Midlife Awakening: Finding Fulfillment After 50

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I spent 10 years helping to
build a small company, you know,

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I really giving it my heart and
soul, you know, missed birthdays

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and funerals and things, you
know, really gave it a pound of

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flesh and, and towards the end,
it just didn't really work out.

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You know, I didn't feel valued.
And then I kind of knew what I

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didn't want to do and that was
it.

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But I didn't know what I did
want to do.

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So that was one of the problems
that I had.

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I was trying to work out what
what can I do?

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And I tried to look around to
see what else I was out there,

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what kind of resources were out
there to kind of, I guess

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provide some guidance.
And I couldn't really find

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anything at all.
And I realised that your

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identity is so wrapped up in
what you do for a living.

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You know, if you introduce
yourself, you say, hi, I'm a,

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you know, I'm a lawyer or a, you
know, I whatever, I drive a bus.

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But it's kind of your identity,
isn't it?

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So if you don't know what you
do, you kind of feel a bit lost.

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That's how I felt.
But I think now looking back, it

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was a reaction to not being
happy, not feeling fulfilled.

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
feel where we have conversations

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that most men are not having,
but that all men can benefit

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from.
I'm your host, Andy Grant.

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Today I'm joined by Philip
Briscoe, host of the Midlife Men

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podcast, joining us from the UK.
Philips work centers around

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something many men quietly
experience but rarely talk about

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out loud.
That moment in midlife when you

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stop and ask, who am I?
When he at 50, that question

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became unavoidable.
He's spoken openly about feeling

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like a bit of a fraud at times,
struggling with comparison and

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carrying that consistent feeling
of failure that many men know

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too well.
And instead of hiding from that,

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he built a platform around it.
Through his Midlife Men podcast

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and now a book born from those
conversations, Philip is

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creating space for men to speak
honestly about identity,

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purpose, mental health, and what
it really means to live well in

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the second-half of life.
This is a potent conversation

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around midlife awakening,
depression, masculinity, and

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what fulfillment actually looks
and feels like when you stop

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pretending you've got it all
figured out.

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Let's do it.
Hello Philip, and welcome to

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Real Men Feel.
Thanks, Andy.

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Great to be here.
Awesome.

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You, you mentioned when we first
spoke that when you hit fifty,

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it was a real turning point for
you.

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And that's when you kind of
started asking, you know, who am

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I?
Was there one particular moment

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that life just hit you?
Or was it of steps of many small

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steps?
How?

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How did that?
Unfold.

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I think it's maybe a kind of
slow realisation.

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You know, life doesn't need to
be the same.

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You know, you don't dance to the
same beat your whole life.

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And I guess, you know, I was, I
was in a job where I spent 10

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years helping to build a small
company.

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You know, I really giving it my
heart and soul, you know, missed

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birthdays and funerals and
things, you know, really gave it

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a pound of flesh and, and
towards the end, it just didn't

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really work out.
You know, I didn't feel valued.

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And then I kind of knew what I
didn't want to do and that was

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it.
But I didn't know what I did

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want to do.
So that was one of the problems

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that I had.
And I was trying to work out

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what, what can I do?
I don't want, I don't want to

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do, you know, remain in tech.
And I tried to look around to

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see what else was out there,
what kind of resources were out

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there to kind of, I guess,
provide some guidance.

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And I couldn't really find
anything at all.

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And I realised that your
identity is so wrapped up in

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what you do for a living, You
know, if you introduce yourself,

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you say, hi, I'm a, you know,
I'm a lawyer or a, you know, I

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whatever, I drive a bus.
But it's kind of your identity,

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isn't it?
So if you don't know what you

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do, you kind of feel a bit lost.
That's how I felt So, and

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looking back, I realised that my
health had really suffered

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because I'd given it so much.
And in fact, just before 50, I

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got a a diabetes type 2
diagnosis, high blood pressure,

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I was very overweight, I had a
fatty liver.

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And I think that was all that
was all lifestyle.

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But I think now looking back, it
was a reaction to not being

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happy, not feeling fulfilled.
You know, I was drinking too

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much, eating the wrong food.
I wasn't really exercising.

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So yeah, I've got to around 50
and, and just thought, do you

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know what?
This this can't be it and this

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isn't what I want and decided to
to do something about it.

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What helped you most in doing
something about it?

