Unlocking Emotional Literacy for Men: Barriers, Foundations, and Attachments

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That's part of the human
experience.

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Men should totally allow
themselves to experience the

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more vulnerable rages of those
emotions without change, without

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inner criticism and supporting
each other with with kindness.

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Because I think a lot of times
here is reinforced ideas around

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what's allowed and what's even
allowed.

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Hello and welcome to Real Men
Feel.

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I'm your host, author, coach and
healer Andy Grant.

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Visit theandygrant.com to learn
more about me.

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On this show, we have
conversations that most men are

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not having, but that all men and
the women who love them can

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benefit from.
Today we're delving into

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emotional literacy, the
essential skill of recognizing,

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naming, and navigating your
emotions.

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My guest is Alexandra Velez,
creator of Secure School, a

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neuroscience backed program that
helps people shift towards a

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more secure attachment style,
one skill at a time.

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She's here to share how
emotional literacy is the

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foundation for emotional
intelligence and why no one

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should have to silently struggle
with mental health.

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And if you're craving more real
connection with other men, check

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out Authentic AF, my free online
community at

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realmenfeel.org/group.
There is no need to suffer in

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silence.
Let's do it.

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Hello Alexandra, and welcome to
Real Men Feel.

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Thank you so much, Andy.
I'm so happy to be here today.

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You describe emotional literacy
as a prerequisite for emotional

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intelligence.
Can you explain the difference

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between the two?
So emotional literacy focuses on

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the ability to be able to
identify emotion, expressed

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emotion.
And emotional intelligence feels

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like it leads on that other
foundation because it takes it

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to the next level by helping
people to apply emotional

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literacy in a variety of
different contexts and

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environment.
So it's to move with greater

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skill and precision with
emotions.

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Yeah, this is what it makes
sense.

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So do do some people try to just
jump into intelligence without

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being able to know what emotions
are to begin with?

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Absolutely.
You know, sometimes, you know,

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people, I feel like they're just
going through the motion of what

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normal life is.
And sometimes after going

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through these interactions, they
might think themselves, oh, that

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didn't go as I had planned.
And, you know, they may lack the

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certain language around their
emotions.

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Like, oh, I was feeling anxious
at the time or actually I was

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still under the weight of
something heavier earlier today.

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That to be able to connect the
thoughts between how they're

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feeling and how they show up in
the context of relationships.

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And so they may lack language
around what they're feeling or

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lack the the vulnerability and
safety particulate how they're

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feeling because they might be
self censoring so that they

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manage perception during an
interaction.

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So ultimately people might not
feel fully vulnerable and safe

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enough to express themselves and
they may bypass emotional

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literacy and just go straight
into judgment or conclusion.

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So it's like that didn't go as
planned or or make judgments

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about the other person of like
oh they're XYZ type of person if

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they did this to me.
So it's already more in the

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conclusion phase than the self
reflection phase.

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Got it, you.
So yeah.

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So if if I'm not aware of what's
going on within me, I could

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easily just start labeling and
blaming everybody around me.

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Exactly.
So what first drew drew you into

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studying emotional and
relational intelligence?

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I feel like so much of this
comes from the score of life and

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learning through painful trial
and error.

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And ultimately, I feel like the
human experience is so vast and

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complex.
It's a topic where there's

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infinite possibilities with
learning and understanding it.

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And so, you know, this just came
out of my personal passion.

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Over the course of ten years, I
read over more than 400 books on

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the topic of psychology and
personal development.

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And to say obsessed is probably
an understatement because I just

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find this topic so interesting.
But I think I was going on my

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own journey of figuring out, you
know, what have my life

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experiences been and how have
that they have to turn to just

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observing other relationship
dynamics unfold.

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So ultimately, I feel very
anxious about helping people

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shorten their learning curves
because I'm overreached.

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It's taken decades of 1000 years
to get to where I'm at today.

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And I'd love to help before
shorten their learning curve.

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The left they could beat are
beard and wider as result.

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Why do you think so many people
grow up without any sort of

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education around emotional
literacy?

