Growing Up Without A Dad Navigating the Father Wound and Building Self-Worth

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So you finally met your dad when
you were 27?

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Yes.
How did that feel?

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Oh, scary, overwhelming,
resolute, life changing, and

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necessary.
If I had to put it to 5 words,

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yeah it it was all of those
things encapsulated in one

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experience and it changed my
life forever.

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To this day, I do believe it's
one of the best things I ever

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did.
Hello and welcome to Real Men

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Feel.
I'm your host, Andy Grant, here

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to remind you once again that it
is OK to be human.

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Today we're diving into self
worth, the father wound, and

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what it really means to create a
life you're proud of.

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My guest is Kevin Palmieri, the
founder and Co host of the Next

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Level University podcast.
Kevin once had all the success

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he thought he wanted, yet it
left him unfulfilled, even to

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the point of contemplating
suicide.

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Since then, he's transformed his
life, producing over 2000

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episodes, reaching listeners in
170 countries, and becoming a

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role model for men looking to
grow beyond pain into purpose.

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He also carries A deeply
personal story about growing up

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without his dad and finally
meeting him as an adult.

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We'll explore that today.
And before we jump in, if you're

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a man who's tired of going it
alone, come join us in

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thefreeauthenticafcommunity@realmanfield.org/group.
Let's do it.

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Hello Kevin, and welcome to REAL
Men Feel.

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Andy, thank you so very much for
having me.

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I'm excited to chat.
It is a breath of fresh air on a

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Friday to jam with Someone Like
You.

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My.
Awesome.

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Well, let's get to it.
When we first spoke, you shared

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with me that you grew up without
knowing your father.

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So I wonder, could you take us
back to what life was like

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growing up without your dad?
Yeah, it's always hard because

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people say what was it like?
And I say it was normal because

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for me that that was normal.
But one of the stories that

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really I think paints a very
specific picture of how I felt,

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it was first grade, 4th grade, I
don't know, I was young.

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And the first day of school, for
some reason, you go around and

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you introduce yourself and you
say, this is what my mom does

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for work.
This is what my dad does for

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work.
And my mom was in the medical

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field.
And I remember thinking, I'm

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just going to, I got to make
something up for my dad.

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So I remember just making up
construction worker and I think

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what not having my dad around
when I was younger did to me is

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it allowed me, unfortunately, to
adopt imposter syndrome because

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I didn't want anybody to know
that secret.

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Because if somebody knew that
secret, they might make fun of

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me.
And I was made fun of it times,

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even though kids didn't really
know what they were doing.

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So I always felt a sense of one,
I'm different than everybody

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else.
Two, I'm going to be broken

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because of this.
And then three, as I got into my

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maybe early teens, later teens,
for some reason, my friends

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families always try to adopt me
and bring me into their dinner

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parties and their trips and
their vacation.

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So that was always a little
weird for me, feeling kind of

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like a a charity case, for lack
of better phrasing.

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It's funny, you know, thinking
about I never, I don't recall

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having that spin, but I, so my
parents divorced when I was 5

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and I, I, yeah, I was at the
adopted and pulled into dinners

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and vacations and things and
yeah, I, I just thought people

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liked me.
So I didn't know.

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Same, same.
And but, yeah, one thing that

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struck me just now, you said you
you knew you were broken.

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So there was something about Dad
being missing that that made you

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think you were off, that that
was wrong somehow.

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Yeah, I felt like everybody else
has.

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I won't say positive male role
models because in retrospect, I

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don't know how positive they
were, but I assumed I'm going to

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be the one who ends up being a
loser.

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I'm going to be the one who ends
up being a failure.

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I used to have a conversation
with two of my best friends at

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the time and we voted on who was
most likely to end up in jail.

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And it was me.
I was the one who was going to

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end up in trouble and end up in
jail because a lot of people in

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my family had gone to to jail
and they there was drug

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addiction and and alcohol
addiction.

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So I think it created an
identity for me that I didn't

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realize I was adopting long
before I was capable of knowing

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who I really was in the world,
right.

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And I think that's a common
thing.

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It's we look at our environment
and our environment in many

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cases dictates who we think
we're supposed to be.

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And unfortunately, that was
that's what mine dictated to me.

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Right, so you're raised by your
mom and your grandmother.

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How do you think that shaped
your view of masculinity and

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your own self worth?
My mom is very masculine, but

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one of my favorite stories of my
mom ever is somebody spit at my

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grandmother at a bar and my mom
threw them over the bar and beat

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them up.
And I love that.

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Let's shout out to my mom for
that.

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So my mom is relatively
masculine there.

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There was not a lot of
femininity in my household.

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So I think it it helped you with
a couple things.

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One, there was no yelling.
There was no screaming, there

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was no negativity, there was no
violence.

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I've had a pretty positive
household, all things

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considered, so at least that was
a model for me.

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But in terms of masculinity, I
don't.

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I didn't really have any great
constructive examples.

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I was close with my uncles, but
they were funny and jokey and

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they didn't take almost anything
seriously.

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So that never really that never
really attached to me as as what

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you should be.
I think I did what a lot of

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people did.
I looked at movies and I looked

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at wrestlers and that is who I
thought I was supposed to be.