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That's a good question actually.
And it's not there's no easy

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answer.
You know, I'd love to give you

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an easy answer.
It does take time and you'd have

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to, you know, you've got to take
time and invest in yourself to

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work out what it is you enjoy,
what makes you feel fulfilled.

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And that's, you know, that's,
that's not always as easy.

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You know, maybe you've always
wanted to be, I don't know, a

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painter, you know, then perhaps
it's been, but I didn't really

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know.
And then I guess I started to

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think, well, if there's no, if
there's no information out

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there, why don't I start a
podcast, which is what I did.

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And I realised that I remember
back when I was kind of 19, I

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wanted to be a journalist and I
and I'd tried out for journalism

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school, but you know, I was, I
was a real head nest at 1819.

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I didn't do, you know, I didn't
do the work.

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I didn't get it.
And, and also, you know, I've

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always enjoyed kind of
broadcasting or presenting and,

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and, and so I kind of realised
that I should, I started the

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podcast, I really enjoyed it.
I realised that I enjoyed being

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a, a kind of voice for, for
other men telling their stories,

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which is what the podcast does.
It's interviewing midlife men,

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sharing their, their recovery
narratives, IE, you know, their,

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their own experiences, personal
experiences and sharing their

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way, you know, the way forward
they found with other men.

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And, and, and doing that, I've
certainly thought, I feel really

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this is far more fulfilling than
some of the stuff I've done and

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got paid for.
And, and alongside that, I'm

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sorry, I know this is a very
long answer to your question.

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Alongside that, I started my own
consulting business.

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So I thought I've got years of
experience.

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Surely I can, you know, make
some, make generate income from

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this.
And that meant I could work with

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people I really liked, companies
that really liked, do stuff I

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really liked.
So, and it took me a year or so.

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I remember someone saying to me,
it'll take you 2 years to get

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sort yourself out.
And I remember thinking, I can't

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wait that long.
You know, I need it now.

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I'll give it a month.
And, you know, they were kind of

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right one to two years before
you really get a New Balance, a

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new kind of, you know, new flow.
And I guess I've been lucky in

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that, you know, I had this
consulting business which pays

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the bills, but I get to do my
passion, which is, which is the

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podcasting.
I've written a book, which I've

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always wanted to do.
I write fiction based on kind of

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men's mental health, no
surprise.

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And I've even done, you know,
stage shows taken, taken the

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podcast on on a kind of tour.
So, you know, I, I feel lucky in

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that I've kind of fulfilled a
lot of my ambition and I feel,

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you know, a lot happier than I
did before.

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So during your 40s, when you
were really focused on sounds

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like almost nothing except your
career in building a business,

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was joy or fulfillment part of
your thought process?

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Was it there or you just ignored
that?

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You know, looking back, I don't
think it was, you know, I, I

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mean, I had AI had a family.
So my kids were, you know, my

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first, my daughter was born when
I was 14.

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So, you know, I was quite, I was
a bit of an older dad, 3 kids.

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So that that's a very tense
experience.

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If I wasn't doing the dad, you
know, husband, family thing, I

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was working or, you know, we, me
and my wife would, you know,

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drain a bottle of wine between,
you know, the last kid going to

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bed and us going to bed.
And you know, so it was, it

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wasn't joyless because I got joy
from having a family.

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And you know, the work that I
did was interesting.

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You know, it wasn't
uninteresting.

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I travelled around the world and
I, it was kind of an interesting

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topic, but on reflection, I
wasn't, I didn't get that

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fulfilment that I feel now.
And maybe I didn't realise at

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the time, you know, maybe it's
only on reflection that

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sometimes you realize you
weren't experiencing the joy

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that you do now.
Yeah, especially, especially I

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find if I'm really busy, I I
can't notice a lack of joy,

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fulfillment.
But it's almost like when it

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when things slow down, like,
wait a minute, why have I been

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working this hard?
I I feel no reward from this

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yet.
Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.
And especially because I had all

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these physical, you know,
physical as a result of I think

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not being happy.
And I and I know I felt

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depressed and I was anxious and
I wasn't sleeping.

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And I and I actually developed
all these physical ailments as

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well, which, you know, I did
manage to reverse a lot of those

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once I stepped away from it.
But yeah, I mean, your body, you

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know, there's only so many
things your body can kind of try

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and wake at least so many alarms
your body can, can give you a

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wake up calls.
And you know, if you ignore them

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all, then, you know, you're
probably a bit foolish.

