Discover Your Animal Archetype: The Power of Personality

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I think the dangers, people
start trying to become something

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they're not, right?
I don't want that.

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You should love yourself because
you yourself, whatever your

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personality type has, even if it
hasn't shown itself yet, your

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personality type has a lot of
strengths that you have to offer

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the world.
So definitely recommend working

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on those first and growing to be
the best version of yourself.

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Hello and welcome to Real and
Feel.

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I'm your host, Andy Grant.
Today we're talking about

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something that every man
wrestles with at some point.

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Who am I really?
My guest today is Eric G.

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He's a published author, life
and writing coach, and an expert

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in reading people.
Eric has developed a unique

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personality typing system based
on animal archetypes that cuts

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through pop psychology myths and
helps people understand

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themselves in a practical and
grounded way.

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His book, The Power of
Personality, invites us to stop

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forcing ourselves into roles
that don't fit and instead make

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better choices in our careers,
relationships, and lives by

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understanding how we are
actually wired.

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This conversation blends
insight, humor, and real talk

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about identity, voice, and
becoming the best version of

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yourself without betraying who
you are.

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So if you've ever felt like
you're trying to live someone

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else's life or wondering why
certain things just don't seem

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to work out for you, this one's
for you.

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If you want to go deeper, take a
look at our online community,

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Authentic AF.
Visit Real Men Feel at Org slash

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group and let's do it.
Hello Eric, and welcome to Real

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Men Feel.
How's it going?

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Very good.
I know we're jumping right into

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it, so I like that.
I like that feeling.

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Yeah.
So Eric, for guys that haven't

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heard about you, what problem
were you trying to solve when

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you created your own personality
typing system?

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You know, like I owned an
education company for about a

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decade and that's kind of where
I developed this personality

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typing methodology.
My company had about like 1000

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students a year.
And so obviously I didn't see

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all these students.
I had a staff of teachers, but I

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looked through all their files
and we talked to the teachers

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about them.
That was a long way of me saying

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like, my goal was seeing how
people are treated differently.

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Or like, I guess what I should
say is we all should be treated

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differently actually.
And yet we're like, kind of put

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on this like path of like, oh,
you need to be this way.

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And when you study personality
typing methodology, you discover

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a reason for that.
And there is a reason for that,

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but without saying what the
reason is right now.

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That was my goal was like to, to
help people understand, like

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especially teachers, because
teachers are so impactful on

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their kids lives.
And this is when you know that

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we're at the age where we're
really developing where you

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don't tell people what they
should be.

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You should tell them how to
become the best version of

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themselves.
And I think that was why I

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developed the whole methodology
in the first place.

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So is that sense of what you
should be?

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Is that what you saw as most
confusing or fusing or

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misleading about other
personally models that were out

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there?
Yeah.

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You know, well, actually other
personality models, the problem

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that I have with them.
And I don't say problem isn't

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like, I'm like just like firing
bullets at them, you know,

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taking shots in the butt, you
know, like I think they tend to

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focus on superficial things.
And I know people are like, it's

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not superficial like, so I guess
our level of superficiality is

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what we make of it, right?
But I feel like when you focus

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on things that people show you
on the outside, I not to say

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that those aren't important, but
I think there are deeper reasons

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for those things.
So even like things like, oh,

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introverted, extroverted, this
person is more talkative and

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this person's more shy.
I feel like that's a really

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superficial way to look at it
because I've, and once again,

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this is all comes from
experience.

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People complaining to me like
saying this stuff is so stupid

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because, you know, I've
extroverted in this situation

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and I'm introverted in this
situation.

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And I agreed.
I was like, yeah, you know,

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you're right.
Like I, I just for my own life

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and my own experiences and my
own observations, I've seen

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that.
So it's more not about what we

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show on the outside, but why we
are like that.

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So everybody can write.
Not one personality is great at

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writing, you know, or like
that's the writing type or this

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is like the leader type.
But it's why we do the things we

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do.
And I think that's kind of my

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issue with other personality
type of methodologies.

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They focus too much on the
external and not about the

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motivations why we do the things
we do.

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So why animals?
Why?

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Why do animal archetypes work
better for human personalities?

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Oh, that's an easy explanation.
It's just easy to remember, you

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know, like, and it's fun.
Easy to remember and fun like

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everyone.
Well, it depends on what animal

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you get.
If someone gets a fox,

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everyone's super excited about
being a fox, right?

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And we know what a fox is like.
Like if you just said, oh, that

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that person, she's a fox, well,
it might be a different

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connotation based on the gender.
But if you said like that person

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acts like a fox, we know.
Oh, OK, They're like kind of

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sneaky sly, right?
So animals are very easy to

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remember the personality
archetypes and just, it's easy,

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just like like I know some of
them have other personality type

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of methodologies have like
letter combinations and stuff.

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And people are like, yeah, I
took this test a long time ago

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and I got ELMJ, whatever.
They don't remember that.

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But if you tell someone, hey,
you're an owl, they're always

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going to remember they're an
owl.

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So I've done a couple of
shamanic journeys to find my my

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guide animal and three times I
always got the same animal and

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it was always a chipmunk.
So a monk.

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Interesting.
So what I.

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Wonder what that, whatever that
means.

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What does a chipmunk mean?
Like like you have a lot of

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energy.
Is that what they're saying?

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And it was.
It was a fun loving chipmunk.

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OK, specific.
So yeah, crafty, small, getting

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things done.
I don't know.

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But yeah.
But you know, in the environment

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it's already like, oh, there,
I'm a lion.

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I'm a, I'm a Falcon.
I'm a, you know, I'm a tiger.

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I'm a chipmunk.
And I really, I didn't, you

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know, the times because I was, I
kept getting the same thing like

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years apart.
I'm like, all right, I'm a

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chipmunk.
I'll take it, but.

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No, I'm a predator.
You keep like typing in

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Predator, Predator, predator.
Damn it.

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I like you getting this
chipmunk.

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So that sense of the shamanic
version of a guide animal is not

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the same as your personality
types.