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I wanted to be a professional
professional wrestler.

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I wanted to be a stuntman.
So I think I wanted to convey or

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exude what confidence looked
like on television.

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I thought that was masculinity.
I think the problem is I was so

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focused on looking good and
looking confident externally and

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not building actual self belief
and self worth.

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And I think self worth is being
comfortable with who you are as

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a person.
So I think for a lot of my life

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I hid behind the fact that I was
raised by my mom and my

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grandmother.
I hid behind the fact that we

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had a 2 bedroom apartment even
though there was three of us.

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So the nights my mom didn't work
third shift, she would sleep on

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the couch.
I that was just normal.

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And I, I think I tried to hide
behind what normal was because I

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was afraid what people would
think.

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And I think that massively
affected my myself worth and

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myself belief.
So you finally met your dad when

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you were 27?
Yes.

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How did that feel?
Oh.

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Scary, overwhelming, resolute,
life changing and necessary.

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If I had to put it to 5 words,
yeah it it was all of those

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things encapsulated in one
experience and it changed my

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life forever.
To this day, I do believe it's

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one of the best things I ever
did.

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And was this something that had
you sought this out, was this

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your creation, was it
circumstance, synchronicity, you

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know?
It was a Saturday morning, I was

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off of work.
I was sitting on my recliner and

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I was going through my Facebook
messages.

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And I didn't realize at the time
if somebody messages you and

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they're not friends with you, it
goes to a special folder,

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message request folder.
Didn't know that.

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I was going through that folder
and I saw this message and you

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can only see the first line.
That's how they get you.

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Hey, Kevin, I'm Robin.
I'm your father's girlfriend.

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And I was like, no, no, no, no,
no.

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Nope, Nope.
Not today.

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It's Saturday.
I got plans later.

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This is not going to derail my
day, but I got curious.

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I got very, very curious, so I
opened it up.

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Hey, Kevin, I'm Robin.
I'm your father's girlfriend,

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and he's been seeing you on
Facebook.

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It looks like you're doing
really well.

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If you'd ever want the
opportunity to meet, he would

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really enjoy that.
And then here's the thing that

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really messed me up.
The message was from three years

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prior, so I didn't even know if
he was still alive.

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I didn't know if they were
together.

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I didn't know if I didn't know
any of the circumstances.

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But I remember I threw my phone
on the floor.

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I fell on the floor.
I started bawling my eyes out.

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And I texted one of my friends
and I said, hey, my my dad

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messaged me and he wants to see
me.

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And they said, are you going to
do it?

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And I said, I think I have to.
I know I have to.

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I don't want to, but I think
this is the thing that I need to

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do.
And they said, do you want me to

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come with you?
And I said, I appreciate it, but

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this is one of those things I
just have to do on my own.

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So it was very much accidental.
It was very much coincidence

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that I was going through it.
Realistically, if I didn't find

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that message, I never would have
met my dad because he didn't

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have my phone number.
He didn't know where I lived.

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I didn't even know what he
looked like.

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I didn't even know his real
name.

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So I was never going to find
him.

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So it was very coincidental.
And it happened at a time in my

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life where I was very hungry for
growth and I was very hungry for

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evolution and awareness.
So it all lined up.

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Yeah, it all lined up really
nicely.

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So I messaged them back and
said, yeah, let's do it, Let's

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meet halfway.
And in a couple of weeks later,

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that was that was the plan.
So you didn't even know his

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name?
So your your parents were never

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married?
Did did your dad know that you

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existed when you were?
Born.

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He knew that, yeah, he knew that
I existed.

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But he was very much, from what
I've gathered over the years,

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never seen the movie Liar, Liar
with Jim Carrey.

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It was very much that he would
say he was going to come get me.

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He never would.
He would say he was going to

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show up.
He never would.

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He just never was there.
And he never, there was no

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improvement in that.
And I also believe he was in a

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motorcycle gang and he was heavy
into drugs and alcohol.

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So there was a lot going on at
that time.

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So, yeah, never married.
I was definitely an accident.

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And I don't think there was much
planned beyond what happens when

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this child is born.
And that's, yeah, that's, that's

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ended up being what happened
after I was born, yeah.

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So you you do connect, have you
stayed in contact since then or

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was it just a one meeting and
done?

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So I I drive down to this diner,
he meets me and I remember I got

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there first.
I sat down at at the booth

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looking out towards the window
and I remember thinking I don't

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know what he looks like.
So when he gets here, he's going

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to have to find me and this is
going to be even more awkward

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than I, I realized some guy
walks by the window somehow I

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knew, I don't know how to
explain it.

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It was just one of those
knowings that's my dad came in,

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found me, sat down.
I was stoic.

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I was, I was locked up.
You're not going to get any

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emotion out of me.
He was crying a couple times and

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it was it was interesting.
It was very interesting moment

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for me apologizing us catching
up and trying to essentially

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collapse 27 years into 27
minutes.

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But I had a moment where I
looked across the table and I

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felt bad for him.
I felt bad because I had done

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more work in my 27 years than he
had done in his sixty.