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Well, for one thing, we don't
see it sometimes modeled in our

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home environments.
So some of us have inherited

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emotionally unintelligent
parents or and mostly immature

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parents.
So we don't have that

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psychological privilege built
into our household where we grew

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up need to be behaviors modeled
for us.

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So we also see that all too
often we're handed gender norms

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and scripts around work
acceptable or unacceptable.

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It's just kind of like the early
stages of where emotional

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literacy starts to lag.
You know, I mean early age, many

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boys are ought to be silent or
suppress their emotion or to not

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really know that they're
impacted by the how they start

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to learn how to armor out into
how much manage when they feel

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hurt or stammered.
And there's a moment that I I

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distinctly remember it started
as something as like as ordinary

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as they have the grocery store.
I were in the checkout line

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about to pay for my persons.
And there was this, you know,

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father and son, in fact, the
lion also waiting to check out.

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And the little boy, he's been
like 3 or 4 years old, sweet and

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instant and tender.
And at the same time he's

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carried at the grocery store.
And, you know, he, he's kind of

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looking towards his father for
comfort, but his father, he's

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kind of feeling angry and
patient like his son is an

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inconvenience in that moment.
And I saw him grab him by his

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little arm and drag him to this
little register stand because

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the little boy was just being
uncooperative.

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And it's that little moment
where I thought it's

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heartbreaking to see this scene
unfold.

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But at the on the flip side, we
see that that little boy was

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starting to internalize certain
messages like his father, the

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person he loves and starts, but
also be the very person who

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beats him or is not a safe
person or actually penalize him

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for buying in public.
And it just shows that little

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boys, sometimes as early as
three or four years old, are

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already being handed stretch
around.

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You know, boys don't cry or, you
know, if you cry in public,

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you'll get whooped or stanked.
And it's kind of heartbreaking

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because, you know, there's so
many ways he could have handled

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that dynamic.
But in that moment, anger,

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impatience was kind of leading
the momentum of that specific

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scenario.
And you know, it just starts to

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cement ideas around concept of
what it means to be a fan that's

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ultimately stunt emotional
literacy later on.

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Ideally, what what would that
have farther done to really

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support his his son?
One of the things they could

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have done was just approach him
more on his level and attempt to

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explain to him in that moment
that even though he was upset

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about something, that they
wouldn't even walk together

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towards the register together
because they needed to check

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out.
And in just having a little bit

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of a moment of connection while
showing patience and talking to

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him in a soothing, reassuring
fashion.

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But have reversed the tears in
the 1st place by allowing him to

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feel pained, understood and
appreciated by his father just

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enough to suit him so that he
could cooperate willingly and

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not have to be dragged to the
register in a rather full

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fashion.
So for someone who's listening

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now as an adult and struggles to
name or express their own

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emotions, what are some
practical steps to move towards

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literacy?
One of the tools that I find to

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be so helpful is to have
something like an emotion reel.

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It's basically like a pie chart
and it has all of these

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different emotions.
It starts off with basic ones

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like beers, fat it's and other
emotions.

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And then it breaks it down into
secondary emotions and tertiary

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emotions.
And sometimes just having a

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visual reference helps you to go
deeper and then need your

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reactions like I'm really angry.
Well, if you if you drill down

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to a secondary level, that anger
might actually be something

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else.
And if you drill down to a third

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level, it might be something
else different.

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And so the more specific you
are, the more clear the problem

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and solution become.
And sometimes anger is just the

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primary motion.
It's a cover or a front.

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And if you peel back the layer,
you see, actually anger is the

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acceptable outward expression
and math badness.

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Sometimes being the four wheel
helps you see, OK, my primary

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motion might be this, but
actually I'm also doing this.

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And funny enough, I, I think
that's why I love the movie

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Inside Out and 1:00 and 2:00
because it, it just shows how so

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much of our human experience can
easily be a fusion of emotions.

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Or having a tool like an emotion
wheel can just help you to take

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it out of your head and put it
in visual format so you could

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start to label a name.
And that gives you clarity.

