Boyhood to Manhood: Transforming Boy Behavior in Men

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Now that all of that is fine in
an 8 to 10 year old, but if we

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start having, you know, men that
want to be the centre of the

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universe, the centre of
attention, cannot take

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responsibility, you know, cannot
rule their emotions and want to

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be with a mother, then we start
living in a world that's run by

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boys rather than men.
Hello and welcome to Real Men

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Feel.
The podcaster reminds men that

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they are human too, and that
it's not only OK to feel, it's

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powerful.
I'm your host, Andy Green Today

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I'm joined by Alessandro Fasali,
a men's coach, retreat leader,

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and host of the STFUAL Podcast,
which stands for Shut the Fuck

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Up and Listen.
After hitting rock bottom in his

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own marriage, Alessandro
committed to a deep journey of

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transformation and reclaimed
what he calls integrated

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manhood.
He now helps men step out of boy

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like behaviors, reclaim their
masculine energy, and lead with

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presence in their relationships
and lives.

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We'll be diving into the
difference between boy and man

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behavior, the importance of
rites of passage, and why elder

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wisdom is so crucial in modern
life.

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And hey, if you're looking for a
space to connect with other men

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on the journey of authenticity
and growth, join us in the

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authentic AF community at
realmenfeel.org/group.

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It's free, it's real, it's for
men like you.

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Now let's do it.
Hello Alessandra, and welcome to

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Real Men Feel.
Thank you so much for having me,

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Andy.
Yeah, we.

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So I was on your podcast a
little bit ago, so I've been

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looking forward to this
conversation.

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When we spoke early, you talked
that there was a turning point

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in your marriage when you asked
what the fuck is a man?

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So can you tell me about?
First of all, I would say this

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is this turning point sort of
pushed me into the the works

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that I'm doing now.
Essentially, my wife told me

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that she wanted to be me to be
more of a man or she was

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leaving.
This came at a certain point in

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my life and I basically got so
angry enough.

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It's like, I am a man.
Like, what the fuck do you mean?

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Like I have balls?
Like what are you talking about?

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What that did though for me was
it maybe actually have to search

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for what that answer meant to
me.

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You know, that got me on a
journey of losing weight.

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It got me on a journey of
reading.

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I think I read literally up to
15 books on what masculinity was

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I, I was, I was doing coaching
and therapy at the time.

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And then also I started working
in with rites of passage and I

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was already working with them in
social media and I had learnt a

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lot more about the making of the
man from from them.

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And all of these sort of came
together and I implemented this

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into my marriage and started a
men's group as well.

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Yeah.
All of these things were just

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this like perfect storm of all
of these things.

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And then eventually men started
asking me for help.

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And so I, I found myself like
giving help, you know?

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Before that ultimatum, did you
feel like you were a man?

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Were you that that did that
question, that ultimatum

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surprise you?
I.

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Think it did surprise me, but
the thing that surprised me the

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most is I had never actually
given thought to to I guess what

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a man was.
Maybe that's actually a literal

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lie.
I actually always thought I was

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a little bit more of an
effeminate man.

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I always thought that I had
like, because I was, you know, I

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was, I've always been very
touch, in touch with feelings,

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always been in very touch with
creativity, intuition growing

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up.
And, and I never actually

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touched the aspects of
masculinity.

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And I think a lot of that had to
do with the fact that I I was

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bullied at school.
So I didn't like men.

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You know, men kind of seemed
threatening to me specifically.

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But yeah, I mean, it, it it
didn't, it wasn't bad.

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I actually really love the fact
that I went through that

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journey, you know?
And and how did that

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relationship evolve after that?
Was was that a breaking point?

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Did you working yourself bring
some relief to the relationship

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itself?
100 percent, 100% and extra

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fact, like our relationship has
gone from strength to strength

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since then.
And I think the real thing about

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when a woman asks a man, I need
you to be more of a man is

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actually not really.
It's more to do with her wanting

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to be more of a woman and it has
nothing really to do with, you

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know, you're not having balls or
anything.

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It's really about wanting to not
feel like she has to hold so

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much.
And I think that's what's

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happened in our societies is
that women actually do have to

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hold quite a lot.
And they have to hold a lot in,

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you know, not only are they, are
they working, you know, full

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time often and they're looking
after households and, and

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they're like looking after the,
the, the, the emotional brain on

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where a relationship with dogs.
And So what I noticed with my

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wife was me stepping up to being
more of a man.

