Why Vulnerability is the Key to Manhood

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If I sum it down to one word,
it's vulnerability.

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Like if we want to try to tackle
this mantle and these, this idea

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of being siloed, being
individualized, we have to take

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off our armor.
Like to be vulnerable means to

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be open to being wounded.
And we as men really don't like

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that idea of letting our guard
down, of letting people in.

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Welcome to Real Men Feel.
I'm your host, Andy Grant.

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Today's conversation is a
powerful one.

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I'm joined by therapist, author,
and speaker Ethan Getchel, who

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brings a deeply personal lens to
men's mental health.

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After losing his younger brother
to suicide, Ethan made a bold

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career shift into mental health
counseling.

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He now focuses on helping young
men navigate grief, depression,

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and the pressure of being a man
today.

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If you've ever felt like you had
to act like you've got it all

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figured out, this episode is for
you.

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And if you're looking for more
real talk and connection with

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like minded men, check out the
authentic AF community at

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realmenfield.org/group.
It's a space to be seen,

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supported, and real.
Let's do it now.

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Even I know that your career
path into therapy was a deeply

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personal 1.
So can let's start off.

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Can you tell me a bit about your
brother Austin?

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Yes, absolutely.
My name's Ethan.

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I'm in clinical social work.
I'm in a depression and suicide

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clinic.
Before I was doing that, I was

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on track to go into commercial
real estate.

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And prior to that I was going to
Hope College for business and

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communication.
And it was in my junior year at

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Hope that my youngest brother,
Austin died by suicide.

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And that was the first time I
was really exposed to the silent

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suffering that young men go
through.

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So really since that day, I have
kind of grown this passion

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through my own grieving journey
to my own struggles, and then

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also kind of seeing what Austin
went through or not seeing what

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Austin went through.
And that's really driven me to

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pursue this career path.
And how old was Austin?

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He was 16.
And had you had any idea that he

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was struggling at all?
No.

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And you know, in hindsight, it's
always 2020.

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We try to put the dots together
and come up with, like, what

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could have been happening there.
I have another brother, Hayden,

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So there's three of us.
I'm the oldest of three

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brothers, and Hayden and I are
very similar, more extroverted,

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spend more time outside.
Austin was a redhead, so he was

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kind of naturally more
introverted, kind of avoided the

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sun.
He liked video games more.

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So there was kind of that
dissonance growing up where we'd

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be like, hey, let's go outside.
Like, no, I want to stay inside.

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So kind of just like a little
natural disposition that we kind

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of just embraced and kind of let
him be.

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But again, in hindsight, it's
like we just wonder, was that a

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factor?
Was he spending too much time

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alone?
Was he spending time online

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looking at whatever?
Like pretty unfiltered,

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uncontrolled.
So we speculate things, but

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there was no explicit like, hey,
I'm feeling this way.

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No history of mental health
issues really.

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Kind of your your cookie cutter
kind of normal guy when you kind

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of think of one in your head.
Was there a specific moment that

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you realized you really wanted
to be of service and and change

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your career?
Yeah, it was.

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The first thought was like 8-9
months into my own grieving.

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So this was my junior year.
I finished out the semester.

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I contemplated going back senior
year or taking like a gap year

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but really wanted to finish my
schooling out.

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So got started senior year and
just like realized how hard it

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was to like grieve and grow as
this new person.

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Like I was very changed after
Austin passed.

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And so that was the first time
that I started going to therapy

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and wrestling with these hard
questions and really fell in

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love with therapy, which is
funny because I was someone that

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prior to that was like, people
don't need therapy.

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That's not a thing.
Like I have friends, family,

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like you shouldn't need therapy.
And then to have that really 180

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after Austin passed.
And so to have a good

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experience, to see what Austin
was going through and also was

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just like a knowledge pursuer, I
started reading books.

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So I read of Boys and Men by
Richard Reeves and it really

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just like called to attention.
Like Austin's not the only one

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going through this.
This is actually like a really

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big issue.
So I really felt like I wanted

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to use my strengths and gifts
and passions and energy to

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pursue this head on.
The the, the notion that nobody

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needs therapy.
What was that something that was

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just told to you?
Or is that just because you

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didn't see anybody in your
environment going to therapy?