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That's why I bring it up.
Oh yeah, I mean, it is like,

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obviously there are symbolic
choices as well and some of the

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animals that I chose.
But yeah, for the most part it's

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just it's something easy to
remember and the traits tend to

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do match.
Like if you're someone's a

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shark, then when you think of a
shark, what do you think of

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aggressive, action oriented,
very direct, you know, both

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literally and figuratively.
And that's exactly how shark

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personalities like they're very
direct, blunt.

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They are on the tap.
Of course, certain weaknesses

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they share with sharks is that
they can be a little narrow

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minded and narrow focus.
So you got to be really focused

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and that's a strength.
But also you sometimes it

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prevents you from seeing like
the pole picture.

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So, you know, things like that
do kind of match the animals.

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Are there any animal types that
show up most often in the

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population?
Yes, and how you mentioned

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before how you know, we were
told to be a certain way.

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So the way I, this is going to
get really wonky really fast.

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But you know, I first separate
people into four personality

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packs and of course I call them
packs because we got animals,

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right?
And within each pack there are

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four animal types.
So that's kind of cool because

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you'll start to see people in
life, right, that are similar to

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you, but not exactly the same.
So you probably share the same

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pack, but might not necessarily
be the same animal personality

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type within that pack.
And each pack desires or has

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different core values.
And one of the major core values

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is safety and security.
And the people who make up that

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pack who value safety and
security make about half the

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population.
So I mentioned that because any

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animal within that pack, and I
call that pack the gatherer

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pack, they will show themselves
more in the population.

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So each one of those animal
personality types is probably

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like I'd say 12 to 13% of the
population.

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So they show up the most and the
only issue with that is because

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they see themselves or people
like them quite a bit.

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They have the mindset, oh, this
is how people should be like

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because but he's like this,
right?

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Maybe there's like that one
person that I saw was a weirdo,

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but they're just different.
And then there's something wrong

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with them.
But so that becomes a danger,

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right?
Because when you make up that

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much of the population, you
start feeling like you are the

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norm.
Is there an animal archetype

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that you find most men want to
be, and which one are they

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actually?
I would say when most men want

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to be, in fairness to men,
especially since I am one, I'd

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say most men are told they
should be at an early age.

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So that's they want to be it
because that's what makes them a

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real man, right?
And I'm putting that in quotes.

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I would definitely need the stag
and that is one of the animals

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within the gatherer pack and a
stag is I always sell stags.

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Hey, you know what the world was
made for you it you know,

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especially for the men, right?
Like stags are confident, they

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are structured, they're
responsible, they do their duty,

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they're organized.
They are very, I would say

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stubborn, but they wouldn't say
they're very resilient and tough

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and not afraid of being in front
of people and saying what they

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think.
They're the person who like, if

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you're in school with a stag and
you get, or you get into like a

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group assignment with them,
their, their natural instincts

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go, OK, this is what we're going
to do guys.

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They will naturally start
bossing you around, you know,

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and bossy is obviously
pejorative, but what I mean is

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they'll naturally take charge
because they just have that

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confidence and they feel like
the way that the values that

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they have are reconstantly being
reinforced, whether it's in

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school or in society, and
especially men, because they're

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told to, you know, stags are
very tough and men are often

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told be tough.
Like this is your duty.

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You do it.
You know this, your

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responsibility, you do it.
And even if you don't like it,

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you go for it and you do it and
don't complain and never whine.

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So yeah, that was a long way of
saying stags.

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That's what men are told they
should be.

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So stag, we when we talked
previously, we talked about the

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man box.
So it seems like the stag is the

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stereotypical man box archetype.
That's the man.

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Yeah.
You know, like, sometimes, like,

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I would say, like sharks can
also be that.

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But a shark is your typical
action hero, right?

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Where a funny enough, a stag
will think they're a shark,

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they'll see themselves on like,
let's say a version of

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themselves on the big screen.
Like, I don't know, like Bruce

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Willis and Die Hard.
Oh, yeah, he's cool.

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I'm exactly like that.
But you know, deep down inside,

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when they actually meet people
like that, they're going to be

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like, oh, that person's so like,
they don't have their life

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together.
They're like, so like random.

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And, you know, like they don't,
they're not organized and

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structured enough.
Like the stag's favorite thing

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to do on a weekend is to go to
Costco.

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Number one, that's the very
thing to do.

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Costco is like what all stags
love to do.

227
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,880
They feel like this is great.
This is the best situation.

228
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,000
Buy stuff for the home.
It's it's cheap, right?

229
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,600
Like it's economically, you
know, intelligent or shrewd for

230
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:01,480
me to do this.
Yeah.

231
00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:03,400
That's their dream vacation is
going to Costco.

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00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:09,400
All right, so men feel they
should be stags and sharks.

233
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,640
Is there a type that
statistically most men actually

234
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,280
show up as?
Even The funny thing is I would

235
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:22,000
say that statistically, the stag
and the like, I mean stags, I'm

236
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,600
going to say start saying a
bunch of animals now.

237
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,560
All the gatherer packs.
So stags, Beavers, elephants and

238
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:31,280
bears make about 1213%.
And it's, it's and you know, I

239
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:32,360
worked with thousands of
students.

240
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,240
So clearly they're, they're boys
and girls and we didn't see any

241
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,560
like change.
It wasn't like, oh, more girls

242
00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,880
are prone to be this now I will
say the more girls and boys are

243
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,200
old to be like it was being
mentioned more like this type.

244
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,760
And really the key with that I
would try to teach my teachers

245
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,080
is how do you get them off of
what they're being told what

246
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,320
they should be and how do you
really focus on what they

247
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,000
actually are?
First you got to find out what

248
00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,120
they actually are by observation
and then help them realize that

249
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,480
there's certain strengths to
that personality too.

250
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,360
So I would say like there are a
lot of stag men.

251
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,920
So that's, I mean, that is a
good thing, but also a problem,

252
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,200
right?
Because since they're make up

253
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,080
13% of the population, it's so
natural for a stag man to say,

254
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,960
oh, well, I see a lot of people
like me.

