The Invisible Scorecard—What Men Measure and Who They Become

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, Andy Grant, and
today's a big one.

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This is episode 400 as we
continue to celebrate the 10th

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anniversary of Real Men Feel.
All this year, my guests really

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helped me reflect on what
numbers mean and all the things

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we measure in life and why do we
measure them and how we measure

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age and money, success,
followers, years in a

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relationship, how far you think
you've come, how far behind you

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might fear that you are.
But what are we really

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measuring?
And for men especially, we have

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this invisible scorecard running
in the background all the time.

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Am I successful enough, strong
enough, far enough along?

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A good enough provider, a good
enough father, a good enough

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partner?
All these internal measurements

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that can shape our confidence,
our Peace of Mind, our

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relationships, often without us
even realizing it?

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So for this milestone episode, I
invited, but she she

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volunteered, she insisted.
It's a mix of return to the

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show.
Today is Vanessa Cardenas on her

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two prior appearances.
We talked about betrayal,

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healing and relationship repair.
Today we're widening the lens to

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talk about time, growth,
identity comparison and all the

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actual changes that happen when
someone chooses growth over ego.

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So this is not a conversation
about 400 episodes.

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It's a conversation about who a
man can become over time.

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Let's do it.
And welcome back to REAL MEN

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Feel Vanessa.
Yes.

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Oh, I'm so excited.
As I told you when we first

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started, I'm so ridiculously
proud of you.

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I absolutely am.
Oh my goodness.

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And you invited me on to your
podcast.

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And did you know at the time
that it was my second podcast?

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I did.
I actually thought, yeah, I knew

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it was.
I knew it was very early for you

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in that realm.
Now you've been on.

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Do you know how many you've been
on?

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I I have been on over 100.
Yeah, I see you everywhere.

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Yes.
Well, thank you for that and and

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thank you for the opportunity.
You were so gracious to me and

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we had an amazing conversation.
We absolutely did.

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We hit the ground running and
that was it.

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And so much so you invited me
back and we did episode 3 O one

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and three O 3.
You gave me the platform, you

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gave me the runway to share what
I do, and I'm so grateful for

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that.
I'm so grateful for you.

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And now we're here today with a
milestone episode of 400.

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Now it's not only that 400 let
400 land.

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It's also 10 years, 10 years of
your commitment to men.

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And it's not just men, because
men interact with women and they

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interact with their kids and
they interact with their parents

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and their family and their
community.

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So the work that you do in this
particular real men feel, it

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just ripples out constantly.
It's like that koi pond that you

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have in the winter and you have
to make sure that you always

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have the ripple's going on so it
doesn't freeze.

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That's you, that's you.
You're the constant ripple to

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make sure that men feel that
they're allowed to feel.

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And I'm, I'm so honored that you
chose me for #400 We are going

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to have such an amazing
conversation.

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I don't know how long ago, but
you're like, can I have you on

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for episode 400?
I was like, sure, you know, but

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and, and and more than just
celebrating, you know, episodes

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of the show, you suggested
exploring numbers and, and what

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do we measure and why do we
measure things?

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I thought that was really
intriguing.

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Yes, absolutely, because we we
do measure things.

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We are constantly and
subconsciously always measuring

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and we measure things, numbers,
milestones, dates.

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We always have numbers in our
mind.

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For me, in the work that I'm
doing, and I'm a relationship

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reset expert, I work with
couples and individuals to reset

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their relationship, whether it's
an intimate partner

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relationship, family
relationships, work

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relationships, any type of
relationships and we all have

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them.
There are times when they're a

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little contentious and we need a
little help.

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We need a recalibration.
We need to set it up to 11

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perhaps or or tone it down to
maybe a 2 and allow ourselves to

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have the clarity that's needed
to actually really see what's

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going on.
So most men walk around

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measuring themselves internally
every single day.

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They have an internal scorecard
that they are keeping, whether

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consciously or unconsciously.
And it's nobody's talking about

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it.
And it's doing such a

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disservice.
I hear it here in my office

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where men come in and they say,
well, I should be doing this,

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and I have to do that and this
and that.

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And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa.

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And my question is really
simple.

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Who said that?
Who said that to you?

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Why?
Why do you have to do XY and Z?

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And they pause and they think
about it and, and it takes them

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a while to backtrack where this
came from, where this

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measurement of deciding if they
are good enough, if they are

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behind or ahead and if they're
winning or they're feeling.

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And this, this goes on all day
long.

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Subconsciously, they don't even
realize it.

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And it's so detrimental to us.
And just as a society, I get it.

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We, we keep score on everything.
My favorite sport, soccer.

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Why?
Because there can be a tie.

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There doesn't have to be a
winner or a loser.

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It could end in a tie.
And when I first heard that, I

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thought it's so strange.
What do you mean now?

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I love it.
I love that idea of just go have

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fun, have lots of fun, and don't
worry about the score.

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Yes, you still have to worry
about time, and we measure

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things in time as well.
You know it when you're trying

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to sleep and you've woken up in
the middle of the night and you

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look at the clock.
What are you doing?

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First, you're calculating how
much time you have left before

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you have to wake up.
Oh, it's 3:00 in the morning.

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The clock's going to go off at
six.

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I have three more hours to
sleep.

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And then you desperately try to
fall back to sleep.

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Then you look at the clock
again.

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Now it's an hour later.
Oh, I still have two hours left.