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And sometimes just validating
your alleged experience is a

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form of self soothing and it it
helps you to have a different

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degree of clarity of which to
solve problems.

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Yeah, I see the lot in a lot of
the the men that I coach that

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they're quick to name an
emotion.

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And it's like the one or two
emotions that were allowable as

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children.
So again, often for a minute

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it's anger.
But then, yeah, underneath that

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anger, what, what else are you
feeling?

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Or if if you could explore
deeper than that, or if you

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could imagine which started the
anger, what was there?

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And yeah, so that idea that
there's, there's the primary

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emotion, there's the emotion
we're able or willing to show,

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and then there's the truth.
Absolutely.

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How do you see a healthy
emotional literacy impacting

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people in their day-to-day
lives?

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Like where?
Where does it show up most?

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Well, because some of it, it's
kind of like a dual topic where

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on one level the emotional
literacy is happening

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internally, but it's also
happening externally.

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So it's twofold.
And internally it's just

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noticing your own feelings.
Like you go through the day,

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like let's say in the morning
routine, you feel like you're

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rushing through the actions
because you're just like

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furrying to get out the door to
make it on time to work.

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But then it could be all the
little interaction like meeting

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your Co worker in the morning
and just kind of like summing up

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your perception of how they're
doing.

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Like are they tired?
Are they angry?

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Are they feeling stressed and
just observing their emotions

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from the external perception?
It's a way of intern, you know,

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managing how you relate to that
that morning, you know, if

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they're sad, you might face, you
might check in.

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If they're feeling stressed, you
might ask them about what's

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going on.
And sometimes that just relates

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to how the interaction itself is
on full range.

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So it's it's internal and it's
external and it's infarcting the

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the emotions we're able to name
and express as we interact with

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others.
Now you do a lot of work with

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attachment styles.
Can you kind of unpack what

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attachment styles are and why
they're so important?

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Star basically, the vast
majority of us have basically

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been imprinted with how we
relate to others.

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And attachment theory basically
establishes that there are 4

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categories in which people
usually fall into.

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About 50% of the population is
under the umbrella of secure

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attachment.
This typically represents

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someone, if you're had grown up
with a lot of emotional

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intelligence in their household.
So they've seen this modelled

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through parents, caregivers and
other influential people and

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they've internalized these
ideas.

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So as they go forth into the
world, they're able to kind of

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like intuitively create healthy
relationships.

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They know how to express their
emotions.

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So they get checked boxes for
emotional literacy, emotional

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intelligence, and they're just
naturally able to not only have

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relationships but have
successful relationships, the

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kind that are happy, healthy,
and last many years.

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On the flip side, the other for
50% of the population have an

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insecure attachment style and
they usually fall into one of

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three buckets.
One could be anxious attachment,

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the other is fearful avoidance
and your next one is dismissive

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avoided.
So the anxious person typically

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has a lot of self limiting
beliefs around child.

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00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,280
They relate to others that are
all stemming from anxiety from a

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lot of times they're carrying
fears and securities wounds that

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make them more anxious in the
context of relationships than

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when we look at fearful
avoidance.

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They're like a hybrid of the
dismissive type and the anxious

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00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,200
type.
And usually these people have

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00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,200
had a lot of altered adversity
and maybe so common in their

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00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,200
history that make them a mixture
or fusion of anxious and

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00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,880
dismissive with dismissive
avoidance.

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What we often see in that
there's a fear around being in

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00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,200
relationships because they
associate it with having to be

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00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,840
vulnerable or you know, they
don't feel comfortable

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00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,680
expressing their emotion and
it's making avoidance often

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00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,240
struggle to have long term
healthy relationships because

248
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,320
you know, their emotional
conditioning are taught them

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00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,360
that casual relationships or
transactional relationships are

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00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,600
easier and better.
So these types typically

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00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,760
struggle with having successful
long term relationships because

252
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,360
of how they've been faked and
molded many times because of

253
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their early life experiences.
So is the attachment style that

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we create used the most growing
up?

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Is that our style for the rest
of our lives?