255
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:15,960
This is great.
You should be like me too, even

256
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,880
though maybe you have a bear
man, a bear man.

257
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,560
And it would be like Ross from
Friends, you know, like you can

258
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,360
see he's structured, organized,
a very good student, follows the

259
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,080
rules, but he's a lot more
sensitive.

260
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,400
He's a lot more.
Not to say the stags aren't

261
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,680
sensitive, but they're bears
don't have this feeling that

262
00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:36,760
they have to be tough.
And obviously Ross and friends

263
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,600
doesn't have that either.
He's, you know, he's a sensitive

264
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,680
guy.
So if you get a bear male with,

265
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,640
you know, stag male, like the
stag is definitely going to tell

266
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,400
that they're like, oh, you need
to toughen up.

267
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,840
You need to stop being such a
handsy, you know and which is

268
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,360
clearly not healthy.
So you mentioned that

269
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,920
observation is the way for
people to discover what they

270
00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,640
really are.
So are your personality types?

271
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,520
Is this taught to teachers so
they observe students or is

272
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,680
there a way for people to find
out their their type?

273
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,360
You know, The funny thing is so
my book, the power of

274
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,280
personality was written in the
way to give people that

275
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,920
knowledge because, you know,
obviously we I have a test on my

276
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,480
site and it's great.
People should take it.

277
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,600
But you know a lot to, you know,
should have my own test.

278
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,040
But like it's cookie cutter,
right.

279
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,800
All these tests are online.
They're cookie cutter.

280
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,040
You know, we take them and
they're fun.

281
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,240
I've taken buzzfeeds on what
Harry Potter house am I at the

282
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,280
end of the day, like we need to
like if you know the methodology

283
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,720
and I'll teach my teachers the
methodology, which I also

284
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,920
described in my book, then you
can start.

285
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,280
That will help you tap into your
observations, but also your own

286
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,160
intuition, right?
I think we've met like

287
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,320
thousands, more than thousands
of people in our own lives.

288
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,480
Like everybody has a memory,
like a databank of all these

289
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,000
people they've met.
And so ideally, my book helps

290
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,920
people tap into that memory bank
and go, Oh, no wonder why this

291
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,520
person was doing this.
And I didn't really agree with

292
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,800
it.
You know, it starts, you start

293
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,960
to realize, oh, there wasn't
anything wrong with that person.

294
00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,480
It was just that you guys were
different.

295
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,480
And you know, I teach my
teachers that so they could also

296
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,320
know what their type was so that
they wouldn't, they could

297
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,280
understand their own bias so
that they wouldn't push that on

298
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,080
their student.
Gotcha, so understanding your

299
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,960
personality type can really help
a man kind of stop comparing

300
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,560
himself to others or saying I
should be like that guy or they

301
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:17,920
should be like me, that sort of
stuff.

302
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,920
Oh, yeah, for sure.
And obviously as men, you're

303
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,440
told, you know, from when you're
a boy, you're like you you

304
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,560
scrape your knee and someone
says and you start crying and

305
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,080
someone says, oh, stop crying,
toughen up.

306
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,560
You know, and girls get on the
flip side, right?

307
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:32,520
They scrape their knee and
everyone's like I said, are you

308
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,640
OK?
You know, and I think parents do

309
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,280
that.
And I would say just parents,

310
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,120
but just adults do that in a way
where we don't even realize it.

311
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,920
And I think that, you know, when
I was working with teachers, you

312
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,720
think teachers obviously study
these kinds of things at school

313
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,680
and they work with kids.
And even they were making so

314
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,600
many assumptions about stuff
where we have teachers go, oh,

315
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,440
but that's how girls are like,
right.

316
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,680
And I'm like, that's how some
are.

317
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,840
But you have to remember you're
just pushing this social

318
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,040
programming on them and
especially the boys, too.

319
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,600
You're you're preaching the
social programming when your own

320
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,560
experience should tell you that
you've met several men who were

321
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:11,160
not as quote UN quote, tough as
they should be or were told to

322
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,040
be.
And clearly it was OK, It was

323
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,480
healthy for them to be that way,
right?

324
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,920
So yeah, it was.
It's basically identifying

325
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,320
biases.
And you say never send a Peacock

326
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,160
to do a pandas job.
Can you unpack that?

327
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,560
That was, oh, you know, I was, I
didn't say that.

328
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,600
My friend actually who wrote a
great blurb, that's the same

329
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,400
friend actually who writes for
this show that's on Apple TV

330
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,320
called Mythic Quest.
And if anyone's seen Mythic

331
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,880
Quest, it's a great show.
But specifically, if you're only

332
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,320
watch one episode, watch there's
a season 2 episode where it's a

333
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,080
bottle episode where they're all
taking a test to figure out what

334
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,000
animal they are.
And that's me.

335
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,280
That's my stuff.
And you know how you'd mentioned

336
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,680
chipmunk and how you're trying
to get lion?

337
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,080
That's the actual joke in the
show is that a guy gets like a

338
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,240
mouse or something.
He's like, oh, Dang it, a mouse.

339
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,480
Like that's the no, he gets a a
lion or a wolf and he's so proud

340
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,880
of it.
And then he realizes he did the

341
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,320
test exactly the opposite.
And then he retakes it and he

342
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,880
gets a mouse.
You know, I don't have a mouse

343
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,560
or a lion in my personality
testing.

344
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,160
But yeah, like, oh, when I so
when she wrote that never sent a

345
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,400
Peacock to do panda job.
It's really just, you know, I, I

346
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,040
hate to say that certain
personality types are naturally

347
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,440
good at stuff because I think
people get too involved in that.

348
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,160
They're like, oh, I want to see
what personality type is so I

349
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,440
can know what I'm good at.
Like, well, it's not going to

350
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,040
tell you what you're good at.
It's going to tell you what you

351
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,840
genuinely will like doing more.
And I feel like when we like

352
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,520
doing something more, we
practice it.