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We're constantly doing this
thing with numbers and

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comparison and I really struggle
with that for my clients because

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I see the straitjacket that they
put themselves into by measuring

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and sometimes measuring is a
good thing.

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I will say that sometimes we
need to measure certain things

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to see how far we've actually
come, the distance that we have

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travelled from way back there to
where we are now.

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That's a good measurement.
So sometimes measurements can be

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destructive and sometimes they
can actually be really helpful

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if they're used in the right
way.

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And that's what we want to do.
We want to use them in the right

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way.
What do you think men are

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actually measuring when they are
obsessed over income and status

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and milestones?
Exactly that they are thinking

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of all the different things for
which they are responsible for,

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and it becomes an oversaturation
of responsibility to the point

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where it's overwhelmed and it's
paralysis, like they don't even

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know what to do next.
And comparison, Theodore

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Roosevelt said it.
Comparison is the thief of joy.

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Absolutely is 'cause we compare
ourselves to somebody else.

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And now that we have social
media where you can see

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everybody's perfect life, oh,
I'll let you in on a little

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secret.
Nobody's life is perfect.

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It's not.
It is not perfect.

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But I can tell you this, you are
beautifully unique just as you

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are.
You are as unique as your

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fingerprint and you have amazing
qualities within you if you get

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rid of all of these comparisons
and thinking of someone else.

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Men struggle because they think
that they're incapable.

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They're struggling because no
one has ever taught them to sit

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in those feelings that they have
rather than trying to escape

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them.
So they've been running, running

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from all of these feelings and
all this feeling of comparing

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themselves to something else, to
an ideal that is not realistic.

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It is not.
It is like winning the lottery

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for some sort of situation that
we find ourselves in that we

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don't need to do that to
ourselves.

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Because I'll let you in on
another secret.

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Nobody else is comparing to you.
They're not.

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So many people are so wrapped up
in themselves.

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They're really not thinking of
you.

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They're not keeping score
related to you, but you're

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keeping score related to them
and they're keeping score

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related to somebody else.
And everybody's keeping score

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related to somebody else.
There's no reciprocal keeping.

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It's just churning and churning
and churning and churning to the

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point where everybody's
exhausted.

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Everybody is exhausted from
trying to keep up.

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The expression was, you know,
keep up with the Joneses and the

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grass is always greener on the
other side.

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Well, no, not necessarily.
Not at all.

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What makes you think it's
greener over there?

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Oh, well, because on social
media I see this or I see that

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that's all filtered.
There's a term for it now.

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It's called catfishing and oh
boy, that one drives me crazy.

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It does.
You and I have experienced that

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as well, where we, we think
we're going to meet someone.

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You know it when you're
interviewing for your podcast,

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they send you their media kit
and then they get on screen and

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you're like, whoa, hold on a
second.

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Like the person that I saw
through their media kit was like

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20 years younger and here you
are on screen.

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You're beautiful just as you
are, but I don't understand why

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you felt compelled to present
yourself not as you are.

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And now for me, me, because I
work in a trust environment,

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when I experienced that, where
someone presents themselves a

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certain way and then they come
on screen or I meet them in

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person and they're different, I
suddenly find myself mistrusting

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them because they didn't trust
themselves enough to present

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themselves as they are,
authentically, just as they are,

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because that's secret.
You're uniquely beautiful just

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as you are.
Just show up as you don't

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compare yourself to someone else
because in reality there is no

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comparison.
Done a number of shows recently

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on the Success trap and hollow
Man syndrome and all about, you

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know, chasing all the trappings
of success and checking the

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boxes and getting the
measurements and the milestones.

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And it seems to me most men are
doing that to kind of prove

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their worth, to prove that then
they and they might necessarily

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be comparing themselves to other
people.

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They're comparing themselves to
this, this mythic American man.

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So when you ask guys, where did
you learn that from?

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Do they have an answer?
A lot of times they really

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struggle with it.
Older brother, older cousins, a

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very militant father or a father
figure in their life that's very

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militant.
You have to be this way.

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This is the way for you to be a
man.

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And you see how they are.
You see what they did.

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That's what you need to do.
And suddenly at an early age,

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you're programmed to watch
everything else around you so

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that you can emulate that.
You can be just like that.

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I mean, the whole campaign in
the 80s and 90s was, you know,

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be like, Mike, wait a second.
No, like I want to be me and we

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don't encourage that
individuality.

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At least then now we're getting
a little bit better where you

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are, who you are.
And that's a good thing.

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That's absolutely a good thing
because we don't want to be

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cookie cutters.
We don't want to be just like

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someone else.
We want to be ourselves and we

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want to be comfortable with
ourselves and we want to be

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accepted for who we are, who we
love and how we are without a

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doubt.
And finding your people and, and

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you hear it a lot.
Find your tribe, find your

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people, yes, find your people.
Surround yourself with people

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that lift you up for who you
are.

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Not the comparison and not the
filtered version of you, but who

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you are so that you can enjoy
that feeling.

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And, and we've lost that
feeling.

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We, we almost don't recognize
the feeling when we have it.

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You've had it a couple of times.
I've seen it 'cause you've

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posted it online.
That pure joy, that pure

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unfiltered joy.
And where I have seen it on your

229
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,720
face is when you're front row at
Metallica, at your Metallica

230
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,080
concerts.
You did that whole series where

231
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,880
you were following them.
You were, you were #1 fan

232
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:05,000
without a doubt.
But the pure bliss that you had

233
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:12,520
contagious actually, because you
were in that moment.