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That was one thing.
The second thing is I think I

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was able to depersonalize it for
the first time ever where I

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realized he didn't wake up one
day and say I'm going to try to

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mess this kids life up.
He had his own stuff going on

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and do I think I would have done
better?

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I like to think so.
And I also can have empathy for

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the fact that he didn't.
And then I think it gave me

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forgiveness.
Like, OK, this is something I

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never thought I was going to do.
I'm checking this off the bucket

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00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,680
list.
I I want to be open to

227
00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:05,000
forgiveness, not necessarily for
him, but for me.

228
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,280
I've made him this villain in my
head and he doesn't, he can't

229
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,480
even handle the power, right?
So I shouldn't give it to him.

230
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,200
So I ended up seeing him a
couple times after and it got to

231
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,160
this weird place where he would
just call me randomly on a

232
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,800
Thursday and get mad if I didn't
answer the phone.

233
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,360
Even though I'm out here doing
this and I'm building the

234
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,840
business and right I'm I'm not
exactly the type of person you

235
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,280
just call on a whim.
I don't answer my phone.

236
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,120
It's always on silent.
That was that became resistance.

237
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:35,320
He could never understand why I
didn't have time to go see him.

238
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,560
That became resistance.
And eventually one day I posted

239
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:44,000
a picture on Facebook of my wife
and I and he commented, you got

240
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,120
to lose the mustache.
That was it.

241
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,280
Not Oh my goodness, you and your
beautiful wife.

242
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,080
Not I'm proud of you.
Not I'm so proud of what you

243
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,840
created.
You got to lose the mustache.

244
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,080
And that for me was like, OK,
this is I, I can't do this.

245
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,760
I cannot father my father.
I'm not willing to sign up for

246
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,880
that.
So yeah, I decided essentially

247
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,880
to just let it die.
I feel like I got what I needed.

248
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,160
I hope he got the closure that
he needed.

249
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,880
I don't want to lead him on.
I don't want to do what he did

250
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,800
to me.
And honestly, I think I think

251
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,880
I'm better off knowing what I
know and not having the person

252
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,320
in my life.
So I haven't talked to him in, I

253
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,040
don't know, probably four years
now, maybe four or five years.

254
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,520
At that initial meeting, you
said that you were kind of

255
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,560
consciously stoic.
You weren't going to give him

256
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,520
any emotion.
Was that just another layer of

257
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:33,800
the defense?
He dismayed.

258
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,120
It hurt you enough.
You weren't going to let it

259
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,280
happen here.
Yeah, it was.

260
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,600
It was.
I don't think you deserve it.

261
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:42,600
Yeah, I don't think you deserve
it.

262
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,520
I don't think you deserve it.
And I can't just allow 27 years

263
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,400
to dissolve that quickly.
I need to, I, it was ego.

264
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,000
It was a protector.
It was what I thought I needed

265
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,360
to do in order to actually get
through the interaction.

266
00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,760
So, yeah, I, I didn't want to be
emotional.

267
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,040
I didn't want him to know how
badly I was hurt.

268
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,280
I didn't want him to know how
much that affected my life.

269
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,720
I didn't want him to know the
truth.

270
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,920
I think I didn't want him to
know the truth.

271
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,560
And I wonder if I was emotional,
if he would have been emotional.

272
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:13,160
I don't know.
I don't know.

273
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:18,600
But yeah, it's it's weird when
you when you imagine someone for

274
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,520
so long and then you get to see
them and you realize they are

275
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,160
nothing like you thought they
were going to be.

276
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,680
So I went in with an emotion, I
went in with an intention.

277
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:28,800
And I think I just held on to
that, probably for my safety

278
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,200
more than anything.
Yeah, I think you're accurate

279
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,920
there.
How has your relationship, or

280
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:39,600
lack thereof, and the meeting?
How is that altered or created

281
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:46,320
your view of yourself as a man?
I am so proud of who I've

282
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,600
become.
I'm so proud of who I've become

283
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,520
just because there was a lot of,
there was a lot of reasons,

284
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,960
there was a lot of circumstances
and there was a lot of really

285
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,840
easy paths I could have taken
that would have ended up in any

286
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,800
direction.
But the one I'm in one, it

287
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,560
allowed me to realize that I
think I'm a better man because

288
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,960
my dad wasn't around.
Honestly, as as heavy as that,

289
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,440
that is to say, I don't think
having a male role model around

290
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,840
would have been better than not
having one around based on what

291
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,360
I saw.
And I think it's allowed me to

292
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,920
understand certain intricacies
about myself and understand why

293
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,760
I am the way I am in certain
ways and help me understand that

294
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,240
I actually can work through
them.

295
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,920
Well, it's interesting.
My wife said this to me today.

296
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,920
She said I, I don't think you
give yourself enough credit for

297
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,760
how for most of your life you
thought you were dumb and you

298
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,280
were useless.
And now like you're extremely

299
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,320
smart and you can essentially
figure almost anything out.

300
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,520
And I said, I appreciate that.
That's that.

301
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,040
What a wonderful message to get
first thing in the morning.

302
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,920
I said I appreciate that so very
much.

303
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,320
So yeah, I, I'm very proud of
the person I am.