353
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,520
We just do it over and over
again and then we eventually get

354
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,840
good at it.
So I would say that Peacocks are

355
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,680
very, very good and enjoy being
in the spotlight and saying me,

356
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,600
me, look at me.
And they're so performative.

357
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,880
And that's not everybody, right?
Like, you know how they say

358
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,160
public speaking is a big fear of
like, is like people's biggest

359
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,320
fear?
Well, not for Peacocks.

360
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:48,840
They're like, this isn't a fear
of mine.

361
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,720
Yeah, put me up on stage, Right.
However, PANDAS are a lot more

362
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,280
like internal.
They're a lot more what you

363
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,920
think of as your natural
counselors or psychologists and

364
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,680
therapists.
They're better listeners than

365
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,800
anything else, probably the best
listener of all the types.

366
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,560
So of course, why would you ever
want to Peacock to do that kind

367
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,040
of job, right?
They're be like, no, no, that's

368
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,360
great what you're saying, but
let me tell you my whole life

369
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,560
story, right.
So it's really just the great

370
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,080
thing about finding out what you
really love doing is that you

371
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,200
practice more and then you can
kind of find your niche.

372
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,680
What does it look like for a man
who's living out of alignment

373
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,160
with his natural personality?
Well, lots of different things.

374
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,240
You know, it could, it could
manifest in a lot of different

375
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,160
ways.
I often found, especially with

376
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:33,080
young, young men or boys, you'd
say it's a lot of introversion,

377
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,880
for lack of a better term.
I said, I don't believe in

378
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,720
introversion, but that's how it
manifests itself, right?

379
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,840
Like it's just closed off, not
open, not opening up.

380
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,120
And also like, and I, it could
be for a variety of reasons.

381
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,600
Generally it's shame, right?
If you feel, if you have certain

382
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,480
feelings in any given way, like
if you want to express your

383
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,840
feelings and you're being told
not to and you're being told

384
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,080
that even if someone doesn't say
you're the feeling is wrong, if

385
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,320
you someone just says, oh,
expressing that feeling is

386
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,520
wrong, they don't have to say
there's something wrong with

387
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,040
you, but that's exactly how
you're going to feel.

388
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:03,720
And you're like, oh, I feel this
way.

389
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,240
And you're saying that me
expressing that is bad.

390
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,079
Then let me just put, you know,
where does that naturally lead

391
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:09,240
to?
Right.

392
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,880
So generally it's going to be,
yeah.

393
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,200
I'd say I saw a lot of young
boys who just be, would be

394
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,359
really closed off and just
hateful, especially the parents,

395
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,240
which is ironic because these
are the parents who are telling

396
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,119
them these like trying to
program this way generally.

397
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,160
Yeah, that's generally how it
manifests itself.

398
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,560
Clearly not a healthy way to
live your life.

399
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,800
And in your experience in
education and and beyond, what

400
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:36,120
do you see as, or is there one
primary factor that tells boys

401
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,040
how they should act?
Is it peers?

402
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,840
Is it parents?
Is it school?

403
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,760
Something else?
I, I think it's like everything

404
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,440
and I know that's like a, that
is such a cop out, but you know,

405
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,600
and I hate to keep saying social
media or I don't know, I haven't

406
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,760
said it yet, but I know a lot of
people say social media.

407
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,280
I do think social media is less
impactful on boys than it is on

408
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,240
girls for sure.
So in that way, boys get it a

409
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,000
little better, right?
Like, but it's still, it's still

410
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:03,920
hits.
Like, you know, they see social

411
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,040
media, they see the well,
they're told, oh, well, you

412
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,000
should have this really
attractive woman as your mate,

413
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,560
you know, as your spouse and
marry her.

414
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,040
And you have to do all these
things to get that.

415
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,600
And boys are told, oh, well, you
got to be tough.

416
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,640
You got to get a great job.
You have to be, yeah, super

417
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,520
successful, you know, and and I
think they get that from social

418
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,240
media is like the superficial
way.

419
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,640
But they also get that from
their parents too, right.

420
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,920
Like, I think a lot of parents
tell their kids like, the first

421
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,000
thing a boy says is like, I love
math.

422
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,760
Oh, oh, no.
They say I like adding, you

423
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,760
know, when they're like 2 years
or four years old, five years.

424
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,040
I love to add and subtract.
OK, great.

425
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,000
Science software engineer or
doctor, you know, you like

426
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,600
science.
Oh, doctor, you know, and it's

427
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,320
like, wow.
Like you do, We need to push

428
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,160
them into these things so
quickly where we can't just let

429
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,840
them discover it on their own.
Have you taken the personality

430
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,560
types into relationships?
Like do you see relationship

431
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,880
mismatches based on the animal
types?

432
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:57,920
Yeah, that's going to be my next
book.

433
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,520
I didn't have enough time in the
first book to write that, but I

434
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,280
do want that to be my next book
because, you know, I've had

435
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,520
talks at like colleges and I've
had talks at Hulu, you know,

436
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,480
and, and like basically work
environments.

437
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,840
And the first question I always
get asked, or at least the

438
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,440
second question afterwards will
no matter the circumstance or

439
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,480
scenario, will always be OK.
So this is great.

440
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,040
And I do want to be more
productive in my life, but who

441
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,600
should I be hooking up with?
Like that's the first question,

442
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,680
right?
And so I would say, I, I always

443
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,440
say the safe approach, which is
I don't believe in soulmates.

444
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,240
I don't believe like there's
perfect matches.

445
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,840
I think we can get along and be
in a relationship and, and a

446
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,120
healthy relationship with any
personality type.

447
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,080
But you have to accept that
based on the personality types,

448
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,320
there's going to be natural
attraction, there's going to be

449
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,120
natural attraction and a natural
conflict.

450
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,360
And you have to be OK with that
without changing them.

451
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:51,240
Because if you started trying to
change your partner, then that's

452
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,720
a problem.
So like, let's just say you're a

453
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,600
more structured, responsible
person and you tend, you tend to

454
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,120
be attracted to someone who's
more sontaneous and flexible.