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It'd actually be equally
described as me stepping

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stepping up to be more of an
equal partner.

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No, I get that a lot.
So that's cool.

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I didn't realize that
relationship was still the one

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you're in, so that, that's
fantastic.

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How long did it take you to see
the gift in that ultimatum?

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To have these insights that wow,
that she wants to be more of

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herself, so I must be more of
myself.

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I took a while that's a gloss
for me to see it as a gift.

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That's the interesting words
there for me to act on it.

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I actually started acting on it
quite quickly.

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But for me to see it as gift
probably 2 years.

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And in actual fact, it was quite
a lonely two years.

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And this is the, the reasoning
for starting a men's group in

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the 1st place is, you know, I
think we, it's quite, it's quite

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a lonely thing to be
emasculated.

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The moment you get emasculated,
it's, it's pained, it's a lot of

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pain.
And it's the harshest thing to

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have from somebody you love, not
call you a man.

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And so it took me a while to see
it as a gift, you know, but I

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would say it's three years old
up.

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You talk a lot about the
difference between boy behaviour

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and man behaviour.
Could you kind of define both of

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those for me?
Yeah, 100%.

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So boy behaviour and man
behaviour was some actually some

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a really beautiful model by
Doctor Anda Rubenstein in his

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book The Making of Men.
And he's actually a mentor of

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mine.
So I ended up doing the social

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media for, for the rites of
passage Institute for for years.

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And I would, I would edit their
videos.

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He would literally be on stages
and talk about it and he'd have

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this model of 1 to 1.
And and so interestingly, in my

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journey, when I was like, what
makes a man along it?

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I stopped and, and I, I was like
watching a video and it's

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literally in front of my face.
This is a boy and this is a man.

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So I'll share exactly what that
model was.

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But it was, it was just funny.
Like that was the ironic thing.

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It was like, I'm here looking
for all these answers outside

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and then it's literally my job
to edit somebody's video for who

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actually gives you exactly what
a man is.

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And so the first thing is
talking about boy behaviours.

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So if we talk about boy
behaviours, this is uninitiated

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men.
So boys, a boy is a centre like

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wants to be the centre of
attention, wants to be the

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centre of the universe, wants to
be like, look at me, look at me.

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It's like even when you go to
the toilet, it's like, oh, look

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at the big poo.
I did you know, or you know

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anything, Just look at me, look
at me centre of the universe.

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A boy does not take
responsibility for their

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actions.
So when something goes wrong,

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like almost a boy would, even if
they're playing baseball out in

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the backyard and they hit a ball
and it hits the glass in in in a

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house and breaks the glass, A
boy would be like they would

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almost even blame the ball, the
shape of the ball as the thing

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that broke the glass.
Not then, right?

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Doesn't take responsibility.
The next thing is has no

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emotional control.
Boys don't aren't able to

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emotionally control themselves
and the boy in the end just

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wants a mother, doesn't want a
healthy relationship with the

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feminine.
Now that all of that is fine in

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an 8 to 10 year old, but if we
start having, you know, men that

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want to be the centre of the
universe, the centre of

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attention, cannot take
responsibility, you know, cannot

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rule their emotions and want to
be with a mother, then we start

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living in a world that's from
boys rather than men.

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And so how we shift that instead
of wanting centre to be the

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centre of attention is wanting
power, wanting attention, but

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using that for the community,
using that for, for service.

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That's, that's the, the healthy
male version from the boy to

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that.
Then we're talking about

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responsibility.
It's taking responsibility for

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when you do things wrong.
It's not to be capitulating and

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going, oh, I'm so sorry and
begging their way through it.

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But to be really strong, strong
enough to go, yeah, I, I screwed

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that up.
That's on me and fix it, you

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know, like that's that's the the
that's a really clear transition

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from boy to man.
Then holding emotions.

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So it's not about and this is
great for your podcast here is

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it's not about not being
vulnerable, but it's about being

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controlling of emotions.
Men do not need to throw

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tantrums.
It's you know, if something's

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wrong, it's not you can't share
it and you you can't be

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vulnerable about it.
But we cannot punish somebody in

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the street.
We cannot get to anger to the

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point where it's like I cannot
control this and I need to burst

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it out.
That's boy behaviour and when we

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have boy behaviour in strong men
bodies, it's dangerous.