304
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,440
And I think through that I've
been able to, I've been able to

305
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,120
be very proud of what I've had
the opportunity and the

306
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,520
privilege to be a part of
creating.

307
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,040
But there's still a dark, I
mean, there's still a dark side

308
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,240
of me that I go like when I'm at
the gym, I imagine my dad not

309
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,480
believing in me.
I go to dark places when I need

310
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,200
to get stuff done.
So there's the flowers on one

311
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,560
side and there's the darkness on
the other that I, I don't ever

312
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,360
want to lose that.
I think I have such a heavy chip

313
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,680
on my shoulder from not having a
dad around and feeling like he

314
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,680
didn't believe in me.
I want to make sure I run the

315
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,160
chip and the chip doesn't run
me.

316
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,400
But I'm still leveraging that to
this day.

317
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,600
I mean, I worked 16 hours
yesterday that if that chip was

318
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,880
not there, I just don't believe
I'd be the man I am.

319
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,440
So taking the good with the bad
and I'm very proud of what I've

320
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,000
been able to create from the
bad, I would say.

321
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,520
Yeah.
So it's growing up with a

322
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,360
physically or emotionally
distant dad is often called

323
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,320
that, that the father wound how
that impact it has on us.

324
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,520
And it can be the chip that
drives you and turns you into

325
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:55,040
being a successful, well driven
man focused on your own growth

326
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,560
and and evolution.
But it also it also is a chip

327
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,440
that crushes some guys too.
So I'm, I'm really, you know, I

328
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,200
want to commend you along with
your wife, how you work with

329
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,400
what you were given so.
I appreciate it.

330
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,040
Well, again, we're in a silo,
right?

331
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,080
If you asked me seven years ago
how I felt, it would not be

332
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,440
nearly as complete and or
evolved as it is today.

333
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,520
So a lot of it has just been
time, time, reflection,

334
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:26,200
awareness, necessity, right?
So it's a, it is a very, is a

335
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,880
very complicated equation to
overcome something like that.

336
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,720
And I think the equation is
different for everybody, but I

337
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,800
do very much appreciate the love
very much.

338
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,400
So in your 20s, you had all the
trappings of success, but then I

339
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,120
know you had.
Yeah, I'll let you share what

340
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,480
kind of was the rock bottom with
the breaking point for you when

341
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:48,480
you seemingly had success?
Yeah, so when I was 25, I had a

342
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,760
very close to 6 figure.
It was a six figure potential

343
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,920
income.
We were on contracts with the

344
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,640
government and the state, so it
depended on how much I worked.

345
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,800
There was definitely a track to
get to 6 figures.

346
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,640
My girlfriend at the time was a
model.

347
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,160
I was getting ready to compete
in a bodybuilding show.

348
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,520
So I was quite literally in the
best shape I will ever be.

349
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:06,760
I'll never be in that shape
again.

350
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,920
We had just moved into a really
nice apartment together.

351
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,280
I had a nice car, I had great
friends.

352
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,760
I was from all external views.
I was living the dream.

353
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,680
I was crushing it.
But internally I was depressed,

354
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,240
I was anxious, I had self doubt,
I had no self worth.

355
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,240
I felt terrible about myself.
My initial rock bottom moment.

356
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,640
My girlfriend sat me down one
time.

357
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,720
This was after my bodybuilding
show and I was struggling bad.

358
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,160
After my bodybuilding show, she
said, hey, I'm leaving.

359
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,120
You're just not the man that I
fell in love with.

360
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,920
And I feel like you're not the
man that can help support me and

361
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,880
my goals and my dreams and my
ambitions.

362
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,240
And she was right,
unfortunately.

363
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,120
And the thing that really helped
me figure out where I was, as

364
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:53,000
she said, I was going to leave a
month or two ago, but I was, I

365
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,200
was genuinely afraid if I did,
you might commit suicide.

366
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,960
And I remember thinking, oh,
good, how did we get here?

367
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,760
How did it get to this point?
So that was my initial rock

368
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,600
bottom.
She left, work got slow, so I

369
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,880
was struggling financially and
my bills had just doubled and I

370
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,560
had an eating disorder for my
bodybuilding show.

371
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,880
So in the beginning it looked
like I had health, wealth and

372
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,680
love behind the scenes.
I was unhealthy as you could be.

373
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,600
I was as single and lonely as
you could be, and I was

374
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,200
struggling financially.
Naturally, I think the the male

375
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,760
side of me said I'm just going
to go make a boatload of money,

376
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,720
let me grind my face off and
I'll work myself out of this

377
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,280
hole.
So that next year I got a

378
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,680
promotion at my job.
We proceeded to have the busiest

379
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,520
year we ever had and I spent 10
months living on the road,

380
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,920
travelling up and down the East
Coast of the US for my job.

381
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,240
Monday through Friday, I'm on
the road.

382
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,040
I get home either late Friday
night, early Saturday, clothes

383
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,320
come out of the suitcase, into
the washer, into the dryer, back

384
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:52,920
into the suitcase.
That's my life for the year.