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You know, you listen to
yourself, but as you said, when

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you're when you're nose down,
you're just in it.

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It's quite difficult to do that,
isn't it?

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It's quite difficult to look up
and take yourself out of it.

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And you normally go on holiday
and you, you see things from

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afar and you're like, wow, I'm
away for a week or two weeks and

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and suddenly, yeah, why am I
doing this job?

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And I'll do this and I'll do
this.

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And then you go back and you go
straight into the routine.

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You forget all of that.
But you know you can't.

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And also, you can't live your
life just waiting for the next

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holiday or waiting for the
weekend or waiting to retire.

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I mean, that's surely that's
the, the worst thing you can do

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is just think, right?
I've got, you know, I'm 55 now.

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I've got say another 10/12/15
years left of work.

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I'll just ride it out because
when I retire, then I'll start

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living my best life.
I mean, that's, that's horrible.

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That's not.
Yeah, to delay joy, to delay

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happiness for like future when I
mean tomorrow's not guaranteed

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to anybody.
Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah.
Yeah, cool.

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So it sounds like you created
midlife men because you weren't

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finding resources that you
wanted.

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So the decision to make it
happen, was it more to fill that

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gap or was it more to to bring
fulfillment?

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Was it more to bring a fill a
gap within you perhaps?

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I think it was a bit of both.
It was a bit of both.

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I mean, I definitely saw that
there was a gap in the market,

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you know, and it's not a
commercial, I don't charge for

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it, commercial product, but I
saw that there was a lack of

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that sort of resource out there
specifically for, you know,

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mental health and midlife
doesn't just affect men.

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But I felt that there wasn't a
lot for, you know, for us, for

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that particular category.
And the more I did it, the more

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I realised that there were loads
of men out there who were

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suffering and they they thought
they were the only person, you

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know, not telling anyone,
thought they were alone and how

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they feel, etcetera.
And then there's all these

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amazing guys out there who, who,
who are willing to share really

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raw, honest experiences.
Very difficult for them to tell.

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I mean, sometimes it's
incredibly emotional and, and,

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you know, I felt honoured and
humbled to listen to it, but

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they're prepared to, to, to
share it.

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And, you know, the more I did
that, the more fulfilled I felt

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because I thought genuinely, you
know, I'm doing something here

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and more and more men listen to
it.

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I mean, when you do a podcast,
it's quite difficult to really

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gauge your interaction.
You can only really look at

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things like downloads, But you
know, they they were going up

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and up and up in countries
around the world.

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So there must it must be
fulfilling something.

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But, but also to answer your
question, it was definitely

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fulfilling something in me as
well.

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Absolutely.
You know, it was rounding me out

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and and it was kind of I just
found my way there blindly

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really, you know, it just came
out, you know, this repressed,

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you know, journalist,
storyteller, broadcaster,

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whatever.
It just, it just came out.

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You know, I couldn't repress it
anymore, you know, sub

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subconsciously, which which,
which again, is really for me,

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that's that's that's great
because I feel like perhaps I'm

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doing what I was meant to do.
It really resonate with all

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that.
Today we are recording this on

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00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,440
the 10th anniversary of the
first episode of Real Men Feel,

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00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,040
Which, well, isn't something I
could have imagined 10 years

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00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,480
ago.
Congratulations,

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00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,400
congratulations.
I feel honoured to to to be on

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00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,360
this, that's well, this, this, I
think this should be well, this

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00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,680
is pretty much to the to the to
the day three years since I

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started my it was end of Feb.
So great.

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00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:21,680
Yeah, brilliant. 10 years is is
is an amazing feat and shows

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00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:23,920
that there's there's there's a
lot to discuss still.

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00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,880
Yeah.
Has there been a most profound

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00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,920
lesson that you've gotten from
your own podcast?

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00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,120
Loads, absolutely loads.
Just, you know, every time I

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speak to a different guest, I, I
learn something else.

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00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,760
But there's also, you know, also
reiterates what I've already

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learned, which is great because
it, yeah, I mean, from the

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beginning, things like, you
know, you can't do this on your

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own.
You know, you, you need to, you

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need to open up to somebody.
You need the right person in the

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right environment, but you can't
solve these things yourself.

