Transforming Trauma and Preventing Male Suicide

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It's a really good description
of kind of how our subconscious

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works.
And the quote goes like this.

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Our brain will choose a familiar
hell over unfamiliar heaven

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every single time.
My familiar hell is my nervous

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system being blasted and in
survival mode.

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Hello and welcome to Realman
Feel.

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I'm your host, author, coach and
healer, Andy Grant.

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You can learn more about me at
the andygrant.com.

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On this show, we have
conversations that most men are

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not having, but that all men and
the women who love them can

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benefit from.
Today I'm joined by Aaron

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Gamble, an impact driven life
coach and men's group

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facilitator whose mission is to
lower the rate of male suicide

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by creating safe spaces for
emotional growth, healing, and

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connection.
Drawn from his own journey

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through divorce, fatherhood, and
transformation, Aaron helps men

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rewrite their stories and
reclaim their power.

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And if you're ready to continue
conversations like this, join

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our private community, authentic
AF, at realmenfeel.org/group.

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Let's do it.
Hello Aaron, and welcome to Real

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Men Feel.
Thank you for having me idea,

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appreciate it.
So Aaron, we are both members of

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a a group, A club that I don't
think really anybody wants to be

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part of.
Can you tell me about that

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turning point in your own life
where you really decided changes

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need to be made?
Yes, for me, that moment

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happened five days after my 43rd
birthday.

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I took my kids camping and for
some reason, something inside of

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me was just felt like I'm not
the person that I am meant to

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be, that I had lost myself.
And it, it came in this

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realization that I wasn't happy
in, in the life that I had and

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got home from camping and ended
up getting into an argument with

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my, with my wife at the time,
normal argument, something that,

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you know, happens often.
But something inside me cracked,

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and I went upstairs and I
grabbed a bottle of Xanax and I

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looked down at that bottle of
pills, 25 or 30 inside.

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And I thought to myself, I could
just down all of these and never

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wake up.
And as I was lifting that bottle

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to my mouth, an image of my two
kids, who at the time were five

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and seven, popped into my brain.
They were downstairs in this

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image, laughing and playing Uno
in my living room.

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That image literally saved my
life.

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I thought to myself in that
moment, I cannot leave this

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earth and leave them without a
father.

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I would be doing way more damage
to them if I left.

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And the next thing I had to do
after that was make what I like

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to call the biggest decision
that I've ever made as a man,

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and that was to put myself into
the hospital.

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So I called a friend and had him
pick me up, said goodbye to my

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family, told my kids that I was
going off onto a job, which is

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something I normally did in the
film industry.

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I would leave for weeks on end
to go to a random city or state

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to film a movie or TV show.
And I checked myself into UCLA

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Medical Center, into the
behavioral health unit.

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I spent five days at UCLA, two
days of that five day, 2 days

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into that, my wife came to visit
me and she didn't come to visit

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me to offer support or care or
or whatever.

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She she came to tell me that
she's filing for divorce.

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And to be very honest and clear
with you, I was already at a

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pretty low place.
That was a breaking point for

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me.
And but it also at the same

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time, like are you familiar with
The Dark Knight of the Soul or

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the Joseph Campbell's Hero's
Journey?

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All 2.
That was my dark night of the

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soul.
That moment I was at rock bottom

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and I felt like after that,
based on how I grew up getting a

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divorce, was going through the
rock bottom floor.

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You can't get any deeper.
At the same time.

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That was the beginning of my
Phoenix rising.

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Because what happened after that
is I spent the next three days

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at the UCLA Medical Center.
And then I, the doctor suggested

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that I go to a treatment center,
a residential treatment center

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where was all men.
It's a place where you go and

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it's a bridge between having a
mental breakdown and regaining

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back into society.
And I spent 25 days there.

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And I like to call that
experience my mental health

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college experience because
because every day, six days a

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week, from 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM,
every hour on the hour, we sat

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in this decrepit old living room
of this beat up treatment center

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and we learned a new modality of
psychology.

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I learned DBTACTCBTI, also
learned about emotional

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regulation.
We learned about breath work,

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about yoga, about gratitude
journaling, the list goes on and

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on.
I mean, I could name all the

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acronyms in, in psychology
because we learned every one of

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them.
And it, it was, it really was

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like a college experience.
And I sat in that beat up in

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that beat up living room, and I
took copious amounts of notes.

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I wrote more than I've ever
written in my entire life in 43

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years up to that point.
In those 25 days, I kept every

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single paper.
I, I absorbed so much of this

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information because I wanted to
figure out how to be the best

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version of myself.
I realized that I am in this

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dark place.
That is not who I am.