385
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,800
We get to the end of the year
though, Andy, I crack open that

386
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,720
final pay stub.
I made $100,000 at 26 with no

387
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,240
college degree.
Externally, feels really good.

388
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:09,280
Internally, nothing shifted.
So I remember thinking for most

389
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,000
of my life I've lived
unconsciously.

390
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,720
The opposite of unconscious is
hyperconscious.

391
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,600
I'm going to start a podcast
called the Hyperconscious

392
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,280
Podcast.
That's what any young man would

393
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,520
do at this point in his life.
Let's start a podcast.

394
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,880
So started a podcast.
I fell in love with podcasting

395
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,960
and very quickly I learned that
this job is not what I want to

396
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,200
do.
I know money is not the only

397
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,000
answer.
I'm now checked out completely,

398
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,400
almost overnight.
So I start calling out, showing

399
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,480
up late, leaving job sites
early, just I don't care

400
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,680
anymore.
But as you know, there's not a

401
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,040
line out the door of people
saying, hey, this podcast is a

402
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,480
great idea.
How much money do you need?

403
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,640
How much money can we give you
so you can do a full time?

404
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,880
So I had to keep going to this
job and my anxiety came back and

405
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,040
it was getting worse.
My depression came back and it

406
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,920
was getting worse and eventually
I found out that rock bottom has

407
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,320
a basement.
I woke up in a hotel room in New

408
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,280
Jersey.
Alarm clock went off at 5:30.

409
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,560
I sat up, slid to the edge of
the bed lacing up my work boots.

410
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,400
And the best way to explain it
is there was 10 televisions on

411
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,640
in my head at the same time and
every single one was on a

412
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,360
different station and one is
saying you're stuck here

413
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,080
forever.
I was the gas station guy, I was

414
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,280
the guy who cleaned bathrooms at
hospitals.

415
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,840
I was the guy who just never
could find a way to make good

416
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,760
money.
Felt like I got lucky getting

417
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,800
this job.
I'm never going to get this

418
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,080
again.
If I ever left, what would my

419
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,000
friends say?
I make so much money compared to

420
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,840
my friends who all have degrees
and went to college and I

421
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,360
didn't.
There's so there's significance

422
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,960
there.
What's my family going to say?

423
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,200
I remember how highly my mom
would talk about me to the

424
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,400
people at work and she used to
take my car to work at times

425
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,120
because I had such a nice car.
And do you really think you're

426
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,800
going to be a podcaster?
And that was the loudest one.

427
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,120
Do you really think you're going
to be a podcaster?

428
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:02,800
This, there's no way this works.
So in my mind, I thought to

429
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,920
myself, well, if I was just to
take my life, I would take my

430
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,880
problems with me.
And that was the rock bottom

431
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,920
sitting on the edge of the bed
moment where I didn't think

432
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,920
there was anything else to do.
Now, luckily I have positive men

433
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,360
in my life, luckily.
So I messaged 1 and he's my

434
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:20,880
business partner now, the Co
host of the show.

435
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,760
So it's worked out quite well, I
would say.

436
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,120
And I said, Hey, I'm, I'm having
these thoughts, I'm having these

437
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,280
feelings, I'm having these
emotions.

438
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,760
I don't, I don't know what to
do, man.

439
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,000
And he said a lot.
But the thing I remember was

440
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,600
over the last couple years, your
awareness has changed a ton, but

441
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:35,920
your environments have remained
the same.

442
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,480
So that was like the belief I
needed.

443
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,960
I borrowed his belief.
I borrowed his worth and I ended

444
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,040
up leaving that job three or
four months later.

445
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,440
I think him and I partnered up
in 2018 and we tried to figure

446
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,600
out how to do this podcast thing
full time.

447
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,520
So that rock bottom moment
became so much of the fuel for

448
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,120
even starting and leaning into
this and getting to the place

449
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,480
that we are today.
But yeah, it was it was a

450
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,960
really, really challenging time
in my life for sure.

451
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,800
Now, very honestly, life got
harder after I left my job

452
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,920
because I lost all of my money
and I was anxious and having

453
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,440
panic attacks and it was this
whole thing.

454
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,640
But sometimes it's got to get
worse before it gets better.

455
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,680
Why do you think that so many
men have to hit rock bottom?

456
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,960
Like can you be I don't like
this so I'm going to change it?

457
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,160
It has to be like I am.
I am facing myself inflicted

458
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,360
demise if I don't change things.
Why did it have to get so bad

459
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:32,760
for you to make that that
change?

460
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,720
Sometimes your ego has to die
before you're willing to do

461
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,840
things that require humility,
right?

462
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,920
And I think for me, I was living
in such a place of ego

463
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,400
significance that I could not
imagine my life without the

464
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,360
external accomplishments that I
had.

465
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,000
When you, we call it the pain
pleasure pendulum, when you

466
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,520
swing all the way to heck no,
you're more likely to swing to

467
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,040
heck, heck yes.
And the example I always use is

468
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,000
let's say Monday morning, you go
to work and it's the worst day

469
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,640
you've ever had at work.
One of two things happens.