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I didn't have to be a therapist.
It could be a men's group.

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It could just be a friend, it
could be a stranger.

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So that was a really important
lesson.

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And I, you know, the, the book,
and this isn't a plug, but the

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00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,680
book I wrote based on the
podcast is called Men Speak Up,

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You know, just getting men to
talk and share with somebody.

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So that was a really good
lesson.

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And I guess for me, because, you
know, there are, there are

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00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,840
little bits, I don't know if you
found this, there are bits of me

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00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,360
in a lot of these stories and
I'll relate to some of it.

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I'm realizing myself that I'm
not alone in how I feel.

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And some of that's extreme, you
know, things like, you know, on

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00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,640
a serious note, things like
having suicidal tendencies on on

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00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,440
occasion.
I mean, it's a lot of people do

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and it's and it's kind of part
of I'm not, I'm not.

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Obviously it's a very serious
thing and it needs to be

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addressed and you should really
get get some help.

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But it's so taboo.
You know, nobody ever says that,

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you know, you would people don't
dare, dare admit, but actually a

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lot of people feel it.
And it doesn't mean necessarily

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00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,920
it's, you know, they don't
necessarily want to do

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00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,080
something, but but they just
don't want to be in the

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00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:06,960
situation they're in.
And that kind of seems a result.

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And you know, you so so that
that on one level, you know, and

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00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,000
we need to have more
conversations like that because

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the suicide rates are are not
going down.

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00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:22,080
But then on another level, just
feeling, you know, feelings of

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00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,280
failure because and so, so many
of us are putting on a very

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00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,800
brave face.
And I guess we're all at

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somewhere along that continuum
of I'm coming to terms with the

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00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,280
fact that I'm a human and
fallible and I don't have to be

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00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,960
perfect, you know, And there's
still a lot of guys out there

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00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,800
who who aren't, who are, who
aren't actually, you know, able

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00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,960
to or dare admit to themselves
that that, that there are

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00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,760
problems.
So I guess for me personally, it

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00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,920
was, yeah, I'm not alone.
A lot of people feel this way.

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00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,920
And it doesn't matter, you know,
of course it matters if you're,

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00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,880
if you're really feeling, you
know, so bad that you want to

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00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,880
end your life, of course that's
an incredibly serious thing and

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00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,920
needs to be addressed.
But but just normalizing that

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00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,240
conversation, you know, it's OK.
It's OK to feel depressed, you

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00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,120
know, because we all do.
You can't be happy all the time.

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00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,520
And if you are, you know you're
probably not being true to

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00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,320
yourself.
Philip, I know you've been

300
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,480
pretty open about your own
periods of some deep

301
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,160
depressions.
What's What's the first sign for

302
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,960
yourself that you're in one, and
how have you successfully

303
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:32,440
navigated through them?
Well, for me, it's, I know, I

304
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,640
know if I'm, you know, and it
can just happen, you know, it's

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00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,240
like, as I said, it's continuum,
kind of those internal voices,

306
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:44,480
circular voices, just not able
to get out of, of, of a kind of

307
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,520
rhythm of, of, of, of kind of
downward spiral really and

308
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,120
talking yourself down and
there's a little voice there

309
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,480
going actually, this is rubbish.
You know, you're not, you're not

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00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,040
a failure, you're not used to,
but it's got losing the battle

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00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,280
to have that equilibrium.
That's, that's one of the signs,

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00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,240
I think, and just feeling like a
bit withdrawn, not really what,

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00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:04,840
you know, not funny joy and
things.

314
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,560
And, you know, talking to all
the people that have done.

315
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,160
I know that's, they're fairly
common characteristics, right?

316
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,840
It's pretty normal to feel that
and it is difficult to get out

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00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,360
of it actually.
I mean, you, you, you know,

318
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,840
there is no, I'd love to say
that, you know, there's a silver

319
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,720
bullet or a kind of magic
solution.

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00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,880
I mean, there isn't, but I find
that, you know, I can come out

321
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,400
of it as quickly as I've gone
into it.

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00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,440
And you, you do have to look for
the joy in things.

323
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,720
But I know that's difficult to
say because if you are in a very

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00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,880
dark moment, you know, your
brains not not telling you that.