234
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,800
And that's what everyone needs
to remember.

235
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:22,200
You are in this moment.
Yes, there's a past, and

236
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,480
sometimes that past is
ridiculously painful.

237
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,960
Ridiculously painful.
But you're not living there.

238
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,160
You're living right here, right
now.

239
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:39,640
So allow yourself those moments
of bliss, those moments of Zen,

240
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,240
those moments of happiness,
because you deserve it.

241
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,280
You absolutely deserve it.
Don't let anyone else tell you

242
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,320
otherwise and absolutely don't
compare it.

243
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,560
Well, I didn't get that big
promotion, so I should live in

244
00:15:54,560 --> 00:16:01,520
the shame of not receiving that.
Who says, Who says?

245
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,160
And sometimes you need to stop
yourself and have somebody else

246
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:12,440
stop you and say, hold on a
second, like, who said that to

247
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,680
you?
Let's, let's be realistic.

248
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,520
Some of us, guilty as charged,
have a wicked inner critic.

249
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,480
Wicked inner critic that started
usually in childhood.

250
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,520
Sometimes you have to tap that
down because you, you yourself

251
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,560
can be the one putting yourself
down.

252
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,800
So find your people.
And you've created a group.

253
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,040
Yes.
You have a group.

254
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,360
Yeah.
Yes, yes, absolutely.

255
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,720
It it's a safe space for men to
just drop the mask, drop the

256
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,560
axe, stop comparing and just be
open and share and realize that

257
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,920
other men aren't out to get them
or judge them.

258
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,960
I've had so many guys in this
group share things for the first

259
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,080
time and there's just other guys
on Zoom listening, nodding and

260
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,480
like, wow, they, you know, they
really thought it was going to

261
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,280
be the end of them to, to share
something or to ask help for

262
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,400
something.
And it just isn't.

263
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,359
But, you know, so we talked
about, you know, comparison and

264
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,040
my belief that it's kind of men
measuring, trying to prove their

265
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,960
worthiness via accomplishment,
being performative.

266
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,319
How does comparison erode
intimacy in in your relationship

267
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:24,760
work?
Do you see that as an issue?

268
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,080
Absolutely.
Because comparison pulls pulls a

269
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,680
man out of his life and it puts
him on to someone else's

270
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,960
timeline, without a doubt.
I'm going to say it one more

271
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,600
time because it's really
important.

272
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,160
I say it to my clients and they
sit there and they think about

273
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,160
it and then they nod.
They realize that yes, that's

274
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:52,600
exactly what's happening.
Comparison pulls a man out of

275
00:17:52,840 --> 00:18:00,160
his life and puts him on to
someone else's timeline with

276
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,040
intimacy.
Comparison is deadly.

277
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,080
It just is.
When a man gets up in here, he

278
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,640
certainly cannot perform.
He just, he's so wrapped up in

279
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:20,760
comparing himself to previous
partners that his intimate

280
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:26,200
partner has had.
And it destroys, it destroys

281
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,920
relationships.
Because when we have holes in

282
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:37,400
stories, we fill those holes.
So if we have not had the

283
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:44,280
difficult conversations with our
wife, husband, partner of sexual

284
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,520
experience, we fill in those
holes.

285
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,720
We suddenly think that it's like
the movies.

286
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,480
It's just been this grandiose
thing and and and and she has

287
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,040
orgasmed 4 times with someone
else and I can barely get her

288
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,880
out orgasm and now she doesn't
make a sound with me.

289
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,760
She probably took off with
everybody else and whatnot and

290
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,320
we fell in those holes and
suddenly once again we're

291
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:17,040
comparing without any context.
And that destroys so many

292
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:22,480
relationships unnecessarily
because we all have experiences.

293
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,440
Some might be better than
others, but your partner's with

294
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,360
you now.
You were chosen.

295
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,360
Honor that, savor that.
Enjoy that.

296
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,440
Stop letting others live rent
free up here.

297
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,400
No, absolutely not.
You're here, right here and

298
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,000
right now.
Be present and also don't

299
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,520
project out into the future.
Oh, well, you know, she's going

300
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,720
to be unhappy with me and I'm,
you know, she's going to leave

301
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:02,280
me and go with someone else.
And all these scenarios and 99%

302
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,040
of the, of the problems or
situations or scenarios we think

303
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,560
are going to happen, they don't,
They absolutely don't.

304
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,440
And we stress ourselves out
unnecessarily.

305
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,280
Live in this moment, enjoy this
moment.

306
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,400
And when you have those
challenges?

307
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,040
When they start to creep in
because what's missing in your

308
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:33,320
relationship is clarity.
If you don't have clarity,

309
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,080
everything starts to creep in.
And when that when those cracks

310
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,640
start to form in your
relationship, that's when

311
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,960
something or someone can enter
into it.

312
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,080
And if you've had a long term
relationship over 10 years,

313
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,080
number one thing I hear in my
foundation session, which is my

314
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,600
very first session, is he should
know what I'm thinking.

315
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,120
He knows he knows what I like or
what I don't like or whatever it

316
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,280
is.
No, no.

317
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,720
Just because you've known each
other for so long doesn't allow

318
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:13,040
you the opportunity to not talk
anymore because you think that

319
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,920
your partner knows what you're
thinking or that you know what

320
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,040
your partner is thinking.
Oh, no, no, no, no.

321
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,840
It doesn't work that way.
We have got to communicate so

322
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,600
that we can have that clarity
because clarity equals

323
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,640
confidence and confidence
definitely equals intimacy.

