Men Forge Forward: Overcoming Pressure and Finding Purpose

0:00 Yeah, I find that might be the most often spoken lie from men. I'm fine I guess it it's so rarely is true. Absolutely. Even that like why do we settle for fine, like why is that the go to answer for so many things? Like, you know, why isn't it? I'm exceptional, like everything's great, but just I'm fine. It's kind of a blase, you know, life's OK, I guess. Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel. I'm your host, Andy Grant. Today I'm talking with Sean Haggerty, founder of Men Forge Forward. Sean spent years as a paramedic and healthcare manager, serving others under pressure. But like many men, his identity became wrapped up around his role.

0:40 When that started to shift, Sean found himself asking deeper questions. Who am I without the job? What do I actually want to build? And how can I help other men who feel stuck, burned out, and disconnected? That journey led him to create Men Forge Forward, an online community and coaching movement helping men regain clarity, confidence, direction and brotherhood. Let's do it. Hello Sean, and welcome to Real Men. Feel and candy it's good to be here and really looking forward to the conversation today a good. Deal. So I know for decades you worked in urgent and emergency care and healthcare overall. What did that teach you about pressure, responsibility and the way that men carry stress? It was an interesting journey and I started getting involved with emergency care and and helping people at a very young age.

1:37 Even as a child I was that person going in and and helping the neighbors, making sure that the milk was in off the doorstep, that the heating was on and things like that for the elderly neighbors. My own mum was disabled in a wheelchair, so I was a young carer for her. So there was a lot of responsibility on me from a young age. And what I found naturally evolved from that was this kind of servant leadership style. And we hear quite a bit about servant leadership and that carried through into my my career. And as you mentioned there, I have done various things including being a paramedic, hence the emergency care side of things and being a healthcare manager.

2:25 So I've been in very stressful situations and witnessed some incredibly stressful situations over the the years. What I've really seen through that is that as a man, and I was guilty of this myself, Andy, the very easy to put on this mask and almost to be quite stoic and, you know, carry everything on, on your shoulders and, and take it as it comes and say, yes, I, I can handle this because I'm a man. And this perception of being strong and carrying it for, for everybody else. But what I was witnessing was that actually a lot of the men that I was seeing in stressful situations, they were breaking under that strain.

3:20 They realised that the body's very good at coping until it can't cope anymore and and it buckles under the pressure. And I was seeing that time and time again. But even seeing it, I still wasn't able to correlate that into my own life and see that I was doing exactly that for myself. And it was only when I went through what I call my dark time. And I know I've spoken to you about that in the past, that that really came to, to hit home and for me to recognise the importance of men, especially opening up and talking about their struggles and how they they carry this hidden load, this invisible load with them. Were you aware when you first put on the mask that you were carrying everything?

4:15 Or did it take seeing other men kind of drop that mask, even against their will, for you to realise that you were doing the same thing? Yeah, like, like I say, I got very good at seeing and spotting it in in other people. And then at the same time, I was reluctant to admit to myself that I was doing it. And I think as time went on, part, part of it was, you know, having a role such as a paramedic where you know, you're, you're almost seen as this, this expert. And there is a, an added layer of, if I admit that I'm struggling and I'm not coping, then I'm going to appear weak and somehow less knowledgeable or less competent in, in doing that.

5:06 That was an added pressure that that kept the mask on for longer. But then during COVID times, I witnessed quite a few men really, really struggling because all of a sudden they've lost any form of support network that they they had, whether it be the pub or a Sports Club or wherever they went as their outlet. And all of a sudden they were locked in at at home and, and within a very small circle of people. And that was quite a turning point for me in, in realising, hang on, I'm, I'm struggling here too. How? How can and how can I look after myself and how can I help other people with it too?