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So again, controlling emotion
needs to happen.

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That clarification important
because I meet lots of guys who

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hear messages like this and
think controlling their emotions

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means shutting them all down,
denying them all, not feeling

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them.
No, it's just being more in

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control of how and when they're
expressed.

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Exactly.
So it's not losing the

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vulnerability.
You want to be as vulnerable as

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possible, but control the
emotion so that it doesn't

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control you because you need to
like feel the feel the emotion,

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but don't be led by the emotion.
That's where that it comes from.

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And if you find yourself
literally not being able to do

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anything other than what the
emotion is.

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So if you're in sadness and that
sadness leads you to the

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ultimate point of where sadness
leads you, that's just, that's

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not holding the emotion because
there was no space given to it

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earlier.
You know, it's that's no

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controlling of it.
It's not even giving it space.

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That's where shutdown comes.
I'm really resonating with the

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responsibility.
So for years I shunned

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responsibility because I thought
that meant blame.

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So it wasn't until I realized I
can't change anything in my life

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unless I take responsibility for
it.

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I think that's a big key.
So it's not about whose fault is

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it, it's about who can change
it.

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Yeah, I think The thing is, and
that's one thing we always

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forget is, and you see this in
boy behaviour a lot, it's like

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blame.
It's not fair.

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It's not fair that I that, that
somebody else is telling me

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this.
It's not fair.

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And it's like, well, if we
understand that the sooner we

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take responsibility even for
things that are not ours, the

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sooner we can change it because
we can.

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If we take responsibility even
for something that's not ours,

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we even take responsibility.
We take responsibility of how we

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react to it and it puts you in
control.

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If you do not take
responsibility, you do not have

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any control over your life.
We turn into victims.

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You know, this person did that
thing to me.

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So even that it's like the most
horrible thing can happen to

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you.
But if you go into that, it

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starts going victim and you you
put yourself in no sense of

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being somebody that can actually
have control of your own life.

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And for it to live a happy life,
we need to take more of control.

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And so then the final thing
about the boy to man model is

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wanting a relationship with the
feminine, not a mother.

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And so you often will tell, like
boy behaviour is, you know,

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being scared of a woman's
period, being scared of like,

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thinking it's disgusting, not
understanding the chaos of what

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a woman is and having to run
away from it at every point.

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You know, to be able to
genuinely sit in the fire of

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what a woman is and still love
her anyway and all of that.

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That is that is where the the
you know, that's the the

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transition.
It's not just wanting to have

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nurturing from your mother and
make sure you're soon done all

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of this.
It's having a a new conscious

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relationship in whatever form
that is.

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Now that doesn't have to be only
women.

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It can be a conscious
relationship with men.

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It's it's not about a man is is
in sexuality, but it's more not

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taking the unconscious of the
parent wounds through to a new

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relationship and actually
consciously getting away from

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the parents.
And that's the thing.

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So obviously in the in the it's
not as as inclusive in that old

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man only when we only talk
mother wound, but it happens

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with father wound too, whenever
we make conscious decisions,

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rather unconscious decisions
within our new relationships.

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And so that's the whole model.
Are there some men that grew up

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in such a healthy environment
they don't have a father wound

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or a mother wound?
Probably not.

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I mean, probably.
Well.

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Actually, no, I, I take that
back.

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Actually, I take that back.
It's to those points.

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There is always things to deal
with with your parents.

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There are always going to be
things to deal with, but whether

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they become a wound or not is
actually the interesting thing

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here.
So even when you, when you have

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the most loving parents and you
have parents that because I, I'm

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very consciously thinking about
this myself, because we're

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thinking of becoming parents
ourselves truer in me.

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And I haven't tested this yet,
you know, so I haven't got kids

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yet.
So I can't tell you

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definitively.
But my theory is this.

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The best we can do is to raise a
child to, to understand that

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they can be exactly who they
need to be and who they are and

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that the blueprint of themselves
is within.

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And that even if they had to
leave the family and go, that

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that would be OK as long as they
were listening to themselves.