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That's not what I want to be.
And Andy, I think we're, we're

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pretty sick close in age, right?
Like you're in your 40s as well

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if I had to guess.
I'm in my 50s.

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In 50s, OK, So we still come
from that same kind of latchkey

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kid upbringing, right?
Yeah.

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So a, a, a positive byproduct of
the latchkey kid comes a sense

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of resilience and a sense of, of
what I like to call grit.

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And I know that I possess that.
And this moment that I was in

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understanding that I'm not where
I want to be was just another

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chip to put on my shoulder of a
of a task that I need to to

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overcome.
And that's how I looked at it

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and I learned everything I
possibly could.

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And, and I'll be honest with
you, a lot of the stuff that I

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learned there, I, I do myself
because I, you know, because

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it's, it was amazing.
And I've shifted my life because

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it, I also use that in my
coaching and I teach emotional

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regulation.
I teach, you know, nervous

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system regulation and an
understanding of what you know,

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what your nervous system is
doing.

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It is now become a staple to who
I am today and, and what I do.

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And I, you know, I, I left the
film industry and now I've, I'm

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working as a coach, as, as a
men's group facilitator and, and

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I'm trying to share what I've
learned and what I experienced.

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So hopefully somebody out there
won't have to go through what I

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went through.
Hopefully I can save someone

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from a becoming a, a statistic
and or B having to go through a

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hospital experience, having to
go through putting themselves

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into, you know, the behavioral
health unit or having to go

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through that experience.
If it if somebody is close to

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that and they hear my story and
they see that, you know, they

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can, they can do these things
and learn these tools without

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going through that experience,
then I've I've, I've life goal

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achieved.
There's a lot to unpack there.

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So one of the things you
mentioned was that night real

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thinking that you've lost
yourself and you weren't happy.

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So does that mean earlier in
your life you, you were happy?

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You, you feel, you felt you're
on mission and purpose and doing

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everything right and feeling
good about that.

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Oh, no, no.
But I think in that moment I was

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a step closer to purpose.
I was just surviving up until

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that moment.
I, you know, I, I grew up in an,

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in an, a pretty rough
environment.

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My, my parents were, I like to
call them emotionally immature

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parents.
There's an amazing book called

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Children of Emotionally Immature
parents.

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First of all, that book was life
changing.

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It helped me rewrite my story
and it helped me to do what I'm

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doing now with the we are not
the, I mean, we are not the

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stories that we tell ourselves
and how to rewrite.

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You know, your story, that book
had a lot of huge influence on

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me in that in that way, because
I realized that I am high

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functioning in survival mode and
I've lived, I've gravitated

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toward careers that promoted
that.

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And it's just something that is
pretty normal to me.

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You know, there, there was a
quote actually that that I heard

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a couple years ago that that I
use today.

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And it, and I kind of live by
it.

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And it, it's a really good
description of kind of how our

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subconscious works.
And the quote goes like this.

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It's, it's our brain will choose
a familiar hell over unfamiliar

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heaven every single time.
My familiar hell is my nervous

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system being blasted and in
survival mode because as a

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child, my parents, I never I, I
got really good at reading

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people and being able to read
where my emotional, where the

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emotional level of my parents
were in order to understand

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whether I could say something or
not.

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Because at any moment, you know,
it's that walking on egg shells

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sort of sort of experience.
And that started really young.

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Now, the positive side of that
is that if I were, if I were to

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choose to, to be in the, the
military, I would have been a

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phenomenal soldier 'cause when,
when bullets are flying by, like

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I would get ultra focused and do
the job at, at, at, you know, at

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hand.
You know, I, I, I know that I, I

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gravitated toward careers, my
first job, very, very grateful

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for the person who, who helped
me get to this position.

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But first job I, I worked at
was, was in a hospital.

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I, I worked as an orderly and I
was like helping people.

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And then I, you know, moved into
the emergency room and was like

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helping trauma cases and
assisting as a medical

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assistant.
And I would work in surgery and

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work in all these environments.
And I believe that was because

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my body, my brain, my
subconscious was gravitating

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toward that activated nervous
system because that's what it

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knows.
That's what's familiar.

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Now on the long run of that,
it's not very healthy for you.

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You know, the film industry is
also the same thing like film

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industry's freelance.
Every second that we are not

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filming, you're burning of half
$1,000,000.

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And, and that's the theme of, of
being on a, on a film set is

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like, you need to go, go, go, or
we're going to run out of money.