5:52 You talked about the the, the fear of being seen as weak. Did you ever, like, run through that process? Like what? What was beyond that? What did you fear would happen if any community you were in decided that you were weak? Again, I think from a young age I'd been almost programmed to because I was caring, because I was a helpful person there. There was this ingrained part of me that anything showing my own struggle and my own weakness almost took away that that identity. And I talked quite a bit about my my core identity being that care, caring, helpful person. It was what I had before I was a paramedic. It was what took me into that profession and through my healthcare career and into what I do now as a men's life coach. Yeah, I, I think it, it was almost a part of my DNA. It it was so, so deeply ingrained, like I say, from a young age.

6:52 So talking to you previously, you talked about there were times when your identity and your job were just completely intertwined. In your own experience and an experience of guys you work with, what does an identity crisis look like inside when on the outside someone is still achieving and successful and still that the mask is very present going outward? Absolutely. And that is a, a key part of this that you know, you can, you can look at people and they, they look absolutely fine and you wouldn't dream that they are going through this internal and struggle. So that came to a head for me.

7:39 As you mentioned there, when my own health took a nosedive, I got diagnosed with complex PTSD and another condition called functional neurological disorder. And ultimately it meant that I had to give up my license to practice my registration as a paramedic. That was a huge shift for me because if you'd have cut me in half at that time, and I know I've said this before, I would have bled out green. I was a paramedic through and through. That was what I identified as. I was Sean the paramedic, and for a long time I was in what I call my dark place. I was depressed, I was unhappy, I was having those suicidal thoughts.

8:26 Where everything felt like it got too much and I felt like I was a failure to myself and a failure to everybody else. It was a really, really tough time. But fortunately for me, I found a, a networking group because I realised that I wasn't going to be able to work for anybody else anymore. And if I carried on the way I was going, it wasn't going to end well basically. So I started a business to help other businesses with their policies and procedures and found this networking group. And it was there that I discovered the power of coaching. I've been a coach in the the work sense before, coaching and mentoring new paramedics and staff in my team and things like that.

9:19 But in this context it was was different and that helped me to stop attributing external things on to who I am. So, you know, speaking to one of the people in that networking group really helped me to say let go of the paramedic because there was a Sean before there was a paramedic show. And that's what got me to reflect on that childhood experience of being, helping, caring, and then realised that that was going to be part of what I do next.

10:01 So that that was a pivotal moment because I realised I was on the wrong path. I realised that, you know, setting up this business in, in the way that I had was purely trying to make some money because I was pretty good at writing policies and procedures and helping with that. But my heart wasn't now. I had no passion for it. So that was a really important moment in in letting go of, of that part of what's the word I'm looking for, you know, a gremlin on my shoulder. There is a a good book by someone called Carson, I think it's Phil Carson taming your gremlins. And it's all about those limiting beliefs and, and these little gremlins on your, on your shoulder, whispering in your ear a long way, long winded way of me saying that we put, we put too much external emphasis on who we are. So it's really important to have that pulls and, and to look more inwards at who are we are core.

11:05 What is our values? What do we believe in? What, what do we want from life? Not what other people are telling us we should have want from life, but what do we want? And they're not always going to be the same thing. And that's OK. It certainly is OK. Was there a point that you realised I don't want to just create a business, I want to create a men's movement? Yeah, So that that comes back to this, this networking group, I hope you don't mind me plugging it. It's Circle Networks started off in the UK and now they have events all over the world online and in person. It was such an experience being surrounded by entrepreneurs and business owners in a variety of businesses.

11:55 And I got to brush shoulders with, you know, people that were in some very good, good money, some of the millionaires. And the one thing that we all had in common was a mission, a passion that was driving what we were doing. And for me, I was able to, as a combination of speaking to people there and going through therapy myself at the time, I realised that all the experience that I'd had up until that point had built up almost a knowledge Bank of lived experience as well as general knowledge. I suppose that could help other people that were also struggling or going through a transformation in their life or just didn't have a, a sense of direction at all and wondered, you know what, what's the point of my existence? What's what's next?

13:04 And that was when I realised that I wanted to move into the coaching world myself and as I say, gone on to evolve as a men's life coach because I've got that experience. I'm a man, I've gone through a lot without, you know, listing rooms of of the things I've been through, but I've been through a lot and and I think that gives me a lot to offer others that are also going through a lot in their own life. So you created men forge forward. So is it really for that guy that is feeling the weight or is asking the kind of those existential questions?