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Probably a little bit of both.
I didn't really see anybody in

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my community go to therapy.
I'm from a really small rural

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town of like 3000 people.
So it was kind of like either

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you are OK, you look OK or you
or you don't talk about it.

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And so growing up, there was an
emphasis on like physical

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health.
And if you were taking care of

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yourself physically and you
looked good, then you know, that

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should be a sign that you feel
good.

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Your mental health is good.
You know, I now know that that's

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silly.
But so there was an emphasis on

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eating healthy and working out,
but there was never really

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explicit talk around like mental
health.

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And there's some new challenges
today that my parents didn't

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face, technology and social
communications and things like

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that.
And so there is a lot of

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unknown.
One of the things we hold on to

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is like, we did the best we
could with the information that

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we had.
And we're kind of at this new

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frontier coming out of pandemic
AI technology.

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Like all these things are
impacting young minds so much.

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And that's been like a real
curiosity, right?

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In regards to your own grieving,
what was there something that

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helped you the most that you
would like to share with others?

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You know, my life's kind of been
a series of like trial and error

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and you have to really figure it
out.

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One of those trial and errors
was like trying to grieve on my

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own with without help.
And that really landed me

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feeling weak, really landed me
like.

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And there is one moment
specifically that like my

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brother Hayden, who really, we
have a good, really good

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relationship.
He he kind of called me out.

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He's like, Ethan, you're, you're
not leaving your room.

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Like you're looking a little
softer.

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You're not working out.
So really these mental health

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things had transitioned and
started affecting my physical

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health pieces.
And so when I saw that, I looked

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in the mirror, I was like, wow,
yeah, yeah.

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I can't keep just trying to push
through this head on stubbornly

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and not get help.
And so I think that's a piece of

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grief where I really learned
that it it's communal and it

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takes having people around and
one of the themes of all of

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these things, suicide, grief,
success in general, to having

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people around you.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I find

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time and time again, how
important community is for the

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highs and lows of life.
Like we're we're not meant to be

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isolated beings.
What are some of the biggest

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mental health challenges that
you see for young men today?

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Oh, man, you know, a lot of
things aren't changed.

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So there's still like financial
aspirations, sense of purpose.

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Like I think that's one that's
kind of transcends time.

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It's kind of always been around,
but I think these new pieces are

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more of emotionally connecting
with people.

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Relationships.
Well, you know, those are still

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also older issues, but I think
the more recent implications and

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struggles are relationships with
technology and a lot of things

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are more digital.
And it's complicated because

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like with Austin, he had some of
his deepest friendships, but

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they're people that he played
video games together with all

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day.
So it's like you can look at

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playing video games all day as a
negative thing, but then you see

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the relationships he's building,
and that's a positive thing.

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And so you have this new
frontier of relationships in the

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digital age, vulnerability,
pornography, like exposure to

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things, so many things that you
know it it, it can be

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overwhelming.
And what do you think men in

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particular struggle to seek help
to open up around depression or

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suicidal thoughts?
It's uncomfortable, it's second

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nature, it's not natural there.
There are these big messages out

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there to figure it out yourself,
to be very individualized, be

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siloed, and I think a lot of
these really strong messages

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that are, that are prevalent
historically are really getting

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in the way of people connecting
with others.

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And in your work, what signals
or signs that someone needs

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support?
Do you see that families and

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friends are missing?
You know, sometimes you get the

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overt, very clear signs of
depression, anxiety, things like

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that.
Someone said overwhelming

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thoughts.
Sometimes you get that cookie

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cutter kind of symptom.
Other times it's not so clear.

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You get young guys who are
really deeply obsessed with a

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hobby or a job or a singular
relationship or gambling or

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substance use.
And often times it takes more of

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a covert form where it may not
necessarily seem like a bad

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thing that they're spending all
day on video games or they're

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spending all day working on this
project.

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But it's this idea of like
losing balance.