324
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,840
It just does.
We all know that.

325
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,960
You know when somebody walks
into the room and they have

326
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,800
confidence, Not to be confused
with arrogance, but confidence.

327
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:50,320
They're sure of themselves and
you can be sure of yourself.

328
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,880
Take all the comparison and take
all the measurements out.

329
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,880
Stop, stop.
Focus on you.

330
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,440
Better yet, focus on your
partner.

331
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,960
Ah, because they definitely want
your attention, so give it to

332
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,160
them.
So certainty that someone should

333
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,840
know me is not the clarity.
No, not at all.

334
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,080
It's the language.
It's it's what you say.

335
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,120
It's what comes out of your
mouth.

336
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,960
And not only what comes out of
your mouth, but actually the

337
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,760
words that you use, what you
say.

338
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,440
So I'm going to give you an
example.

339
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,480
I had a client come in with her
husband.

340
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,760
She couldn't wait, couldn't I
mean, they just sat down.

341
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,920
She couldn't wait to tell me.
And she says, I, we sat down on

342
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,440
the couch last night and and you
told me, you know, to speak up

343
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,040
when I felt something speak up.
Yes, that is true.

344
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,640
When you feel something, speak
up.

345
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,280
She goes, I did.
I did exactly what you told me

346
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:45,760
to do.
She was so proud of herself.

347
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:47,320
And I said, OK, what did you
say?

348
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,120
And she goes, yeah, I turned to
him and go, why don't you hold

349
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,480
me anymore?
And I was like, whoa, whoa,

350
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,640
whoa, whoa.
Let's slow this down a little

351
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,000
bit.
You said what?

352
00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,880
She goes, why don't you hold me
anymore?

353
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,440
And I, I said to her without
even looking at her husband.

354
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,600
I said, and he didn't say a
word.

355
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,600
He clammed up.
He got a little closer to the

356
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,760
edge of the couch.
She goes exactly.

357
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,720
And he, of course, is nodding.
And I said, because you made him

358
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,360
defensive.
I said you could have asked the

359
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,120
same question a different way
with six words.

360
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,360
You could have leaned into him
and when he puts his arm around

361
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:30,640
you because of listen, not for
nothing, any woman that leans

362
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,360
into a man, he usually then puts
his arm around he he snuggles in

363
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,560
because he feels that that's an
opening.

364
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,440
You lean into him and when he
puts his arm around you or puts

365
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:50,080
his hand on your leg or whatever
contacted is you say I like

366
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:57,480
this, I miss this 6 words.
That's it.

367
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,160
I miss this, that he's going to
hear you.

368
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,520
He's going to hear that you miss
this.

369
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,720
Rather than making him defensive
with how come you never hold me

370
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,080
anymore?
The same want the same, wanting

371
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,040
to understand the same clarity
in that, but it's different

372
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,120
language and sometimes we have
to use different language.

373
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:24,400
We have to think before we
actually speak and say something

374
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,840
to understand how it's going to
be received.

375
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,800
Yeah.
Because men want to protect and

376
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,600
provide.
So yeah, if you, if you saw, if

377
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,120
you let your men feel like he's
protecting and saving you openly

378
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,800
ask and say you missed something
great.

379
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,560
But yeah, if you if you come
aggressive, then they're going

380
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,440
to try to protect themselves.
Absolutely, absolutely.

381
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:53,560
And once men, men or women get
into this role of protecting

382
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,120
themselves, really hard to get
them out.

383
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,440
It's really hard to get them out
of that.

384
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,000
So let's not put them in there
to start with.

385
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,160
Let's think about what we want
to say.

386
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,160
And I know that sometimes we
have so much anger and so much

387
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,400
rage and we don't understand
what's going on in our

388
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,000
relationship.
It feels different.

389
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,560
The relationship feels
different.

390
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,520
We can't quite put our finger on
what it is, but things have

391
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,800
slowed down.
The intimacy is not as frequent

392
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,360
that the the bickering seems to
have been escalating a little

393
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,880
bit.
We just can't quite figure it

394
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,800
out.
That's where I come in.

395
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:36,080
That's where I like to come in.
And I'm an alternative to

396
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,840
marriage therapy because I will
say this, most of my clients,

397
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,480
couples, she has found me.
She's found me online.

398
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,320
I have a very large digital
footprint, especially in my

399
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,200
local community, Westchester
County, New York.

400
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:57,240
And she will find me and she
will encourage drag her, her

401
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,680
spouse with her.
And we do a 90 minute session to

402
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,960
start with.
And I hit the ground running.

403
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,720
I, I'm from New York and there
there's no, there's no like, you

404
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,800
know, let's ease into this.
Oh, no, no, no, we go right into

405
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:16,080
it.
And more times than not, the men

406
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,560
at the end of 90 minutes or if
we wind up going overtime, which

407
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,120
I will tell you most likely
happens more often than not,

408
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,600
I've gone over time by at least
two hours.

409
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,480
So we can have a three and a
half hour session.

410
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,840
Yes, 3 1/2 hour session.
Because stuff is happening,

411
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,880
stuff is stirring, stuff is
happening and we want to

412
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,640
continue to get that out.
I am not a up, time's up.

413
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,240
We'll pick this up in two weeks
type of person.

414
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,120
Not at all.
So I'm an alternative to

415
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:51,280
marriage therapy.
And the men will get up and wow,

416
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,920
this was, I've never had a
therapy session like this.