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And it's, you know, it's very
nervous system, nervous system

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activating.
And I thrived in that

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environment.
To answer your question, no, I

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didn't know what my purpose was.
I, I wasn't happy.

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I was just living and I was
living in that, in that blasted

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nervous system.
I was surviving and I found joy

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in small ways.
And I think, you know, to, to be

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honest with you, I would, I
would used coping mechanisms

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that were unhealthy in order to,
to find joy, like drinking or

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drugs or, or whatever it may be.
Fortunately, I'm very lucky.

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I don't have an addictive
personality.

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So none of that stuff became a
problem.

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And, and today, like I, I don't,
you know, I'm, I'm pretty dead

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sober.
I, I don't drink.

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I, I may, you know, I may play
around with some micro dose of

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psilocybin or something like
that, but I don't, I don't do

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any of the substances that I was
doing prior to, to going into

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the hospital.
And I kind of realized that I

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can function at a different
level completely sober.

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And that's, and, and I don't
have to hide from my past or my

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traumas.
I can face that and understand

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that.
And, and that's what I really

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try to try to teach in, in my
own work now is like, listen, we

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don't have to run away from
that.

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You can face it.
You can face that shadow because

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it's your own shadow and it's
your own story and you have the

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ability to rewrite that.
It's going to take some work and

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it's not going to be easy, but
we but we can do that.

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In your mental health college,
you said that you had decided

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you wanted to be the best
version of yourself.

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For WHO?
For me for, for that inner child

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in me.
You know, it's interesting.

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That's a really quick question,
Andy.

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Like I was going to therapy
prior to to that experience and

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I was trying to unpack my, some
of my trauma and it wasn't

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really working.
And I realized that it wasn't

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working because I was doing it
for my family.

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I was doing it to save my
marriage.

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00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,920
I was doing it to save my kids
because at that time, I was

224
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,480
operating under this idea that
one toxic home is way better

225
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:44,000
than two happy homes.
And that divorce was like

226
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,720
failure to me.
And that that I would just be

227
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,440
repeating the same childhood
traumas that I experienced on my

228
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,880
kids.
And that was one of the biggest

229
00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:00,200
crutches that I had to come come
to terms with in going through

230
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,280
this divorce, going through
this, this experience that I

231
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,000
went through because I just
always thought that if I get a

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00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,720
divorce, I'm going to fail.
I'm going to grow up and my kids

233
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,240
are going to get a stepdad that
is a piece of crap.

234
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,000
And you know, and, and they're
going to live the same life that

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I lived growing up.
And, and to me, that was

236
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,480
ultimate failure.
And once I got over that and

237
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,040
realized that I have to do this
for myself.

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00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,200
And when I can, when I can heal
myself, I can heal that inner

239
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,800
child within me.
I can heal this, this body, then

240
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:43,440
I can show up as a good partner.
I can show up as a conscious and

241
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,720
loving dad and, and you know, I
can show up in my job as a

242
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,120
full-fledged human being and
like really give to others

243
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,840
because I can't give to anybody
else until I have fixed what's

244
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,600
inside of me.
And, and I'm not going to sit

245
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,640
here and say that I'm fixed and
I'm healed.

246
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,560
And you know, like, like, no,
I'm, I'm not, I'm not at all.

247
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:07,840
I'm human.
I'm still going through this

248
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,600
stuff, but I've taken some big
freaking chunks out of that and

249
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,080
enough to know and I've learned
enough to be able to help others

250
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,720
take big chunks out of out of
that, that child, that trauma or

251
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,920
whatever it is.
What inspired you to go from

252
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,840
It's Finally Time to take care
of Myself to now I want to be of

253
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,080
service to others?
That's really interesting

254
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,320
question.
I think I've always had that in

255
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:39,560
me and I think what inspired me
was the realization that this is

256
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,920
what I meant to do.
You know, this, one of the

257
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,520
things that pops up for me is,
is a story of that I, I often

258
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,320
tell is when I was working in
the film industry, I was a

259
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,480
camera assistant.
Like my job was to pull focus

260
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,880
and to make sure it's in focus.
So to explain that is anytime

261
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,600
you've watched a movie or ATV
show and it kind of goes out of

262
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,880
focus for a little bit and not
in a creative way, but in a in a

263
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,800
sort of distracting way.
That's somebody at my job

264
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:10,079
messing up.
And that was the best they were

265
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:13,599
able to do in the however many
takes it took them to get that

266
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,880
shot.
So I had to be ultra focused on

267
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,160
what's happening during the
rehearsals and when the director

268
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,720
and the actor are working out
what that what that what's going

269
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,400
to happen on camera.
I have to be very aware.