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And if you could actually get to
that point and actually not hurt

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them and actually allow them
space for who they are and, and

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gross in all of this way it is.
And then also naturally go

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through the right of passage
processes, like the mother being

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the main caregiver for a boy
until like 1214.

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But then the boy spends quite a
bit of time with the father and

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understands his father, but then
also has male mentors and then

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goes through a rite of passage
and goes on his way.

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It is entirely plausible that
that child would get to all of

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that and don't have a wound.
And then they would just have to

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deal with the fact that they're
different from their parents and

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maybe they would have a little
bit of competition with their

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father and maybe they would have
a little bit of another.

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I got a little bit clingy, but
I'm actually good, you know, and

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I can let that go.
And they have to deal with

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attachments and detachments and
things like that.

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So it doesn't have to be a
wound, but we live in a world

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where I would say 95% of 95% is
Williams because they they're

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not treated at the time, they're
treated much later.

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And that's the problem.
They're not treated at the time.

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So no, you you already mentioned
initiation.

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So why?
Why are rites of passage and

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initiation so important for men?
Well, it's important for

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00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:06,200
everyone, but specifically for
men is is because we all want to

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belong in somewhere, right?
So in after a fact, most of our

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behaviour comes from wanting to
belong.

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The unfortunate thing is that if
we want to belong somewhere, if

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we don't have the right of
passage or initiation, then we

295
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,480
need to actually break down what
a right of passage or an

296
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,520
initiation is, especially in a
modern sense.

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00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,720
In a past sense, you know, we
just look at it like 50 kids go

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out into the wilderness with
unfold men and then they they go

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and kill a lion.
OK, so that that, you know,

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could be part of what rite of
passage is.

301
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,160
But there are four key stages of
a rite of passage.

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A rite of passages, sharing
stories.

303
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,640
You share stories with elders
and elders sharing stories to

304
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,160
young people allows them the
elders to give wisdom and it

305
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,080
allows the young people to get
to also to get the wisdom and it

306
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,040
gives the elders some purpose.
So it's actually a rite of

307
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,240
passage for both elder and young
people, right?

308
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,080
It's this beautiful thing and so
they, the young people get the

309
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,160
stories and they get informed by
that.

310
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,880
That's fantastic.
The second part of a rite of

311
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,440
passage is the challenge and
this is answers your question.

312
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It's important for men
specifically as a challenge

313
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,040
because we're geared towards
challenge.

314
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,320
Men like grow through challenge.
They get their sense of

315
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,800
self-confidence through
challenge.

316
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000
They get their sense of
community through challenge.

317
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,400
Challenge is the thing that like
builds them up.

318
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,160
The third aspect of our rite of
passage is honouring and my

319
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,600
mentor in, in, in Doctor Anna
Rubenstein through this, you

320
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,600
know he, he has taken 400,000
young boys and their fathers

321
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,480
into the Australian woods to do
these rite of passage camps.

322
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,960
And the ordering bit is where
they would set up a chair and

323
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,160
the boy would go and sit in the
chair after the five days and

324
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,480
every single man and boy would
say what is great about that

325
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,520
young boy?
Where, where do they see his

326
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,040
brilliance?
Where do they see his talents?

327
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,680
Because there's this belief that
every single one of us have

328
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,200
gifts and talents.
And if you see this, then it's

329
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,440
it's your responsibility to
bring your own gifts and talents

330
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,359
to the community.
And it's the community's

331
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,760
responsibility to help you see
your own gifts and talents.

332
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,240
And that's the self-serving
thing of the community and and

333
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,880
the self.
And so in a rite of passage, you

334
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,640
have this honouring moment where
somebody actually, maybe for the

335
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,599
first time in their life, they
feel like they actually have

336
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,440
worse.
They have worse.

337
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:31,240
And in the final bit, the final
aspect, the 4th aspect of a rite

338
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,640
of passage is creating a healthy
vision for the future.

339
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,520
And healthy vision for the
future means that we actually

340
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,680
succeed.
Studies have shown that, you

341
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,880
know, you're 70% more likely to
even achieve something just by

342
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,760
writing it down, you know, And
so when we talk about why is it

343
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,040
essential for people to have a
rite of passage, well, this was

344
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,040
this was actually a practice
that most humanity had and we no

345
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,960
longer have.
And if you look at all of those

346
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,640
things, most of our issues in
life would be solved by just

347
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,160
having those four things within
a five day period.