325
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:46,200
I think I, I've, I've, you know,
I've got a few close, you know,

326
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,160
buddies who I talk to and we
kind of talk to each other and

327
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,920
help each other.
So a friend of mine, we, we go

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00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,880
walking like we walked the whole
length of, of the Thames, which

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00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,600
is big river in the UK, not, not
at once in bits.

330
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,040
And it's just, you know, kind of
seven hours of just talking

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00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,440
about stuff And it doesn't
matter what it is, but being in

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00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,400
a, an open environment, you
know, there's no shame or guilt

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00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,440
or embarrassment.
And I think that's really

334
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,160
important.
And going back to what I was

335
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,079
saying earlier, you know, if you
can find someone or some, some

336
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,599
people to, to share this with.
And I, I've spoken to loads of,

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00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,960
you know, guys representing
organisations, men's groups,

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00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,240
walking groups, boxing groups,
fitness groups, doesn't have to

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00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,520
be exercise related.
You know, it could just be a

340
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,680
kind of interest group.
But I think that for me, that's,

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00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,880
that's helped me on the straight
and narrow.

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00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,720
And my, my good buddies from
diversity, you know, we've known

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00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,640
each other for, you know, 30
years now.

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00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,160
You know, we meet up fairly
regularly and we didn't really

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00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,760
used to talk about anything
meaningful.

346
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,640
You know, it's just always, you
know, go to a pub, have a few

347
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,520
beers and just all the banter
and everything.

348
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,480
And then increasingly, and I
like to think this is my

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00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,320
influence.
You know, we do talk about real

350
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,640
things and we share real things.
And, and I think it, it's

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00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,960
brought a lot, it's brought a
depth, I think, to our

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00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,600
friendship.
And I think it's brought just

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00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,080
just to kind of, you know, when
we meet up, we know that there's

354
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,080
a safe space to share how we're
feeling.

355
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,280
It's not going to go any
further.

356
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,160
And it's, it's definitely kind
of your own support network.

357
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,040
So, you know, you do have no
one's going to hand this to you

358
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,600
on a plate, but, but these
either there are groups out

359
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,440
there you can go and approach or
just, you know, find, find

360
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,560
somebody or find some people
that you, you can bond with and,

361
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,000
and just, you know, share your,
your concerns, your, your

362
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,080
worries, your pains, because
they're probably experiencing it

363
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,360
as well.
Yeah, you can.

364
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,320
No one will OfferUp the plate,
but you can ask for someone to

365
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,480
share the plate, right?
Yeah, yeah.

366
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,600
Very well, yeah.
So you mentioned your your book

367
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,760
Men Speak Up is based on the
podcast.

368
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,640
I wonder how emotionally was
writing the book compared to

369
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,040
having the conversations?
Was was there a difference?

370
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,040
There was yes, might not be the
answer you want.

371
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,480
So actually doing the podcast.
So I always interview, you know,

372
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,680
I talk to my guests before I
interview them and then we do

373
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,800
the interview and often they're,
they're quite, you know, raw

374
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,720
and, and emotional for, for, for
me and, and especially for, for

375
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,680
my guests.
And that's I talked about this

376
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,000
kind of privilege of that, but
that audio, you know, they're

377
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,280
audio files.
So then I had I took fourteen of

378
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,720
the of the stories of the
interviews and I then had to

379
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,280
create a written narrative, but
I wanted to keep my guests voice

380
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,840
and obviously their story.
But you have to, you know,

381
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,880
there's quite a lot of editing
work to do to take something

382
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,560
from audio to.
So by the time I'd done that and

383
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,680
been through various edit and,
and, and, you know, taken all

384
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,960
the emotion out of it, it was
kind of, you know, that was a

385
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,960
task and 1/2 I was really
pleased with the end result.

386
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,560
And I think the the written
formats of the original

387
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,160
interviews worked really well.
And I think they are distinct

388
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,080
and they've done justice to, to
the 14 got well, one, one lady

389
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,760
actually, but to the 13 guys and
two ladies, sorry, but I think I

390
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,440
think you did it justice.
But yeah, the reality is by the

391
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,320
time you've done your 15th edit,
you know, it's kind of you kind

392
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,560
of squeeze the emotion.
So is there a common thread

393
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,400
through those 14 stories?
Yeah.

394
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:18,760
I mean, it is about either the
people I interviewed talking to

395
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,680
other people in order to help
find their way forward or

396
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,840
wishing they had done.
I mean, there was a, there was

397
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,760
a, a couple whose son
unfortunately took his own life.