455
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,520
That's just a natural thing that
I've found in my experience,

456
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,920
people will go towards their
opposite, right?

457
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,600
Not opposite in every regard.
But opposite in some of those

458
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,880
like modus operandi things,
that's OK to be attracted to

459
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,480
that person, but don't try to
change them when you're in that

460
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,560
relationship because of that.
What's the point that that's the

461
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,720
reason why you're attracted to
them?

462
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,040
Why would you try to change
them?

463
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,360
But I find that that's the case
too.

464
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,840
I see that all the time.
In my experience, people like

465
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,880
being attracted to one thing and
then once they're in a

466
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,240
relationship trying to change
that, like you just have to

467
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,880
accept your partner is going to
be who they are and then you'll

468
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,760
have a healthy match.
That being said, I will say that

469
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,400
there are certain personalities
that do generally are attracted

470
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,240
and get along and are healthier
together than others.

471
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,720
And so would it be rare for the
same personality types to be in

472
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,440
relationship together?
That I would say that is really

473
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,320
rare.
The exact same like animal type

474
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,200
is rare because they will
definitely do.

475
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,360
Let's say you get 2 stags
together and you know stags make

476
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,240
up about 1213%.
So you know that's the best

477
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,840
chance you're going to get is
those two together.

478
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,720
I, I think that would be pretty
difficult actually, because they

479
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,920
would, because it's almost like
redundancy, right?

480
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,320
They'd be like, oh, wait, so I'm
bringing this.

481
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,880
And then you just start arguing
about who's better in those

482
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,280
things that you love.
And I think that would be recipe

483
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,480
for disaster.
So you are also a writing and

484
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,800
life coach.
How closely do you see animal

485
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,280
types in creative expression
aligned?

486
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,000
I love using it for creative
expression, just that's how I

487
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,840
write my characters.
So I got my background.

488
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,960
Actual academic background is in
screen writing.

489
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,600
That's why I went to school for.
SO, you know, you learn about

490
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,840
archetypes and what characters
and their motivations and how to

491
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,520
make you know.
And obviously, as you were

492
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,040
mentioning before, about two
people of the exact same type

493
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,840
being together, you never have
that in a story, right?

494
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,840
Because you'd have two.
That'd be too redundant.

495
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,560
You need to have this type
bouncing off of this type so we

496
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,680
can learn about both.
And also both types can grow.

497
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,840
And that's probably something I
didn't mention before when I was

498
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,600
talking about relationships.
I do think the best

499
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,400
relationship, the personality
type matches are the ones that

500
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,440
are the same enough where they
can communicate with each other,

501
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,200
but different enough where each
one can grow because I think we

502
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,320
only grow being with someone
who's a little different or

503
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,440
challenges us rather.
So for movies and stories, it's

504
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,280
the same thing.
And I teach my students out as

505
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,480
well because I teach writing is
that no, you got to have these

506
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,400
different personalities bouncing
off of each other.

507
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,440
And so I love to do that.
Like people say, oh, what Harry

508
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,200
Potter character am I?
You know, I have that.

509
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,920
I have tests like that on my
website or articles like that on

510
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,440
my website.
People wanted there's a test

511
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,800
that can tell you what Game of
Thrones character you are.

512
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,680
And people love that.
And I love it too because it's

513
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,600
fun.
But also that's kind of the best

514
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,720
way to introduce personality
typing to people is through

515
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,920
characters because they've seen
it.

516
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,920
They know the character, the
characters written in a way

517
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,640
where they're not hiding
themselves.

518
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,160
Like the writer's like, no, this
character's like this.

519
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,120
How do I express that?
Right.

520
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:48,320
So with real people, it's harder
to type because real people

521
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,360
hide, you know, that mean that's
the whole point.

522
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:51,800
People hide their emotions,
especially men.

523
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,520
They don't want to, they don't
want to be vulnerable.

524
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,640
Whereas, you know, characters
are there for us to watch.

525
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,840
So I use that quite a bit.
Do you have any advice for how

526
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,440
men can preserve their true and
authentic voice in a world

527
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,720
that's constantly telling them
how they should be?

528
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,920
First, you got to find your
voice 1st and that's a large,

529
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,240
large step.
You know, that's not like an

530
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,560
easy step.
Like I think I always, I think

531
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,960
Miss Einstein's always misquoted
as saying like you got to, if

532
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,440
you want to solve a problem, you
got to spend 90% of your time

533
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,960
figuring out the problem and
then 10% of your time figuring

534
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,760
out how to solve it.
But I do love that idea of like,

535
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,960
that's really the most
important.

536
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,760
Who are you?
Like, so if I would just tell

537
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,400
every man or woman, but men
specifically in this case, like

538
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,840
figure out what you are like.
And it doesn't mean, look, it's

539
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,160
not, I'm not saying you
shouldn't be tough.

540
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,440
I'm saying you should start
reanalyzing what it means to be

541
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,760
tough and to be strong and to be
a man, right?

542
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,280
And in that case, obviously,
clearly you are a man if you are

543
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:50,680
a man, if you, that's how you
identify.

544
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,040
So start figuring out what it is
that you want out of life.

545
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,360
And that is a process.
And once you figure that out,

546
00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:01,440
then you can start kind of like
pushing away the noise and you

547
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,240
start realizing, oh, that was
just someone, So what someone

548
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,760
told me.
And I think it's a lot harder.

549
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,440
The one thing I would say,
sorry, there's a long answer,

550
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,840
but figure out what yourself,
what you are, but also your

551
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,960
parents.
Because I think parents often

552
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,240
have such an impact on who we
think we should be that I think

553
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,800
that's super important.
So then once you know what your

554
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,120
parents are, it's just a lot
easier for you to understand why

555
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,880
they were telling you the things
they were.