417
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,640
And I have to correct them.
And I'm like, well, you haven't

418
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,720
had a therapy session.
This is a coaching session.

419
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,960
Very different than therapy
because we work on here and now

420
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,680
here and now What is going on
here and now you want to keep

421
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,520
bringing up the past.
You can for a little bit, just a

422
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,240
little.
I'll give you a little bit of a

423
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,880
runway.
But other than that, no, we're,

424
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,320
we're, we're not back there.
We're here and now.

425
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:28,000
And that's when I start to hear
men open up and talk about

426
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,320
comparison.
They talk about this scorecard

427
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,160
that they have where they have
to keep up and they feel that

428
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:42,840
their spouse doesn't acknowledge
them, doesn't appreciate them.

429
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,840
And it's very interesting the
dynamic that happens between the

430
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,840
two.
I'll let you in on how I usually

431
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,320
start my sessions.
Tell me two things that you

432
00:27:55,360 --> 00:28:00,680
absolutely love and adore your
partner and one thing about

433
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:06,000
yourself that you'd like to work
on working with me and each

434
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,560
partner says we usually go two
or three rounds.

435
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,920
I usually like to do two or
three rounds, especially if they

436
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,080
have answers like right off the
cuff, like they, they know their

437
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,480
answers.
Most of the time one of them is

438
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,080
starting to cry.
Why is that?

439
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,280
Because they're hearing
something from their spouse that

440
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,120
their spouse loves or adores
about them that they have not

441
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:35,960
heard in years.
And the partner will look at

442
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,880
their partner who's in tears
and, you know, and what's going

443
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:40,280
on.
Why?

444
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,160
Why are you crying?
I haven't heard you say that.

445
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,960
Well, you know that, you know
that I think you're beautiful.

446
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:54,120
And it's like, yeah, maybe, but
you haven't said it in like 8

447
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:59,080
years.
So yeah, I know it, but I want

448
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,560
to hear it.
I want to feel it.

449
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,560
I want to know it.
Same thing on the men's side,

450
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,320
that they hear something from
their wife that they turn and

451
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,640
look like so shocked, like
really like you even noticed

452
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,960
that one said that her husband
had a wicked sense of humor and

453
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,520
he looked at her like she was
from Mars, like he could not

454
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,680
believe that she said that.
She even recognized that.

455
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,640
And that's what missing in a lot
of relationships is the

456
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,880
recognition is the
acknowledgement is the

457
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,920
appreciation for the other
person.

458
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:46,440
Because we get so wrapped up in
ourselves and our own scorecard

459
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,680
where we're comparing ourselves
to other people and we're not

460
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,160
paying attention to the most
important, the two most

461
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,680
important relationships that we
have in our lives.

462
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,600
One is with our intimate
partner.

463
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,840
The second is with ourselves.
Ourselves absolutely has to be

464
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,920
the top priority.
I know for a lot of my couples,

465
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,280
they're like, whoa, hold on a
second.

466
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,960
I want us to be the priority.
No, now, second, because you

467
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,600
cannot have a cohesive
relationship, a good solid

468
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,120
relationship, if you are not
comfortable with your own self.

469
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,600
So how do you get comfortable
with your own self?

470
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,200
Stop the comparisons.
You're right out of the gate.

471
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,120
You lose the scorecard, you slim
it down.

472
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,800
You keep slimming it down.
You know, it doesn't have to be

473
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,280
20 different things that you're
keeping track of.

474
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,560
Cut it down in half, then cut it
down in half again.

475
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,440
Bring it down to the final
three.

476
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,520
Bring it down to the final one.
Because if you do need

477
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:59,000
something, something to help you
feel good about yourself, I'm

478
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,600
not going to strip that from
you.

479
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,840
Of course not.
But you don't have to have 20

480
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,520
different things to make you
feel good about yourself.

481
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,080
It almost seems like
relationships are missing a

482
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:16,120
scorecard, like they're they're
more obvious in, you know, your

483
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,040
job has promotions and
performance reviews.

484
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,360
They're always getting
evaluated.

485
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,800
And for a relationship, it's
like get married, have kids,

486
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,240
stay married.
Like there's there's less things

487
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,280
to celebrate and accomplish
together.

488
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,520
But you you choose that in your
relationship, you decide what

489
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,880
are your milestones see
milestones and scorecard

490
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,280
completely different.
I'm I'm going to say that they

491
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,720
are different.
You can have great milestones

492
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,840
absolutely have great
milestones.

493
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,280
You have them episode 410 years.
Those are milestones.

494
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,560
We we celebrate those.
Yes, celebrate those.

495
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,320
However, with the laundry list,
the tit for tat.

496
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,800
I took out the garbage this
week.

497
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,080
You have to take it out next
week.

498
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,680
Did you feed the dog?
Did you do this?

499
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,000
Did you do that?
Da, da, da.

500
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,320
Check mark, check mark.
Check mark, check mark and

501
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,200
whatnot.
And keeping score that way.

502
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,480
That's destructive.
Gotcha.

503
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,760
Yeah, that's destructive.
Yeah, so getting back to the the

504
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,560
the 400 talk.
When?

505
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,720
We talk you, you first.
You shared that that 400 seconds

506
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,720
was nothing but 400 days.
You can, you can truly change

507
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,400
your life.
So The thing is, so is do you

508
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,000
think is there anything someone
can't transform in 400 days?

509
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,560
No.
I couldn't think of it either.