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And when that one thing is taken
away, which is kind of their

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crutch holding them up from
these typical depression

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symptoms.
The problem is once they lose

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that thing, then they don't
know.

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They don't have anything else to
rely on.

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And that's what they kind of
fall into, deeper forms of

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depression, suicidality, things
like that.

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I've seen some of your writings.
You you talk about a new vision

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for masculinity.
What does that look like to you?

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I think like if I sum it down to
one word, it's vulnerability.

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Like if we want to try to tackle
this mantle, these, this idea of

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being siloed, being
individualized, we have to take

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off our armor.
Like, to be vulnerable means to

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be open to being wounded.
And we as men really don't like

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that idea of letting our guard
down, of letting people in, of

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potentially getting hurt by
people.

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But it's in that pain, in that
vulnerability and those moments

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where you allow yourself to
possibly get wounded, that you

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connect with people and you
build support and you have

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multiple structures so that if
you lose 1, it doesn't leave you

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falling and crashing and
burning.

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Now you offer coaching as well
as therapy, is that right?

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Yeah, a little bit.
So I'm primarily at the hospital

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and but on the side I'll try
help a a guy or two if I can if

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it fits in my schedule.
And and how are those two

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approaches different?
They're very similar in that I

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try to show up as a human and
just really humanize the

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experience.
Therapy is a little bit

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different because it's typically
higher acuity, it's more

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structured.
People are being referred from

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their doctors and they had
usually it's a paired with

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medication management, things
like that.

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So it's more, at least with the
practice that I met, it's more

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hospitalized.
So you're coming in, you have

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this diagnosis, we're going to
treat it with this modality and

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we're going to try to help you
feel better with coaching.

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It's usually like you would
imagine coaching in other

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aspects.
So I've, I've been on high

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school sports teams, things like
that.

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And, and a coach is really
someone to say, hey, you're on

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this path.
You kind of know where you want

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to get to you.
You have these hiccups, you have

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these obstacles, you're looking
for a second opinion, you're

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looking for maybe some
structure, you're looking for

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some feedback and I can help
walk with you and can offer that

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for you.
So a little bit of different

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spin, but essentially like
there's a lot of similarities.

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Yeah, in in my experience as as
a coach, some of this been

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coached.
Has some of this been in

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therapy?
I found that in therapy it was

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more listening where where a
coach will will can like offer

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more will actually like push me
to take some actions perhaps.

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Does that ring true today?
Yeah, I and I heard this

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metaphor like, and it's kind of
a loose metaphor, but you know,

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therapy is really for that
person who's drowning and

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teaching them how to swim.
And coaching is kind of like

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coming along and helping someone
swim faster.

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So that that that visual kind of
helps me kind of differentiate

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the two.
Like you're not necessarily

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teaching different things.
It's both like the form on how

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to swim, but it's kind of where
that person's AT and how you

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show up in that space.
If someone's drowning, you have

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more life preservers, you have
more tools that you're going to

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provide for that person.
If someone knows how to swim,

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it's like we're really refining,
like the details of how you can

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do it.
Better, Right?

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So it's really what level of
crisis someone might be in.

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Yeah.
What would you say to a young

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man listening to this
conversation who feels hopeless

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00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,160
and helpless and that just
nobody understands what he's

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going through?
You know, I really like to give

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00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,720
me his personal advice as I can,
but you know, there are there

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00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:54,560
are themes in general truth that
can help anyone who's kind of

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struggling with depression.
And, and one of them is just

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like acknowledging that is the
voice of depression that wants

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you to believe these things.
What depression does, what what

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00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,480
shame does is really narrows
your view so that you can only

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see one thing.
And usually it's a negative

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thing.
So I'm not here to say that that

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isn't real, that that's not
happening, but just to try to

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help you widen, broaden your
view so that you can see, you

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know, the good things that are
in your life, along with the

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really real shitty things that
are going on.

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Can you can you step back to see
like the the other things going

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on?
Can you hear that this is coming

259
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,400
from shame, from a place of self
criticism?