270
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,160
And what kept happening to me in
the entire time in my 15 year

271
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,480
career is there's a lot of a lot
of stand around waiting time.

272
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,560
You're waiting for the actor to
get dressed, you're waiting for

273
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,680
the lights to get turned on.
So my job didn't really start

274
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,760
until we were getting closer to
actually filming.

275
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:53,800
And what would happen is there'd
be these men that, you know,

276
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:59,400
were builders or the electrician
or, you know, these these guys

277
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,080
who are old, been working in the
film industry forever, never

278
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,480
been to therapy, never talked to
anybody about any of their

279
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,080
personal problems, Would come
and have a conversation with me

280
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:11,400
and we would quickly go deep.
And then I would be in this deep

281
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,040
conversation talking to this
person and telling me and they'd

282
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,240
be telling me these really like
personal things they've never

283
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,440
told even their wives.
And the entire time I'm looking

284
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,800
over going, I really want to be
in this conversation, but I

285
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,840
really need to pay attention to
what's going on over here.

286
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,240
And you know, I had this great,
great camera assistant that that

287
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,720
I would hire all the time.
And we would carry these walkie

288
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,160
talkies and have like the little
earpiece in our ear.

289
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,160
And he'd get on the
walkie-talkie and he'd go, hey,

290
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,960
Chatty Cathy, come on.
We got to get to work.

291
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,480
And what I then realized, this
is a long, sort of convoluted

292
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,800
story to say that like being of
service, having these deep

293
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,800
conversations, helping people
get through whatever it is they

294
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,480
may be getting through was
coming to me while I was doing

295
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,640
another job.
And it it was, it was almost

296
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,520
like this is what I'm supposed
to be doing.

297
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,680
This job in the film industry is
just kind of getting in the way

298
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,040
of that.
So when I had that realization

299
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,320
that this was already happening,
I started thinking like, how can

300
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,520
I, how can I do this for a
living?

301
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,320
How can I make a career so I
don't have to do the film

302
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,640
industry thing anymore and I can
just do what is already coming

303
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,560
in my direction.
And that's what that's what led

304
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,200
me to helping others.
I, I've always, I've just always

305
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,920
been that way.
It it just, I just didn't

306
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,320
understand that you can make a
job out of that.

307
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,720
So you talk about the importance
and the ability we have to

308
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,000
rewrite our stories.
What part of your story did you

309
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,520
need to rewrite first?
The first one, I would say, the

310
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,720
first story that I had to
rewrite was kind of what I

311
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:56,560
explained earlier is that I'm
not going to repeat the traumas

312
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,080
and the generational trauma that
I experienced on my kids.

313
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:08,240
Just the fact that I am aware of
those is already 50% better than

314
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,360
than what I grew up in.
Like I'm already already setting

315
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:15,560
my kids up for success because I
know I'm aware.

316
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:22,320
Getting over the the one toxic
home versus versus 2 happy

317
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:27,760
homes, that was a big one.
And then really rewriting the

318
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,080
story.
Like my story involves a lot of

319
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,720
a lot of self worth problems
being heard, being seen, being

320
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,760
accepted.
I had to understand that I

321
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,920
actually have a courageous voice
and that my voice can be heard

322
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,760
and that I am worthy of stepping
into the conversation.

323
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:56,200
And a lot of that came with
letting go of the, the

324
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,200
victimhood idea that I was this
damaged kid and that it's my

325
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,360
parents fault that I grew up
this way and that my parents

326
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:10,640
were the reason why I, you know,
have low self worth, that I

327
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,400
don't feel seen or heard.
And, you know, they, they, they

328
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,880
were involved in that.
But there's no fault.

329
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,960
There's no, you know, like I'm,
I'm not a victim of my

330
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,240
experience.
I had my experience.

331
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,560
I have the ability to overcome
that experience now.

332
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,320
And that's what I kind of, you
know, involved in rewriting the

333
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,080
story.
It's like we're, I lived in

334
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,920
victimhood for a really long
time and I was really good at

335
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,800
diffusing and, and placing blame
and shifting responsibility away

336
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,800
from myself and, and putting it
on somewhere else and putting

337
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,520
myself in the victim role.
So getting over that and

338
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:57,120
understanding that whatever that
happened was 30 years ago and

339
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:04,000
that now I can make a choice as
a man to face that or be the

340
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,520
victim and not take
responsibility for those

341
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,600
feelings that I'm that I've been
having for 30 years.

342
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,440
That was the biggest moment.
And once I started going in that

343
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,440
direction, everything started to
change.