348
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,120
And so that's why rites of
passenger really important,

349
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,040
really important.
There's one of the, I had, I had

350
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:18,720
a magical year of 2016 in which
I was initiated with the Mankind

351
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,600
Project, initiated purely from
boyhood to manhood.

352
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,040
And I was initiated into the
Modern Mystery School that same

353
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,640
year.
And there are two things I

354
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,960
recommend to everybody.
But I didn't realize they were

355
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,480
missing and until I had them.
So I, I love these 4 breakdowns

356
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,600
of, of what really makes up a
rite of passage because I do,

357
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,520
you know, I do hear it a lot.
But what's the biggest sign that

358
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:45,560
you see in men today that they
have not had any sort of

359
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,440
initiation?
What's What's the behavior?

360
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,560
A boy like behavior, Yeah.
Boiler behaviour so.

361
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,720
So if you, yeah, if you find
yourself not being able to

362
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,080
emotionally connect, wanting
responsibility, like wanting

363
00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,240
power or emotional shutdown or
separation from task.

364
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,000
So one thing that I see in in
the space where I work, like I

365
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,480
work in the marriage space at
the moment.

366
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:10,000
So my space is truly in helping
men become better husbands.

367
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,640
And that's why like the retreat
that I'm the right of passage

368
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,480
retreat I'm running next year is
all about helping husbands be

369
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,400
initiated into their husband
because we we get this like you

370
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,280
think you're initiated by just
signing a piece of paper, but

371
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,080
you have no idea what that
actually means.

372
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,280
What did you actually take that
on?

373
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,960
And so I think the biggest
symbol sign that you see in men

374
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,560
today is not understanding the
task.

375
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,600
When you are married, you signed
on to the task of teamwork

376
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,400
community.
That's your community, that's

377
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,240
your center right.
And if you start seeing like a

378
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,600
man looking at his wife as the
enemy, if you start seeing a man

379
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,360
look at the community as an
enemy, if you start seeing a man

380
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,840
look at yeah, like things as
enemies, he's completely

381
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,720
separate from community.
And this was the other thing I

382
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,080
didn't mention earlier.
I spoke about communities

383
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,160
earlier.
We want community.

384
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,320
And then I talked about the four
stages of a rite of passage.

385
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,600
And what I missed was if we
don't find alpha community like

386
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,680
this.
In a rite of passage and you

387
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,360
know, you get the elders and you
get the sense of belonging to

388
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,400
your family.
If you don't find that, you will

389
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,040
find unhealthy community because
we as humans need community.

390
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,640
And so if you don't find a
healthy community, you will find

391
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,720
an unhealthy community.
And that is the problem with not

392
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,160
having it.
And so that even comes here to

393
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,080
this.
If you start seeing men in

394
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,200
unhealthy communities, it just
means they've not been

395
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,120
initiated.
Really a healthy community.

396
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,760
No, that makes a lot of sense.
Alessandra, what inspired you to

397
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:47,360
create your podcast STFUAL?
Come on Andy, say it, say it

398
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:48,960
properly, shut the fuck up and
listen.

399
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,880
Well, initially it was this
whole idea of helping men

400
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,200
eradicate boy like behaviour and
move to to healthy adult

401
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,360
behaviour.
And I believe it is that.

402
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,880
But upon, you know, 20 episodes
in and I think as things sort

403
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,400
of, I realized that my whole
purpose on this earth and my

404
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,920
wife is the same.
We share the same purpose.

405
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,760
I want to bring people into love
and unity.

406
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:24,280
I truly believe that we have
forces within our society that

407
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,320
separate U.S. forces within our
society that that it it's very

408
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,640
beneficial for society to have
us not be within love, not be

409
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,560
within connection, not be not be
within unity of community and

410
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:41,400
with your partner.
And if I can make men

411
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,600
specifically, that's who I'm
targeting because that's who I

412
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,160
am and that's who I know.
And I know my journey and I just

413
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,960
speak to the men that are along
the same journey as me, if I can

414
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,120
help them be their partner in a
different lighting and more

415
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:57,520
loving light as a teammate and
if I can help more loving

416
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,440
community, that's what I do.
So everything I do when there's

417
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:06,600
the podcast, my coaching treats,
the the Instagram stuff, my

418
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,320
emails, all of it just follows
that.