510
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,480
Yeah.
No, you can, absolutely.

511
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:44,840
You can absolutely be completely
different 400 days later,

512
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,640
absolutely.
Because when you set your mind

513
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:53,600
to something, a goal that you
have for yourself, you can do

514
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,720
anything.
That's why people train.

515
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,920
That's why athletes train.
That's why you go to university.

516
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,080
You're, you're studying, you're
training for it.

517
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,640
But you know, I share this with
my children early on because I,

518
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:14,680
I saw the impact that grades
were having on my children and,

519
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,440
and the stress that they found
themselves in.

520
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,280
And I would tell them, you know
what your future employer, they

521
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,760
might be concerned with your GPA
at the bottom of a resume, but

522
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,120
most aren't.
They really aren't.

523
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,840
They just want to know that you
have the capability to think on

524
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,960
your feet because that's what
school is doing for you.

525
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,960
It's teaching you how to think.
And critical thinking is really

526
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,680
important, especially in AI.
And we can talk about that

527
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,160
completely separately, but it's
nobody's going to ask you for

528
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,440
your report card.
You do well, but stressing out

529
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,800
over it, it's not healthy.
It's absolutely not.

530
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,680
You do the best you can and you
leave it at that.

531
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,720
And sometimes school can pit
people against each other again

532
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,680
unnecessarily.
It doesn't need to be like that.

533
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,400
And you control yourself.
So yes, 400 days.

534
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,560
Can you make some serious
change?

535
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,800
Absolutely, without a doubt.
But we're going to go back 400

536
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:22,440
hours builds momentum.
You're training every single day

537
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:23,920
for an hour.
Yeah.

538
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,960
Suddenly 400 hours of training,
you're going to start to have

539
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,920
definition.
You're going to your, your

540
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,400
body's going to change.
Even if you don't want to

541
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,120
change, can't imagine anybody
not wanting to change.

542
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,880
But let's say you that's not
your goal is to change your

543
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,639
physique just to be a little
healthier.

544
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:48,120
The byproduct of it is going to
be that your physique is going

545
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,360
to change.
Then we go back a little

546
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:57,000
further. 400 minutes, 400
minutes in a day can change your

547
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,600
state of who you of how you
react to certain things.

548
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,920
We all know this.
If you have a bad morning,

549
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,240
something happens in the
morning.

550
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,640
That's that can stay with you
the whole day.

551
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,240
And you refer to it ruined my
day.

552
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,320
What do you mean it's 10 AM?
What do you mean it's ruined

553
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,680
your day?
You can absolutely turn that

554
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,840
around 400 minutes later, have
that joy that we've been talking

555
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,520
about.
Absolutely.

556
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:35,560
And then 400 months, 400 months,
that can be a lifetime.

557
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,960
That's why we have those
milestones.

558
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:44,080
That's why certain birthdays
mean more than other birthdays.

559
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,760
50 is a milestone, 60 is a
milestone, and 40 is a

560
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,040
milestone.
Same thing with marriages.

561
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,280
Why do you think they call it a
golden anniversary when you've

562
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,040
been married for 50 years?
I did find out that for 35,

563
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,200
because I've been married for 35
years, is emerald.

564
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,600
I like green.
I have green eyes.

565
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,400
Oh, yeah, no, I I like that.
So it's, it's those things that

566
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:15,920
bring us joy.
And if numbering it brings you

567
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,360
joy, I'm not going to strip you
of that, absolutely not.

568
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,920
But if the numbering and the
scorecard is bringing you down,

569
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:28,640
air it up, get rid of it.
You don't need it.

570
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,320
In your work, do you see any
consistency in terms of a

571
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:40,200
scorecard item that men really
tend to overvalue or or one that

572
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,440
they undervalue?
Appreciation, they really don't

573
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,800
feel like they're appreciated by
their partner like that That is

574
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,800
the one that really sticks out.
I feel hurt for them.

575
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:58,560
I, I see how painful it is for
them not to be recognized for

576
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,680
the contribution that they make
to their family.

577
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,280
How you mentioned about being
protective and how to be the,

578
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:11,240
and being the provider and, and
the, the classic ways in which

579
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,160
men and women interact with each
other, that their partner

580
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:21,720
doesn't acknowledge it or
appreciate it.

581
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:26,560
And again, that little bit of
irony where the the spouse will

582
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,760
be like, of course I appreciate
that.

583
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,360
I yeah, I do.
Of course, you know, I do.

584
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,600
And it's like, no, I don't know
that you do because you don't

585
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,880
acknowledge it.
So one of the techniques that I

586
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:43,000
use with my couples is that when
they are social, they are not

587
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,040
allowed to speak about
themselves.

588
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,440
They can only speak about their
spouse.

589
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,040
So, and that's a little awkward.
They find they struggle with

590
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,480
that.
But once they get the hang of

591
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,920
it, they really like it because
the spouse overhears them

592
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,440
talking to their group of
people, whatever it is, and

593
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:09,000
saying, Oh my gosh, Andy just
got his 400th episode and he's

594
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,320
he's done podcasting for 10
years.

595
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,800
Can you believe that?
I'm so proud of him now, you

596
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,240
know, overhearing that, that
suddenly feels tingly and warm

597
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,880
because you heard your spouse
say that.

598
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,520
And that's what we want.
We want that recognition,

599
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,960
outward recognition.
And we also want it internally

600
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,880
just to be able to say please
and thank you.