344
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,040
So I know part of your mission
is drastically lowering the rate

345
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:28,320
of male suicide.
What do you think is the main

346
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,800
obstacle in the way for men
asking for help?

347
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,360
I think to answer that question,
we have to kind of go back to

348
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,560
sort of the old school model
that that most of us men have

349
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,520
been, have been sort of
programmed into.

350
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,520
And, and I, I, you know, I'm
sure you've heard this and

351
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,000
anybody else who's relatively
around our age and even some of

352
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,440
the younger guys probably have
heard it as well.

353
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,560
It's this old mantra of you put
your head down, you bury your

354
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,280
emotions, you work hard and you
provide for your family.

355
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:07,720
And I think that is kind of a
basis for the mind frame that

356
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:12,200
men have have been in for
generations of even even beyond

357
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,960
yours, you know, both of ours.
It's this idea that we're not

358
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,440
allowed to have emotions.
You know, I was having a

359
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,360
conversation with a friend of
mine about this just the other

360
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,360
day and he said something really
poignant that really stuck with

361
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,440
me.
And he said, you know, the only

362
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,600
emotion that a man is really
acceptable in society to have is

363
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,000
anger.
And it's not acceptable in a

364
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,560
positive way.
But we're not supposed to cry.

365
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:41,840
We're not supposed to have
shame.

366
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,920
We're not supposed to feel joy.
We're not supposed to feel any

367
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,960
other emotion.
But anger is maybe allowed for

368
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:57,000
me that is that's the reason why
we have the such a high

369
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,920
statistics we have.
I also think that, you know,

370
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,080
it's not necessarily men's
faults.

371
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,400
You know, it it, it's kind of
like societal programming when

372
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,840
you have these generations of
men that were raised by war

373
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,520
veterans who were raised by war
veterans, who were raised by war

374
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,600
veterans, who all were taught to
not express or talk about the

375
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,520
things that they experienced,
you know, down range or down in

376
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,680
in war.
And I think of that has a ripple

377
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,880
effect on every other generation
moving forward.

378
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,800
You're just taught not to talk
about it.

379
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:37,120
You bury that emotion and what's
happening is what you know that

380
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,840
I, I like to question, like what
happens when you can't bury that

381
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,760
emotion anymore?
What happens when that emotion

382
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,960
comes bubbling up and you don't
know how to process that

383
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,080
emotion?
And I think that's the reason

384
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,280
why the second leading cause of
death for men 45 and under this

385
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,840
is as of 2022 is suicide.
And the first leading cause of

386
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,560
death is unintentional injury,
meaning you could get hit by a

387
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,560
car, you could have something
fall out of the sky and, and,

388
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,480
you know, kill you, You could,
you know, have an aneurysm.

389
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,200
There's a, there's a million
different, different causes of

390
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,240
death under unintentional injury
and suicide is just below that.

391
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,720
And again, like I was almost one
of those statistics.

392
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,880
So for me, like I want to lower
that and I want to teach men how

393
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:31,000
to A, recognize their emotions
and B, how to process that and

394
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,920
how to how to be aware that an
emotion is coming up, what that

395
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:40,840
feels like in your body.
So is to move from awareness of

396
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:46,840
suicide as an issue to real
action about it all, about men

397
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,280
learning to feel, to express, to
get to get the shit out of them.

398
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,600
Yeah, I think that's the first
part of it.

399
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,600
Yes, awareness, you know, it's,
it's, you know what one of the,

400
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,560
one of the big mantras that I
have in, in the men's group that

401
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,640
that I run is men are we're
fixers.

402
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,720
We're very analytical.
You have an interaction with,

403
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,800
with, with your partner.
You know, in my case, I'll use

404
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,520
myself as, as my partner by my
ex-wife or whatever.

405
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,120
They'll come with an emotional
emotional problem and the first

406
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:25,280
thing, the first unconscious
thought that that us as a man,

407
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,760
that I am as a man, I'm going to
say I'm just using my own

408
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,480
experience is OK.
How do I fix this?

409
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,040
What things do I need to do in
order to to change this emotion

410
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,360
into from from sorrow or pain or
anger to to joy?

411
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,080
What are the what are the steps
that I need to take to do that?

412
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:51,400
But when it comes to being
inside, in, in within us as men,

413
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:57,280
we need to learn how to actually
step out of our minds and into

414
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,840
our hearts or into our bodies,
because that's where the

415
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,480
feeling, that's where the
emotion it is comes from.

416
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,480
You know, it, it also kind of
lines with there's a, there's a

417
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,120
great book called the body keeps
score.