13:46 You know what? What's what's the point? Absolutely say I didn't want it to be locked behind a paywall and I wanted it to be accessible for any man that needs it. So set the community up on the school platform with a KSKOOL and so any, any man can join. And, and the idea of that is that you've got this network of peer support, which ultimately is what helped me when I was in that networking environment to drive me forward and, and help me with, with the issues I was going through within the community. There's a lot of support from the other men.

14:29 And again, it's a, a really diverse network. You've got people all over the world in that. You've got some people that are running their own businesses, some people that are running their own school communities, some people aren't working at all. And we've all got different challenges. Some are facing challenges of their relationships, some more to do with their work and their performance side of things. And some people like I was struggling with their their sense of identity and, and what's going to come next. When I started it, I thought it was going to be a lead magnet using, using business terminology.

15:13 I thought it was going to be a bit of a lead magnet that would bring these people in that I could learn put through a funnel, the sales funnel to to coach. But I was blown away by what happened over the course of six months thereabouts. I found a lot of men that gravitated towards the community, really embraced that connection, that positivity, that peer support that I've, I've mentioned before. And it's become a real brotherhood. And I've got a lot of people in there that I consider to be my friend.

15:56 And you know, there's a few times that that we've helped each other out as much as as you can. We've even had a a wedding in in the community where where somebody's got married and it was nice to virtually be a part of that experience with him. So it's truly special. Cool. I did not know that. That's neat. So there are a couple of phrases I've seen you share that I want to ask you to expand on. The 1st is something from Menforge Ford. You're not finished, you're just stuck. What does that mean to you? Absolutely.

16:39 From my own experience, it's when you you reach these these moments in your life, and I've had a few of them where it's very easy to feel like you're finished. You've reached the the end of the road. You know, it's so, so dark that you can't see your foot in front of you to, to take that next step and to feel like there's nothing else for you. But there is. There's light at the end of the tunnel for all of us. And sometimes we just need to take those extra couple of steps through, through the fog, through the darkness, to, to see that light and to, to help us to, to move forward.

17:32 So I think it's really, really important that as men, especially we, we have that moment of pause to to think, OK, times are tough. This is really challenging. Whatever the challenge is for us that we have all got that future, we can all keep forging forward and and move on past that. What? Changes when a man gives up on isolation, trying to be the lone wolf, and is willing to be witnessed by other men. In the early days it is quite a difficult transformation for a lot of us. I think we we've got so good at wearing that mask and so good at carrying that hidden load.

18:22 I've talked about that. To let go of that, to show our vulnerability can be really challenging in itself. But when you do, you come to realise that you're not alone. You come to realise that there is a lot of shared struggles, but there's also a lot of shared celebration as well in what we achieve and what we can achieve. And with the Men Forge Forward community, what I've really enjoyed seeing is how we all lift each other up and encourage each other.

19:08 And if somebody's struggling and they don't really know how to tackle a problem, they're able to reach out in a space that feels safe to them. And I know that's a bit of cliche of saying, you know, this is a safe space. But what I found is that this genuinely is. And people have commented how that has helped them to be able to push past something that they were previously struggling with but just didn't know how to to voice that to anybody else. I know when you're one-on-one work, you've shared with me that you have kind of created your own coaching methodology.

19:54 What were you seeing was missing from other approaches that made you create your own thing? A couple of things that the big one that that stood out was the commercial aspects of a lot of the coaching frameworks out there like NLP and and some of the other models that you see. And there's no regulation around the coaching industry. So there's a lot of people that are paying some very high-priced programs to qualify and be approved or certified in a methodology. And there's no actual evidence to suggest what why 1 is better than the other. So for me, that was was part of it. And the other part of it was going back to using my lived experience when I reflected on that and saw the different aspects that I thought was really important. And I've mentioned one big one, which is to Paul's, we're so good at rushing and going ahead first in into things without actually taking that step back to see the whole picture and the bigger impact of things.