556
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,760
Because sometimes it almost
feels like rejection when you're

557
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,520
saying, no, my parents told me
this, and I don't want to be

558
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,320
that way.
And rejection can be a negative

559
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,360
thing, but if you just
understand what they are, you're

560
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:31,920
not rejecting them.
You're saying like, oh, they

561
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,320
weren't wrong.
Whatever they're saying was

562
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,320
right for them, it just wasn't
right for me, and I think that

563
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,640
will help people accept it more.
So could someone could I take

564
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,920
the test for my parents or would
only be accurate if they took

565
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,920
it?
That's, you know, I actually

566
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,000
sometimes tell people,
especially when people are not

567
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,360
very self aware to have someone
else take the test, you know,

568
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:57,560
like, cuz I'm always like, like
someone told me someone got AI

569
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,280
asked them what they got in the
test the other day and they're

570
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,160
like, oh, I got an owl and I was
just like, you're not an owl.

571
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,040
And she's like, why would you
say that?

572
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,440
I'm like, cuz owls are like soft
spoken and they, I mean, how,

573
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,080
how many times have you played
chess?

574
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,000
And she's like, I never, I
wouldn't play chess.

575
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,200
I'm like, I always love chess,
you know, like you're a Peacock

576
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,520
And she's like, why would you
say I'm a Peacock?

577
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,840
Because you're loud And she's
like, I'm not loud and she's

578
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,760
like yelling at me, right?
I'm like, and she's like, OK, I

579
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,800
am loud, but that's not all of
what I am.

580
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,200
I'm like, no, no, I'm not saying
that's all what you are, but

581
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,360
it's the easiest thing for me to
see it at face value.

582
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,080
And so I do think I would
recommend people to have, if

583
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,880
they haven't, if they're having
trouble, I would recommend

584
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,640
people to have their friends
take the test for them.

585
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,760
And so vice versa, you could
take the test for your parents

586
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,200
and you know you might be more
accurate than they might be

587
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,960
depending on how self aware your
parents are.

588
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,320
Interesting.
Is there an ideal way to grow

589
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,560
that doesn't try to overwrite
your personality or animal type?

590
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,480
That doesn't try to over like
meaning meaning like change your

591
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,960
personality.
Type or yeah, if if you see your

592
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,520
type and perhaps you don't like
it or your job or somebody

593
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,920
saying you should be better at
these things that just aren't

594
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,600
your skill set, should you try
to be better at those things or

595
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,840
or not?
That's a great question and I'll

596
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,600
be honest, it's up to you.
I always say find your anchor

597
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,600
1st and that's find your
personality first so that way

598
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,320
you don't lose yourself.
And let's say you're in a job

599
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,720
that maybe the skill sets aren't
necessarily natural for you, but

600
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,240
you do like your job and you
identify with it.

601
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,520
Then I that's when you, we can
grow by borrowing from other

602
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,480
types like, oh, like, for
example, I, you know, like I got

603
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,880
my backgrounds in screen
writing.

604
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,760
I'm still writing scripts and a
lot of screen writing is a lot

605
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,200
of marketing, right?
How do you sell?

606
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,520
How do you pitch?
Not exactly a strength of my

607
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,640
personality type that, but the
writing aspect is.

608
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,800
So how do you balance that?
How do you become successful?

609
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,320
You have to like figure out how
to pitch yourself, how to sell

610
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,600
this stuff, right?
And that's not necessarily my

611
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,680
skill set, but it is the skill
set of a fox.

612
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:58,280
So it's kind of cool to read up
on the fox and go, OK, what do

613
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,120
they do?
How do they look at the world

614
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,440
differently?
And I need to kind of at least

615
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,560
borrow that a little bit so I
can be kind of better at this

616
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,320
and then improve this skill set.
But I always recommend find your

617
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,280
anchor first because I
definitely don't want people.

618
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,960
I think the dangerous people
start trying to become something

619
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,280
they're not, right?
I don't want that.

620
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,040
You should love yourself because
you yourself, whatever your

621
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,480
personality type has, even if it
hasn't shown itself yet, your

622
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,760
personality type has a lot of
strengths that you have to offer

623
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,440
the world.
So definitely recommend.

624
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,720
I'm working on those first and
growing to be the best version

625
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,840
of yourself.
Cool, so if I have awareness and

626
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:37,200
know my anchor and study other
types, it could be a shark that

627
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,880
needs to act like a fox for an
afternoon and do it.

628
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,680
Oh, yeah, for sure.
You can borrow those types.

629
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,920
As long as you're aware you can
go like, Oh yeah, this is what

630
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,440
they do, you know, and then you
have friends, right?

631
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,640
You have not your, I'm sure your
friends aren't different

632
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,320
personality types or aren't the
same personality type as you

633
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,600
are, at least not all of them.
So you can say, oh, how do you

634
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,640
do this?
Like how do you get things done?

635
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,360
My weakness, for example, my
weakness for my personality type

636
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:00,600
is I start a lot of things.
I don't always finish them.

637
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,800
So I just asked a friend who's
very good at finishing things to

638
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,840
say like, what do you exactly do
you do during your day?

639
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,600
He's like, well, I make a
checklist and I do this.

640
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,560
And then he had all these things
and I didn't mean like I took

641
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,200
all of them.
I just took the ones where I'm,

642
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,520
I think I can do that one.
I can't do those things.

643
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,520
Those are really unnatural, but
I think I can do that one, and I

644
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,200
did and it really helped.
Is there one particular moment

645
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:26,000
in your life when understanding
your type really changed how you

646
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,680
saw yourself and and change the
situation for you?

647
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,240
I can't think of a specific
moment, but I will say, like in

648
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,000
a general, like when I was
younger, my type is 1, where

649
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,880
it's not necessarily going to
value the things that your

650
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,480
teachers tell you to do.
And, you know, especially in

651
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,480
elementary school, do teachers
tell you, like, you got to write

652
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,200
your homework down.
You got to, like, make sure you

653
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,160
have it in an organizer, You
have it like in a little folder

654
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,840
and write.
Yeah, like, have everything down

655
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,160
and structured.
And at a certain point, I think

656
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,880
understanding about personality,
I realized, you know what,

657
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,480
That's just not the way I do
things.