470
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,480
You say, screw this, I'm out.
I'm going to start looking for

471
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,240
other jobs.
Or you go in Tuesday and it gets

472
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,320
a little bit better and then
Wednesday, hump day, Thursdays,

473
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,800
Friday junior, and then Fridays,
Friday, Saturday, Sunday you

474
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,480
work off some steam, Monday
you're back.

475
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,360
The moment has passed, the
necessity has passed, the pain

476
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,280
has passed.
I think that's why pain is such

477
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,600
a powerful motivator.
When you get to a place where

478
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,680
you are so deep in pain that you
know it won't pass, you know you

479
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,920
have to do something
differently.

480
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:36,920
So I think, and I don't think
that's just for men, I think

481
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,480
that's for humans in general.
I think men are probably

482
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,480
statistically more stubborn.
So it takes more.

483
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,080
But I think when you're in a
really dark place, you're

484
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,280
willing to work, you're willing
to look for light that you

485
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,360
hadn't been willing to in the
past.

486
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,680
And I, I really think it's just
because pain is the best

487
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,000
motivator and the best
necessity.

488
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,680
And I think as men, we think
we're supposed to handle all of

489
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,240
the pain and we're capable of
taking it and just continuing

490
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,520
on.
That's for you to decide out

491
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:05,600
there whether you're watching or
listening.

492
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,200
But yeah, I think that's why I
think unfortunately, discomfort,

493
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,960
resistance, pain are required to
change because they're what

494
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,320
creates a necessity in the 1st
place.

495
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,520
If it's just OK, I'm probably
not going to do anything about

496
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,040
it, right?
It just doesn't make any sense.

497
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,960
Has your own definition of self
worth changed from your 20s to

498
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,600
today?
I think in my mind, self worth

499
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,000
used to be delusional.
So I know my value and I know

500
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,160
what I'm worth and I'm never
going to be around people that

501
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,120
don't value that worth.
I think that's a good direction

502
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:45,120
to move in.
But I I think I thought accurate

503
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,960
self worth was arrogance.
When I think accurate self worth

504
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,280
for me is humility.
I'm a very valuable man,

505
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,200
Awesome.
I can add value in many

506
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,360
situations.
Awesome.

507
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,200
And I have a lot of work to do
in many arenas.

508
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,800
I think that's accurate self
worth.

509
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,640
Self worth is understanding the
value of you as a human being.

510
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,560
And I think we are either
delusionally high or

511
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,320
delusionally low.
I don't think anybody's really

512
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,400
accurate.
I'm not accurate.

513
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,120
I'm probably a little bit over.
I'm probably a little bit

514
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:17,960
delusionally high right now
because things are going really

515
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,280
well.
So I think I thought it was

516
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,600
arrogance and I think I thought
it was believing in my own

517
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,680
unique capabilities in the
external world.

518
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,600
Now I know it's just being able
to set a boundary and hold it,

519
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,720
being able to hold my emotional
space when somebody is trying to

520
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,320
take it.
It's way more internal than I

521
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,120
thought.
I thought self worth and self

522
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,840
belief were the same thing.
I thought they were external and

523
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,800
people could see them.
Now I understand self worth is

524
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,280
way more about a feeling than it
is what anybody sees.

525
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,640
And also, it's way easier to
just punt it and abandoned it

526
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,200
than it is to hold.
Holding self worth in a moment

527
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,440
is scary.
It's very, very, very scary.

528
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,160
And you're the only one that can
really do that work.

529
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,360
And you're the only one that
really knows whether or not it's

530
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:09,800
happening.
So yeah, my definition has

531
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,120
changed a ton.
But I think it's really hard to

532
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:15,520
define something you don't have
yet, Right.

533
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,000
It's it's easy to say this is
what it is until you realize,

534
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,840
oh, OK.
No, no, this is actually what it

535
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,280
feels like when you have it.
Yeah, you're right.

536
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,680
Yeah, until you have your
experience, you're just

537
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,200
guessing.
Like, is this, is this good

538
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,680
feeling?
Is this, is this going fast in

539
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:29,720
this car?
Is this self worth?

540
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:30,760
Is this what it is like?
Yeah.

541
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,560
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we if it, if it feels like

542
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,080
it's going in the right
direction, we think we're doing

543
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,640
it, we're doing it right.
So if you go from just self

544
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,920
deprecation to arrogant, it
feels like it's progress.

545
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,240
It is progress.
You're moving in the right

546
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,000
direction.
You just have gone past the

547
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,160
optimal point, right.
And and I think that is life in

548
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,040
general.
I think life is a constant

549
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,080
pendulum between under and over,
under and over.

550
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,080
I used to be somebody who spent
way too much money on dumb

551
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,800
stuff.
I was way over.

552
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,920
Now I'm struggling to buy things
I need because I'm so focused on

553
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,280
saving money.
I'm under now.

554
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,080
There's an optimal point for all
of us, self belief, self worth,

555
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,480
all of that stuff.
And I just think it takes time,

556
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,320
experience and reflection to to
get there.

557
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,000
And I had very little time, very
little experience and very, very

558
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,080
little reflection in my mid 20s
for sure.

559
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,920
So Kevin, with over 2000
episodes of your Next Level

560
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,560
University podcast, is there a
most surprising thing you have

561
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,360
learned about men and self worth
from from your guests?