419
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,320
I just want to make more love
and community in this world.

420
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:17,120
Is there a specific tool, book,
or practice that had the most

421
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:21,400
impact on your journey?
I wouldn't say a specific, but I

422
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,440
would say a result which you can
get from many different ways and

423
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,720
you have to find the right way
for you.

424
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,320
The number one way that you are
ever going to move forward

425
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,000
within this is to understand and
know yourself.

426
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,120
And so whatever that tool is, so
a lot of people say OK, the best

427
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:43,720
tool to know yourself is
meditation.

428
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,840
But that has that very high buy
in because people would rather

429
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,960
people would rather take a
Valium than than meditate,

430
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,680
right.
So meditation has a very high

431
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,000
buy in.
So it's difficult for people to

432
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,600
do that.
Breath work is a really

433
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,960
beautiful way to not start
knowing and understanding

434
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:01,880
yourself.
But again, pretty high buy in

435
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,320
because you have to listen to
some weird half spiritual dude,

436
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,160
you know, telling you to breathe
in through your belly.

437
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,240
I don't like to do that.
It sounds a bit woo woo, little

438
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,920
bit gay for me.
That's what most men would say.

439
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:19,920
And and so again, high buy in,
what I really like is, I mean,

440
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,880
my favorite is like, I really do
like psilocybin mushroom trips

441
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,920
sometimes.
Like I do think that they really

442
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,120
get there.
But again, very high buy in

443
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:29,800
because then you've got whole
ideas on, you know, whether

444
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,160
illegal or not and, and the
whole world of this.

445
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,120
But I think that for a man who's
really wanting to have the

446
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:39,840
lowest buy in, I would try
something on a stream of

447
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,800
consciousness writing.
So get yourself an A four piece

448
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,120
of paper.
I literally do this with every

449
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,920
one of my coaching clients.
And the first homework I get

450
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,720
them to do is buy an exercise
book, the the shittiest exercise

451
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,720
book you can something like 90
cent one for, for, you know,

452
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,640
school.
And every morning you have

453
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,440
forced it's it's Saturday with
Julia Cameron's the morning

454
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,600
pages.
She has this in the hardest way,

455
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,800
but I think it's beautiful for
men to do because what you have

456
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,720
to do is you have to fill 3
pages and those 3 pages have to

457
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,800
be a force and has to be
handwritten.

458
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,320
And this is great for men who
say, Oh well, I don't know what

459
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,280
to write, perfect.
You just write.

460
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,760
I don't know what to write, I
don't know what to write.

461
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,000
And you keep writing it.
It's the screen of consciousness

462
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,720
until you reach the end of three
pages.

463
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,880
But the interesting thing is the
ego will tell you this is a

464
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,800
terrible activity.
I hate this.

465
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,720
Screw this.
You know, man, on a podcast who

466
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,080
told me you have to do this,
This is fucking awful, blah,

467
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,600
blah, blah.
It'll remind that for one page,

468
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,120
the second page, you'll start
writing your To Do List for the

469
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,680
day.
And then the third page, if you

470
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,280
turn your car.
I'm upset right now because I've

471
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,800
never been home and all of a
sudden, oh, there's me, there's

472
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,360
me.
So yeah, all these other methods

473
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,440
that have very high buy in, I
think they're brilliant.

474
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,440
And if you want to jump into the
meditation breathword mushrooms,

475
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,280
you know, the cow ceremonies,
whatever, they're very good.

476
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,000
But if you want the lowest buy
in, go into journaling Stream of

477
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,800
Consciousness Friday.
So I really, I can't be sure

478
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,040
which came first, but I met it.
I took on meditation and

479
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,200
journaling about the same time.
But yeah, I, I always advise

480
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,400
people to, to journaling
exercises, meditation.

481
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,400
And you know, meditation can be
as simple as, you know, shut

482
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,720
your eyes and take 3 deep
breaths.

483
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,720
It doesn't mean crush your legs.
Go sit in a mountaintop for an

484
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,680
hour and a half like it, it, you
know, we, we cannot speak for

485
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,880
myself, I put all these woo woo
gay practices way up and

486
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:43,320
impossible to reach until I was
sick of being in so much pain

487
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,000
that I wanted to die, that I was
willing to be wrong about

488
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,360
everything I thought and try
something.