658
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,520
And I cannot, no matter how much
I try, like I would do the

659
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,200
notebook and try the organizer
every year of grade school, you

660
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,960
know, And after three or four
days, I ended up reverting to

661
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,920
just taking my homework and
shoving it in my backpack.

662
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,040
You know, like it's like
throwing in, maybe I'd turn in,

663
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,120
maybe I wouldn't.
But I think at that moment I

664
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,680
realized, you know, this is not
natural for me, like doing this

665
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,600
organizer thing and I got to do
my own thing.

666
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,680
And, and you know, I'm clearly,
I was pretty successful at it in

667
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,760
grade school.
So I was like, clearly I'm doing

668
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,840
something right.
So maybe I just got to lean into

669
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,480
my strengths versus trying to
fight it.

670
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,280
So you've mentioned Harry Potter
a number of times.

671
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,560
So what animal types are the
main characters from the Harry

672
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,280
Potter series?
Oh, so we have Harry, who is

673
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,560
this stereotypical hero.
And by stereotypical I mean like

674
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,240
the Joseph Campbell archetype
hero, and that would be the

675
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,560
humpback whale.
And so humpback whales are in

676
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,040
the personality pack of a
shaman.

677
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,920
And a shaman there, as I
mentioned, gathers value safety

678
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,800
and security.
Shamans value self knowledge.

679
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,480
So that's why the Campbell hero
is always that humpback whale

680
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,560
ish.
They're always seeking their

681
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,520
identity.
And you know, the Campbell hero

682
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,480
always doesn't really have
parent parents or like unknown

683
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,880
parentage.
So of course, if you don't know

684
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,440
your parents, then natural
instinct is like, who am I?

685
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,720
What makes me who I am?
So Harry is definitely that

686
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,920
humpback whale type.
Another humpback whale would be

687
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,640
like Luke Skywalker, right?
Obviously another one unknown

688
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,240
parentage.
And Hermione is a killer whale.

689
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,760
So I'm going to say a couple
because they're all and it shows

690
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,160
you like even in writing, it
helps to have different types

691
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,440
because each one of the Harry
Potter main Harry Potter

692
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,040
characters is in a totally
different personality pack.

693
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,040
And that makes sense because not
only can their differences

694
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,520
conflict and bounce off of each
other and they can grow as

695
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,200
friends, but their skill sets
work in terms of telling the

696
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,520
story right.
So Hermione is a Smith, Smith's

697
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,320
value information and she's a
killer whale type of that.

698
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,640
So they're like the hard
driving, like information is

699
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,440
key, but information to get
things done is most important.

700
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,880
And of course, Hermione was the
1st place she goes to when she

701
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,520
needs to get something done or
figure something out.

702
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,200
Go to the library, right?
She's the one who makes all the

703
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,280
plans, right?
Harry is the one who executes

704
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,520
the plans, but she's the one who
has the plans and is like the

705
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,400
driving force behind most of
what they do.

706
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,280
Harry's kind of just along for
the ride sometimes.

707
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,360
So yeah.
So killer whales.

708
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,720
Another example of a killer
whale would be like, for anyone

709
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,880
who knows Shakespeare and
Macbeth was a killer whale.

710
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,600
They tend to be very ambitious.
Tywin Lannister from Game of

711
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,720
Thrones.
And then Ron would be an

712
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,680
elephant.
So elephants are gatherers, as I

713
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,840
mentioned before, gathers like
safety and security.

714
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,920
And an elephant specifically
gets their safety and security

715
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,040
from being close to their
family.

716
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,360
They're like the most family
oriented.

717
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,560
And you know, what's the first
thing we realize about Ron?

718
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,720
He's all about family.
He's got a big, huge family and

719
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,040
he's very close to them.
And he gives Harry that

720
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,960
groundedness that Harry lacks.
So you mentioned that in at

721
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,880
least this story the the group
of friends are in different

722
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,280
animal type packs.
Is that all normal in real life?

723
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,840
You know, it depends.
I, I think it just depends on

724
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,920
the person because if you're
doing, if the friends you make

725
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,520
are based on activities,
specific activities, you're

726
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,320
probably going to be similar
packs.

727
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,040
If the friends you make, like
school, of course, is more

728
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,760
general, you're going to have a
whole bunch of people, right.

729
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,120
Like I play in a pickup
basketball league and my

730
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,000
personality is not one that
necessarily would be in that.

731
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,360
And almost everybody is from one
specific pack.

732
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,240
They're all hunters and hunters
love excitement.

733
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,240
They love, you know, visceral,
like seeing everything, feeling

734
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,640
everything.
So that's they would be the most

735
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,360
likely to be in a pickup
basketball league versus, you

736
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,720
know, the shaman who just wants
to navel gaze and figure out who

737
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,720
they are.
But if in school, if you make

738
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,840
friends, I I think we naturally
will go to dots of different

739
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,200
people because it's like we do
romantically.

740
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,360
We we see differences and we're
like attracted to them because

741
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,600
like, oh, OK, that's that's kind
of cool.

742
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,880
That person's a little different
than me.

743
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,760
Let me talk to.
Them and Eric, is there a

744
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,160
particular way you hope people
feel after reading The Power of

745
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,440
Personality?
Oh, people.

746
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,520
Feel more empowered for lack for
back of better work.

747
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,920
And you know, power's in there.
But that's really what I love

748
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,360
about, you know, when I work
with kids all the time, like I

749
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,360
love that.
My favorite part is when they're

750
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,920
like, oh, they their eyes start
opening up and realizing I am

751
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,400
different than what I've been
told that I should be.

752
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,200
And that's OK.
And there's power in that.

753
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,600
Like I had a student who she
kept telling me she wanted to be

754
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,440
a vet and I was like, you're not
going to be a vet.

755
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,080
And she's like, why are you
telling me I'm not going to be a

756
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,160
vet?
You know, because I'm sure if

757
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,880
someone says you're going to be
a vet or they want to be a vet

758
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,000
or a doctor or something, most
adults are like, yeah, that's

759
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:23,720
great.
Go for that.