418
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,440
And the idea is that we store,
we store our emotions in, in

419
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,360
parts of our body.
And if we're not accessing that

420
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,280
body, accessing that heart, then
we're not ever going to process

421
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,680
that emotion.
And when you're, when we're

422
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,960
living, when I'm living in my
head and trying to fix this

423
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:36,080
thing and not feeling it and
it's, it's, you're just putting

424
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,600
a Band-Aid on a gaping wound.
In your men's group, is there a

425
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,760
common fear or hesitation that
that a guy displays like on his

426
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,000
at his first visit?
Oh, always, yes, of course,

427
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,080
always.
Fame is a really big thing.

428
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,000
I think for men, I'll use an
example.

429
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,080
I'm not going to use any names
because I like to protect

430
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,040
privacy.
It's really important in in the

431
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,400
men's groups, but I can use the
generalization and, and use a

432
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,080
name as one of the guys in the
group.

433
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,640
He was new.
He's very open gentleman.

434
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,400
He was OK with talking about
what what, you know, what was

435
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,160
going on in the work he's been
doing and, and where he's where

436
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,560
he's at and where he's moving
and that and that was great for

437
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,160
being the first time in in the
men's grip.

438
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,160
I was like, OK, this guy's, you
know, he's doing the work and he

439
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,720
but then he mentioned something
that was really interesting

440
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,440
where he said, you know, I've
had a problem.

441
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,720
You know, one of the reasons why
I'm here is because I've tried

442
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,200
to talk to some of my friends
about these situations and it is

443
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,760
hurt friendships where they like
those men aren't aren't able to

444
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,040
to receive that or to talk about
it.

445
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,920
And then I don't and then I'm
not, you know that like they

446
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,240
don't want to be friends.
They pull back.

447
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:57,680
And what he was describing was
was a level of shame of a fear

448
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:04,120
of if I be get vulnerable, how
is somebody gonna gonna receive

449
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,440
that?
And how is that gonna be

450
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,880
received?
And in that moment, in that that

451
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,880
I just described, that wasn't
received very well.

452
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,040
He lost a friend.
So it's like you take one step

453
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,800
forward and it's it's not a
great step.

454
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,760
You're sliding back five steps.
You know, like now as men, it's

455
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,000
like, oh, well, we're going to
we're going to be vulnerable.

456
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,520
It's very vulnerable to even
share those kind of things.

457
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,360
And then and then extra
vulnerable to talk about what it

458
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,720
is with another person.
And if that person isn't able to

459
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,840
receive or hold space for that,
it's like, Oh, well, I'm never

460
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,960
going to talk about that to
another person at all, you know?

461
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:48,080
And so I think men's groups are
amazing because it's literally

462
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,040
the space to have those
conversations.

463
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,760
We're going in with an agreement
that we're not going to judge

464
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,600
anybody for anything that they
say.

465
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,960
We're going to hold space, we're
going to support.

466
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,520
And 9090% of the time, there's
at least one to two other men in

467
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,720
that group who are going to
raise their hand and say, I'm

468
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,680
experiencing that as well.
And thank you for saying it

469
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,840
right now, because I also feel
that way.

470
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,360
I also grew up that way.
I also have had those same

471
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,240
thoughts.
And now in that situation,

472
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,440
you're not alone.
You're not with a group of

473
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,520
people who are going through the
same thing.

474
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,880
And that is true connection.
And that's what we're that's,

475
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,560
that's what we're trying to do
here.

476
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,160
You know it.
There is a silent epidemic that

477
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,360
we talked about a little bit of
suicide, but there's also a

478
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,080
silent epidemic of loneliness.
I like to call it the, the lone

479
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,280
wolf syndrome.
You know, most men, I, I would

480
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,040
say, I would say a lot of men
in, in a, particularly in, in

481
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,760
getting into their late 30s and
40s, probably count on one hand

482
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,000
how many close friends they
have.

483
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,040
And then out of those close
friends probably gets down to

484
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,320
single digits on how many they
can actually talk about deep

485
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,480
like emotional things that are
going on.

486
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:13,760
So having a space that you can
feel safe to, to talk to and to

487
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,720
open up and to, to connect with,
it's, it's paramount.

488
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:25,040
It's it's funny, not funny with
all the anti wokeness things

489
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,960
that have come about and making
fun of, you know, safe spaces

490
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,920
and college students needing
safe and all this stuff.