398
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,000
And they tell their story.
They tell it very honestly and

399
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,120
openly.
And, you know, and, and they

400
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,920
talk about their, they were
unable to connect and they

401
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,440
didn't know, you know, they
didn't know what was going on.

402
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,320
And they wish that they had done
so.

403
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,400
You know, it's a combination of
the two really.

404
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,600
But but that that runs through
it, you know, communication and

405
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,360
talking, talking to people and
and finding help that way.

406
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,160
Philip, I wonder what's the
biggest misconception that you

407
00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,520
find men have about midlife?
That's a good question.

408
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,840
I mean, this is but I should
just say I'm not a medical

409
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,600
practitioner or a therapist.
I'm just my experience is

410
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,640
through talking to men and, and,
and them sharing their stories.

411
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,400
I think, I think sometimes
people think it's, you know,

412
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,760
there's like cliche of the
midlife crisis.

413
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,560
You know, you kind of if you're
a guy, you know, you leave your

414
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,960
wife of 25 years and run off
with, you know, somebody much

415
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,760
younger and then you buy a
Harley Davidsons, you know, you

416
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,800
head off into the sunset.
I guess some people do that,

417
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,720
right.
But actually it's quite it's

418
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,000
quite serious.
I mean, actually, if you draw a

419
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,680
parallel with the menopause, I
mean, there's a thing called the

420
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,520
Android pause, which I've talked
to to men about, which is a kind

421
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,400
of deterioration of testosterone
in the male body, which can

422
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,280
cause not just physical issues,
but mental health issues.

423
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,680
But I interviewed, in fact, 1
chapter in the book is, is a

424
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,080
woman in the UK who talks about
her experience with the

425
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,720
menopause and how serious it can
be and how women are, you know,

426
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,080
feels suicidal and, and all of
those things.

427
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,080
And I think it's just, you know,
it's not, it's not funny,

428
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,440
actually, it's quite serious.
I mean, there are major hormonal

429
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,040
changes in both men and women.
And you can find yourself at the

430
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,760
point where you do feel
disillusioned and you feel

431
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,000
unfulfilled and you don't know
what to do next.

432
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,640
And if you, and if you don't
know what to do, you can start

433
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,800
to go down a really unfortunate
trajectory and, you know,

434
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,480
starting with just feeling
depressed.

435
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,120
But you know, who knows where
that ends.

436
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,080
So I guess, I guess, I guess to
answer your question, you know,

437
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,080
it's, it's easy to kind of
cliche it and think it's all

438
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,880
quite funny, but actually
there's, it's quite serious as

439
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,440
well.
And, and, and it's a stage in

440
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,240
life that everybody goes through
and you kind of need to be

441
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,000
prepared for it in a way.
And I don't think people

442
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,160
prepared for it.
They just kind of step into it

443
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,880
and suddenly you're 50, you're
like, well, how did that happen?

444
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,800
And you can kind of see, you
know, you probably the first

445
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,720
time you address your mortality,
right, Because you turn 50 and

446
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,320
over the hip, you can see over
the horizon.

447
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,720
You can see over the horizon to,
to, you know, your ultimate

448
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,400
destination.
So it can be quite scary.

449
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,320
And and you know, it's, it's,
it's, I do think it's something

450
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,640
you need to take seriously.
You find that kind of the cliche

451
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,360
version shows up in lives
because people are kind of

452
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,080
unaware, not asking deeper
questions about themselves, not

453
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,680
clear on on goals or their
future or or might it be

454
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,040
something else?
I, I think it's, I think it's

455
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,560
difficult to have a, a single
answer.

456
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,680
Actually, I think it depends.
Different people, you know, just

457
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,440
different things.
But I think I do think we have

458
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,000
phases in life and I think, you
know, we have an early phase,

459
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,200
you know, when you're you're
young, growing up and teenage,

460
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,760
and then you have that first
phase of, you know, your working

461
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,120
career, perhaps you have a
family, you know that and, and

462
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:48,200
you're working, you know,
similar to what we were saying

463
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,800
beginning here, you know,
you're, you're nose down, you're

464
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,480
really working.
You think, right, I'm going to,

465
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,600
I'm going to work really long
hours and it'll pay off and I'll

466
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,960
get promoted, I'll get a pay
rise, I'll get a bigger house, a

467
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,120
better car, you know, maybe I
put my kids in private school,

468
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:04,320
You know, that all these things
that you want.