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And then, you know, what can we
do to if we can't turn down that

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voice, how can we turn up the
sound of the positive things in

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your life too?
So I was a very depressed and

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suicidal kid.
I've survived multiple attempts

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on my life.
And like, I didn't think I had

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depression.
I thought I was depression and

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it it wasn't all the time, but I
thought normal people were like

267
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just happy constantly.
Like there was this flat affect

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of like, yeah, everything's
great like that.

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That was normalcy and it's not.
But you know, people would offer

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me help and and until it took me
a long time to be ready to

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receive it.
So yeah, what how can parents,

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00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:23,080
friends, communities, how can
you help someone that like isn't

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really honestly ready to receive
help yet?

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I think you have to not be
scared of it and you have to put

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away what you want for that
person.

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I actually just wrote about this
recently.

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Like I, I wrote how to respond
to somebody's suicidal ideation.

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And I talk about like what not
to say it's like, don't go into

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fix it mode.
OK, here's what you need to do.

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You need to get off your phone
and you start working out.

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Dah dah, dah dah.
Don't, don't try to sugarcoat

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00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:53,760
it.
Don't tell them that

283
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everything's going to be OK and
don't make it about yourself.

284
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And I think those first two
things underneath me are doing

285
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,119
that very thing.
You're trying to comfort your

286
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,119
own anxieties and fears and
worries about this person.

287
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,680
In trying to cover yourself,
you're really just getting in

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00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,400
the way of actually helping this
person.

289
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,079
So it's really hard.
It's really hard to say, hey,

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00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:20,359
you have to put aside your own
thoughts, emotions, upbringings,

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00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,800
belief systems that have worked
for you to see this person.

292
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But ultimately, that's what they
need.

293
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,440
Another great metaphor that I
love is this idea of just like

294
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sitting in the mud.
Like, can we just be comfortable

295
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,280
with sitting in the mud with
this person?

296
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,600
And who knows how long it takes?
But if we get comfortable with

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00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,320
sitting in the mud, then it
doesn't matter how long it takes

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00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,000
because you know that
eventually, when this person's

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ready, you'll be there to help
help them get out and clean off.

300
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,640
Yeah I totally agree with
everything you you just shared.

301
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,560
When I was 16, I thought if if
my friends knew how bad I felt,

302
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,480
if they knew how much like
darkness and gross shit was in

303
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,080
me, they would leave.
They would, they would abandoned

304
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,720
me.
So I didn't think I could tell

305
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,400
anyone the truth.
And all I So what's proven to

306
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,280
help me the most is what I could
tell someone how bad I felt,

307
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,320
that I was really just thinking
about ending my life.

308
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,840
And they just stayed.
They they didn't run away.

309
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They didn't shut up.
Yeah.

310
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,360
They didn't try to fix it, just
like, you know.

311
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,280
OK, I hear you.
Now what?

312
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,040
Well, I go so that that we can
say suicide and the world

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00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,800
doesn't end.
And, you know, that's a myth I

314
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,040
run into often is people afraid
to broach it.

315
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,480
Like, like us talking about it
is not going to make anybody act

316
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,040
right?
It's all that energy.

317
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,120
Those thoughts are already
there.

318
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,440
They just haven't been
expressed.

319
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,640
You know, like in Winnie the
Pooh, Eor is like one of your

320
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,960
representations of like
melancholy, depression,

321
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,680
whatever, but he still hangs out
with the gang.

322
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,320
He's still run along like he's
still treated as an equal.

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00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,800
And, you know, he still has the
this personality the entire

324
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,480
duration of the show, but he
he's able to like walk with that

325
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,080
authority or whatever they're
they're going through and and be

326
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:09,080
part of the the group still.
So Ethan, if if Austin could see

327
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,960
the work that you're doing, what
do you think he would say about

328
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,560
it?
I think he'd be really proud, I

329
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:26,360
think he'd be really impressed.
It's so conflicting because I

330
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:32,720
would do anything to Boston back
and at the same time my wife

331
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:38,120
would look very different and I
would be happier to have my

332
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:41,240
brother back.
But I was going down a career

333
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,320
path that was not making me
happy either.