562
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,080
That's a great question.
Some of the people who have the

563
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,160
most healthy self worth are the
ones who have gone through the

564
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,320
most hell to get there.
There's a gentleman, his name's

565
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:51,040
Anthony Trucks, and he's played
in the NFL, American Ninja

566
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Warrior, spoken on some of the
biggest stages in the world, and

567
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,320
he's just a good dude.
Just a good dude.

568
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,240
But when you hear his story
about how he got bounced around

569
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,760
from foster home to foster home,
at one point, I'm pretty sure he

570
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,240
had to catch chickens in the
backyard in order to eat, was

571
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,600
put in a dog kennel, had to lick
the bottom of people's shoes

572
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,560
until his tongue bled.
I mean, he had overcome so much

573
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,760
to become a positive, healthy
man.

574
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,040
I think there's something about
that.

575
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,960
There's something about having
to overcome in order to get to

576
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,160
the place that you want.
So necessity, yeah, I don't.

577
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,080
I don't know if anybody just
wakes up one day and says I want

578
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,480
to be a really good person.
I don't know if it really works

579
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,160
that way.
I think.

580
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,720
I think something has to happen
that shakes you to the core.

581
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,400
And you say, I don't want to
live like this.

582
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,720
And the way I'm living, if I
continue at this trajectory, I'm

583
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,160
in a lot of trouble.
I have to change, like,

584
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,840
everything, and I have to work
through everything.

585
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,520
So, and sometimes the most
resistance creates the highest

586
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,720
quality human.
I would say that's, that's been

587
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,040
something.
And then I would say this is an

588
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,440
interesting thing too.
I was thinking of this the other

589
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,280
day.
There's a lot of people out

590
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,920
there that say like bro code,
you know, what happens amongst

591
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,120
Bros stays amongst Bros.
I think that's a sad excuse to

592
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,760
just live in arrogance and live
in ego.

593
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,960
We've had guests on the podcast
in the past who we never

594
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,560
released the episodes because
they're surrounded by people

595
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,680
that make their behavior OK, and
those are not my people.

596
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,960
I do not want you in my life.
I don't want to talk to you.

597
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,760
I don't want to hear from you.
I don't want to spend any time

598
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,080
with you.
It helped me really identify who

599
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,240
the people I wanted to be around
with, who my people are and who

600
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,240
the people I'm just not
interested in spending time

601
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,920
with, regardless of how much
quicker that would help me be

602
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,840
successful.
That a lot of people,

603
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,120
unfortunately, and especially,
no, I wouldn't even say

604
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,760
especially men, men and women
are way more focused on being

605
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,760
externally successful than
character driven internally.

606
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,000
And that is something that
jumped off the page.

607
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,760
You won't know who it is because
those episodes didn't get

608
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,600
released, but there was a couple
of them for sure.

609
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,360
So Kevin, how has sharing your
story publicly helped you heal?

610
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,880
So many of the things that I
used to be nervous about talking

611
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,760
about and the things that I had
shame around and my insecurities

612
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,440
now are not.
I'm not insecure about them at

613
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,720
all because I've talked about
them so much.

614
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,960
I, we were on a podcast one time
with a, her name is Toria Leto.

615
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,040
She's a licensed marriage and
family therapist.

616
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,120
And I was talking about how I
had AI was working through an

617
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,440
addiction to porn.
And after the episode, Alan, my

618
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,160
business partner said, dude, I
can't believe you said that.

619
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,160
I can't believe you like just
outed yourself.

620
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,960
And I said, dude, you know any
men I've met who will not admit

621
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,520
that they have a porn addiction,
but they do.

622
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,880
There's two types of there's two
types of men, men who admit they

623
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,640
watch porn and men who lie and
say that they don't like most.

624
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,560
Statistically, most people at
some point do.

625
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,600
And often times it becomes a
problem.

626
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,000
I have a very firm belief that I
will get punches on one cheek

627
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,840
and kisses on the other.
And I've been saying that from

628
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,560
the beginning.
The kisses on the left cheek

629
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,040
matter more to me.
So it has helped me become more

630
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,680
confident.
It's helped me have more self

631
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,840
worth I and I think it's helped
me help people.

632
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,880
Yeah, I could sit up here and
talk about how amazing things

633
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,600
are and but it doesn't matter.
That's not even what matters.

634
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,440
What matters is what I'm still
working through in order to

635
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,160
maintain the amazing quote UN
quote things we have going on.

636
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,560
So yeah, I think it's helped me
connect with people at a very

637
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,680
human level.
It is normalized, whatever it is

638
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,640
that I've gone through that
other people are going through.

639
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,680
And I think it's actually given
permission to people to be able

640
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,040
to work through their stuff.
And, and it's helped me.

641
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,000
I'm just way more confident now
is, is somebody going to reach

642
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,320
out and say, Oh, wow, you're,
you're soft because you grew up

643
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,640
without your debt?
Like whatever.

644
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,120
That's if that's what you want
to waste your time doing, feel

645
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,960
free.
But that says way more about you

646
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,760
than it does about me.
Yeah, Kevin, what's one thing

647
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,120
you wish more men knew?
Vulnerability is strength.