469
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,080
And then I think you get to a
phase that starts in midlife.

470
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,640
It may start when you're 40 or
50 or 60 where where things that

471
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,720
you want change.
You know that that it's natural.

472
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:18,680
You know, I don't think you
should fight it.

473
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,640
It's natural to to have a
different phase when you get

474
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,120
older.
I mean, maybe your kids have

475
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,160
left home or maybe you start to,
you start to realise that your

476
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,040
body isn't going to last
forever.

477
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,280
You know, maybe it's just that,
you know, you, you, you can't

478
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,640
lose weight or, you know, you
just groan when you get out the,

479
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,080
the, the sofa or, you know, you
can't put yourself somewhere

480
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,840
all, all these things.
So all these kind of, and I

481
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,640
think it's natural to just start
to think about different things

482
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:45,760
and, and wanting different
things.

483
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,560
And maybe, you know, if you're
working in a especially in a

484
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,640
highly corporate environment,
you know, a lot of people start

485
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,760
to kind of disappear path age,
either because they're

486
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,320
disillusioned themselves or, you
know, there's only so many

487
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,280
people at the top of the tree.
Actually, there's a lot of

488
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,640
people behind you who've still
got a lot of experience.

489
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,600
And, and I do think ageism is
very prevalent actually today.

490
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,280
And, and I think it's talked
about, you know, if you want to

491
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,000
go and get a job in your 50s,
good, good luck.

492
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,760
If you're competing with people
who were like 35, they've still

493
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,360
got, you know, 15 years
experience.

494
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,400
It's, it's hard, it's tough.
So I think to answer your

495
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,440
question, you know, I think
it's, it's, it's just, I think

496
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,880
it's a natural rhythm really
that you start to get, you know,

497
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,120
get to a kind of midlife age and
you want different things.

498
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,760
And I think that can, that can
kind of manifest in different

499
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,120
ways, you know, either through
feeling unfulfilled or thinking,

500
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:40,880
right, I'm going to do what I've
always wanted to do.

501
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,800
Or maybe even, you know, as I
said, your, your health starts

502
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,080
to, to, to, to, to impact what
you're doing.

503
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,680
Or maybe you think, well, you
know what?

504
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,480
I'm drinking more than I've ever
drunk before and I can't stop.

505
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:54,880
Or, you know, I'm addicted to
whatever it might be.

506
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,280
Or, you know, I just, I'm just
quite angry.

507
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,360
I don't know what to do about
it.

508
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,800
We've talked a lot about
fulfillment and purpose.

509
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,160
Do you feel like you've gotten
to a place where you you have

510
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,320
it, or is it more of a, a, a
continuum of getting more and

511
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,000
more of it?
Yes, we're not, not a finished

512
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,120
job.
You know, it's still, it's still

513
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:19,320
ongoing.
I mean, it's a good, it's a

514
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,280
good.
I mean, for example, you know, I

515
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,520
mentioned I write fiction.
I mean, I was surprised myself

516
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,160
in the first book I wrote was a
non fiction book, which is of

517
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,640
the podcast.
But I write quite a bit of

518
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,800
fiction, a lot of flash fiction,
but but also I'm writing a novel

519
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,320
at the moment.
And so I really want to get that

520
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:37,880
done.
You know, I've been, I've been

521
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,240
sitting playing around for three
years with this novel and now I

522
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,360
just do it.
You know, if you can sit and

523
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,920
think about it and, and
everything I've done in the

524
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,400
last, you know, three or four
years, you can sit and think

525
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,640
about it and never do it, just
do it.

526
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,680
I like nothing better than
getting up at like when I wake

527
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,640
up at 5:00 AM anyway, because
I'm kind of this, I can't sleep

528
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,400
and I love getting up and the
house is quiet and I can just

529
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,160
write and I'm just, I'm doing
that now.

530
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,520
So, you know, and then I'll,
I'll publish that.

531
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,040
And even if I self publish it,
you know, it's difficult to get

532
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,400
published, but then it'll be
something else.

533
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,240
But I will feel more, I'll have
ticked more things on my on my

534
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,320
box.
So I don't think I'll ever be

535
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,160
100% fulfilled because it's
evolving as I go along.