489
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,680
And I found when I tried things
that were perhaps too woo woo or

490
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,360
too weird or out there, I got
results.

491
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:56,720
And that's glad you said it was
key earlier.

492
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,880
The the results are are what are
what everyone needs.

493
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,640
Well, I think on my podcast, you
said something beautiful.

494
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,200
Do you want to be sad or do you
want to be happy?

495
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,400
And in the end, it's like
there's a certain point where,

496
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,160
yeah, you do just buy in.
Like I think you, I think you

497
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,680
have to be called to attune your
method.

498
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,840
Like there's a certain, there's
a certain mystery to life, which

499
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,560
I love.
There's a certain magic to life

500
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:29,560
where you might say I'm ready,
I'm open, but I don't know how.

501
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,120
Life has a wonderful way of
within seven days, it'll show

502
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:38,000
you the path forward.
Ask and it is given.

503
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,720
It'll show you like all of a
sudden someone will be like,

504
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:44,720
have you ever tried like breath
work?

505
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,000
There's a thing on tomorrow
night.

506
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,960
Do you want to come with me?
And you'll be like, well, like I

507
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,600
just asked for something like,
that's weird.

508
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,640
It's that sort of thing.
There's the synchronicities in

509
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,080
this energy of the way that life
works, which I think is we

510
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,880
cannot understate that.
Oh, like yeah, that's the the

511
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,480
core of it.
Going back to Elder wisdom, if

512
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,440
you could talk directly to your
younger self, what would you

513
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:11,440
tell that young man?
I.

514
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,520
Don't think I would tell him
anything.

515
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:23,560
You'll probably miss him.
And always just gently prompt

516
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,360
him to go deeper.
Gently prompt him to go deeper.

517
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,600
Like what I see is if I had a
younger version of me, it would

518
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,040
be, why do you think that way?
Is that your thought or is that

519
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,440
somebody else's thought?
I'm not going to tell them it's

520
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,600
his somebody else's thought or
not.

521
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,640
But just we all know the answers
underneath.

522
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,960
We all know the answers.
And I think if we all could act

523
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,400
in an elder way and actually
just listen to youth and then

524
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,920
prompt to go deeper.
And if you know the answer, you

525
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,600
don't have to tell the answer,
you just have to guide.

526
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:00,960
Because they will find it
themselves.

527
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,200
And the moment they find it
themselves, them like it would

528
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,880
be more powerful than anything
else you could ever have said.

529
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,840
What is one thing you wish more
men knew?

530
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,880
That they can talk to other men
and they know the Lord.

531
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,640
That whatever pain they feel
that they hold, and all of this

532
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,480
being that they are holding is
held by other men too.

533
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,960
And it'd be so much lighter if
they just did.

534
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,480
Alessandra, what's the best way
for people to connect with you?

535
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,800
Learn learn more about
everything that you offer.

536
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,080
Instagram Alessandra under score
for Sally.

537
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,920
And I've got everything through
there that's that's the best.

538
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,800
And I throw all of myself into
that Instagram accounts, yeah.

539
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,400
Awesome and it is a good one
it's not often I'm impressed by

540
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,760
someone's layout on Instagram
and on it, but yeah, you're you

541
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,800
do have a great presence there
and you've got a ton of

542
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,520
followers so.
It's been.

543
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,320
Congratulations on that reach
and impact.

544
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,320
Yeah.
I mean, it's a it's an important

545
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,080
mission.
And I think now's the time in

546
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,440
the world where the world is
starting to connect with that

547
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,960
mission.
And therefore it's that's why

548
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,560
it's working.
Huge thanks and appreciation to

549
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,960
Alessandro Pasali for bringing
the fire today, sharing his path

550
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,400
from collapse to true manhood.
If anything in this conversation

551
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,680
resonated with you, don't keep
it to yourself.

552
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,960
Share it, talk about it.
More importantly, take action.

553
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,200
If you're craving a space where
you can speak your truth, be

554
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,200
seen, and keep evolving, come
join the authentic AF community

555
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,000
at realmanfield.org/group.
And it's where the real

556
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,560
conversations continue.
Until next time, be good to

557
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:40,960
yourself.