256
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,160
No, it's not.
All too often, like so many

257
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,080
things in life, you know, we can
improve for the better through

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00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,920
intentional information change
and fix and fee.

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00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,840
And so much of what we can
become ultimately is the

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00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,000
byproduct of intentional
efforts.

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00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,680
So once you have clarity on your
attachment style, you can start

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to see, OK, here are the
insecurities that are kind of

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00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,720
driving my perception and how I
interact with others and then

264
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,840
start to intentionally have
corrective experiences where you

265
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,760
can begin to upscale and close
those gaps.

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So, and let's imagine someone
should have three or four major

267
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,640
insecurities that get in the way
of those healthy relationships.

268
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,240
They can start to unpack that
and peel back the layers to see,

269
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,200
OK, this is a series of
experiences that have influenced

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00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,480
this insecurity.
Let's start to systematically

271
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,320
and methodically work through
them so that both insecurities

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00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,480
no longer define identity or
self perception.

273
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,720
And once those insecurities have
dialed down substantially, they

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don't have the same power and
grip as they need.

275
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,320
Chennai.
And then that in turn makes room

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00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,080
for healthier perception,
healthier behaviors which are

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00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,200
conducive for long term healthy
copy relationships.

278
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,680
So is that in an essence what
you're secure school is doing?

279
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,560
Oh, absolutely.
It's very much a process of

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00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:48,440
helping people to learn to that
are often missing because a lot

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00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,360
of us don't learn relational
intelligence growing up, right?

282
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,320
I think one of my my passions is
I would love to see emotional

283
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,880
intelligence and relational
intelligence taught K through 12

284
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:05,359
and and college, because all we
relate to others is an essential

285
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,800
part of our happiness.
And it's just one of those

286
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,440
topics that gets, you know,
undercharged and it just

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00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,640
produces natural output.
You know, if, if we applied the

288
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,400
logic to any other topic like
math or science or English, you

289
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,760
didn't have that in your
experience for 1520 years of

290
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,160
your life, you know, that
creates a, a natural gap.

291
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,880
But because emotional
intelligence, relational

292
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,360
intelligence are, are learnable
topics and skills that can be

293
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,640
formed.
It's just a matter of closing

294
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,120
the gap between what we don't
know and what we do know.

295
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,440
And by going through a
structured falsess, we're able

296
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,920
to not only learn, but apply and
then iterate and prove and so

297
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,120
that it's integrated into our
identity and not just a

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00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,240
fascinating fact.
We want to take that fun.

299
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,720
Alexandra, I know you have a
background in high tech.

300
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,040
I wonder how do you see
technology currently helping or

301
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,840
harming our collective emotional
literacy?

302
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,040
That is that a fascinating topic
because I have long felt that

303
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,960
psychology and technology
overlap and we we're trying to

304
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,800
see this in healthy and
unhealthy directions, right?

305
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,760
Like for for many of our our
cell phone, it's always prevent

306
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,000
arm's reach or there's always
that insatiable little bitch to

307
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,520
check our phones, whether it's
notifications or going back and

308
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,080
forth between acts we love to
years or on some level that

309
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,640
could be disruptive.
You know, or like so many things

310
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,720
in life, it's not a spectrum.
The overuse of technology is

311
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,400
harmful.
You know, it could impact self

312
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,800
esteem.
It could in progress through

313
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,640
absorbing vicarious experiences
because you know, all of this

314
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,680
information and sometimes be
hurtful just to Russian it.

315
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,320
It creates the important a need
to really know about like media

316
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,560
literacy to kind of monitor and
regulate what you watch and what

317
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,560
you don't watch.
So I think this most plays out,

318
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,080
I guess, for us in the context
of, you know, dating apps where

319
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,200
people are using dating apps in
hopes for finding a romantic

320
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,520
partner and these experiences
from death, crazy, a big stag

321
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,960
where some people experience
good results and some people

322
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,800
don't.
At the same time, when you look

323
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,320
at how dating apps are built,
they're definitely fine to

324
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,240
optimize for things that aren't
necessarily aligned with a

325
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,480
healthy relationship.
Naturally become a matter of how

326
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:42,480
we use the tool and also how the
person navigates those

327
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,680
experiences so that they're more
constructive and helpful.