760
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,560
That sounds good.
You know, I'm like, because you

761
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,720
don't even like school.
And she's like, wait, do vets

762
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,200
have to go to a lot of school?
I'm like, let me tell you, she

763
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,880
was in like, fifth grade at the
moment.

764
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,120
So I'm like, OK, let's go
through all the years, 6th

765
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,520
grade.
And I'm counting them all.

766
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,440
And I can just see the look of
horror on her face, right?

767
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,640
And then the next day she's
like, yeah, you know, I don't

768
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,640
think I want to be a vet.
And I'm like, that's OK.

769
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,480
I know what happened.
You told your grandma or your

770
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,560
mom that you like dogs and
they're immediately vet.

771
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,000
And she's like, yeah, I did.
That's what happened.

772
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,400
I told my grandma and she's like
vet and you don't even like

773
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,240
cats.
And she's like, wait, does a

774
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,720
veterinarian have to work on
cats?

775
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,600
And I'm like, yeah, you know,
probably if you work on dogs,

776
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,800
you can work on cats.
But the beauty of that was she's

777
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,320
like, oh, so I'm a dolphin.
What what are dolphins good at?

778
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:03,840
I'm like, well, I'm not going to
say you're naturally good at,

779
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,200
but these things are actually
already do see that you're good

780
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,199
at.
Dolphins are really commutative.

781
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,360
They're they have no problem
getting in front of people.

782
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,040
They when they believe in
something, they have no problem

783
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,080
getting a lot of people together
to work towards that objective.

784
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,719
You know, so maybe like you
could be in and she was in

785
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,800
student politics, like maybe you
get into politics, maybe you

786
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,880
could be a community organizer,
maybe you could join a

787
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,760
nonprofit.
But either way, you're going to

788
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,320
be leading people and very human
focused.

789
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,080
And she liked that.
And that, that's what I hope

790
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,400
people get out of reading the
book, is like realizing that

791
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,159
maybe they aren't what they
thought they were be and they're

792
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,679
actually something even better.
Awesome, and where can people go

793
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,840
to learn more about the book and
all of your work?

794
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,840
You can buy the book if you want
on Amazon if you want to give

795
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,000
Jeff Bezos your money, or you
can go it's like Barnes and

796
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,080
Noble, any big box store order
from there or your local

797
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,159
bookstore.
If you want to take the test,

798
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:57,080
you can go on utopiaproject.com
and that's YOU like YouTube, so

799
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,440
utopiaproject.com.
And if you want to learn more

800
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,560
about me, I know this is weird
because there's another website

801
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,800
you got to go to,
projectutopia.com.

802
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,080
And the only reason for that is
one of the websites was better

803
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,320
at creating a test.
So yeah, that's where you can

804
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,360
find me or go on Instagram.
I'm not huge in social media,

805
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,840
but yeah, go on Instagram and
find me at the Power

806
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,680
Personality, which is the name
of the book as well.

807
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,120
And finally, Eric, what's one
thing you wish more men knew?

808
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,640
Oh.
That's that's I mean, it's just

809
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,080
the purpose of the show.
The real that a real man is

810
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,080
might not necessarily be what
you've been told.

811
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,680
Now, of course, that leads to
what is the question, what is

812
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,480
what a real man?
But then you got to find that

813
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,200
out for yourself, you know?
Beautiful.

814
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,280
Love that answer.
Well, thanks so much for your

815
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,440
time.
Thanks for all of your work and

816
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,120
your sharing.
And I know I'm going to go take

817
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,360
some tests this afternoon.
Tell me what you get.

818
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,600
Let me or let me let me guess
and then tell me if I'm right.

819
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,280
Or not.
What do you think?

820
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,080
What do you expect?
You know, like, I got this from

821
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,440
the chipmunk, you know, like you
have a lot of energy.

822
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,520
And so let me ask you one
question.

823
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,480
Would you, do you prefer finding
out more about like, like things

824
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,840
in life, like facts, information
about stuff, or do you find that

825
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,800
you tend to search more about
things about yourself, probably

826
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,560
myself.
You might be a baboon.

827
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,840
That would be my guess.
A baboon which kind of has

828
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,560
chipmunk energy, I guess, you
know, But they're very like,

829
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,960
they're shaman family.
Yeah, there's the example.

830
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,560
They're they're from the shaman
pack and they they seek out self

831
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,400
knowledge.
But unlike let's say the panda,

832
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,120
which is also shaman, baboons
are a lot more commutative.

833
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,120
They're like more outward,
they're much more like an

834
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,560
advocate for things they believe
in.

835
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:32,440
And they really try to
communicate that and push that

836
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:33,960
forward.
And they're constantly wanting

837
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,920
to figure out more things about
themselves.

838
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,360
It also help other people figure
out things about themselves.

839
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:39,680
OK, well, that does sound like
me.

840
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,040
That part.
All right, cool.

841
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,640
I will let you know.
Thanks again to Eric and

842
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,400
everyone for listening.
You know, what I really

843
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,760
appreciate about his work is
that it doesn't ask.

844
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,040
People are meant to fix
themselves and ask them to

845
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,320
understand themselves.
And that's a very different

846
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,240
starting point.
If you're listening and

847
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,840
something clicked today, maybe
you recognize yourself in one of

848
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,200
the archetypes or realize you've
been forcing yourself into a

849
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,720
role that doesn't fit.
Take a moment with that.

850
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,480
Awareness is where all change
begins.

851
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,160
You can learn more about Eric,
his work, his book, the Power

852
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,240
Personality, and the show notes.
If this episode resonated, I

853
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,960
want you to join me in my free
online men's community,

854
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,840
Authentic AF, where men have
real conversations about

855
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,160
identity, emotions, purpose,
relationships, and what it

856
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,920
actually means to live aligned
with your true self.

857
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,880
You can join us at
realmenfeel.org/group and until

858
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,920
next time, be good to yourself.