491
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,760
And it's still, I see it every
day and it's what you're

492
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,640
describing.
Men need to feel safe somewhere

493
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,400
in order to open up.
You know what I'm very

494
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,360
fascinated with like masculine
and feminine dynamics and I, I,

495
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,680
I study a lot of, I don't know
if you're familiar with John

496
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,600
Wyland.
He wrote this great book called

497
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,680
From the Core and he's very big
on sacred intimacy and

498
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,040
relationships.
And you know, there's, there's

499
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,400
this polarity that happens with,
with masculine feminine and, and

500
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,760
men usually, you know, it can go
both ways.

501
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,000
You can have dynamics where a
woman is more the masculine and

502
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,160
the man is more the feminine.
And it's, you know, it's a, it's

503
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,520
a, it's a ever revolving sort of
polarity.

504
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,160
And I think, I think what
happens is under the normal

505
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:23,400
society and normal programming,
US men, we're supposed to

506
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,440
provide safety for others.
You protect your family, you

507
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,440
protect your partner, you
provide safety.

508
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,720
A woman can open up and be
loving and be caring when she

509
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,640
feels safe.
We are the product of, of, of

510
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,240
making them feel safe, but we
don't actually have anybody to

511
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,880
make us feel safe.
And there isn't really a

512
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,360
conversation about other men
helping other men feel safe.

513
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:55,880
So providing a space to be able
to do that, it's powerful.

514
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,240
I also think, and this doesn't
even go with men.

515
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,160
This is just people in general.
We, we live in a time with

516
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,760
social media, 24 hour news, like
all of all of this thing.

517
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,480
We get more information than we
ever have before in history.

518
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,960
And with all the different
social media platforms and

519
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,760
everybody being encouraged to,
you know, speak their voice and,

520
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,120
and show the world who you are,
what you're doing there, there

521
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:31,400
comes this false sense of, of
connection where you can like,

522
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,720
I'll use, use an example, Andy,
I could watch your Instagram or

523
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,960
your, or your Facebook or your
whatever, whatever social media

524
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,760
platform that you use and get a
sense of like that.

525
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,000
I know you, we've never had a
real conversation.

526
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,920
We've never been in the same
space together.

527
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,760
But I know all the things that
you have done based on what

528
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,480
you've done.
That's not necessarily

529
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,760
connection, that's information.
But when we get in a room

530
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,160
together and we actually sit
down and we truly connect,

531
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,280
there's an energy that happens
in that and there's a, there's

532
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,480
AI don't like to use the word
healing, but but there's a

533
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,480
particular energy that happens
when you feel connected to

534
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,400
someone.
So we get this sense of false

535
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,520
sense of connection and that
becomes from social media.

536
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,960
And now I believe that we're in
2025, we are now coming to a

537
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,880
premises or, or a, a pinnacle
point where people are looking

538
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,760
for connection in person
connection as much as they can

539
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,560
because we've all been living in
a world of false connection.

540
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,520
So that's where men's groups
come in, like like almost every

541
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,360
single time in a men's group,
the ones that I've attended,

542
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,040
ones that I've LED, that I've
been a part of, everyone feels

543
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,520
connected.
Most of the men feel connected.

544
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,000
Like if you were to go around a
circle and say what's the one

545
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,080
word that you could state after?
After having this experience,

546
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,080
half of the people are going to
say I feel connected.

547
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,880
And in my experience, it's that
can even be the very first

548
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:03,600
meeting for.
People.

549
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,360
Yeah.
Oh, 100%.

550
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,920
Often guys are surprised how
different better they feel from

551
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,560
just attending a single meeting.
Yeah.

552
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:16,280
I mean, imagine what would
happen if you start going

553
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,680
consistently.
Yeah.

554
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,440
So if there's a man listening,
stuck in shame, in anger,

555
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,480
perhaps even hopelessness, what
would be the the first small

556
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,720
step that you recommend?
I think the first small step is

557
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:36,040
to understand what that feels
like in your body.

558
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,080
What does that feel like naming
that emotion?

559
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,840
Being able to name it, I'm
feeling anger, you know, there's

560
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,320
5 core emotions.
I think it's joy, sadness,

561
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:56,480
anger, shame and despair.
I might be missing one.

562
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,520
I usually have it written down.
But if you can name one of those

563
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,720
core emotions and then be able
to name where it comes up in

564
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:09,560
your body, that's the very first
step to then figuring out how to

565
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,640
regulate yourself when that's
happening.

566
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,320
So that would be the first
thing.

567
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,520
I think the next thing really is
I, I'm really big into breath

568
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,400
work, breathing, breathe through
it.