328
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,480
So you shared that your grand
vision and hope for the world

329
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,480
was all of us being taught
emotional literacy in in

330
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,880
elementary school.
What would the world look like

331
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,240
if humans were taught, along
with reading and writing,

332
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,720
emotional literacy?
My hope is that it would

333
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,040
ultimately lead and less
heartbreak, less dysfunction,

334
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,080
healthy relationships in
general.

335
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,640
Because, you know, I think
sometimes after kids hit

336
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,240
puberty, they get curious and
they Start learning from their

337
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,920
peers and asking questions.
And sometimes they don't want to

338
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,000
ask their parents, but they're
asking their peers.

339
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,840
And it's kind of like the blind
reading the blind.

340
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,520
Not necessarily good
information, but what I envision

341
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,840
is people would just be
healthier and happier and they

342
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,960
would have to wait until their
mid 20s, mid 30s, mid 40s to

343
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:43,120
figure out, oh, here are the the
sadly avoidable heartbreak I

344
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,280
could have avoided had I just
known these things, what it

345
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,440
takes to create a healthy
relationship.

346
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,160
And because they just didn't
know any better.

347
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,560
They're they're just kind of
learning as they go through

348
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,560
trial and error.
You know, I think ultimately so

349
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,920
many of these we just read
heartbreak and suffering

350
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,440
selected ways.
You know, sometimes with certain

351
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,920
topics like math or science, you
can just objectively see, you

352
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,080
know, you know, 1 + 1 is true.
But what if we had the

353
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,840
equivalent of of emotional
intelligence in our curriculum

354
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,040
and classes so that people would
just fundamentally de

355
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,160
personalize some of the things
required?

356
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,880
You know, they can understand
things with depth and nuance.

357
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,440
And I think people will be
kinder to each other and wiser

358
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,160
too.
It's it's fascinating when you

359
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,960
look outside of the United
States, like in countries like

360
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,360
Denmark, sometimes kids get
multiple years of education

361
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,600
around empathy and surprise
survive.

362
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,000
The rate of bullying goes down,
too.

363
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,680
And when you think about how so
much of mental health is

364
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,640
impacted because peers are
boring or criticizing, you know,

365
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,200
that in itself can be helpful to
those middle school students or

366
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,160
high school students where kids
being mean to each other is

367
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,240
just, you know, kids being kids.
But naturally if they knew

368
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,640
better and generally had
different beliefs and values, I

369
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,320
think they would just behave
better and it would just be of a

370
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,520
more natural outcome.
Because cause of the fact if if

371
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,440
you understand emotional
intelligence, it might

372
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,680
constantly be affected, you do
better.

373
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,400
And if you do better, we'll add
cascading benefit to the

374
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,240
individual, but offer their
their sphere of influence.

375
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,920
Yeah, so it's really uneducated
kids being uneducated kids.

376
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,400
Absolutely.
And I kind of remember years

377
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,400
ago, I was a mentor at a middle
school, and I was walking down

378
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,920
the hallway, you know, from the
time I checked in to like, the

379
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,720
library where I was going to
meet the students.

380
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,840
And of course, the school walls
were plastered with like, those

381
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,040
little chirotypical posters
bully people.

382
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,240
And I was walking down the
hallway.

383
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,400
I could hear the kid, you know,
just like being mean to each

384
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,600
other, taunting and teaching.
I'm like, there's such a gap

385
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,840
right now between that
inspirational poster on the wall

386
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,800
and what's unfolding right now
in a period break as the kids

387
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,880
are just, you know, surging down
this hallway to make it to their

388
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,000
next clash.
And part of me is like,

389
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,240
motivational posters only go so
far.

390
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,600
And it's it's not until like
this kind of content is

391
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,600
mainstream and embedded into
core curriculum that I think

392
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,880
meaningful change can actually
be seen because a poster low,

393
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,000
low cut.
What do you see as the biggest

394
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,320
barrier that men face in
developing emotional illiteracy?