601
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,120
That seems to be missing in a
lot of relationships, and we

602
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,600
have to acknowledge that.
Anytime my husband gets up from

603
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,880
the couch and he comes back with
an extra glass of water for me,

604
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,120
it's so thoughtful.
I take it as thoughtful.

605
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,720
Even if I didn't want it, if I
already had a glass, whatever it

606
00:38:54,720 --> 00:39:00,040
might be, I still say thank you.
I say thank you for thinking of

607
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,360
me.
You recognized me.

608
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,000
Another thing that I do with my
couples because I've I've heard

609
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,720
this more often and it it makes
me uncomfortable.

610
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,160
And usually when something makes
me uncomfortable, I do need to

611
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,400
speak up for it.
As I said, I've got that New

612
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,920
York grid to me is he'll say,
you know, I acknowledge her.

613
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,920
I I commented on, you know, that
she looked really beautiful the

614
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,600
other morning.
And she'll suck her teeth,

615
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,780
she'll roll her eyes and she
goes, oh, I was in sweats and AT

616
00:39:32,780 --> 00:39:36,560
shirt and I had my hair in a bun
and I felt awful, you know?

617
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,920
And there he is, you know, like,
wow, you look really beautiful.

618
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,600
And she goes, I just, I heard
that as I want to have sex, I'm

619
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,840
like, whoa, whoa, whoa, time
out, time out.

620
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,120
I look at him and I'm like, is
that what you meant by the

621
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,240
comment?
Is that your like love language

622
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:54,320
or something?
And he's like, no, not at all.

623
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,240
I was on my way out.
I just happened to notice and I

624
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:01,240
said it and I said OK.
And what was her response?

625
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,200
And he says, well, she dismissed
me.

626
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:09,960
And I look at her and I'm like,
yeah, no, no, because you've

627
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,720
dismissed him.
When he expressed himself

628
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,840
something about you that
prompted him to say something,

629
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:24,440
you took it, twisted it, made it
into something else, and then

630
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,040
dismissed him.
I said, what do you think?

631
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:33,160
The likelihood of him saying
something nice to you again is

632
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:38,720
going to be slim to none.
I said take the compliment.

633
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:44,280
Take the compliment.
Even if you don't feel it, take

634
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,960
the compliment.
Thank you, please and thank you.

635
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,960
Because the amount of times that
I also hear on my couch is, you

636
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,400
know, I'll get all dressed up
and he won't even notice.

637
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,080
He won't notice that I cut my
hair.

638
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,280
He won't, you know, he doesn't
notice this.

639
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,240
And notice is a really big word
in my office from both sides.

640
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,440
And that's what couples and
individuals are looking for.

641
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,680
They want to be noticed.
They want to be seen.

642
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,040
And then they start comparing
themselves to other people that

643
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,240
they feel like they're being
seen.

644
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,600
They, they are being seen on
socials.

645
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,880
They have, you know, 100 likes
and 500 comments and blah blah

646
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,640
blah.
Isn't that the root of so many

647
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,840
affairs that someone noticed me,
someone paid attention that they

648
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,280
they used to get from their
spouse?

649
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,440
Exactly, exactly it is.
It is the number one driver of

650
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,600
that is just to be seen and
heard again. 90 minute sessions.

651
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,200
I have sessions with just the
husband themselves.

652
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,640
Usually I see the couple, then I
see each individually to get a

653
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,520
better understanding of what's
happening, then I see them

654
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,480
again, then I see them
separately again and and that

655
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,360
structure works really well.
I do it in a 90 day container to

656
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,200
start with just to get some
movement happening, some of that

657
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,760
clarity happening.
Most of the men go over time by

658
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,280
at least an hour, surprisingly
enough.

659
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,000
Usually the women are very good.
They kind of watch the clock and

660
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,080
90 minutes and whatnot.
And they, they, they wrap it up

661
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,040
into a nice little bow.
They do that.

662
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,720
I don't control that.
That's their choice.

663
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,960
But the men will speak for 2 1/2
hours.

664
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:31,280
And one of them commented at the
end, you know, recently this was

665
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,640
great.
Like, I, I, I don't think I've

666
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,000
ever spoken for 2 1/2 hours.
Like they don't even realize it

667
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:43,960
because they have a lot to say.
And we, we as partners need to

668
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,440
hear that we do.
We need to invest in our

669
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,880
relationship.
You said it perfectly.

670
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,120
We, we tend to think that the
end is actually saying I do.

671
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,920
No, it's not.
Just because you say I do the

672
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,400
work doesn't stop.
It actually accelerates.

673
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,040
It gets amplified.
You have to continue to do the

674
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:10,200
work and the reward.
The reward is golden.

675
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,480
Absolutely golden.
So what's the best way for

676
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,520
people to connect with you and
learn about everything you're

677
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,200
offering?
Well, as I mentioned, my digital

678
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,160
footprint is pretty big.
I'm on all the socials, but my

679
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,360
URL is the best.
It's filled with all types of

680
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,480
information, including the
difference between marriage

681
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,280
therapy and relationship
coaching.

682
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:39,160
And my URL is understanding EAR
understandingear.com.

683
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,360
So what's one thing you wish
more men knew?

684
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,840
That they're not alone, that
they, they don't have to put on

685
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,800
the mask, as you said, they
don't have to put up a front.

686
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,640
Initially they might feel that
way, but be you.

687
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,560
Be authentically you.
Don't catfish even slightly

688
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,920
because who you're hurting the
most is yourself.