21:11 And also obviously coming from the paramedic world as well, there's aspects of that. So it was a bit of an inward journey of my own that I've been used as this catalyst to make a model that works for helping others. So what are some common signs that a man is stuck, even if he's insisting he's fine to the world? There's one there in sometimes if someone's been overly adamant that they are OK. It's often a sign, from my experience, that that is the mask, that they're saying they're fine, they're saying they're fine, they're saying they're fine. But underneath that there is something niggling away, chipping away at them.

22:09 And I think that that's a good one to be aware of because how often do we hear, especially when it comes to the subject of suicide, the people say afterwards, if only we'd seen the signs, if only we'd have have known that they they didn't show any, any sign. So just having a a broader awareness that somebody saying they're fine on the surface is OK, but it doesn't mean that they are fine. Yeah, I find that might be the the most often spoken lie from men. I'm fine, I guess it it's so rarely is true, you know, even that, like why do we settle for fine? Like why is that the go to answer for so many things? Like, you know, why isn't it?

23:04 I'm exceptional, like everything's great, but just I'm fine. It's kind of a blase, you know, Life's OK, I guess. It is, it is. It's I I've learned over the years that when I hear that now, it's a bit of a red flag. So I like to go through the wise, OK, what is that? Then why, why are you fine? What, what's happening? What's happening in your life looks so good. And then you you find that it unravels itself and you get to the get to the truth. What has it been like for you going from sort of researching men's well-being and coaching styles to being in a place of of true leadership and support of men?

23:54 It's been phenomenal. Really, really changed my life. I think if I hadn't have discovered this, this path when I did hands up, I dread to think where I would be now because I was struggling. And I think coming out the other side, it's a, you know, I've already talked about weight, but it is a massive weight off the shoulders. You know, I feel so much lighter, brighter, happier. I say to people, you know, I've reignited my fire. I've got my passion back. And when can help somebody and it doesn't have to be a big transformation.

24:43 Sometimes it's just helping somebody. Maybe they change their, their job or they're able to change something in their, their life and the way they're talking to their, their partner that their relationship suddenly improves or their health gets a little bit better. It's these micro wins that compound. So not only have I got my own wins going on, but I'm also benefiting from the the wins of those I'm supporting. So win, win. And that that's the same in the community, like when, when, when guys share overcoming something, giving appreciation to the rest of their their brothers online or in person like that ripples through too, like the the community gets the win. Absolutely, yeah.

25:33 In Men Forge Forward, there's a a few of the Ogs, if you like the original gang that resonate with that and and they've so I don't want to to tell anybody's story on on here, but there's a fair few that they could tell. And what's the best way for people to connect with you and learn more about men? Forge forward. So if it's the, the community itself, they're, they're interested in, menforgeforward.com takes you to the, the community itself. So men can sign up there. And if anybody wants to reach out to me more personally and find out a bit more about me and the other things I do, then I'm on LinkedIn as well.

26:22 Finally, Sean, what's one thing that you wish more men knew? I think the the thing that I keep coming back to is that it's OK not to be OK. We, we all have our challenges. We all have our our problems. We all have good days and we all have bad days. I think that sometimes we we force ourselves to wear that mask and we don't have to. It's OK not to be OK. Sean, I want to thank you for joining us today and and I want to thank you for getting through your dark times and then using that as fuel to want to help other men through their dark times as well.

27:04 And for not always believing people when they say I'm fine. Perfect. Thank you, Andy. Many thanks to Sean for joining me today and for the work he's doing with Men Forge Ford. This conversation is such a powerful reminder that being stuck doesn't mean you're broken. Sometimes it just means the old version of you no longer fits. If Sean's story resonated with you, check out Men Forge Ford through the links in the show notes. And I also welcome you to join my community. Authentic AF at Real Men feel their org slash group. I am an active member in Sean's group and Sean is also within Authentic AF. We are both men's groups on school and you can't have enough. It's not just one person to follow. It's not just one group, not just one podcast. The world is full of support for you. Until next time, be good to yourself.