395
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,400
No, they they have emotional
illiteracy.

396
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,280
What do you see is a barrier
developing emotional literacy

397
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,760
and what can be done to overcome
that?

398
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,040
If we look at the barriers on,
on some level, it's it's it's

399
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:48,600
stomach and, and multifaceted
for sure.

400
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,520
And if we start to take it layer
by layer, it it's first allowing

401
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,080
oneself to be more comfortable
with the range of emotions and,

402
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,840
you know, challenging for the
limiting script and outdated

403
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,280
narratives that say, you know,
men should only do these kinds

404
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,400
of things and just broaden it
because it's a human experience.

405
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,520
And kind of what makes me laugh
is the idea that when you look

406
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,000
at emojis on a keyboard, there
are many emojis that express

407
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,720
different feelings.
And I think that's part of the

408
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,880
human experience.
Men should totally allow

409
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,200
themselves to experience the
more vulnerable rages of those

410
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,080
emotions without change, without
inner criticism and and

411
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,200
supporting each other with with
kindness.

412
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,040
Because I think a lot of times
here is reinforced ideas around

413
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,360
what's allowed and what's even
allowed, though, you know, I

414
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:47,120
think of imagery like, you know,
let's imagine kids are playing

415
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:52,520
baseball and one kid flies and
he's right for himself and his

416
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,600
peers were gone to see his
reaction.

417
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,440
And if he even tries to like
silence, a little silent tear or

418
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,440
they might be on looking once
it's just being unfolding and

419
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,960
just kind of ridicule him.
Like, did you see that?

420
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,360
I think he's crying.
And then cue the collected

421
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,080
laughter.
So we have the shame, the blame,

422
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,360
the ridiculing.
It's kind of like, no, no, no,

423
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:16,400
no.
You know, we we need to

424
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,120
acknowledge that sometimes
painful things are and it's OK

425
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:24,000
to express emotion.
And so I see it as giving

426
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,240
permission to oneself, but also
giving other other men an

427
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,000
opportunity to be vulnerable and
not have it ridicilized or

428
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,440
ridiculed because sometimes
those scripts are still

429
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,640
unfolding.
So making it days internally,

430
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,440
but also one-on-one and also
eventually in another larger

431
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,840
spaces because we need to model
it, but also give space for

432
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,760
other people to be authentic
with their human experience.

433
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,360
Golfer.
Tell me about the availability

434
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,320
awards.
Oh yeah, this, this is the fun

435
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,080
project that I recently wrapped
up, and it's basically inspired

436
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,160
by dating experiences that are
so common inside of the context

437
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,040
of dating apps.
So whether it's Bumble or Tinder

438
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,800
or any other the major dating
apps, all too often when people

439
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,200
enter these realms, they're
bound to find people who are not

440
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,240
relationship ready.
And we put them under the

441
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,920
category of emotionally
unavailable.

442
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,600
So when someone is emotionally
unavailable, they ultimately are

443
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,320
lacking emotional literacy,
emotional intelligence and

444
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,080
relational intelligence.
So they're unable to sustain a

445
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,240
healthy relationship.
And what this book does is it

446
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,000
basically explains the many
varieties of emotional

447
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,760
unavailability and then what
makes them attractive, what

448
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,320
makes them hurtful and start to
pivot towards not using these

449
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,160
types of individuals.
Because as you can imagine, you

450
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,560
know, when people pick their own
partner, it seems frailing too,

451
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,840
heartbreak, but also turn lost
wish the wrong person.

452
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,960
And sometimes it's just a matter
of strengthening art and

453
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:16,080
recognition and certain values.
So that's being used very Army

454
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,720
type.
Just he'll get to move forward

455
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,120
into one's heart.
And Chad and just it are like a

456
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,240
framework for understanding
who's relationship writing,

457
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,720
who's not.
Alexandra, what's one thing that

458
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,600
you wish more men knew?
I think I want more men to know

459
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,560
that they will be loved and
cherished and accepted for their

460
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:49,320
full health by women who
appreciate them for their whole

461
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,240
humanity.
I I think sometimes so much of

462
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,080
self management and self
preservation, I don't steal

463
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,320
armor and layer and not showing
vulnerability leads to gap and

464
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,320
understanding and compassion.
Sometimes just having that safe

465
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,800
space inside of a relationship
can just feel hard and be so

466
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:18,040
restored, and it's just a matter
of having those healthy

467
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,400
relationships where feeling and
really charged louder because

468
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,720
it's a psychologically safe
environment.