334
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:51,080
And so I'm in a much more
purpose LED job and I have a lot

335
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,200
of passion towards this and I
think he would be really proud

336
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,000
of how I've kind of turn this
pain into into purpose.

337
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,560
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
You you really seem like a

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00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,720
shining example of, you know,
the the story that there's a

339
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,360
gift and in all of our hardest
times, there's a gift right

340
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:16,560
waiting to be and and utilize.
So yeah, I really, you know,

341
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,880
commend you in in turning that
pain into something positive

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00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:24,040
and, you know, I dare say making
your entire family proud of you

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00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,200
and your friend.
Everybody tell.

344
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,920
Me A.
Little about your book Things in

345
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,920
My Pocket.
That was part of my grieving

346
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,200
process too.
So part of graduating from

347
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,600
undergrad, we had to write this
like life of you paper, part of

348
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,200
the capstone and kind of like
what are different life

349
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,680
transitions that you've been
through?

350
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,240
And you know, at that time that
was prevalent. 1 was the

351
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,200
transition of after losing my
brother.

352
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,120
And so I wrote about that, but
I'd also previously written

353
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:56,200
other stories.
I am a big fan of writing.

354
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,160
I write a lot on LinkedIn, but
prior to that I just had a lot

355
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,120
of journal entries.
And so I was kind of reviewing a

356
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:07,480
lot of different stories that I
had written on my computer.

357
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,360
And I was just thinking like,
how can I intertwine these?

358
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,160
How can I create this red
thread?

359
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,440
And also at the time, my friend
came and stayed with me, and

360
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,040
he's a big cyclist.
And so he was out riding his

361
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,840
bike one day and I get a call
from a sister.

362
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,840
He's from Indiana, and his
sister's calling me, you know,

363
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,440
like, confused.
I answer.

364
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,360
It's like Drew's in the ER.
He, he was in a ditch.

365
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,920
I don't know if he got hit or if
he passed out or what happened,

366
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,800
but can you go be with him?
I was like, yeah, absolutely.

367
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,520
So I go there and he ended up
being OK, but while I was just

368
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,840
sitting there kind of waiting
for him and he was resting.

369
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,680
And it just got me thinking
because they found him

370
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,320
unconscious in a ditch and they
pulled out his wallet and they

371
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,280
were able to identify him and
then called sister who called

372
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,080
me.
And it just got me thinking.

373
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,440
I was like, you know, if I was
unconscious in a ditch, what

374
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,360
would people find in my pockets?
A So then I just started

375
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,640
thinking about all the things I
currently had in my pockets.

376
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,320
But then, you know, things I've
had in my pockets prior to.

377
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,760
And then that was kind of just
like a light bulb moment for me.

378
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,000
I was like, oh, this could be a
cool way to weave all of these

379
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,720
stories through my life into
this one book.

380
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,720
And so that's how I came up with
things in my pocket.

381
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,800
Really it's it's a way to
practice what I preach.

382
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,680
So I preach vulnerability and
sharing our stories.

383
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,360
And so I, I did just that.
I really tried to lean into the

384
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:35,280
uncomfortable stories, the the
hard times in my life and it's

385
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,640
more just kind of entertaining
base.

386
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,680
But I hope that people read it
and it leaves them in kind of a,

387
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,360
a point of reflection on like
their own ways that they can be

388
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:47,720
vulnerable.
You don't have to write a book

389
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,960
and share with the whole world,
but how can we lean into the

390
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,600
uncomfortable conversations
more?

391
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,240
Is there anything that gives you
hope about the movement for

392
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:03,680
men's mental health today?
Think the more that I dive into

393
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,800
it on social media and in
education, stuff like that, the

394
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,440
more I just learn of these
amazing people that are doing

395
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,160
incredible work and the strides
that are being made.

396
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,320
Richard Reeves is 1, but
Jonathan Haidt is another one.

397
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,600
The anxious generation, I even
like people like Scott Galloway

398
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,560
who are a little bit louder and
opinionated, which I think is

399
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,520
awesome.
And so many incredible

400
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,520
clinicians that I've met at the
hospital.