536
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:23,640
But yeah, I'm definitely in a
very good place.

537
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,840
So, Philip, what's the best way
for people to connect with you?

538
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,880
Learn more about the the
podcast, the books, everything.

539
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,600
Pretty best go to so so the
podcast is on all the major

540
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,320
channels, you know, Apple
spotlight, etcetera, but it's

541
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,600
also got a, a website.
And so there's a there's a, a

542
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,960
form, an e-mail address on
there.

543
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,960
People can get hold of me there.
And that's mid hyphen

544
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,920
lifemen.com.
It's the website and it's got

545
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,880
all of the, the, I think there's
about 9090 episodes now and

546
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,760
there's kind of five more in the
hopper or, or on LinkedIn.

547
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,520
So if you just look at Philip
Briscoe, you'll find me on there

548
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,080
or, you know, any other channel.
I mean, I'd like to say that I'm

549
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,600
really prolific on lots of
different social media channels.

550
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,160
You know, there's an Instagram
channel of Facebook.

551
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,320
But to be honest, you know, I, I
have, I don't have that much

552
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,440
spare time and I find social
media can take up a lot of that.

553
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,040
But yes, I'm, I'm, I'm quite
easy to find, just put in

554
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,320
midlife man or, or my name.
I'd be very happy to talk to.

555
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,240
And similarly, if, if, if
somebody has a story they'd like

556
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,720
to share and they think, you
know, it would really benefit

557
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,880
other people.
And then I'm very happy to to

558
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,200
hear from them as well.
And finally, what is one thing

559
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,280
you wish more men knew?
What a question.

560
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,720
There are lots of things, this
is based on my own experience,

561
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,520
but on also also having spoken
to, you know, 100 men or so for

562
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,920
the for the podcast.
You need to be true to yourself.

563
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,200
You know, don't try and be
something you're not.

564
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,960
Don't There's no point masking
or pretending you're happy when

565
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,320
you're not, You know, don't even
if you've got, you know,

566
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,440
childhood trauma, you know,
perhaps that you've not dealt

567
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,120
with or or you know, you need
to, you need to get to a point

568
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,320
where you're already comfortable
with yourself, happy with

569
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,480
yourself.
And if it means going and seeing

570
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:22,120
a therapist for a bit or just
being absolutely, you know, real

571
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,040
with yourself about what you've
always wanted to do.

572
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,360
I mean, maybe you've not wanted
to be a, you know, an

573
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,800
accountant.
Well, just, I think as you said

574
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,840
earlier, Andy, you know, there's
a long time between, you know,

575
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,280
what you're doing now and when,
when you finish up, you know,

576
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,240
so, you know, make sure you you
spend that time wisely and enjoy

577
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,680
what you're going to do.
Well, thanks for speaking up.

578
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,960
Leading by example, encouraging
other men to speak up and for

579
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,760
being true to yourself because
yeah, that's what I think we

580
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,040
need more men in touch with what
they really want and wanted to

581
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,360
be of service to the world.
I think the fulfilled man

582
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,160
radiates good out to everybody
around them, yeah.

583
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:04,280
Brilliant.
Well, thank you.

584
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:05,760
Thank you, Andy.
Thanks for having me on.

585
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,200
Thank you for having me on your
anniversary as well.

586
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,400
That's that's, that's amazing.
So congratulations.

587
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,440
We'll pop some champagne later.
Thank you so much for your

588
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,480
honesty, Philip, and for the
work you're doing with midlife

589
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,640
men.
These conversations matter.

590
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,840
They give language to
experiences that so many men are

591
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,160
having silently.
If today's episode resonated

592
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,800
with you, if you ever hit a
birthday and quietly think is

593
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,240
this it or feel like you're
supposed to have it all figured

594
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,000
out, you're not alone.
And you don't have to navigate

595
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,640
that alone either.
That's exactly why I created the

596
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,000
Community Authentic AFA space
for men who are done pretending.

597
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,480
It's a place to drop the mask,
Talk honestly, build real

598
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,120
conversations, connections, and
explore who you really are.

599
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,880
If this conversation stirred
something in you, come join us

600
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,520
in authentic AF.
Visit realmanfield.org/group

601
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,120
because silence isolates and
connection changes everything.

602
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,320
Until next time, be good to
yourself.