689
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,480
Look in the mirror, see
yourself, acknowledge yourself,

690
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:14,480
trust yourself, recognize that
you are who you are and someone

691
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,920
else is going to see you just as
you are.

692
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,440
Be authentic, as you say.
I'm going to ask you one final

693
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:29,680
question, if that's OK.
So 400 episodes in 10 years, how

694
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,240
are you showing up today
differently than when you

695
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:37,960
started?
Good Lord, could be an infinite

696
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,400
number of ways.
I mean, what when I started Real

697
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,000
men feel my goal was to do at
least three episodes before I

698
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,440
quit.
Like that was my pattern.

699
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,000
I'll try this thing.
Oh, it's tough.

700
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,680
Oh, then it it's not for me.
Things like school were so easy

701
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,240
for me that I took the wrong
lesson that what I'm really

702
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:57,560
meant to do, my path, what I
should be doing will be easy to

703
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,760
do all the time.
And that's not the case.

704
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,560
And you know, to fulfill our,
our Persian, Persian making up

705
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,200
new words to fulfill our purpose
and mission.

706
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,400
It, it will hit challenges like
life is like you're sure you

707
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,160
want to do this, not to make it
go away, but just to make sure

708
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,040
you got to put the effort into
it, right.

709
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,680
You need to keep throwing away
the internal scorecard, finding

710
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,560
a new way to measure milestones.
And you know, we, we mentioned

711
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,400
about it before about only
comparing yourself to yourself

712
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,280
in the past.
I think I first heard from Wayne

713
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,440
Dyer that like the only person
to compare yourself is to you in

714
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,880
the past.
I don't recognize me 10 years

715
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,480
ago.
And when I've fallen and gone

716
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,160
backwards, there've been people
like you to reach out and poke

717
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,120
me.
And you know another thing I

718
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,520
would 10 years ago, I would have
no not believed how many friends

719
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,720
I have that began via podcasts.
I often forget like, oh, my

720
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:53,360
friend Vanessa.
Oh wow, was she a was she a

721
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,520
friend I had on the show or she
someone on the show that became

722
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,400
friends?
You know, I get I get lost like

723
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,920
that all the time.
When I stopped talking to the

724
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,760
world, there was one year I
didn't do a single show.

725
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,280
So we'd be more at like episode
450 today if I'd not just turned

726
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,280
my back on life.
But you would send messages, get

727
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,600
no response over and over.
But you can still get send

728
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:14,800
messages.
And I read them all.

729
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,160
I just didn't respond.
And yeah, you didn't quit.

730
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,600
I really I even then when I
wouldn't say anything, I

731
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,520
appreciated it.
And I want to leave with a

732
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,240
quote.
And you're going to tell me

733
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:29,120
where it's from.
Are you ready?

734
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,680
Yeah, life is ours.
We live it our way.

735
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,080
Nothing else matters.
Metallica.

736
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,680
Yep, I got 4 shows coming in
October.

737
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,360
Nice, nice.
Awesome.

738
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,480
Yeah, when I came, I did that.
I and I it made it into the

739
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:47,520
show.
I was like, let's try this.

740
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,000
I was walking out of Metallica
show and I tried this like shoot

741
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,360
an intro and I said like, I hope
everyone has something they love

742
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,920
in their life as much as I love
Metallica and I was in tears.

743
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,120
I was just like, there.
There's so many things in life

744
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,600
that can give us the scorecard
that matters, that overflowing

745
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,480
with joy.
That's so much of why I do this,

746
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,000
because I want masculinity to be
more synonymous with joy than it

747
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,920
ever has been.
Great goal.

748
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,520
Absolutely, absolutely.
Because it trickles out.

749
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,280
It absolutely does.
It ripples and ripples and

750
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,600
ripples and good men, good
women, good humans.

751
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,720
And love.
I love, love.

752
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,600
I'm I'm so into love.
Absolutely Lovejoy, peace and

753
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:38,160
just an opportunity to be
beautiful and uniquely beautiful

754
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,640
in your own skin.
Love who you are.

755
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,840
So thanks so much for joining us
in the show.

756
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,560
Thanks so much for being part of
my life.

757
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,920
Thanks for doing the work you do
and being authentically you,

758
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,160
Vanessa.
Thank you, Andy.

759
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,240
What I really appreciate about
this conversation is the

760
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:57,280
reminder that numbers by
themselves don't tell the whole

761
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,400
story.
Time alone does not heal,

762
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,800
milestones do not fulfill us,
and comparison will never create

763
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,120
peace.
So to every man listening, maybe

764
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,720
it's time to stop measuring
yourself by someone else's

765
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:15,880
timeline, someone else's
standards, or the old story in

766
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,160
your head that says you should
be further along by now.

767
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,520
Maybe the better question is not
how do I compare, but who am I

768
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,240
becoming?
So thank you, dear listener, for

769
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:31,880
being part of real Menfield,
whether this is your first

770
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:36,480
episode or you've been with us
for years, reaching 400 episodes

771
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,160
in 10 years.
I'm I'm deeply grateful for

772
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,840
every guest, every listener,
every opportunity, every time I

773
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:47,840
can be a guest, every review,
every rating it, it, it means

774
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:52,480
more to me than I will ever be
able to convey across in this

775
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,080
recording.
And if you're a man who is ready

776
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,040
to drop the mask, start having
honest conversations.

777
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:03,240
Come join us in authentic AF at
realmenfield.org/group.

778
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,600
And until next time, be good to
yourself.