648
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,360
You probably are not crying
enough.

649
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,800
I bet money on it that most men
are not crying enough.

650
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,360
I love a good cry.
I love a good cry.

651
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,600
And your partner probably wants
you to ask for help more than

652
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,880
you are, whether you're in a
heterosexual relationship or not

653
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,280
a heterosexual relationship.
Your partner probably wants you

654
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,960
to ask for help more.
But we're convinced that that

655
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,160
that's weakness, and I don't
think so.

656
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,360
There's a drastic difference
between weakness and connection

657
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,480
that I wish, I wish more men
knew that because that's

658
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,640
something that took me to be 30
years to learn that.

659
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,240
And if there's any young men out
there growing up right now

660
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,840
without a dad in their life, is
there anything you would like

661
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,760
them to hear?
Two things.

662
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,040
One, that does not mean anything
about you, that does not mean

663
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,360
anything about your trajectory,
and it does not mean anything

664
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,040
about what you're capable of.
I mean, you are capable of

665
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,960
anything that anybody else is
quite literally, and maybe even

666
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,520
more because you have more fuel
in the tank.

667
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,640
That would be 1 and then two.
And this is just a personal one.

668
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Don't assume because you grew up
without a dad that you have to

669
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,280
be the dad that you didn't have.
That's a I've gotten that

670
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,040
question a lot of like, what is
it going to be like when you

671
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,160
have kids?
I'm not having kids.

672
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,720
I don't, I'm not, I'm not
planning on having children.

673
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,880
What this business and what this
journey is going to take of me.

674
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,480
I don't think it would be fair
to have children based on the

675
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,240
amount of time I have.
Maybe it will adopt later, but

676
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,560
with that was something I had to
let go of because I think that

677
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,840
for me came from a place of ego.
I'll show him by being the best

678
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,280
dad I can be.
If that's you out there and that

679
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,800
resonates, do it.
But for me, that was more of a

680
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,360
wound, I think, than anything
else.

681
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,080
So I would say really sit with
that and and see what the truth

682
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,360
is.
See what the truth is.

683
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,120
I thought I was going to put my
dad to shame by being a dad.

684
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,960
And then eventually it got to
the place where it was like,

685
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,880
it's not fair to, it's not fair
to bring someone in.

686
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,600
So I can do that.
Like, that's not fair, that's

687
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,560
ego.
So I let that go.

688
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,360
I'm not saying you have to if
you're out there, but I'd say

689
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,080
explore it.
I think exploring it's probably

690
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,640
a constructive thing for
everyone.

691
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,320
Yeah.
You recognize you're setting

692
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,199
yourself for this competition
that would involve another

693
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:11,679
person necessarily their their
best good or anything.

694
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:12,679
Yeah.
Right.

695
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,159
Yeah.
It's like I'm going to have a

696
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,040
child so I can prove to my dad,
who's never going to see that

697
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,639
I'm a great dad.
Like that's what are we doing

698
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:19,400
here.
Awesome.

699
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,440
So, Kevin, what's the best way
for people to connect with you

700
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,080
and discover everything that you
offer?

701
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,800
The podcast is called Next Level
University.

702
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,000
We do an episode every day.
You can get a little bit better

703
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,840
every day.
That's kind of our our thesis.

704
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,719
So we're on all the podcast
platforms.

705
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,719
We're on YouTube.
My e-mail is

706
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,600
kevin@nextleveluniverse.com.
I do my own emails.

707
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,520
If you want to vulnerably share,
I got you.

708
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,800
I'll keep it private, I promise.
And then my handle on Instagram

709
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,960
is at Never Quit kid podcast
content, fitness content,

710
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,440
whatever you're looking for, I'm
probably going to post something

711
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,880
like that on my Instagram.
Well, Kevin, it was great to

712
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,560
finally connect.
We're, we're close physically

713
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,240
and we've had lots of near
misses for connecting.

714
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:03,200
And I just really appreciate
everything you're doing for

715
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,720
yourself and for everyone else.
Because I one thing that I

716
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:10,440
didn't grow up ever knowing was
part of self worth is, is being

717
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,720
of service.
And that really fuels self

718
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:16,400
worth. 100 percent, 100%, thank
you so very much for having me.

719
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,480
Thank you for creating a safe
space for men to share.

720
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,560
And it takes 2 to tango, so I
appreciate you being willing to

721
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,160
to dive into the depths with me
today.

722
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,160
Awesome.
Big thanks to Kevin for sharing

723
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,240
his journey, lessons on self
worth, and the courage to talk

724
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:30,920
about the father wounds so
openly.

725
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,680
If you enjoyed today's
conversation, be sure to check

726
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,320
out Kevin's Next Level
University podcast for daily

727
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,680
episodes on growth mindset and
living a next level life.

728
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,360
And remember, healing and self
worth don't happen in isolation.

729
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,320
If you're ready to step out of
the emotional closet and connect

730
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,680
with other men who are doing the
work, join us in the authentic

731
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,280
AF community at
realmenfield.org/group.

732
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,240
And until next time, be good to
yourself.