401
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,320
And so, yeah, I, I think and
then to also see how they have

402
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:41,400
their own experiences of grief
and pain and loss and how these

403
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,920
people have all done incredible
things from places of pain.

404
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,760
And so it encourages me to know
like, you know, I'm not alone in

405
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,080
this either.
Like as as special and rewarding

406
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,920
and purposeful as it is, it's
like I'm not, I'm not trying to

407
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,560
do something.
I'm not the first person to do

408
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,680
this.
There are many other people who

409
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,920
have done it.
And I really looked at them as

410
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,560
role models.
Ethan, what's one thing you wish

411
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:10,440
more men knew?
It's a good question, I think.

412
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,040
I wish that they knew.
What comes to mind is just like

413
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,480
that.
They don't have to have it all

414
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:24,160
together.
They don't have to be Superman.

415
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,800
They don't have to be on 100% of
the time.

416
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,560
And you know, I don't think this
is a new revelation.

417
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,920
I think people figure this out.
I think unfortunately, a lot of

418
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,720
people figure this out the hard
way.

419
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,560
And so how can you allow
yourself to be human and know

420
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,560
that you don't have to be
perfect?

421
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,120
You don't have to have it all
figured out.

422
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,520
You don't have to do it alone.
Yeah, not even that.

423
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,800
You don't have to.
Nobody does.

424
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,920
Like, like, I think that's an
entire myth that that hurts men

425
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,720
that you can have it all figured
out.

426
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,840
And, you know, alone especially
makes that an impossibility.

427
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:11,280
But yeah, I, I find, and this is
certainly something I did not

428
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,880
see for quite a while.
And, and I was challenged by

429
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,200
this growing up, but the more
I'm willing to be wrong about

430
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,480
things, you know, the more I'm
willing to see, though there's

431
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,200
more to learn like that, that,
that that used to, that used to

432
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,000
feel like life just pummeling
me.

433
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,880
Oh, there's more, come on.
But now I'm like, oh, good,

434
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,960
there's more, right.
So if we can appreciate that

435
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,400
there's more, appreciate our
imperfection, appreciate that we

436
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,080
really don't know anything that
there's more to to experiment

437
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,560
with, you know, trial and error
are all like great things that

438
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,880
that we can use.
And I wish if we could find a

439
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,320
way to celebrate that more in
the daily experience, especially

440
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,760
of young men, instead of going
pick the right major, get the

441
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,520
right job, you know, get it,
make sure you're right.

442
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,000
The first thing you try for
everything you do that that's

443
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,120
just a horrible standard to try
to to reach for anybody.

444
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,800
Yeah, it's this.
It's posture of humility and

445
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,640
curiosity, letting the other
things kind of fall inside.

446
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,320
So Ethan, what's the best way
for people to connect with you?

447
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,040
Linkedin's my main form of
social media, so you can find me

448
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,040
on LinkedIn.
I think I have other social

449
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,560
media, but I'm not as active on
them.

450
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,520
And then I also have a website,
sokayman.proorethangetchel.com,

451
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,560
you can find me on there.
And I also have a newsletter on

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00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,560
Substack.
We'll be sure to have links to

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all those resources in the show
notes for the episode.

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00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,240
Ethan, I really want to thank
you for how you are choosing to

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00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,400
lead your life and in to support
other people in making their

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00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,240
best lives as well.
Thank you.

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00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,840
Thanks for creating the space
and share some of my story.

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00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,160
I think this podcast in in in
spaces like this are amazing.

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00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,840
Big thanks to Ethan Getchel for
sharing his heart, his story,

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00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,200
and his mission to make
emotional vulnerability a

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00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,880
strength, not a weakness for men
everywhere.

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00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,800
If anything in today's episode
resonated with you, don't keep

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00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,520
it to yourself.
Share it with a friend, leave a

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00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,920
review, and most importantly,
take the next step for yourself.

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00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,880
You don't have to do this alone.
Join us in the authentic AF

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00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,760
community for honest
conversations, meaningful

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00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,080
support, and brotherhood.
Visit realmenfeel.org/group to

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00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,160
learn more.
And until next time, be good to

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00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:26,640
yourself.