469
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,080
Being emotionally unavailable is
normally something get gets

470
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,640
assigned to men.
Do you see women in that same

471
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,080
position?
Absolutely.

472
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,720
You know, one of the things that
that always comes to mind to me

473
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,640
is that our partner is a mirror
of ourselves.

474
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,080
When we look at a mirror, it, it
echoes back exactly what's in

475
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,800
its reflection, right.
So when a woman picks an emotion

476
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,440
unavailable partner, it reflects
on her own emotional unavailable

477
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,680
too.
So all too often when people

478
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,840
share their stories, they're
blaming, right?

479
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,680
They're pointing the figure out
the other person.

480
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,520
They did this, they did that.
And if you had seen how they

481
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,640
treated me there.
And so they're crafting this

482
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,400
narrative that's very one sided,
right?

483
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,800
But if we look out the other
side of the coin, when someone

484
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,880
over functions, overworks, over
gives, it's coming from an

485
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,480
insecurity, a wound of fear and
insecure parchment style.

486
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,440
So in their own way they are
unlike equal and opposites or

487
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,240
yin Yang like they're both
emotionally unavailable, but

488
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,040
it's just playing out in
different ways.

489
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,960
One might one partner might be
pulling away and the other one

490
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,440
is chasing.
And so they're both insecure,

491
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,080
but the outward presentation of
their emotional unavailability

492
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,800
is presenting differently.
But at the core, they're both

493
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,240
emotionally unavailable.
So Alexandra, where can people

494
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,200
go to learn more about your work
and connect with you?

495
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,120
But you'd like to learn more
about my upcoming work, you're

496
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,080
welcome to follow me on YouTube.
My handle is my secure era.

497
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,480
I have a collection of our
interactive sessions that are

498
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,760
coming up where I will be using
Sigma and Miro and on dissect

499
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,480
different topics in the world of
people still on charges that

500
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,040
will be like short form videos,
maybe 5 to 15 minutes.

501
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,920
So you're curious to learn more
about emotional literacy,

502
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,080
emotional intelligence,
relational intelligence.

503
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,800
We'll have a wonderful theories
there to chill into to learn

504
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,240
more about these topics are
free.

505
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,480
Awesome.
Well, thanks for all the work

506
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,480
that you're doing and exploring
yourself, sharing all that and

507
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,840
therefore helping everyone to
explore and strengthen their

508
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,760
emotional health.
And yeah, it's it's it's so true

509
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,840
in so many areas that when each
of us are willing to do that

510
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,440
inner work, it just radiates out
and changes our relationship,

511
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,840
then changes our community, and
eventually we can really change

512
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,160
the world.
Absolutely.

513
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,600
But being that is perfectly sad.
So many of us can reach the

514
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,320
single point of change that has
cascading benefits in multiple

515
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,680
areas of life and in multiple
relationships.

516
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000
And when we collectively work
together, we can make the world

517
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,440
a better place.
And it just parts are changing

518
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,840
one part at a time.
Thanks for listening to Real Men

519
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,200
Feel Big thank you to my guest,
Alexandra Velez.

520
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,920
You can learn more about her
work at my secureera.com.

521
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,640
If you enjoyed today's
conversation, please subscribe,

522
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,000
leave a review, share this
episode with someone who could

523
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,920
use it, and remember, you don't
have to figure out life alone.

524
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,600
Join me and other men exploring
authenticity, growth, and

525
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,640
connection in the authentic AF
community at

526
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,200
realmenfeel.org/group.
And until next time, be good to

527
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:43,640
yourself.