569
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:27,240
A lot of times we want to
disassociate or, you know, go to

570
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:32,720
a coping mechanism that may not
be healthy and being able to sit

571
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:36,080
in that emotion and understand
that it's going to process

572
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,800
through your body and to be able
to breathe through that

573
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,560
consciously.
Like imagining what I do for my,

574
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,320
for myself, This is, I do this
often is I imagine that I'm a

575
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,000
tiny little piece of oxygen
that's just floating around in,

576
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,440
in the air.
And that I'm going through the

577
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,920
experience of a breath going up
into my nose, down my, you know,

578
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,120
and into my lungs and bouncing
around in my lungs and then

579
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:11,760
coming back up and out my mouth.
And just by by putting the

580
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,680
intention into that breath of
following that little, you know,

581
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:22,800
tiny piece of oxygen, molecule
of oxygen, it can actually help

582
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,960
you regulate whatever that
emotion is.

583
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,600
Because now you're not thinking
about that emotion.

584
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,520
You're not ruminating on
whatever it is that pissed you

585
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,080
off.
You're thinking about that piece

586
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,880
of or that molecule of oxygen
and and you're allowing your

587
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,480
subconscious brain in the back
of your head to go through and

588
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,520
process whatever that anger is.
Cool, I like that I that takes

589
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,520
focus on your breath to the
deepest level possible probably.

590
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,280
Yeah.
Aaron, what's one thing you wish

591
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,520
more men knew?
I mean, I think it goes back to

592
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,000
my mantra in, in the, you know,
in, in the men's groups, it's,

593
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,800
it's we knew how to get out of
our heads and into our hearts,

594
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,520
how to feel more, do less fixing
and more feeling.

595
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,840
So Aaron, how can people best
learn about more about you and

596
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,400
everything that you offer?
Yeah, I've got a website at

597
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,720
aarongamble.com.
It's GA MB ELAA, Ron

598
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,600
aarongamble.com.
I'm also on Instagram at Aaron M

599
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,240
Gamble and TikTok at Aaron
Gamble.

600
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,200
I also have a free five step
guide to rewrite your story,

601
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,120
breaking free from the past and
reclaiming your power.

602
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,480
If anybody's interested in that,
you can just sign up on my

603
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,600
website and I'll I'll send you
the PDF.

604
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,000
Awesome, Aaron, it's great to
connect with you again.

605
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,560
We have so many similar
experiences, good and bad.

606
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,720
And I, I've just, I just
recently updated my book, still

607
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,520
here, How to Succeed in Life
after Failing at suicide.

608
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,320
It's the 10th anniversary and
I've, I've gone through and all

609
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,600
that.
So it's all top of mind.

610
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,360
And you're just echoing so much
of the things that I discovered

611
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,280
and thought I was alone and the
only person going through these

612
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,360
things.
So thank you for being you.

613
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,600
Thank you for sharing you and
getting out there and helping

614
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,480
other men not have to go through
the path that we've gone through

615
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,200
to realize they're meant to be
alive.

616
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,360
I think thank you for saying
that.

617
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,080
I appreciate that.
And I also want to thank you for

618
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,160
giving me the opportunity to be
on this podcast and to tell my

619
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,760
story because you never know who
may need to hear it.

620
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,720
I mean, I think that's why we,
you and I are doing what we do.

621
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,480
It's because there is one person
that may hear this podcast and

622
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:42,200
it may gift for them and they
meet, may ask for help that they

623
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,120
may never have known how to ask
for.

624
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,720
And if one person doesn't have
to go through what we went

625
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:52,360
through, that is goal.
Goal completed.

626
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,920
Yeah, couldn't agree.
Thank you for for the

627
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,240
opportunity to to speak here and
for doing what you're doing and

628
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:01,680
writing the book.
And, and also congratulations 10

629
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,120
years.
I'm I'm grateful that you're

630
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,080
here right now.
And I bet you're the same way.

631
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,720
So many people will confess to
me that they've made an attempt,

632
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,720
that they've thought about it
and will say that they've never

633
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,960
told anybody else.
And you are that walking safe

634
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,080
space.
Yes, yes.

635
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,560
And other other men can be too,
yeah.

636
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:25,520
Yes.
Thank you for listening to Real

637
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,120
Men Field today.
If this conversation resonated

638
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,080
with you, I invite you to join
our authentic AF community at

639
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,880
realmenfield.org/group.
A space for men to authentically

640
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,760
connect, share, and grow.
Big thanks to my guest Aaron

641
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,480
Gamble for reminding us that
when men feel safe to open up,

642
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,720
transformation is possible.
Until next time, be good to

643
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:49,120
yourself.