his
situation and just give me some

502
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,080
pointers and tips on how to deal
with your situation.

503
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:52,160
At some point, we all will have
to help a friend out who was

504
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,120
sick, a spouse out, a parent.
We're all going to go through

505
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:58,200
these situations.
These situations aren't unique

506
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,080
to me, you, him or her.
So these are just steps, tips,

507
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,040
right?
I interviewed two people who I,

508
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:09,280
I have so much respect for and
honor and they had to go through

509
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,040
it and they came through on the
other side and they're beautiful

510
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,680
and they're moving forward in
life.

511
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,120
Just the just the perspective of
a real dude who's right in his

512
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,240
perspective and trying to help
the little bit that he can.

513
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,000
This, this book isn't going to,
it's not a cure all.

514
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,360
It's not a Band-Aid, it's not
surgery, just a small mental

515
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:29,200
step to help you get through
your journey.

516
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,040
What's one thing you wish more
men knew?

517
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,920
Geometry.
No, I think.

518
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,160
No.
One has ever said that that's

519
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,440
great.
I always thought this joke

520
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,880
because I took geometry at 10th
grade and I failed it.

521
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,520
And so my dad sat me down and
realized like he taught me how

522
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,440
to think about geometry and like
in steps, like, you know, we

523
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,040
doing proofs and stuff, don't
just think of it how to get to

524
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,640
the answer, how to think about
understanding what you're doing.

525
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,200
And I think that's in life.
That's actually a good point of

526
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,200
how to not just get to an
answer, but how to understand

527
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,680
how you got to the answer.
But I think more men just need

528
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,720
to know how to that that word
again, accountability, being

529
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,480
vulnerable.
It is all right to be

530
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,680
vulnerable, yo.
No one's going to be tripping

531
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,520
and hating on you.
And if they do, you probably

532
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,840
don't even need to be around
them.

533
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,240
But I don't care who it is.
If someone doesn't respect your

534
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,720
vulnerability, someone doesn't
respect your pace and your space

535
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,360
of how you move it through life,
and someone doesn't give you

536
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:39,280
room to grow and adapt, yo, you
probably don't need to be around

537
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,000
them because they aren't even
respecting you, not as a man,

538
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,520
but just as a human.
They want to inject their

539
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,680
personal and ego on you.
So I would just tell men it's OK

540
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,440
to be vulnerable.
Yo, it's, it's actually OK.

541
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,560
So it's all right to strength is
in the vulnerability.

542
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,320
Strength isn't in, you know,
popping off and talking, talking

543
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,200
ish all day.
That's that's weak.

544
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,240
Strength is in being strong and
vulnerable and knowing you can

545
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,360
handle situation, knowing you're
going to go through that storm.

546
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,960
You're going to get wet a little
bit, but at the end you'll be

547
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,040
all dry and you'll you'll get
through that storm.

548
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,880
Dawood, what's the best way for
people to connect with you to to

549
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,320
get the book?
Yeah, definitely go.

550
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,880
So go to
winnerbrotherneedsafriend.com.

551
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,560
It's everywhere.
It's blowing up.

552
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,560
Go buy 4000 copies and just give
them out to people for Christmas

553
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,600
gifts, Kwanzaa gifts, Hanukkah
gifts, whatever gift you want to

554
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,480
give them.
So it's a great book for all.

555
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,200
It's read through my
perspective, but all of us are

556
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,760
going to go through some tough
times.

557
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,880
We're going to deal with, like
you said, caregiving, sick

558
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,080
parents, drama all day.
And I'm on all socials.

559
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,280
So just and I, I'll, I'll put
the I'll give you the

560
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,120
information to post it for our
BIOS and all that good stuff.

561
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,000
And yeah, I'm available to
speak.

562
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,360
No doubt.
Mr. Grant, before we get going,

563
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,600
I just want to say thank you for
doing all the work you do.

564
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,120
And real men do fail.
And it's, it's a we're raging.

565
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,040
We're raising the consciousness
of the world that needs to be

566
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,560
raised right.
Like our grandparents probably

567
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,920
thought one way, but they had to
go through the Depression and

568
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,080
they had to go to World War 2.
They had real drama to go

569
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,520
through.
And maybe they had to have those

570
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,040
Shields up to protect themselves
from all that stuff that was

571
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,400
going on.
But they did that so we could be

572
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,440
free and more vulnerable and and
more have more accountability.

573
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,040
And we were just squandering
that away.

574
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,640
So thank you for all the work
you're doing, Sir.

575
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600
Yeah, all, all of our masks and
Shields serve the purpose.

576
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,480
But the point of the point of
maturing is to realize, oh,

577
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,920
they've outlived their purpose.
And that's a that's a tough

578
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,760
paper to do that.
That's a tough concept for

579
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,280
people to grasp.
Yeah, 'cause you got to live it.

580
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,480
Like you can read a good book
and get that idea in your head,

581
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,640
but if you don't live it.
Nothing's going to change, as my

582
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,400
dad would say.
Every day the rents do.

583
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,720
Every day you'll get evicted if
you don't pay that rental time.

584
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,400
Also, dude, thanks for your time
and thanks for not just writing

585
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,800
your message, but then I really
thank you for living your

586
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:21,600
message.
Thank you, Sir.

587
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,680
That's what that's what the
world needs.

588
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,920
More men on mission with
purpose.

589
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,640
Open sharing.
Big thanks to the Wood Wallace

590
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,440
for his honesty, wisdom and
heart.

591
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,560
You know, his message is clear.
There is strength and

592
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,160
vulnerability.
It is not a weakness, and every

593
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,960
man deserves the kind of
brotherhood that holds him up

594
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,120
through life's toughest moments.
If this conversation spoke to

595
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,400
you, please share it with
another man that you care about

596
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,480
and don't let this be the end of
your journey.

597
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,120
Join us inside the authentic AF
community at

598
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,200
realmenfield.org/group where
real men show up, speak up, and

599
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,720
help each other.
Up until next time, be good to

600
00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:59,200
yourself.